Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Michael Babineau]

Dave : 

Thanks for asking this question.  As a K2 owner with the KAF2 installed, I have 
also often wondered what I am missing out on
by not having the KDSP2 installed instead.  From the responses to your 
question, the consensus seems to be that it is well worth the upgrade 
if you primarily operate SSB but maybe not so much if you are primarily a CW 
operator.  I personally really like the KAF2 for CW. 

On a related note, it occurred to me that the K2 has been in production for 
almost 20 years !  Wow !   I think that this is a testament
to the incredible job that Wayne and Eric did in designing the rig, then 
working at over the years to continuously improve it.  What other Amateur radio
can you think of that is still in production after 17 years ?  It was an 
awesome rig in 1998 and it is still an amazing performer for its price today.

Cheers

Michael VE3WMB 
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[lmarion]

My experience/thoughts as well Phil. I still have a lot of fun with
K2 SN 40.  But since I got the KX3, I have made the K2 with transverter
my  6m  rig .

I have all options including the DSP and I like it.

Leroy AB7CE

-Original Message- 
From: Phil Wheeler

Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:14 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

Yes and the K2 is still a very competitive rig,
even after 16 years, Michael!  I now have the K3
and a KX3, but given all the TLC that I put into
building the original (#380) K2 and all the later
add-ins/ons, I plan to keep it.

I much preferred the KDSP2 to the KAF2 so had no
second thoughts about doing the replacement, but
then I operate both CW and SSB. Adding the SSB
option to the K2 sort of sucked me into operating
more SSB :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 11/5/15 9:34 AM, Michael Babineau wrote:

Dave :

Thanks for asking this question. 


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Phil Wheeler]

Yes and the K2 is still a very competitive rig, 
even after 16 years, Michael!  I now have the K3 
and a KX3, but given all the TLC that I put into 
building the original (#380) K2 and all the later 
add-ins/ons, I plan to keep it.


I much preferred the KDSP2 to the KAF2 so had no 
second thoughts about doing the replacement, but 
then I operate both CW and SSB. Adding the SSB 
option to the K2 sort of sucked me into operating 
more SSB :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 11/5/15 9:34 AM, Michael Babineau wrote:

Dave :

Thanks for asking this question.  As a K2 owner with the KAF2 installed, I have 
also often wondered what I am missing out on
by not having the KDSP2 installed instead.  From the responses to your 
question, the consensus seems to be that it is well worth the upgrade
if you primarily operate SSB but maybe not so much if you are primarily a CW 
operator.  I personally really like the KAF2 for CW.

On a related note, it occurred to me that the K2 has been in production for 
almost 20 years !  Wow !   I think that this is a testament
to the incredible job that Wayne and Eric did in designing the rig, then 
working at over the years to continuously improve it.  What other Amateur radio
can you think of that is still in production after 17 years ?  It was an 
awesome rig in 1998 and it is still an amazing performer for its price today.

Cheers

Michael VE3WMB


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

The KAF2 is mainly for CW use.  It provides a great peaking filter at 
the frequency that you have set it to (presumably your sidetone pitch).
It also has a low pass filter that is in-circuit at all times.  That can 
reduce band noise hiss for all modes.


The KDSP2 also provides filtering for CW, SSB and data modes.  If you 
are bothered by signals nearby in frequency, the straight-sided filters 
of the KDSP2 will be an advantage.


The KDSP2 also provides noise reduction algorithms, although turning on 
NR in any transceiver can introduce distortion for voice signals.  How 
bad that is will be determined by the aggressiveness of the algorithms.  
The KDSP2 does allow a wide range of settings, and you may have to 
experiment with those setting if the defaults do not satisfactorily 
handle your particular noise situation.


So, not directly answering your question, the KDSP2 can provide 
filtering as good as the KAF2 (even better), but if the operator is CW 
oriented, the additional cost of the KDSP2 option may not provide the 
improvement expected - for SSB operation, there is no choice, the KAF2 
is not useful on SSB (other than the Low Pass Filter) and the KDSP2 is 
the only real choice between the two.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/4/2015 6:44 PM, David Inger wrote:

A friend has a fairly recent K2 with the KAF2 audio filter option.  He asked
me to remove the KAF2, build the KDSP2 board and install it in his K2.  This
got me to thinking:  I also have a K2 wiht the KAF2 installed.  My friend
works mainly SSB; I work main CW and digital modes.  Is the DSP board a
significant improvement over the bare K2 or even with the KAF2 installed
(which seems to be tailored for CW reception)?  In general, radios  that I
have owned with AF DSP have been pretty much a disappointment.  So is the
KDSP2 a worthwhile and cost-effective upgrade?
  



