Re: [Flightgear-devel] XML SCripting
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2004.02.13 07:27]: JSBSim has been doing this for some time, now. I can't remember just how long, We include XML scripts from other scripts. The claim that this is patentable is absurd. Jon Presumably it can be traced back via CVS? Mally This is from our CVS from about 3 years ago: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jsbsim/JSBSim/scripts/c1722.xml?annota te=1.1 The above is an XML script to run JSBSim, it includes other scripts that define an aircraft, and initial conditions. Of course, below is another one that defines an aircraft, it includes scripts that define an engine and propeller, and it was first done around : http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/jsbsim/JSBSim/aircraft/X15/X15.xml?ann otate=1.1 It is from over three years ago, and is already at version 1.30. I can't recall before that how long we had been doing that. I have a hunch this kind of thing is not what is covered in the patent, though. FWIW, Microsoft filed their patent on Dec. 1, 2000. The CVS entry you reference was from Apr. 6, 2001. Can you beat the December date? -- Cameron Moore Vice-President in Charge of Everything ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Using Nasal for view calcs in preferences.xml
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2004.01.28 09:47]: Cameron Moore wrote: Is it possible to use nasal scripting in preferences.xml? I'm specifically interested in using it in a view definition. You can have Nasal blocks under /nasal/module name in the property tree like this: nasal my-module fileWhere/Ever/my-module.nas/file /my-module /nasal Or you can put the source code inline inside a script tag. You can do the same thing with the aircraft -set.xml files. Global nasal code like this runs at the end of initialization, so you will see the property tree as it will look at the beginning of execution. Note that you will therefore *not* be able to synthesize properties to affect the initialization of other code. Okay. I read all that in your docs last night. :-) But after knowing all that, I still know if it will do what I want... What exactly are you trying to do? Run a script when the view changes? Probably the best way to do that would be to have a command binding inside the view tag; the code in view.nas could then invoke it after the switch. I'm wanting an auto-zooming tower view. We could implement it in C++, but I thought I'd give nasal a shot. My plan was basically to take the current lookat Tower View and use nasal scripting to set an offset from the eye location projected toward the model. The reasoning behind this is that I want to have an RC-type view that's more usable. Normally the aircraft gets very small, very fast trying to fly from the tower view. I'm wanting to set a max distance from the aircraft to the eye location. -- Cameron Moore [ I'm trying to daydream, but my mind keeps wandering. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can we ban outlook users from the list?
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2004.01.27 13:09]: Just a thought :-) Best, Jim Yes, we can actually. Just filter out this in Mailman: ^X-Mailer:.*Outlook Problem solved. ;-P -- Cameron Moore [ Why are there 5 syllables in the word monosyllabic? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Using Nasal for view calcs in preferences.xml
Is it possible to use nasal scripting in preferences.xml? I'm specifically interested in using it in a view definition. -- Cameron Moore [ You're mind can only absorb what you seek out and endure. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] My Flight in a B-1B Flight Simulator at Dyess AFB
the hardware side of it (okay, maybe Gene can ;-). Anyway, it was a fun trip. If any of you ever get a chance to climb into a big sim like this, go for it. Merry Christmas! [1] http://www.kgwings.com/fieldtrips/dyess/sim1.JPG http://www.kgwings.com/fieldtrips/dyess/sim2.JPG http://www.kgwings.com/fieldtrips/dyess/b1sim.JPG -- Cameron Moore [ How do you write zero in Roman Numerals? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] My Flight in a B-1B Flight Simulator at Dyess AFB
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2003.12.23 19:02]: As for the software side of the sim, it looked and felt a lot like FlightGear+JSBSim. There were some bugs: Hmmm... ;-) Hehe. I didn't mean to imply that JSBSim has bugs (though it does ;-). I meant that the handling was about the same in both. One question though. I mentioned trying to line up with a fuel tanker and how the delayed movement was throwing me off. My guess is that this behavior was due to slow control surface movements. My question is if JSBSim simulates control surface movement speeds (excluding the flaps which do) or is the control surface deflection always exactly equal to the control input? -- Cameron Moore [ Why is a carrot more orange than an orange? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Bad link in FAQ
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2003.12.14 16:40]: Apparently rockfish.net is no longer in service. Section 6.6 (and others?) of the FAQ points to a nonexistent link. Thanks. I'll try to get a new version out before Christmas. :-) Where was the documentation on creating panels? Used to be Flightgear/docs-mini/README.xmlpanel -- Cameron Moore [ Do they give pilots crash courses in flight school? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG logo Slovenian flag
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon S Berndt) [2003.11.27 20:37]:
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:11:26 +
Matthew Law [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10:47 Thu 27 Nov , Erik Hofman wrote:
Yeah, but then you'd get a fight over which flag is put in first and
which flag is shows just for 0.1 usec (e.g. the last flag) ...
Erik
Maybe randomise the order ?
I'll work on a modified version after the holiday.
Might want to start from here:
http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Developers/Developers.html
I don't have Slovenia yet, though.
--
Cameron Moore
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] latest AI tricks
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2003.11.28 12:15]: Erik Hofman wrote: I've put the current code, slightly modified on one or two places, into CVS. The next step would be adding support for NASAL scripts to controll the vehicles and after that we need some code the add dynamic objects to scenery locations to make it possible for ferries to cross the channel (or something like that). I'd love to play with the AI stuff and see now Nasal fits in. But I've been kinda ignoring it so far. :) Is there a quickie tutorial or something (or even a mailing list message that I missed) that you can point me to? Can't wait for you guys to add the AI for a Blue Angels routine. :-) -- Cameron Moore -rw-r--r--1 cameron users 8 Oct 4 19:41 .signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] CVS: source/src/FDM/YASim Rotor.cpp, 1.3, 1.4 Rotorpart.cpp, 1.2, 1.3
David,
As for the STL headers, use these instead:
#include STL_IOSTREAM
#include STL_IOMANIP
There are actually many files that are not using these variables from
simgear/compiler.h. It looks like the ATC code and JSBSim are handling
this on their own instead of letting Simgear do it (though JSBSim is
special ;-).
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2003.11.25 21:05]:
David,
There's a sprintf in Rotor.cpp and compilation is failing with the
stdio.h include removed.
Best,
Jim
David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Index: Rotor.cpp
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/FDM/YASim/Rotor.cpp,v
retrieving revision 1.3
retrieving revision 1.4
diff -C2 -r1.3 -r1.4
*** Rotor.cpp 19 Oct 2003 09:27:27 - 1.3
--- Rotor.cpp 25 Nov 2003 18:50:47 - 1.4
***
*** 1,2
--- 1,4
+ #include simgear/debug/logstream.hxx
+
#include Math.hpp
#include Surface.hpp
***
*** 4,8
#include Rotorblade.hpp
#include Rotor.hpp
! #include stdio.h
//#include string.h
namespace yasim {
--- 6,14
#include Rotorblade.hpp
#include Rotor.hpp
! #include iostream
! #include iomanip
!
--
Cameron Moore
/ I was once walking through the forest alone. A tree \
\ fell right in front of me -- and I didn't hear it. /
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] OT: FlightGear presence on the Net
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Surgeon) [2003.11.14 13:20]: I'm amazed at how many times I've searched for info on wgs84 and projections and datums on Google and get FlightGear mailing lists appearing on the first page. It's good to see that FlightGear/TerraGear are so highly regarded in the GIS world. ;) I don't know how highly regarded we are, but Google seems to think we know what we're talking about. :-) -- Cameron Moore / If a man says something in the woods and\ \ there are no women there, is he still wrong? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] a FIXME in fg_props.cxx
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Buckle) [2003.11.12 10:35]:
code:
static const char *
getDateString ()
{
static char buf[64]; // FIXME
struct tm * t = globals-get_time_params()-getGmt();
sprintf(buf, %.4d-%.2d-%.2dT%.2d:%.2d:%.2d,
t-tm_year + 1900, t-tm_mon + 1, t-tm_mday,
t-tm_hour, t-tm_min, t-tm_sec);
return buf;
}
Why the FIXME in the declaration of buf? Is there a better way of doing
that? Is there a buffer overrun concern or something?
We should at least be using snprintf() here.
Pardon me while I gripe a moment. It's usually a good idea to put a
description next to a FIXME comment for precisely this reason. It would
be a great help to people who are looking for something to do.
It's also usually a good idea to keep a constant CVS repository so we
can go back and see who added this code and if they said anything in the
cvs-commit message about what is broken. All of the CVS history prior
to Flightgear-0.9.0 is gone. :-/
gripe_mode=0;
--
Cameron Moore
[ I'm ashamed the lead singer of the Dixie Chicks is from Texas. ]
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FAQ suggestion.
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Buckle) [2003.11.11 15:03]: I think we need to add something like the following to the FAQ: Please read section #2.2 and #2.3 of the FAQ before emailing Curt about FTP problems. I'm not sure if that get's too recursive, and it probably wouldn't do any good. sigh How about adding a giant warning to the download pages to tell people to get their head out and pay attention to the FAQ? What if I just broke off the FTP questions into their FTP section instead of putting them in the Distribution section? I don't know how we could be any more clear. How about : A compileable version of GLUT can be found at x ...as well? You guys have to help me out here. Send me the question and answer, and I will add it to the FAQ. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FAQ suggestion.
