RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
Hi, Yes. Triple checked. Ned Devine Program Manager Entela, Inc. 3033 Madison Ave. SE Grand Rapids, MI 49548 1 616 248 9671 Phone 1 616 574 9752 Fax ndev...@entela.com e-mail Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business www.entela.com -Original Message- From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Are you sure about the IEC 60521 reference? IEC 60521 (1988-03) Class 0.5, 1 and 2 alternating-current watthour meters Applies only to newly manufactured induction type watt-hour meters of accuracy classes 0.5, 1 and 2, for the measurement of alternating current electrical active energy of a frequency in the range 45 Hz to 65 Hz and to their type tests only. This publication supersedes IEC 60043 (1960), 60170 (1964) and 60280 (1968). Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:55:57 -0400, Ned Devine ndev...@entela.com wrote: I can help much, but, for this paragraph, the rationale at the back of the standard states that Annex AAA of the Collateral Standard IEC 60601-1-2 states that the limits and methodology are under consideration by technical committee 77. This Particular Standard, however, refers for the time being to IEC 60521 in which 400 A/m is required. For the Second Edition of IEC 60601-1-2, Clause 36.202.8.1, the limit is 3 A/m. Ned Devine Program Manager Entela, Inc. 3033 Madison Ave. SE Grand Rapids, MI 49548 1 616 248 9671 Phone 1 616 574 9752 Fax ndev...@entela.com e-mail Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business www.entela.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 3:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi all, A colleague was checking the IEC 60601-2-24:98 and found the Magnetic Field Req't (paragraph 36.202.6) far too high: 400 Ampere-per-meter! I'd like to check this requirement for its correctness or history with backgrounds for such a demand. I know that 3A/m, 10A/m and 30A/m are often used, but 400A/m . Can anybody help? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway PS: IEC 60601-2-24:98 - Medical electrical equipment - Part 2-24: Particular requirements for the safety of infusion pumps and controllers --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
I can imagine that it is a perfectly reasonable requirement that electricity meters be required to operate correctly when subjected to high magnetic fields, to overcome any likely fraud attempts by enterprising consumers with permanent magnets, trying to reduce their electricity bills. I suspect that is the reason for the requirement in IEC 60521. Regards, John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Discovery Centre, 3 Fulton Road, Dundee, Scotland, DD2 4SW E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. -Original Message- From: plaw...@west.net [mailto:plaw...@west.net] Sent: 02 May 2002 16:24 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Are you sure about the IEC 60521 reference? IEC 60521 (1988-03) Class 0.5, 1 and 2 alternating-current watthour meters Applies only to newly manufactured induction type watt-hour meters of accuracy classes 0.5, 1 and 2, for the measurement of alternating current electrical active energy of a frequency in the range 45 Hz to 65 Hz and to their type tests only. This publication supersedes IEC 60043 (1960), 60170 (1964) and 60280 (1968). Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:55:57 -0400, Ned Devine ndev...@entela.com wrote: I can help much, but, for this paragraph, the rationale at the back of the standard states that Annex AAA of the Collateral Standard IEC 60601-1-2 states that the limits and methodology are under consideration by technical committee 77. This Particular Standard, however, refers for the time being to IEC 60521 in which 400 A/m is required. For the Second Edition of IEC 60601-1-2, Clause 36.202.8.1, the limit is 3 A/m. Ned Devine Program Manager Entela, Inc. 3033 Madison Ave. SE Grand Rapids, MI 49548 1 616 248 9671 Phone 1 616 574 9752 Fax ndev...@entela.com e-mail Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business www.entela.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 3:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi all, A colleague was checking the IEC 60601-2-24:98 and found the Magnetic Field Req't (paragraph 36.202.6) far too high: 400 Ampere-per-meter! I'd like to check this requirement for its correctness or history with backgrounds for such a demand. I know that 3A/m, 10A/m and 30A/m are often used, but 400A/m . Can anybody help? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway PS: IEC 60601-2-24:98 - Medical electrical equipment - Part 2-24: Particular requirements for the safety of infusion pumps and controllers --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
Are you sure about the IEC 60521 reference? IEC 60521 (1988-03) Class 0.5, 1 and 2 alternating-current watthour meters Applies only to newly manufactured induction type watt-hour meters of accuracy classes 0.5, 1 and 2, for the measurement of alternating current electrical active energy of a frequency in the range 45 Hz to 65 Hz and to their type tests only. This publication supersedes IEC 60043 (1960), 60170 (1964) and 60280 (1968). Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:55:57 -0400, Ned Devine ndev...@entela.com wrote: I can help much, but, for this paragraph, the rationale at the back of the standard states that Annex AAA of the Collateral Standard IEC 60601-1-2 states that the limits and methodology are under consideration by technical committee 77. This Particular Standard, however, refers for the time being to IEC 60521 in which 400 A/m is required. For the Second Edition of IEC 60601-1-2, Clause 36.202.8.1, the limit is 3 A/m. Ned Devine Program Manager Entela, Inc. 3033 Madison Ave. SE Grand Rapids, MI 49548 1 616 248 9671 Phone 1 616 574 9752 Fax ndev...