Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
My suggestion: get a board from http://www.diolan.com/i2c/u2c12_doc/u2c_spi_config_ss_fun.html Bookmarked, I will read more about those products, but looks to beexpensive, I'm going for a cheaper (more homemade) solution. Suggestion accepted anyway, will think about. and 7-segment driver chips from Maxim (7219) I'm already driving the 7segments with the 7219 :-) One 7219 for each 5x7segments unit. Still using Arduino to do that. I'd like to build a complete KX165 unit replacement with a single Arduino (not that complex btw). -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
My suggestion: get a board from http://www.diolan.com/i2c/u2c12_doc/u2c_spi_config_ss_fun.html Bookmarked, I will read more about those products, but looks to beexpensive, I'm going for a cheaper (more homemade) solution. Suggestion accepted anyway, will think about. IIRC it was around $100.00, probably a bit of overkill for your project, but definitely a lot of capability for expansion, will drive up to 20 slaves plus a couple of GPIO pins, and other I/O features. They also provide excellent software support for both MS and Linux and 7-segment driver chips from Maxim (7219) I'm already driving the 7segments with the 7219 :-) One 7219 for each 5x7segments unit. Thats a nice chip, easy wiring and a couple of straight forward instructions. Still using Arduino to do that. I'd like to build a complete KX165 unit replacement with a single Arduino (not that complex btw). with the i2c board and an SPI bus, you need to design for longer cable runs to all your slaved devices and handle bus termination issues to prevent signal reflections corrupting the SPI protocol transmissions The Arduino looks interesting, your project gave me some ideas for wiring up the overhead panel and driving some servos and gauges, thanks for info John -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On 31/03/11 21:28, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Hallo everybody, I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz property using the rotary encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy. I'm working on something similar too: http://leeds.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Projects/FlightSimHardware The simplest solution seems to be to simply send the active and standby frequencies whenever there's a change (up/down of the standby frequency, or swap of active/standby), and define a protocol that expects the two frequencies, comma separated from the serial port. It doesn't appear to matter that there's not a continuous data stream - the last received value is used if there's no new data. I run the incoming protocol at 10Hz, which seems to give a quick enough response for the on screen version of the display. I'd like to be able to send values from flightgear back to the panel, so that updates to the properties are reflected on the radio panel hardware, but it appears I've got some bugs in my code at the moment (seems like a race condition or memory leak) that cause things to lock up or randomly reset. I need to get it hooked up to a JTAGICE to debug it. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On 03/04/11 15:04, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Good to know Jon, I'll be glad to talk about that with you. I like your hardware approach, getting your hands dirty on a naked ATMega16 should be fun too :-) It's interesting, and results in *much* smaller code than you'd get using the arduino libraries, and I was reasonably happy with gcc anyway which reduced the learning curve. It's nice to be able to just type make and have the code compiled and blasted onto the chip via an AVRISP2. I sort of went about this in the opposite direction to most people - I started out with the bare AVR stuff, and got an arduino at a later stage just for hacking quick projects with, though it's currently stuck in a fairly long term project: http://leeds.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Projects/Nav_Bot_I I've settled down on sending the standby-mhz only cause I will send the swap freq- button state too, that will swap the frequencies inside fgfs property tree itself, without the need to send the active freq too. Still I think it's better to make the external hardware send only the rotary encoder's rotations from a design perspective, and not the frequencies at all; I know that's debatable. I'm sending freq now for easy of development only. I agree sending only changing values should be more desirable but serially sent data should be sent all together, there's no way to send an input chunk and leaving the others as-is; since my approach aims at integrating several (not thousands but quite a few anyway!) physical input/output devices, I think for simplicity everything should be sent at a constant frequency. And no, I find 10hz is way too low for some other devices (maybe frequency settings updates can tolerate a 10th of a second delay, but it's still noticeable). I'm still wondering if you too have noticed that FGFS updates it's property tree with