Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Loudenboomer: 1962 1 KW linear amplifier also known as a Hallicrafters HT-45, not to be confused with the Eargesplitten Loudenboomer .22 cal cartridge. In the mid 60's, the MARS station at Bien Hoa AB Vietnam [AI8AB] put up a 5el 3 frequency quad at 27 m for non-amateur MARS frequencies. It resembled a dummy load in the transmit efficiency department. A small tornado came through one afternoon, removed the roof of a nearby RVN chow hall, and scrambled the quad which, post tornado, was a vertical CobWebb with some extra spreaders hanging loosely. And, it began working very well. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 1/4/2021 5:30 AM, CUTTER DAVID via Elecraft wrote: There was indeed a Loudenboomer made by a Brit back in the 60s / 70s and I think it was G3TPW Steve Webb who moved on to make the Cobwebb antenna. David G3UNA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
There was indeed a Loudenboomer made by a Brit back in the 60s / 70s and I think it was G3TPW Steve Webb who moved on to make the Cobwebb antenna. David G3UNA > On 04 January 2021 at 13:14 Louandzip via Elecraft > wrote: > > > "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." ? > On Sunday, January 3, 2021, 8:13:49 PM MST, Hank via Elecraft > wrote: > > Is there a Loudenboomer III??? I must go buy it - I only have a > Loundenboomer II! > > > On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > > > > Maxwell assured us that, if you get RF current to flow in a conductor that > > isn't buried deeply, it will radiate. The the direction(s) of that > > radiation may not be where you wish, but it will radiate. This weakend, I > > made 127 QSO's in the ARRL RTTY Round-Up on 15, 20, 40, and 80 with 100W > > [K3] to a HOA-stealthy WOOF antenna [Wire On Organic Fence: 41 m, end-fed, > > 1.8 m AGL]. > > > > I have noticed since the days when you built your TX from parts scarfed > > from old TV sets: > > > > 1. Newer hams seem to believe that there is one "perfect" way to build an > > antenna or use your radios and anything else will fail; > > > > 2. Newer hams, and some of the older ones, like to connect every possible > > accessory and every possible computer/software product to their radios; > > > > 3. And when that doesn't work, the first question to the email list > > members is, "My Loudenboomer III won't key. Any ideas what's wrong?" > > Somehow, the art of isolating the pieces, such as, "disconnect the > > keyer/computer/software and plug in a hand key -- or short the key line -- > > does it key now?" has been lost in a sea of technology no one understands. > > > > If the best of forecasts for Cycle 25 materialize, you will be able to > > repeat the late 50's/early 60's and work the world on 10 m 24/7 with 15 W > > to the window screen. Happy New Year to all, activate safely. > > > > 73, > > > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > > Sparks NV DM09dn > > Washoe County > > > >> On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote: > >> I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the > >> opinion of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read > >> the antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have > >> to delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all > >> remember that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto > >> Landell de Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had > >> each other. > >> > >> Joe Shuman, NZ8P > >> > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to d.cut...@ntlworld.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." ? On Sunday, January 3, 2021, 8:13:49 PM MST, Hank via Elecraft wrote: Is there a Loudenboomer III??? I must go buy it - I only have a Loundenboomer II! > On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > > Maxwell assured us that, if you get RF current to flow in a conductor that > isn't buried deeply, it will radiate. The the direction(s) of that radiation > may not be where you wish, but it will radiate. This weakend, I made 127 > QSO's in the ARRL RTTY Round-Up on 15, 20, 40, and 80 with 100W [K3] to a > HOA-stealthy WOOF antenna [Wire On Organic Fence: 41 m, end-fed, 1.8 m AGL]. > > I have noticed since the days when you built your TX from parts scarfed from > old TV sets: > > 1. Newer hams seem to believe that there is one "perfect" way to build an > antenna or use your radios and anything else will fail; > > 2. Newer hams, and some of the older ones, like to connect every possible > accessory and every possible computer/software product to their radios; > > 3. And when that doesn't work, the first question to the email list members > is, "My Loudenboomer III won't key. Any ideas what's wrong?" Somehow, the > art of isolating the pieces, such as, "disconnect the keyer/computer/software > and plug in a hand key -- or short the key line -- does it key now?" has been > lost in a sea of technology no one understands. > > If the best of forecasts for Cycle 25 materialize, you will be able to repeat > the late 50's/early 60's and work the world on 10 m 24/7 with 15 W to the > window screen. Happy New Year to all, activate safely. > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > >> On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote: >> I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the opinion >> of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read the >> antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have to >> delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all remember >> that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto Landell de >> Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had each other. >> >> Joe Shuman, NZ8P >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to louand...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Is there a Loudenboomer III??? I must go buy it - I only have a Loundenboomer II! > On Jan 3, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: > > Maxwell assured us that, if you get RF current to flow in a conductor that > isn't buried deeply, it will radiate. The the direction(s) of that radiation > may not be where you wish, but it will radiate. This weakend, I made 127 > QSO's in the ARRL RTTY Round-Up on 15, 20, 40, and 80 with 100W [K3] to a > HOA-stealthy WOOF antenna [Wire On Organic Fence: 41 m, end-fed, 1.8 m AGL]. > > I have noticed since the days when you built your TX from parts scarfed from > old TV sets: > > 1. Newer hams seem to believe that there is one "perfect" way to build an > antenna or use your radios and anything else will fail; > > 2. Newer hams, and some of the older ones, like to connect every possible > accessory and every possible computer/software product to their radios; > > 3. And when that doesn't work, the first question to the email list members > is, "My Loudenboomer III won't key. Any ideas what's wrong?" Somehow, the > art of isolating the pieces, such as, "disconnect the keyer/computer/software > and plug in a hand key -- or short the key line -- does it key now?" has been > lost in a sea of technology no one understands. > > If the best of forecasts for Cycle 25 materialize, you will be able to repeat > the late 50's/early 60's and work the world on 10 m 24/7 with 15 W to the > window screen. Happy New Year to all, activate safely. > > 73, > > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW > Sparks NV DM09dn > Washoe County > >> On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote: >> I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the opinion >> of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read the >> antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have to >> delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all remember >> that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto Landell de >> Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had each other. >> >> Joe Shuman, NZ8P >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to h...@optilink.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Maxwell assured us that, if you get RF current to flow in a conductor that isn't buried deeply, it will radiate. The the direction(s) of that radiation may not be where you wish, but it will radiate. This weakend, I made 127 QSO's in the ARRL RTTY Round-Up on 15, 20, 40, and 80 with 100W [K3] to a HOA-stealthy WOOF antenna [Wire On Organic Fence: 41 m, end-fed, 1.8 m AGL]. I have noticed since the days when you built your TX from parts scarfed from old TV sets: 1. Newer hams seem to believe that there is one "perfect" way to build an antenna or use your radios and anything else will fail; 2. Newer hams, and some of the older ones, like to connect every possible accessory and every possible computer/software product to their radios; 3. And when that doesn't work, the first question to the email list members is, "My Loudenboomer III won't key. Any ideas what's wrong?" Somehow, the art of isolating the pieces, such as, "disconnect the keyer/computer/software and plug in a hand key -- or short the key line -- does it key now?" has been lost in a sea of technology no one understands. If the best of forecasts for Cycle 25 materialize, you will be able to repeat the late 50's/early 60's and work the world on 10 m 24/7 with 15 W to the window screen. Happy New Year to all, activate safely. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 1/3/2021 2:39 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote: I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the opinion of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read the antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have to delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all remember that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto Landell de Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had each other. Joe Shuman, NZ8P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
There is absolutely nothing wrong in experimenting with antennas just for the fun of it. I've done it and enjoyed it, but I didn't learn much from it. The fault comes in pretending that experimenting without understanding is better than, or at least equivalent to, actually spending the effort to understand what you're doing. Trying something ... anything ... is fun, but too many hams seem to want to use it to justify ignorance. All of those people you mention may not have had the Antenna Book, but they did have the writings of each other and I guarantee that they used them ... which is exactly what the Antenna Book is since it was written by other hams who took the trouble to understand what they were doing so that you at least had the opportunity to do so as well. Nobody says that you have to take advantage of that, but it does mean that you're just choosing the fun of playing with stuff you don't understand very well ... like somebody who just mixes different chemicals to see what happens. And yes, I've done that as well. Dave AB7E On 1/3/2021 3:39 PM, Joseph Shuman via Elecraft wrote: I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the opinion of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read the antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have to delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all remember that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto Landell de Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had each other. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
As for me... I am an oddball tinkerer. I brew beer, make guitars, string beads, raise goats and make leather bound books, as well as fire up my radio from time to time. I was prepared to get my novice license in the early 1970’s. My parents said no. It was always in the back of my mind. I licensed a couple of years ago, got a KX2 and then started experimenting with anything that could be called an antenna, that is to say anything that conducts a current (from a lawn chair, to an umbrella, to hundreds of feet of abandon in-place power lines). Damn the theory, full speed ahead; all I needed was a match from the magical auto tuner. As a hobby, this one allows for tremendous diversity in what your interest in radio is with the same goal: tossing out a CQ and seeing who you get. Whether you build from scratch, buy off the shelf, rag chew, CQ or go digital, the goal is the same. Make a contact, meet someone you never have before, and enjoy it while you can. Who cares if one operator is an electronics dolt while another is a PhD EE? It is about contact, and Human contact in any form is precious. I simply like the challenge of making contacts with antennas, in the opinion of the more learned, “that won’t work.” I have been told to “Read the antenna book” because my experiments are “illogical.” I guess I have to delete the contact I made using a chicken wire antenna? Let’s all remember that Maxwell, Marconi, Hertz, Popov, Bose, Hughes and Fr. Roberto Landell de Moura did not have the internet or the Antenna Book. They had each other. Just my foul smelling overly verbose opinion on the matter. Keeping Watch- shu Joe Shuman, NZ8P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I have only two data points supporting this hypothesis -- me, and my grandson. So this is just FWIW: The (or at least much of the) allure of amateur radio lies in doing something yourself and seeing it actually work. >From DIY circuit design and construction to pruning the SWR out of a Vee in a tree to a strategy that nets a clean sweep in the SS, that satisfaction is universal, though possibly the more challenging the better. As a communications medium per se, radio is passe'. Let's not waste the energy fighting that. As a source of "Holy S, it works!", amateur radio has the potential to be as challenging and satisfying as any other. Maybe that's an attractant to sell. Ted, KN1CBR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
n competitive aspects > > to the no infrastructure. I think all of these things could appeal to > > younger people if presented right. > > > > On the other hand, I was a 14-year-old ham in 1987, and I had exactly > zero > > success in getting much of anyone interested in this greatest of all > > hobbies, so that could mean I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about. > > > > > > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA > > Email: bu...@brannan.name > > Mobile: (814) 431-0962 > > > > > > > > > On Jan 3, 2021, at 10:21 AM, wrote: > > > > > > This is funny: > > > > > > " I expect a fire war when I say this and that is, most extra class > hams > > > licensed with in the last 15 years are dumber than a bag of hammers > when > > it > > > comes to radio theory, operation, station building, safe practices or > > > anything as simple as soldering or crimping on a PL259." > > > > > > I'm one of those Hams that is dumber than a hammer. I got my Novice > > license > > > in 1974 and finally got around to upgrading to Extra in the last 15 > year. > > > Actually since CW is my favorite mode of operation I was ambivalent > about > > > upgrading. Only till I realized Extras don't need to memorize that > band > > > edges did I upgrade. > > > > > > No, I don't waste time on games. I spent the last forty years > building a > > > career. I ran an R team for 5, was CTO of multiple companies, I do > > both > > > electronic and software engineering, oh did I mention I have 14 > > patents? I > > > can solder the smallest surface mount devices by hand. I just finished > > > building an observatory in my back yard. I built a 1965 replica > Cobra, a > > > GIANT analog synth, and I restore vintage computers. (Real ones > > 8008/8080 > > > era...) > > > > > > No, please just send me the golden hammer, I admit, I'm the dumbest of > > all > > > dummies and proud of it. > > > > > > 73 > > > > > > len > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > > > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Morgan Bailey > > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:32 PM > > > To: Tom Azlin W7SUA ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide > > > > > > Chronological divide, Heh. I am 67 years old, for 7 years I played WoW, > > for > > > 6 years I played Everquest and for 5 years I have played Guild Wars 2. > I > > > enjoyed each of these games. I moved on to the more progressive game > but > > > still enjoy playing them from time to time. I only play GW2 at this > time. > > > Making the games set up and work with all peripherals is no harder than > > > setting up FT8. Setting up RTTY with 2 or 3 decoders and getting > > everything > > > to work...much harder. I am finding that many people in their 40s and > 50s > > > are getting into Amateur Radio. Some want the challenge of making stuff > > > work, some want the antenna building experience, some want kit building > > but > > > most seem to be from a subset of the population that are what one might > > call > > > internet geeks. These guys do great in the transition to ham radio. > > > Many gamers spend upwards to 2k$ on a video card only for their game > box. > > > So, $$$ is generally not a limiting option for this group. When they > get > > > hooked, they are hooked hard. In NCJ a few years ago, there was an > > article > > > about contesting and video games. The parallels between the 2 of being > > "in > > > the zone" were made. The same psychological high is involved but > > actually, > > > it is more involved and dynamic than an online game. > > > > > > Pile ups, gotta love them, any mode you can get them, cw or ssb will > > provide > > > that psychological high that melts the time away and keeps you on your > > toes. > > > One can get so involved that you have to force yourself to take a deep > > > breath and relax the shoulders and refocus on your posture so you can > > > continue to run. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 hours later, you have to pee, get a > > drink, > > > grab a snack and get at it again. It is addicting. I am glad that cw > > > contests are not every weekend because my life
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Well I have been an extra class since 1963. I too, have patents and am a retired EE design engineer. I run three Elecraft rigs and two computers. But I admit that I feel dumber than a hammer when looking at all the software options and menu items. I haven't even considered a Flex because of my limited computer skills. Btw, at age 79, I can still build with SMDs. It's a matter of being blessed with good enough eyesight and steady hands. I got over looking down on others without my level of expertise when I realized there were just as many who have skills I don't have. If amateur radio is to survive, we need to be teammates, not adversaries. End of soapbox session. 73, Dave, K4TO On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 11:01 AM Buddy Brannan wrote: > I am, sadly, one of those dumber than a hammer types. Never learned to > solder anything. Theory was not my strength, and if you sat me in front of > an Extra test, chances are better than even that I’d fail it. I mean a lot > better than even. Like…OK, I’d fail it for sure. But I passed the 20 wpm > three times, twice with 100% perfect copy for all five minutes. This skill, > while handy in a pinch, doesn’t confer much more than bragging rights, > whereas actually being good at the technical side would actually be dead > useful. As opposed to, well, making me dead by some crazy accident. > > Still, and getting back to the age divide, I’d agree that if we’re > focusing on the ability to talk to people anywhere in the world, we’re > focusing on the wrong thing. Radio is magic? Yeah, closer, because it is, > and I think we all of us who do this thing appreciate that. But I think the > ARRL had the right idea when it started an initiative to court the > so-called maker community, because there’s a lot of common ground there, > harkening back to old traditions of home brewing (an aspect of the hobby on > which I Feel I’ve sadly missed). Also, communication without infrastructure > has a certain appeal, and I don’t think it gets enough press. Sure, we’ll > use it if it’s there. But we don’t have to, and this is an aspect that > definitely deserves more airplay than it gets. Add in competitive aspects > to the no infrastructure. I think all of these things could appeal to > younger people if presented right. > > On the other hand, I was a 14-year-old ham in 1987, and I had exactly zero > success in getting much of anyone interested in this greatest of all > hobbies, so that could mean I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about. > > > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA > Email: bu...@brannan.name > Mobile: (814) 431-0962 > > > > > On Jan 3, 2021, at 10:21 AM, wrote: > > > > This is funny: > > > > " I expect a fire war when I say this and that is, most extra class hams > > licensed with in the last 15 years are dumber than a bag of hammers when > it > > comes to radio theory, operation, station building, safe practices or > > anything as simple as soldering or crimping on a PL259." > > > > I'm one of those Hams that is dumber than a hammer. I got my Novice > license > > in 1974 and finally got around to upgrading to Extra in the last 15 year. > > Actually since CW is my favorite mode of operation I was ambivalent about > > upgrading. Only till I realized Extras don't need to memorize that band > > edges did I upgrade. > > > > No, I don't waste time on games. I spent the last forty years building a > > career. I ran an R team for 5, was CTO of multiple companies, I do > both > > electronic and software engineering, oh did I mention I have 14 > patents? I > > can solder the smallest surface mount devices by hand. I just finished > > building an observatory in my back yard. I built a 1965 replica Cobra, a > > GIANT analog synth, and I restore vintage computers. (Real ones > 8008/8080 > > era...) > > > > No, please just send me the golden hammer, I admit, I'm the dumbest of > all > > dummies and proud of it. > > > > 73 > > > > len > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Morgan Bailey > > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:32 PM > > To: Tom Azlin W7SUA ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide > > > > Chronological divide, Heh. I am 67 years old, for 7 years I played WoW, > for > > 6 years I played Everquest and for 5 years I have played Guild Wars 2. I > > enjoyed each of these games. I moved on to the more progressive game but > > still enjoy playing them from time to time. I only play GW2 at this time. > > Making
