Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
HI Eric, just to let you know (isn’t a question, just an observation for a nice feature) on my HP Think Client AND on my Mini ITX, both can do (without any tweaking or stuff): 1. Plug in 2 USB Sticks (one has the bootable FreeDOS on it) both are FAT formated (FAT) 2. boot into FreeDOS from USB-Stick 3. BOTH USB Sticks are avaible for Read/Write. (as drives C: and D:) Regards, Thomas > On Wed,20210414- week15, at 19:22, Eric Auer wrote: > > > Hi Thomas, > >> I just found a recipe regarding USB-Sticks & MS-DOS. > >> SOURCE: https://slomkowski.eu/retrocomputing/usb-mass-storage-on-ms-dos/ > > Well, the old USBASPI drivers might work for you, yes. > Or those by Bret Johnson. Or those by Georg Potthast: > > http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/ > > The general problem is that each driver only supports > a limited set of different controller chips, so it will > depend on your luck on whether one works for you. > > The drivers by Georg are shareware and will only work > for a limited time after each boot, but that is probably > enough for what you want to do :-) > > Regards, Eric > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi Thomas, > I just found a recipe regarding USB-Sticks & MS-DOS. > SOURCE: https://slomkowski.eu/retrocomputing/usb-mass-storage-on-ms-dos/ Well, the old USBASPI drivers might work for you, yes. Or those by Bret Johnson. Or those by Georg Potthast: http://www.georgpotthast.de/usb/ The general problem is that each driver only supports a limited set of different controller chips, so it will depend on your luck on whether one works for you. The drivers by Georg are shareware and will only work for a limited time after each boot, but that is probably enough for what you want to do :-) Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
I just found a recipe regarding USB-Sticks & MS-DOS. It says „...Although DOS lacks built-in USB support, some unofficial drivers are available. They leverage the fact that USB mass storage uses SCSI command set. SCSI hard drives were readily available during golden years of MS-DOS. The USB driver simply emulates SCSI adapter.“ (SOURCE: https://slomkowski.eu/retrocomputing/usb-mass-storage-on-ms-dos/ ) Could this also work on FreeDos? -Thomas > Am 14.04.2021 um 14:42 schrieb Eric Auer : > > > Hi Stephanos, > >> Dell ... looked at the problem and confirmed that: >> 1) there is no BIOS update offered for my laptop, N5030 >> 2) that the BIOs update that I was using is for model M5030, >> which has an AMD processor. Mine has an Intel processor > > That explains a lot! > >> 3) they are not going to offer a BIOS update for my laptop >> >> Thanks to everyone for the assistance. I now know how to make a >> bootable media and put files onto the media that I can see in that >> enviroinment. That is going to be useful. >> >> One question remains >> a) does anyone know anyone who can write a BIOS for me? > > But you already HAVE a BIOS, it just is old? Please > explain what exactly you want to change in your BIOS, > why, and which type of processor you have exactly. > > Regards, Eric > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi Stephanos, > Dell ... looked at the problem and confirmed that: > 1) there is no BIOS update offered for my laptop, N5030 > 2) that the BIOs update that I was using is for model M5030, > which has an AMD processor. Mine has an Intel processor That explains a lot! > 3) they are not going to offer a BIOS update for my laptop > > Thanks to everyone for the assistance. I now know how to make a > bootable media and put files onto the media that I can see in that > enviroinment. That is going to be useful. > > One question remains > a) does anyone know anyone who can write a BIOS for me? But you already HAVE a BIOS, it just is old? Please explain what exactly you want to change in your BIOS, why, and which type of processor you have exactly. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear All Dell offer an 0800 number in the UK to receive technical assistance. I rang it. They looked at the problem and confirmed that: 1) there is no BIOS update offered for my laptop, N5030 2) that the BIOs update that I was using is for model M5030, which has an AMD processor. Mine has an Intel processor 3) they are not going to offer a BIOS update for my laptop Thanks to everyone for the assistance. I now know how to make a bootable media and put files onto the media that I can see in that enviroinment. That is going to be useful. One question remains a) does anyone know anyone who can write a BIOS for me? Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos On 12/04/2021 15:07, Liam Proven wrote: On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 15:57, Adam Nielsen via Freedos-user wrote: Probably many of these don't apply to FreeDOS. The boot menu (where you saw the FDOS option) I think at least gives you the option of pressing F8 to toggle single-stepping, which will ask you to answer yes or no for each thing that tries to load. You could do this and just answer N for everything, which although a bit tedious would achieve the same result. I guess the other thing, which I thought I had used with FreeDOS, is to hold down Shift as DOS boots, which does the same as F5: skips processing of CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT. One other thing - the service tag you're using, that matches the service tag shown in the F2 BIOS setup? I thought something similar: there seem to be 3 variants of the D5030, using Intel and AMD chips -- which must also mean a different motherboard and chipset, as AMD and Intel chips do not work in each other's motherboards or even fit into each other's sockets. An Intel BIOS won't work in an AMD board, and an AMD BIOS won't work on an Intel board. For at least one variant, revision A02 looked to be the latest. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 15:57, Adam Nielsen via Freedos-user wrote: > > Probably many of these don't apply to FreeDOS. The boot menu (where > you saw the FDOS option) I think at least gives you the option of > pressing F8 to toggle single-stepping, which will ask you to answer yes > or no for each thing that tries to load. You could do this and just > answer N for everything, which although a bit tedious would achieve the > same result. I guess the other thing, which I thought I had used with FreeDOS, is to hold down Shift as DOS boots, which does the same as F5: skips processing of CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT. > One other thing - the service tag you're using, that matches the > service tag shown in the F2 BIOS setup? I thought something similar: there seem to be 3 variants of the D5030, using Intel and AMD chips -- which must also mean a different motherboard and chipset, as AMD and Intel chips do not work in each other's motherboards or even fit into each other's sockets. An Intel BIOS won't work in an AMD board, and an AMD BIOS won't work on an Intel board. For at least one variant, revision A02 looked to be the latest. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi Stephanos, > Regarding the F5 suggestion. This was not possible. With the memory > stick in the USB port and after turning the laptop on, even while > pressing F5 constantly the memory stick boots just the same, to the user > menu. If I continue to press F5 constantly when I select fdos there is > no visible difference. And of course I execute the file with the same > result. I was rather hoping someone else would jump in here with the correct suggestions as I'm not sure where in the docs all the available keys are. All I could find was some MS-DOS suggestions for later versions that came with Windows 95: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20121001-00/?p=6443 Probably many of these don't apply to FreeDOS. The boot menu (where you saw the FDOS option) I think at least gives you the option of pressing F8 to toggle single-stepping, which will ask you to answer yes or no for each thing that tries to load. You could do this and just answer N for everything, which although a bit tedious would achieve the same result. One other thing - the service tag you're using, that matches the service tag shown in the F2 BIOS setup? Bit of a wild guess but since the DOS and Windows programs won't work I am just wondering whether the laptop has been repaired at some point but not with the original parts. Although unlikely, if a motherboard from a similar but different model had been used, the service tag shown in the BIOS would be different to the service tag label on the laptop body and could explain the issue. Cheers, Adam. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 at 12:13, Mateusz Viste wrote: > > You should have done like Liam tells you from the beginning. Thank you! :-) > He provides > correct, detailed and verified steps. The operation is as simple as > booting DOS from a removable drive (CD/floppy/USB) to run a single > executable... Any other method is likely to either not work or damage > your PC (esp. if you follow what Michael C. Robinson has been > suggesting). Using Windows to update a BIOS firmware looks perhaps like > an easy way out, but I wouldn't risk my PC with it myself, even if it's > one of the methods suggested by the motherboard producer. I agree on all counts. Booting DOS from a USB key is quite easy on any computer from the last 10-15 years. It needs no drivers or anything; the system firmware makes the USB key look like a hard disk to DOS, so it is _much easier_ than trying to access a USB device from DOS, which needs complex drivers and configuration. And since the USB key can be used again and again, unlike an optical medium, it is more environmentally friendly too, as well as easier. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear Adam Thanks for the suggestions. I agree that Dell are good at only showing the right drivers for a specific Service Tag. Which is what has confused me. They show 2 BIOS files and label each as for different models, M5030 and N5031 but each has the note "This PC". I went back into the BIOS but cannot see anything to prevent an update of the BIOS Regarding the F5 suggestion. This was not possible. With the memory stick in the USB port and after turning the laptop on, even while pressing F5 constantly the memory stick boots just the same, to the user menu. If I continue to press F5 constantly when I select fdos there is no visible difference. And of course I execute the file with the same result. Thanks for the suggestions I am glad I tried them Best wishes Stpehnaos On 11/04/2021 02:28, Adam Nielsen wrote: I booted the stick, was a bit confused as to why freedos did not do anything and fdos was the option, and found the BIOS file in drive C:\. I ran it. It looked promising, but alas, alack, no. -Start to flash ……. [ Y / N]: Y - Error: Problem getting flash information C:\> I went back to the Dell website, entered my service tag: BQBD9N1 and downloaded the latest BIOS file “M5030A05.EXE” (again, and remember the A05 is a latter version to the installed BIOS which describes its version as A02). https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/product-support/servicetag/0-YXhUR091TFhQWVdkR0VXeUY0cTREQT090/drivers I deleted the BIOS file on the USB stick, copied over the new one and tried again. You've done everything correctly. Dell are very good about ensuring you only see updates for the correct machine when you look it up by service tag so you definitely have the right file. The fact that it could not get the flash information means that something else is interfering with what the program is trying to do. Any best guesses welcome, or am I at the end of the line? You can try pressing F5 a few times as FreeDOS is first booting which will prevent it loading any DOS memory managers which can sometimes interfere with direct hardware access. If this works you should see a lot fewer messages on the screen before you see the C:\> prompt. If that still doesn't work, all I can suggest is going into the BIOS setup (F2 at the Dell logo) and make sure there aren't any options set that might be preventing the BIOS from being updated for security/antivirus reasons. Cheers, Adam. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
> I booted the stick, was a bit confused as to why freedos did not do > anything and fdos was the option, and found the BIOS file in drive C:\. > I ran it. It looked promising, but alas, alack, no. > -Start to flash ……. [ Y / N]: Y > - Error: Problem getting flash information > C:\> > > I went back to the Dell website, entered my service tag: BQBD9N1 and > downloaded the latest BIOS file “M5030A05.EXE” (again, and remember the > A05 is a latter version to the installed BIOS which describes its > version as A02). > https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/product-support/servicetag/0-YXhUR091TFhQWVdkR0VXeUY0cTREQT090/drivers > > I deleted the BIOS file on the USB stick, copied over the new one and > tried again. You've done everything correctly. Dell are very good about ensuring you only see updates for the correct machine when you look it up by service tag so you definitely have the right file. The fact that it could not get the flash information means that something else is interfering with what the program is trying to do. > Any best guesses welcome, or am I at the end of the line? You can try pressing F5 a few times as FreeDOS is first booting which will prevent it loading any DOS memory managers which can sometimes interfere with direct hardware access. If this works you should see a lot fewer messages on the screen before you see the C:\> prompt. If that still doesn't work, all I can suggest is going into the BIOS setup (F2 at the Dell logo) and make sure there aren't any options set that might be preventing the BIOS from being updated for security/antivirus reasons. Cheers, Adam. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On 10/04/2021 14:26, Stephanos wrote: I booted the stick, was a bit confused as to why freedos did not do anything and fdos was the option, and found the BIOS file in drive C:\. I ran it. It looked promising, but alas, alack, no. -Start to flash ……. [ Y / N]: Y - Error: Problem getting flash information C:\> The method is good. Now you need to figure out why the tool is unable to communicate with your BIOS chip. Perhaps the EXE tool is not compatible with your specific motherboard revision? Or there is some kind of "BIOS protection" (or "CMOS antivirus") enabled in the BIOS? I can only guess. Making the USB stick bootable and being able to add files to it was so easy. It is as though the root of the memory stick was C:\? The USB stick being C: is normal and expected, your BIOS emulates a normal hard disk and exposes that to DOS, doing the USB<->HDD interface translation on the fly. Mateusz ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 14:26:30 +0200, Stephanos wrote: > [...] I ran it. It looked promising, but alas, alack, no. > -Start to flash ……. [ Y / N]: Y > - Error: Problem getting flash information > [...] > I then tried Tomas’ suggestion: “start a shell (command window) as > administrator (important) and then run the exe from there. If that just > fails silently then you probably have the wrong bios file.” > It failed silently. > Could I really have the wrong file? Well, your motherboard is too old for that version, I guess. You should be able to figure that out by checking the model numbers on the Dell web site or the bios file. /Tomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Greetings one and all, here is an update I followed the instructions on the Dell website: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000131486/update-the-dell-bios-in-a-linux-or-ubuntu-environment#UpdateBIOS At first the instruction about copying the BIOS file to the USB storage device confused me because I though I was supposed to copy the file into the Unetbootin interface. (after figure 6). I booted the stick, was a bit confused as to why freedos did not do anything and fdos was the option, and found the BIOS file in drive C:\. I ran it. It looked promising, but alas, alack, no. -Start to flash ……. [ Y / N]: Y - Error: Problem getting flash information C:\> I went back to the Dell website, entered my service tag: BQBD9N1 and downloaded the latest BIOS file “M5030A05.EXE” (again, and remember the A05 is a latter version to the installed BIOS which describes its version as A02). https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/product-support/servicetag/0-YXhUR091TFhQWVdkR0VXeUY0cTREQT090/drivers I deleted the BIOS file on the USB stick, copied over the new one and tried again. Same error message. Making the USB stick bootable and being able to add files to it was so easy. It is as though the root of the memory stick was C:\? I then tried Tomas’ suggestion: “start a shell (command window) as administrator (important) and then run the exe from there. If that just fails silently then you probably have the wrong bios file.” It failed silently. Could I really have the wrong file? The only other BIOD file is the same version as the installed BIOS. Any best guesses welcome, or am I at the end of the line? Stephanos On 10/04/2021 12:31, Tomas By wrote: Hi, Ok, one more thing you can try is to start a shell (command window) as aministrator (important) and then run the exe from there. If that just fails silently then you probably have the wrong bios file. I checked your previous msg again, and it sounds like you have not yet managed to boot Freedos? Just