RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
Okay people seem positive about the idea. Heres my thinking 1 It will be along the lines of our last poetry project Happy New Ears Poetry inspired by Fluxus by members of the Fluxlist. Maybe even produced in the same format A4 (roughly 8 X 12 inches) and spiralbound. Theres an online edition for those of you whove joined the list since it was published (June 2000) and would like to see it. Dont know the address but I expect someone will. If its still there of course. 2 When Ive got the poems together Ill publish a list of contributors then anyone who doesnt want their work to appear can say so. 3 Ill put it up on my Rabbit Press site and so anyone can buy a copy. It will be very low price simply to cover cost of paper and postage. 4 As we all are Im very busy so when this will happen I cant say. But I do have some time coming through the summer so Id hope to do it then. Comments welcome. Peas and lovage To buy On My Way to School I Saw a Dinosaur and other poetry books http://www.rabbitpress.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk blog book birk - Original Message - From: Carol Starr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book a blog a book a book a blog a blog a book a book a book a book a book a blog a blog a blog a blog a book bests, carol xx
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK Blog book birK - Original Message - From: Carol Starr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:06 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book a blog a book a book a blog a blog a book a book a book a book a book a blog a blog a blog a blog a book bests, carol xx
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
Sounds great Roger! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Stevens Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 7:01 AM To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Subject: RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book Okay people seem positive about the idea. Heres my thinking 1 It will be along the lines of our last poetry project Happy New Ears Poetry inspired by Fluxus by members of the Fluxlist. Maybe even produced in the same format A4 (roughly 8 X 12 inches) and spiralbound. Theres an online edition for those of you whove joined the list since it was published (June 2000) and would like to see it. Dont know the address but I expect someone will. If its still there of course. 2 When Ive got the poems together Ill publish a list of contributors then anyone who doesnt want their work to appear can say so. 3 Ill put it up on my Rabbit Press site and so anyone can buy a copy. It will be very low price simply to cover cost of paper and postage. 4 As we all are Im very busy so when this will happen I cant say. But I do have some time coming through the summer so Id hope to do it then. Comments welcome. Peas and lovage To buy On My Way to School I Saw a Dinosaur and other poetry books http://www.rabbitpress.com
RE: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE
Since I don't think I can make it (physically) to Middleton, CT a sheet of Fluxus Free Zone stickers is on its way to you Suse. I will be there spiritually and virtually. Allan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of suse Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 9:50 AM To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE Just on-- The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided! The FLUXUS FREE ZONE! What? The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided: .with Poetry that is! Come see the broadsides* we have collected over the years as well as those sent to us recently. Come in and hang up one of your own broadsides during the month of April. National Poetry Month! (or post or email!) The FLUXUS FREE ZONE: Add to the Fluxus Free Zone Eureka Brick Wall in progress! Purchase of a FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry. (Purchase price is whatever you'd like to pay.**) **After the month of April the plan is to put FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry for sale at Café Press for an unknown-as-yet price. * Broadside: 1. A large sheet of paper usually printed on one side. 2. Something, such as an advertisement or public notice, that is printed on a broadside. Also called broadsheet. 3. A broad, unbroken surface THE BUTTONWOOD TREE 605 MAIN STREET MIDDLETOWN, CT 06457 860-347-4957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.buttonwood.org/cgi/calendar.pl
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE
Just on-- The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided! The FLUXUS FREE ZONE! What? The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided: .with Poetry that is! Come see the broadsides* we have collected over the years as well as those sent to us recently. Come in and hang up one of your own broadsides during the month of April. National Poetry Month! (or post or email!) The FLUXUS FREE ZONE: Add to the Fluxus Free Zone Eureka Brick Wall in progress! Purchase of a FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry. (Purchase price is whatever you'd like to pay.**) **After the month of April the plan is to put FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry for sale at Café Press for an unknown-as-yet price. * Broadside: 1. A large sheet of paper usually printed on one side. 2. Something, such as an advertisement or public notice, that is printed on a broadside. Also called broadsheet. 3. A broad, unbroken surface THE BUTTONWOOD TREE 605 MAIN STREET MIDDLETOWN, CT 06457 860-347-4957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.buttonwood.org/cgi/calendar.pl So far in FLUXUS ANTHOLOGIO5O6O 1. mIEKAL aND 2. Allan Revich 3. Suse 4. Madawg 5. Sheila Murphy 6. Jukka-Pekka Kervinen 7. John Bennett 8. Reid Wood 9. Don Boyd so far a few from each--thers not printed or compiled--there is still time bibliana and others to make the deadline! Tonight! after the date I will tape them to the walls and windows but won't make current moment in time anthology lots of ideas--low on energy have many old book covers -- folks can bind their own copies... - Original Message - From: bibiana padilla maltos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology guess i missed the call... don't know anything about the anthology... bummer. Original Message Follows From: Carol Starr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:26:30 -0700 hi suse here it is though a bit on the silly side. but i made it before 1 april. bests, carol xx early morning in the garden who should we see, tenshi and me?? a gopher out of his hole! tenshi dug and dug with glee trying the gopher again to see. a person drove by in his UPS truck, waved and tooted his horn at tenshi and me. i wonder what other person we will see as out in the garden we will be.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE
hi everyone, my name is kraig lamper and i'm new to the fluxlist. i'm a junior in college and i've been reading just about everything i can about fluxus as part of an undergraduate research project. i've absolutely fallen in love with it and i have been watching this list for a while, as well as the podcasts (i also purchased the fluxus anthology 2005). i look forward to buying a forthcoming poetry anthology and would like to contribute a poem or two if at all possible. thank you, kraig. I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling imrolling imrolling iroling irlin irn ir i . my body is a problem this skeleton framed skin surely can not contain me forever i believe in escape for ourselves somehow and as every line increases we get closer to breaking free and finding the limit Quoting suse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just on-- The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided! The FLUXUS FREE ZONE! What? The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided: .with Poetry that is! Come see the broadsides* we have collected over the years as well as those sent to us recently. Come in and hang up one of your own broadsides during the month of April. National Poetry Month! (or post or email!) The FLUXUS FREE ZONE: Add to the Fluxus Free Zone Eureka Brick Wall in progress! Purchase of a FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry. (Purchase price is whatever you'd like to pay.**) **After the month of April the plan is to put FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry for sale at Café Press for an unknown-as-yet price. * Broadside: 1. A large sheet of paper usually printed on one side. 2. Something, such as an advertisement or public notice, that is printed on a broadside. Also called broadsheet. 3. A broad, unbroken surface THE BUTTONWOOD TREE 605 MAIN STREET MIDDLETOWN, CT 06457 860-347-4957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.buttonwood.org/cgi/calendar.pl So far in FLUXUS ANTHOLOGIO5O6O 1. mIEKAL aND 2. Allan Revich 3. Suse 4. Madawg 5. Sheila Murphy 6. Jukka-Pekka Kervinen 7. John Bennett 8. Reid Wood 9. Don Boyd so far a few from each--thers not printed or compiled--there is still time bibliana and others to make the deadline! Tonight! after the date I will tape them to the walls and windows but won't make current moment in time anthology lots of ideas--low on energy have many old book covers -- folks can bind their own copies... - Original Message - From: bibiana padilla maltos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology NOT TOO LATe
Welcome Kraig Also check out http://fluxcase.com and http://fluxnexus.com I want to get something into the poetry anthology also. cecil Louis Lamper wrote: hi everyone, my name is kraig lamper and i'm new to the fluxlist. i'm a junior in college and i've been reading just about everything i can about fluxus as part of an undergraduate research project. i've absolutely fallen in love with it and i have been watching this list for a while, as well as the podcasts (i also purchased the fluxus anthology 2005). i look forward to buying a forthcoming poetry anthology and would like to contribute a poem or two if at all possible. thank you, kraig. I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling imrolling imrolling iroling irlin irn ir i .