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I am, sadly, one of those dumber than a hammer types. Never learned to solder anything. Theory was not my strength, and if you sat me in front of an Extra test, chances are better than even that I’d fail it. I mean a lot better than even. Like…OK, I’d fail it for sure. But I passed the 20 wpm three times, twice with 100% perfect copy for all five minutes. This skill, while handy in a pinch, doesn’t confer much more than bragging rights, whereas actually being good at the technical side would actually be dead useful. As opposed to, well, making me dead by some crazy accident. Still, and getting back to the age divide, I’d agree that if we’re focusing on the ability to talk to people anywhere in the world, we’re focusing on the wrong thing. Radio is magic? Yeah, closer, because it is, and I think we all of us who do this thing appreciate that. But I think the ARRL had the right idea when it started an initiative to court the so-called maker community, because there’s a lot of common ground there, harkening back to old traditions of home brewing (an aspect of the hobby on which I Feel I’ve sadly missed). Also, communication without infrastructure has a certain appeal, and I don’t think it gets enough press. Sure, we’ll use it if it’s there. But we don’t have to, and this is an aspect that definitely deserves more airplay than it gets. Add in competitive aspects to the no infrastructure. I think all of these things could appeal to younger people if presented right. On the other hand, I was a 14-year-old ham in 1987, and I had exactly zero success in getting much of anyone interested in this greatest of all hobbies, so that could mean I don’t have any idea what I’m talking about. Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Email: bu...@brannan.name Mobile: (814) 431-0962 > On Jan 3, 2021, at 10:21 AM, wrote: > > This is funny: > > " I expect a fire war when I say this and that is, most extra class hams > licensed with in the last 15 years are dumber than a bag of hammers when it > comes to radio theory, operation, station building, safe practices or > anything as simple as soldering or crimping on a PL259." > > I'm one of those Hams that is dumber than a hammer. I got my Novice license > in 1974 and finally got around to upgrading to Extra in the last 15 year. > Actually since CW is my favorite mode of operation I was ambivalent about > upgrading. Only till I realized Extras don't need to memorize that band > edges did I upgrade. > > No, I don't waste time on games. I spent the last forty years building a > career. I ran an R team for 5, was CTO of multiple companies, I do both > electronic and software engineering, oh did I mention I have 14 patents? I > can solder the smallest surface mount devices by hand. I just finished > building an observatory in my back yard. I built a 1965 replica Cobra, a > GIANT analog synth, and I restore vintage computers. (Real ones 8008/8080 > era...) > > No, please just send me the golden hammer, I admit, I'm the dumbest of all > dummies and proud of it. > > 73 > > len > > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Morgan Bailey > Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:32 PM > To: Tom Azlin W7SUA ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide > > Chronological divide, Heh. I am 67 years old, for 7 years I played WoW, for > 6 years I played Everquest and for 5 years I have played Guild Wars 2. I > enjoyed each of these games. I moved on to the more progressive game but > still enjoy playing them from time to time. I only play GW2 at this time. > Making the games set up and work with all peripherals is no harder than > setting up FT8. Setting up RTTY with 2 or 3 decoders and getting everything > to work...much harder. I am finding that many people in their 40s and 50s > are getting into Amateur Radio. Some want the challenge of making stuff > work, some want the antenna building experience, some want kit building but > most seem to be from a subset of the population that are what one might call > internet geeks. These guys do great in the transition to ham radio. > Many gamers spend upwards to 2k$ on a video card only for their game box. > So, $$$ is generally not a limiting option for this group. When they get > hooked, they are hooked hard. In NCJ a few years ago, there was an article > about contesting and video games. The parallels between the 2 of being "in > the zone" were made. The same psychological high is involved but actually, > it is more involved and dynamic than an online game. > > Pile ups, gotta love them, any mode you can get them, cw or ssb will provide > that psychological high that melts the time a
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
This is funny: " I expect a fire war when I say this and that is, most extra class hams licensed with in the last 15 years are dumber than a bag of hammers when it comes to radio theory, operation, station building, safe practices or anything as simple as soldering or crimping on a PL259." I'm one of those Hams that is dumber than a hammer. I got my Novice license in 1974 and finally got around to upgrading to Extra in the last 15 year. Actually since CW is my favorite mode of operation I was ambivalent about upgrading. Only till I realized Extras don't need to memorize that band edges did I upgrade. No, I don't waste time on games. I spent the last forty years building a career. I ran an R team for 5, was CTO of multiple companies, I do both electronic and software engineering, oh did I mention I have 14 patents? I can solder the smallest surface mount devices by hand. I just finished building an observatory in my back yard. I built a 1965 replica Cobra, a GIANT analog synth, and I restore vintage computers. (Real ones 8008/8080 era...) No, please just send me the golden hammer, I admit, I'm the dumbest of all dummies and proud of it. 73 len -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Morgan Bailey Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2021 1:32 PM To: Tom Azlin W7SUA ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide Chronological divide, Heh. I am 67 years old, for 7 years I played WoW, for 6 years I played Everquest and for 5 years I have played Guild Wars 2. I enjoyed each of these games. I moved on to the more progressive game but still enjoy playing them from time to time. I only play GW2 at this time. Making the games set up and work with all peripherals is no harder than setting up FT8. Setting up RTTY with 2 or 3 decoders and getting everything to work...much harder. I am finding that many people in their 40s and 50s are getting into Amateur Radio. Some want the challenge of making stuff work, some want the antenna building experience, some want kit building but most seem to be from a subset of the population that are what one might call internet geeks. These guys do great in the transition to ham radio. Many gamers spend upwards to 2k$ on a video card only for their game box. So, $$$ is generally not a limiting option for this group. When they get hooked, they are hooked hard. In NCJ a few years ago, there was an article about contesting and video games. The parallels between the 2 of being "in the zone" were made. The same psychological high is involved but actually, it is more involved and dynamic than an online game. Pile ups, gotta love them, any mode you can get them, cw or ssb will provide that psychological high that melts the time away and keeps you on your toes. One can get so involved that you have to force yourself to take a deep breath and relax the shoulders and refocus on your posture so you can continue to run. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 hours later, you have to pee, get a drink, grab a snack and get at it again. It is addicting. I am glad that cw contests are not every weekend because my life would end. LOL. SERIOUS online gaming requires raiding to really advance in MMORPG games. Serious ranking for WRTC takes the same. It takes tech, engineering, $$$ and commitment to advance in the world of contesting. What reward? Well, if you like to compete then this is your mojo. If you like to collect wallpaper for working all places, counties, countries, etc it is there. If you want to be recognised in a magazine for contest performance that is here. In the ham radio world there are no cash prizes. Not so in the gaming world, there really are professional gamers. Heh for that matter, I used to farm gold in games and sell it for $$$. I did this while waiting to Raid. In games you have dps meters and one always tried to be on the top of the pile by being best in your class for whatever your function was. N1MM has a rate meter and mults window based on band population and feedback and spotting networks. How does one get these gamers to transition to Amateur Radio? Good question. When I state that my hobby is Ham Radio, I get, "I did not think people did that now. Or Really, what is that? Why would you do that?" the conclusion that I get from these comments is: there is not enough exposure of the population to Amateur Radio. Plain and simple people just don't hear about it or see it in action. There are no public special events. There are not enough elmers to encourage people. There are no longer any towers being put up because of HOA and zoning ordinance rules. Towers used to be focal points for people to talk about. Why does he have a tower? Once that question was asked then a tour of the shack generally was involved and maybe 1 in 10 or 20 became interested to progress into the hobby. Rarely do you see a tower any more. Less exposure, l
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
uipment can't be justified as > > utilitarian communication because it's expensive and inefficient. If > > the point is to contact your friends any time you want to, they are > > already doing that with a half a dozen reliable instant technologies > > all accessible from the same smartphone. I don't get where ham radio > > comes in to solve a problem they have already solved. Certainly not > > with a system that requires waiting 15 minutes for a satellite to get > > in position, and a Cupertino Robot to set up the call. > > > > I don't have the answer to attracting young people to a rapidly > > changing hobby in an even more rapidly changing world. The aspects of > > the hobby that attracted many of us was the sheer magic of radio > > itself. We weren't attracted to it because it let us contact our > > friends. Even then we had the telephone for that. We were attracted > > to the magic. Nine times out of ten, the communication part was "599 > > OM PSE QSL". > > > > I always heard how DX contacts would allow me to learn about other > > cultures. Actually, it did. After exchanging signal reports, I'd look > > up their city with an atlas or encyclopedia. But I learned zip on the > > air. A few California Kilowatts could hog a DX station, and chit chat > > for a few minutes, and did because they could. But the rest of us > > never got beyond the basic exchange and fought like hell for that. > > But it was magic so it didn't matter that it wasn't all that > > practical. > > > > The magic that attracted us is gone. Maybe there's new magic to be > > found, but it's different magic that most of us with 30-70 years in > > the hobby won't understand...and probably won't like. We are the > > wrong people to even be considering answers but anyone expecting to > > make a living from the hobby will have to find that new magic. It > > ain't instant communication and it ain't the ham radio equivalent of > > retro turntables. > > > > Eric KE6US > > > > ex-K1DCK, WA6YCF, WB2PVW > > > > > > On 12/14/2019 5:35 PM, andy.moorw...@moorcom.com wrote: > >> Question: Can amateur radio reach across the digital divide ? My > >> answer: It could Follow up Question: Do you think it will ? My > >> answer: No, not with current products and modes of use > >> > >> Why do I say this ? My 20 year old wants a turntable for Christmas. > >> Why on earth does he want one when he can download any song he > >> wants from his apple music account ? Answer: People of his > >> generation are moving beyond mere utility (listening to any song > >> anywhere anytime), they now want a musical experience, playing a > >> vinyl record - could be one of mine - with all the "atmosphere" > >> (hiss and scratches) to experience the music as it was "made". > >> > >> Could this experiential notion morph to a communications form? > >> Communications utility is being able to contact your friends at > >> anytime from anywhere, instantly, AKA the ubiquitous smartphone. > >> A communications experience could be one where the path / mode is > >> dynamic and not guaranteed to succeed (applies to VHF linked > >> repeater systems and HF). > >> > >> So why won't this happen ? We (amateur radio hobbyists and > >> industry) don't follow the usage paradigms they are used to and > >> frankly expect, built around their smartphones. > >> > >> The turn tables I'm looking at have RCA jacks to connect to an > >> amplifier but they also have Bluetooth to connect to your phone and > >> speakers, and of course "there's an App for that" on the > >> smartphone. > >> > >> People of this generation are not going to configure virtual COM > >> ports so their apps can access a radio. Neither will they work > >> through windows "wizard" configuration screens. Apple and the > >> other developers have made set up effortlessly work and offer > >> digital assistants to help you on your way. For example, below is > >> a conversation from a possible radio future. > >> > >> Jon, Ham Radio Operator: "Hey Siri what repeaters are near me and > >> can I link to Helen in Scotland ?" Siri: " Yes Jon there are > >> several repeaters nearby but the best way to contact Helen is via > >> Amsat, one will be over horizon in 15 minutes, shall I let Helen > >> know you want to contact her ? conditions are favorable" Jon: " Yes > >> Siri, let her k
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Hi Dave. My KX3 does really well. I suspect the KX2 had before would be the same. So I would posit that Elecraft has already filled that need in my shack. 73, tom w7sua On 12/15/2019 12:22 PM, David Gilbert wrote: By the way, and more directly related to Elecraft and Wayne's original post, not too long ago I proposed that Elecraft might consider building a smallish, portable, dedicated FT8/4 radio. Something with a screen and using the core engine of WSJT-X but with a much better user interface, a better logger, and the ability to actually say something (i.e., more than four message lines). It got almost zero traction here, and none from Elecraft, but I still think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Think of it as the HF equivalent of texting. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
over horizon in 15 minutes, shall I let Helen know you want to contact her ? conditions are favorable" Jon: " Yes Siri, let her know, I'll get the antenna ready" Sounds like science fiction ?- no this is technically feasible today - question is will some entity make the investments to make it happen ? Best Regards Andy K3CAQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 6:24 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, open-ended inquiry. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Wes is right, learning Morse by reading it is a disaster, and will hamper him for life. It took me decades to learn why I had so much trouble--I finally ran into another ham with the same problem. 73 Eric WD6DBM On Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 11:57 AM Wes wrote: > Please don't let him learn code by sight. I taught myself from the list > in my > Boy Scout Handbook (still have it) and I've never overcome doing it the > wrong > way. Passed a 20 WPM Extra exam but it was a struggle. Still my favorite > mode > though. > > Wes N7WS > > > On 12/26/2019 12:46 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: > > > > > > They also have a morse code chart printed on the radio and a button to > use for > > sending morse code. > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
A number of years ago [probably more than comes to my mind], someone published a table of sub-allocations for 75 meters derived from its nickname, "The Medical Band," not to be confused with "Medicine Band," an 80's band from Los Angeles playing "noise pop." All who know what noise pop sounds like please raise your hand. I don't remember the details but I know there was a sub-band reserved for diseases of the digestive tract with a sub-sub-band allocated for persistent heartburn and belching. And, yes, the art of the rag chew seems to be fading. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/26/2019 11:46 AM, Bill Frantz wrote: One of the young people in our club -- late 20s or early 30s is my guess -- said at a meeting that he liked contesting because in a contest, he does not have to listen to old men describing their medical problems. He is now a very up and coming contester. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Please don't let him learn code by sight. I taught myself from the list in my Boy Scout Handbook (still have it) and I've never overcome doing it the wrong way. Passed a 20 WPM Extra exam but it was a struggle. Still my favorite mode though. Wes N7WS On 12/26/2019 12:46 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: They also have a morse code chart printed on the radio and a button to use for sending morse code. My grandson's father (KI6NVN, but not a CW op) and I described morse code to him, and I sent some things, including his name, in code. We told him we didn't expect him to learn code quickly -- he's just in kindergarten -- but we would let him hear what it sounds like. Who knows where this moment will lead. 73 Bill AE6JV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
One of the young people in our club -- late 20s or early 30s is my guess -- said at a meeting that he liked contesting because in a contest, he does not have to listen to old men describing their medical problems. He is now a very up and coming contester. Moral of the story, try to rag chew about fun things when talking with strangers. My own observation is that conversation with strangers is an art form. It can easily be practiced in airport waiting rooms, but perhaps the best place is the club car on a long distance train. Skill in it is valuable for a radio rag chewer. (And I miss rag chewing with PSK31. FT8 just isn't the same.) Yesterday, my 6 year old grandson was lucky enough to receive a pair of walkie-talkies. They are AM units on 49.86 MHz. I was able to receive them with my KX3 and an AT1. He has been using them quite actively since he opened them. They also have a morse code chart printed on the radio and a button to use for sending morse code. My grandson's father (KI6NVN, but not a CW op) and I described morse code to him, and I sent some things, including his name, in code. We told him we didn't expect him to learn code quickly -- he's just in kindergarten -- but we would let him hear what it sounds like. Who knows where this moment will lead. 73 Bill AE6JV On 12/22/19 at 11:37 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote: Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return. --- Bill Frantz| Privacy is dead, get over| Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | it. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | - Scott McNealy | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
On 12/24/2019 1:30 PM, k8mn wrote: > During my embassy assignments in Guinea Bissaue, Sierra Leone and > Botswana, I participated in JOTA with Cincinnati Boy Scouts through > N8DL. I even had Botswana Scouts in my shack to speak with the > Cincinnati scouts.I don't ever recalling ARRL adverts in Boy's Life > but plenty of stories in the magazine mentioning amateur radio and > the League. Perhaps one of you will write one. Long time no hear, Dave! I got my interest in SWL radio and onto ham radio from a project in Boys Life in the late 1940s. It also helped that one of my father's buddies was a radio repair tech during WW-II but Harry was not a ham himself. Memories of NY's Cortlandt Street Radio Row, sadly the Ground Zero of 9/11 memory. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