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Buckle) [2003.11.11 16:56]: How about : A compileable version of GLUT can be found at x ...as well? You guys have to help me out here. Send me the question and answer, and I will add it to the FAQ. Thanks Mesa 5.0.2 fits the bill as long as the MesaDemo source archive is downloaded and built as well. The configure script is terminally broken. It does _not_ work at all. To build use: cp Makefile.X11 Makefile make clean make make linux// or another config from the list. This is per Brian Paul (author of Mesa) in a posting to the mesa3d-users list. g. Ok...uh, what was the question? :-) I haven't been following the Mesa discussions. -- Cameron Moore [ Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Multiplayer Server RFC -- Current Status
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2003.11.06 05:51]: Melchior FRANZ writes: * Norman Vine -- Thursday 06 November 2003 10:10: John Barrett writes: primary goal: blow them outa the sky !! FWIW Historicaly FlightGear has resisted being a Military SIM. (actually resisted is not a strong enough word) From the FAQ (http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/FAQ.shtml#7.4): | 7.4 - Is there support for any military scenarios like dog | fighting or bomb dropping? | | No, we do not currently support combat. Most of our developers | are primarily focused on civilian aviation. We aren't explicitly | excluding these features -- we just haven't had anyone who seriously | wanted to develop these areas. | | However, FlightGear does contain several military aircraft, albeit | without munitions. Doesn't sound like such a strong resistance. :- There is a *huge* differeance between having military aircraft in a 'flight' simulator and a 'combat' simulator. If you want to simulate combat please make it a separate project Nothing wrong with building atop of FGFS, and in fact FGFS tries to be accomodating in that respect. I wrote that FAQ entry after seeing several discussions about combat in FG. I never heard anyone say what you are saying Norman (ie. go away. we aren't going to do combat). I believe I also sent that entry to Curt before publishing it to make sure I wasn't off base. Now, there are a few people involved in FG that are very opposed to a combat framework, but there are an equal number of people that are very interested in adding it. The rest of us (including me) fall somewhere in the middle: if we don't have combat or if we do, I'm still going to enjoy FG. Having said that, I think the addition of combat capabilities should be done in a modular, non-intrusive way. I don't think we should force someone to create a fork of FG just so they can implement projectiles and a damage model. To the folks that want combat, work real hard to support a --with-combat=no option, or you're gonna get shot down real fast. ;-) -- Cameron Moore / The other day, I went to a tourist information booth and asked, \ \ Tell me about some of the people who were here last year./ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Multiplayer Server RFC -- Current Status
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Barrett) [2003.11.07 11:12]: - Original Message - From: Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To the folks that want combat, work real hard to support a --with-combat=no option, or you're gonna get shot down real fast. ;-) -- Already there and them some :) I'm working up the protocol base classes at the moment, and I went so far as to make the entire client/server code enabled/disabled by configure option, then, as added protection for those not interested in what I'm adding on, I added a new executable target to the Main makefile -- fgmp -- when you build, you get a stock FG binary, and if enabled, the multiplayer version that uses the client/server extensions. That should keep everyone happy who does not want a tainted binary, and allow easy performance/etc comparison between stock fgfs and fgmp In case you are misunderstanding what I am talking about, let me clarify. Noone (that I know of) is opposed to multiplayer/multipilot capabilities being in FG. What we are debating is combat -- ie. modelling projectiles such as bombs, bullets, and rockets and their resulting damage to objects. These are two separate problems, though one is a prerequisite of the other. -- Cameron Moore [ So what's the speed of dark? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Version[s]
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon S Berndt) [2003.11.07 12:16]: Suggestion: for debugging purposes (if nothing else) it would be useful to have this command: fgfs --version also spit out info on other pertinent version numbers, e.g. for: plib simgear jsbsim yasim etc. JSBSim has this available in a header file, and IIRC it is also available in a function call. How about putting them in the property tree? /versions/fgfs = 0.9.4 /versions/plib = 1.6.0 /versions/simgear = 0.3.4 /versions/jsbsim = 0.9.4 ... Then you could just loop through /versions/* and spit out the values. This way, any component can register its version for the user to view. -- Cameron Moore / Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the \ \ same time. I think I've forgotten this before. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Problems with AC3D 4.0
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2003.10.29 18:09]: snip/ Some before after FlightGear screenshots are available at: http://www.plausible.org/vertsplit [Be patient if things seem slow; there is 400k of images on that page and my DSL line has a 128kbps upload rate. If you don't want to wait, download the code instead and try it for yourself. :)] snip/ http://www.plausible.org/vertsplit/vertsplit.tar.gz snip/ I almost gave up on loading the page. Here's a mirror: http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/www.plausible.org/vertsplit/ Thanks, Andy -- Cameron Moore [ I tried to draw my shadow once, but my arm kept moving. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Version 0.9.3
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.10.22 14:20]: It seems like the 0.9.3-pre1 version has been working out pretty well for people. There have been some subsequent tweaks. Any objections to finalizing the 0.9.3 release? I realize this doesn't give enough time to do a proper job with the documentation. However, I am going to out of town Nov 3-7 and if I don't get the release done before then it will realistically take me 1-2 weeks to get caught up from being gone, and then another week to get the release out and if something unanticipated comes up in the mean time we could be looking at 2004 before I could get the release out, at which point there will be a pile of new changes and we'll have to start the process all over again in order to let the new additions settle out and stabalize. The one thing I try to do for each release that I haven't had time to do is update the man pages. I generally just go to cvsweb and look at what commands have been added to options.cxx. I won't be able to look at this until Thursday or Friday though, so if anyone wants to have a go at it, feel free. -- Cameron Moore $\=Hacker;$,=another ;printJust ,Perl ; ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] --ceiling option
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2003.09.02 13:55]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why don't we use SI Units in flightgear? Why unknown feets when meter is the international standard in this world? Ah, this is a long-standing thread. Personally, I'd love to use SI internally, but for the user interface, we still need to use Imperial, because that's what most of the aviation world uses. As far as I know, even countries that use SI for some things (such as runway length or altimeter setting) still use a lot of Imperial for flying, including altitude and airspeed. One exception is temperature -- nearly everyone is using degC now for aviation weather. By the way, I live in Canada, which is also a Metric country, so I have to convert constantly between the liters I buy fuel in and the U.S. gallons in my aircraft's published performance data. Even though Canada switched to SI in the 1970's, however, we still give runway length and altitude in feet, visibility in statute miles, and distance in nautical miles. We give the altimeter setting primarily in inHg, but the METAR includes the hPa setting in comments. David, Should --units-meters affect the --ceiling option? I'm not sure what all the --units-* options are supposed to affect. -- Cameron Moore [ Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] --com1 and --com2
David (primarily), I'm working on updating the man pages and see that you commited options to Main/options.cxx for --com1 and --com2, but there is no description for them in the options.xml or strings-default.xml files. Are these options functional? -- Cameron Moore [ What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery mirrors
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Luff) [2003.10.15 06:37]: The http mirrors of FG are all straight mirrors of the master site, as are the ftp mirrors. Hence the graphical scenery download page on the http mirrors points back to the master site. Hence it's impossible to download scenery from the ftp mirrors using the graphical interface. It seems to me it might be worth tweaking the http mirror's graphical download page to point to the corresponding ftp mirror if available? Cheers - Dave One way to fix this would be Javascript. Here's my idea: Create a select input on the graphical download page with the different ftp mirrors -- default to master. Add an event handler to the select so that it updates a variable (ie. $MIRROR) when the user changes it. Update the links over the graphical interface to use an onClick() event instead of an href element. The onClick() simply directs the user to ftp://$MIRROR/fgfs/Scenery-0.9.2/e000n00.tar.gz or whatever is appropriate. Just a thought. -- Cameron Moore [ You're mind can only absorb what you seek out and endure. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery mirrors
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.10.15 11:38]: Cameron Moore writes: One way to fix this would be Javascript. [sound of the front door slamming] [very rapid foot steps are heard fading off into the distance ...] [ zip - Cameron zips up his flame-retardent jacket ] I said One way... And BTW, I agree. I only use JS when I have no other choice. To me the only other choice is having a separate graphical page for each ftp mirror, which I don't particularly like either. So why not JS? One can assume that anyone using the GRAPHICAL interface will have a GRAPHICAL browser, so bye-bye lynx/links. One can also assume that only hardcore/anal users will have JS disabled, and they will be more than skilled enough to ftp to the mirrors on their own without the need to use the graphical interface. I could work on a prototype if you will consider it, but if it's gonna get shot down just due to the fact that it's JS, I won't bother. It can't be any worse than python. ;-P I think I've been watching too many cartoons lately ... my excuse is that my 2.5 year old daughter now lists SpongeBob SquarePants as her favorite TV show. Thankfully we somehow managed to completely skip the Barney/Teletubbies stage and went straight to something that's funny and entertaining. :-) My 20-month old son likes SpongeBobPants too (yes, it all one word). Here's my idea: Create a select input on the graphical download page with the different ftp mirrors -- default to master. Add an event handler to the select so that it updates a variable (ie. $MIRROR) when the user changes it. Update the links over the graphical interface to use an onClick() event instead of an href element. The onClick() simply directs the user to ftp://$MIRROR/fgfs/Scenery-0.9.2/e000n00.tar.gz or whatever is appropriate. -- Cameron Moore [ Bombay is 250ms from New York in the new world order - Alan Cox ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery mirrors
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.10.15 14:05]: Cameron Moore writes: I said One way... And BTW, I agree. I only use JS when I have no other choice. To me the only other choice is having a separate graphical page for each ftp mirror, which I don't particularly like either. So why not JS? One can assume that anyone using the GRAPHICAL interface will have a GRAPHICAL browser, so bye-bye lynx/links. One can also assume that only hardcore/anal users will have JS disabled, and they will be more than skilled enough to ftp to the mirrors on their own without the need to use the graphical interface. I could work on a prototype if you will consider it, but if it's gonna get shot down just due to the fact that it's JS, I won't bother. It can't be any worse than python. ;-P If you can make the magic happen in JS, I'd be willing to enable JS to test it out ... :-) If it works well enough, I'd consider switching the page to use it. This doesn't address the same problem with the other source/binary release files, but it's a start. Perhaps we could also keep the current page as a backup? As in, if this page seems empty, useless, or broke in your browser, click here for an alternate less fancy interface. My suggestion for using JS was because of the whole mirroring thing. We could do something server-side, but then our mirrors will have to be able to handle it. I assume we are constrained to using only client-side stuff. My 20-month old son likes SpongeBobSquarePants too (yes, it all one word). Umm...did you edit my reply? I meant SpongeBobPants. My son leaves out the Square part. It's funny...but, I guess you have to be there. I'm imagining an episode where SpongeBob accidently gets cvs write access to the flightgear project ... or even just signs up to our mailing lists ... :-) Or he finds FG and tries it out only to find that he can't figure out how to make it work. So he emails the project leader (you) or the FAQ maintainer (me) personally to ask a question that belongs on the mailing list. We tell him to ask the list and his gets his feelings hurt and it just snowballs from there. ;-) -- Cameron Moore / If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around \ \to see it, do the other trees make fun of it? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] web site updates
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.09.30 22:22]: Cameron Moore writes: - Makes maintaining documentation a pain. For example, the FAQ page is no longer a self-contained doc. Possible solutions: o Use frames (never!) o Use SSI (in faq.html put !--#include=FlightGear-FAQ.html--) o Update FAQ output procedure to include new design elements (not a big fan of this one) Yeah, some of the autogenerated stuff might be better without the wrappers or else with the SSI stuff ... I'll have to poke around and see if I need to enable this on the web server side In apache use Options Includes. There are some issues that would need to be resolved to make this work properly with all the docs, some of which will be more trouble than their worth. For the docs that can easily be worked with, it would be nice to use Andrei's design. For the others, it should be fine to just leave them alone. We don't want to over-complicate the Docs section. Do you have any updates to the FAQ while I'm looking at this? Unfortunately, no. I've been swamped with RL lately. -- Cameron Moore [ A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: AN225
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.10.01 17:28]: Melchior FRANZ writes: * Jon S Berndt -- Wednesday 01 October 2003 22:41: Could anyone provide a screen dump image of this aircraft flying in FlightGear? Not exactly flying, but ... http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a8603365/fgfs10.jpeg (70kB) Also notice the shadow in that image. :-) Cool! I must have missed that commit message. Nice work everyone. -- Cameron Moore [ I'm ashamed the lead singer of the Dixie Chicks is from Texas. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] web site updates
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2003.09.30 16:12]: Curtis L. Olson writes: Andrei Barbu has revamped the flightgear web site layout and made quite a few improvements. I have placed the proposed changes here: http://www.flightgear.org/www.andrei/ Cool but all I get from the above link are 404s Both IExplorer and Mozilla ?? Norman Too late...it's now the official site. -- Cameron Moore / Just think how much deeper the ocean \ \ would be if sponges didn't live there / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] web site updates
