Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[micsch]

Am Wednesday 01 March 2017 13:31:06 schrieb Mark Morgan Lloyd:

>
> A colleague's just pointed me at ongoing discussion of the new Asus
> board, where somebody's observing that "OrangePI also offer a solution
> with integrated bootable eMMC"
Industrie Solution with Raspberry

https://revolution.kunbus.com/


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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Travis Siegel]

I don't know anything about your intended use/design, but network storage 
is always an option.  I quite successfully connect to other computers on 
my pi to store extra materials if I need additional backups, including 
copies of the sd card image for booting the pi, and although the access 
isn't exactly lightning fast, it's plenty fast enough for most purposes. 
Assuming the pis aren't going to be out in the field or something, there's 
nothing preventing you from using a file system mounted on the pi that 
physically exists on another system elsewhere on the network, but if it 
comes to that, there's plenty of thumb drives, external hds, and various 
other devices that plug in via usb that will work just as well.  I had 
multiple external hds plugged into my pi via the usb ports, and there was 
no issues whatsoever with them.  I had an 80GB IDE drive in an external 
case plugged in via usb, and I had another drive that was a 500GB SATA 
drive in an external case also connected to the pi via usb, and 
transferring files from pi to drive or indeed from disk a to disk b worked 
perfectly well.  It took time due to the limitations of usb transfer 
rates, but it worked with no trouble.  mounting network shares works too. 
I used to transfer files to my wife's windows machine this way.



On Wed, 1 Mar 2017, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote:


On 01/03/17 12:30, Andreas Berger wrote:

In our previous episode, Mark Morgan Lloyd said:

I agree. Most of our RPis are actually running Debian, but in extremis
it's always possible to roll back to Raspbian as a baseline
configuration.

There are of course other small boards: Olimex, Odroid and now Asus.
However RPi does offer a fairly flexible and cost-effective range, and
unless the OP is considering shipping hundreds rather than 10s of boards
I suggest that getting onto both the Linux learning curve and one for
minority hardware is quite simply not cost-effective.

The problem is that rpi has no fast storage interface (like SATA),
some of
the more expensive orangepis have sata. (though I'm not entirely sure
if it
is not bridged via usb)

Storage is one of the factors the HW developers mentioned. The system
using the Pi will be doing a LOT of information logging. I personally
don't know if it is a factor since all log info in coming in on a 10MBit
ethernet so it shouldn't overload the file system. We have a project
using a Blackfin that save data (in similar proportions) on a SDCard.


I've got a normally very cautious engineer colleague who for the last two or 
three years has been saving CCTV frames onto an SD-Card without problem. I 
think he's still some way from filling it.


My understanding is that there are two issues that need to be considered:

i)  Each cell on that sort of device can only be written a certain number of 
times before its performance degrades. For FAT etc. that includes the 
directory area, which will be getting updated in situ even if the remainder 
of the filesystem is only being written (i.e. to virgin blocks).


ii) A power failure during a write or update is particularly risky.

So far I've had an eMMC module and a couple of (identical) thumb drives fail 
during normal operation, i.e. not through power removal.


The article below, from the well-respected Bunnie Huang, illustrates some 
interesting problems affecting what would be expected to be quality devices. 
https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=1022


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 01/03/17 11:30, Marco van de Voort wrote:

In our previous episode, Mark Morgan Lloyd said:


I agree. Most of our RPis are actually running Debian, but in extremis
it's always possible to roll back to Raspbian as a baseline configuration.

There are of course other small boards: Olimex, Odroid and now Asus.
However RPi does offer a fairly flexible and cost-effective range, and
unless the OP is considering shipping hundreds rather than 10s of boards
I suggest that getting onto both the Linux learning curve and one for
minority hardware is quite simply not cost-effective.


The problem is that rpi has no fast storage interface (like SATA), some of
the more expensive orangepis have sata. (though I'm not entirely sure if it
is not bridged via usb)


A colleague's just pointed me at ongoing discussion of the new Asus 
board, where somebody's observing that "OrangePI also offer a solution 
with integrated bootable eMMC"


I had an Odroid/Hardkernel eMMC module fail a few weeks ago, and my 
understanding is that I'm by no means the only person to have seen this. 
I also believe that the manufacturer is keenly aware of the problems... 
but at least it was a removable device and once pulled the board will 
boot from SD-Card.


Being able to plug an ordinary SD-Card into a Raspberry Pi is definitely 
one of its strong points. It's a bit unfortunate that it doesn't use one 
of the standard boot loaders (U-Boot, OpenFirmware or whatever) but it 
generally /just/ /works/, and it doesn't rely on having an onboard 
component which can only be fixed by JTAG when it breaks.