On the subject of emergency support... My local club did a documentary a bunch of years ago about how the club turned to and helped with a local flood. It was in the archives when I was Archivist, so we got it converted into a video file and posted it on YouTube (with the club's permission). Since then, it has gotten a lot of views, and is one of the ways we help promote ham radio in our area. The beginning is a more modern introduction to the documentary: https://youtu.be/xYx8VNzYwRE But I also like to call attention to Clinton B. DeSoto's book "Calling CQ", a bunch of great stories about how ham radio helped during disasters and other emergencies. I helped curate it, with the permission of his estate. You can read it at the Internet Archive, here: https://archive.org/details/CallingCq-AdventureOfShort-waveRadioOperators Then there's the 1939 "Pete Smith Specialty" short film by MGM called "Radio Hams". It's very similar to the stories in Calling CQ, and I think some of the segments were based on them. It's a little hokey, but the subject matter is good. https://youtu.be/1BPcpQMbUPE 73, Gwen, NG3P On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 6:01 PM Clay Autery wrote: > EXCEPT in the case of those belonging to the group having the 6% > "Importance Factor". > They consider themselves too important to go along with ANYTHING, to > include rules, laws, et al. > > They require all statistics rounded to the nearest integer. > > ...except during leap years when the decimal portion of all figures is > merely truncated. > > Sorry it's Christmas Eve! > > MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of my Elecraft Friends and Family!!! > > __ > Clay Autery, KY5G > (318) 518-1389 > > On 24-Dec-19 09:44, W8JH wrote: > > > > >Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? > > > > I can vouch for the 83.295% and add that it is well known that > 89.774852% of > > people readily accept more specific statistics. > > > > > > > > > > - > > 73, > > > > Joe, W8JH > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ard...@gmail.com -- -+-+-+-+- Jenny Everywhere's Infinite: Quark Time http://quarktime.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
EXCEPT in the case of those belonging to the group having the 6% "Importance Factor". They consider themselves too important to go along with ANYTHING, to include rules, laws, et al. They require all statistics rounded to the nearest integer. ...except during leap years when the decimal portion of all figures is merely truncated. Sorry it's Christmas Eve! MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of my Elecraft Friends and Family!!! __ Clay Autery, KY5G (318) 518-1389 On 24-Dec-19 09:44, W8JH wrote: >Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? I can vouch for the 83.295% and add that it is well known that 89.774852% of people readily accept more specific statistics. - 73, Joe, W8JH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Sub-Topic: survival in emergencies. I had a good "taste"of that a few years ago when the road from Anchorage to the Kenai Peninsula (pop 60K) (where I live) was blocked by avalanches for three weeks. All store products come by truck down that 180-mile road (there is only one road). Power ties were cut but we have local generation plants plus a hydro-plant, so outage was short. My biggest emergency was feeding my twelve sled dogs; stores ran out animal feed real quick. I use to live in a small town which lost power and phones during the avalanche. Convenience store's freezers thawed out and town had a serious supply problem. National Guard flew in a standby generator for them after two weeks. Town had one gas station so ran out. One ham lived there to get the word out. Having lived ten years off the grid in that town, I had good training on surviving. I had no electric, telephone, or water. Fifteen gallons of chainsaw fuel was my annual heating bill. Lights and stove by Coleman were propane (bout three months per bottle). Freezer was a military container out in a snow bank. So about eight years ago we bought a 6500w Honda generator to power the house. We have natural gas appliances and a well so only need electricity to be independent. I keep 20 gallons of fuel for the generator which will carry us about five days. Only have one house dog so that is easier. 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
During my embassy assignments in Guinea Bissaue, Sierra Leone and Botswana, I participated in JOTA with Cincinnati Boy Scouts through N8DL. I even had Botswana Scouts in my shack to speak with the Cincinnati scouts.I don't ever recalling ARRL adverts in Boy's Life but plenty of stories in the magazine mentioning amateur radio and the League. Perhaps one of you will write one.Dave K8MNSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Original message From: Walter Underwood Date: 12/24/19 13:08 (GMT-05:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide Interesting that nobody has yet mentioned Scouting and Jamboree on the Air (JOTA).Here is an article about a troop using amateur radio to coordinate dispersed camping groups and train for em-comm.https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/12/24/assistant-scoutmasters-help-scouts-get-trained-to-be-amateur-radio-operators/A troop in our area uses radios to allow groups of older youth to hike in separate groups. The fast group (always the youth, oddly) checks in every 15 minutes. If they can’t make contact, they stop until they can. With a license, they can switch from FRS/GMRS to amateur bands and hike with a bigger gap.JOTA is on the third full weekend of October every year. This year, we had over 9000 Scouts participate in the US. https://k2bsa.net/jota-usa-reports/From running a JOTA station a couple of times, I believe that prospective hams have just as wide a range of interests as active hams. We need a shotgun approach with each pellet (metaphor falling apart here) being someone who is excited about that activity. You don’t have to be an expert—I ran the “send your name in Morse Code” station and I’m not a CW operator—but you do need to represent how that activity could be exciting. Hands on, do everything hands on. No butts in seats for PowerPoint. Anybody ever say “I think I’ll go home and watch a nice PowerPoint preso tonight”? Here are some photos from our JOTA station this year. I’m the guy with the white hair. Oh, that doesn’t help. White hair and beard. Note the empty log sheet in front of the KX-line. HF was pretty dead. Must do digital modes next year.https://www.flickr.com/photos/walter_underwood/albums/72157711437854946 wunderK6WRUWalter UnderwoodRadio Scouting Chair, Pacific Skyline Councilhttp://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterunderwood/> On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:59 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:> > Eric, > > > If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" > Call Letter Award. See page 4: > > > https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message -> > From: "Eric J" > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide > > I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. > > Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. > > Eric KE6US > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net > > __> Elecraft mailing list> Home: http://mailm
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
On 12/24/2019 9:56 AM, Eric J wrote: > malwarebytes says, "Website blocked due to trojan." SO FAR, I have > never had that issue come up on the air. I suppose it would be > possible to pass along viruses via digital modes. Maybe THAT would > make new hams feel at home. What, never had a carrier thrown on you or on the QSO that you were part of? Not that I encourage it... 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Walter, Someone did comment (maybe a different thread/group) about reading Scouter and Boys Life at the barber shop and noted that ARRL has NO ads about radio in the mags. He or someone else noted that SWL mags have no ARRL ads, either... I think ARRL has "missed the boat"... ARRL has flyers for DIY, but no "push" to the youth to go along with it. Radio Merit Badge does at least provide a sample of ham radio... 73/YIS, Steve WB3LGC On 12/24/19 1:06 PM, Walter Underwood wrote: Interesting that nobody has yet mentioned Scouting and Jamboree on the Air (JOTA). Here is an article about a troop using amateur radio to coordinate dispersed camping groups and train for em-comm. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/12/24/assistant-scoutmasters-help-scouts-get-trained-to-be-amateur-radio-operators/ A troop in our area uses radios to allow groups of older youth to hike in separate groups. The fast group (always the youth, oddly) checks in every 15 minutes. If they can’t make contact, they stop until they can. With a license, they can switch from FRS/GMRS to amateur bands and hike with a bigger gap. JOTA is on the third full weekend of October every year. This year, we had over 9000 Scouts participate in the US. https://k2bsa.net/jota-usa-reports/ From running a JOTA station a couple of times, I believe that prospective hams have just as wide a range of interests as active hams. We need a shotgun approach with each pellet (metaphor falling apart here) being someone who is excited about that activity. You don’t have to be an expert—I ran the “send your name in Morse Code” station and I’m not a CW operator—but you do need to represent how that activity could be exciting. Hands on, do everything hands on. No butts in seats for PowerPoint. Anybody ever say “I think I’ll go home and watch a nice PowerPoint preso tonight”? Here are some photos from our JOTA station this year. I’m the guy with the white hair. Oh, that doesn’t help. White hair and beard. Note the empty log sheet in front of the KX-line. HF was pretty dead. Must do digital modes next year. https://www.flickr.com/photos/walter_underwood/albums/72157711437854946 wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood Radio Scouting Chair, Pacific Skyline Council http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterunderwood/ On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:59 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: Eric, If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" Call Letter Award. See page 4: https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Eric J" To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. Eric KE6US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org ___
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Interesting that nobody has yet mentioned Scouting and Jamboree on the Air (JOTA). Here is an article about a troop using amateur radio to coordinate dispersed camping groups and train for em-comm. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2019/12/24/assistant-scoutmasters-help-scouts-get-trained-to-be-amateur-radio-operators/ A troop in our area uses radios to allow groups of older youth to hike in separate groups. The fast group (always the youth, oddly) checks in every 15 minutes. If they can’t make contact, they stop until they can. With a license, they can switch from FRS/GMRS to amateur bands and hike with a bigger gap. JOTA is on the third full weekend of October every year. This year, we had over 9000 Scouts participate in the US. https://k2bsa.net/jota-usa-reports/ From running a JOTA station a couple of times, I believe that prospective hams have just as wide a range of interests as active hams. We need a shotgun approach with each pellet (metaphor falling apart here) being someone who is excited about that activity. You don’t have to be an expert—I ran the “send your name in Morse Code” station and I’m not a CW operator—but you do need to represent how that activity could be exciting. Hands on, do everything hands on. No butts in seats for PowerPoint. Anybody ever say “I think I’ll go home and watch a nice PowerPoint preso tonight”? Here are some photos from our JOTA station this year. I’m the guy with the white hair. Oh, that doesn’t help. White hair and beard. Note the empty log sheet in front of the KX-line. HF was pretty dead. Must do digital modes next year. https://www.flickr.com/photos/walter_underwood/albums/72157711437854946 wunder K6WRU Walter Underwood Radio Scouting Chair, Pacific Skyline Council http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog) https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterunderwood/ > On Dec 23, 2019, at 9:59 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: > > Eric, > > > If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" > Call Letter Award. See page 4: > > > https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf > > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Eric J" > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide > > I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that > very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, > enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many > aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk > away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It > does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and > hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit > chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham > radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. > > Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest > contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, > grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in > QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new > to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting > challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no > predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in > whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will > change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. > > Eric KE6US > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
malwarebytes says, "Website blocked due to trojan." SO FAR, I have never had that issue come up on the air. I suppose it would be possible to pass along viruses via digital modes. Maybe THAT would make new hams feel at home. Eric KE6US On 12/23/2019 7:59 PM, donov...@starpower.net<mailto:donov...@starpower.net> wrote: Eric, If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" Call Letter Award. See page 4: https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf 73 Frank W3LPL From: "Eric J" <mailto:eric_c...@hotmail.com> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. Eric KE6US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net<mailto:donov...@starpower.net> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x6x_6mDVlQ from the RSGB in UK. See all the YOUTH... ARRL has missed the "boat"... 73, steve WB3LGC On 12/23/19 6:24 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: Hmmm ... the 2018 Annual Report is on the ARRL site and it contains membership data thru the end of that year. At any rate, ARRL membership numbers [both total and % of ham population] have been declining for a number of years. >Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? The phrase and number were coined by one of my former bosses. In keeping with the phrase, I think he made the number up, I could always count on him to be scrupulously consistent. I would be extraordinarily surprised if anyone validated the number and given news from Washington DC these days, I think it may be low. [:=) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/23/2019 2:44 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available from the ARRL website. http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? 73, Kent K9ZTV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to sm.shearer...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
>Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? I can vouch for the 83.295% and add that it is well known that 89.774852% of people readily accept more specific statistics. - 73, Joe, W8JH K3s, KPA 500, KAT 500 and KX3 happy user. -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I believe this is a very important point. The modern civilization, at least in the developed world has become so dependent on the infrastructure. I'm pretty sure the younger generation has no appreciation for the extent of that and also how far reaching the impact of a breakdown of that infrastructure can be. Many of the not so young as well, I'm pretty sure. Back in '98 right after Christmas when a massive ice storm hit the north eastern US and Canada, my folks were without power for 14 days in January. Many unforseen dominoes fell. Large dairy farms had massive piles of dead cows they couldn't milk without electricity. Didn't see that one coming. They couldn't pump gas until the hand pumps came out and then they couldn't keep a ledger till the notebooks came out. Grocery stores lost a lot of food and kitchens too. No restaurants to turn to. All of this was denial until days went by and people began to realize they had to do certain things old school until the powe r came back. Hospitals have emergency generators but there were many small and not so small ways we fell on our faces. The cell phones had some power but the towers ran out of backup power in short order and didn't get re-fueled too quickly given the breakdown of everything else. No internet. The field day setups came out and traffic was passed. Of course there are many stories where amateur radio helped out but unless folks have some direct experience with this type of thing it is too easy to live in blissful ignorance of just how big the problem can be when critical infrastructure fails. I don't like to dwell in doom and gloom but I do think that more can be done to impress the importance of alternative technology for communication on the general public and to help people realize how much their lives can change and to what degree when the infrastructure fails. This can be an important point for keeping public perception of amateur radio as something current and import ant rather than just an antiquated relic of yesterday's generation. Joe ve3vxo From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Jim Campbell Sent: December 23, 2019 7:45 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide One point that I don't believe has been addressed is Emergency Communications. As a former ARES Emergency Coordinator, it seems to me that if Emergency Communications could be presented to young people in the right way it might interest some of them. It fills a need in the community. When other communications break down, hams can usually find a way to bridge the gap and provide the necessary communications. I can remember some exercises in Spartanburg County, SC where most of the people in the EOC were gathered around the ham radio position listening to live, relevant communications that their positions weren't getting. We were providing real-time communications because communications was our only job. Many others had their primary job and communications was something that they did when they had a spare minute. Jim Campbell - W4BQP K2/100 #2268 Former Spartanburg County, SC ARES EC Former Spartanburg County, SC RACES Radio Officer __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Eric, If you've grown tired of the usual awards, there's the "Alphabet Sandwich" Call Letter Award. See page 4: https://ftp.unpad.ac.id/orari/orari-diklat/pemula/organisasi/internasional/REG%203/JAPAN.pdf 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Eric J" To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 6:56:22 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. Eric KE6US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donov...@starpower.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
One point that I don't believe has been addressed is Emergency Communications. As a former ARES Emergency Coordinator, it seems to me that if Emergency Communications could be presented to young people in the right way it might interest some of them. It fills a need in the community. When other communications break down, hams can usually find a way to bridge the gap and provide the necessary communications. I can remember some exercises in Spartanburg County, SC where most of the people in the EOC were gathered around the ham radio position listening to live, relevant communications that their positions weren't getting. We were providing real-time communications because communications was our only job. Many others had their primary job and communications was something that they did when they had a spare minute. Jim Campbell - W4BQP K2/100 #2268 Former Spartanburg County, SC ARES EC Former Spartanburg County, SC RACES Radio Officer __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Hmmm ... the 2018 Annual Report is on the ARRL site and it contains membership data thru the end of that year. At any rate, ARRL membership numbers [both total and % of ham population] have been declining for a number of years. >Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? The phrase and number were coined by one of my former bosses. In keeping with the phrase, I think he made the number up, I could always count on him to be scrupulously consistent. I would be extraordinarily surprised if anyone validated the number and given news from Washington DC these days, I think it may be low. [:=) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/23/2019 2:44 PM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available from the ARRL website. http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? 73, Kent K9ZTV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
