Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread John Alexander Stewart
Ben, Riccardo;

Maybe I have to re-think this issue on my G540.  Been off doing other
things recently, so no more work done on my mill.

Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert the
step outputs?

Q2: What timing parameters are you using? (steplen, stepspace, dirhold,
dirsetup)

Thank you - JohnS
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread Bryce Johnson
I had had similiar issues quite awhile back.  Looking at my my ini. I have
DIRSETUP = 400
DIRHOLD = 400
STEPLEN = 5000
STEPSPACE = 5000


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 8:29 AM, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Ben, Riccardo;

 Maybe I have to re-think this issue on my G540.  Been off doing other
 things recently, so no more work done on my mill.

 Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert the
 step outputs?

 Q2: What timing parameters are you using? (steplen, stepspace, dirhold,
 dirsetup)

 Thank you - JohnS

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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread Bryce Johnson
My old thread:

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/38373


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Bryce Johnson sie...@gmail.com wrote:

 I had had similiar issues quite awhile back.  Looking at my my ini. I have
 DIRSETUP = 400
 DIRHOLD = 400
 STEPLEN = 5000
 STEPSPACE = 5000


 On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 8:29 AM, John Alexander Stewart 
 ivatt...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ben, Riccardo;

 Maybe I have to re-think this issue on my G540.  Been off doing other
 things recently, so no more work done on my mill.

 Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert the
 step outputs?

 Q2: What timing parameters are you using? (steplen, stepspace, dirhold,
 dirsetup)

 Thank you - JohnS

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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread Gene Heskett
On Friday 22 August 2014 09:29:21 John Alexander Stewart did opine
And Gene did reply:
 Ben, Riccardo;
 
 Maybe I have to re-think this issue on my G540.  Been off doing other
 things recently, so no more work done on my mill.
 
 Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert
 the step outputs?

If you have mentioned your interface method, I have forgotten it, so its 
possible there is a better way than below.
 
One of the easiest ways, if your G540 brings out both ends of the opto's 
led, is to swap the two opto's leads around at the + and - terminals.
I can do that with my 2M542's also, but no idea unless its in the data on 
the g540 on the Gecko web pages.

I do not know enough about the G540 to know if they do make both ends of 
the opto's leds available. I just downloaded the manual, and cannot find 
anything to indicate that it is possible to self invert the signals.

This also depends on the output power of your BOB, BreakOut Board.  The 
board I have used twice now is the cnc4pc C1G, which can sink or source 24 
milli-amps, more than enough to drive an opto.  It can also do a polarity 
swap on a more global basis by selecting whether the com pins are at 
ground or at the 5 volt rail, which would select the active polarity, but 
does it for several of the com pins together, inverting things more 
wholesale if you need a lot of its control inverted. But again, this 
demands that the opto's being driven have both the + and - terminals 
exposed for your use.

Some of the Mesa cards such as the 5i25 can be programmed in your .hal 
file so that the output is inverted, and I have done that on two of its 
stepgen modules because the dir output was backwards.  I also could have 
done this by interchanging the wires to the dir opto in my 2M542's, but 
that would have required wiring up individual - terminals, which I did not 
do when I assembled that box originally.

I don't know if anyone is making a by the line invertor but I could see 
a market for a few of them. A card with 4 each 4 wide xor CMOS IC's would 
allow any line of 24 to be inverted individually, doubly useful for you if 
rigged to db25's on both sides.  UNK if anyone is making it though...

 Q2: What timing parameters are you using? (steplen, stepspace, dirhold,
 dirsetup)

The gecko g540 pdf says 2000ns for steplen and stepspace, and 200ns for 
dirsetup  dirhold.  Those latter 2 sound a bit short to me, but thats 
just an old CET's opinion.

There is a page in the wiki that gives recommended times for quite a 
lengthy list of drivers, see wiki.linuxcnc.org if you have not already.

 
 Thank you - JohnS
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 August 2014 14:29, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert the
 step outputs?