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.09.30 13:57]: Andrei Barbu has revamped the flightgear web site layout and made quite a few improvements. snip/ There are a few things I'd like to tweak (mostly because they should have been tweaked in the original site long ago) but if people generally like the changes, I will make them official and we can go from there. Let me know ... First of all, thanks, Andrei. The new design looks awesome. I've wanted to take a stab at redesigning the site for a long time, but haven't had time, which turned out to be a good thing since you appear to be better at it than me. :-) Here's MHO: Pros IMHO: - Logical navigation - Nice clean design - Nice use of CSS - Overall it brings the site into the 21st century Cons IMHO: - No DOCTYPE specification[1] - Email addresses on each page (spam bait) - Makes maintaining documentation a pain. For example, the FAQ page is no longer a self-contained doc. Possible solutions: o Use frames (never!) o Use SSI (in faq.html put !--#include=FlightGear-FAQ.html--) o Update FAQ output procedure to include new design elements (not a big fan of this one) My personal preference would be to use SSI in order to make the documentation updates easy for everyone. If we only use the include SSI directive, it's should cause minimal load on the webserver. But anyway, the new design looks great, and I'm glad Andrei was able to step up and knock it outta the park. Great job, Andrei. [1] http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html -- Cameron Moore [ You're mind can only absorb what you seek out and endure. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] web site updates
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.09.30 17:37]: Cameron Moore writes: First of all, thanks, Andrei. The new design looks awesome. I've wanted to take a stab at redesigning the site for a long time, but haven't had time, which turned out to be a good thing since you appear to be better at it than me. :-) Here's MHO: Pros IMHO: - Logical navigation - Nice clean design - Nice use of CSS - Overall it brings the site into the 21st century What can I say, I learned html in the 20th century back when there were more gopher servers than http servers. :-) Probably most of you are saying gopher what? ... gopher was kind of like a text only web server. The first web server I installed was dual gopher/http. You set up your pages in a funky way so that they could be server with either gopher or http protocols depending on what the client wanted. Ahhh the good old days. I'm just a kid I guess (25), but I do remember gopher servers. I got onto the net about the time HTTP was taking over. I do remember getting onto a gopher server once and couldn't figure out what good it was compared to HTTP. :-] Cons IMHO: - No DOCTYPE specification[1] Anything you can give me to paste into the header. Use this: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd; - Makes maintaining documentation a pain. For example, the FAQ page is no longer a self-contained doc. Possible solutions: o Use frames (never!) o Use SSI (in faq.html put !--#include=FlightGear-FAQ.html--) o Update FAQ output procedure to include new design elements (not a big fan of this one) Yeah, some of the autogenerated stuff might be better without the wrappers or else with the SSI stuff ... I'll have to poke around and see if I need to enable this on the web server side In apache use Options Includes. There are some issues that would need to be resolved to make this work properly with all the docs, some of which will be more trouble than their worth. For the docs that can easily be worked with, it would be nice to use Andrei's design. For the others, it should be fine to just leave them alone. We don't want to over-complicate the Docs section. My personal preference would be to use SSI in order to make the documentation updates easy for everyone. If we only use the include SSI directive, it's should cause minimal load on the webserver. But anyway, the new design looks great, and I'm glad Andrei was able to step up and knock it outta the park. Great job, Andrei. Yes, it looks really nice ... but there are a few loose ends to clean up like you say. [ Caution: Pet peeve ] I noticed that you are using complete URLs in the links now (such as a href=http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/;/a). You can accomplish the same effect by using an absolute link like so: a href=/Docs//a. Notice it starts with a slash. Doing this will save 25 bytes for every link on the page. -- Cameron Moore [ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Specular Highlights
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lee Elliott) [2003.09.14 22:55]: On Monday 15 September 2003 04:04, Cameron Moore wrote: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2003.09.13 10:39]: Jim Wilson wwrites: Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: This is a nice effect but I think this should default to off though in that this can cause quite a peformance hit on 'older' cards. On my geForce2 GTS the framerate hit varies between 10% and 100% depending on visibility range setting and what is in view and time of day i.e. starting up at default location at night brings my machine down to less then 10 fps which is quite a bit slower then what I consider 'flying' H...that's odd. I'm seeing absolutely zero effect on my GF2MX200 w/24bpp. Which CPU and what depth level are you running? PIII 733 [EMAIL PROTECTED] bits snip/ Note on a 1.4 P4 with a geForceGo 5650 there is no noticeable differance If you are on the 440BX chipset (like me), you will only get AGP 2x. I've got a GF2GTS that can go up to 4x, but not on my mobo. :-/ I'd be very surprised to find a P4 operating with a 440BX chipset. Sorry, for the confusion. I was talking about his PIII 733. I left his P4 comment in there so you could see that it may be a bus speed issue. -- Cameron Moore / Why are they called buildings, when they're already \ \ finished? Shouldn't they be called builts? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Specular Highlights
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2003.09.13 10:39]: Jim Wilson wwrites: Norman Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: This is a nice effect but I think this should default to off though in that this can cause quite a peformance hit on 'older' cards. On my geForce2 GTS the framerate hit varies between 10% and 100% depending on visibility range setting and what is in view and time of day i.e. starting up at default location at night brings my machine down to less then 10 fps which is quite a bit slower then what I consider 'flying' H...that's odd. I'm seeing absolutely zero effect on my GF2MX200 w/24bpp. Which CPU and what depth level are you running? PIII 733 [EMAIL PROTECTED] bits snip/ Note on a 1.4 P4 with a geForceGo 5650 there is no noticeable differance If you are on the 440BX chipset (like me), you will only get AGP 2x. I've got a GF2GTS that can go up to 4x, but not on my mobo. :-/ -- Cameron Moore / Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, \ \ for they are subtle and quick to anger. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] 60 seconds of flightgear
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.09.08 23:29]: Ok, this is for those that would rather see a screen shot than the real thing. :-) Here's a 60 second, 12Mb movie to watch: http://www.flightgear.org/tmp/fgfs-movie1.avi Just out of curiousity, could you not take Norman's approach to the jpeg server feature and write every frame to disk, and then join them all together to make a movie? -- Cameron Moore [ When sign makers go on strike, what do they picket with? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] scenery update
Richard, The file in question needs to be sent to the software maker so they can fix this false positive. Thanks * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Bytheway) [2003.09.08 09:02]: More info... See http://sucs.org/~mocelet/fgfs/fake_virus.png for a screen shot (10KB) of the error message. It appears that it is opening the .gz and looking at the tar file, and having a problem. Note that it doesn't actually identify the virus that it has found (no wonder it cannot clean it). If this persists in the final release scenery we may need a note on the download page explaing that it is likely to happen. Richard Just for info, I downloaded w130n30.tar.gz and w130n40.tar.gz and my virus scanner (Dr Solomon's VirusScan v4.5.0 on W2K) flagged both files as infected and uncleanable. I doubt that the files are actually infected since I trust Curt and they have not been on a Windows system until they hit my PC, but this would be a bad thing to happen for released scenery. I will try to determine what it claimed they were infected by (it is happy now for some reason), and post a follow up... Richard -Original Message- From: Curtis L. Olson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 September 2003 3:44 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Flightgear-devel] scenery update Ok, my latest beta scenery from last night's build has been uploaded to the main ftp server: ftp://ftp.flightgear.org/pub/fgfs/Scenery-0.9.2/ This build has much better road/river smoothing. The roads no longer carve huge V's into the terrain. I might want to add a bit more smoothing for rivers in the next build, but they aren't too bad. They do run up and down the hills a bit, but in most situations it's not noticable. This motly happens when the river location is very mismatched with SRTM and the river is climbing up and down the canyon sides. Regards, Curt. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Cameron Moore [ If you're sending someone some Styrofoam, what do you pack it in? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Outlook comments
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2003.08.29 08:27]: Curtis L. Olson writes: I'll just switch to outlook until this current sentiment passes. :-) Umm shouldn't that be lookout :-) I generally refer to it as Outbreak, myself. -- Cameron Moore [ You're mind can only absorb what you seek out and endure. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] Angry rant: the end of david@megginson.com
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Buckle) [2003.08.27 10:12]: Gene Buckle writes: Thanks Norman. I wish they'd stop writing such crap. *sigh* g. On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Norman Vine wrote: FYI http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-2003-07.html It's just that I had far better things to do with my evening than upgrade a machine to postfix. One that handles something like 6 mailing lists too. Pissed off doesn't begin to describe my condition right now. *snarl* Gene, I'm a little late to this conversation, but I just wanted to point out that this advisory was released on March 3, 2003. This is not a new exploit in sendmail. If you've been running an unpatched sendmail this whole time, it may be too late. -- Cameron Moore [ Why is a carrot more orange than an orange? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGFS Base CVS
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.08.22 14:21]: Norman Vine writes: I agree having many FDM's and many Aircraft is one of FGFS's cooler points, but, IMO there is no reason these all need be in the 'core' package, esp when just staying current with the core package gets in the way of code development. I think at some point (maybe sooner rather than later?) we need to do some tweaking to the aircraft directly layout so it is possible to: a) make everything related to a particular plane be contained in a single, dedicated directory tree. b) allow these aircraft to be grouped and arranged in various subdirectories (the system would do a recursive search for aircraft or something like that.) This would allow any aircraft to be distributed as a single .zip or .tgz or .tar.gz or whatever. Installation of an aircraft would be simply extracting the archive into the appropriate folder inside the aircraft folder (at the end user's discretion.) Removal of an aircraft would simply be to delete the subdirectory. I think most end users could handle this arrangement ... they seem to be able to do similar things for other simulators. Then we could maintain a core set of aicraft in the official repository, and beyond that, aircraft developers would be responsible for maintaining and distibuting their own designs. (We could perhaps do something like making a separate area on the ftp server to facilitate the storage and distribution of add on aircraft ... because we are *not* trying to make things more difficult for the aircraft designers as a side effect.) Your suggestion has been on many peoples' wishlists for a while, and I like the idea of it. With this additional functionality, we could do this: $ cd $FG_BASE/Aircraft ln -s $FG_EXTRAS/Aircraft/ Extras/ FG would traverse the Aircraft/Extras/ directory, but `cvs update` would ignore it (I think). This would solve Norman's problem and still keep the aircraft developers' jobs easy. -- Cameron Moore / If toast always lands butter-side down, and cats always land on their \ \ feet, what happen if you strap toast on the back of a cat and drop it? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] New Wiki Page: Flight Gear Janitors
I started a new wiki page tonight located here: http://seedwiki.com/index.cfm?doc=FlightGearJanitorswikiid=2418 Feel free to add to it. I could only think of a few things to put on it but wanted to get it up there so we can collectively turn it into something useful for the newbies and less-involved developers like myself. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ If con is the opposite of pro, what is the opposite of progress? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] DC3 sound package
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Manuel Bessler) [2003.06.22 20:59]: I found a sound package of DC-3 sounds (actually for 'that other simulator') which might license-wise be compatible with the GPL. http://www.dc3airways.com/dc3sounds.zip I've been wanting to play around with Sweep[1] lately, and this was a good opportunity to do that. While jacking around with the filters, I found a gem that makes it sound like you are wearing headphones. If you want to play with it, do this: - Load tXce4.wav - Select all - Open the Glame Bandpass Filter Processing window - Set Bandwidth to 202.8 Hz (click, then hit right arrow key) - Press Play. You can alternate between ^Z and ^R to undo/redo and hear the difference I've only been up in a real, private aircraft a couple times, but this sounds pretty close to what I remember. PS - Would it be feasible to add a filter into plib to do the headphones effect in realtime? Just my 2 sound-processing-newbie-cents. [1] http://sweep.sf.net/ -- Cameron Moore [ So what's the speed of dark? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [PATCH] Instruments/hsi2.xml: fix path
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Melchior FRANZ) [2003.06.20 15:43]: diff -u -p -r1.5 hsi2.xml --- hsi2.xml20 Apr 2003 10:05:20 - 1.5 +++ hsi2.xml19 Jun 2003 15:54:27 - @@ -115,7 +115,7 @@ Started 24-7-01 by Timothy Gale typeswitch/type layer condition - property alias=../../../../../../params/nav-from-flag/ + property alias=../../../../../params/nav-from-flag/ /condition nameFROM flag/name texture Is there a reason why we use relative paths here? -- Cameron Moore [ Why don't you ever see the headline Psychic Wins Lottery? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] trim wheel markings
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2003.04.06 18:04]: The markings are almost readible on the trim wheel in this photo: http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/01mstg17.html The words, neutral and elevator trim are clear enough, but I'm just not sure about the four letters that mark the directions. It looks like TN and NN. Anyone know? Ask Jon if he has any info on this in his maintenance manual CD. I will say that I, too, think it's TH and NH. Not sure what that means. I can also make out RUDDER and AILERON TRIM on the other two trim wheels. -- Cameron Moore [ Why is the word dictionary in the dictionary? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Another 3D 'gaming' library
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Spott) [2003.04.03 06:14]: Currently I have absolutely no idea if this one is wort looking at, but at least they appear to have a P-51 model to probably copy details from ;-) Actually, I think Jim's P-51D is better. -- Cameron Moore [ Reason #73 why I can't sleep at night: 0.9.. = 1 ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] debugging output
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2003.04.01 13:31]: You can set /sim/logging/classes to a whitespace-separated list of any or all of the following values: terrain astro flight input gl view cockpit general math event aircraft autopilot io clipper network You can also use one of the values all or none. Perhaps we could change to a comma-delimited list so we can read it directly in from the command-line line like: --log-classes=flight,aircraft,autopilot I guess it's simple enough to s/,/ /g but thought I'd poke my head out from behind my cubicle to cause some trouble. :-) -- Cameron Moore / I asked the librarian where the self-help section was. \ \ She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Landing Spotlight in Flightgear (I made it!!)