A few observations. We cannot think of the problem in passive terms. New hams will not come to us in great numbers. We need to go to them. We need hams to help teachers set up and run ham clubs in schools. (Collaborate) We need to appear at events like Maker Faire and present ham radio in a new light. Some of our local group started, "Not your dad's ham radio" at the Faire. The Dorthy Grant Elementary School in Fontana is also another good example. We could specifically interface with national youth-serving agencies and start or enlarge programs. How about a Sota/QRP activity that we develop with specific local groups? What not to do- We had a science day a few years ago and had someone set up a field day operation. Unfortunately, he set up the radios so that he faced away from visitors and did not have a separate person to explain what was going on. No one was interested. We have done ham radio demonstrations and information booths at dozens of fairs for years. Not a single new ham has made themselves known from those events. Obviously we were doing the wrong thing at the wrong place and probably in the wrong way. We have put lots of effort into outreach. We have done what seemed to be the right thing, without analyzing whether it really was the right thing. Most nonprofit groups spend huge amounts of money and time in this area with little to show for it. We need to reach out to groups and form partnerships that work. One organizational technique I am using in my area is to establish "daughter" clubs. These are smaller clubs or groups that we specifically help with equipment and expertise to help them realize their goals. There is a specific board member in our club that talks directly to a leader in the other club. It seems to work. Lastly, we must not sit on the sidelines deftly approving of what others are doing. We need to be part of it. If there is a program that is working, help keep it going. (My EdD. research was in this area.) Hope the latter helps, Dr. Doug Millar EdD K6JEY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
The 170,00 figure is dated January, 2016, and is the latest available from the ARRL website. http://www.arrl.org/arrl-fact-sheet Who validated your 83.295%, Fred? 73, Kent K9ZTV On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: It has been noted that 83.295% of people make up their own statistics. Thus encouraged ... The 2018 ARRL Annual Report says that 2018 ended with 156,899 members, and the somewhat-difficult-to-read little graph indicates that it fell for 11 of the 12 months. 2017 began at about 163,000 and fell to about 159,500 again in 11 of the 12 months [graph isn't well quantified]. It has been falling for a long time, and 170,000 is not an all-time high. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
My son teaches in China. We are in daily contact via WeChat. The medium is reliable and expedient, but in comparison to amateur radio the atmosphere is completely different. There is no sense of that realm of nature – the electromagnetic spectrum – and all of its interesting quirks, its foibles. Being on a ham band is an adventure in a magical space, a space that was completely unknown until the late nineteenth century. Once it was discovered, the exploration began. Most of us got in on it while it was filled with excitement and innovation. In addition to the technical aspect though, were the conversations with fellow hams. The comradery was like a fraternal order. We shared unique knowledge and experience. One aspect of that experience that I enjoy the most is the way conversation is enmeshed in and modulated by atmospheric and ionospheric effects. I can recall many roundtables, where the distinctness of the personalities was uniquely shaded by the transmission quality of their rigs, the radiation characteristics of their antennas, their physical locations relative to me, and of course, band conditions. This mysterious aspect of radio communications has been shed by the process of digitalization. The internet of course has its own sort of quirks. My son and I have to deal with China politics and VPN shutdowns. The equipment hums, clicks, freezes, and crashes. But these are experienced as technical problems. There is no sense of the force of nature, the invisible power of electromagnetic waves. Even in ham radio some of that sense is being lost. In our process of going digital, the immediacy of radio has been undermined by latency. Also new digital modes have been introduced that are beginning to approximate the impersonality of the internet. But to me those are not really a problem because the magic and mystery of radio is still alive. If we can find ways to communicate that message, to instill or revive that sense – the miracle of radio and the wonder of our fraternity – then it can be restored to its former glory. For nothing has really changed. Electromagnetic fields are all around us. It’s just that we have begun to take it for granted. So I suggest that while we work with the digital future, also to get grounded in the wonder that initially inspired us all: radio communication. Thanks, 73 Ed w2rf -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Fred Jensen Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 2:00 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide The CWops group has a program [CW of course] called "QTX" where you keep track of and report the number of QSO's you've had each month that lasted over 20 mins. There's also a mini-QTX category for >10 min QSO's. When I first decided to participate, I was limited pretty much by available QSO's. Now, I'm much more limited by available time to participate. Tiny resurgence in the Art of the Rag Chew? Competition is a motivator for many young non-hams. #3 grandson once came in while I was in a CW NAQP and asked me what I was doing. I told him it was a contest, and his first response was, "Cool! How do you win?" They all carry the "magic of radio" in a pocket in their cargo shorts. What you can do with a ham radio that you can't do with a cell phone or iPad may be of more interest to them that the radio itself. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/22/2019 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one > communications with someone who we have never met - without the need > for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. > It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone > new via ham radio. > > Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the > emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with > someone new to get to know something about them personally or their > location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that > element being diminished. > > Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and > 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about > ourselves and getting the same in return. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: <http://www.qsl.net> http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
It has been noted that 83.295% of people make up their own statistics. Thus encouraged ... The 2018 ARRL Annual Report says that 2018 ended with 156,899 members, and the somewhat-difficult-to-read little graph indicates that it fell for 11 of the 12 months. 2017 began at about 163,000 and fell to about 159,500 again in 11 of the 12 months [graph isn't well quantified]. It has been falling for a long time, and 170,000 is not an all-time high. More significant is the fraction of total licensees who are ARRL members [similar to market share for a business], a number that has been steadily dropping for some time and is somewhere in the mid-teens today. It is heavily weighted toward older Extra class hams. ARRL took a huge membership hit in the later 60's when its Incentive Licensing proposal was adopted by the FCC and General class licensee's lost big chunks of their spectrum. It's been pretty much downhill ever since. The absolute number of US licensed amateurs has trended upward over the years, but the fraction of the US population who are hams bounces around 0.2% - 0.3% [it's about 0.23% right now]. I've been "in" Dayton during Hamvention several times, sadly at WPAFB working and not at Hara or Xenia, so I can't speak to attendance, but in principle, as the population rises, the absolute number of hams rises, and it's reasonable to expect attendance at large famous events to rise also. Wayne began this thread for very good reasons. The vast majority of new hams are Technicians, most of them will remain Technicians, many will disappear, not many will ever operate an HF transceiver or dabble in EME or construction or satellites, not a lot know much about our National Organization, and fewer will find reason to join. There is a very pronounced divide and finding ways to bridge it seems like a worthwhile endeavor. Might also sell a few more Elecraft radios. [:=)) 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/23/2019 10:21 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: Brethren . . . Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was at an all-time second high last May. According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an all-time high. ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high. When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism. Until then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive. 73, Kent K9ZTV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I usually begin my ham radio talks with youth groups with a question: "How many of you have a radio in your pocket?" I get a room full of blank stares. Then I ask, "How many of you have a smart phone in your pocket?" Every hand goes up. The discussion proceeds from there. Mark AI4BJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
As a fairly active VEC, I consistently see 15 - 20 candidates taking and passing their Tech Exams and/or upgrading their Licenses at each bi-monthly session. Many candidates are EEs or software engineers from here in Silicon Valley and other folks from all walks of life. Seeing the excitement and joy in their faces when they learn that they passed their exam is great. So from where I sit, things are looking up! -- 73 de Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!" > On Dec 23, 2019, at 10:19 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote: > > Brethren . . . > > Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was at an > all-time second high last May. > > According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an all-time high. > > ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high. > > When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism. Until > then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive. > > 73, > > Kent K9ZTV > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to mike.flow...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
The CWops group has a program [CW of course] called "QTX" where you keep track of and report the number of QSO's you've had each month that lasted over 20 mins. There's also a mini-QTX category for >10 min QSO's. When I first decided to participate, I was limited pretty much by available QSO's. Now, I'm much more limited by available time to participate. Tiny resurgence in the Art of the Rag Chew? Competition is a motivator for many young non-hams. #3 grandson once came in while I was in a CW NAQP and asked me what I was doing. I told him it was a contest, and his first response was, "Cool! How do you win?" They all carry the "magic of radio" in a pocket in their cargo shorts. What you can do with a ham radio that you can't do with a cell phone or iPad may be of more interest to them that the radio itself. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County On 12/22/2019 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via ham radio. Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished. Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I mean this sincerely. I'm NOT in grumpy-old-man mode, though I can do that very well. The majority of QSOs with new people are about as interesting, enduring and deep as a short chat in the checkout line at Safeway. Many aren't even that interesting. PSK ops just throw on a brag tape and walk away. It's a pleasant few minutes, but it rarely leads to anything more. It does happen, but who in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars and hours on the outside chance it does? The opportunity for superficial chit chat with strangers was NEVER on my mind at 14 when I got interested in ham radio so it's a bit much to expect teenagers today to care about that. Ham radio has always been chock full of quick award-qualifying or contest contacts. Worked All Continents, countries, states, provinces, counties, grids, lighthouses, summits, guys named Fred. Go back as far as you want in QST and it's full of honor rolls, contest results...and SKs. It's nothing new to this period in ham radio. But ham radio has also been full of interesting challenges too. It's never been a very homogeneous hobby. I have no predictions except things are rapidly changing and that will continue in whatever direction those entering the hobby take it. The Baofeng Techs will change it as much as us Heathkit Kids did. Change is good. Eric KE6US __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Brethren . . . Keep in mind that while the hair gets grayer, attendance at Dayton was at an all-time second high last May. According to the FCC, the number of American licensees is at an all-time high. ARRL reports membership over 170,000, also an all-time high. When those three figures start falling it will be time for pessimism. Until then, let's talk positive, act positive, and be positive. 73, Kent K9ZTV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Well said, Don ... 73 K0PP On Sun, Dec 22, 2019, 21:37 Don Wilhelm wrote: > I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one > communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for > the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. > It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new > via ham radio. > > Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the > emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with > someone new to get to know something about them personally or their > location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that > element being diminished. > > Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 > meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about > ourselves and getting the same in return. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > > > I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young > > people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be > > interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has > > more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It > > might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people > > were doing that 100 years ago. > > > > 73, > > Dave AB7E > > > > > > On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: > >> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away > >> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For > >> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me > >> it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the > >> proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying > >> this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many > >> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions > >> [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus > >> guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the > >> earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a > >> signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the > >> ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. > >> Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric > >> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical > >> challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. > >> Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. > >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to kengk...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
We've been mining this thread for gems, of which there are many. Thanks to all who have contributed pragmatic observations, bold suggestions, and wistful memories. Happy holidays to all. 73, Wayne N6KR > On Dec 23, 2019, at 7:12 AM, Bill Johnson wrote: > > Well put. Totally agree. > > Bill > 920-421-1172 > > > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on > behalf of Don Wilhelm > Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:37:15 PM > To: David Gilbert ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide > > I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one > communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for > the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. > It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new > via ham radio. > > Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the > emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with > someone new to get to know something about them personally or their > location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that > element being diminished. > > Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 > meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about > ourselves and getting the same in return. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: >> >> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young >> people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be >> interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has >> more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It >> might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people >> were doing that 100 years ago. >> >> 73, >> Dave AB7E >> >> >> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: >>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away >>> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For >>> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me >>> it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the >>> proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying >>> this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many >>> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions >>> [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus >>> guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the >>> earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a >>> signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the >>> ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. >>> Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric >>> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical >>> challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. >>> Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. >>> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to k9...@live.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
From what I have seen, it is not just Internet and Cellular that has stolen some thunder from ham radio as an interesting hobby to pursue. It is also computer gaming. Both of my grandsons are into computer games (both in high school now) and both are involved in programming computers (some motivation from me as being a programmer for 50+ years) and they both want to pursue computer programming of games. I hope that changes but this has seriously diminished any interest in ham radio and they both have grown up known about my hobby, electronics, and such. Computer Internet gaming offers some of the same features of ham radio of meeting people all over the world that you did not know before hand. Gaming is one of the Internet based activities that creates International friendships and cross culture exchanges. Surprising, who would have thought. I admit that if I were a kid growing up with today’s technology that I probably would not be interested in ham radio. 73, phil, K7PEH > On Dec 22, 2019, at 8:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > > I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one > communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the > internet, Facebook or any other internet app. > It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via > ham radio. > > Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on > quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to > know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the > thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished. > > Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 > meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves > and getting the same in return. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: >> I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young people >> with a technological inclination are far more likely to be interested in >> software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has more relevance to >> advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It might be a challenge >> to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people were doing that 100 years >> ago. >> 73, >> Dave AB7E >> On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: >>> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No >>> doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never >>> particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a >>> technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the >>> environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is >>> technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that >>> have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking >>> versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in >>> the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more >>> modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, >>> bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a >>> challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric >>> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of >>> the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may >>> be the benny on the other side of mastery. >>> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Well put. Totally agree. Bill 920-421-1172 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net on behalf of Don Wilhelm Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2019 10:37:15 PM To: David Gilbert ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via ham radio. Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished. Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young > people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be > interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has > more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It > might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people > were doing that 100 years ago. > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > > On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: >> There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away >> places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For >> myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me >> it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the >> proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying >> this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many >> traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions >> [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus >> guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the >> earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a >> signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the >> ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. >> Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric >> challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical >> challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. >> Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. >> __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to k9...@live.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