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE
You have been printed. You are #14. Thanks! suse - Original Message - From: Kraig Louis Lamper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthologyNOT TOO LATE hi everyone, my name is kraig lamper and i'm new to the fluxlist. i'm a junior in college and i've been reading just about everything i can about fluxus as part of an undergraduate research project. i've absolutely fallen in love with it and i have been watching this list for a while, as well as the podcasts (i also purchased the fluxus anthology 2005). i look forward to buying a forthcoming poetry anthology and would like to contribute a poem or two if at all possible. thank you, kraig. I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling I am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i am rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling i'm rolling imrolling imrolling iroling irlin irn ir i . my body is a problem this skeleton framed skin surely can not contain me forever i believe in escape for ourselves somehow and as every line increases we get closer to breaking free and finding the limit Quoting suse [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just on-- The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided! The FLUXUS FREE ZONE! What? The Buttonwood Tree Broadsided: .with Poetry that is! Come see the broadsides* we have collected over the years as well as those sent to us recently. Come in and hang up one of your own broadsides during the month of April. National Poetry Month! (or post or email!) The FLUXUS FREE ZONE: Add to the Fluxus Free Zone Eureka Brick Wall in progress! Purchase of a FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry. (Purchase price is whatever you'd like to pay.**) **After the month of April the plan is to put FLUXUSANTHOLOGIO5O6O! : Recent Fluxus Poetry for sale at Café Press for an unknown-as-yet price. * Broadside: 1. A large sheet of paper usually printed on one side. 2. Something, such as an advertisement or public notice, that is printed on a broadside. Also called broadsheet. 3. A broad, unbroken surface THE BUTTONWOOD TREE 605 MAIN STREET MIDDLETOWN, CT 06457 860-347-4957 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.buttonwood.org/cgi/calendar.pl So far in FLUXUS ANTHOLOGIO5O6O 1. mIEKAL aND 2. Allan Revich 3. Suse 4. Madawg 5. Sheila Murphy 6. Jukka-Pekka Kervinen 7. John Bennett 8. Reid Wood 9. Don Boyd so far a few from each--thers not printed or compiled--there is still time bibliana and others to make the deadline! Tonight! after the date I will tape them to the walls and windows but won't make current moment in time anthology lots of ideas--low on energy have many old book covers -- folks can bind their own copies... - Original Message - From: bibiana padilla maltos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology
hi suse here it is though a bit on the silly side. but i made it before 1 april. bests, carol xx early morning in the garden who should we see, tenshi and me?? a gopher out of his hole! tenshi dug and dug with glee trying the gopher again to see. a person drove by in his UPS truck, waved and tooted his horn at tenshi and me. i wonder what other person we will see as out in the garden we will be.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology
guess i missed the call... don't know anything about the anthology... bummer. Original Message Follows From: Carol Starr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com To: FLUXLIST@scribble.com Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: poetry anthology Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:26:30 -0700 hi suse here it is though a bit on the silly side. but i made it before 1 april. bests, carol xx early morning in the garden who should we see, tenshi and me?? a gopher out of his hole! tenshi dug and dug with glee trying the gopher again to see. a person drove by in his UPS truck, waved and tooted his horn at tenshi and me. i wonder what other person we will see as out in the garden we will be.
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry Zone Reply
Hi, Im back in the Zone! In answer to Madawgs queries the poetry zone... how do you know when you are in this zone? It says on the top of the computer screen and what makes it a zone? Its a zone because I say so Are there borders? It depends on the configuration of your PC. But I have tried to make the layout look nice. Hey its for children que pasa Que Pasa New York? Talking of which NP Fluid (Paul McCartney in disguise)
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry two too
FFFO minions wrote: in our opinion happY nEw earS was a great publication, not sure if bowman ever sent his compliments (we have to do everything for him). it is a treasured possession here at FFFO GHQ. Yes, it was a great job by Roger and another round of congratulation is certainly not amiss at this point. cheers, Sol.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
Heiko Recktenwald wrote: stop being a poet? Its impossible. Theres a trick to not losing poetry, its called writing it down. Scratch it into wood. But this "writing it down" makes it very different. Live and art, maybe this was much different before t6he invention of letters. H. I've got some bits out of a series re the Norse invention-of-letters story, viz: AK In the Car #8: Unnatural Writing These beings are not us, we see them from outside their skin, rooted, green, breathing what we exhale. In an old story, the first letters fell from trees. Twigs lay on the duff in signifying angles, but no one could see it. When the one-eyed man hung himself on the ash tree, his terrible pain made him see meaning in the scribble of fallen wood below him. For so long people could only build those forms that they could remember, or that the land or their need told them to make. To be able to throw thoughts, to store them--it was amazing what the sticks could do. Steadily, present perception grew weaker as the past swelled, bound up in those nets of lines, hoarded for a bleak day. The sticks in the woods still signify, talking to themselves. In the Car #9: One Damn Thing After Another In the land of the goddess there are no clocks. It's the same thing today as it was tomorrow at this time. Yesterday doesn't call, plaintive and lost, because it's still here. But when the sky burns the earth, the failure of the grass is the beginning of need. When the sky then inquires inhabitants and they begin to whisper insults, finally finality unravels, finally there is a beginning, and then a middle, and another beginning, and an end, and a beginning. Soon, it's all beginnings and nothing is ever enough. And nothing never happens again. In the Car #10: Another Damn Thing After the One Odin makes stories about himself, but doesn't seem to want to hear them aloud. And in them, he's never himself. He's a one-eyed stranger whose name means Poison, a lank-haired man in a dark cloak, no one you'd trust, no heroic figure. He's made sacrifices, sure, but on his own terms. When he gave himself to himself, hanging on the tree like a sacrificed stallion, seeing the first written words on the ground figured with pain, when he tore out his eye for foresight, he knows what he's doing. Something must be torn. This is a man who brings, as a gift to the goddess before him, loss, poison, pain, defeat, and the means to record the struggle against them. It's everything the world holds, but it's a paltry gift, all the same. Eventually it'll be worn out and thrown away.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
of Nazi Germany, the idealistic slogans in Czeckoslovakia Milan Kundera...and car accidents, Dupchek, Villem Flusser etc.. in 1968, even Andrej Tisma in Sarejevo before he switched to militant insanity. Think he was from this other town Novi Sad, or do I mix things ? The balkan with its difficult history.. stop being a poet? Its impossible. Theres a trick to not losing poetry, its called writing it down. Scratch it into wood. But this "writing it down" makes it very different. Live and art, maybe this was much different before t6he invention of letters. H.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
the shot of two birds is waiting countdown. who going to shutdown the song underground? At 04:43 pm -0700 27/8/00, St.Auby Tamas wrote: High! Build an Iron Curtain all around on the equator. Overfeed the people on the north hemisphere and underfeed the people on the south hemisphere. Check their poetries on the net. Hugh! aa
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havana
In a message dated 8/27/00 12:06:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'Tis happier to be dead to die for beauty than to live for bread Off with their heads! Let them eat cake! "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees". -- jay marvin http://www.onthecanvas.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havana
"Tis Nobler to never get paid than to bank on shit and dismay." -silver mt. zion [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/27/00 12:06:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 'Tis happier to be dead to die for beauty than to live for bread Off with their heads! Let them eat cake! "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees". -- jay marvin http://www.onthecanvas.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
When shit is worth money, the poor will be born without assholes --Brazilian proverb
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
Eryk Salvaggio wrote: need for the spirits of people to be elevated out of the extreme poverty and structure. My argument: If art is being made, it can't be so very extreme. Extreme in the sense of irrecoverable, hopeless. Perhaps I overreacted to the word. Historically, art isn't made in the most dire circumstances. Aculture flourishes or it dies, or rises and falls somewhere in between. Even an oppressive regime can feed its people enough to sustain a bare minimum until the next pendulum swing or the next revolution, whichever is more affordable, more 'economically determined' As far as that woman who stopped writing poetry to feed her children- that doesn't make any sense to me. How does a poet stop being a poet? Its impossible. Theres a trick to not losing poetry, its called writing it down. Scratch it into wood. You've fortunately obviously never been hungry enough to forget everything else in your life, to be so focused on bread and water that words are a luxury which would destroy you. It's not that the poetry is finitely religious or magical, it just simply needs to be nourished with a relatively balanced diet. Without sustenance, it has no hope of bearing hope and is actually a poison. Though we see images and hear sounds somehow managed to be made in the depths of war, I'm not sure that oppressive and relentless poverty provides the same reactive soil. It's more of a constant depriving and after a time even the most heroic spirit can be dulled and destroyed. Poetry is not a luxury to a poet; to a poet, its an unshakeable [though beautiful] disease. sure. that, a bottle of wine and thou.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havanna
Kathy Forer wrote: You've fortunately obviously never been hungry enough to forget everything else in your life, to be so focused on bread and water that words are a luxury which would destroy you. Terrence writes; no one has ever been that hungy T. artnatural words are bread and water of the soul
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry and revolution was: havana
'Tis happier to be dead to die for beauty than to live for bread Off with their heads! Let them eat cake!