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roman Grigoriev) [2003.03.26 10:09]: Finally I made landing light support in flightgear! Awesome! Here is screenshots http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-screen-001.jpg http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-screen-002.jpg http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-screen-003.jpg http://fgfs.narod.ru/fgfs-screen-004.jpg I'm in the process of mirroring these images since your link is pretty slow for me here in the US. Mirror is here: http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Roman/ Thanks -- Cameron Moore / Now, it's quite simple to defend yourself \ \against a man armed with a banana. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] R/C transmitter support added to base package
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Selig) [2003.03.25 16:53]: I have just added R/C transmitter support to the FlightGear base package. To make it all work, one must have a supported radio and purchase an RCJOY USB box ($90) as well as a cable (~$12) from http://www.leweng.com. This USB box works with all major R/C brands: Futaba, Airtronics, JR, Hitec, Tower Hobbies, and Multiplex. A list of the specific radios is on the Lew Engineering web site (see the Support link). The cable depends on the brand. Have you got this working under Linux? I have one of these: http://www.rc-electronics.co.uk/usb.htm I've had it working under Windows before, but I've yet to have my 2.4 kernel bind it to a js[0-9] device. -- Cameron Moore [ What happens if you get scared half to death twice? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] P-51D 3D model progress
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2003.03.26 17:05]: Does anyone know anything about how the radio compass (ADF), upper left instrument should work? I'm not sure yet where the radio controls are (the radio actually sits behind the pilot seat). My biggest problem is not knowing what the second arrow is (the one with two white lines running lenghtwise) and whether or not the dial turns. There is only one knob so I suspect the dial is fixed. I'm not sure one way or the other, but I can show you some pictures that may help. See http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/P-51D/ADF/ Hope this helps. -- Cameron Moore [ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] where in the world is glut.h
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Howell Caton) [2003.03.26 23:14]: Hi! I'm having a few teething problems installing Flightgear. Right now I'm puzzled because I don't have glut.h on my system. Shouldn't it come with glut3.7-8. thanks! You didn't mention what OS/Distro you are using, but make sure you have the development package installed (usualy *-dev or *-devel). -- Cameron Moore [ There's no place like $HOME ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MILOAB?
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin Spott) [2003.03.23 17:53]: Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm...we have a flight model for that yet? We'd need a c-130 to roll it out of as well. Or would the j3 with the door open be good enough? :-) Hmmm, I think II remember a posting by Curt, meaning that FlightGear should remain free of armament. I'd love to see that this is still true, AFAIK, here[1] is our current position on this: No, we do not currently support combat. Most of our developers are primarily focused on civilian aviation. We aren't explicitly excluding these features -- we just haven't had anyone who seriously wanted to develop these areas. However, FlightGear does contain several military aircraft, albeit without munitions. [1] http://www.flightgear.org/Docs/FlightGear-FAQ.html#7.4 -- Cameron Moore [ Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Screenshots: Curt's scenery improvements
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.03.20 14:40]: Martin Spott writes: Gene Buckle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: flightgear.distributed.net. :) If someone provides a portable distribution mechanism for distributed scenery generation, then I think I can provide some horsepower for this, The big problem is that scenery building is much more slanted towards data shuffling (i.e. reading and writing files is typically the largest component of the task.) There is a computational component but it is generally small in comparison. When you think about distributing the tasks, the bottle necks are almost all in the file loading and saving. Locally I have about 220Gb of HD space dedicated towards storing the original raw data. The intermediate preprocessed form of the data. The shared edge data. And the final scenery. If we get SRTM data for the whole world, that will have to jump up substantially. For scenery building I'd love to have at least an 8-16 node cluster with really high bandwidth/ low latency net between them, a terrabyte of scsi disk space, and probably a big air conditioner to keep the room cool. :-) (Seriously, when you start thinking about building large clusters of PC's, you quickly get to the point where the largest cost of the entire system is the cost of keeping it cool.) But, in the absence of winning the lottery, I have to live with whatever hardware I can scrape together. :-) I agree. The operations are I/O bound, not CPU bound (kind of like a mail server), so a distributed.net-type application would probably prove less beneficial than we would hope. Many universities and research institutions are benefitting from FlightGear's progress. Having the ability to out-source much of the hard work of building a flight simulator, it seems like they could afford to donate a small amount of money to enable FlightGear to continue to grow ever-better. Having said that, I would be more apt to support a distributed funding campaign. PS - Speaking of funding issues, did I see that Steve Baker landed an LGP programming job? PPS - I forget the company, but there's a back-cover ad in the most recent Linux Journals where you can enter to receive a $50K research grant by applying in this company's contest. Long shot, but I thought I'd mention it. ;-) -- Cameron Moore / If a person with multiple personalities threatens \ \ suicide, is that considered a hostage situation? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Teaser
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2003.03.18 22:35]: Here's a shot of the p51d as is so far. http://www.spiderbark.com/fgfs/p51dshot7.png Just finished (most of) the exterior texturing. I'd like to nominate Jim for Employee Of The Month. :-) That's looks awesome, Jim. Can't wait to see this and Jon's FDM model in action. OT: PS - I'm listening to the D.C. Combat Air Patrols right now. Kinda cool... http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/shoutcast-playlist.pls?rn=1949108file=filename.pls -- Cameron Moore [ How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Usage
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2003.03.09 15:29]: Is there a recent updated options list for FlightGear, or is fgfs --help fgfs --help gives you an abridged version of the options. use --verbose,-v with --help,-h to see all the options. -- Cameron Moore / Why do we refer to a crazy person as \ \ insane. Shouldn't we say outsane? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] Base CVS update:FlightGear/FlightGear/Textures.high/Terrain
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Erik Hofman) [2003.03.05 14:39]:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
New hi-res irregular crop texture.
For eye-candy fetischitsts (is this an english word?)
http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/download/irrcrop.jpg
Weight On Wheels
--
Cameron Moore
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] [OT] FlightGear and the US Military
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2003.02.27 15:02]: John Check writes: Yes, I know. Actually I con't care about this too much (it _was_ meant to be a joke), so if someone want's to use FlightGear to driver their toilet flusher, go ahead! H Honestly, I hesitated before I sent this out, but in the end, I just couldn't stop myself. I always liked flightgear because it combined my two favorite activities ... computers and aviation ... now the thought of combining this with a 3rd favorite activity ... this could be just the answer to finding more time to work on FlightGear. I do my best thinking under pressure??? Ok that's enough, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry ... I should have just left it at Hm. I was going to make a joke about FG not supporting the dropping of bombs, but... ;-p -- Cameron Moore [ Some things are true even though Microsoft says they are. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-cvslogs] Hi
Doh! Sorry for letting this onto -cvslogs. I wasn't paying attention to which list I was looking at. I think I need some sleep... * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris) [2003.02.18 23:03]: Hi, I would like to edit the clouds, but where I can find the *.cld format tools for? about this post http://seneca.me.umn.edu/pipermail/flightgear-cvslogs/2002-September/002662.html Chris -- Cameron Moore [ How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Aircraft updates in CVS
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Stockill) [2003.01.09 16:35]: BTW, should anyone want to mess with the Airfield database I'm working on, you can find it here: http://www.stockill.org.uk/fgfs/ Don't thrash it too much - it's on the end of my DSL line at the moment. The diagram generation is *almost* correct, still needs more work though. Very cool: http://www.stockill.org.uk/fgfs/view.php?ident=KDFW This may be a known issue, but here's one problem I saw: http://www.stockill.org.uk/fgfs/view.php?ident=CYMX It draws outside the boundaries of the image for me at CYMX. Great work though. This is awesome. -- Cameron Moore [ I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-announce] Two new papers added to website.
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2002.12.20 14:43]: Erik Hofman writes: I think I should have stated this a little more clear (In this case I used the Dutch grammar to express an English sentence the wrong way, I expect this might happen every once in a while in the feature). To state it clear: I do like to be noticed of all those projects using FlightGear as the base (or a sub part) of their effort. I was actually a bit sarcastic about X-plane because they (he) had a story like this on it's introduction page, but never mind this question anymore ... :-/ Although it might be time to place a picture or two of this (and the realistic Wright Flyer) on the index page. Ok, I've put both of those as news items on the web page, but these days you have to scroll down to see the news items so I doubt most people even see them ... Either I need to get some sleep or the papers are not linked to from the /Docs/ page. Which is it? -- Cameron Moore [ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: [Flightgear-announce] Two new papers added to website.
