Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Michal Kubecek]

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 07:34:12AM -0400, James Starkey wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015, Paul Reeves  wrote:
> On Wednesday 16 September 2015 11:35:02 Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
> > 16.09.2015 12:04, Paul Reeves пишет:
> > > I just noticed the size of firebird.msg in Fb 3 trunk - it seems to be
> > > around 550 Mb. In Fb 2.5 it is around 150 Mb and in the previous beta
> > > releases of Fb 3 it is also around 150Mb.
> >
> > You surely meant KB, not MB ;-)
> 
> But hey, it was just an error of a single order of magnitude :-)
> 
> Just as well that I'm not a futures trader.
> 
> 
> Uh, try three orders of magnitude.  Even better that you're not a
> government economist.

If we are nitpicking, it's actually rather around two orders than three
as he wrote "Mb", not "MB". :-)

 Michal Kubeček


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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Dmitry Yemanov]

16.09.2015 12:04, Paul Reeves пишет:
>
> I just noticed the size of firebird.msg in Fb 3 trunk - it seems to be around
> 550 Mb. In Fb 2.5 it is around 150 Mb and in the previous beta releases of Fb
> 3 it is also around 150Mb.

You surely meant KB, not MB ;-) Just checked the last (tonight's) 
snapshot of v3 - size is 148KB.


Dmitry


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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Paul Reeves]

On Wednesday 16 September 2015 12:14:28 Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
> 16.09.2015 11:56, Vlad Khorsun wrote:
> > Just run make_boot and newly generated firebird.msg have size 148104
> > bytes.
>
>May be Paul got French one in UTF-8?..

Definitely not French but UTF-8 did cross my mind. On the other hand, I've 
looked at the file in a hex editor. Basically it looks as if the normal 
string messages stop at around offset 00024280 and then the rest of the file 
is filled with this hex sequence: 92 C1 05 FF 01 00 00 00 12 00 00 00.

Not sure what to make of it but it is not urgent for now. I'll do a fresh 
check out at some point and diff it against my code. It is my development 
tree, so maybe something I was playing with has caused the problem. I never 
do production builds from my dev tree and I never commit directly from my dev 
tree either. All my commits are made by diffing the dev tree to a fresh 
checkout, and then carefully copying over the changes to the fresh checkout 
so that each change gets committed separately with correct documentation.


Paul
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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Paul Reeves]

On Wednesday 16 September 2015 13:34:12 James Starkey wrote:
> > >
> > > You surely meant KB, not MB ;-)
> >
> > But hey, it was just an error of a single order of magnitude :-)
> >
> >

> Uh, try three orders of magnitude.  Even better that you're not a
> government economist.


Actually Jim, I bet you a beer that I'm more correct than you are :-) The 
difference between a Kb and a Mb is a single order of magnitude. OTOH, the 
difference between 1,024 and 1,048,576 is definitely three orders of 
magnitude. But I didn't use decimal units. 

So I guess as long as I understand the units of measurment I'm using that 
government economist job might still be open. The pay would have to be an 
order of magnitude better, mind you, and with a good early retirement 
package.


Paul
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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Paul Reeves]

On Wednesday 16 September 2015 11:35:02 Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
> 16.09.2015 12:04, Paul Reeves пишет:
> > I just noticed the size of firebird.msg in Fb 3 trunk - it seems to be
> > around 550 Mb. In Fb 2.5 it is around 150 Mb and in the previous beta
> > releases of Fb 3 it is also around 150Mb.
>
> You surely meant KB, not MB ;-) 

But hey, it was just an error of a single order of magnitude :-)

Just as well that I'm not a futures trader.


> Just checked the last (tonight's) 
> snapshot of v3 - size is 148KB.
>

Thanks - that looks to be about right. Don't know why I'm getting 550Kb. I 
thought I was doing a regular build. I'll keep an eye on this. It is not 
important for now, but I wouldn't want it to slip out into a released 
version.


Paul

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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Vlad Khorsun]

16.09.2015 12:04, Paul Reeves wrote:
>
> I just noticed the size of firebird.msg in Fb 3 trunk - it seems to be around
> 550 Mb. In Fb 2.5 it is around 150 Mb and in the previous beta releases of Fb
> 3 it is also around 150Mb.
>
> What's happened?