That's true from my perspective as well. But you and I don't count. Wayne started this thread in the context of drawing new members into the hobby (understandably so since his business depends upon it for the long term). If those of us already invested in this hobby aren't interested in ragchewing anymore, at least not to any significant degree as any non-contest day clearly shows, why on earth would we expect ragchewing to be the draw that brings in new members, especially considering the relative barriers (cost, space, license, HOAs, etc)? I'll even bet that the majority of folks subscribed to this reflector spend more time each week reading it than they do ragchewing on the air. It's not like the old days, even for us. So I'll say it one more time and then I'll mercifully refrain from further posts on the topic. Unless ham radio figures out how to evolve into something that actually has appeal for today's youngsters, we're still going to primarily be an aging (and diminishing) club of old people. More of the same, no matter how strongly we try to convince anyone, isn't going to change anything. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/22/2019 9:37 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via ham radio. Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished. Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people were doing that 100 years ago. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I think we need to be focusing on the personal aspect of one on one communications with someone who we have never met - without the need for the internet, Facebook or any other internet app. It is a thrill to me to be able to have a conversation with someone new via ham radio. Of course, even that element is fading out in ham radio with the emphasis on quick DX contacts or contest points. Ragchewing with someone new to get to know something about them personally or their location is what gives me the thrill of ham radio. So sad to see that element being diminished. Bring ragchewing back, and I am not talking about the nets on 80 and 40 meters, it is reaching out to someone new and telling a bit about ourselves and getting the same in return. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/22/2019 11:17 PM, David Gilbert wrote: I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people were doing that 100 years ago. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I think we already discussed that aspect, and the point is that young people with a technological inclination are far more likely to be interested in software, or robotics, or biomedical ... stuff that has more relevance to advancing the world and actually leading to a job. It might be a challenge to bounce a signal of the ionosphere but people were doing that 100 years ago. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/22/2019 6:52 PM, Robert G Strickland via Elecraft wrote: There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. ...robert KE2WY On 12/22/2019 16:06, Paul Lannuier wrote: Chariot racing wasn’t about the chariots; it was about the racing. It was fundamentally no different than modern F1 racing. 73, WW2PT Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote: I wonder if the chariot racers of two or three milennia ago lamented the death of their sport. I too tried to interest my grandson, now 13, in the ham radio hobby, but with no success. He just couldn't see the point. So I reflected on when I was 13 with a newly printed Novice ticket, some 62 years ago, and when I was captivated for life by the wizardry of radio electronics, ionospheric physics, the smell of solder and rosin (and of exploding caps), the excitement of doing successfully what most people can't do at all, the fascination of international communications . . . . . all of the things we now-grandpas found and still find attractive. He found it a yawn. I reflected on it some. So what? The ham radio industry will care, and those who still believe that ham radio is imperative for emergency communications will care (though let's be honest -- cellular and satellite communications have taken much of the wind out of that sail.) But if I enjoy it and you enjoy it, and we both do it, why should we fret if other people don't? If amateur radio evolves in ways that are attractive to the next generation, all to the good. And a form of natural selection may shape the evolution that way. But if ham radio as we know it today doesn't get past a generational divide, if the mutations that survive an evolutionary end point don't occur, does it really matter? Excuse the philosophy, but I have to ask the question: Is our culture really impoverished by the demise of chariot racing? Or is that sport still with us, only morphed over time into something the next generation found attractive. OK. Break time over. Back to the ten-meter contest. Curse this solar minimum! Ted, KN1CBR On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth will ever look at amateur radio like we do.? I wish that weren't the case, but reality bites. 1.? The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to freely talk to faraway places.? Young people today can do that with FM quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message groups and forums. 2.? Communicating today is license free, and while even now with today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that you don't otherwise care about. 3.? Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than for amateur radio, especially for long distances. 4.? Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in the sunspot cycle. 5.? A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping stone to a technical career.? That is hardly the case today.? In fact, I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much on the job. One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of competition.? Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
There is a constant refrain about "communicating with far away places." No doubt that has been one attraction of our hobby. For myself, I was never particularly interested in "communicating." For me it was mastery of a technical environment. Communicating was just the proof that the environment had been mastered. Another way of saying this -maybe- is technology versus sociology. There are many traditional activities that have been replaced by more modern versions [eg, horses versus cars, walking versus bicycling, bow/arrow versus guns]. Yet, there is still interest in the "old way," because the earlier challenges remain in spite of more modern solutions. Getting a signal from my radio, out into the ether, bouncing it off the ionosphere, and back down on the other side is still a challenge. Satellite links and the internet don't negate the ionospheric challenge. Perhaps engaging prospective hams in the technical challenges of the hobby will brings in those who like such challenges. Communicating may be the benny on the other side of mastery. ...robert KE2WY On 12/22/2019 16:06, Paul Lannuier wrote: Chariot racing wasn’t about the chariots; it was about the racing. It was fundamentally no different than modern F1 racing. 73, WW2PT Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote: I wonder if the chariot racers of two or three milennia ago lamented the death of their sport. I too tried to interest my grandson, now 13, in the ham radio hobby, but with no success. He just couldn't see the point. So I reflected on when I was 13 with a newly printed Novice ticket, some 62 years ago, and when I was captivated for life by the wizardry of radio electronics, ionospheric physics, the smell of solder and rosin (and of exploding caps), the excitement of doing successfully what most people can't do at all, the fascination of international communications . . . . . all of the things we now-grandpas found and still find attractive. He found it a yawn. I reflected on it some. So what? The ham radio industry will care, and those who still believe that ham radio is imperative for emergency communications will care (though let's be honest -- cellular and satellite communications have taken much of the wind out of that sail.) But if I enjoy it and you enjoy it, and we both do it, why should we fret if other people don't? If amateur radio evolves in ways that are attractive to the next generation, all to the good. And a form of natural selection may shape the evolution that way. But if ham radio as we know it today doesn't get past a generational divide, if the mutations that survive an evolutionary end point don't occur, does it really matter? Excuse the philosophy, but I have to ask the question: Is our culture really impoverished by the demise of chariot racing? Or is that sport still with us, only morphed over time into something the next generation found attractive. OK. Break time over. Back to the ten-meter contest. Curse this solar minimum! Ted, KN1CBR On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth will ever look at amateur radio like we do.? I wish that weren't the case, but reality bites. 1.? The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to freely talk to faraway places.? Young people today can do that with FM quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message groups and forums. 2.? Communicating today is license free, and while even now with today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that you don't otherwise care about. 3.? Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than for amateur radio, especially for long distances. 4.? Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in the sunspot cycle. 5.? A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping stone to a technical career.? That is hardly the case today.? In fact, I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much on the job. One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of competition.? Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching football to quilting to barbeque.? Young people today have video games that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that has similar elements.? Ham radio contests are essentially endurance events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
Chariot racing wasn’t about the chariots; it was about the racing. It was fundamentally no different than modern F1 racing. 73, WW2PT Sent from my iPad > On Dec 14, 2019, at 12:24 PM, Dauer, Edward wrote: > > I wonder if the chariot racers of two or three milennia ago lamented the > death of their sport. > > I too tried to interest my grandson, now 13, in the ham radio hobby, but with > no success. He just couldn't see the point. So I reflected on when I was 13 > with a newly printed Novice ticket, some 62 years ago, and when I was > captivated for life by the wizardry of radio electronics, ionospheric > physics, the smell of solder and rosin (and of exploding caps), the > excitement of doing successfully what most people can't do at all, the > fascination of international communications . . . . . all of the things we > now-grandpas found and still find attractive. > > He found it a yawn. > > I reflected on it some. So what? The ham radio industry will care, and > those who still believe that ham radio is imperative for emergency > communications will care (though let's be honest -- cellular and satellite > communications have taken much of the wind out of that sail.) But if I enjoy > it and you enjoy it, and we both do it, why should we fret if other people > don't? If amateur radio evolves in ways that are attractive to the next > generation, all to the good. And a form of natural selection may shape the > evolution that way. But if ham radio as we know it today doesn't get past a > generational divide, if the mutations that survive an evolutionary end point > don't occur, does it really matter? > > Excuse the philosophy, but I have to ask the question: Is our culture really > impoverished by the demise of chariot racing? Or is that sport still with > us, only morphed over time into something the next generation found > attractive. > > OK. Break time over. Back to the ten-meter contest. Curse this solar > minimum! > > Ted, KN1CBR > > >>On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: >> >> This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, >> but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth >> will ever look at amateur radio like we do.? I wish that weren't the >> case, but reality bites. >> >> 1.? The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to >> freely talk to faraway places.? Young people today can do that with FM >> quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message >> groups and forums. >> >> 2.? Communicating today is license free, and while even now with >> today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe >> not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that >> you don't otherwise care about. >> >> 3.? Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than >> for amateur radio, especially for long distances. >> >> 4.? Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in >> the sunspot cycle. >> >> 5.? A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping >> stone to a technical career.? That is hardly the case today.? In fact, >> I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling >> me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much >> on the job. >> >> One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of >> competition.? Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost >> anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching >> football to quilting to barbeque.? Young people today have video games >> that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio >> contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way >> to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that >> has similar elements.? Ham radio contests are essentially endurance >> events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the >> comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks or months later.? >> Video games require different but otherwise comparable proficiency >> (both mental and physical) but involve real time counter moves to any >> opponent. The closest we hams come to offsetting somebody we view as >> competition is to steal their frequency or QRM them.? I'm not at all >> suggesting that we do any such thing, but a contest where we could >> take some action that subtracted from somebody else's score is the >> kind of thing I'm talking about.? And no, I don't know how to do that >> either, but it illustrates what I'm talking about. >> >> It's not any surprise to me that contesting is one of the few >> surviving ham radio activities with high participation.? Even >> ragchewing has practically died out, and if anyone disputes that take >> a look at how much time you spend each week reading email reflectors >> versus being on the air (other than in a
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I think this is a very important observation, Ignacy! Remembering my own beginnings in ham radio, the local club that welcomed me, taught me CW, electronics and radio concepts, and even how to operate, met in a dedicated club room that was downstairs from a member's TV repair shop (this was in 1954). Upstairs was his very impressive rack mounted amp with a pair of 813's that glowed bright. That dedicated physical space was more important than we may have realized at the time! Fast forward to today, and much of the camaraderie in our contesting club relates to participation in multi-ops at a handful of big stations, and in county expeditions for CQP. The most recent young person I remember was a very bright YL who got active in both our local club and NCCC (big contesting club) during her jr and sr HS years, then disappeared into the EE program at Univ of Cal Santa Cruz. That was five years ago. 73, Jim K9YC On 12/17/2019 7:20 PM, Ignacy wrote: I went to a SM club. Young people. I went to a RL3 club. Young people. I went to a 9A club. Mention of many young people. Young people want camaraderie and joint activities. With clubs that own buildings, everyone can come, be on the radio, talk, eat and drink. Also participate in communal activities of setting up antennas and celebrating the succces of it. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I go to club meetings in US. Almost no young people. I went to a SM club. Young people. I went to a RL3 club. Young people. I went to a 9A club. Mention of many young people. Young people want camaraderie and joint activities. With clubs that own buildings, everyone can come, be on the radio, talk, eat and drink. Also participate in communal activities of setting up antennas and celebrating the succces of it. Being alone in an HOA restricted apartment with signals barely heard because of compromised antenna and high RFI is hardly stimulating. Ignacy, NO9E -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
My son has a general license. He uses it mostly as part of his search and rescue team. Really he doesn't have time to play radio with a high-tension job, a wife, and a 6 year old. Our club has some interesting new members: Two women in their early 40s, newly licensed at the extra level. They ran our digital operation at field day all night. We might see more of them, but they are trying to get a high-tech startup off the ground. A father/daughter combo. The daughter is barely a teenager if at all but has a license. So does the father. I see a lot of older people getting licenses as part of their interest in community service. The take home observation is that people today don't have much free time. There is tremendous contention for what free time there is. Getting on the air needs to pop to the top of the list before we have a new, active ham. Any radio designed to attract new people to ham radio should recognize that getting a higher level license is a challange which will only be met by someone already motivated. The tech level license doesn't help attract people to what most of us consider ham radio -- HF. Learning CW requires a lot of motivation, and the only non-CW available in HF is 10M SSB -- Not the best band a the bottom of a sunspot cycle. Some of the ARRL suggestions for opening some HF to tech digital operation would go a long way toward solving these problems. But in the current environment, to come out with a radio that supports 10M but only does FM, is something only a company not thinking about the US licensing structure could do. (And yes, I have a specific radio company in mind.) As a side note, I became interested in operating, as compared with building equipment, because I discovered that PSK31 was a lot like the computer chat systems I had used. They were already comfortable, so the only barriers were the radio problems, which I had a good background in solving. (I have since branched out into CW and voice, but digital is still my home territory.) 73 Bill AE6JV, who hasn't been on the air since moving into a retirement home. On 12/14/19 at 11:12 AM, w...@w0mu.com (W0MU Mike Fatchett) wrote: I am not sure how you sell Ham Radio to people today. I have two sons and a daughter. One son got licensed really young and did some contests and mobile activities with me but never got hooked like I did. People have less free time than ever and there are more options for entertainment than ever. --- Bill Frantz| Concurrency is hard. 12 out | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | 10 programmers get it wrong. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com |- Jeff Frantz | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