not exact standby-mhz values when using such input devices. Can you confirm? Did you solved this issue? I've also noticed you useformat%03.3f/format in an input chunk ... I did try that too, I hoped that would get me a 3.3 digit format but nothing! It's ignored. How's that at your side? Actually I wrote that with reference to the protocol documentation, because I didn't have the exact file handy - there may be slight differences between that and what I actually got working. I'll update it when I remember to grab a copy of the original file. I did get my prototype working though, so it's definitely possible to format the numbers properly. I need to sort out a git server too so other people can play with the code, currently the only access to my git repository is through ssh. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
I think you're really beating yourself up the hard way. ;-) My suggestion: get a board from http://www.diolan.com/i2c/u2c12_doc/u2c_spi_config_ss_fun.html and 7-segment driver chips from Maxim (7219) with an SPI interface (drives 8 alpha-numeric per chip) or a Maxim 6954 that drives 16 alpha-numerics or any combination of discrete LEds. Run the chips as slaves on your SPI bus and the diolan board as a master. ATM my 747 sim has over 37 discrete alpha-numerics (MCP, nav/radio panels, digital clocks, etc)- one master, (1) 6954 and (3) 7219s.The 737 that was delivered to NASA/Ames two years ago had a comparable number plus 54 discrete LEDs for warning lights, annunciators, etc Use the Network code in FG as examples on writing a socket connection and write a small program to run your hardware and connect to FG over a LAN. If you can program a micro-processor sounds like you're more than capable of handling some higher level coding If you get your present design approach to work, great; if not, and want to try my scheme. glad to help with design and code, your call Just my $0.02 John I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz property using the rotary encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy. I'm working on something similar too: http://leeds.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Projects/FlightSimHardware Good to know Jon, I'll be glad to talk about that with you. I like your hardware approach, getting your hands dirty on a naked ATMega16 should be fun too :-) The simplest solution seems to be to simply send the active and standby frequencies whenever there's a change (up/down of the standby frequency, or swap of active/standby), and define a protocol that expects the two frequencies, comma separated from the serial port. It doesn't appear to matter that there's not a continuous data stream - the last received value is used if there's no new data. I run the incoming protocol at 10Hz, which seems to give a quick enough response for the on screen version of the display. I've settled down on sending the standby-mhz only cause I will send the swap freq - button state too, that will swap the frequencies inside fgfs property tree itself, without the need to send the active freq too. Still I think it's better to make the external hardware send only the rotary encoder's rotations from a design perspective, and not the frequencies at all; I know that's debatable. I'm sending freq now for easy of development only. I agree sending only changing values should be more desirable but serially sent data should be sent all together, there's no way to send an input chunk and leaving the others as-is; since my approach aims at integrating several (not thousands but quite a few anyway!) physical input/output devices, I think for simplicity everything should be sent at a constant frequency. And no, I find 10hz is way too low for some other devices (maybe frequency settings updates can tolerate a 10th of a second delay, but it's still noticeable). I'm still wondering if you too have noticed that FGFS updates it's property tree with not exact standby-mhz values when using such input devices. Can you confirm? Did you solved this issue? I've also noticed you use format%03.3f/format in an input chunk ... I did try that too, I hoped that would get me a 3.3 digit format but nothing! It's ignored. How's that at your side? I'd like to be able to send values from flightgear back to the panel, so that updates to the properties are reflected on the radio panel hardware, but it appears I've got some bugs in my code at the moment (seems like a race condition or memory leak) that cause things to lock up or randomly reset. I need to get it hooked up to a JTAGICE to debug it. Jon -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
Hallo everybody, I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz property using the rotary encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy. Roberto I suggest not to send the raw encoder data to FlightGear but to compute the frequencies internally in your arduino and send the result as a frequency or channel to fgfs. I used this here: http://wiki.flightgear.org/index.php?title=Howto:_Build_your_own_procedure_trainer#Radio_Stack Sources available here: https://gitorious.org/flightgear-pmpt/fg155 I use I2C communication between my PC and the microcontrollers, but that could easily be changed to a serial-over-usb protocol for the Arduino. best Torsten -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