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
JAY: THE SPEED TO WHICH WE HIT "REPLY" "SEND": THE RED BUTTON ENCASED IN GLASS BREAK HERE AND PUSH IN CASE OF A NUCLEAR MELTDOWN... WHY CAN'T THERE BE A REAL COMMAND IN "REAL" LIFE: "UNDO"
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
In a message dated 6/8/00 1:24:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: THE SPEED TO WHICH WE HIT "REPLY" "SEND": THE RED BUTTON ENCASED IN GLASS BREAK HERE AND PUSH IN CASE OF A NUCLEAR MELTDOWN... WHY CAN'T THERE BE A REAL COMMAND IN "REAL" LIFE: "UNDO" I got you over and out--! jay
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
Well--there's great old country western song on this subject: "There is no instant replay (In the Football Game of Life)" --dbc On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, [iso-8859-9] Ceyda Karamürsel (CUSTOMER TECH-Uzm.) wrote: WHY CAN'T THERE BE A REAL COMMAND IN "REAL" LIFE: "UNDO" and Edit / Copy + Paste ... and sometimes Edit /Clear All...
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
In a message dated 6/8/00 8:35:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well--there's great old country western song on this subject: "There is no instant replay (In the Football Game of Life)" "If heartaches were commercials we'd all be on TV."
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
I just can't get past the "Website Unseen" phrase, I do love it so...and have been using it oftenseems to work "Close Your Eyes, Make a Wish, Hit Delete" David Baptiste Chirot wrote: Well--there's great old country western song on this subject: "There is no instant replay (In the Football Game of Life)" --dbc On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, [iso-8859-9] Ceyda Karamürsel (CUSTOMER TECH-Uzm.) wrote: WHY CAN'T THERE BE A REAL COMMAND IN "REAL" LIFE: "UNDO" and Edit / Copy + Paste ... and sometimes Edit /Clear All...
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
In a message dated 6/8/00 12:19:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: f Drinking don't kill me/Her memory will" "Time Don't mean a thing to me/I've got life to go" "I'm my father's son . . . just a little bit crazy." "If a man keeps running sooner or later he'll run into himself." "From now on all my friends are gonna be strangers."
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
I had a dad for 9 years, and i tried to make a garden and he started it on the shady side of the house... Nothing grew. I transplanted a snapdragon to the sunnyside of the house by the manicured hedge. It grew like crazy. One hedge. One door. One maniacal snapdragon. One hedge. David Baptiste Chirot wrote: "I told my dad I'd stopped raising hell and he called me a quitter." I asked for water and she gave me gasoline . . . On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/8/00 12:19:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: f Drinking don't kill me/Her memory will" "Time Don't mean a thing to me/I've got life to go" "I'm my father's son . . . just a little bit crazy." "If a man keeps running sooner or later he'll run into himself." "From now on all my friends are gonna be strangers."
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
In a message dated 06/08/2000 9:44:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "I told my dad I'd stopped raising hell and he called me a quitter." I told my dad I didn't ask to be born and he said, "It's a good thing you didn't, you'd have been turned down."
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
i recently joined this list. is this a "compilation" project? Ilya M Ould Records It is or rather was you can receive a free copy tho' by sending your address to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book
In a message dated 6/7/00 5:14:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you can receive a free copy tho' by sending your address to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry. Did not mean to send my address to the whole list! :)
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Book (a thank you to Roger)
i recently joined this list. is this a "compilation" project? Ilya M Ould Records --- Sol Nte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roger wrote: BTW The book's looking good and nearly finished. I'm sure the rest of the list will want to join me in thanking you, Roger, for the hard work you're doing on this. It's very kind of you to give up your time and resources for this project :-) cheers, Sol __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update 1and a half
There will now follow three more entries regarding the poems sent - so if you sent one or more in please read them c a r e f u l l y... er, for *three* read *four* and for *there will now follow* read *there precedes* cheers Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update - ascii challenges
Heiko - can't seem to make your ascii graphics work. Are they for the poetry book? Ascii is ascii ;-) You need a font that isnt proportional, like courier, and an appropriate linewidth. Yes, you can use this as poetry. I weas thinking of such things as movies. Digital title generators should be able to do the job. If you give them enuf ascii. Heiko
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update - Names
BestPoet
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update (latest)
Hi Regarding poetry book Just to say that I suggested you reply to my home e-mail so as not to subject everyone on the list with the minutiae of preparing the poem book but if you do reply on the list you needn't reply to me, personally, as well (ie there's no need to send the same message to both) because it gets v e r y c o n f u s i n g for my p o o r b r a i n Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update - Help Wanted
Gosh, 4 years on Fluxlist! I think this was my first post, and I was thrilled when Dick Higgins responded. Ooops, haven't had coffee yet, try http://www.deluxxe.com/fluxus/postcard/index2.html Double click #43 for full text. Bless, PK Patricia wrote: Hiya: There's a very cool postcard about fluxus on the homepage by one who elucidates well - George Free!!! http://deluxxe.com/cgi-bin/post2.cgi mee Roger Stevens wrote: please reply to this to me at my home e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanks wanted 1 a one hundred word (or less) explanation of what FLUXUS is... (preferably from someone is is in the book) 2 a one hundred word explanation (or less) of what the FLUXLIST is (Sol, maybe?) cheers Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Update - Help Wanted
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, George Free wrote:
Gosh, 4 years on Fluxlist! I think this was my first post, and I was
thrilled when Dick Higgins responded.
I remember when dear Dick would repeatedly advise everyone on this list
to-do-as-he-did, and delete my posts without reading them ;) although he
would 'occasionally/accidentally' have to respond ;) I suppose Ostrow now
attempts this role. They both seemingly had un-questionable, over-arching,
prescribed agendas. (I really liked Dick's off-the-wall post concerning
his house and the burntout stove. Someone reposted this once. Love to read
it again. We're probably all never remembered the way we'd like.)
On Sat, 11 Mar 2000, David A. Ross (Director, SFMOMA institute) wrote:
Yeah Brad, well when I grow up and become a real, true radical artist
like you, then maybe I can aspire to your level of accomplishment and
contribution, and brutal, uplifting honesty. Gosh, you're terrific.
Oh, I checked your on-line work...pretty spiffy. And so profound!