By the way, and more directly related to Elecraft and Wayne's original post, not too long ago I proposed that Elecraft might consider building a smallish, portable, dedicated FT8/4 radio. Something with a screen and using the core engine of WSJT-X but with a much better user interface, a better logger, and the ability to actually say something (i.e., more than four message lines). It got almost zero traction here, and none from Elecraft, but I still think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Think of it as the HF equivalent of texting. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I agree with Wayne that we need to be empathetic to reach out to people to interest them in ham radio. Many of the posts here make points some very good points. In general, I think we are not doing as much as some of our old mentors did for us when we started in the hobby, and we are a little rigid about insisting newbies should follow the established and proper path. I've been working with a group of nine new hams and three old timers at our local club since September, teaching them Morse code. (One is my XYL, a university professor who started a program in user experience design -- but not a stem person -- who got interested in the crossover between the maker world, robotics in schools and ham radio at Dayton a couple of years ago.) Granted, this CW group are already all hams, so they are "bought in" to the hobby, but as a group they weren't getting on HF in the way we think of ham radio. One newbie was a life-long SWL, so he was predisposed to HF. One old timer was a VHF guy, and the other two do HF digital. Two are women, including my wife. I had a plan to get them interested in HF and specifically contesting. They got their licenses in late April and I gave a talk about contesting and being radio active in general. I set up two stations for them at Field Day and sat beside each of them, helping them make their first Qs on phone. Five of them got pretty serious sitting at my K3s. One of the others brought his microBitX arduino-based rig and had a frustrating time, but stayed positive. Right after FD, two of the newbies bought Icom 7300s. At FD, I talked about a Morse course, with elements of getting started in ham radio thrown in, to start in the Fall. They all watched me make some Morse FD contacts, more easily than voice, and they all agreed to come to the course. To prepare, I became a Canadian examiner with Morse credentials, so I could administer Morse tests to endorse their licences at the end of the course if they wanted it. In the course, I've mostly followed the CWOps approach of introducing the letters and using 18 or 20 wpm Farnsworthed down to 3 wpm then 5 wpm and now about 10 wpm. I've made half-hour mp3s on my web site. I've sent in class. I told them they would teach themselves code, using some of the amazing tools now available on websites, such as RUFz, LCWO, Morse Runner, etc., and the class was there to help. One of the old timers, a software engineer, wrote a training program that introduces letters in our class order, and sends them to you and you type them. It keeps track of the ones you know, don't know, and know slowly, and it changes the probability of letters and spacing between them as a result. What I didn't expect is the sense of community among the students in the class. They are very much become friends, kind of a sub group of new people within the local club. They send emails about their progress to the group, for example when they work some DX on SSB. They're all putting up antennas, getting gear, etc. This friendliness has really paid off now that they're starting to send Morse to each other because they're so mutually positive about getting each other past shyness. Many of them are starting with paddles -- two of them made their own. I've given some of them old straight keys I've collected for this purpose, and they've put them on bases. The microBITx guy worked really hard on his CW practising, and I could tell he was getting frustrated with his rig, so I loaned him an old K2 I haven't been using "for a year or two, until he figures out what rig he wants". I steered him towards SKCC and he's made some SKCC QSOs and has an SKCC number. One of the women borrowed an old Henry Radio Tempo One from someone (and early Yaesu rig without keyer or sidetone), so I lent her one of those Bencher paddles with MFJ keyer attached so she can have a shot at CW with this rig. A few of us are probably going to build QRP Labs QCX 5 watt transceivers together. Two of the students now have KX3s they got used and are excited about portable operation. Two people have dropped out and will return for the next course, but they're staying on the email list and talking. Two others almost dropped out because they stopped practising for a couple of weeks, and the others cajoled them back!! I keep sending them encouraging emails and introducing new topics. They're all very interested in the history of ham radio, and a few of them see Morse as a connection to telegraph communications and early wireless telegraphy via radio. One has a grandfather who was a telegrapher. We've compared the sound of continental "railway" Morse to International CW Morse. Etc. etc. I'm so happy about all this. I expected to have about two students make it to where they made CW Qs on the air. It's going to be much higher than that, and I might even create a few new CW contesters. We'll see what happens with the Rookie Roundup. What have I learned? Let the group and
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
OK Folks I’ve stayed on this Mailing list for tech info. While I got rid of my K3S I still have my KPA-1500. But you people have just become way too strange for me. (And to do that you have to take a giant step over what anyone considers normal ) I’ll get my info from the website. I’m out of here and off this Mailing list. Ron Genovesi n3...@coastside.net > On Dec 14, 2019, at 6:54 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > > > Completely true ... all of it. > > 73, > Dave AB7E > > > > On 12/14/2019 7:46 PM, EricJ wrote: >> We're missing the point here somehow. Siri's answer should have been "The >> best way to contact Helen is to pick up your phone and call her." >> >> Anything else is pretty much a waste of time and resources just to talk to >> Helen. Seriously, there's a sizable investment in specialized equipment to >> make contact via AMSAT or whatever. The contact is set up for them. Then Jon >> and Helen wait to be told when the link is ready. If that's worth doing and >> will attract young people, then just shoot me. It sounds terminally boring. >> >> Making that investment in specialized equipment can't be justified as >> utilitarian communication because it's expensive and inefficient. If the >> point is to contact your friends any time you want to, they are already >> doing that with a half a dozen reliable instant technologies all accessible >> from the same smartphone. I don't get where ham radio comes in to solve a >> problem they have already solved. Certainly not with a system that requires >> waiting 15 minutes for a satellite to get in position, and a Cupertino Robot >> to set up the call. >> >> I don't have the answer to attracting young people to a rapidly changing >> hobby in an even more rapidly changing world. The aspects of the hobby that >> attracted many of us was the sheer magic of radio itself. We weren't >> attracted to it because it let us contact our friends. Even then we had the >> telephone for that. We were attracted to the magic. Nine times out of ten, >> the communication part was "599 OM PSE QSL". >> >> I always heard how DX contacts would allow me to learn about other cultures. >> Actually, it did. After exchanging signal reports, I'd look up their city >> with an atlas or encyclopedia. But I learned zip on the air. A few >> California Kilowatts could hog a DX station, and chit chat for a few >> minutes, and did because they could. But the rest of us never got beyond the >> basic exchange and fought like hell for that. But it was magic so it didn't >> matter that it wasn't all that practical. >> >> The magic that attracted us is gone. Maybe there's new magic to be found, >> but it's different magic that most of us with 30-70 years in the hobby won't >> understand...and probably won't like. We are the wrong people to even be >> considering answers but anyone expecting to make a living from the hobby >> will have to find that new magic. It ain't instant communication and it >> ain't the ham radio equivalent of retro turntables. >> >> Eric KE6US >> >> ex-K1DCK, WA6YCF, WB2PVW >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n3...@coastside.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Completely true ... all of it. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/14/2019 7:46 PM, EricJ wrote: We're missing the point here somehow. Siri's answer should have been "The best way to contact Helen is to pick up your phone and call her." Anything else is pretty much a waste of time and resources just to talk to Helen. Seriously, there's a sizable investment in specialized equipment to make contact via AMSAT or whatever. The contact is set up for them. Then Jon and Helen wait to be told when the link is ready. If that's worth doing and will attract young people, then just shoot me. It sounds terminally boring. Making that investment in specialized equipment can't be justified as utilitarian communication because it's expensive and inefficient. If the point is to contact your friends any time you want to, they are already doing that with a half a dozen reliable instant technologies all accessible from the same smartphone. I don't get where ham radio comes in to solve a problem they have already solved. Certainly not with a system that requires waiting 15 minutes for a satellite to get in position, and a Cupertino Robot to set up the call. I don't have the answer to attracting young people to a rapidly changing hobby in an even more rapidly changing world. The aspects of the hobby that attracted many of us was the sheer magic of radio itself. We weren't attracted to it because it let us contact our friends. Even then we had the telephone for that. We were attracted to the magic. Nine times out of ten, the communication part was "599 OM PSE QSL". I always heard how DX contacts would allow me to learn about other cultures. Actually, it did. After exchanging signal reports, I'd look up their city with an atlas or encyclopedia. But I learned zip on the air. A few California Kilowatts could hog a DX station, and chit chat for a few minutes, and did because they could. But the rest of us never got beyond the basic exchange and fought like hell for that. But it was magic so it didn't matter that it wasn't all that practical. The magic that attracted us is gone. Maybe there's new magic to be found, but it's different magic that most of us with 30-70 years in the hobby won't understand...and probably won't like. We are the wrong people to even be considering answers but anyone expecting to make a living from the hobby will have to find that new magic. It ain't instant communication and it ain't the ham radio equivalent of retro turntables. Eric KE6US ex-K1DCK, WA6YCF, WB2PVW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
s are near me and can I link >> to Helen in Scotland ?" >> Siri: " Yes Jon there are several repeaters nearby but the best way to >> contact Helen is via Amsat, one will be over horizon in 15 minutes, shall I >> let Helen know you want to contact her ? conditions are favorable" >> Jon: " Yes Siri, let her know, I'll get the antenna ready" >> >> Sounds like science fiction ?- no this is technically feasible today - >> question is will some entity make the investments to make it happen ? >> >> Best Regards >> Andy >> K3CAQ >> >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On >> Behalf Of Wayne Burdick >> Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 6:24 PM >> To: Elecraft Reflector >> Subject: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide >> >> Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall >> their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with >> faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric >> equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of >> antennas to harness action at a distance. >> >> Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily >> basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. >> >> While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, >> their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for >> half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a >> dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. >> >> Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? >> >> What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? >> >> Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? >> >> To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, >> open-ended inquiry. >> >> 73, >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message >> delivered to andy.moorw...@moorcom.com >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to eric.c...@gmail.com >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to macymonk...@charter.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
We're missing the point here somehow. Siri's answer should have been "The best way to contact Helen is to pick up your phone and call her." Anything else is pretty much a waste of time and resources just to talk to Helen. Seriously, there's a sizable investment in specialized equipment to make contact via AMSAT or whatever. The contact is set up for them. Then Jon and Helen wait to be told when the link is ready. If that's worth doing and will attract young people, then just shoot me. It sounds terminally boring. Making that investment in specialized equipment can't be justified as utilitarian communication because it's expensive and inefficient. If the point is to contact your friends any time you want to, they are already doing that with a half a dozen reliable instant technologies all accessible from the same smartphone. I don't get where ham radio comes in to solve a problem they have already solved. Certainly not with a system that requires waiting 15 minutes for a satellite to get in position, and a Cupertino Robot to set up the call. I don't have the answer to attracting young people to a rapidly changing hobby in an even more rapidly changing world. The aspects of the hobby that attracted many of us was the sheer magic of radio itself. We weren't attracted to it because it let us contact our friends. Even then we had the telephone for that. We were attracted to the magic. Nine times out of ten, the communication part was "599 OM PSE QSL". I always heard how DX contacts would allow me to learn about other cultures. Actually, it did. After exchanging signal reports, I'd look up their city with an atlas or encyclopedia. But I learned zip on the air. A few California Kilowatts could hog a DX station, and chit chat for a few minutes, and did because they could. But the rest of us never got beyond the basic exchange and fought like hell for that. But it was magic so it didn't matter that it wasn't all that practical. The magic that attracted us is gone. Maybe there's new magic to be found, but it's different magic that most of us with 30-70 years in the hobby won't understand...and probably won't like. We are the wrong people to even be considering answers but anyone expecting to make a living from the hobby will have to find that new magic. It ain't instant communication and it ain't the ham radio equivalent of retro turntables. Eric KE6US ex-K1DCK, WA6YCF, WB2PVW On 12/14/2019 5:35 PM, andy.moorw...@moorcom.com wrote: Question: Can amateur radio reach across the digital divide ? My answer: It could Follow up Question: Do you think it will ? My answer: No, not with current products and modes of use Why do I say this ? My 20 year old wants a turntable for Christmas. Why on earth does he want one when he can download any song he wants from his apple music account ? Answer: People of his generation are moving beyond mere utility (listening to any song anywhere anytime), they now want a musical experience, playing a vinyl record - could be one of mine - with all the "atmosphere" (hiss and scratches) to experience the music as it was "made". Could this experiential notion morph to a communications form? Communications utility is being able to contact your friends at anytime from anywhere, instantly, AKA the ubiquitous smartphone. A communications experience could be one where the path / mode is dynamic and not guaranteed to succeed (applies to VHF linked repeater systems and HF). So why won't this happen ? We (amateur radio hobbyists and industry) don't follow the usage paradigms they are used to and frankly expect, built around their smartphones. The turn tables I'm looking at have RCA jacks to connect to an amplifier but they also have Bluetooth to connect to your phone and speakers, and of course "there's an App for that" on the smartphone. People of this generation are not going to configure virtual COM ports so their apps can access a radio. Neither will they work through windows "wizard" configuration screens. Apple and the other developers have made set up effortlessly work and offer digital assistants to help you on your way. For example, below is a conversation from a possible radio future. Jon, Ham Radio Operator: "Hey Siri what repeaters are near me and can I link to Helen in Scotland ?" Siri: " Yes Jon there are several repeaters nearby but the best way to contact Helen is via Amsat, one will be over horizon in 15 minutes, shall I let Helen know you want to contact her ? conditions are favorable" Jon: " Yes Siri, let her know, I'll get the antenna ready" Sounds like science fiction ?- no this is technically feasible today - question is will some entity make the investments to make it happen ? Best Regards Andy K3CAQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 6:
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Question: Can amateur radio reach across the digital divide ? My answer: It could Follow up Question: Do you think it will ? My answer: No, not with current products and modes of use Why do I say this ? My 20 year old wants a turntable for Christmas. Why on earth does he want one when he can download any song he wants from his apple music account ? Answer: People of his generation are moving beyond mere utility (listening to any song anywhere anytime), they now want a musical experience, playing a vinyl record - could be one of mine - with all the "atmosphere" (hiss and scratches) to experience the music as it was "made". Could this experiential notion morph to a communications form? Communications utility is being able to contact your friends at anytime from anywhere, instantly, AKA the ubiquitous smartphone. A communications experience could be one where the path / mode is dynamic and not guaranteed to succeed (applies to VHF linked repeater systems and HF). So why won't this happen ? We (amateur radio hobbyists and industry) don't follow the usage paradigms they are used to and frankly expect, built around their smartphones. The turn tables I'm looking at have RCA jacks to connect to an amplifier but they also have Bluetooth to connect to your phone and speakers, and of course "there's an App for that" on the smartphone. People of this generation are not going to configure virtual COM ports so their apps can access a radio. Neither will they work through windows "wizard" configuration screens. Apple and the other developers have made set up effortlessly work and offer digital assistants to help you on your way. For example, below is a conversation from a possible radio future. Jon, Ham Radio Operator: "Hey Siri what repeaters are near me and can I link to Helen in Scotland ?" Siri: " Yes Jon there are several repeaters nearby but the best way to contact Helen is via Amsat, one will be over horizon in 15 minutes, shall I let Helen know you want to contact her ? conditions are favorable" Jon: " Yes Siri, let her know, I'll get the antenna ready" Sounds like science fiction ?- no this is technically feasible today - question is will some entity make the investments to make it happen ? Best Regards Andy K3CAQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 6:24 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, open-ended inquiry. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to andy.moorw...@moorcom.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Hi Nate, Nice to meet you, a very small world indeed. https://www.omaha.com/obits/michaelson-russell-russ-stevens/article_4b36033a -a07d-543f-a1ab-43687f27a0e6.html Yes, Russ had a great voice! When I first met him he was a dj on KNAK, I believe. When he was on the air I would call him up and "win" albums. I was in my 30's when he relocated to Omaha. I was really sad to see him go. He took his tower with him when we moved. Although I don't think he ever set up a station again. When I was 15, before getting my Novice license, I went with Russ to attend WIMU at Mac's Inn. Russ had copied all of the military code course to cassette tapes and gave me a copy. I listened and practiced for many hours. At WIMU Russ had me sit down for one of the code contests. Even though I joined part way through I ended up winning! That was pretty cool for a kid just learning code and ready to take the Novice exam.The speeds went up to 25 or 30 WPM! I still have voice mails on my phone left by Russ. I will regret the day that I may have to replace my phone and can no longer hear his voice. He had a huge effect on my life. 73 len -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Nate Bargmann Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 12:02 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide * On 2019 14 Dec 11:02 -0600, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote: > And last... The real thing that drew me to ham radio was > another ham, Russ Michaelson N7SM (SK 2019). Russ and I meet at > the University of Utah's surplus store. Even though we had a 12 > year age difference, Russ and I connected almost immediately and > became lifelong friends. I was in Junior high school and Russ > was beginning a family when we meet. From Russ I learned about > more about radio and electronics, and we had many adventures in > the process. I never remember Russ complaining about the > ionosphere. He built a magnificent basement "shack". When he > built his own 100 foot tower from scratch I climbed to the top > to help set up and adjust antennas. (By then I was in my 20's, > no child labor involved. :) If we expect this hobby to > continue into the future, we need to be the "Russ" in someone > else's life. We need to pass our love of radio to the next > generation. Just expecting someone to "be" interested and on > their way after the exam will never happen. Propagation will > always change, we need to be the constant. I went to work for Union Pacific Railroad in 1991 as a telecom tech and there was a very distinctive voice on many voice response systems on the UPRR telephone network. I learned that was "Russ" and later got to talk with him on the phone and then a few years later he came to Wichita, KS and did a presentation for several of us techs on something (I don't recall what, now!). It was quite nice meeting him in person. I did not know he had become SK earlier this year. Thanks for sharing your experiences with Russ, Len. Rest assured, Russ' voice was heard by likely all UPRR employees at some point through the '90s and early '00s as well as customers and others calling UPRR in Omaha. For those looking for more simple kits to introduce basic radio concepts to newcomers, various QRP groups offer such kits. I know the Four State QRP Group has done so in the past. One shorthand phrase I like to use is. "Radio for radio's sake." I translate it as no matter what end goal we're trying to achieve, we're using some part of the radio spectrum to accomplish the goal. 73, Nate, N0NB -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@ka7ftp.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Fascinating to read the stories how many of you got started in ham radio. I'm six years younger than Jim W9VNE / VA3VNE. As a youngster, space travel caught my interest (back when it was science fiction) and I developed an interest in science. At age 12, I happened to discover a Zenith shortwave radio at a friend's house that showed "Police" bands. We tried it out but heard nothing until tuning down to 4-mcs (Hertz was not yet in use) and found a bunch of guys talking. 1957 I built a 3-tube regen receiver and 1958 got my Novice license. My aspirations switched to electronics and I pursued an EE degree in college a few years later. Having only a Technician license "shoved" me into the VHF bands. Space tech still attracted me and I was lucky to get a job working for NASA in 1971 at Goldstone Tracking Facility. 1979 I moved to Alaska for a different lifestyle and worked 30 years as a 2-way radio tech. Ham radio lead me to my profession and has remained my interest for over 60 years. These days, I am well into doing eme on the microwaves. Not sure how ham radio attracts folks these days. But my guess a few of the STEM students are a good bet. These days building small microprocessors as part of ham radio is a obvious entry. Certainly a K3S or K4 is pretty high-end for young folks. So there is the KX2/KX3 and a plethora of SDR's to get folks going (like my 3-tube regen and DX-35 did for me). Unfortunately, Heathkit is no more but then thru-hole soldering is long gone, as well. Maybe future will see some youngsters building quantum radios?? 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com Dubus-NA Business mail: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
As an info point relating to age of new hams: I am on our VE team here in Oregon, we put through several hundred folks a year, maybe even 500 to 1000. Most people that are new to ham radio here, are between 25 and 35, with a tilt toward 40... Very narrow range. 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 12/14/19 12:13 PM, Douglas Zwiebel wrote: I was caught off guard by Wayne's post. What was he trying to say? Was he trying to say why the K3 is going away and now we have the K4's? Maybe. It's prettier and more likely to attract the younger crowd based on looks? Could be, but that price? Nope. I got interested in ham radio when a friend in the 7th grade got his license...or maybe it was 8th grade. I thought it was "cool" that he was talking with stations in other states that were not next door to our state (NJ). One day, my mom drove me over and I caught him working DX (Europe). Wow. That did it for me. It was like magic. And Morse code, difficult as it may have been to learn, was another aspect of the magic. After my General class came in the mail, I swore off CW. Good bye forever. I spent the first couple years working DX, building up my totals (on mostly SSB, but even AM back then. I still remember working ZD3E on 10m AM). But pretty quickly (relative term), I ran out of stuff to work. Where was all the "good" DX? On CW! So back I went...and loaded up my log with "good" DX, especially the deep Asian Soviet states. I just loved their CW tone (not clean). And one day, I happened to run into a DX contest. This was like a year's worth of DXing rolled up into 1 day (I didn't know the contest ran for 48 hours). It was heaven. And that started me on contesting. I agree with the comments that contesting is growing. It is! See, for example, https://cqww.com/stats.htm What happened in the 21st century? Nobody knows for sure, but it was big (at least for contesting). I also agree with the comment that not everybody contests for the entire contest. Hardly! See https://cqww.com/blog/operating-time-for-single-operator-entries/ This is a bit dated, but since I am the one who does this calculation, I can tell you that i continues even today. Most guy give out points...not trying to win. Most entrants (not participants, but actual entrants) only operate a total of 15 hours or less. That's like 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in evening on Sat and Sun. Not much really. But for today's active kids, who has time to devote to contesting when they can be gaming? Most gaming is completed in short bursts of time. Same with social media. With contesting, well, you gotta wait until it's over at 2359z Sunday. And then it takes a long time to get anything close to real results. Long time = weeks to get the raw scores (which is a GIANT improvement over the old days). Now a real marketing question. Does it matter if the newbies to ham radio are teenagers? So what if the newbies are all "new retirees?" I don't know if that is true, but for me, inflow is inflow. I know lots of guys my age who wanted to be a ham when they were my age when I got my license, but didn't, but now still do and arefinally getting their ticket. AND, they have more $$ to spend than some 13 year old (like I and my friend were when we got interested). How does "age of entry" = maintenance of the population? Whatever. Enough rambling, cuz that's all I have to say. I have the next 2 weeks off from work and I'm catching up on "other" radio stuff, like this reflector. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I was caught off guard by Wayne's post. What was he trying to say? Was he trying to say why the K3 is going away and now we have the K4's? Maybe. It's prettier and more likely to attract the younger crowd based on looks? Could be, but that price? Nope. I got interested in ham radio when a friend in the 7th grade got his license...or maybe it was 8th grade. I thought it was "cool" that he was talking with stations in other states that were not next door to our state (NJ). One day, my mom drove me over and I caught him working DX (Europe). Wow. That did it for me. It was like magic. And Morse code, difficult as it may have been to learn, was another aspect of the magic. After my General class came in the mail, I swore off CW. Good bye forever. I spent the first couple years working DX, building up my totals (on mostly SSB, but even AM back then. I still remember working ZD3E on 10m AM). But pretty quickly (relative term), I ran out of stuff to work. Where was all the "good" DX? On CW! So back I went...and loaded up my log with "good" DX, especially the deep Asian Soviet states. I just loved their CW tone (not clean). And one day, I happened to run into a DX contest. This was like a year's worth of DXing rolled up into 1 day (I didn't know the contest ran for 48 hours). It was heaven. And that started me on contesting. I agree with the comments that contesting is growing. It is! See, for example, https://cqww.com/stats.htm What happened in the 21st century? Nobody knows for sure, but it was big (at least for contesting). I also agree with the comment that not everybody contests for the entire contest. Hardly! See https://cqww.com/blog/operating-time-for-single-operator-entries/ This is a bit dated, but since I am the one who does this calculation, I can tell you that i continues even today. Most guy give out points...not trying to win. Most entrants (not participants, but actual entrants) only operate a total of 15 hours or less. That's like 3 hours in the morning and 4 hours in evening on Sat and Sun. Not much really. But for today's active kids, who has time to devote to contesting when they can be gaming? Most gaming is completed in short bursts of time. Same with social media. With contesting, well, you gotta wait until it's over at 2359z Sunday. And then it takes a long time to get anything close to real results. Long time = weeks to get the raw scores (which is a GIANT improvement over the old days). Now a real marketing question. Does it matter if the newbies to ham radio are teenagers? So what if the newbies are all "new retirees?" I don't know if that is true, but for me, inflow is inflow. I know lots of guys my age who wanted to be a ham when they were my age when I got my license, but didn't, but now still do and arefinally getting their ticket. AND, they have more $$ to spend than some 13 year old (like I and my friend were when we got interested). How does "age of entry" = maintenance of the population? Whatever. Enough rambling, cuz that's all I have to say. I have the next 2 weeks off from work and I'm catching up on "other" radio stuff, like this reflector. de Doug KR2Q __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
I have read with interest the various postings on this thread. To pick one out, Dave AB7E's analysis is, IMHO, spot on. As times roll on, various aspects of cultural life change, also. "New technologies" of whatever form will naturally catch the general interest, while old ones will diminish to the status of niche interests for the few. Young people generally are at the leading edge of taking up the new, while old folks hold on to the trailing edge of the old for all the usual reasons. I had an MG-TD with a broken starter in my youth; I crank started it for a year. Many funny stories, lots of fun, and some skill acquisition [pull up, don't push down]. But, I don't think that those "positives" which I fondly remember would prompt many young people to adapt a crank-start car. My father was interested in many things. He taught me to make black powder, and I blew the front off the kitchen stove [long story]. He would draw one-tube radio schematics on the back of paper napkins. Interesting for me for the novelty and for my father's interest. He/we bought an AM 3-tube radio from an electronics store in Washington DC which we built together. That was fun, although I don't remember using it much. When I started in ham radio at age 16, I followed the lead of a ham friend who got me started with code, and a big time DX operator who was an engineer at the weather bureau technical labs who owned a Collins 75A-4 and had built himself a 3-el 40m yagi [came down in the first big winter storm]. I bought a Heathkit DX-20 and a used National NC-98, a total investment of under $100. The antenna was a single wire that ran under the window and out to a back yard fence [length 30ft, hgt 15ft]. I actually worked some people! I learned CW for the simple reason that it was the only mode that I could afford. I majored in EE in college and spent 10 years in that line of work. And so on... When I got back into ham radio in 1989 at the age of 49y/o, several things were different. I had money to buy decent equipment. I owned my own home which made antenna construction MUCH easier. I had an adult's sensibility about technical stuff. I found CW interesting as a "second language." "Communicating" was not the goal but rather the proof that I had successfully mastered various technical challenges. Tinkering with antennas [the quad went up and down regularly] and computer modeling of same was interesting. The QSO/communicating was not primary but, again, the proof that I had solved some antenna problem. Hunting DX and contesting became my central focus, again as proofs that I had the station set up as best as circumstances allowed and that my operating skill set was up to the challenge. My take away from all this is that unique factors in my life have prompted and supported my interest in ham radio. I don't think that "fun" has ever been the primary motivation - although I do enjoy a good run in the CQWW-CW. The learning and acquisition curve in the hobby has always matched my resources at any one time. Today, the cost and complexity of the hobby is pretty steep. Given the difficulty in getting young people involved in STEM interests and studies, the idiot-proof nature of the consumer digital world, the low value placed on hardware curiosity and tinkering [nothing is fixed, just replaced], and the cultural focus on immediate gratification, is it so surprising that ham radio is a difficult sell? All IMHO. ...robert On 12/14/2019 02:24, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, open-ended inquiry. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rc...@verizon.net -- Robert G Strickland, PhD ABPH - KE2WY rc...@verizon.net.usa Syracuse, New
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
* On 2019 14 Dec 11:02 -0600, l...@ka7ftp.com wrote: > And last... The real thing that drew me to ham radio was > another ham, Russ Michaelson N7SM (SK 2019). Russ and I meet at > the University of Utah's surplus store. Even though we had a 12 > year age difference, Russ and I connected almost immediately and > became lifelong friends. I was in Junior high school and Russ > was beginning a family when we meet. From Russ I learned about > more about radio and electronics, and we had many adventures in > the process. I never remember Russ complaining about the > ionosphere. He built a magnificent basement "shack". When he > built his own 100 foot tower from scratch I climbed to the top > to help set up and adjust antennas. (By then I was in my 20's, > no child labor involved. :) If we expect this hobby to > continue into the future, we need to be the "Russ" in someone > else's life. We need to pass our love of radio to the next > generation. Just expecting someone to "be" interested and on > their way after the exam will never happen. Propagation will > always change, we need to be the constant. I went to work for Union Pacific Railroad in 1991 as a telecom tech and there was a very distinctive voice on many voice response systems on the UPRR telephone network. I learned that was "Russ" and later got to talk with him on the phone and then a few years later he came to Wichita, KS and did a presentation for several of us techs on something (I don't recall what, now!). It was quite nice meeting him in person. I did not know he had become SK earlier this year. Thanks for sharing your experiences with Russ, Len. Rest assured, Russ' voice was heard by likely all UPRR employees at some point through the '90s and early '00s as well as customers and others calling UPRR in Omaha. For those looking for more simple kits to introduce basic radio concepts to newcomers, various QRP groups offer such kits. I know the Four State QRP Group has done so in the past. One shorthand phrase I like to use is. "Radio for radio's sake." I translate it as no matter what end goal we're trying to achieve, we're using some part of the radio spectrum to accomplish the goal. 73, Nate, N0NB -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] Reaching Across the Chronological Divide
I wonder if the chariot racers of two or three milennia ago lamented the death of their sport. I too tried to interest my grandson, now 13, in the ham radio hobby, but with no success. He just couldn't see the point. So I reflected on when I was 13 with a newly printed Novice ticket, some 62 years ago, and when I was captivated for life by the wizardry of radio electronics, ionospheric physics, the smell of solder and rosin (and of exploding caps), the excitement of doing successfully what most people can't do at all, the fascination of international communications . . . . . all of the things we now-grandpas found and still find attractive. He found it a yawn. I reflected on it some. So what? The ham radio industry will care, and those who still believe that ham radio is imperative for emergency communications will care (though let's be honest -- cellular and satellite communications have taken much of the wind out of that sail.) But if I enjoy it and you enjoy it, and we both do it, why should we fret if other people don't? If amateur radio evolves in ways that are attractive to the next generation, all to the good. And a form of natural selection may shape the evolution that way. But if ham radio as we know it today doesn't get past a generational divide, if the mutations that survive an evolutionary end point don't occur, does it really matter? Excuse the philosophy, but I have to ask the question: Is our culture really impoverished by the demise of chariot racing? Or is that sport still with us, only morphed over time into something the next generation found attractive. OK. Break time over. Back to the ten-meter contest. Curse this solar minimum! Ted, KN1CBR On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, > but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth > will ever look at amateur radio like we do.? I wish that weren't the > case, but reality bites. > > 1.? The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to > freely talk to faraway places.? Young people today can do that with FM > quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message > groups and forums. > > 2.? Communicating today is license free, and while even now with > today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe > not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that > you don't otherwise care about. > > 3.? Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than > for amateur radio, especially for long distances. > > 4.? Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in > the sunspot cycle. > > 5.? A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping > stone to a technical career.? That is hardly the case today.? In fact, > I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling > me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much > on the job. > > One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of > competition.? Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost > anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching > football to quilting to barbeque.? Young people today have video games > that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio > contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way > to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that > has similar elements.? Ham radio contests are essentially endurance > events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the > comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks or months later.? > Video games require different but otherwise comparable proficiency > (both mental and physical) but involve real time counter moves to any > opponent. The closest we hams come to offsetting somebody we view as > competition is to steal their frequency or QRM them.? I'm not at all > suggesting that we do any such thing, but a contest where we could > take some action that subtracted from somebody else's score is the > kind of thing I'm talking about.? And no, I don't know how to do that > either, but it illustrates what I'm talking about. > > It's not any surprise to me that contesting is one of the few > surviving ham radio activities with high participation.? Even > ragchewing has practically died out, and if anyone disputes that take > a look at how much time you spend each week reading email reflectors > versus being on the air (other than in a contest). > > I'm not really sure what Wayne was referring to here, and maybe he > implied that same thing that I'm saying, but we