Hallo Torsten :-) in the meanwhile I've reviewed what I've done in the past with the Seneca NLG, that NASAL code ... it was fun :-) I think I'll try this approach first. Von: Torsten Dreyer tors...@t3r.de I suggest not to send the raw encoder data to FlightGear but to compute the frequencies internally in your arduino and send the result as a frequency or channel to fgfs. ... I use I2C communication between my PC and the microcontrollers, but that could easily be changed to a serial-over-usb protocol for the Arduino. It's a design decision, my first idea was to use the external hardware as a replacement for physical input/output devices, no intention to put too much logic in there other than what pertains to what knobs/displays/levers physically do. I would leave the rest of the processing into FlightGear. That means something like that: - a frequency selector knob knob rotates -- the rotation gets passed to FGFS that then makes the internal instrument logic do what it's originally meant to do. - an FGFS frequency display changes value -- the value gets passed to the external hardware that updates it's state accordingly. Another example just to be clear: I don't want to build a Yoke physical replacement that sends aircraft attitude values to FGFS, it should only send it's physical movements and let FGFS do the rest of the simulation processing. That way, the physical external hardware should be a simple replacement of those 3d elements that we generally controll using mouse clicks on the screen. I guess I will move more of the instrumentation's internal functionalities to the external hardware/software in the future anyway (I'm already tempted now), but according to my plan that has to be done in a second step. Anyway, I accept your suggestion and I will investigate in what practically implies sending the frequency to FlightGear instead of sending the knob rotation alone; but I will leave that for a second stage project. Von: Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com I used outbound UDP from FG to send data from the sim to my host interface software and then a telnet based command channel that would be used to set properties. I was not happy with Telnet performance, not even after pumping it's speed up. It has some advantages, I could send only changing values to fgfs and not everything/always, but its poor reactivity makes it a poor choice for more interactive input/output. I'm working on the KX165 now, but it's only a piece of the puzzle, I have yoke/pedals/indicators in mind too. Von: Curtis Olson curtol...@gmail.com I don't know if this is the best approach or not, but when I tackled this task for the ATC Flight Simulator interface (FAA certified flight sim based on FlightGear) I dug in and wrote some C++ code. I find that intriguing (not less than Torsten's i2c/ATMEL prototype) and I will think about that, but I'm still not very confortable with C++ ... I'm writing C++ code now first time in my life, I'll try and make things simple at first. -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
Von: Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com I used outbound UDP from FG to send data from the sim to my host interface software and then a telnet based command channel that would be used to set properties. I was not happy with Telnet performance, not even after pumping it's speed up. It has some advantages, I could send only changing values to fgfs and not everything/always, but its poor reactivity makes it a poor choice for more interactive input/output. I'm working on the KX165 now, but it's only a piece of the puzzle, I have yoke/pedals/indicators in mind too. What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. In the default configuration, the telnet module services incoming connections at 5hz. So in most cases the issue is probably more of latency than bandwidth. But if you spin a knob, you could hit bandwidth issues too. Latency is probably the biggest problem. Even if everything is running at 30 hz, requiring 1 frame to process the input, and then a 2nd frame to send the data back out to a physical display (like a physical radio stack with real 7-segment displays) will end up feeling a bit laggy and not quite as crisp as you'd like. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.orghttp://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Curtis Olson wrote: On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. In the default configuration, the telnet module services incoming connections at 5hz. So in most cases the issue is probably more of latency than bandwidth. But if you spin a knob, you could hit bandwidth issues too. Latency is probably the biggest problem. Even if everything is running at 30 hz, requiring 1 frame to process the input, and then a 2nd frame to send the data back out to a physical display (like a physical radio stack with real 7-segment displays) will end up feeling a bit laggy and not quite as crisp as you'd like. Ahh, ok. The way I'd set it up was running the udp data pump at 30Hz and I never noticed any kind of latency. Then again, I was explicitly setting values when I was sending data as opposed to the send freq-up, let fg figure it out method. Because this isn't a real-time system, you really don't want to put any more load on the simulator computer than you really have to. :) I've seen a 40 year old Honeywell DDP-124 run a 737-200's worth of steam gauges in real time, so there's no excuse for latency with our fancy multi-GHz systems these days. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 06:29:52 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1104010622240.22...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Curtis Olson wrote: On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:12 AM, Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. In the default configuration, the telnet module services incoming connections at 5hz. So in most cases the issue is probably more of latency than bandwidth. But if you spin a knob, you could hit bandwidth issues too. Latency is probably the biggest problem. Even if everything is running at 30 hz, requiring 1 frame to process the input, and then a 2nd frame to send the data back out to a physical display (like a physical radio stack with real 7-segment displays) will end up feeling a bit laggy and not quite as crisp as you'd like. Ahh, ok. The way I'd set it up was running the udp data pump at 30Hz ..how much faster than the frame rate do we need to go, to always be ready for the next frame? and I never noticed any kind of latency. Then again, I was explicitly setting values when I was sending data as opposed to the send freq-up, let fg figure it out method. Because this isn't a real-time system, you really don't want to put any more load on the simulator computer than you really have to. :) ..do we have RT facilities in FG now? (RT as in forget that too late frame, do the next one, not necessarily real RT.) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. Actually ... there is, I kinda like the idea of building my own hardware Yoke and Pedals, and not use any plastic toy at all. You know, just for fun, no need, out of curiosity :-) Anyway, both input and output with a telnet connection causes that little bit of delay that makes it not realistic at all! No matter if it's FGFS getting its Yoke movements, or an external Gear Status Indicator receiving its state from FGFS, it all happens with that little delay that I really won't accept. I never got less than 1/10th of a second of delay with Telnet ... that's noticeable, believe me. I simply don't like it. I think Telnet will still be very usefull for other stuff, something that does not need a precise synchronization with the simulator. Feel free to provide me new hints on using proficiently Telnet+FGFS, I'm still open-minded about that :-) -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: What could you possibly be sending via telnet that would require performance? Seriously, the _only_ time you should be sending data TO the simulator is if a control state changed. I seriously doubt it's physically possible for you to fiddle with enough switches knobs simultaneously to overload the ability of the telnet interface to process the events. If you're trying to use the telnet interface for pitch/roll/yaw/throttle inputs, then yeah, that would be a Bad Idea(tm) - FG has good built-in joystick handling and you shouldn't try to handle that externally unless there is some kind of compelling reason to do so. Actually ... there is, I kinda like the idea of building my own hardware Yoke and Pedals, and not use any plastic toy at all. You know, just for fun, no need, out of curiosity :-) Oh sure, I completely understand that! What I was saying though is that you're going to be much better off using the built-in joystick support of both FG and your host OS for your primary flight controls. Using something like Leo Bodnar's joystick interface would be a good start. I think it does work with Linux MacOS as well as Windows. For everything else the Arduino is a great choice, especially if you really crank up the baud rate on it. I would recommend at least 250kbits/sec. If you're using Windows, you can use the PPJoy driver in order to create as many virtual joysticks as you like using the Arduino - that's one of the side projects I'm working on right now. Nothing like using a MUX Shield for all the analogs you need! (it supports 48 10 bit analog channels) Standard controls like the radio stack, flaps, etc. are slow controls that would be perfectly suited to using the telnet interface. You're quite correct in that the telnet interface isn't going to be up to the job for the primary flight controls. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
