Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
On Jul 16, 2011, at 11:38 PM, Rugxulo wrote: Included with this zip file is the a86 assembler used to compile the code, which obviously would need to be removed for the freedos distribution copy, since it's a completely separate application. Just for the record, A86 is shareware, so in theory it's fine including it (though obviously NASM would be better). Of course, I find it funny that you use an ancient copy (3.22 from 1990!) when even latest 4.05 has been stable for 10 years!! ;-)I assume there's no hard dependency on that particular version. Oh well, it doesn't matter right now, I just find it funny. ;-) I own the registered copy of a86, and I know 4.05 is the latest. I didn't write the provox program, merely took it over from it's original author. Apparently, 3.22 is the version used for development. Another reason why I figured it would be better to separate the assembler from the screen reader. As for porting it to nasm, that's not something I've looked at yet, I expect it won't be a straightforward port, but perhaps it will surprise me and work out quickly and easily. :) I'll not be able to check into that for quite some time though, since I'm in the middle of a move, and my hardware is scattered between two different states. -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
The provox screen reader for dos which I would like to have added to the freedos ftp site is currently located at: http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/provox/provox7.zip [...] Included with this zip file is the a86 assembler used to compile the code, which obviously would need to be removed for the freedos distribution copy, since it's a completely separate application. Just for the record, A86 is shareware, so in theory it's fine including it (though obviously NASM would be better). Of course, I find it funny that you use an ancient copy (3.22 from 1990!) when even latest 4.05 has been stable for 10 years!! ;-) I assume there's no hard dependency on that particular version. Oh well, it doesn't matter right now, I just find it funny. ;-) Actually, we include only a very few non-Free programs in the FreeDOS distribution. Shareware is not Free because you cannot modify it and you cannot distribute it freely to others. Most shareware programs require that you not break up their package and include it with something else, and/or that you may only distribute the program in the unmodified/original form. A86 specifically states this in their documentation: (A01.DOC) This package is provided to you under the following conditions: 1. You may copy the A86Vxxx.ZIP and D86Vxxx.ZIP files, and give them to anyone who accepts these terms. The copies you distribute must be complete and unmodified. You do not have to be registered to distribute this package. So unless Provox has permission somewhere (and I didn't see a file indicating as much, but maybe I missed it) then this is already in violation of A86, because A86 is not distributed as the original ZIP files. Also note this from A01.DOC: 5. Only permanent registered users can sell or distribute any programs that you have written or modified using this assembler. If you do sell or distribute such programs, you must insure that your registered name (company or individual) will always be distributed with the program, so that I can verify your registration. Any individual or company found to be violating these terms will be liable for triple registration fees for every machine they own capable of running my assembler (plus any legal and court costs). That seems very clear. While the documentation appears to indicate that a private individual may use the unregistered A86 to compile Provox, that same unregistered individual cannot distribute it to others. Only someone who has registered the A86 program may share their A86-built programs with others. Reading this closely, programs like Provox that are built using the A86 assember may only be distributed by people who have registered A86. (IANAL) Else, there's a monetary penalty clause. This makes it impossible for us to include this version of Provox (which is built using A86) with the FreeDOS distribution. So Provox would need to be assemble-able using a different, free assember such as NASM before we could include it with FreeDOS. Sorry. -jh -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
Hi, On 7/17/11, Travis Siegel tsie...@softcon.com wrote: I own the registered copy of a86, and I know 4.05 is the latest. I didn't write the provox program, merely took it over from it's original author. Apparently, 3.22 is the version used for development. Another reason why I figured it would be better to separate the assembler from the screen reader. Well, have you ever tried building it with 4.05? Hopefully there are no issues there. As for porting it to nasm, that's not something I've looked at yet, I expect it won't be a straightforward port, but perhaps it will surprise me and work out quickly and easily. :) I'll not be able to check into that for quite some time though, since I'm in the middle of a move, and my hardware is scattered between two different states. I really didn't expect you to actually do this, just saying that I know most people don't (won't) use A86. I've used A86 in the past, but I prefer other tools nowadays. Please don't waste time on that conversion right now. ;-) -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
Hi, On 7/17/11, Jim Hall jh...@freedos.org wrote: The provox screen reader for dos which I would like to have added to the freedos ftp site is currently located at: [...] Included with this zip file is the a86 assembler used to compile Just for the record, A86 is shareware, so in theory it's fine including it (though obviously NASM would be better). Actually, we include only a very few non-Free programs in the FreeDOS distribution. Shareware is not Free because you cannot modify it and you cannot distribute it freely to others. Most shareware programs require that you not break up their package and include it with something else, and/or that you may only distribute the program in the unmodified/original form. A86 specifically states this in their documentation: (A01.DOC) My point wasn't that you would actually prefer to redistribute it, rather that since it's shareware, it's most definitely legal to do so. Yes, I know FreeDOS prefers free/libre! This package is provided to you under the following conditions: 1. You may copy the A86Vxxx.ZIP and D86Vxxx.ZIP files, and give them to anyone who accepts these terms. The copies you distribute must be complete and unmodified. You do not have to be registered to distribute this package. I would blindly assume he meant don't hack the binaries more than splitting up the .ZIPs. So unless Provox has permission somewhere (and I didn't see a file indicating as much, but maybe I missed it) then this is already in violation of A86, because A86 is not distributed as the original ZIP files. It's got a few other A86 files in there. It *could* be complete, but I didn't bother checking. Well, we'd have to find stock 3.22 first! http://www.atari-portfolio.co.uk/library/language/a86v322.zip http://www.eji.com/a86/index.htm(latest 4.05 from 2000) Well, it's mostly there, perhaps forgot D.EXE (debugger), but otherwise mostly seems there. Also note this from A01.DOC: 5. Only permanent registered users can sell or distribute any programs that you have written or modified using this assembler. If you do sell or distribute such programs, you must insure that your registered name (company or individual) will always be distributed with the program, so that I can verify your registration. Any individual or company found to be violating these terms will be liable for triple registration fees for every machine they own capable of running my assembler (plus any legal and court costs). Note that I too find this pretty restrictive, but indeed he is trying to make a living. Still seems a bit harsh. But I contacted him a few years ago, and he indicated that he had never gone after anybody yet (and I presume he wouldn't dream of it for non-commercial use like Provox). That seems very clear. While the documentation appears to indicate that a private individual may use the unregistered A86 to compile Provox, that same unregistered individual cannot distribute it to others. Only someone who has registered the A86 program may share their A86-built programs with others. Reading this closely, programs like Provox that are built using the A86 assember may only be distributed by people who have registered A86. (IANAL) Else, there's a monetary penalty clause. This makes it impossible for us to include this version of Provox (which is built using A86) with the FreeDOS distribution. Don't worry, Travis' previous email already says he's a registered user. So Provox would need to be assemble-able using a different, free assember such as NASM before we could include it with FreeDOS. Sorry. I have some limited experience translating between assemblers, so even this isn't unfeasible. It's far from impossible here, but I don't think it's necessary (see above). However, DTC.LIB doesn't seem to have sources, but I'm not sure what exactly that does or if it's needed or what the deal is, so we'll have to wait for Travis to explain that. (Perhaps that is the optional hardware synthesizer part??) -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
On Jul 17, 2011, at 5:37 PM, Rugxulo wrote: However, DTC.LIB doesn't seem to have sources, but I'm not sure what exactly that does or if it's needed or what the deal is, so we'll have to wait for Travis to explain that. (Perhaps that is the optional hardware synthesizer part??) Hmm, good point. The dtc.lib is the library required to talk to dectalk synthesizers. Source is not available, but I've seen it included in other products as well, so apparently it's not against the license to distribute it in and of itself, as long as it's part of another package. I did manage to talk to the dectalk folks some years ago, and although the topic of the libs came up, I didn't specifically ask if it was ok to distribute it as part of another package, though it would almost have to be, unless their license specifically states it should be compiled into the executable and not distributed separately. That would kind of defeat the purpose of the lib in that case I'd think, but if anyone else knows better, I'm of course willing to take reports to the contrary. I'm fairly certain (though not positive) that obtaining the initial copy of the dectalk libs did require a fee of some tipe, as far as I know, there's no restriction against distributing the lib itself (since it's necessary for program usage) and since none of the other files are included, it should be ok, but again, the keyword is should. I know dec had sold dectalk somewhere along the line, though who owns rights to it now is a huge question, (and was at the time I had been talking to the original dectalk folks) but since I personally haven't heard a peep out of anyone relating to the lib, and as far as I know, nobody else has either, it may be a moot point, but that's only gpl/ freeware talking, not commercial distribution plans as is needed with some of the other windows/dos screen readers, so there may or may not be something lurking there, but I tend to doubt it. However, it's easy enough to remove the lib if it becomes absolutely necessary, which would disable support for dectalk synths, though I'm relatively sure (though not positive) that other external synths will still operate. I can do some testing after I get all my hardware in a single location. Again, I stress that this archive as currently posted is as I received it, and not with the modified docs/license file I worked on afterwords. I'm of course willing to make whatever changes are necessary to get this into freedos archives, since it really is the best place for it, so that folks who need it will have a much easier time finding it. As for a86, it may be possible that the author will be silling to relase shareware terms on a copy that could be included in freedos as well, even if it is w/o source, just for such cases as this. I only talked with him once, but he sure seemed like the reasonable sort at the time. -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] provox dos screen reader
Hi, On 7/16/11, Travis Siegel tsie...@softcon.com wrote: The provox screen reader for dos which I would like to have added to the freedos ftp site is currently located at: http://www.thesiegelsnest.us/provox/provox7.zip Looks good so far. So, If there are any other folks on list who use screen readers under dos, feel free to grab this one and give it a try. IIRC, there were two or three around here. The only name that comes to mind is Jude DeShell (sp?). But I'd have to dig up his e-mail (if you really really wanted). I assume he can find out by himself. Included with this zip file is the a86 assembler used to compile the code, which obviously would need to be removed for the freedos distribution copy, since it's a completely separate application. Just for the record, A86 is shareware, so in theory it's fine including it (though obviously NASM would be better). Of course, I find it funny that you use an ancient copy (3.22 from 1990!) when even latest 4.05 has been stable for 10 years!! ;-)I assume there's no hard dependency on that particular version. Oh well, it doesn't matter right now, I just find it funny. ;-) -- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on Lean Startup Secrets Revealed. This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