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Only five years ago did I get my license, even though I was interested in radio sixty years ago. My sons, now in their early 30's have watched my radio activities with curiosity. A few anecdotes: 1) On a camping trip for the three of us in Adirondack Park we set up my Buddipole and KX3. They were astounded. One said "Wow, it's amazing what signals and people are around us all the time!" He's a successful robotics engineer who is as immersed in today's technology as much as anyone. He can run a million-dollar robot or his house from his smartphone, but the experience of sitting at a remote campground and talking to people with 10 watts and AA batteries still intrigued him. 2) My other son was complaining about a DZOTA on his commute and suggested we explore it. Having no radio other that what was in his car, I tuned in 1710 KHz AM and we listened. He drove around the area noting the changes in QRM, sometimes obviously a advertising sign, but above it all something loud going on in an area that seemed to delineate his DZOTA. At one point we wandered into a school parking lot, thinking the QRM was coming from the school, but it didn't pan out. He will have fun tracking it down. His career is in cybersecurity. 3) One son was amazed to see my QSO with Antarctica with a KX3, KXPA100, and a simple wire dipole. Both sons understand communications theory well enough, but have trouble grasping the reality of capturing a signal that is 24 decibels below the noise floor from such a remote place. When I told them my .25W WSPR signal was picked up in Tasmania, they believed me, but only. When I explained to one how easy it would be to use the shortwave radio I gave him to monitor my activity on FT8, even in his apartment, maybe with an antenna connected to his rain gutter, he was intrigued but skeptical. They know there is still magic out there. They probably could get their Technician without studying. Will they get their licenses? At times I have a study manual with us and ask questions, some of which are just basic common sense or stuff that is useful to everyone. Their response is, "Are those real questions?" They are both primed to be curious about amateur radio (one even uses SDR's in his research!) but, despite my encouragement, haven't taken any tests. Maybe one problem is that our kids are too "tested out" from this education system and are afraid of failing once again. Since their dad passed all the tests, they know it can be done. Does it help to hear that if you fail a test, it doesn't go on your record? Or to hear that you don't need a score of 100%? We've all heard potential hams say, "Oh, but I don't think I could learn Morse code." We need the exams, but maybe they are an artificial barrier? david KC1DNY On 12/13/2019 9:24 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, open-ended inquiry. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dhai...@bates.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
; are people like us who love radio and technology. I suspect that these people are our future if we don't run them off. And last... The real thing that drew me to ham radio was another ham, Russ Michaelson N7SM (SK 2019). Russ and I meet at the University of Utah's surplus store. Even though we had a 12 year age difference, Russ and I connected almost immediately and became lifelong friends. I was in Junior high school and Russ was beginning a family when we meet. From Russ I learned about more about radio and electronics, and we had many adventures in the process. I never remember Russ complaining about the ionosphere. He built a magnificent basement "shack". When he built his own 100 foot tower from scratch I climbed to the top to help set up and adjust antennas. (By then I was in my 20's, no child labor involved. :) If we expect this hobby to continue into the future, we need to be the "Russ" in someone else's life. We need to pass our love of radio to the next generation. Just expecting someone to "be" interested and on their way after the exam will never happen. Propagation will always change, we need to be the constant. 73 KA7FTP Len -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David Gilbert Sent: Friday, December 13, 2019 9:37 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth will ever look at amateur radio like we do. I wish that weren't the case, but reality bites. 1. The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to freely talk to faraway places. Young people today can do that with FM quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message groups and forums. 2. Communicating today is license free, and while even now with today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that you don't otherwise care about. 3. Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than for amateur radio, especially for long distances. 4. Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in the sunspot cycle. 5. A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping stone to a technical career. That is hardly the case today. In fact, I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much on the job. One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of competition. Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching football to quilting to barbeque. Young people today have video games that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that has similar elements. Ham radio contests are essentially endurance events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks or months later. Video games require different but otherwise comparable proficiency (both mental and physical) but involve real time counter moves to any opponent. The closest we hams come to offsetting somebody we view as competition is to steal their frequency or QRM them. I'm not at all suggesting that we do any suc h thing, but a contest where we could take some action that subtracted from somebody else's score is the kind of thing I'm talking about. And no, I don't know how to do that either, but it illustrates what I'm talking about. It's not any surprise to me that contesting is one of the few surviving ham radio activities with high participation. Even ragchewing has practically died out, and if anyone disputes that take a look at how much time you spend each week reading email reflectors versus being on the air (other than in a contest). I'm not really sure what Wayne was referring to here, and maybe he implied that same thing that I'm saying, but we aren't going to bring young folks into the hobby by trying to convince them that the same things that appealed to us 40 years ago are going to appeal to them. This isn't a communication or publicity problem. In spite of the comments from hams I've seen over the years, most young people pretty much know the general framework of ham radio and they've simply rejected it in favor of other things. There are always a few exceptions, of course, but I'd bet $100 that the bulk of those young people who pop up online or in QST as shining examples of young blood in the hobby are nowhere to be found two yea
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Hi Folks, Well, here is a young lady who has decided the Amateur Radio - and Contesting - is her hobby of choice. Violetta (Kat) Latham, KM4ATT, has been invited to speak at IDXC 2020 in Visalia, CA. Violetta lives in Greencastle, PA and is a 15-year old Amateur Extra. She’s raising funds for her trip to Visalia. Violetta has a nice QRZ.COM page at https://www.qrz.com/db/KM4ATT Violetta's image was chosen to be on the cover of the new ARRL publication Amateur Radio Contesting for Beginners. Here's a link to the image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyd0fqm8e484x87/KM4ATT%20Cover.docx?dl=0 I’ve known Violetta and her family for a few years, and she’s a very accomplished young Amateur. She likes contesting and being the DX in contests, too. She’s quite excited about some South American DX she’s worked recently. Violetta has established a GoFundMe page to raise money for her trip to Visalia here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-a-young-speaker-travel-to-dx-convention-2020?utm_source=customer_medium=copy_link_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet Here's a very direct and practical way to reach across the chronological divide. I’ve contributed, and I hope you will consider contributing as well. Thank you. - 73 and good DX de Mike, K6MKF, NCDXC Secretary > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 08:12 > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide > > There are many ways to get enjoyment from Ham Radio, long distance contacts > being just one of them. I am a DXer and Contester by heart as that is what I > was > exposed to as a young ham. I never got into the rag chewing. I had a sched > with > my Grandfather weekly yet we still still talked just as much on the > telephone. People stay involved in hobbies that are fun. It has gotten > increasingly more difficult to find homes that allow ham activities, ie > towers and > outside antennas. The entry cost can be high. I am curious to see if Remote > is > going to bring in any new folks. It is keeping older ones active that desire > to > move to assisted living or smaller more easily maintained homes. Contesting > could probably be bigger than it is now but there is nothing close to level > playing > field which you can find with online games or Esports. The guy with the most > bucks and best location is going to have a huge advantage. We in the west > can't > compete with the east coast that can run EU all day long in most DX > contests. Domestic contests are different but look who consistently wins. > These > are big stations. > > I am also involved with 3D printing as a hobby as I play table top games and I > build terrain, walls, trees, miniatures. This hobby is booming and is filled > with > young and old alike. Entry is about 200 bucks and requires a bit of space on > a > desk. Same mind set for many as there is a lot to learn about the printing > process to setup and make good prints. It is not a plug in and go hobby. > > Young people would rather binge watch shows on their phone or tv instead of > actually meeting people. > > I think there could be a draw but what I find is many hams don't want more > hams. They want exclusivity and for some don't really want competition as > someone else might win their paper or wooden plaque. People want the stuff > and want to win and want the accolades but would prefer to do it without > competition. I know a person that is part of horse club that my XYL and > daughter > are part of. She used to always win a saddle because she was the only one > that > would enter that class, which required you compete in 3 classes. She got mad > when the club removed that class and started giving saddles away for the > individual classes. Her comment, well I can't beat...so and so.. > so I just > won't compete anymore.Many competitors do it only for fun and themselves > and know they have little chance to win. This is very similar to ham radio > contesting where most are really just participants and not serious > competitors. > > I am not sure how you sell Ham Radio to people today. I have two sons and a > daughter. One son got licensed really young and did some contests and mobile > activities with me but never got hooked like I did. People have less free > time > than ever and there are more options for entertainment than ever. > > W0MU > > On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: > > > > This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, > > but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth > > will ever look at amateur radio like we do. I w
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
There are many ways to get enjoyment from Ham Radio, long distance contacts being just one of them. I am a DXer and Contester by heart as that is what I was exposed to as a young ham. I never got into the rag chewing. I had a sched with my Grandfather weekly yet we still still talked just as much on the telephone. People stay involved in hobbies that are fun. It has gotten increasingly more difficult to find homes that allow ham activities, ie towers and outside antennas. The entry cost can be high. I am curious to see if Remote is going to bring in any new folks. It is keeping older ones active that desire to move to assisted living or smaller more easily maintained homes. Contesting could probably be bigger than it is now but there is nothing close to level playing field which you can find with online games or Esports. The guy with the most bucks and best location is going to have a huge advantage. We in the west can't compete with the east coast that can run EU all day long in most DX contests. Domestic contests are different but look who consistently wins. These are big stations. I am also involved with 3D printing as a hobby as I play table top games and I build terrain, walls, trees, miniatures. This hobby is booming and is filled with young and old alike. Entry is about 200 bucks and requires a bit of space on a desk. Same mind set for many as there is a lot to learn about the printing process to setup and make good prints. It is not a plug in and go hobby. Young people would rather binge watch shows on their phone or tv instead of actually meeting people. I think there could be a draw but what I find is many hams don't want more hams. They want exclusivity and for some don't really want competition as someone else might win their paper or wooden plaque. People want the stuff and want to win and want the accolades but would prefer to do it without competition. I know a person that is part of horse club that my XYL and daughter are part of. She used to always win a saddle because she was the only one that would enter that class, which required you compete in 3 classes. She got mad when the club removed that class and started giving saddles away for the individual classes. Her comment, well I can't beat...so and so.. so I just won't compete anymore. Many competitors do it only for fun and themselves and know they have little chance to win. This is very similar to ham radio contesting where most are really just participants and not serious competitors. I am not sure how you sell Ham Radio to people today. I have two sons and a daughter. One son got licensed really young and did some contests and mobile activities with me but never got hooked like I did. People have less free time than ever and there are more options for entertainment than ever. W0MU On 12/13/2019 9:36 PM, David Gilbert wrote: This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth will ever look at amateur radio like we do. I wish that weren't the case, but reality bites. 1. The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to freely talk to faraway places. Young people today can do that with FM quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message groups and forums. 2. Communicating today is license free, and while even now with today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that you don't otherwise care about. 3. Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than for amateur radio, especially for long distances. 4. Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in the sunspot cycle. 5. A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping stone to a technical career. That is hardly the case today. In fact, I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much on the job. One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of competition. Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching football to quilting to barbeque. Young people today have video games that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that has similar elements. Ham radio contests are essentially endurance events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks or months later. Video games require different but otherwise comparable proficiency (both mental and physical) but involve real time counter moves
Re: [Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
This of course is a discussion that isn't likely to die before we do, but I really don't think that any significant portion of today's youth will ever look at amateur radio like we do. I wish that weren't the case, but reality bites. 1. The major lure of amateur radio for most of us was the ability to freely talk to faraway places. Young people today can do that with FM quality and yet often they don't ... they text or chat via message groups and forums. 2. Communicating today is license free, and while even now with today's lesser requirements getting an amateur radio license is maybe not a roadblock it's a nuisance to have to study for something that you don't otherwise care about. 3. Effectively communicating today is far cheaper hardware-wise than for amateur radio, especially for long distances. 4. Communicating today is independent of time of day or position in the sunspot cycle. 5. A basic competency in amateur radio was once considered a stepping stone to a technical career. That is hardly the case today. In fact, I remember one manager of a test department in another company telling me he tried to avoid hiring hams because they talked about it too much on the job. One thing I do believe has carryover appeal is the spirit of competition. Humans in general always seem keen to compete at almost anything ... from eating hot dogs to running to vicariously watching football to quilting to barbeque. Young people today have video games that provide a FAR richer competitive environment than any ham radio contest (I do both, by the way), and I've always thought that one way to drum up interest in ham radio is to develop a contest format that has similar elements. Ham radio contests are essentially endurance events that involve independent action throughout the contest with the comparison occurring at the end, and often weeks or months later. Video games require different but otherwise comparable proficiency (both mental and physical) but involve real time counter moves to any opponent. The closest we hams come to offsetting somebody we view as competition is to steal their frequency or QRM them. I'm not at all suggesting that we do any such thing, but a contest where we could take some action that subtracted from somebody else's score is the kind of thing I'm talking about. And no, I don't know how to do that either, but it illustrates what I'm talking about. It's not any surprise to me that contesting is one of the few surviving ham radio activities with high participation. Even ragchewing has practically died out, and if anyone disputes that take a look at how much time you spend each week reading email reflectors versus being on the air (other than in a contest). I'm not really sure what Wayne was referring to here, and maybe he implied that same thing that I'm saying, but we aren't going to bring young folks into the hobby by trying to convince them that the same things that appealed to us 40 years ago are going to appeal to them. This isn't a communication or publicity problem. In spite of the comments from hams I've seen over the years, most young people pretty much know the general framework of ham radio and they've simply rejected it in favor of other things. There are always a few exceptions, of course, but I'd bet $100 that the bulk of those young people who pop up online or in QST as shining examples of young blood in the hobby are nowhere to be found two years later. If for any reason we want young folks to embrace the hobby, the hobby itself is going to have to adapt. That most of us seem unable to understand that fact is probably another facet of the problem ... we're old and inflexible (in both appearance and in fact), which doesn't help the image of the hobby one wit. The pictures from Dayton or any other hamfest have the same appeal as if they were taken at a Lawrence Welk concert. I guarantee that those of us who are still above ground five years from now will be having this same discussion, and it won't be because we weren't persuasive enough. 73, Dave AB7E On 12/13/2019 7:24 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our
[Elecraft] Reaching across the chronological divide
Hams of a certain age, including yours truly (first licensed in 1971) recall their excitement on joining the hobby: there was the promise of contact with faraway places, collection of vivid QSL cards, mastery of esoteric equipment, synchrony with the rhythms of Morse code, and the crafting of antennas to harness action at a distance. Most of us still feel that spark, occasionally--some on a daily basis--experiencing the wonder all over again. While the accoutrements and equipage of youth have evolved over the decades, their DNA has not. Somewhere, nestled between the genetic codes for half-pipe snowboarding, Instagram, Juul, and ambient house, there's a dormant sequence for the Radio Art waiting to be stirred. Is there a Battle Royale for ham radio? A tactical RPG? What is our sorcerer's stone? Our rap? Will Gen-Z or Gen-Alpha tickle the ionosphere, and if so...why? To hand our batons across the chronological divide, we'll need empathetic, open-ended inquiry. 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