* Gene Buckle -- Friday 01 April 2011: Using something like Leo Bodnar's joystick interface would be a good start. I think it does work with Linux MacOS as well as Windows. It does on Linux. The BU0836* expert for Linux is even a former FlightGear developer: http://members.aon.at/mfranz/bu0836a.html (config utility update soon to be released) m. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
Actually ... there is, I kinda like the idea of building my own hardware Yoke and Pedals, and not use any plastic toy at all. You know, just for fun, no need, out of curiosity :-) Oh sure, I completely understand that! What I was saying though is that you're going to be much better off using the built-in joystick support of both FG and your host OS for your primary flight controls. Using something like Leo Bodnar's joystick interface would be a good start. I think it does work with Linux MacOS as well as Windows. I know that nice peace of hardware :-) Never had it in my hands but I appreciate people making their own life with these hacks :-) I read many posts of people being happy with it. But I really like to make my own hack with FGFS ... I never really got into ICs, C++ programming and PICs before. I'm learning a lot using Arduino as middleware, it pulls down the learning curve and makes people like me more confortable with the basics (and even more) of electronics. Anyway, to me, making this stuff work is fun :-) If you're using Windows, you can use the PPJoy driver in order to create as many virtual joysticks as you like using the Arduino - that's one of the side projects I'm working on right now. Nothing like using a MUX Shield for all the analogs you need! (it supports 48 10 bit analog channels) http://ppjoy.blogspot.com/ Is this PPjoy you're talking about? Standard controls like the radio stack, flaps, etc. are slow controls that would be perfectly suited to using the telnet interface. Partially right. I almost agree. You're quite correct in that the telnet interface isn't going to be up to the job for the primary flight controls. You see, I'm making my way up interfacing non critical devices first. I'm exploring different input/output devices, algorythms, electronic standard circuits, communication medias and software techniques first. I will approach more hardcore stuff when and only if I will feel confortable with all the basics, not before. Btw, I just received a few MAX7219; my 7segment displays were waiting for them ... let's get to the breadboard again :-) Cheers. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Harry Campigli wrote: Robertto, Another way is to drop a Microchip Pic in your com box, if you use one of the smaller 18f 40 pin versions you have heaps of analog and bidirectional digital io pins, and construction wise you only need add an xtal and an rs232 or Ethernet chip to the Pic. Power it with 5v from your pc supply if you like. Easy to breadbord with off the shelf matrix board and wire wrap wire. You can code it in C and knock up (clone) a custom io routine to compile into FG which reads and writes direct to the property tree and talk to it on serial or network. I run my sim hardware which is all genuine gutted radios and Boeing panels etc with pics in this way. You are welcome to my source code for the FG IO and the pics. You will need to complie FG, and the pic xcompiler is windows based not linux but seems to run ok in an emulator ok. Harry, the big advantage with the Arduino platform is ease of programming. You don't need any special hardware to program the ATMega328 as it's got a protected bootloader on it that allows you to download the sketches (that's what Arduino programs are called) right to the board over a serial cable. That and Arduino Shields can really expand on what you can do. From 64 channel digital I/O Shields (the Centipede Shield) to an Ethernet Shield with a TCP/IP stack on it. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * Gene Buckle -- Friday 01 April 2011: Using something like Leo Bodnar's joystick interface would be a good start. I think it does work with Linux MacOS as well as Windows. It does on Linux. The BU0836* expert for Linux is even a former FlightGear developer: http://members.aon.at/mfranz/bu0836a.html (config utility update soon to be released) That's great news! Thanks for that. (now quit being a former FlightGear developer will, ya? :) ) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: But I really like to make my own hack with FGFS ... I never really got into ICs, C++ programming and PICs before. I'm learning a lot using Arduino as middleware, it pulls down the learning curve and makes people like me more confortable with the basics (and even more) of electronics. Anyway, to me, making this stuff work is fun :-) Yes, the Arduino platform really lowers the bar of entry. http://ppjoy.blogspot.com/ Is this PPjoy you're talking about? That's exactly it! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:24:11 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1104011222580.1...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: But I really like to make my own hack with FGFS ... I never really got into ICs, C++ programming and PICs before. I'm learning a lot using Arduino as middleware, it pulls down the learning curve and makes people like me more confortable with the basics (and even more) of electronics. Anyway, to me, making this stuff work is fun :-) Yes, the Arduino platform really lowers the bar of entry. http://ppjoy.blogspot.com/ Is this PPjoy you're talking about? That's exactly it! ..it's at http://ppjoy.bossstation.dnsalias.org/ , I found it from http://sim.tomsrc.com/page.php?17 . -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