With software step generation you either tick the invert box in
stepconf, or add a line to the HAL. (
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/parallel_port.html#_parameters )
With a Mesa board you set the invert_output parameter on the GPIO pin
that corresponds to the stepgen step line:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#General Purpose
I/O




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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-22 Thread Ben Potter
From: John Alexander Stewart 
Sent: 22 August 2014 14:29
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

 Ben, Riccardo;

 Maybe I have to re-think this issue on my G540.  Been off doing other
things recently, so no more work done on my mill.

 Q: no documents close by, so maybe a dumb question. How did you invert
the step outputs?

Andy has got in before me - but:
setp   hm2_5i25.0.gpio.xxx.invert_output true

where xxx is the pin number for the stepgen step output.

 Q2: What timing parameters are you using? (steplen, stepspace, dirhold,
dirsetup)

2000, 2000, 700, 700 - these are probably a bit higher than is actually
needed - but allow a high enough step rate for my machine.

Good luck.
Ben


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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-21 Thread Ricardo Moscoloni
Couldnt agree more with Ben Potter comment about inverting stepgen
signals . I pull my hair out trying to debug this, hundreds of test
later i came to the same conclusion. The problem was on one axis only
in mine too..
regards
rick




2014-08-10 18:51 GMT-03:00 Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org:
 Very late to this discussion. I had this problem about a month back, with an
 incredible amount of frustration.

 In the end I found that on my G540 I had to invert the stepgen output. When
 inverted, no problems, when noninverted - one axis only would slowly slip
 regardless of step timings.

 I'm stuffed if I know _why_ inverting the step output would affect the
 drives behaviour to this degree - but if all else fails...


 -Original Message-
 From: John Alexander Stewart [mailto:ivatt...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 10 August 2014 22:21
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

 Yes! Success!

 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE setp
 hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen 2500 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.stepspace 2500
 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirhold 2500 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup
 2500

 worked, no axis slip over a 4 hour test.

 I think I'll set everything up with even more time, and call it a day (or,
 4 weekend days, to tell you how long I've been looking at this)

 Thanks all!
 
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-21 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 21 August 2014 10:56:33 Ricardo Moscoloni did opine
And Gene did reply:
 Couldnt agree more with Ben Potter comment about inverting stepgen
 signals . I pull my hair out trying to debug this, hundreds of test
 later i came to the same conclusion. The problem was on one axis only
 in mine too..
 regards
 rick

Just to clarify this in my own wet ram, I am used to seeing, for a slow 
speed command, a narrow positive pulse at my BOB's output on an external 
oscilloscope.

However, with the 2m542 drivers, I could use either polarity as the BOB 
can drive both ways, and the 2m542 input is independent  therefore 
reversible, so the drive would not be aware of the difference.  I don't 
know anything about the G540's, do they bring out both ends of the opto?  
If they do, the same trick should work for them.

I suspect, from the conversations I've copied here, that the gecko drives 
only accept a direction change in the between steps state.  And if the 
step polarity is wrong, the dirhold and dirsetup constraints are probably 
being violated.  If micro-stepping, its not going to be very much per 
direction reversal and would take a while for the error to be noticeable.

But there it is.  One way to possibly check this is to setup a dial on the 
axis, and let the stepgen configuration run it back and forth 20 thou at a 
speed that won't kill the indicator gears and see if the dial stops at the 
same place over an extended period of time.

 2014-08-10 18:51 GMT-03:00 Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org:
  Very late to this discussion. I had this problem about a month back,
  with an incredible amount of frustration.
  
  In the end I found that on my G540 I had to invert the stepgen
  output. When inverted, no problems, when noninverted - one axis only
  would slowly slip regardless of step timings.
  
  I'm stuffed if I know _why_ inverting the step output would affect
  the drives behaviour to this degree - but if all else fails...
  
  
  -Original Message-
  From: John Alexander Stewart [mailto:ivatt...@gmail.com]
  Sent: 10 August 2014 22:21
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.
  