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2002.12.20 22:59]: Cameron Moore writes: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Olson) [2002.12.20 14:43]: Erik Hofman writes: I think I should have stated this a little more clear (In this case I used the Dutch grammar to express an English sentence the wrong way, I expect this might happen every once in a while in the feature). To state it clear: I do like to be noticed of all those projects using FlightGear as the base (or a sub part) of their effort. I was actually a bit sarcastic about X-plane because they (he) had a story like this on it's introduction page, but never mind this question anymore ... :-/ Although it might be time to place a picture or two of this (and the realistic Wright Flyer) on the index page. Ok, I've put both of those as news items on the web page, but these days you have to scroll down to see the news items so I doubt most people even see them ... Either I need to get some sleep or the papers are not linked to from the /Docs/ page. Which is it? First bullet item under the FGFS Papers and Presentations section of the docs page ... unless you are looking at a mirror that hasn't been updated yet ... Hmm...guess that's what I get for running Debian unstable. :-) Galeon didn't retrieve the newer version. I think I'll go to bed anyway. Thanks :-) -- Cameron Moore [ I tried to draw my shadow once, but my arm kept moving. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Texture border (ATI performance issue)
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.12.19 07:25]: Norman Vine writes: For whatever reason, none of my posts seem to get through there. Dunno if that's a sourceforge thing or what... Sounds like a local problem as I see your posts to plib-devel from here and they also show in the lists web interface at SourceForge On my system, I use procmail to sort messages into separate lists. When someone crossposts to flightgear-devel and plib-devel (for example), both messages end up in the flightgear-devel folder, because that rule fires first, so it just looks like a duplicate posting. ## [EMAIL PROTECTED] :0: * ^Sender:.*[EMAIL PROTECTED] lists.flightgear-devel ## [EMAIL PROTECTED] :0: * ^Sender:.*[EMAIL PROTECTED] lists.plib-users -- Cameron Moore [ Do they give pilots crash courses in flight school? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Request for updates on Developer Locations and FAQ
Man, I've been busy with real life lately[1][2], so I need you guys to tell me what I need to know in order to update the FAQ[3] and Developer Locations page[4]. If you have any questions you are tired of answering, send me the question and answer, and I'll work it into the FAQ. Some things have changed recently as well, so if you notice anything in the FAQ that is incorrect, please let me know. It's been a couple months since I've had a chance to actually play with FG, so I've sort of out of the loop. :-( Also, if you are a developer and wish to be listed on our locations page, follow the directions at the bottom of that page to get your info to me. Thanks for your help. [1] http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20021206.html [2] I've actually been through that dilbert situation twice now, so I'm doing the work of 3 people these days. :-/ [3] http://flightgear.org/Docs/FlightGear-FAQ.html [4] http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Developers/Developers.html -- Cameron Moore [ How can there be self-help groups? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] terrasync
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.12.05 09:45]: Christian Mayer writes: The missing functionality is the ability to figure out if the tile has changed IIRC. But that'n no problem - HTTP already supports that. IIRC it send's a status code of 302 if the reqested data didn't change... Exactly -- as long as the files are available unpacked in the standard directory structure via HTTP, everything should work just the same. We would need to preserve the timestamp for the 302 code stuff to work. The biggest difference between rsync and HTTP is that rsync downloads diffs[1] while HTTP must download the entire file. This is a big plus for people with slow connections. I guess _my_ question in regard to rsync is how much would rsync actually help in our case. If a tile is changed -- say we fixed a runway or something -- would a diff accomplish anything since we have binary scenery files that are also gzipped? Would the rolling checksums that rsync does all end up being different, so we are always downloading the entire file anyway? If this is the case, then rsync's main advantage is worthless to us. [1] ftp://rsync.samba.org/pub/rsync/tech_report.ps -- Cameron Moore / Why are they called buildings, when they're already \ \ finished? Shouldn't they be called builts? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] PA-28-161 C-FBJO
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.12.05 10:02]: After a few months of dithering, searching, and researching, I've bought a used plane, a 1979 160 HP Piper Warrior II with (mostly) King IFR radios. It will be at least a few days before I actually take legal ownership, but it is parked safely at the flying club waiting for me. I am quite impressed with the handling compared to the 172's I've flown. Here are some pics: http://www.megginson.com/private/C-FBJO/ For those of you that haven't been here for long, the same David Megginson made the following post back in April about his disappointing first training flight: ... I'd say that there's a 55% chance I won't continue flying ... http://mail.flightgear.org/pipermail/flightgear-devel/2002-April/006392.html Congrats, David. You inspire us. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] terrasync
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2002.12.04 13:21]: I just tried this last night. Curt, this rocks. I haven't tried it, but I can't wait to do so. I think you have to give serious thought to enabling this by default, either by adding it to the fgfs binary or by having fgfs spawn it as a child. It turns the job of downloading, installing and updating scenery from an annoying sysadmin chore into a trivial noop that your proverbial grandmother could use. This is a huge, huge win. Hiding it inside a separate executable and requiring special command line arguments is doing casual users a major disservice -- they *want* this feature. (Sure, some will want the ability to disable it. But the majority of users will see a lot of benefit from having it on by default.) http://librsync.samba.org/ It's LGPL'd and pre-1.0. Here's their current TODO list from CVS: http://cvs.samba.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/librsync/TODO?rev=1.31content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup Related to the above, you'll probably want to segregate a release scenery directory from the development scenery to prevent incompatible changes from being pushed to users without current code. I agree. It occurs to me that if fgfs tries to load a scenery tile while rsync is still pulling, you will get corrupt tile and (worst case) crash the tile parser. Is there a need for locking or protection against this sort of thing? Just a mail-spool-style dot lock should be sufficient -- if FlightGear sees a .terrasync-in-progress file, it can refuse to load the directory. [This is the cue for someone to jump in with a discussion about all the dangers and pitfalls of different locking mechanisms on different filesystems.] Apologies if a feature like this is already in there, I haven't read the code. Locking an entire directory would be bad thing. We would want to do per-file locks. The simplest cross-platform solution is a .lock file for a given file. Using flock or equivalent would be a bit more complicated, but I'm not familiar with anything other than Linux. Couldn't we have a simple filelock function in SG with a bunch of #ifdef's each platform's implementation? I assume most OSes have the same abilities -- exclusive write, read, or both. Again, magnificent feature. I love it. Yes, I can't wait to play with it. -- Cameron Moore __END__ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] terrasync
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christian Mayer) [2002.12.04 14:05]: Norman Vine wrote: Andy Ross writes: I think you have to give serious thought to enabling this by default, Great idea, got a URL for a native WIN32 version of rsync ?? IMHO we should switch to HTTP. This avoids firewall problems and clients are also easy to get. Are you playing with FG at work? :-) -- Cameron Moore [ I have an inferiority complex. But it's not a very good one. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ATI vs. Linux
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2002.11.29 15:14]:
Martin Spott wrote:
Andy Ross wrote:
Probably most of you noticed last week that ATI has released a unified
linux driver package for all of their 8x00/9x00 cards. [...]
Wohoo, you made it into /. with this article. I would not wonder if this
boosts FlightGear popularity :-)
Judging by ATI's reply, you might be able to make Slashback too. :-)
I was hoping to see some interest in FlightGear in all the responses,
but most of it was the standard slashdot nonsense**. Curt will have
to tell us if he sees any new mailing list subscriptions. The
statistics at http://seneca.me.umn.edu show a little peak over the
past few days and about 6000 hits on the slashdot link, but not a
whole lot of change.
Unfortunately(?), we got a /. post on a holiday, so we will not get the
response that we might have otherwise. It's good for Curt since we
didn't /. UMN's network, but for the project bad from a PR standpoint.
As for the mailing list subscriptions, we've had about 7 individuals
subscribe to various lists over the past two days. We normally have
about 1 or two people a day (I'm considering hacking up a perl script to
make a graph of it right now...hmm...).
We are a pretty popular spam target though. I usually delete 5+ spams a
day that are caught for not being list members. Actually, one day a few
weeks ago, someone put us on their massive spam mailing list or
something. We received nearly 200 messages in one day, many of which
were people replying to the list saying STOP THIS SHTUFF! It's all in
/dev/null if anyone wants to read it later. :-)
--
Cameron Moore
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Presets menu
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.11.18 15:47]: I created a /sim/presets area in the property manager which is where all the FDM initial conditions can be batched up. Things like: snip/ runway (i.e. 1R) snip/ Woohoo! That's been on my wishlist[1] from when I first started using FG. Nice work, Curt. [1] http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Wishlist.html -- Cameron Moore / Just think how much deeper the ocean \ \ would be if sponges didn't live there / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Sopwith Camel model added
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Selig) [2002.11.10 13:21]: At 11/10/02, Jim Wilson wrote: What a great addition to the fleet! Beautiful 3D model too. Would you or A.F. Scrub mind if I converted that to ac3d? The purpose would be to convert the textures to rgb, alpha the prop disk, animate, and add 3D instrumentation similar to the j3cub (which would involve a few cockpit geometry adjustments). This might be a few weeks away, but thought I'd ask. I'd be thrilled to see what you could do to improve the 3D model. I'll check w/ AF Scrub. Interesting. I'm probably blowing this way out of proportion, but I like legal brain teasers. :-) Do we need to get a clarification from AF Scrub what source means? The GPL requires that the source be treated a certain way. In the case of GPLing 3D models, it should be established what source form is. Do any changes we make have to be made available in MSFS format? It would be nice if we had an open model format that we could say, Format XYZ is considered 'source form' for all 3D models. MSFS, 3dsMax, etc are considered 'compiled forms.' And then follow the GPL accordingly, just like we do with the source package. -- Cameron Moore / If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around \ \to see it, do the other trees make fun of it? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2002.10.24 08:49]: quickest fix would be to fix the SG_LOG level of that output to be disabled with --without-logging. The best fix might be to enable full run-time logging control. I have commented out all the sun position information stuff in my own build in the past and the pauses go away. As someone else has said, Does SimGear not have runtime control of logging!? Jon Yes, it does have runtime control of logging. You turn if off by using the --without-logging configure option. I believe David M. placed the log level control into the property tree in FG a while back, but I think it may be a bitmask, so you will need to know the bit values of the different log levels in order to set it properly. Don't quote me on that though -- I haven't looked at the code or property tree in forever. -- Cameron Moore / Just think how much deeper the ocean \ \ would be if sponges didn't live there / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear 0.8.0 on Win98SE
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon S Berndt) [2002.10.24 12:08]: On Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:30:29 -0700 Andy Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Bytheway wrote: We really ought to sort out the ability to disable *any* console output after initialisation on Windows... Is it maybe time to revisit the priority of most of the log messages? I mean, the vast majority of these things are debugging output for code that is mature and stable. Even most developers don't care about tile cache behavior anymore. I agree with this. At the least, we ought to have different levels of output for the released binaries on the web site - those who download the binaries are (I would think) users who could care less about the console output - and indeed might find it confusing. The default there should be for less console output. Also, I feel that some things such as the solution and landing reports are generally useful and of interest, but perhaps they could be made optional as well. For instance the user, after landing, requests a landing report from a Reports menu. The information can be passed up into FlightGear easily enough from JSBSim, at least. I mentioned in another thread that I thought the log levels where configurable at runtime, and I've confirmed that they are. The property is /sim/logging/priority. It defaults to info, but you can change it to warn or alert to quell the verbose logging. We might want to set the log level to warn in the base package when we make a public release. Beyond that, I agree with Andy. There are a lot of messages that just don't seem like useful info to most of us, but fall more under the debug umbrella. We hardly use the bulk priority; maybe we can move the debug messages to bulk and move some of the info messages down to debug. And when I say we, I mean someone else. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ If God was a perl hacker: ($child = 'grave') =~ s/v/c/; ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] DC-3
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Doug Pomerenke) [2002.10.21 21:22]: On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 22:32, KD wrote: Someone told me you had a 3D model of a DC-3. I have max but don't know it that well, I keep tinkering with it when time allows. I wanted to add new models to game call Battle Field 1942. Is it a max file you have or 3ds? Do you have any plans on introducing a damage model? To my knowledge, no. Noone has expressed any interest to work on a damage model at this point. I think it would be a welcome addition to FG, but there are currently more important things that are being worked on. So, unless a newcomer wants to work on it, it won't get done for a while because I think the current gang of developers are working on other areas right now. Feel free to jump in and get your feet wet. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ Why isn't the word, phonetically spelled with an f? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Free At Last
I figured David would have said something by now, but Blender was open-sourced a couple days ago. This is great news for the open-source community (ie. us). Go check it out: http://www.blender.org/ Feel free to write some tutorials for us modelling newbies. ;-) Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ My grandfather died when he was just an infant. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FWIW
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2002.10.13 00:02]: Cameron Moore Ooh! So you run a 64-bit C compiler! No, but I know Perl! When I get a chance, I try to port anything Norman does in python to perl just because I know he hates it. hehe ;-p This should help http://starship.python.net/crew/da/jak/cookbook.html and you can use this when you get stuck http://www.equi4.com/minotaur/minotaur.html but FWIW I just cheat http://www.crazy-compilers.com/bridgekeeper/ Interesting stuff. I can't help but point out that bridgekeeper is written in perl. ;-) Thanks for the links -- Cameron Moore [ Shouldn't we refer to Bigfoot as Bigfeet? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FWIW
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Julian Foad) [2002.10.11 12:05]:
Cameron Moore wrote:
Also while I'm here, I wanted to mention that I get around 3 spams per
day to the flightgear lists that noone ever sees (I'm the primary
moderator if you haven't picked that up yet). The moderating is working
out pretty well I think.