http://ppjoy.blogspot.com/ Is this PPjoy you're talking about? That's exactly it! ..it's at http://ppjoy.bossstation.dnsalias.org/ , Actually that's a very old web page, the author of PPjoy later on used his blog instead ... which is not very up to date anyway, latest test released were made on a 64bit platform (which is currently not even downloadable) and dates back to last year :-( Anyway, I don't like the idea of being stuck with WinXX, if I have to choose I'd prefer staying with Linux only than with Windows only. I think I will keep trying to be as much platform independent as I can. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: http://ppjoy.blogspot.com/ Is this PPjoy you're talking about? That's exactly it! ..it's at http://ppjoy.bossstation.dnsalias.org/ , Actually that's a very old web page, the author of PPjoy later on used his blog instead ... which is not very up to date anyway, latest test released were made on a 64bit platform (which is currently not even downloadable) and dates back to last year :-( If you need the 64 bit version, holler and I can put it up for download. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
I don't know if this is the best approach or not, but when I tackled this task for the ATC Flight Simulator interface (FAA certified flight sim based on FlightGear) I dug in and wrote some C++ code. I created a structure where I could load an xml file that associated the raw physical hardware (switch number, etc) with a flightgear property. The C++ code would run every frame, read the hardware, and then do the appropriate magic to figure out the user intent, and then update the actual FlightGear properties. This has worked out pretty well and been very solid ... and as a plus, you can directly handle some -- shall we say -- creative hardware layout schemes. I started all this before Nasal really existed or at least before it was widely used. These days you might think about reading the raw switch states into some branch of the property tree you create. Then setup some nasal code that examines the switch states each frame and does whatever computation is necessary to interpret your hardware and update the property values correctly. Best regards, Curt. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Roberto Inzerillo rob...@gmx.net wrote: Hallo everybody, I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz property using the rotary encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy. My current setup lets me read the rotary encoder rotation (it's a signed int value that measures it's direction and the amount of rotation; e.g. +3 equals three steps CW, -1 is 1 step CCW and 0 means it's not rotating) and send it to fgsf at 30Hz. This encoder is meant to be the KX165 physical equivalent of the frequency selector knob. I can send those values to FGFS but that's useless as it is now; I should make FGFS increment the standby-mhz property accordingly; problem is that using the generic protocol to feed those data I can't use the same approach as in kx165-1.xml where the property-adjust (with a proper step value) command has been used. I wonder how could I attack this part of the problem. Suggestions? My first thought was to feed the raw increment to fgfs, store it in a custom property and let fgfs run a nasal script to update standby-mhz accordingly in the background. I'm only guessing now, I don't even know if it's even possible. This scenario is of course of great interest to me since I'd like to use those rotary encoders for more stuff on FGFS. cheers, Roberto -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.orghttp://www.flightgear.org/blogs/category/personal/curt/ -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Hallo everybody, I purchased a few rotary encoder and a bunch of 7segment displays to build a physical replacement of the Bendix KX165. I'm using Arduino which feeds data to FGFS on a serial connection. I'd like to update instrumentation/comm[0]/frequencies/standby-mhz property using the rotary encoder, I wonder what's the best strategy. My current setup lets me read the rotary encoder rotation (it's a signed int value that measures it's direction and the amount of rotation; e.g. +3 equals three steps CW, -1 is 1 step CCW and 0 means it's not rotating) and send it to fgsf at 30Hz. This encoder is meant to be the KX165 physical equivalent of the frequency selector knob. I would only send the data if it's changed. No sense in running the pump unless there's something to send. I can send those values to FGFS but that's useless as it is now; I should make FGFS increment the standby-mhz property accordingly; problem