get the "USB Lite" image, it does not matter much which version, and then write it to the stick in any of multiple different ways. I use "Etcher" in Linux, "Unetbootin" sounds like pretty much the same thing. Write image, copy the .exe to it, and then boot. /Tomas On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:20:34 +0200, Stephanos wrote: Dear Tomas Thanks for the reminder. Yes. After installation of 7 from DVD I did not make a user account, nor set a password for the default admin account. The laptop is not connected to the internet. I copied the bios file from my PC to the laptop via the memory stick, which only had that file on it, no other bootable image. I ran the file and it did not work. However, I tried again as a result of your prompt and right clicked on the file and chose run as admin. But no joy. Thanks Stephanos ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi! > OK, and thanks to all. I have now read the Dell website about updating > from within Linux and noted the fact that I should use FreeDOS base 1.0 Or newer, I guess. > Although the upgrade will not give me Virtualisation, I have another > reason for continuing with upgrading the BIOS. It provides better > support for the battery. So it seems to me that although Windows 7 is > on the laptop the issue remains, how to upgrade the BIOS using my 64 GB > memory stick, FreeDOS and other things. I was put off by the fact that > something special had to be done to make the BIOS upgrade file available > after the boot to FreeDOS. I was comfortable with booting FreeDOS from > a CD/DVD and just wanted to put the memory stick in, navigate to it and > run the file, but that was not to be. The main point is that you first have to boot DOS. Just opening some DOS file in Linux or running DOS in a window in Linux is not what you need. If you would do that, you will still have booted Linux, not DOS. So you need a DOS boot disk. Because your update is so big, this is not a boot diskette any more. In this century, you can use a CD, DVD or USB stick. For making a DOS boot USB stick, you can use UNetbootin: https://unetbootin.github.io/#distros It already has a menu item to download and install FreeDOS for you, apparently. The alternative is that you download FreeDOS yourself and give the file to UNetbootin. The next task is to put your BIOS update file and update tool at a place where you can open it in DOS. As explained, if you use the FreeDOS IMG file and dd, you end up having a 32 MB DOS USB drive partition where you can add and remove files easily. If you use ISO, replacing files works in a different way. Because you already have Windows on your harddisk at the moment, you can also make a FAT partition on your harddisk (DOS does not see NTFS partitions) and put the BIOS tool and update files there instead of on the stick. No matter which way you select, you always have to boot from your DOS boot medium at some point. Then, when asked whether to install DOS on your harddisk, you could say no. But as you only have Windows on your harddisk at the moment, you can just as well say yes and throw Windows out to have a look at FreeDOS, of course. Either after booting the DOS installed on your harddisk or by simply leaving the install process without installing DOS, you will have a DOS command prompt. As soon as you are at the DOS command prompt, you can type the commands given by the Dell BIOS update instructions to update your BIOS. I guess we could also use some chat to help you interactively :-) > We are, I suggest, still in business and that the objective has not > changed, just the circumstances, the laptop has Windows 7 on it. I want > to prepare the memory stick using my PC with Windows 10 on it, insert > the stick into the laptop, boot the laptop and then obey any instructions. If you want to prepare your DOS boot stick on Windows 10, no problem! You can use Rufus to make a bootable FreeDOS USB stick. Check this: http://rufus.ie/ As soon as you have booted DOS from the stick, you can follow the Dell instructions. Obviously, you want to add the BIOS update and tools on your USB stick before booting from it, or at least put the files at another location which you can access from DOS :-) Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi, Ok, one more thing you can try is to start a shell (command window) as aministrator (important) and then run the exe from there. If that just fails silently then you probably have the wrong bios file. I checked your previous msg again, and it sounds like you have not yet managed to boot Freedos? Just get the "USB Lite" image, it does not matter much which version, and then write it to the stick in any of multiple different ways. I use "Etcher" in Linux, "Unetbootin" sounds like pretty much the same thing. Write image, copy the .exe to it, and then boot. /Tomas On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:20:34 +0200, Stephanos wrote: > > Dear Tomas > > Thanks for the reminder. > > Yes. After installation of 7 from DVD I did not make a user account, > nor set a password for the default admin account. The laptop is not > connected to the internet. I copied the bios file from my PC to the > laptop via the memory stick, which only had that file on it, no other > bootable image. I ran the file and it did not work. However, I tried > again as a result of your prompt and right clicked on the file and chose > run as admin. But no joy. > > Thanks > > Stephanos ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear Tomas Thanks for the reminder. Yes. After installation of 7 from DVD I did not make a user account, nor set a password for the default admin account. The laptop is not connected to the internet. I copied the bios file from my PC to the laptop via the memory stick, which only had that file on it, no other bootable image. I ran the file and it did not work. However, I tried again as a result of your prompt and right clicked on the file and chose run as admin. But no joy. Thanks Stephanos On 10/04/2021 12:13, Tomas By wrote: On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:08:58 +0200, Stephanos wrote: Wait to hear Did you try running it from Win 7 as administrator? Or just boot the stick and run the .EXE. I'm sure you can do it. /Tomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:08:58 +0200, Stephanos wrote: > Wait to hear Did you try running it from Win 7 as administrator? Or just boot the stick and run the .EXE. I'm sure you can do it. /Tomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear All OK, and thanks to all. I have now read the Dell website about updating from within Linux and noted the fact that I should use FreeDOS base 1.0 etc. I should just say this laptop is about 11 years old and the F12 boot option does not include updating the BIOS. What come as a surprise is that Dell say I can use this file in Windows and it does not work, and further that this fact does not surprise some. It surprised me. But that is experience and experience is what I want to gain. Although the upgrade will not give me Virtualisation, I have another reason for continuing with upgrading the BIOS. It provides better support for the battery. So it seems to me that although Windows 7 is on the laptop the issue remains, how to upgrade the BIOS using my 64 GB memory stick, FreeDOS and other things. I was put off by the fact that something special had to be done to make the BIOS upgrade file available after the boot to FreeDOS. I was comfortable with booting FreeDOS from a CD/DVD and just wanted to put the memory stick in, navigate to it and run the file, but that was not to be. We are, I suggest, still in business and that the objective has not changed, just the circumstances, the laptop has Windows 7 on it. I want to prepare the memory stick using my PC with Windows 10 on it, insert the stick into the laptop, boot the laptop and then obey any instructions. Is this feasible? I have already downloaded Unetbootin and I have the BIOS update file, the size of which is 1950KB, and the version of FreeDOS in file: fdbasecd.iso found here: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.0/ Wait to hear Stephanos On 10/04/2021 10:00, Mateusz Viste wrote: On 09/04/2021 23:50, Stephanos wrote: So I decided that it was slightly easier to put back Windows 7. I used gparted to wipe the HDD (...) I booted into the BIOS and the version was the same A02. I rebooted back into Windows 7 You should have done like Liam tells you from the beginning. He provides correct, detailed and verified steps. The operation is as simple as booting DOS from a removable drive (CD/floppy/USB) to run a single executable... Any other method is likely to either not work or damage your PC (esp. if you follow what Michael C. Robinson has been suggesting). Using Windows to update a BIOS firmware looks perhaps like an easy way out, but I wouldn't risk my PC with it myself, even if it's one of the methods suggested by the motherboard producer. Mateusz ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On 09/04/2021 23:50, Stephanos wrote: So I decided that it was slightly easier to put back Windows 7. I used gparted to wipe the HDD (...) I booted into the BIOS and the version was the same A02. I rebooted back into Windows 7 You should have done like Liam tells you from the beginning. He provides correct, detailed and verified steps. The operation is as simple as booting DOS from a removable drive (CD/floppy/USB) to run a single executable... Any other method is likely to either not work or damage your PC (esp. if you follow what Michael C. Robinson has been suggesting). Using Windows to update a BIOS firmware looks perhaps like an easy way out, but I wouldn't risk my PC with it myself, even if it's one of the methods suggested by the motherboard producer. Mateusz ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