Yes, it must be because I haven't noticed anything. My day job is
firmware for building control systems (ventilation, heating, lighting
etc.) so the same criterion applies: if the customers don't notice it
then it is working well.
I've learned from being a sysadmin that from time to time you should
remind everyone why they have it so well; otherwise, they only remember
what you do when things go wrong.
trying_to_make_myself_seem_more_useful('ly yours');
Ooh! So you run a 64-bit C compiler!
No, but I know Perl! When I get a chance, I try to port anything Norman
does in python to perl just because I know he hates it. hehe ;-p
--
Cameron Moore
[ The reason why I can't sleep at night: 0.9.. = 1 ]
___
Flightgear-devel mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS question...
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Law) [2002.09.19 17:47]: After many newbie-fied mistakes and misunderstanding I have now setup /home/cvsroot on my linux box and checked out up-to-date copies of the devel releases into: /home/cvsroot/SimGear /home/cvsroot/FlightGear /home/cvsroot/fgfsbase I also have a stable and working FGFS 0.8 which I'd like to keep (to play with if I bugger up the CVS version!). How do you guys compile a development version beside a stable one without it interfering? In other words what do you specify to ./configure when compiling these sources to keep them from starting a fist fight with each other? I don't think anyone replied to you main question, so I'll share with you how I have everything setup. First of all, I never alter my real CVS directories -- I work on copies of them. For example, here's my FG paths: /archive/incoming/flightgear/cvs/fgfs/Makefile /archive/incoming/flightgear/cvs/fgfs/FlightGear/ /archive/incoming/flightgear/cvs/fgfs/local/ /archive/incoming/flightgear/cvs/fgfs/localbuild/ My Makefile looks like this: all: rm -rf ./local ./localbuild cp -a ./FlightGear local mkdir localbuild lndir -silent ../local ./localbuild So, what I do is cd to /archive/incoming/flightgear/cvs/fgfs/FlightGear and update my local CVS checkout. Then go back a directory and run `make` to get a clean development copy. I do all my local work in the localbuild/ directory. If I make changes, I cd back into the real CVS directory and do a diff like so: $ diff -urN . ../local I make no promises about this setup -- no warranty whatsoever. :-) I only do small updates and bugfixes so I never really need to keep a development tree around for a long time. You'll have to talk to some of the other real developers if you want to do that. :-) -- Cameron Moore / One cannot guess the real difficulties \ \ of a problem before having solved it. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Website updates
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.07.22 11:48]: Norman Vine writes: FWIW IMHO pictures do not belong on the main page at all !!! I'm not a graphics fan myself. I hate Flash pages (with an intensity that would scare many of you), I hate big logos, I hate complex layout, etc. etc. I like to make my own Web pages work well not only under lynx but on my cell phone text display. On the other hand, when I go looking at other open-source projects' home pages, what I almost always want to find is 1. a screenshot snip/ I agree with both of you. I don't like the current homepage. It's rather ugly with the 8 thumbnails spread out over the page. I do like having a 'state of our art' screenshot though. I'd suggest adding one or two thumbnails just before the ToC. If you want to see more, then go to the galleries where all other screenshots should go. A related nit I have with the current homepage snapshots is that they show things we don't currently have in FG, ie. rivers, roads, etc. I think we should stick with what is actually in CVS, not what David (or anyone) has cooked up on their home box. We should show people what they should expect to see when they download FG, not what they will see after an overnight scenery building process... -- Cameron Moore [ How do they get the deer to cross at that yellow road sign? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FW: [Plib-devel] ssg vertex tables tuning
OS = Linux 2.4.18 CPU = P3-500 GFX = GF2 GTS 32MB VER = CVS from yesterday Default startup went from 13 fps to 16 fps = +23% I should note that I compiled everything with no optimizations and no in-lines since I've been using valgrind a lot lately. * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Norman Vine) [2002.07.09 20:34]: Hi All I got a considerable boost in the frame rate from the following patch to PLib. ~25% at default startup location I am trying to determine if this also true for 'most' systems before advocating it's inclusion into PLib If you do test this please report back with your results and system type OS, CPU, GFX card Thanks Norman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Darrell Walisser Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 10:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Plib-devel] ssg vertex tables tuning Hi all, While running FlightGear, I noticed a problem with PLIB's vertex tables. The implementation is fine, but performance was hideous on Mac OS X (like 5fps), even on a fast G4. I'm really curious if this is also a problem on other OS's. After some examination, it seems the majority of FlightGear's geometry is rendered in small triangle fans, of 5-10 vertices each, with the occasional big lump of vertices in a detailed area. Why is this a problem? Well, it turns out that the setup time for vertex arrays is actually slower than glVertex3fv() etc because there are so few vertices per table. So, I coded a solution that only kicks into the vertex array code if the number of vertices is beyond a certain threshold, otherwise it uses glVerte3fv(). I picked 25 as the lower bound for vertex arrays, but this value is probably highly system-dependent and we might want to make it configurable either at build-time or run-time. Here's the code (for ssgVtxTable.cxx). Having different versions of the inner loop is probably overkill, but you get the idea: snip/ -- Cameron Moore / I put tape on the mirrors in my house so I don't \ \ accidentally walk through into another dimension. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] PATCH: various fixes and cleanups
Attached are two patches: one for simgear, and one for flightgear.
The changes are mostly minor except for a few fixes to uninitialized
variables found by valgrind. Here's the list of changes:
== Changes in simgear-cleanups.diff:
simgear/misc/props.cxx
* Rearranged member initializers to shut gcc -Wall up
simgear/sky/sky.cxx
* Fixed (un)signed comparison
== Changes in flightgear-cleanups.diff:
src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx
* Fixed uninitialized MaxAileron value (set to 0.5)
src/Cockpit/kr_87.cxx
* Fixed uninitialized values
src/Cockpit/steam.cxx
* Rearranged member initializers to shut gcc -Wall up
src/Input/input.cxx
* Fixed (un)signed comparisons
* Rearranged member initializers
src/Main/viewer.cxx
* Rearranged member initializers
src/Model/model.cxx
* Fixed (un)signed comparisons
src/Sound/fg_sound.cxx
* Rearranged member initializers
Thanks
--
Cameron Moore
[ Where do forest rangers go to get away from it all? ]
diff -urN ../FlightGear/src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx ./src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx
--- ../FlightGear/src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx Mon Jul 8 22:59:43 2002
+++ ./src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx Tue Jul 9 01:20:05 2002
-305,6 +305,9
// 25% max control variablilty 0.5 / 2.0
disengage_threshold = 1.0;
+// set default aileron max deflection
+MaxAileron = 0.5;
+
#if !defined( USING_SLIDER_CLASS )
MaxRollAdjust = 2 * MaxRoll;
RollOutAdjust = 2 * RollOut;
diff -urN ../FlightGear/src/Cockpit/kr_87.cxx ./src/Cockpit/kr_87.cxx
--- ../FlightGear/src/Cockpit/kr_87.cxx Thu Jul 4 14:37:06 2002
+++ ./src/Cockpit/kr_87.cxx Tue Jul 9 01:28:59 2002
-76,6 +76,8
need_update(true),
valid(false),
inrange(false),
+dist(0.0),
+heading(0.0),
goal_needle_deg(0.0),
et_flash_time(0.0),
ant_mode(0),
diff -urN ../FlightGear/src/Cockpit/steam.cxx ./src/Cockpit/steam.cxx
--- ../FlightGear/src/Cockpit/steam.cxx Mon Jul 8 22:59:44 2002
+++ ./src/Cockpit/steam.cxx Mon Jul 8 23:56:20 2002
-54,21 +54,22
FGSteam::FGSteam ()
- : the_STATIC_inhg(29.92),
+ :
the_ALT_ft(0.0),
the_ALT_datum_mb(1013.0),
-the_VSI_case(29.92),
-the_VSI_fps(0.0),
+the_TC_rad(0.0),
+the_TC_std(0.0),
+the_STATIC_inhg(29.92),
the_VACUUM_inhg(0.0),
-the_MH_err(0.0),
+the_VSI_fps(0.0),
+the_VSI_case(29.92),
the_MH_deg(0.0),
the_MH_degps(0.0),
-the_DG_err(0.0),
+the_MH_err(0.0),
the_DG_deg(0.0),
the_DG_degps(0.0),
the_DG_inhg(0.0),
-the_TC_rad(0.0),
-the_TC_std(0.0),
+the_DG_err(0.0),
_UpdateTimePending(100)
{
}
diff -urN ../FlightGear/src/Input/input.cxx ./src/Input/input.cxx
--- ../FlightGear/src/Input/input.cxx Mon Jul 8 22:59:50 2002
+++ ./src/Input/input.cxx Tue Jul 9 00:09:26 2002
-403,12 +403,12
// so we can play with it.
if (x != m.x) {
int delta = x - m.x;
-for (int i = 0; i mode.x_bindings[modifiers].size(); i++)
+for (unsigned int i = 0; i mode.x_bindings[modifiers].size(); i++)
mode.x_bindings[modifiers][i]-fire(double(delta), double(xsize));
}
if (y != m.y) {
int delta = y - m.y;
-for (int i = 0; i mode.y_bindings[modifiers].size(); i++)
+for (unsigned int i = 0; i mode.y_bindings[modifiers].size(); i++)
mode.y_bindings[modifiers][i]-fire(double(delta), double(ysize));
}
-487,7 +487,7
std::cout Looking for bindings for joystick \
name '' std::endl;
vectorSGPropertyNode_ptr nodes = js_nodes-getChildren(js-named);
- for (int i = 0; i nodes.size(); i++) {
+ for (unsigned int i = 0; i nodes.size(); i++) {
SGPropertyNode_ptr node = nodes[i];
std::coutTrying \ node-getStringValue(name) '' std::endl;
if (!strcmp(node-getStringValue(name), name)) {
-968,10 +968,10
FGInput::mouse::mouse ()
- : nModes(1),
-current_mode(0),
-x(-1),
+ : x(-1),
y(-1),
+nModes(1),
+current_mode(0),
modes(0)
{
}
diff -urN ../FlightGear/src/Main/viewer.cxx ./src/Main/viewer.cxx
--- ../FlightGear/src/Main/viewer.cxx Wed May 29 20:03:38 2002
+++ ./src/Main/viewer.cxx Tue Jul 9 00:22:18 2002
-132,8 +132,6
// Constructor
FGViewer::FGViewer( fgViewType Type, bool from_model, int from_model_index, bool
at_model, int at_model_index, double x_offset_m, double y_offset_m, double z_offset_m,
double near_m ):
-_scaling_type(FG_SCALING_MAX),
-_fov_deg(55.0),
_dirty(true),
_lon_deg(0),
_lat_deg(0),
-144,11 +142,13
_roll_deg(0),
_pitch_deg(0),
_heading_deg(0),
-_heading_offset_deg(0),
-_pitch_offset_deg(0),
_roll_offset_deg(0),
+_pitch_offset_deg(0),
+_heading_offset_deg(0),
+_goal_pitch_offset_deg(0.0),
_goal_heading_offset_deg(0.0
[Flightgear-devel] Splash screens
I decided to make a couple splash screens out of some nice screenshots, and I'm curious how they look on other systems -- mainly if they are too dark. They are straight out of FG -- no tampering except for the text, of course. If you want to test them, you can get them from here: http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Splash/ One is of the A-4 during an initial climb with runway lights in the background. The other is an overhead shot of the c172 at dusk. If you try these out, let me know what you think. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Antialiased GLUT fonts
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Ross) [2002.06.27 23:11]: I wrote: FlightGear folks: how do you want to handle this? Obligatory screenshot: http://www.plausible.org/andy/newfont.png Obligatory exclamation: woohoo! Nice! -- Cameron Moore / I asked the librarian where the self-help section was. \ \ She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Remove .cvsignore?