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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Matt Maguire]

When I built my K2 a year and a half ago, I also had to decide between bare K2 
vs KAF2 vs KDSP2, and went through the archives. In the end I went with the 
KDSP2, but some of the points I considered along the way:

Bare K2:
- built-in IF filters do work very well, but I read some reports that strong 
stations nearby can produce some « blow-by », and that either the KAF2 or KDSP2 
can help clean it up.
- At some point, Elecraft may cease production of the K2, and if I leave my K2 
bare, I may not get the chance to upgrade it later.

KAF2:
- cheap, very easy to use
- for CW, reports seem to indicate it performs about the same as the KDSP2
- has a nice LPF stage that cuts down background hiss, seems to be better than 
the KDSP2 in this regard. Some people have added a KAF2-style LPF to their 
KDSP2 with good results.

KDSP2:
- much more configurable than KAF2
- has noise reduction feature, I thought this might come in handy if I have the 
K2 as a second radio, and have it sitting on my club’s SSB calling frequency. 
It does keep the radio very quiet, almost like a voice squelch.
- also has automatic notch filter, in case I need it
- can go very narrow. I had good experiences with the DSP filtering in my KX3, 
which was really effective in digging out some very weak sigs on our QRP net 
(although so far I have mainly used the K2 for rag chewing, haven’t really done 
any side-by-side comparisons with KX3)
- Code for the DSP is open source, so might be fun to play with. However, I 
think the development kits are now out of production, and I think maybe the 
chip in my KDSP2 was not in a socket, but soldered directly to the board 
(someone correct me if I am wrong). So, there are some barriers to playing with 
the DSP code, and if I wanted to experiment in DSP techniques, a much easier 
way would probably be to use a generic PC with sound card and GNUradio or 
similar development environment.
- KDSP2 chews a lot more power than KAF2, which may be an issue if you like to 
run off batteries. You can disable the KDSP2 through the menu, which 
significantly reduces but doesn’t eliminate the additional power draw. If you 
power-cycle the K2, the disable setting of the KDSP2 is forgotten, and the 
KDSP2 will become active again.
- the KDSP2 is a lot more complicated to use than KAF2. This means you have 
more flexibility, and some people like having lots of settings to play with, so 
it can be a plus. But it can also be a minus as it can be hard to remember how 
to change some of the less commonly adjusted settings. Having said that, the 
defaults on the KDSP2 are usually fine. 

So, is the KDSP2 a worthwhile upgrade? For your SSB friend, I would say yes. 
For a primarily CW operator like yourself who already has a KAF2, it might be 
harder to justify. Is the upgrade cost-effective? Well, the KDSP2 is 
significantly more expensive than the KAF2, and it is a personal choice whether 
the extra value/fun brought by the KDSP2’s additional features warrants the 
additional cost. After all, it is a hobby :-)

-- 
73 de Matt VK2RQ

On 5 novembre 2015 at 10:44:52 AM, David Inger (ingerassocia...@cox.net) wrote:

A friend has a fairly recent K2 with the KAF2 audio filter option. He asked  
me to remove the KAF2, build the KDSP2 board and install it in his K2. This  
got me to thinking: I also have a K2 wiht the KAF2 installed. My friend  
works mainly SSB; I work main CW and digital modes. Is the DSP board a  
significant improvement over the bare K2 or even with the KAF2 installed  
(which seems to be tailored for CW reception)? In general, radios that I  
have owned with AF DSP have been pretty much a disappointment. So is the  
KDSP2 a worthwhile and cost-effective upgrade?  

73 de K6SBA  
David in Santa Barbara, CA  
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[James Bennett]

David, 

My K2 is long gone, but I can tell you about my experience with the DSP module. 
I operate mainly CW, and added the DSP option after having the K2 for over a 
year. For me, it was a mistake. The radio didn't sound as good as it did before 
adding it. I wound up taking it out and selling the board. 

Maybe it was me, maybe I didn't have something set right, but whatever it was, 
if I owned a K2 today there is no way I'd put that option in it. Just my two 
centavos...