The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project since 1994
+ + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace
+ + + eccentricftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace
+ + + continuous ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace
+ + +hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace
+ + +imagery ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace
News://alt.binaries.pictures.12hr ://a.b.p.fine-art.misc
Mailing-list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg
Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html
http://bbrace.laughingsquid.net
{ brad brace }[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~finger for pgp
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry submission
Patricia, I am very sorry to hear or read your Haiku about loving women. Did you make the poetry deadline? Is it going into our book? I am sorry more for your disappointments with men. I don't trust them either. ---Don I have always preferred women, too.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry submission
Hey, all you fluxypoets great response! This one isn't for the book but... When I write haiku I always seem to have one syllable left o ver Roger Children's poetry in The Poetry Zone www.poetryzone.ndirect.co.uk
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry submission
finger haiku digits were designed to count off the syllables of five seven five that's why we have them, you know kisses, patrishes Roger Stevens wrote: Hey, all you fluxypoets great response! This one isn't for the book but... When I write haiku I always seem to have one syllable left o ver Roger Children's poetry in The Poetry Zone www.poetryzone.ndirect.co.uk
Re: FLUXLIST: (Poetry) Impossible
Fluxlist is 8 letters if you count the "l" twice otherwise it's only 7 and some say 7 has religious significance.
Re: FLUXLIST: (Poetry) Impossible
Yes, and if you rearrange the letters you get: "Still Fux" and "Fills Tux" (whatever significance THAT reveals...I just don't know...) B-GOOD --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fluxlist is 8 letters if you count the "l" twice otherwise it's only 7 and some say 7 has religious significance. = http://rostasi.homepage.com/ http://lowercasesound.com/lccomp.html http://ampersandetc.virtualave.net/ampv2_7.html http://www.geocities.com/duul_drv/lowercase.htm The Governor General of New Zealand is named Sir Michael Hardie Boys. __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: (Poetry) Impossible
I would certainly count those lines as religiously significant, under "blessings." : ) A-V.GOOD Rod Stasick wrote: Yes, and if you rearrange the letters you get: "Still Fux" and "Fills Tux" (whatever significance THAT reveals...I just don't know...) B-GOOD --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fluxlist is 8 letters if you count the "l" twice otherwise it's only 7 and some say 7 has religious significance. = http://rostasi.homepage.com/ http://lowercasesound.com/lccomp.html http://ampersandetc.virtualave.net/ampv2_7.html http://www.geocities.com/duul_drv/lowercase.htm The Governor General of New Zealand is named Sir Michael Hardie Boys. __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry
After reading this, I am fearful of stepping outside... for I live in(theme from Twilight Zone here) "Butterfly Town." http://www.pacificgrove.com/butterflies/index.html Eryk Salvaggio wrote: The butterflies have got a secret agenda. They want to kill us all with chaos theory Shatter our televisions with electrical storms forcing us to stare at each other by candlelight listening to that typhoon tapping against our windows. They conspire as caterpillars and go underground, preparing and training like Iranian Guerillas or the guys who kidnapped Patricia Hearst. In summer, the revolution begins opening wings like the flames of riots Shattering our beer bottles, to show us real intoxication; stealing our glances from hamburger gardens and the clean glass shopping malls. Kamikaze Butterflies! they refuse to eat; a hunger strike for our souls A propaganda campaign against human anxiety and they beg us to join their army.
Re: FLUXLIST: poetry submission
The operative word here is "think" I am pissed off therefore I ponder... Lord Hasenpfeffer wrote: I think I'll become a lover of women. I no longer trust men. This is very good haiku, IMNSHO. I always loved women and have never trusted men, so I can relate. Myke P.S. However, I thought this was a matter of design and not choice. Hmmm... [rubs chin and ponders]
Re: FLUXLIST: (Poetry) Impossible
fluxlist is not flashy verbiage. fluxlist is not strutting plumage. fluxlist has curves. fluxlist is not male. If fluxlist were the latter, fluxlist would not be present. Rod Stasick wrote: ) fluxlist is not remoistened. q) fluxlist is not a broncobuster. ¦) fluxlist is not reprimanding. ) fluxlist is scanning. §) fluxlist is comprehended. ) fluxlist is intentional. ¦) fluxlist is not asteroidal. .) fluxlist is not patchy or dipped. ) fluxlist is not an etymon. \) fluxlist is magisterial. __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: (Poetry) Impossible
Erase all former comments about men. I'm just going to go exercise and get my endorphins going and I'll feel much better. Oh, and I'm going to let loose with my favorite string of cuss words. shithellfirewaterpisswampumpotashletumbuckwhoopee. Have a nice day, me Patricia wrote: fluxlist is not flashy verbiage. fluxlist is not strutting plumage. fluxlist has curves. fluxlist is not male. If fluxlist were the latter, fluxlist would not be present. Rod Stasick wrote: ) fluxlist is not remoistened. q) fluxlist is not a broncobuster. ¦) fluxlist is not reprimanding. ) fluxlist is scanning. §) fluxlist is comprehended. ) fluxlist is intentional. ¦) fluxlist is not asteroidal. .) fluxlist is not patchy or dipped. ) fluxlist is not an etymon. \) fluxlist is magisterial. __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Roger, here's one. Let me know what you think. Jay Marvin
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submissions
PAROLE IN LIBERTA In our probation/parole office are: a bullet proof glass-- a metal detetector-- Forms to fill out Whereabouts whenabouts whatabouts to check In our probation/parole office Is one sign: As a courtesy to others Remove hats and other headgear --dave baptiste chirot 25 may 2000 (Note: "parole in liberta": "words in freedom". F. T. Marinetti, the founder of Italian Futurism in 1909, used this term/slogan to call for a poetry written in visual layouts covering the page moving in various directions, with various forms and sizes of lettering. The visual layouts and letterings make a sound and word score for vocal performance. The letters make both onomatopoeic sounds and phonetically spelled words as well as standardized spellings of words. Many of Marinetti's own "parole in liberta" glorified war and the dynamism of speed and machines.)