Personally, I agree with Fred. The number of people who will actually be using a custom cvsignore will be far fewer than those of us who will not. Can you make your custom cvsignore read-only so cvs can't stomp on it? * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frederic BOUVIER) [2002.06.26 07:09]: Yes, but people can always modify their own version, even if they are already in CVS. I still don't see the benefit of having all those ? lines. If you want to remove the burden of maintaining per-directory .cvsignore, put one in /CVSROOT and you're set for the whole tree. Cheers, -Fred Messsage du 26/06/2002 13:07 De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] A : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copie ? : Objet : Re: [Flightgear-devel] Remove .cvsignore? Frederic Bouvier writes: What is the rational of doing that ? To let people create their own, local, customized .cvsignore files instead (those who care, that is). David -- Cameron Moore [ When sign makers go on strike, what do they picket with? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Norman and others: what code editors do ya'll recommend
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ima sudonim) [2002.06.20 13:20]: Norman, I'm glad that you brought that up (it was my next question): What code editors do people recommend using? I can sort-of use vi, the one time I started emacs, I couldn't exit the darn thing. My experience with emacs started out exactly like that. :-) I later tried learning emacs but got tired of having to hit Ctrl+something to do anything. My personal preference is VIM. I use it for mail (mutt+vim) and programming (mostly in perl). FlightGear is the only large C/C++ project I'm involved with, so I've never felt like moving to a powerful IDE such as emacs. My poor man's IDE consists of a bunch of rxvt terminals running vim and gdb. :-) Having a large monitor helps. If you want to try vim, there are some great scripts and tips here: http://vim.sourceforge.net/ I still haven't tried this, but you can check out this script for using vim with gdb: http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=84 Thanks -- Cameron Moore / Officer, I know I was going faster than 55MPH, \ \ but I wasn't going to be on the road an hour. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] blue angel
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon S Berndt) [2002.06.18 09:31]: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:07:04 -0500 (CDT) Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melchior FRANZ writes: Wow, what a beautiful model. Shiny blue steel, perfectly animated. Many thanks! I'd be interested to know what is being talked about. Screen shot? Me too, but I think they are probably talking about the YASim A-4. Somebody* made changes to it yesterday, and it's the only aircraft in FG that the Blue Angels used to fly. (*) Any chance we can get the fgfs-base cvs server to tell us who commits changes? -- Cameron Moore / Beauty is skin deep, but ugly goes right to the bone. If \ \ that's the case, I pity the person who's only skin and bones. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] a4 panel
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2002.06.18 21:30]: Can anyone ID the left two instruments in the top row and the left most in the bottom row? http://www.avsim.com/pages/0801/a4c/shot02.jpg I looked in a T-37 manual I have here, and found an instrument that is probably exactly like the top, leftmost instrument in that screenshot. It's the Exhaust Temperature gauge (you can barely make out EXH. TEMP in the screenshot). On the T-37 the text on the bottom of the gauge reads oC X 100 with the o being a degree symbol. I'm still unsure of the other two instruments you asked about. I'll keep digging. -- Cameron Moore [ Why is the word dictionary in the dictionary? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Warbird instrument photos
For the panel designers out there, I stumbled onto a good site with closeup photos of some individual instruments from WWII era warbirds here: http://www.bjaircraft.com/ Enjoy. -- Cameron Moore / Why do people without a watch look at their \ \ wrist when you ask them what time it is? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Re: FlightGear FAQ
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank Barry) [2002.06.13 15:27]: Hi Cameron, Hello, Frank. I'm Cc'ing the flightgear-devel list in case someone wishes to add anything to my comments. FG developers: please Cc Frank with any replies. Could you point me to where I might find how to write an autopilot for an FG model? To my knowledge, there is no documentation on how the autopilot works or how it communicates with the FDMs. There is, however, plenty of good source code in src/Autopilot/. Are there standard programming interfaces to allow another program to read control inputs and generate control outputs (for example from take-off, through a seriew of waypoints, through landing)? Yes. The standard inferface for just about everything in FlightGear is the property tree. Look in src/Autopilot/newauto.cxx at FGAutopilot::init(). That should give you a general overview of how and what the current autopilot gets and sets in the property tree. If you have anymore questions, feel free to join the developer mailing list. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ Do people in Australia, call the rest of the world, Up Over ? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] problem with --airport-id=KDCA
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (ima sudonim) [2002.06.12 21:37]: Way cool app, ya'll, but I'm having some problems with airport ids. Attempting to run ./fgfs with any --airport-id option causes errors as shown below. The runway information is bad, I'm guessing. I am using base 7.11.pre1 (the only one supported by the latest cvs sources that I dled). Downloaded everything from CVS again and recompiled. Am still getting the same error. I'm new at this and am unsure how to even begin. I've tried KJFK, KDCA (washington, DC) and others to the same effect. If I use the default airport (KSFO), things start OK: *KSFO info is: NewAirportInit KSFO Attempting to set starting position from runway code KSFO heading 270 Runway 01L heading = 27.7 diff = 117.7 Runway -01L heading = 207.7 diff = 62.3 Runway 01R heading = 27.71 diff = 117.71 Runway -01R heading = 207.71 diff = 62.29 Runway 10L heading = 117.9 diff = 152.1 Runway -10L heading = 297.9 diff = 27.9 Runway 10R heading = 117.9 diff = 152.1 Runway -10R heading = 297.9 diff = 27.9 closest runway = 10L + 180 runway = -122.375, 37.6211 length = 1808.99 heading = 117.9 Position for KSFO is (-122.357, 37.6135) new heading is 297.9 Searching for airport code = KSFO idx = 11133 Position for KSFO is (-122.375, 37.619) *KDCA info is: NewAirportInit kdca Note that you are not using all caps. Try running with KDCA like you have in the Subject. I'm not at home right now, so I can't test this. -- Cameron Moore [ My grandfather died when he was just an infant. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Report on my Scenery Investigation
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.06.05 14:21]: Erik Hofman writes: Hmm, It would be nice if you could put your generated scenery somewhere so people could spot thr difference (and maybe make a vote afterwards). It sounds kind of cool ... :-) I have volume restrictions at my ISP and a lot of traffic to my site, so I cannot afford to put anything large there for download. If there are any volunteers, I'd be happy to send copies of my scenery for them to host. How large is the scenery generated by your recent tutorial? -- Cameron Moore [ So what's the speed of dark? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] new potential developer :)
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christian Stock) [2002.06.04 21:56]: Hi, Let me introduce myself, before I start with what I'm interested at. Hi. Let me start off by saying that the FG scenery has not been developed that much over the past year (IMHO), so there are plenty of opportunities for you to rack up geek-points. I had a first look at flightgear about 1.5 years ago, but decided to go with FS2K and got deeply involved in scenery creation (also done some panel work). The last year I spent mostly trying to crack FS2K2 bgls, and I probably know them better than anyone else who is not part of the M$ FS team. I have to say that I've had it know with the obvious complete stubbornness on Microsofts part to not provide any form of help to customize their simulator. All the time I have spent trying to do my own things, probably would have been spent better spent helping out here, and trying to incorporate the FS2K2 features into FG. I decided that I'd from now on rather help here, then continue to hit my head against the brick wall in Redmond. For everyone else, here's some of Christian's handywork: http://ftp.avsim.com/library/esearch.php?DLID=Name=FileName=Author=Christian+StockCatID=Root Looks good. What I would like to have a go at development wise (apart from converting my NZ data to FG scenery), The README from your NZ scenery on AVSim.com, states: You aren't allowed to distribute this scenery, or part of it, commercially or for any profit whatsoever. This being a derived product from the LINZ NZTopo Database makes it copyrighted data! Taking that statement at face value, I'm not sure we can include the scenery in the official FG scenery distribution since it conflicts with the GPL (which allows you to charge money for distribution). A pretty good example of this is Curt's CD page: http://www.infoplane.com/~curt/ is to improve the terrain in FG. The scenery generation side of FlightGear is covered under a sister project called TerraGear. See http://terragear.org/ and make sure you join the mailing lists. How is the LOD of the elevation mesh handled? To my knowledge, we do not currently do LOD for scenery. Also, are seasons implemented? Nope. The bitmaps could also look better, but I know someone who made a complete replacement set of the FS2K2 textures as freeware, they look really good and I think I can maybe organise something there :). One of the obstacles we face with using MSFS addons is that most are freeware and forbid selling or altering of the work. We have to explicitly get the authors to relicense their works as GPL (or Public Domain) for us to include them in the official FG distribution. And finally, the new 'autogen' feature of FS2K2 is one of the features I really like. Having autogenerated 3D objects depending on land use textures is just great (looks good and gives you more of a feel of 'beeing there'). I can also have a look into how this works in detail. I think someone has been experimenting with autogen, but I'm not sure how that development is going. Looking forward to get involved here. Me too. :-) Can't wait for you to replace Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 with FlightGear here: http://www.sli.unimelb.edu.au/people/staff/cstock.html If/When you actually do start actively developing FG, remind me to add you to this page (if you wish): http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Developers/Developers.html Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Star Flight Simulator
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marcio Shimoda) [2002.06.04 22:56]: What is this?? I asked the same question of myself when I first saw it, but I believe Arnt was archiving your website, presumably as evidence. :-) - Original Message - From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Star Flight Simulator On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:38:10 -0500, Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.06.03 13:47]: Anyone know what is going on with this product/project (Star Flight Simulator)? http://www.staridia.com/sfs/ [arnt@lana tldp.org-et-al]$ wget -m http://www.staridia.com/sfs/ ... FINISHED --02:17:39-- Downloaded: 2,209,457 bytes in 82 files [arnt@lana tldp.org-et-al]$ tree www.staridia.com/ www.staridia.com/ |-- _news\fenasoft.shtml |-- ban_saga.gif |-- conflito ... -- Cameron Moore [ Do they give pilots crash courses in flight school? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Star Flight Simulator
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curtis L. Olson) [2002.06.03 13:47]: Anyone know what is going on with this product/project (Star Flight Simulator)? http://www.staridia.com/sfs/ I know a little spanish so I can bluff my way through the web site and get the general gist of things, but I'm sure I have missed most/all of the subtleties. Babel Fish[1] does a pretty good job of translating the Portuguese to English. If you start Babel Fish here: http://www.staridia.com/strdhome.shtml you can view the main page as well (BF doesn't like the redirect on the main index page). Under the Vendas (sales?) link it appears that they say all their products are currently under development so nothing is yet for sale. Here's the translation of that page: Our games still are in production phase, but we wait to place them in the market in briefing. When this to happen, you will be able to find information of where to buy our products here. I'm slightly concerned because I don't see anything on their site that explains how the FlightGear GPL license is being carefully honored. The only thing under the downloads section are two Star Flight Simulator logos. Agreed. I think we should confront them with our concerns before they make some bad decisions, not afterwards. [1] http://world.altavista.com/ -- Cameron Moore [ I'm writing an unauthorized autobiography. ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Flightgear review in FlightXPress