@entela.com e-mail Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business www.entela.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 3:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi all, A colleague was checking the IEC 60601-2-24:98 and found the Magnetic Field Req't (paragraph 36.202.6) far too high: 400 Ampere-per-meter! I'd like to check this requirement for its correctness or history with backgrounds for such a demand. I know that 3A/m, 10A/m and 30A/m are often used, but 400A/m . Can anybody help? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway PS: IEC 60601-2-24:98 - Medical electrical equipment - Part 2-24: Particular requirements for the safety of infusion pumps and controllers --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
I'm no medical Guru either but I know the sort of field levels involved. They range from about .5 to 3 teslas. This is not much higher than the fields in the gaps of electrical motors and generators (up to 1.8T in normal silicon iron and up to 2.1 T in cobalt iron used in aerospace machines) The difference is the length of the effective magnetic dipole. The field in an MRI machine is almost constant across the whole bore of the machine and for whole body machines this gives a dipole length of a metre or more. You are still in the near field up to a couple of dipole lengths before the field strength starts drooping as the inverse cube of the distance. Thus it is quite possible to have fields up 1T a metre or more from the machine this corresponds to an H field of 790 kA/m and this is sufficient to lift large ferromagnetic objects. The dipole length in a normal electrical machine is about the size of the air gap, about 1mm or less. Thus there are very strong magnetic fields only out to a few centimetres. I don't know if this is the reasoning behind the field values in IEC 60601-2-24 but if it is the levels do not seem unreasonable. Nick Rouse . - Original Message - From: Chris Maxwell chris.maxw...@nettest.com To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:22 PM Subject: RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi Amund, I read your email (below). I'm no medical device expert; but I'm wondering if the magnetic strength limit was set so high due to MRI (Magnetic Resnonance Imaging) devices. My understanding is that MRI devices produce HUGE magnetic field levels. According to a recent newspaper story that I read, these fields are strong enough to draw a metal oxygen tank across the room to the MRI machine. Is there any chance that the device in question could be used around an MRI? It would be a real bummer if someone's infusion pump suddenly changed its run rate due to a nearby magnetic field. Could that be what the standard is safeguarding against? Any medical device gurus care to comment? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
Hi Amund, I read your email (below). I'm no medical device expert; but I'm wondering if the magnetic strength limit was set so high due to MRI (Magnetic Resnonance Imaging) devices. My understanding is that MRI devices produce HUGE magnetic field levels. According to a recent newspaper story that I read, these fields are strong enough to draw a metal oxygen tank across the room to the MRI machine. Is there any chance that the device in question could be used around an MRI? It would be a real bummer if someone's infusion pump suddenly changed its run rate due to a nearby magnetic field. Could that be what the standard is safeguarding against? Any medical device gurus care to comment? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 3:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi all, A colleague was checking the IEC 60601-2-24:98 and found the Magnetic Field Req't (paragraph 36.202.6) far too high: 400 Ampere-per-meter! I'd like to check this requirement for its correctness or history with backgrounds for such a demand. I know that 3A/m, 10A/m and 30A/m are often used, but 400A/m . Can anybody help? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway PS: IEC 60601-2-24:98 - Medical electrical equipment - Part 2-24: Particular requirements for the safety of infusion pumps and controllers --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field
Hi, I can help much, but, for this paragraph, the rationale at the back of the standard states that Annex AAA of the Collateral Standard IEC 60601-1-2 states that the limits and methodology are under consideration by technical committee 77. This Particular Standard, however, refers for the time being to IEC 60521 in which 400 A/m is required. For the Second Edition of IEC 60601-1-2, Clause 36.202.8.1, the limit is 3 A/m. Ned Devine Program Manager Entela, Inc. 3033 Madison Ave. SE Grand Rapids, MI 49548 1 616 248 9671 Phone 1 616 574 9752 Fax ndev...@entela.com e-mail Entela, Inc. A Certified Woman Owned Business www.entela.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 3:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: IEC 60601-2-24 / Magnetic Field Hi all, A colleague was checking the IEC 60601-2-24:98 and found the Magnetic Field Req't (paragraph 36.202.6) far too high: 400 Ampere-per-meter! I'd like to check this requirement for its correctness or history with backgrounds for such a demand. I know that 3A/m, 10A/m and 30A/m are often used, but 400A/m . Can anybody help? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway PS: IEC 60601-2-24:98 - Medical electrical equipment - Part 2-24: Particular requirements for the safety of infusion pumps and controllers --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