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submissions
iris and poppy dazzling this morning purple and white pink and salmon peonies pink white and red lots of weeds too think i'll go back to bed carol starr taos, new mexico, usa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submissions
sixsix-ths in browse su ne andre en ...pez technique: 6 books (any) pages 66 in every book sixth word of every page
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submissions
sixsix-ths error do-while files logical can options Myke
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submissions
3' x 5' = 15' (or, every 15 seconds i look at the scrolling marquee): F A C E S P L O T T O K Y O C L I C K H O U S E P L A N D E L A Y A R S E N I C C L I C K N E W S L E B A N O N K I L L B A N B E A T T O C R I S T I N E W A N G2000
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
maybe it's not chance maybe it's just random and anyway, I like the role the brain plays the same with sounds the same with art go and look at a field listen to the world clanking by but as soon as you make any decision to intervene... so is it all about setting up procedures and then seeing what happens? this is a rather gentle gardening poem Splice of Life (Roger Stevens) root very eaSily at this a classic examPle you may late for dahLia cuttings of storage untIl early April freely draining Compost in which in horticultural tErms, we do Which is grOund up shingle plants made From these late-cut hope that earLy frosts won't themselves to splItting. Take cuttings similar but dwarFer and less if you missEd propagating them from The Guardian Weekend Splice of Life by Christopher Lloyd how far the distance from a zen paintstroke to the rules for mesostic poems? answers on a postcard
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
vewol mevoments vewel movemonts vowel mevoments vewol mevemonts vowel movements -Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry and Chance
Just returned from walking Judy, our Collie, on the beach and I was thinking about chance How do you use chance in poetry - or art - art? Is it possible? Well, you can throw a dice. But to do that you first have to make a decision - so at best you're only introducing a slight chance element. And the dice will give you six choices. But are they chance choices? How will you decide which each choice represents? Even deciding to, say, write a poem in the first place - that's not a chance decision is it? For real chance to happen must you not give up control? And even then, such a decision is not arrived at through chance - is it? So what chance chance? and I was also musing upon the role of chance in Fluxus generally How important was it to the mainstream Fluxus artists? R
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Genetic Code (or, the mind/body problem solved) mindnbsp/mind
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
In 1972 after much reading of Cage and a personal letter from him, regarding my having been "let go" (fired)at Kenyon College, I developed a poetry technique which I later termed "Fluxpoems." At that time I cut out words from Magazines and newspapers, usually in bold type (similar to what a kidnapper would do, I think) and rolled dice as to how to past them down. Ie. If I rolled a seven I would pick out seven pieces of paper from a hat, paste therm down, and so on. I rolled dice as to number of lines. Today, I picked up a newspaper, closed my eyes, made marks with a magic marker, then typed up the words marked in order. I limited my choice to ten marks for the sake of brevity. -Don Boyd Fluxus West POEM The Filters at the plant ting precauti wate in," he said at facto RAISE law Police Such action would occur -Don Boyd 4-26-2000
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry
(as per constant request, I am scrubbing off the old material of this string, but this is about JOHN CAGE) Did Cage benefit George's garbageman? I guess that depends on how much george's garbageman listens to music, doesn't it? Reed, could you perhaps retire this kind of hairy-chested proletarianism? It's reminiscent of the posing my SWP friends did back in the early seventies. There's a period charm to it, but. -Original Message- From: Reed Altemus [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
RE: FLUXLIST: Poetry
Did Cage benefit George's garbageman? Please! Garbageperson. (followed by a bunch of Popeye yuks . . .) BestPoet (who, as near as I can figure, is a female, not a male)
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
BP I dunno y eye thot u were mail. OK then garbageperson. So you've been eating spinach before you write. Ah, that's the trick. RA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did Cage benefit George's garbageman? Please! Garbageperson. (followed by a bunch of Popeye yuks . . .) BestPoet (who, as near as I can figure, is a female, not a male)
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Hi Roger I'm sending you these off list because it's too much to post and I'd rather not have this recent stuff read on FLUXLIST right now. One caveat: I think it should be called something like "Fluxlist Poetry Chapbook" or anything "Fluxlist" rather than Fluxus per se. Of course others may disagree. Hope you get some stuff from Alan Bowman, his poetry is very cool (see his website (http://space.tin.it/clubnet/abowman/freeformfreakoutorganisation.htm) the Free Form Freakout Organization. BTW you don't have to use all of this I'm sending, take yr pick. I just send more to let you read more of what I do. Hope you enjoy the poems and read you on Fluxlist. Reed PS Had a look at your Children's Poetry website yesterday. Enjoyed it. --- begin --- Buster says "Posture is it." and SO youíd better haZe Popeye vertical-offspring Well, it is Spring but here goes neighbors lumpy crows which Tom would say"Oh yeah, many names." Pissing pulsated pillow-chewer nubs best boink bIllows bEllows bUllows bAllows. Again there you have it, Miller positive past Each wayS to cEll (hardened splatter) Overcast blast past livers shivers quivers the "Not againÖ" OK left,right.left,right This will allow for future opposed to anyways under this cow "Not againÖ"OK left,right,left,right lulu charlie taps gallows nibble? Oh definitely . "Fuck that."Then again. OK right,left,right.left saw Jill ampersand, blinker AND "Itís tough to con trol that anyways." Usually three times, sometimes four. Rusty quickly bait another Noise hook wafted Ö ability to wrench outside yet is it really? Tall infant anywaysÖ Porch/cat/rub/tommorrow morning. Missed them dancing. OK right,left,right,left Just my head in the bowel is all. The only funny things in the world are the 3 stooges and the neoists. Reed Altemus 4/9/00 D fer BH jab N lope K F grapefruit long PV mal O pian S A cellar QW bunion R ils C dat EE ung pulse UG lip Z gorge JX ast DI rect IO nub HM tra I ling pisser WAH trong LY ost N red TF bore S erd urd GY ots PA geode UC ith DP ange LS R. Altemus 4/9/00 Attitude or apathy Benching or bundling Canoes or cullings Denver or dustbowel Every or evidence Fence or fancies Gallows or guilt-ridden Hellbound or handling Intelligence or inertia Jewish or junk Killers or kindereds Longing or lambswool Mentals or mappings Nabisco or numbskull Operated or orthography Pens or pans Quotation or quotidian Rabble or raiders Silt or sediment Tar or tacky Undulating or urges Vapid or vanishers Wedded or waterfowel Xylophone or X-rated Yelling or yesterday Zebra or zeroed R. Altemus 4/14/00 6 rewrithings of some poems of John M. Bennett TomBeau "my" (TUMBling sNORe, Fascination wrIST ed toWard my fLAKing hEad or tumbLINg flOor fastened to my lIst or Lakey liPs benEATh your lap ping bREAD be neaTH your) hips John M. Bennett 12.3.97 timbRE "your" (timbRING Snore FAScinaTion wreST ed tOWard your fLUKing hEad OR TumblING FLOor festooned to your laST or LUCKy lipS BEN eath "my" lip PING tRUMPet be GINing my) heps Reed Altemus 4/15/00 TorimBAUD "your"(TAMe ing geAR fUSsy Notion blISs Add tOward her fLEXIng Baader EAR tin beaRING flOUR fastEND to your LaST or sLINKy LeAPs BEneath "your" limey Brood BY Nate my) hets Reed Altemus 4/18/00 Rob e II: birds the neigh bors e cac a down the drain age jab the Con form ity foot the st air up to #1-E wave b rightly f lag "hi hoÖ" c reaming rift yr pen nies auto trepititionwhy. It chy skull mud a book book a mud flush age st raight to helL anding next theco rn evE ry begin ning exhalation. W hen the knees birds the neigh bors e roof inversed. Saw ah clack ah, duck tightly bound! OK. Blind s JMB 7.28.99 RA 4.20.00 Be auté II: mouldering bar felt raft er hab Chet it I blan ish k sun Ken breeding the cello for the sardine mouldering bar felt be "quest-ce-cíest" I went crad led you my bro laun dry binds gestalt of b urn ing al to me (at night) ah to wind ing mucus-clothed! Yr Des in te grating days at me poltergeist bastard yr crenellating un dulating eye yr "eye" yr inept (span d ex sweepings some) days tan dem g ills end: dust zeit JMB 7.28.99 RA 4.20.00 Ma chin e II : like a gate d rap rips ed yr ca ter pill ers clown ham hocks the door smiler style-less fl utters ten drils hamsterly humpings the even Stephen ing eniero nada sucks his photo gra ve loaf a wool a venue bridge too feds hatless f art ing where the En gland stems, rivu less tibia to be a en tu buses talle merde va ga agate like a gate JBM 7.28.99 RA 4/20/00 Ra il II: genu flect you pee until led the bend sauce teased so Iís anchor too d an bel lies stung rayed genu ine across the corridor b ridge a mean t lap be low can dles yr rive lob elle R key am mend men t dome yr clap board fold hot hints inside, yr veins hat metal arc pet un ias domunism "John-u-ism" flect JMB 7.28.99 RA 4/20/00 ten tits jap LI hug NU punk EK ice JI tongue HA ick SA let AG pay
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