is that using the generic protocol to feed those data I can't use the same approach as in kx165-1.xml where the property-adjust (with a proper step value) command has been used. You might want to trigger an up/down event via Nasal that will do what you need. I did something similar to this with the hardware interface software I built a few years ago. Here's the Lua end of it: --- -- Cockpit Interface Master - Copyright 2008 by Gene Buckle -- Controls COM1 frequency selection --- -- Get the currently selected frequency from the simulator. Com1Freq = CIM:GetStringValue(COM1_FRQ) if Com1Freq == then CIM:SetValue(0, Com1Freq was blank for this cycle.) return end -- Choose the correct frequency step based upon what the current -- simulator needs. if SimType == FlightGear then kHz_offset = .0250 Mhz_Offset = 1.0 elseif SimType == MSFS then kHz_offset = 2 Mhz_Offset = 100 else CIM:SetValue(0, Invalid SimType - .. SimType .. -) return end -- The next four if..then blocks control how the step up/step down -- buttons work for gross (Mhz) and fine (kHz) tuning of the COM -- radio. -- The routines are written to eliminate keybounce by ensuring that -- the user has released the button before the script terminates. -- The CIM:SetValue(0,...) calls are an easy way to see how the code is operating -- if there is a problem with the simulator. if CIM:GetInput(KHZ_DOWN) == true then repeat -- do nothing until CIM:GetInput(KHZ_DOWN) == false Com1Freq = Com1Freq - kHz_offset CIM:SetStringValue(COM1_FRQ, Com1Freq) CIM:SetValue(0, KHZ_DOWN - .. Com1Freq .. -) return end if CIM:GetInput(KHZ_UP) == true then repeat -- do nothing until CIM:GetInput(KHZ_UP) == false Com1Freq = Com1Freq + kHz_offset CIM:SetStringValue(COM1_FRQ, Com1Freq) CIM:SetValue(0, KHZ_UP - .. Com1Freq) return end if CIM:GetInput(MHZ_UP) == true then repeat -- do nothing until CIM:GetInput(MHZ_UP) == false Com1Freq = Com1Freq + Mhz_Offset CIM:SetStringValue(COM1_FRQ, Com1Freq) CIM:SetValue(0, MHZ_UP - .. Com1Freq) return end if CIM:GetInput(MHZ_DOWN) == true then repeat -- do nothing until CIM:GetInput(MHZ_DOWN) == false Com1Freq = Com1Freq - Mhz_Offset CIM:SetStringValue(COM1_FRQ, Com1Freq) CIM:SetValue(0, MHZ_DOWN - .. Com1Freq) return end -- If I can find the files for the FG end of things I'll post them. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] KX165 - serially feeding data to increment a property value. How?
Here's the protocol file I was using - this basically sets up FG to pump this data out via UDP at whatever update rate you want. I used outbound UDP from FG to send data from the sim to my host interface software and then a telnet based command channel that would be used to set properties. The command line example shown above will set up the command channel on port 5500 and the UDP data pump on port 5501. I hope you find this useful! g. ?xml version=1.0? PropertyList comment ![CDATA[ Test protocol file for use with Cockpit Master Usage: # fgfs --telnet=5500 --generic=socket,out,hz,host,5501,udp,test ]] /comment generic output line_separator/line_separator var_separatornewline/var_separator chunk namecom1frq/name typefloat/type formatCOM1_FRQ=%03.3f/format node/instrumentation/comm/frequencies/selected-mhz/node /chunk chunk namecom1-serviceable/name typebool/type formatCOM1_SRV=%d/format node/instrumentation/comm/serviceable/node /chunk chunk namecom2frq/name typefloat/type formatCOM2_FRQ=%03.3f/format node/instrumentation/comm[1]/frequencies/selected-mhz/node /chunk chunk namecom2-serviceable/name typebool/type formatCOM2_SRV=%d/format node/instrumentation/comm[1]/serviceable/node /chunk chunk namenav1frq/name typefloat/type formatNAV1_FRQ=%03.3f/format node/instrumentation/nav/frequencies/selected-mhz/node /chunk chunk namenav1-serviceable/name typebool/type formatNAV1_SRV=%d/format node/instrumentation/nav/serviceable/node /chunk chunk namenav2frq/name typefloat/type formatNAV2_FRQ=%03.3f/format node/instrumentation/nav[1]/frequencies/selected-mhz/node /chunk chunk namenav2-serviceable/name typebool/type formatNAV2_SRV=%d/format node/instrumentation/nav[1]/serviceable/node /chunk chunk nameptt-key-status/name typeint/type formatPTT=%d/format node/instrumentation/comm/ptt/node /chunk chunk nametransponder-code/name typeint/type formatTRANSPONDER=%d/format node/instrumentation/transponder/id-code/node /chunk chunk nameairspeed/name typefloat/type formatIAS=%04.1f/format node/velocities/airspeed-kt/node /chunk chunk namegroundspeed/name typefloat/type formatGS=%04.1f/format node/velocities/groundspeed-kt/node /chunk chunk namepos-longitude-deg/name typefloat/type formatLON=%03.6f/format node/position/longitude-deg/node /chunk chunk namepos-latitude-deg/name typefloat/type formatLAT=%03.6f/format node/position/latitude-deg/node /chunk chunk namepos-alt/name typefloat/type formatALT=%05.0f/format node/position/altitude-ft/node /chunk chunk nameheading/name typefloat/type formatHEAD=%03.1f/format node/instrumentation/heading-indicator/indicated-heading-deg/node /chunk /output /generic /PropertyList -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