   Just run make_boot and newly generated firebird.msg have size 148104 bytes.

Regards,
Vlad


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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[James Starkey]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015, Paul Reeves  wrote:

> On Wednesday 16 September 2015 11:35:02 Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
> > 16.09.2015 12:04, Paul Reeves пишет:
> > > I just noticed the size of firebird.msg in Fb 3 trunk - it seems to be
> > > around 550 Mb. In Fb 2.5 it is around 150 Mb and in the previous beta
> > > releases of Fb 3 it is also around 150Mb.
> >
> > You surely meant KB, not MB ;-)
>
> But hey, it was just an error of a single order of magnitude :-)
>
> Just as well that I'm not a futures trader.
>
>
> Uh, try three orders of magnitude.  Even better that you're not a
> government economist.



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Re: [Firebird-devel] firebird.msg

[Dimitry Sibiryakov]

16.09.2015 11:56, Vlad Khorsun wrote:
> Just run make_boot and newly generated firebird.msg have size 148104 
> bytes.

   May be Paul got French one in UTF-8?..

-- 
   WBR, SD.

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird.msg

[Mark Rotteveel]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:01:26 +0100, liviuslivius
liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl wrote:
 i must ask - why client not get error message if in fbclient.dll
directory
 firebird.msg is not present?
 I got unknown isc error instead of server message.
 I can understand that client can have firebird.msg translated - but if
it
 not have, then error message should go from server.
  
 I always - in my CS projects use 2 way of translations:
 1. All translation files must be present at server side and client must
 send accept language info (like http protocol do)
 and if language translation is not present then i got messages in
default
 server language
 2. Translation at client side - server always send messages in its
default
 language but on client side can be other translation message file
  
 Can Firebird work in this as i suppose standard way?

Firebird only sends the error code (+ message parameters), the client
looks up the error message and replaces message parameters where necessary.
This removes the need to send the full messages over the wire. These byte
savings might not be so important these days, but probably was when this
was first implemented. It has the downside of needing to have firebird.msg
with the client. As far as I know you do get an error message that
firebird.msg is missing (or that might be specific to IBpp), followed by
several unknown isc errors.

This is not something that can be easily replaced without changing the
protocol and expectations of all existing clients (including those that
don't use fbclient.dll).

BTW: One thing I have learned in the past few years is that there are no
real standard ways of doing things anywhere.

Mark

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Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird.msg

[James Starkey]

No, the intention was to support non-English clients, period.

Translation of both messages and national character sets is always best
done on the client.  This shouldn't be a problem as a message file should
always be available, even if it's the default English version.  If there
isn't a message file, somebody screwed up.


On Tuesday, November 18, 2014, Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl wrote:

 On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:01:26 +0100, liviuslivius
 liviusliv...@poczta.onet.pl javascript:; wrote:
  i must ask - why client not get error message if in fbclient.dll
 directory
  firebird.msg is not present?
  I got unknown isc error instead of server message.
  I can understand that client can have firebird.msg translated - but if
 it
  not have, then error message should go from server.
 
  I always - in my CS projects use 2 way of translations:
  1. All translation files must be present at server side and client must
  send accept language info (like http protocol do)
  and if language translation is not present then i got messages in
 default
  server language
  2. Translation at client side - server always send messages in its
 default
  language but on client side can be other translation message file
 
  Can Firebird work in this as i suppose standard way?

 Firebird only sends the error code (+ message parameters), the client
 looks up the error message and replaces message parameters where necessary.
 This removes the need to send the full messages over the wire. These byte
 savings might not be so important these days, but probably was when this
 was first implemented. It has the downside of needing to have firebird.msg
 with the client. As far as I know you do get an error message that
 firebird.msg is missing (or that might be specific to IBpp), followed by
 several unknown isc errors.

 This is not something that can be easily replaced without changing the
 protocol and expectations of all existing clients (including those that
 don't use fbclient.dll).

 BTW: One thing I have learned in the past few years is that there are no
 real standard ways of doing things anywhere.

 Mark


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