Now one might argue that as long as it works or at least can be fixed, 
the boot loader isn't relevant to something like FPC and/or Lazarus. But 
I'm currently playing with an Arduino-compatible board hooked onto the 
RPi's console port, and to get that working I had to change the kernel 
command line: for an RPi that meant editing a text file, while for many 
other boards it would mean updating Flash.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Andreas Berger]

In our previous episode, Mark Morgan Lloyd said:

I agree. Most of our RPis are actually running Debian, but in extremis
it's always possible to roll back to Raspbian as a baseline configuration.

There are of course other small boards: Olimex, Odroid and now Asus.
However RPi does offer a fairly flexible and cost-effective range, and
unless the OP is considering shipping hundreds rather than 10s of boards
I suggest that getting onto both the Linux learning curve and one for
minority hardware is quite simply not cost-effective.

The problem is that rpi has no fast storage interface (like SATA), some of
the more expensive orangepis have sata. (though I'm not entirely sure if it
is not bridged via usb)
Storage is one of the factors the HW developers mentioned. The system 
using the Pi will be doing a LOT of information logging. I personally 
don't know if it is a factor since all log info in coming in on a 10MBit 
ethernet so it shouldn't overload the file system. We have a project 
using a Blackfin that save data (in similar proportions) on a SDCard.


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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 01/03/17 11:30, Marco van de Voort wrote:

In our previous episode, Mark Morgan Lloyd said:


I agree. Most of our RPis are actually running Debian, but in extremis
it's always possible to roll back to Raspbian as a baseline configuration.

There are of course other small boards: Olimex, Odroid and now Asus.
However RPi does offer a fairly flexible and cost-effective range, and
unless the OP is considering shipping hundreds rather than 10s of boards
I suggest that getting onto both the Linux learning curve and one for
minority hardware is quite simply not cost-effective.


The problem is that rpi has no fast storage interface (like SATA), some of
the more expensive orangepis have sata. (though I'm not entirely sure if it
is not bridged via usb)


That's true and is obviously a major point. I've got an RPi3 on my desk 
and even though it's not using its SD-Card for live storage there are 
mystery slowdowns which suggests that something's hogging the USB.


But it /is/ fairly painless for (32-bit) FPC and for Lazarus, running 
KDE but with most programs targeting GTK2. I've run an Odroid C2 enough 
to respect the hardware and low-level firmware but to be a bit dubious 
about their bundled Ubuntu, and more than anything else that's a sign 
that there's quite simply not enough people using it.


And speaking as the one person who more than anybody else has bullied 
the community to keep things like SPARC going over the years, I'm keenly 
aware of how frustrating it can be when people agree that it's worth 
fixing something but not enough developers have the required hardware 
(or space, or tolerance for heat and noise :-)


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Marco van de Voort]

In our previous episode, Mark Morgan Lloyd said:
> 
> I agree. Most of our RPis are actually running Debian, but in extremis 
> it's always possible to roll back to Raspbian as a baseline configuration.
> 
> There are of course other small boards: Olimex, Odroid and now Asus. 
> However RPi does offer a fairly flexible and cost-effective range, and 
> unless the OP is considering shipping hundreds rather than 10s of boards 
> I suggest that getting onto both the Linux learning curve and one for 
> minority hardware is quite simply not cost-effective.

The problem is that rpi has no fast storage interface (like SATA), some of
the more expensive orangepis have sata. (though I'm not entirely sure if it
is not bridged via usb)
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 01/03/17 10:30, Bo Berglund wrote:

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 09:17:49 +0200, Cyrax  wrote:


You should report your findings to the bugtracker so they can be fixed.



The FPC or Lazarus or RPi or Raspbian or Orange bugtracker?
Not clear to me.


First test: OP to do

echo $0

If that doesn't show the name of the shell, possibly prefixed by - , 
then it's definitely an Orange problem. In other cases please post a 
minimal FPC (i.e. not Lazarus) program showing the problem, telling us 
/exactly/ what version of FPC is being used.


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Bo Berglund]

On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 08:48:16 +, Mark Morgan Lloyd
 wrote:

>> the following functions fail (within fpc/lazarus calls)
>>
>> Params all return blank - so cant use Param(0) etc
>> ApplicatioName returns blank
>> ProgramDirectory returns blank
>>
>> There may be others, but haven't hit them yet.
>
>That sounds like the OS has mangled the shell in some way.

And from the Orange's webpage each model has its own set of possible
OS:es so there is a chance that it will actually work somewhere, but
who knows where?
With the RPi we know it works and there is ample developer support to
plug a problem fairly quickly.