> Full spec of laptop here: https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065 The CPU is listed as a Pentium T4500, which is a processor from 2010-ish using the Penryn-L microarchitecture. Intel processors in that market segment didn't have virtualization support features until 2012/2013-ish with the introduction of the Ivy Bridge microarchitecture. So the likely reason that your BIOS does not have virtualization support is because your hardware just doesn't support it. That doesn't mean you can't use virtualization at all, but it does mean that what virtualization software you can use and what operating systems you can run under virtualization will be limited. For example, my old 2009-era Core 2 Duo laptop can't run 64-bit operating systems under virtualization, but VirtualBox can handle 32-bit OSes just fine. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
> I have an unusual situation. My Dell laptop has Linux on it, I want to > use VirtuaBox (a tool I have used many times before on other laptops and > PCs) but the BIOS does not support Virtualisation. An upgrade to the > BIOS might so I want to upgrade the BIOS. Dell supply the BIOS upgrade > in the form of an .EXE file. If I had Windows on the laptop I could > just execute the file and follow instructions, says Dell. If it's a Dell laptop, have you tried following Dell's instructions for updating the BIOS under Linux? They cover newer machines that let you update from within Linux itself, as well as older machines that require a FreeDOS boot disk. https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-au/000131486/update-the-dell-bios-in-a-linux-or-ubuntu-environment However for most of their machines (as per their instructions) the easiest way is to copy the BIOS .EXE file onto a USB disk, leave the USB stick inserted, reboot the machine, press F12 at the Dell logo and select the menu option to update the BIOS. This way you don't need any special programs or operating systems and the whole process only takes a few minutes. I have done it a number of times on Dell machines over the last 10 years and it works very smoothly. On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 21:37:15 +0200 tom ehlert wrote: > It is safe but will not solve your problem. The BIOS updater .EXE is a > Windows program, and will only run on Windows. Actually most of Dell's updates are internally ZIP files or similar, so if you want to extract the BIOS files you just unzip them as if they are a zip file. Most manufacturers do this so that their in-BIOS update can easily extract the actual image to flash without needing to run the .exe itself. But you only need to do this if you want to manually flash the file from within Linux via the command line - the BIOS-based updating program is smart enough to do this extraction itself. > >> get a copy of RUFUS for Linux. > > There is no such thing. > > https://www.how2shout.com/tools/rufus-for-linux-not-available-use-these-best-alternatives.html > > > > Sorry, I had assumed this. But for some reasons I'm a Windows person. > > Is there a reason why no such almost trivial thing exists? > both for windows and linux, less then 500 MB? Yes, because copying the data onto the device is only 20% of the application. The majority of it is dealing with the OS interface to the hardware which is 100% different between Windows and Linux, so you would need two entirely separate applications anyway, even if they were written by the same person and called the same name. You can't share much code between the two programs which is why it's not trivial and nobody has done it, but they have created entirely separate applications with the same functionality, like UNetbootin. Cheers, Adam. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
> Is there a reason why no such almost trivial thing exists? both for windows and linux, less then 500 MB? Two reasons: 1) Because a standard system utility for disk imaging exists on Linux (or any other Unix-like, for that matter), which has been around since before Linux, or even DOS was around: dd 2) Because the interfaces that Windows and Unix provide to applications for raw disk access are different, so equivalent disk imaging programs will basically share no code, so few if any such programs on either system have had their developers bother to release a version for the other platform. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:50:53 +0200, Stephanos wrote: > So I decided that it was slightly easier to put back Windows 7. > [...] I copied the BIOS update version A05 file onto the HDD. > I executed it with a double click. I got the usual messages about > closing all other programmes. I clicked OK. Nothing happened. Permissions? Were you administrator? Try "run as administrator". (But it is better to use DOS.) /Tomas ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Now that we have clarified that the BIOS update tool can be used with either Windows or DOS... >> get a copy of RUFUS for Linux. > https://www.how2shout.com/tools/rufus-for-linux-not-available-use-these-best-alternatives.html Those tools are mostly for making bootable USB sticks from ISO images. ISO images are for making bootable CD or DVD, which explains why it helps to have extra tools to make ISO boot from USB sticks in case the BIOS does not detect what you are trying to do and helps you booting it anyway. However, the FreeDOS diskimage for bootable USB sticks is already MEANT for USB sticks, so you can avoid the hassle. As explained, you can just use "dd" to copy the raw image to the raw stick. I guess there also are other tools to do that using the mouse and some nice menus. If you are not experienced with dd, you can look up some tutorial about copying diskimages to USB sticks with it. Using dd the wrong way - as with all disk tools - could result in overwriting the wrong disk instead of your USB stick so you have to be a bit more careful when using dd. After you do that, the stick will contain one 32 MB FAT16 partition and bootable MBR and bootable DOS boot sector etc. to make everything boot FreeDOS once you boot from the stick. The only caveat is that the 32 MB are already full with FreeDOS stuff, but as soon as you open the stick again in Linux, you can simply use your file manager to throw 4DOS.ZIP away and instead add your BIOS file and BIOS update tool instead. Alternatively, you can use user friendly graphical tools such as GPARTED to make the partition larger (because your still will most likely be more than 32 MB) as long as you keep it as FAT16. Then again you will have space to add your BIOS file and BIOS update tool. When you boot from the stick, you can abort the option to install DOS to harddisk (of course) and instead run the BIOS update tool at your normal DOS prompt. I have no idea why your attempt to use Windows 7 to update the BIOS has failed, but I would say there are fewer unknown variables involved when you use DOS and not Windows to update your BIOS version. And I have no idea at all why you mention VirtualBox or VMware in context of your attempt to update your BIOS please explain that! Now that you have overwritten your Linux with Windows anyway, you could actually use the FreeDOS USB stick to install FreeDOS to harddisk. Then, copy the BIOS update and update tool to your DOS installation on harddisk: That is actually even more foolproof than running the tool on USB, because it will not depend on how well-behaved your BIOS is for USB access. You can just boot DOS from harddisk and do the BIOS update in a really classic DOS environment. I assume you do know how to run DOS apps? Simply type the name of the file you want to run and hit enter. There will be some documentation about the update tool as well, I assume. For example you may have to type something like NAMEOFTHETOOL NAMEOFTHEUPDATE instead of just NAMEOFTHETOOL. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Liam, >> it's not. I know. but it's a file format that can transport both a DOS >> and Windows executable in the same file. > This is not correct. In fact this tech was possible before Windows 3.0 > even launched; it was called a "family app" or "family mode". probabaly it's a bit of hair splitting. lets settle it at this. >> get a copy of RUFUS for Linux. > There is no such thing. > https://www.how2shout.com/tools/rufus-for-linux-not-available-use-these-best-alternatives.html Sorry, I had assumed this. But for some reasons I'm a Windows person. Is there a reason why no such almost trivial thing exists? both for windows and linux, less then 500 MB? it's basically FORMAT U:// linux knows how to format FAT32 SYS U: // drop boot sector with "KERNEL.SYS" and adress 0x60 copy kernel.sys U: copy command.com U: copy himem.sys u: echo>config.sys DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS echo>>config.sys DOS=HIGH,UMB (and admittely a bit more, but not much) wow. 20 years into FreeDOS evolution. I'm quite impressed ;< ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear All Thank you all for the contributions. I think we have reached the end. First let me mention that the BIOS version mentioned in the BIOS is A02. The later version is A05 and found here. https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/product-support/servicetag/0-YXhUR091TFhQWVdkR0VXeUY0cTREQT090/drivers This is the version I downloaded. It is ten years after A02. I managed to put ReactOS onto my memory stick. I did this as an experiment unconcerned with the later issue of how to execute the BIOS upgrade file. It did not boot. It got stuck at around the same stage as the boot from the DVD. So I decided that it was slightly easier to put back Windows 7. I used gparted to wipe the HDD I installed Windows 7, the original OS that was on the laptop when it was purchased, all those years ago. I copied the BIOS update version A05 file onto the HDD. I executed it with a double click I got the usual messages about closing all other programmes I clicked OK Nothing happened. I waited patiently for a few minutes. I have done BIOS upgrades in the past. I expected to see something happen. There was no screen going blank, no reboots, nothing. I booted into the BIOS and the version was the same A02. I rebooted back into Windows 7 Well, I am at at a loss. Assuming that is the end of the matter my next option is to reinstall Kubuntu and see if VMware works where VirtualBox did not. Along the way I have learned about the tools that allow you to take a file out of a compressed file, edit it and put it back. So I got something out of this. This is a superb work horse of a laptop, silent, robust, fast and very reliable. It will serve me well for years to come and with Linux/WINE and perhaps VMWare I am not at a loss for compatibility with my favourite Windows applications. Thanks again everyone Best wishes Stephanos On 09/04/2021 22:12, Liam Proven wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 21:41, tom ehlert wrote: It is safe but will not solve your problem. The BIOS updater .EXE is a Windows program, and will only run on Windows. Tom, do not guess. Check, be sure, before you post. Here is the BIOS update: https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=r281635=rt Note what it says: « This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. The Universal (Windows/MS DOS) format can be used to install from any Windows or MS DOS environment. » EXE is the file format for Windows (and OS/2) as well as DOS, you know. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 23:36, tom ehlert wrote: > it's not. I know. but it's a file format that can transport both a DOS > and Windows executable in the same file. This is not correct. In fact this tech was possible before Windows 3.0 even launched; it was called a "family app" or "family mode". Read about it here: https://www.landley.net/history/mirror/os2/history/os213/index.html It is also possible for Windows binaries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.exe#Windows > get a copy of RUFUS for Linux. There is no such thing. https://www.how2shout.com/tools/rufus-for-linux-not-available-use-these-best-alternatives.html -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:42, Stephanos wrote: > 1) I have WINE on my laptop and run several MS applications. Is it safe > to treat the BIOS upgrade file as an application and run it in WINE? OMG *no!* Do not even try. It is _extremely_ unlikely to work, but if it does, it is extremely likely to trash your computer. A BIOS update needs low-level hardware access to write new data to a very specific storage chip on your motherboard. Any tiny glitch in timing or compatibility, the write fails, and your computer will never work again. Do not even _consider_ using any other OS than the one specified by the manufacturer. An emulator on an alien OS, or a "fake" Windows like ReactOS, is suicidal. > 2) I could install DOS Box, which is new to me, I have the same > question, is it safe? Yes but it can't flash BIOSes -- it contains a BIOS emulator -- and it can't write USB sticks. It was another ludicrous suggestion. Please stop listening to this dangerous advice. > 3) Is running a version of Windows, 7 perhaps, in VMWare, and then > executing the BIOS upgrade file feasible and safe. NO! No emulators, no clones, no VMs. Use bare naked DOS on the bare metal. > These 3 are appealing options if they are feasible and safe? They are not appealing, not feasible, and. not safe. They are suggestions from someone who does not understand how this stuff works but does not _know_ that they don't understand. You would not try to change a tyre on your car while rolling down the motorway at 70mph, and if you did, you would die. Same with trying to reflash firmware under emulators under a multitasking OS. It is just as dangerous and just as foolhardy, but poor Michael here doesn't know that so he is telling you to wedge a shoe on the accelerator and climb out the window. *DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM.* Just get Unetbootin and use that. It is very easy. https://unetbootin.github.io/ -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Liam, >> It is safe but will not solve your problem. The BIOS updater .EXE is a >> Windows program, and will only run on Windows. > Tom, do not guess. Check, be sure, before you post. > Here is the BIOS update: > https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=r281635=rt > Note what it says: > « > This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. The Universal > (Windows/MS DOS) format can be used to install from any Windows or MS > DOS environment. > » Yep. Sorry. actually I *checked this out*. But by assuming that the art of dual binaries (for win32 and DOS) was never really popular, I somehow stopped reading after 'Windows'. still better then this only IDE will work bullshit ;) > EXE is the file format for Windows (and OS/2) as well as DOS, you know. it's not. I know. but it's a file format that can transport both a DOS and Windows executable in the same file. so for Stephanos: get a copy of RUFUS for Linux. this will make a bootable FreeDos stick. add the BIOS updater to this stick. Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:39, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: > > Some version of Windows is what Dell expects him to have to update his BIOS, > that's where that came in. No, it doesn't, and you are wrong. PLEASE stop giving ill-informed, bad and dangerous advice. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 17:06, Eric Auer wrote: > > Hi! I do not understand where Windows and ReactOS are > getting into the equation here. If you have Linux, you > can search in your software center whether you find an > app to install BIOS updates. The `fwupgmgr` tool does exist, but I find it does not support much hardware and has severe restrictions. For instance on my work Dell Latitude E7270, it cannot update the firmware because Linux was installed in "legacy" mode, i.e. BIOS-compatible; `fwudmgr` only works in UEFI mode. So it is no help to me. > If you have some DOS tool > for that, you should run DOS for the tool, not Windows. Dell's page says it's DOS. I believe the people who wrote the tool, don't you? > Some BIOS even are > able to install updates from files on USB sticks etc. Yes, mine can. But I have to put it on a FAT USB key anyway, so first time, I used DOS. Once I had updated it, later, a newer update could be read direct from USB. But I think this machine is too old. > http://freedos.org/download/ explicitly offers DIFFERENT > downloads for CD/DVD and for USB. Obviously it is easier > to use the USB version if you want to run DOS from USB. You say that, but then you proceed to give complicated steps for writing a small image and then deleting part of its contents to make room. That doesn't sound simple to me. I wrote the FreeDOS 1.0 ISO to an old 1GB USB key and I had about 0.99 GB free. ;-) Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Remember the KISS Principle! -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 15:31, Stephanos wrote: > > I have used ReactOS in a virtual environment. To attempt to use an unfinished reverse-engineered clone of Windows to install a firmware upgrade is tantamount to suicide. You are positively asking for it to go wrong and corrupt your BIOS chip, turning your laptop into a brick. Do not even _try_ it. Michael was insane to even suggest it. > As a best guess would putting ReactOS onto a memory stick overcome this > problem? NO! Please do not try this unless you want to buy a new computer. What I have described is 100% safe, it will work, and you will be fine. It is also easy and straightforward. What Michael is advocating is difficult, extremely unlikely to work and probably dangerous. On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 15:56, Stephanos wrote: > 1) the BIOS upgrade file size is 1950KB Doesn't matter, but you can't fit that on a floppy anyway. > 2) I have an external floppy drive but might not have floppies, I will > search You don't need them. > 3) I have an external USB CD/DVD reader/writer, that usually needs both > of its 2 USB cables to power it when burning You don't need that either. I have _done_ what I am describing, within this year so far, on my work Dell laptop. I am *telling* you it works, unlike other people in this thread who are guessing based on no evidence. > 4) There is some sort of 32/64 bit issue with this laptop I have never > understood. The version of Kubuntu 18.04 is 64 bit. When I download an > installation file for another programme, one that says it does 32 and > 64, the output to screen says that the 32 bit version is being installed. It depends on the submodel; there seem to be 3, from the manual: https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_laptop/esuprt_inspiron_laptop/inspiron-15-n5030_setup%20guide_en-us.pdf If you have a Pentium Dual Core, that's a poor processor. The other models look OK. I think it's just an early 64-bit machine. It should be fine. > 5) I do not have zip or LS120 drives No need. > Just seen Tom's contribution. Does the file size support that theory. Not really, no. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 21:41, tom ehlert wrote: > It is safe but will not solve your problem. The BIOS updater .EXE is a > Windows program, and will only run on Windows. Tom, do not guess. Check, be sure, before you post. Here is the BIOS update: https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-uk/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=r281635=rt Note what it says: « This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. The Universal (Windows/MS DOS) format can be used to install from any Windows or MS DOS environment. » EXE is the file format for Windows (and OS/2) as well as DOS, you know. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hallo Herr Eric Auer, am Freitag, 9. April 2021 um 18:04 schrieben Sie: > Hi Stephanos, >> 1) I have WINE on my laptop and run several MS applications. Is it safe >> to treat the BIOS upgrade file as an application and run it in WINE? > That will not help. Wine can run Windows apps, but you want to update > the BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a Wine window on Linux. >> 2) I could install DOS Box, which is new to me, I have the same >> question, is it safe? > It is safe but will not solve your problem. You want to update the > BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a DOSBOX window on Linux. >> 3) Is running a version of Windows, 7 perhaps, in VMWare, and then >> executing the BIOS upgrade file feasible and safe. > It is safe but will not solve your problem. You want to update the > BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a simulated VMWare PC window. >> If I cannot do above and cannot get my head around burning images to >> memory stick, then I will revert to removing Kubuntu, installing Win 7, >> running the BIOS upgrade file, praying. > It would be a lot more complicated to install Windows on your entire > computer than to install FreeDOS on a little USB stick, no? It is safe but will not solve your problem. The BIOS updater .EXE is a Windows program, and will only run on Windows. ask a friend with a Windows 10 PC to run recoverydrive.exe this will create in a few seconds a bootable USB stick with some sort of reduced Windows and should run your updater.exe. Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi Stephanos, > 1) I have WINE on my laptop and run several MS applications. Is it safe > to treat the BIOS upgrade file as an application and run it in WINE? That will not help. Wine can run Windows apps, but you want to update the BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a Wine window on Linux. > 2) I could install DOS Box, which is new to me, I have the same > question, is it safe? It is safe but will not solve your problem. You want to update the BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a DOSBOX window on Linux. > 3) Is running a version of Windows, 7 perhaps, in VMWare, and then > executing the BIOS upgrade file feasible and safe. It is safe but will not solve your problem. You want to update the BIOS in your real hardware, not inside a simulated VMWare PC window. > If I cannot do above and cannot get my head around burning images to > memory stick, then I will revert to removing Kubuntu, installing Win 7, > running the BIOS upgrade file, praying. It would be a lot more complicated to install Windows on your entire computer than to install FreeDOS on a little USB stick, no? Also, your Kubuntu will probably get lost as side-effect and Windows 7 is very outdated, making you a target for all sorts of hacks and viruses. As mentioned, do I understand you correctly that you have BIOS update tools available for both DOS and Windows, but not yet for Linux? Then an interesting choice would be to use the DOS version because you can boot DOS from USB, which is harder for Windows. You could even make space for a DOS partition with gparted and, after that, boot DOS from USB or CD and install it to that partition: This has the advantage that harddisk access is more stable than USB access while doing BIOS maniplations. Also, you could first install Windows and then add Kubuntu to have both. Of course you should not boot Windows unless needed for tasks such as BIOS updates. By installing in that order, you can have both to choose from at each boot. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi Michael, so if I understand correctly, he has both DOS and Windows versions of the update tool. I would NOT recommend to run any of those in a virtual environment like DOSBOX and hope to have any effect on the actual hardware. So indeed, to use the DOS BIOS update tool, booting FreeDOS on the real hardware is a good idea. DOBBOX has nothing to do with it! > He should simply be able to do a: > format /s a: ; copy bios.img a: ; cp programmer.exe a: That will not work because he needs more space than what would fit on a floppy. See my previous mail about putting the FreeDOS USB installer on some USB stick. Then re-plug the stick and use your normal file manager to change any contents you like :-) Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear Christopher Thanks. I am still absorbing the information from the others but here are a few additional questions 1) I have WINE on my laptop and run several MS applications. Is it safe to treat the BIOS upgrade file as an application and run it in WINE? 2) I could install DOS Box, which is new to me, I have the same question, is it safe? 3) Is running a version of Windows, 7 perhaps, in VMWare, and then executing the BIOS upgrade file feasible and safe. These 3 are appealing options if they are feasible and safe? If I cannot do above and cannot get my head around burning images to memory stick, then I will revert to removing Kubuntu, installing Win 7, running the BIOS upgrade file, praying. Wait to hear Stephanos On 09/04/2021 16:09, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: I would definitely try booting the ReactOS Live image a flash drive instead of a DVD. Longer term, you may want to install vmware player, free by the way, and grab the vmware image for it from the ReactOS web site. You and I both Stefano are overly dependent on Virtualbox which is not very usable these days and hardly the best option if you are trying to run any DOS based system. Oracle officially dropped support a while back for Windows 98SE and Windows Millenium. If all you want to run is some kind of DOS and you don't need Windows at all, please study DOSBOX and maybe look into WINE as well. I am going to do some research into Kubuntu now to try and help you better if you still need help getting the BIOS updated ;-) - From: "Stephanos" To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Sent: Friday April 9 2021 8:31:31AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive Blimey you two, I have been bombarded with lots of info and questions. Here goes: Full spec of laptop here: https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065 /> I have used ReactOS in a virtual environment. So I have downloaded the live CD ISO burnt it to a DVD and booted from it. It got far into the process but is stuck at "Installing devices". This looked promising. If it had booted all the way to desktop I was going to insert the memory stick onto which I had copied the BIOS upgrade programme. But alas, alack it is not to be. As a best guess would putting ReactOS onto a memory stick overcome this problem? Before I progress to Liam's options is there any other option you can think of. Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos On 09/04/2021 13:39, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: > Ditch the memory stick even if you can do this from inside DOSBOX > directly on top of Linux. It's worth a shot even if you have to swap in > MS-DOS 6.22 temporarily or Windows 98SE DOS prompt temporarily in > DOSBOX. If you can do this from within DOSBOX, you don't have to go get > any media you may not already have and you avoid burning a CD-R as well. > > Please ignore Liam, he obviously has an issue with me. If you need an > equivalent to Windows XP that is completely legal to use but not yet a > Beta, ReactOS is having memory management problems still, you may need a > ReactOS LiveCD ISO image and you probably do NOT need to burn the ISO to > a CD at all. You can use a USB flash drive or you can absolutely use a > CD-R, if you want to. The ReactOS web site has information on how to > put an image on either a CD-R or a Flash drive. > > You may need a program called Rufus for a Windows environment to put a > ReactOS live CD image on a flash drive. I also recommend > Deepburner1.exe if you need it, which is free as long as you don't use > the pro version. For that matter, use your favorite open source burning > program on the Linux system you have on that laptop and you definitely > want to use the burner in that laptop so that the CD reads in that laptop. > > <https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065%3Cbr> http://www.reactos.org <http://www.reactos.org> > > You probably don't need anything other than a FreeDOS 1.0 boot disk > image to get your update done, that much is true. I wouldn't go that > old and I wouldn't rule out doing this from DOSBOX directly on top of > Linux either. This old DELL has a real BIOS, so I would highly suspect > that you can update it from inside DOSBOX runing on top of Linux. I > recommend that you try FreeDOS 1.1 or FreeDOS 1.2 first in DOSBOX. > > As far as can you emulate on this latop without dedicated emulation > hardware, you can use VMWARE workstation version 5 or earlier. You > might be able to use QEMU. Maybe Bochs will work. Note that you should > be able to grab a VMWARE image from ReactOS.org saving you from needing > to have a VMWARE workstation license for an ancient version of VMWARE > which costs money. I
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Eric: Some version of Windows is what Dell expects him to have to update his BIOS, that's where that came in. ReactOS didn't fully start for him when he burned it to a DVD and tried to boot that DVD, but that isn't surprising considering that ReactOS has not even reached beta status yet. If he switched to a USB flash drive instead of a DVD he potentially could get ReactOS to start up fully, but it would make more sense for him to put a Lite FreeDOS 1.2 on there, his BIOS image, and the bios programming executable. I'm surprised that he can't use DOSBOX directly on Kubuntu so he doesn't have to worry about creating any removable media at all. He has a laptop that has a true BIOS, so I would think that DOSBOX would allow him to run the BIOS update program and reprogram it trivially. It would be safer of course for him to have a usb flash drive set up and boot from it to do this. I hope he doesn't make any major mistakes struggling to update his BIOS, backups are key when you are trying to do this and having trouble. Would it be easier via DOSBOX to format a USB flash drive so it can boot freedos complete with the BIOS image and the BIOS programmer? I'm thinking, get poor Stephano away from needing to use dd and worry about isos and all that jazz... He should simply be able to do a: format /s a: ; copy bios.img a: ; cp programmer.exe a: Of course, bios.img and programmer.exe need to replaced with the actual file names. The complexity is hidden, you must set up DOSBOX correctly before it becomes this easy. -From: "Eric Auer" To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Sent: Friday April 9 2021 10:06:50AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive Hi! I do not understand where Windows and ReactOS are getting into the equation here. If you have Linux, you can search in your software center whether you find an app to install BIOS updates. If you have some DOS tool for that, you should run DOS for the tool, not Windows. As your update is more than what fits on a floppy, you can check whether the actual update is smaller. Your file could be some sort of archive. Some BIOS even are able to install updates from files on USB sticks etc. when you find the right menu item. Read the manual :-) http://freedos.org/download/ [1] explicitly offers DIFFERENT downloads for CD/DVD and for USB. Obviously it is easier to use the USB version if you want to run DOS from USB. The "Lite" FreeDOS 1.2 for USB contains an IMG file which you can simply "dd if=FD12LITE.img of=/dev/yourusbstick" (yourusbstick = the device name of the stick) which is unfortunately not explained in the README.md text file. According to the vmdk file in the download, the image has 62 x 16 x 63 DBB geometry at 512 byte per sector: 32 MB decimal or 30.5 MB in powers of 2, at 503 x 2 x 63 CHS. As the image starts with a partition table, you do not use it as partition image, but install it on the whole USB stick, overwriting any existing contents. The FAT16 partition on the stick (note that not all sticks can be booted at all!) has only 112 kB free. You may use gparted to resize it (but keep it FAT16, or it will not boot) or simply delete some files you do not need, for example /FDSETUP/PACKAGES/UTIL/4DOS.ZIP which frees up 4 MB for your BIOS update files and tools :-) You could also take the SOURCE/FREECOM/SOURCES.ZIP out of the COMMAND.ZIP in /FDSETUP/PACKAGES/BASE/ to save more than 4 MB again. *I think it would be better if the USB installer would* *use a much larger image padded with 96 MB empty space* It is very hard to find USB sticks smaller than 128 MB today and it makes life a lot easier if people can add things to the installer without having to resize it :-) ZIP download size will still be only 30 MB nevertheless. In any case, after you install the USB installer image to your USB stick of any size, it will initially look as if you have a 32 MB stick and you can delete 4DOS to make some space for your BIOS update tools and files. You do not need gparted for that and you do not need external floppy drives, CD drives or DVD drives either. Your 32/64 bit issue seems harmless: Your 64 bit Linux still supports 32 bit apps. You can use either style. Regards, Eric PS: Note that USB 1 is horribly slow, so you will need some patience. Even if you have USB 2 ports, your BIOS may use USB 1 access mode when you boot from USB stick. In that case, CD/DVD would be faster, but you need other tools to change the contents of ISO before burning them. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user /> Links: -- [1] http://freedos.org/download/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourc
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