Jim / W6JHB




> On Nov 4, 2015, at 15:44, David Inger  wrote:
> 
> A friend has a fairly recent K2 with the KAF2 audio filter option.  He asked
> me to remove the KAF2, build the KDSP2 board and install it in his K2.  This
> got me to thinking:  I also have a K2 wiht the KAF2 installed.  My friend
> works mainly SSB; I work main CW and digital modes.  Is the DSP board a
> significant improvement over the bare K2 or even with the KAF2 installed
> (which seems to be tailored for CW reception)?  In general, radios  that I
> have owned with AF DSP have been pretty much a disappointment.  So is the
> KDSP2 a worthwhile and cost-effective upgrade?
> 
> 73 de K6SBA
> David in Santa Barbara, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Phil Wheeler]

I thought it was. A bit complicated to get 
adjusted just right, but there is/was a how-to doc 
at the Elecraft website which you might want to 
read, David.


I say "thought" because now I use my K3 and KX3, 
though I still have my all-up K2; it's a keeper at 
this point.


73, Phil W7OX (in Torrance).

On 11/4/15 3:44 PM, David Inger wrote:

A friend has a fairly recent K2 with the KAF2 audio filter option.  He asked
me to remove the KAF2, build the KDSP2 board and install it in his K2.  This
got me to thinking:  I also have a K2 wiht the KAF2 installed.  My friend
works mainly SSB; I work main CW and digital modes.  Is the DSP board a
significant improvement over the bare K2 or even with the KAF2 installed
(which seems to be tailored for CW reception)?  In general, radios  that I
have owned with AF DSP have been pretty much a disappointment.  So is the
KDSP2 a worthwhile and cost-effective upgrade?
  
73 de K6SBA

David in Santa Barbara, CA


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Sverre Holm (LA3ZA)]

I would not have upgraded to the KDSP2. Not for the performance, because
although I'm mainly a CW operator, I could probably benefit from it.

My main objection to the KDSP2 is user interface. The K2 was not designed
for the KDSP2 in the first place as can be seen in how complicated it is to
set up and operate compared to the other K2 modules. Given the few buttons
of the K2, the user interface for the KDSP2 is probably as good as it can
be, but still it is so much harder to use than the other options. The
otherwise well thought-out user interface of the K2 is made unncessary
complicated by the KDSP2 with all its features.

This can be read indirectly from the history of Elecraft here:
http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/history/

Quote: 
"A major milestone in our history was the KDSP2 option for the K2. Lyle
Johnson, KK7P, became known to us *after* he had mostly completed this
highly versatile DSP unit. He reverse-engineered the auxBus protocol and
made the KDSP2 behave as if it were a KAF2, which plugged into the same
spot. He showed it to us, and we immediately adopted both the product and
Lyle himself."





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K2-Question-Is-the-DSP-Board-a-Worthwhile-upgrade-tp7609953p7609972.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 Question: Is the DSP Board a Worthwhile upgrade?

[Phil Wheeler]

Definitely true re user interface.  But if you get 
it set up in a way that works well for you, then 
not much need to tweak.


I don't often change settings in my K3 DSP either.

73, Phil W7OX

On 11/4/15 7:35 PM, Sverre Holm (LA3ZA) wrote:

I would not have upgraded to the KDSP2. Not for the performance, because
although I'm mainly a CW operator, I could probably benefit from it.

My main objection to the KDSP2 is user interface. The K2 was not designed
for the KDSP2 in the first place as can be seen in how complicated it is to
set up and operate compared to the other K2 modules. Given the few buttons
of the K2, the user interface for the KDSP2 is probably as good as it can
be, but still it is so much harder to use than the other options. The
otherwise well thought-out user interface of the K2 is made unncessary
complicated by the KDSP2 with all its features.

This can be read indirectly from the history of Elecraft here:
http://udel.edu/~mm/ham/elecraft/history/

Quote:
"A major milestone in our history was the KDSP2 option for the K2. Lyle
Johnson, KK7P, became known to us *after* he had mostly completed this
highly versatile DSP unit. He reverse-engineered the auxBus protocol and
made the KDSP2 behave as if it were a KAF2, which plugged into the same
spot. He showed it to us, and we immediately adopted both the product and
Lyle himself."





-
Sverre, LA3ZA

K2 #2198, K3 #3391,
LA3ZA Blog: http://la3za.blogspot.com,
LA3ZA Unofficial Guide to K2 modifications: 
http://la3za.blogspot.com/p/la3za-unofficial-guide-to-elecraft-k2.html


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