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Basler) [2002.06.01 10:44]: Dear developers, I received the June issue of FlightXPress, a German language (actually THE snip/ This issue has a one page review on Flightgear written by a Marc Stoering ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) who seems to belong to the editors (not sure about that). The test was done under Suse Linux 8.0 (which btw., gets good marks.) What version of FG did he review? Unfortunately the review on FG as such is negative. This are the main points: - Old-fashioned overall appearance (4 screenshots delivered, including KSFO + C172 panel), not to be compared with state-of-the art simulators - Very few functions compared to other simulators - Cockpits from yesterday - Some good 3D effects (sunset...) - Bad flight characteristics (sometimes planes react too sensitive, sometimes too sluggish), much worse than X-Plane - comparatively good frame rates - Weather + Scenery disappointing To be fair, they refer to the project as being free, open-source, multi platform and sketch the way development is done. Their summary: FlightGear is for a minority of technically advanced simmers who are prepared to go into programming only, but not for the normal simmer. I think this is a fair characterization of FlightGear relative to the commercial PC flight sim offerings. We all know the shortcomings of the current state of FG, and we're working to remove them -- all of the points listed above are being worked on. The main difference between FG and most other flight sims is that we're cross-platform, which takes a fair amount of work that these commercial outfits don't have to deal with. I hope the review made note of that. But anyway, no press is bad press, IMO. Maybe some people will read the review and want to help out -- I'm pretty sure the commercial flight sims can't say that. ;-) -- Cameron Moore / Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the \ \ same time. I think I've forgotten this before. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Flightgear review in FlightXPress
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Melchior FRANZ) [2002.06.01 11:23]: Finally: There's no alternative on Linux and other Unixes. For now...It's vapor-ware right now, but X-Plane is supposedly being ported to Linux. -- Cameron Moore / If a man says something in the woods and\ \ there are no women there, is he still wrong? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Missing Model Problem
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jon Berndt) [2002.05.30 20:45]: I have not been keeping track of changes on the JSBSim XML formats for several months, so I'll try to update the -180 definitions tonight and see what happens. I will let you know if I get anyway. I'm pretty busy these days, so I'd be happy to hand this off to a willing 3rd party to pick up the pieces. Anyway, I'll see what I can do tonight. Thanks You can probably just go ahead and write the model as you understand the JSBSim config file format. It hasn't changed much at all recently. Any recent changes should be easily and quickly fixable. I went through and updated the config that is currently in JSBSim CVS. There were only minor changes needed to get it looking like the c172 config. I did not make any changes to the aero coefs. I've uploaded all of my changes to here: http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/PA-28-180/latest/ There's a -set.xml file there too that I basically just copied from the c172. My tests show a strong tendency to roll left. I have to maintain about 60% right aileron to maintain level flight. Replacing the Clb coef with the c172 one seems to fix the problem, but I left the original coef in place for someone with more know-how than me to look at it. Also, the other most notible aero problem I can see is the data tied to flap deflection. Pitch and drag seem to be a little high relative to the flap positions, but I'm not sure. There are several places in the XML file that have NEEDS WORK or FIXME by them. The only major piece that we hadn't gotten to was the propulsion section. I believe the c172 defaults are still in place. Please feel free to do what you want with this aircraft. I've taken it about as far as I can (with Cameron Munro's help, of course). If you need any data, let me know, and I'll see if I can help. Thanks -- Cameron Moore / Every so often, I like to stick my head out the \ \ window, look up, and smile for a satellite photo. / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Recent observations
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2002.05.29 07:06]: Cameron Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Another problem I ran in to was that when starting at KHAF and cycling to the tower view, all hell breaks loose. The first time I got a fatal error trying to load a bogus tile. Subsequent tries just made the aircraft (default c172) bounce about 50 ft into the air. So, I repeated this in different FDMs and got this: AFAIK what you describe has been been fixed in CVS. It would be really great to have feedback on the lastest changes. Okay. I'll try to retest with the latest CVS this sometime this week. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ Shouldn't we refer to Bigfoot as Bigfeet? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Missing Model Problem
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.05.29 15:23]: I've fixed the missing model problem -- specifying a non-existant aircraft model (not any other kind) will default to the glider again rather than throwing an exception. I'll mark that off my list. :-) Thanks, David. By the way, the 747 model is looking good. I'm happy that we're building up a nice stable (er, hangar) of unencumbered, open-source aircraft models. What next? We're low on Pipers right now (both aero data and 3D models). Any favourites? We (the two Cameron's) have already done some FDM work on a Piper Cherokee PA-28-180. I have a pretty ugly looking 3-view, but I can send it to you if you want it. We really need someone to pick up on the aero file where we left off. We were close but had some bugs. I should the Roskam numbers and the aero files we left off on at home if you would like me to send them to you. Just say so, and I'll send them your way. Thanks -- Cameron Moore [ If God was a perl hacker: ($child = 'grave') =~ s/v/c/; ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Missing Model Problem
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gene Buckle) [2002.05.29 17:19]: Jim, have you tried GMAX? Can GMAX save to a format that plib can read? I was under the impression that it doesn't. -- Cameron Moore / If a person with multiple personalities threatens \ \ suicide, is that considered a hostage situation? / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Missing Model Problem
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.05.29 16:03]: Cameron Moore writes: We (the two Cameron's) have already done some FDM work on a Piper Cherokee PA-28-180. I have a pretty ugly looking 3-view, but I can send it to you if you want it. We really need someone to pick up on the aero file where we left off. We were close but had some bugs. I should the Roskam numbers and the aero files we left off on at home if you would like me to send them to you. Just say so, and I'll send them your way. Which Roskam did you find the Cherokee numbers in? Oops. I was mistaken. It's not Roskam -- it's McCormick, Aerodynamics, Aeronautics and Flight Mechanics, Appendix C. Cameron Munro sent me copies of it. You could rough-in a Cherokee in YASim first, just to have something to drive your model, then ... My model? I hope you mean that collectively since there's probably no way I'll ever be a 3D modeller. :-) I have not been keeping track of changes on the JSBSim XML formats for several months, so I'll try to update the -180 definitions tonight and see what happens. I will let you know if I get anyway. I'm pretty busy these days, so I'd be happy to hand this off to a willing 3rd party to pick up the pieces. Anyway, I'll see what I can do tonight. Thanks -- Cameron Moore / I think you can be an honest person and lie about any number \ \of things. -- Dan Rather talking about President Clinton / ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Developer Locations update
Many of you may be aware that I have a Developer Locations page[1] for FlightGear (similar to Debian's). It's completely unofficial, but I received a good response from everyone when I started it. Since then we've gained a few new contributers. So, if you contribute to FG and would like to be listed, just let me know. Thanks [1] http://unbeatenpath.net/software/fgfs/Developers/Developers.html PS - Just did my first -O1 -fno-inline compile, and I love it. Thanks, Andy -- Cameron Moore [ Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Recent observations
I finally had some time to play around with FG the other day (first time in a few weeks), so let me preface all of this with the fact that I'm not running the latest CVS. Mine is from May 18th. I don't have time to update and rebuild everything right now, so sorry. Now, on with the bugs... When in the tower view and the aircraft goes through a cloud layer, the tower view gets clouded. It looks like we are using the FDM altitude to draw the cloud fog but should be using the current view altitude. Another problem I ran in to was that when starting at KHAF and cycling to the tower view, all hell breaks loose. The first time I got a fatal error trying to load a bogus tile. Subsequent tries just made the aircraft (default c172) bounce about 50 ft into the air. So, I repeated this in different FDMs and got this: - JSBSim weird bouncing around - YASim freezes - LaRCSim weird bouncing and hovering around - UIUC doesn't seem to be working in my build (falls through ground) - UFO works fine And finally, while testing the above, I always got segfaults trying to Restart. I think someone already mentioned this, so it may be fixed already. Thanks -- Cameron Moore $\=Hacker;$,=another ;printJust ,Perl ; ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MSFS2k2 MDL file format documented?
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christian Mayer) [2002.05.24 11:21]: Wolfram Kuss wrote: Interesting. I have looked into the EULA, but not yet the docu iteself. The EULA says: 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights: Software Product. You may install and use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on an unlimited number of computers, including workstations, terminals or other digital electronic devices (COMPUTERS) to design, develop, and test software application products that are designed to operate in conjunction with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2002 and subsequent versions thereof, (Application). [...] All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Microsoft. I figured they would say something like that. So, is it possible for FG to operate in conjunction with [MSFS2k2]? ;-P Well, it looks like this doc is off limits for us. I guess we'll have to find a 3rd party MDL converter. As the EULA come after the purchase of the product (i.e. after it was downloaded), it has the same significance of the EULA you have to acceppt when you are installing a product. So -at least in Germany- you don't have to care about it at all. It's a change of contract that one party (M$) wants and offers to the other party (you). So you are free to accept it or discard it. Note: There's no hint about an EULA at the website and even worse (for M$) you don't have to accept it (e.g. by clicking on it) before you are downloading it. The way I see it, a EULA doesn't have to be clicked through or explicitly accepted through some procedure. The EULA ships with the product just like the GPL ships with FlightGear. Both are applicable and *using* each product implicitly means you accept the license. I know (via /.) that people have jumped through hoops to keep from clicking through a EULA, but it's pointless. We should respect Micros~1's EULA's just as much as we respect the GPL. -- Cameron Moore [ Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ANN: Boeing 747-400 model
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Wilson) [2002.05.24 21:54]: It needs textures and animation and quite a few adjustments, but it's in the Base package CVS now. The animation should be interesting...12 flaps, 4 aerilons, 4 elevators, 2 rudders...and there's a lot I left out. Enjoy! I gave it a test run, and it looks great! The only things I noticed that need fixing are the offset to get the model sitting on the ground correctly and there's a reference to a missing 747 panel in 747-yasim-set.xml. Other than that, I'm very impressed. Nice work. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ Why is the word dictionary in the dictionary? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] DC-3 ground handling. Fixed?
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Megginson) [2002.05.23 13:59]: Andy Ross writes: The tech drawings at http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc3tec/dc3tec.htm (especially the big one at the bottom) suggest to me an angle of incidence of 2-3 degrees, but I haven't printed them out and measured. As far as measuring aircraft dimensions and such, I use Gimp's measuring tool to measure things. Measure a known distance and record the length in pixels, then you can measure whatever else you want and do the pixel to feet conversions without haven't to print anything out. Pythagoras is your friend. :-) -- Cameron Moore [ Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? ] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