  Yes! Success!
  
  setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE setp
  hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen 2500 setp
  hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.stepspace 2500 setp
  hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirhold 2500 setp
  hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup 2500
  
  worked, no axis slip over a 4 hour test.
  
  I think I'll set everything up with even more time, and call it a day
  (or, 4 weekend days, to tell you how long I've been looking at this)
  
  Thanks all!
  -
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Peter C. Wallace
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014, John Alexander Stewart wrote:

 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:52:19 -0400
 From: John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.
 
 Hi all;

 I thought I had this fixed.

 running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At the
 end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before and after,
 you can see different points)

 I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long time,
 now I find that the error is small, but still exists.

 - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)

You might try setting the steptime a little longer, I have seen other cases 
where more margin is needed, unless your maximum steprate is getting close to 
1/(steplength+stepspace), there is no disadvantage to using longer times
and they improve your overall margins


 - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)

 - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.

 - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
 parameters to slow down any jerking.

 I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as I've
 spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing this X axis
 slip.

 What would you guys try?
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Mesa Electronics

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
()_() signature to help him gain world domination.


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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Dave Caroline
divide and conquer
eg swap driver to another axis, that eliminates the driver leaving
mechanics or the interface to the driver (timing/levels)

mechanics, I have had couplings slip

interfacing, bad timing delay from the reversal to the first step
driver not seeing levels correctly (opto not driven hard enough)

Dave Caroline


On 10/08/2014, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all;

 I thought I had this fixed.

 running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At the
 end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before and after,
 you can see different points)

 I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long time,
 now I find that the error is small, but still exists.

 - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)

 - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)

 - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.

 - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
 parameters to slow down any jerking.

 I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as I've
 spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing this X axis
 slip.

 What would you guys try?
 --
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 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread John Alexander Stewart
Thanks guys - will try the increase for steptime to 2500; let it run for
another 4 hours (no spindle speed; not much noise)

Dave - had thought of doing this - X and Y axes are identical steppers;
have to peek at the config again and see if the limit switches need moving
wires. We'll see if the steptime helps first, though.

Sigh! Thanks - JohnS.



On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com
wrote:

 divide and conquer
 eg swap driver to another axis, that eliminates the driver leaving
 mechanics or the interface to the driver (timing/levels)

 mechanics, I have had couplings slip

 interfacing, bad timing delay from the reversal to the first step
 driver not seeing levels correctly (opto not driven hard enough)

 Dave Caroline


 On 10/08/2014, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all;
 
  I thought I had this fixed.
 
  running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At the
  end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before and after,
  you can see different points)
 
  I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long
 time,
  now I find that the error is small, but still exists.
 
  - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)
 
  - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)
 
  - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.
 
  - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
  parameters to slow down any jerking.
 
  I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as I've
  spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing this X axis
  slip.
 
  What would you guys try?
 
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Ralph Stirling
The G540 has four identical plug-in modules inside the box.  You
could pop the lid off the box and swap two modules without undoing
any wiring.

-- Ralph

From: John Alexander Stewart [ivatt...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 11:02 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

Thanks guys - will try the increase for steptime to 2500; let it run for
another 4 hours (no spindle speed; not much noise)

Dave - had thought of doing this - X and Y axes are identical steppers;
have to peek at the config again and see if the limit switches need moving
wires. We'll see if the steptime helps first, though.

Sigh! Thanks - JohnS.



On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com
wrote:

 divide and conquer
 eg swap driver to another axis, that eliminates the driver leaving
 mechanics or the interface to the driver (timing/levels)

 mechanics, I have had couplings slip

 interfacing, bad timing delay from the reversal to the first step
 driver not seeing levels correctly (opto not driven hard enough)

 Dave Caroline


 On 10/08/2014, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all;
 
  I thought I had this fixed.
 
  running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At the
  end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before and after,
  you can see different points)
 
  I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long
 time,
  now I find that the error is small, but still exists.
 
  - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)
 
  - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)
 
  - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.
 
  - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
  parameters to slow down any jerking.
 
  I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as I've
  spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing this X axis
  slip.
 
  What would you guys try?
 
 --
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Gene Heskett
On Sunday 10 August 2014 13:10:15 Peter C. Wallace did opine
And Gene did reply:
 On Sun, 10 Aug 2014, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
  Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:52:19 -0400
  From: John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25,
  missing steps, once again.
  
  Hi all;
  
  I thought I had this fixed.
  
  running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At
  the end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before
  and after, you can see different points)
  
  I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long
  time, now I find that the error is small, but still exists.
  
  - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)
 
 You might try setting the steptime a little longer, I have seen other
 cases where more margin is needed, unless your maximum steprate is
 getting close to 1/(steplength+stepspace), there is no disadvantage to
 using longer times and they improve your overall margins

I will concur with Peter, but would also lengthen the dirsetup and dirhold 
times by another 1000ns, or one microsecond of additional time for all 4 
of those signal specs.

There is a page in the wiki that lists the required times for a quite long 
list of drivers, and I have had zero problems since adding 1 microsecond 
to all 4 timing specs listed for my 2M542 drivers.
 
  - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)
  
  - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.
  
  - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
  parameters to slow down any jerking.
  
  I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as
  I've spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing
  this X axis slip.
  
  What would you guys try?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Lars Andersson
I can offer something to look for, but no fix.

I have 2 G540 drivers, looks identical.
One is without problems.
The other very distincly stops stepping on the Y channel when the step 
rate goes below 150 Hz. (So a circle will have two flat spots)
This can be seen also when feeding with a lab type pulse generator.
I do not know why. The pulse timing I use is very conservative.
I have discussed this  problem with Gecko, the only solution is to send 
the drive for repair. (Shipping cost from Sweden easily buys me a new one)
I live with this, the faulty drive sits on a machine that only needs 
three stepper channels.



 Hi all;

 I thought I had this fixed.

 running a 4 hour engraving process, and the X axis slowly moves. At the
 end, it is off, maybe, 0.3mm or so. (using centre drill before and after,
 you can see different points)

 I thought I had this fixed, because I've had this problem for a long time,
 now I find that the error is small, but still exists.

 - 5i25 has stepdir, etc, parameters set to 2,000 (all 4 of them)

 - The G540 motor is tuned as per directions. (tuned more than once)

 - Only X axis affected, and only in 1 direction.

 - machine slowed down, currently trying one where I increased accel
 parameters to slow down any jerking.

 I'm beginning to think that the G540 is not working quite right, as I've
 spent (probably, over the last year) about 1 week on fixing this X axis
 slip.

 What would you guys try?
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread John Alexander Stewart
Yes! Success!

setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE
setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen 2500
setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.stepspace 2500
setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirhold 2500
setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup 2500

worked, no axis slip over a 4 hour test.

I think I'll set everything up with even more time, and call it a day (or,
4 weekend days, to tell you how long I've been looking at this)

Thanks all!
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Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

2014-08-10 Thread Ben Potter
Very late to this discussion. I had this problem about a month back, with an
incredible amount of frustration.

In the end I found that on my G540 I had to invert the stepgen output. When
inverted, no problems, when noninverted - one axis only would slowly slip
regardless of step timings.

I'm stuffed if I know _why_ inverting the step output would affect the
drives behaviour to this degree - but if all else fails...


-Original Message-
From: John Alexander Stewart [mailto:ivatt...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 10 August 2014 22:21
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G540, 5i25, missing steps, once again.

Yes! Success!

setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE setp
hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.steplen 2500 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.stepspace 2500
setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirhold 2500 setp hm2_5i25.0.stepgen.00.dirsetup
2500

worked, no axis slip over a 4 hour test.

I think I'll set everything up with even more time, and call it a day (or,
4 weekend days, to tell you how long I've been looking at this)

Thanks all!

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