-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden

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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Mark Morgan Lloyd]

On 01/03/17 02:30, Steve Gatenby wrote:

On 28/02/17 11:55, Andreas wrote:

The company I work for will be realizing an embedded project using
Orange PI. I can use any tool I want, but the project will be on a
Orange PI (A very small chance of Raspberry PI). Does any one have FPC
running on Orange PI? If so would you be willing to help me get set up?
I am totally unpracticed in Linux, but am sure I can get into it.


Using multiple OrangePI-PC's here

Haven't loaded FPC/Lazarus directly on the OPI, but I am running apps
pre-built (on an Odroid UX4) using fpc/lazarus on it.

So far all good - except

the following functions fail (within fpc/lazarus calls)

Params all return blank - so cant use Param(0) etc
ApplicatioName returns blank
ProgramDirectory returns blank

There may be others, but haven't hit them yet.


That sounds like the OS has mangled the shell in some way.


I have work-arounds for these if you need them


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Cyrax]

On 01.03.2017 04:05, Steve Gatenby wrote:


On 28/02/17 11:55, Andreas wrote:

The company I work for will be realizing an embedded project using
Orange PI. I can use any tool I want, but the project will be on a
Orange PI (A very small chance of Raspberry PI). Does any one have FPC
running on Orange PI? If so would you be willing to help me get set up?
I am totally unpracticed in Linux, but am sure I can get into it.


Using multiple OrangePI-PC's here

Haven't loaded FPC/Lazarus directly on the OPI, but I am running apps
pre-built (on an Odroid UX4) using fpc/lazarus on it.

So far all good - except

the following functions fail (within fpc/lazarus calls)

Params all return blank - so cant use Param(0) etc
ApplicatioName returns blank
ProgramDirectory returns blank

There may be others, but haven't hit them yet.

I have work-arounds for these if you need them

SteveG
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You should report your findings to the bugtracker so they can be fixed.

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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Bo Berglund]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 22:08:31 -0300, Andreas Berger
 wrote:

>Bo, when the time comes for me to start working on any Pi, can I get in 
>contact with you to help get FPC started?

Shure, you're welcome!


-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden

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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Andreas Berger]

Thanks Steve, some of those blanks could be irritating. I am really 
encouraged by how people are willing to help. When the time comes those 
workaround could become handy, especially since I don't have a clue 
about the linus API.


Andreas


On 28/02/2017 23:05, Steve Gatenby wrote:


On 28/02/17 11:55, Andreas wrote:

The company I work for will be realizing an embedded project using
Orange PI. I can use any tool I want, but the project will be on a
Orange PI (A very small chance of Raspberry PI). Does any one have FPC
running on Orange PI? If so would you be willing to help me get set up?
I am totally unpracticed in Linux, but am sure I can get into it.


Using multiple OrangePI-PC's here

Haven't loaded FPC/Lazarus directly on the OPI, but I am running apps 
pre-built (on an Odroid UX4) using fpc/lazarus on it.


So far all good - except

the following functions fail (within fpc/lazarus calls)

Params all return blank - so cant use Param(0) etc
ApplicatioName returns blank
ProgramDirectory returns blank

There may be others, but haven't hit them yet.

I have work-arounds for these if you need them

SteveG
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Steve Gatenby]

On 28/02/17 11:55, Andreas wrote:

The company I work for will be realizing an embedded project using
Orange PI. I can use any tool I want, but the project will be on a
Orange PI (A very small chance of Raspberry PI). Does any one have FPC
running on Orange PI? If so would you be willing to help me get set up?
I am totally unpracticed in Linux, but am sure I can get into it.


Using multiple OrangePI-PC's here

Haven't loaded FPC/Lazarus directly on the OPI, but I am running apps 
pre-built (on an Odroid UX4) using fpc/lazarus on it.


So far all good - except

the following functions fail (within fpc/lazarus calls)

Params all return blank - so cant use Param(0) etc
ApplicatioName returns blank
ProgramDirectory returns blank

There may be others, but haven't hit them yet.

I have work-arounds for these if you need them

SteveG
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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Andreas Berger]

Bo, thanks for your two answers. I'm also pushing RPi, but the company 
is looking price. However, it looks like the OPi is closing the gap so 
who knows what will be when the company makes the final decision. It was 
good to see that if FPC works on RPi it should work on OPi.


Bo, when the time comes for me to start working on any Pi, can I get in 
contact with you to help get FPC started?



On 28/02/2017 04:52, Bo Berglund wrote:

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:28:05 +0100, Bo Berglund
 wrote:


Why not go with the original Raspberry Pi instead?

I found a test video on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzy914jLU_w

Seems like going original RPi is better.



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Re: [fpc-other] Anyone using Orange PI

[Bo Berglund]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 08:28:05 +0100, Bo Berglund
 wrote:

>Why not go with the original Raspberry Pi instead?

I found a test video on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzy914jLU_w

Seems like going original RPi is better.

-- 
Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden

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