So, what is a voice? And what is "the habitual voice"? in your opinion? Well, I was winging it when I said that, but now that you call me on it... ;-) Actually, I think Cage was more exactly concerned about how our taste was conditioned. Our likes and dislikes. He used chance operations and various techniques to get beyond these conditioned judgements. ...conditioned by up-bringing, personal background etc. He tried to develop a practice -- and his mind -- to the point where he could appreciate everything. This is where he was particularly influenced by Buddhism and Eastern philosophy generally... A voice, I suppose, is a distinctive mode of speech, a way of talking that is unique to the individual. Is that voice conditioned by its background or free? Does it reproduced patterns or is it truly creative? ...those might be questions to consider. Of course, they beg as much as they ask, because we'd also need to know what we mean by "free" and "creative". ...I think in Cage being creative means letting things manifest as they are... But there I might be winging it again ;-) best BP George
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Apologies to the list for that which was exactly what I didn't want to do. My mistake. Reed
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
I'm quite glad you didit And the words have a splendid pattern and mellifluous undulating volumes. Well done. PK Reed Altemus wrote: Apologies to the list for that which was exactly what I didn't want to do. My mistake. Reed
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
You'd be right to say that this is only in the cultural sphere, but I guess Cage saw his work as possibly being a model for other social relations. Yes, a model. I agree. I like the way you're looking at things holistically. I do that to (on a good day). RA
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
Greater Care/ Reply Function common practice refresh memory provide context paraphrasing time evolving conversation hairy chested lengthy problem reply function? lengthy Buroughs passages offering problem context hairy conversation refresh memory please PK Harris 25 April 2000 Hairy chested. Yeah, sort of like Robert Watts and his various too-male works like the chest and breast aprons etc. not to mention other unmentionables he did which verged on the pornographic. Geez *another* dead guy. At my invitation tonight everyone is welcome to play taps for art. Life is more important. RA
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
Well, I do agree with you about Cage. I made the point recently to someone that Cage was never the anarchist he claimed to be in all his interviews and books. Real anarchy would have threatened his position as an artist. How so? Cage was an anarchist in the American individualist tradition of Thoreau. There were certain admirable qualities Cage had though. For instance, during most of his career he really lived hand-to-mouth and had to teach etc.. Why is this admirable? ...Not that I don't think Cage was admirable, but working can be admirable too, no? It wasn't til later in his career that he became self-sufficient as an artist and then he adopted a very strange attitude: he maintained a strict work-ethic. Art is a discipline Where's the contradiction between art and hard work? After all that talk about how unemployment was the state of Budhhist enlightenment (which I believe he got from Berlin Dada) , he proceeded to become a professional composer/aritist. Ironic, no? I don't remember seeing any glorification of unemployment in Cage's work. apropos: enlightenment; it takes a lot of discipline to become enlightened! How long did the Buddha sit under the tree at Bodhgaya? The reason I don't do my writing and art anonymously is that it has been done to death and why make that sacrifice to cover old ground. I mean Duchamp said "go underground" but it reflects such a cynical stance. Again, interestingly. Cage's works were filled with his signature. Literally. Which was so beautiful. What did Duchamp mean by "go underground"? relate art to life??? Where's the cynicism? just some questions cheers, George
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
Of course, I'm not a Fluxus poet, and I rather like seeing the persona of the writer expressed. I don't see Cage's work as "depersonalization", in the sense of eliminating personality. ...what would that end up being? Nihilism. And Cage was by no means a nihilist. I think what he's working with -- both from his connection with Buddhism, but also with Western traditions of aesthetics -- is a bigger conception of mind. Non-expression is not the abscence of expression, but an activity that allows things to manifest in a completely free or absolute way (not subjected to the pre-conceived intentions of the artist). In Cage's work we always hear his voice ;-) ! Literally, reading. All his works are distinctively "his", because he is part of the condition of their realization. But their realization comes from somewhere else... He created situations in which we could hear. In which he could participate too as a member of the audience. ...don't know if I'm making myself clear here. I don't fully understand the other position, but I see capitalism as one big effort to wipe out the human voice and eccentric (read non-commodified) persona and replace it with manufactured voices or, worse, no voice except the "voice" of the commodity. Cage's work is the antithesis of "commodification" or commercialization of poetry or music, so I don't see a parallel in that sense. However, Cage was very interested in modern technology and sought to use it for artistic (and noncommercial) purposes. When I think of all the beautiful voices of the poets I've read in my life, I shiver to think of a world where this kind of poetry did not exist, where poetry becomes only a trick of language and not an expression of human experience or vision. What is a voice? ... I think what Cage was against was the habitual voice. He wanted to transform speaking, music. What is the prejudice against expression? Perhaps someone can explain. Its not a prejudice, but a considered criticism of traditional notions of artistic expression. At the same time, it is also consistent with some traditional ideas of expression. ...for example, artists have often talked about how they didn't actually create the work, but were somehow a vehicle for its realization... I know people fear sentimental manipulation (which I consider poetic obesity), just as I fear the poem devoid of the human touch (which I consider poetic anorexia). Personally, I love the persona. Besides, underneath the poem, or beside it, over it or through it, is indeed the persona that created it . . . and isn't literature (and art) in general just an excuse to reveal one's psychic guts and vision to a reader (futile as that desire might be)? Even the desire to hide the persona reveals such. Of course, this is a big world and there's always room for both. But personaly speaking . . . I think Cage's work was more a practice of working on who he was. In this sense, it was intensely personal. His works are filled with his life and his life filled with his work. From the moment he would get up in the morning and water his plants. All part of his musics. thanks BP! George
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
In a message dated 04/24/2000 7:47:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What is a voice? ... I think what Cage was against was the habitual voice. He wanted to transform speaking, music. Thanks George. I do agree with what you say about Cage, and, as I said, this wasn't really a rant against Cage or MacLow, both of whom I like . . . or like their work. and I guess what interests me most about Fluxus is creating new spaces in which to . . . breathe . . .But, aside from Cage and MacLow and Fluxus, there is a lot of confusion about expression . . . about voices. And when things start to veer off in certain directions, I tend to go into my own code: rantnbsp;/rant So, what is a voice? And what is "the habitual voice"? in your opinion? BP
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
George Free wrote: Well, I do agree with you about Cage. I made the point recently to someone that Cage was never the anarchist he claimed to be in all his interviews and books. Real anarchy would have threatened his position as an artist. How so? Cage was an anarchist in the American individualist tradition of Thoreau. Yes. Or so he claimed. And made art out of Thoreau's writings etc. I'm just saying there's a difference between the naive anarchism of some so-called "cultural workers" and the actuality of political situations. The point I made to my friend about Cage was "Sure, he was an anarchist, but only in the cultural sphere." What I meant was talking about "anarchy" and doing it are two different things. Hey, what the post-Fluxus press is feeding you may be lies too, no? I don't believe everything I read. And I don't read everything I believe either. I have a tape called John Cage "Talking" (S-Tapes 1975) and on it I heard a picture of a pretentious over-the-hill avant-gardist thinking it was OK to preach to a converted German (of course) audience. admirable qualities Cage had though. For instance, during most of his career he really lived hand-to-mouth and had to teach etc.. Why is this admirable? ...Not that I don't think Cage was admirable, but working can be admirable too, no? Sure. Work is admirable. It wasn't til later in his career that he became self-sufficient as an artist and then he adopted a very strange attitude: he maintained a strict work-ethic. Art is a discipline Where's the contradiction between art and hard work? I dunno. Ask Andre Breton. Another dead guy. After all that talk about how unemployment was the state of Budhhist enlightenment (which I believe he got from Berlin Dada) , he proceeded to become a professional composer/aritist. Ironic, no? I don't remember seeing any glorification of unemployment in Cage's work. apropos: enlightenment; it takes a lot of discipline to become enlightened! How long did the Buddha sit under the tree at Bodhgaya? Well at this point I'm just gonna say, you probably know better and I am an imbecile because I can't cite chapter and verse on Cage right now. I'll leave that *quite gladly* to the academics. The reason I don't do my writing and art anonymously is that it has been done to death and why make that sacrifice to cover old ground. I mean Duchamp said "go underground" but it reflects such a cynical stance. Again, interestingly. Cage's works were filled with his signature. Literally. Which was so beautiful. What did Duchamp mean by "go underground"? relate art to life??? Where's the cynicism? And I also tire of all this discursive masturbation. BP dared me and I told him why I wouldn't that's all. One thing I do still admire about Cage was his optimism. Give a choice between hoping for the best and clouds of pessimism I choose the former. Even if it breaks my heart sometimes. So, George, let me put this question to you. Do you think what Cage did really changed the world for your garbageman? RA
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry/depersonalization
I don't think one could consider Cage, MacLow or Rothenberg "depersonalized"--they are very distinctive voices. The use of chance is a technique--what changes it from the abitrary or the "meer permutation" is that the elements used for the procedures are CHOSEN by the poet/artist/performer-- rather like the Uncertainty Principle--the observer affects the observed-- "Depersonalization" and "the death of the author"--notice these are still "signed"--by Cage, by Foucault, etc--after all, one has to live, and the royalty checks, grants, etc are needed-- Capitalism is not interested in the individual, but in erasing the individual and replacing it with the commodity of the persona, the image, the celebrity, the "personality"-- The confusion which capitalism creates about the individual is due in large part to the ideas of ownership and private property. Quantity transmuted into quality-- The individual is the most troubling question capitalism has posed for itself. --dave baptiste chirot On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Reed Altemus wrote: George et al It's the Cagean "depersonalization of the artist" chance operations proceedures which account for this bias. Jackson MacLow's poetry is an excellent example. RA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 04/22/2000 1:12:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George Free wrote: If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. Anyone read the "Gematria" stuff that Jerome Rothenberg did? It's Flux-related, as it's process-oriented, nonexpressive (that is, expresses the language as a thing in itself, not the persona of the writer). AK Of course, I'm not a Fluxus poet, and I rather like seeing the persona of the writer expressed. I don't fully understand the other position, but I see capitalism as one big effort to wipe out the human voice and eccentric (read non-commodified) persona and replace it with manufactured voices or, worse, no voice except the "voice" of the commodity. When I think of all the beautiful voices of the poets I've read in my life, I shiver to think of a world where this kind of poetry did not exist, where poetry becomes only a trick of language and not an expression of human experience or vision. What is the prejudice against expression? Perhaps someone can explain. I know people fear sentimental manipulation (which I consider poetic obesity), just as I fear the poem devoid of the human touch (which I consider poetic anorexia). Personally, I love the persona. Besides, underneath the poem, or beside it, over it or through it, is indeed the persona that created it . . . and isn't literature (and art) in general just an excuse to reveal one's psychic guts and vision to a reader (futile as that desire might be)? Even the desire to hide the persona reveals such. Of course, this is a big world and there's always room for both. But personaly speaking . . . BP
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
AK Thanks for the advice. I will think it over. Dead poets are infinitely preferable to nothing and I hate the idea of an older poet befriending me and being my mentor. So I take yr comments w/a grain of salt. RA ann klefstad wrote: r Well, I do agree with you about Cage. I made the point recently to someone that Cage was never the anarchist he claimed to be in all his interviews and books. Real anarchy would have threatened his position as an artist. There were certain admirable qualities Cage had though. For instance, during most of his career he really lived hand-to-mouth and had to teach etc.. It wasn't til later in his career that he became self-sufficient as an artist and then he adopted a very strange attitude: he maintained a strict work-ethic. After all that talk about how unemployment was the state of Budhhist enlightenment (which I believe he got from Berlin Dada) , he proceeded to become a professional composer/aritist. Ironic, no? The reason I don't do my writing and art anonymously is that it has been done to death and why make that sacrifice to cover old ground. I mean Duchamp said "go underground" but it reflects such a cynical stance. Look, don't let dead artists tell you how to live. If they didn't listen, why should you? Many artists, writers, musicians, I know found themselves forced into unlivable positions because they felt they had to adopt various purist postures that had been written about by various aesthetic heroes. This is nonsense. If your purpose is to make art, make it by any means necessary that are compatible with thinking it and doing it. Your life is singular. AK
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
In a message dated 04/23/2000 12:52:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, I think Language poetry, and other poetries that weighted linguistic experimentation heavier than expression, were driven by several things in their historical moment. 1. Lowell et al, all those confessional guys and gals, the suicide crew, Berryman, Plath, had just cut a swath and dropped into it. There was something deathly about reading one's own entrails and young poets perhaps didn't want to repeat that particular experiment. There was also Frank O'Hara and Ted Berrigan to counter Lowell and the suicide queens. Ted was my first poetry instructor, so maybe that has something to do with my views. Ted took banality to wonderful heights. 2. The banality of self-expression that derives from the fact that we all wanna express the same stuff can be crazy-making for writers and readers alike. Go to any poetry slam. I have to disagree with you there. I've heard some amazing poets at the Nuyorican Poets Cafe poetry slams (one of the places that made slams famous) . . . even been in a few myself. Amazing feats of language and rhythm and memorization (which always adds to the experience of hearing spoken word). Do we all want to express the same stuff? If that were true, then why do I come away from so many art "experiences" (including readings) feeling like an alien on this planet? Of course, bad poets we always have with us, but that's no reason to give up on poetry. 3. The centrality of the individual to artmaking was an artifact of the romantic modernist myth, a myth that had been both politically manipulated and narratively manipulated to produce an ideologically obscene picture of the Artiste (see 50s movies about The Artist, and for their aftermath see current portrayals of Artists in comic strips, cartoons, ads, genre fiction, etc etc all universally hateful) This is a very tricky "subject". Individuals ARE central to artmaking. Even in collective art-making. How could it be otherwise? Ok, the enlightenment notion of the individual begat drunken boats full artists writhing through their seasons in hell. And, of course, we must remember all this is taking place in Western culture. Other cultures having actual community slots for artists to fill, not celebrity pedastals. (Although from the time of ancient Greeks, poets of the Western mode had personalism in mind a lot through the ages--it didn't just happen with the Enlightenment). 4. The linguistic turn in both philosophy and anthropology (that is, the advent of Saussurean ideas in almost any field involving human production of ideas or artifacts) meant that there was a kind of surreptitious hunt for the ghost in the machine of language--Who was language, you might say. So the use of language in ways designed to beguile out of its functioning its spirit, its laws, its own "personality" seemed imperative, more important than any single voice. I think that was and is most certainly a necessary hunt to undertake, and it revealed a lot to us about how we are constructed and how we construct ourselves and the world. But I also think that some surrendered the passion and blood of being human and alive to a chilling blueprint bestowed on us by a system of our own paranoid creation. I also think it's extremely important for humans to take responsibility for what's being created and destroyed, and that means inhabiting a persona and taking responsibility and making commitments. Now that we understand how meaning is created (which was the whole point of the hunt for the ghost in the machine ride to me), we need to create meaning consciously. We are the only species that can do this. Why do we shrink from it? I am so bored with all the artists who use so much form and technology and have nothing to say, no passion, no blood. I may not agree with you, but damn, at least engage me. So there were reasons. But maybe it is possible now to return to individual voices without immediately being laden down with the baggage aforementioned. Maybe. But still, the tyranny of narrative tends to pull any specificity out into the sea of story, and in a culture like this one, where that sea is pretty much turning into the Sea of Received Virtual Information, Bouvard and Pecuchet hosting 60 Minutes, ya gotta hold on hard to the huckleberries to keep your _own_ breath in your body. Definitely, it's possible. But that doesn't mean everybody does it. There will always be bad poetry (and bad art) around. I've written some of it myself. That's not the fault of an ideology or of a genre. Personally, I'm interested in the personas that have been through the linguistic unraveling, dark nights of the soul, all sorts of undoings and investigations into the art of self, and who construct personas out of the ashes of the subject that was slaughtered in the 20th century. The great thing is, we don't have
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry Submission
then we'll go for it, as that old Fluxus devil Rimbaud used to say Well, isnt it all about lifestyle, more or less ? We could start a thread about R.D.Laings conversations with children, to switch to our century. "L'Elegance, la science, la violence", had it as a motto on my first "homepage".. One sentence of Blaise Cendrars, to name another writer. Or Ivan Goll. Rainald Goetz, who is/was rather popular here, once wrote "half a sentence of Thomas Bernhard", a writer from austria... Godard and literature etcpp. Heiko
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
In a message dated 04/22/2000 1:12:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George Free wrote: If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. Anyone read the "Gematria" stuff that Jerome Rothenberg did? It's Flux-related, as it's process-oriented, nonexpressive (that is, expresses the language as a thing in itself, not the persona of the writer). AK Of course, I'm not a Fluxus poet, and I rather like seeing the persona of the writer expressed. I don't fully understand the other position, but I see capitalism as one big effort to wipe out the human voice and eccentric (read non-commodified) persona and replace it with manufactured voices or, worse, no voice except the "voice" of the commodity. When I think of all the beautiful voices of the poets I've read in my life, I shiver to think of a world where this kind of poetry did not exist, where poetry becomes only a trick of language and not an expression of human experience or vision. What is the prejudice against expression? Perhaps someone can explain. I know people fear sentimental manipulation (which I consider poetic obesity), just as I fear the poem devoid of the human touch (which I consider poetic anorexia). Personally, I love the persona. Besides, underneath the poem, or beside it, over it or through it, is indeed the persona that created it . . . and isn't literature (and art) in general just an excuse to reveal one's psychic guts and vision to a reader (futile as that desire might be)? Even the desire to hide the persona reveals such. Of course, this is a big world and there's always room for both. But personaly speaking . . . BP
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
In a message dated 04/22/2000 5:07:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George et al It's the Cagean "depersonalization of the artist" chance operations proceedures which account for this bias. Jackson MacLow's poetry is an excellent example. RA Ye-ah, I understand that, and I like Cage and MacLow. However, I can help but find it so curious that when many people whose voiceshad not been well presented (afraid to use the word represented) in art began to speak and tell their stories and experiences and visions and have presence in the public sphere of art, a whole movement comes along that wipes out the persona. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, I know that's not the case. And I feel that Cage may have been for the depersonalization of the artist, but still managed to do it in a way that his name is greatly bandied about and well-known. Did he have a day job? Stuff like that interests me. If the artist really wants to be depersonalized, let him/her get a day job in a factory, corporation or fast food restaurant. What is the point of depersonalizing the artist if fame and adoration is still the result, I ask you. Be anonymous if you want depersonalization. Go on, I dare you. How about create art anonymously, don't talk about it, and see what the CHANCES are for fame. I think chance operations are interesting, but only as an interesting path, not the whole road. I'm much more interested in what attemption (rather than intention) can accomplish. Not only in art, but in the world. BP BP In a message dated 04/22/2000 5:07:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George et al It's the Cagean "depersonalization of the artist" chance operations proceedures which account for this bias. Jackson MacLow's poetry is an excellent example. RA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 04/22/2000 1:12:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: George Free wrote: If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. Anyone read the "Gematria" stuff that Jerome Rothenberg did? It's Flux-related, as it's process-oriented, nonexpressive (that is, expresses the language as a thing in itself, not the persona of the writer). AK Of course, I'm not a Fluxus poet, and I rather like seeing the persona of the writer expressed. I don't fully understand the other position, but I see capitalism as one big effort to wipe out the human voice and eccentric (read non-commodified) persona and replace it with manufactured voices or, worse, no voice except the "voice" of the commodity. When I think of all the beautiful voices of the poets I've read in my life, I shiver to think of a world where this kind of poetry did not exist, where poetry becomes only a trick of language and not an expression of human experience or vision. What is the prejudice against expression? Perhaps someone can explain. I know people fear sentimental manipulation (which I consider poetic obesity), just as I fear the poem devoid of the human touch (which I consider poetic anorexia). Personally, I love the persona. Besides, underneath the poem, or beside it, over it or through it, is indeed the persona that created it . . . and isn't literature (and art) in general just an excuse to reveal one's psychic guts and vision to a reader (futile as that desire might be)? Even the desire to hide the persona reveals such. Of course, this is a big world and there's always room for both. But personaly speaking . . . BP
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
What makes Fluxus poetry different from other varieties? I think it might just involve hearing and seeing words differently -- with "happy new ears" (Cage). And not necessarily writing or otherwise saying these words. Just being receptive and open to the the linguistic world around you. If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. The productions should have the effect of producing the above mentioned state of openness in others... cheers, George
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. of course Emmett Williams, Dick Higgins and Allison Knowles
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
sum very straight stuff written while doing laundry after a failed
relationship last year and then relaundered (today) in the William
Burroughs cutup machine
Your text:
Date Thu, 15 Jul 1999 190248 -0700 From Patricia Subject more
laundry rum(room)inations Why
exactly are these driers named after men And the washers
named after women It may actually be quite a
clever fait accompli. These driers are generally larger and
have fewer cycles They require less initial
funding depending on the load depending on the time. They
start out with bravado and lots of heat
caressing the needy contents full of promise for a full ten
minutes before dumping their hopefuls flat
within helter skelter - maybe the job is finished, maybe not
Who cares, they forgot. Maybe action will
pursue be if more persuasion chinks in before dropping the
finery flat agin. Aaah, but these washers Lots
of cycles, many temperatures And they finish the job, they
dont let you down No more silver required
than that original offering, every step followed through with
stellar perfection no throwing the contents to
the floor, but washing, rinsing spinning, fluffing Is
everything clean now, have I done a good job I think
the driers are aptly named. PK Harris Thinking Men are Twits
And should be clothed in white enamel
And reprogrammed
Burroughs:
dust. ('Belch... They'll hear this fart er his tes like
broken condoms splash young
Result:
condoms Thu, Date step is through Lots bravado after in
throwing washers caressing I but are named. of of Who
fluffing ten a
everything on before now, 15 should Aaah, chinks their 1999
flat I -0700
helter Patricia - Harris more flat if larger the Men
rum(room)inations
finished, they exactly these they And persuasion named be
Maybe (Belch...
women will hear done the be It fart named think contents his
finery
may before like be many condoms a they but the full fait
generally
These temperatures finish have clothed cycles down needy
require more
silver required than that original offering, every step
followed
through with stellar perfection no throwing the contents to
the floor,
but washing, rinsing spinning, fluffing Is everything clean
now,
have I done a good job I think the driers are generally
larger and
have fewer cycles They require less initial funding depending
on the
load depending on the load depending on the load depending on
the
time.
So, I guess this makes William Burroughs Fluxus,
fluff, fluff,
pk
Roger Stevens wrote:
How about a book of Fluxus poetry?
Anyone interested?
I'd be happy to collate it, send copies to contributors etc...
R.S.V.P
Roger (poet)
Children's poetry in The Poetry Zone
www.poetryzone.ndirect.co.uk
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
Roger I'm in on that. Can do. RA Roger Stevens wrote: How about a book of Fluxus poetry? Anyone interested? I'd be happy to collate it, send copies to contributors etc... R.S.V.P Roger (poet) Children's poetry in The Poetry Zone www.poetryzone.ndirect.co.uk
Re: FLUXLIST: Poetry
George Free wrote: If production was involved, it should be of the non-expressive, non-intentional sort -- a la Cage, Mac Low etc. Anyone read the "Gematria" stuff that Jerome Rothenberg did? It's Flux-related, as it's process-oriented, nonexpressive (that is, expresses the language as a thing in itself, not the persona of the writer). AK