I would definitely try booting the ReactOS Live image a flash drive instead of a DVD. Longer term, you may want to install vmware player, free by the way, and grab the vmware image for it from the ReactOS web site. You and I both Stefano are overly dependent on Virtualbox which is not very usable these days and hardly the best option if you are trying to run any DOS based system. Oracle officially dropped support a while back for Windows 98SE and Windows Millenium. If all you want to run is some kind of DOS and you don't need Windows at all, please study DOSBOX and maybe look into WINE as well. I am going to do some research into Kubuntu now to try and help you better if you still need help getting the BIOS updated ;-) -From: "Stephanos" To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Sent: Friday April 9 2021 8:31:31AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive Blimey you two, I have been bombarded with lots of info and questions. Here goes: Full spec of laptop here: https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065 /> I have used ReactOS in a virtual environment. So I have downloaded the live CD ISO burnt it to a DVD and booted from it. It got far into the process but is stuck at "Installing devices". This looked promising. If it had booted all the way to desktop I was going to insert the memory stick onto which I had copied the BIOS upgrade programme. But alas, alack it is not to be. As a best guess would putting ReactOS onto a memory stick overcome this problem? Before I progress to Liam's options is there any other option you can think of. Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos On 09/04/2021 13:39, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: > Ditch the memory stick even if you can do this from inside DOSBOX > directly on top of Linux. It's worth a shot even if you have to swap in > MS-DOS 6.22 temporarily or Windows 98SE DOS prompt temporarily in > DOSBOX. If you can do this from within DOSBOX, you don't have to go get > any media you may not already have and you avoid burning a CD-R as well. > > Please ignore Liam, he obviously has an issue with me. If you need an > equivalent to Windows XP that is completely legal to use but not yet a > Beta, ReactOS is having memory management problems still, you may need a > ReactOS LiveCD ISO image and you probably do NOT need to burn the ISO to > a CD at all. You can use a USB flash drive or you can absolutely use a > CD-R, if you want to. The ReactOS web site has information on how to > put an image on either a CD-R or a Flash drive. > > You may need a program called Rufus for a Windows environment to put a > ReactOS live CD image on a flash drive. I also recommend > Deepburner1.exe if you need it, which is free as long as you don't use > the pro version. For that matter, use your favorite open source burning > program on the Linux system you have on that laptop and you definitely > want to use the burner in that laptop so that the CD reads in that laptop. > > http://www.reactos.org [1] > > You probably don't need anything other than a FreeDOS 1.0 boot disk > image to get your update done, that much is true. I wouldn't go that > old and I wouldn't rule out doing this from DOSBOX directly on top of > Linux either. This old DELL has a real BIOS, so I would highly suspect > that you can update it from inside DOSBOX runing on top of Linux. I > recommend that you try FreeDOS 1.1 or FreeDOS 1.2 first in DOSBOX. > > As far as can you emulate on this latop without dedicated emulation > hardware, you can use VMWARE workstation version 5 or earlier. You > might be able to use QEMU. Maybe Bochs will work. Note that you should > be able to grab a VMWARE image from ReactOS.org saving you from needing > to have a VMWARE workstation license for an ancient version of VMWARE > which costs money. I am overly dependent on VirtualBox myself. > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user /> > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user /> Links: -- [1] http://www.reactos.org ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Got it, some end of the 32 bit era early 64 bit era laptop is what you have then. Interesting. Kubuntu 18.04, that is very current. It's okay if you don't have Zip or LS120 handy, I wouldn't go get one. So you have an external and internal CD burner that works, and I imagine you have some media as well. I would burn a FreeDOS 1.3 live image and add the bios image and the program to write it with as well to it if you can edit the iso prior to burning it. Possibly put the programmer and the bios image you want on a CD-R and not worry about that CD being bootable. Burn another CD-R with the FreeDOS 1.3 RC3 live image. You can obviously look at going older than 1.3 too. Even 1.0 will probably be sufficient. The advantage since you have CD-R's of not trying to use a flash drive is that FreeDOS doesn't support USB anything terribly well yet. You may be able to put the FreeDOS boot image on a flash drive trivially since you really don't care about access if the image and the programmer are on a CD where you have an internal one that FreeDOS hopefully supports. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Hi! I do not understand where Windows and ReactOS are getting into the equation here. If you have Linux, you can search in your software center whether you find an app to install BIOS updates. If you have some DOS tool for that, you should run DOS for the tool, not Windows. As your update is more than what fits on a floppy, you can check whether the actual update is smaller. Your file could be some sort of archive. Some BIOS even are able to install updates from files on USB sticks etc. when you find the right menu item. Read the manual :-) http://freedos.org/download/ explicitly offers DIFFERENT downloads for CD/DVD and for USB. Obviously it is easier to use the USB version if you want to run DOS from USB. The "Lite" FreeDOS 1.2 for USB contains an IMG file which you can simply "dd if=FD12LITE.img of=/dev/yourusbstick" (yourusbstick = the device name of the stick) which is unfortunately not explained in the README.md text file. According to the vmdk file in the download, the image has 62 x 16 x 63 DBB geometry at 512 byte per sector: 32 MB decimal or 30.5 MB in powers of 2, at 503 x 2 x 63 CHS. As the image starts with a partition table, you do not use it as partition image, but install it on the whole USB stick, overwriting any existing contents. The FAT16 partition on the stick (note that not all sticks can be booted at all!) has only 112 kB free. You may use gparted to resize it (but keep it FAT16, or it will not boot) or simply delete some files you do not need, for example /FDSETUP/PACKAGES/UTIL/4DOS.ZIP which frees up 4 MB for your BIOS update files and tools :-) You could also take the SOURCE/FREECOM/SOURCES.ZIP out of the COMMAND.ZIP in /FDSETUP/PACKAGES/BASE/ to save more than 4 MB again. *I think it would be better if the USB installer would* *use a much larger image padded with 96 MB empty space* It is very hard to find USB sticks smaller than 128 MB today and it makes life a lot easier if people can add things to the installer without having to resize it :-) ZIP download size will still be only 30 MB nevertheless. In any case, after you install the USB installer image to your USB stick of any size, it will initially look as if you have a 32 MB stick and you can delete 4DOS to make some space for your BIOS update tools and files. You do not need gparted for that and you do not need external floppy drives, CD drives or DVD drives either. Your 32/64 bit issue seems harmless: Your 64 bit Linux still supports 32 bit apps. You can use either style. Regards, Eric PS: Note that USB 1 is horribly slow, so you will need some patience. Even if you have USB 2 ports, your BIOS may use USB 1 access mode when you boot from USB stick. In that case, CD/DVD would be faster, but you need other tools to change the contents of ISO before burning them. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear both again I should also say that 1) the BIOS upgrade file size is 1950KB 2) I have an external floppy drive but might not have floppies, I will search 3) I have an external USB CD/DVD reader/writer, that usually needs both of its 2 USB cables to power it when burning 4) There is some sort of 32/64 bit issue with this laptop I have never understood. The version of Kubuntu 18.04 is 64 bit. When I download an installation file for another programme, one that says it does 32 and 64, the output to screen says that the 32 bit version is being installed. 5) I do not have zip or LS120 drives Just seen Tom's contribution. Does the file size support that theory. Even without the file size supporting the theory, it is plausible. Thanks again Stephanos On 09/04/2021 14:07, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: A couple of questions, what model DELL laptop are you trying to update the BIOS on? What level of Windows or even MSDOS for that matter was the laptop originally designed to run? Clearly, this laptop has some USB so I'm guessing those are probably two USB 1.1 ports and I'm thinking the laptop is some kind of Pentium I. Do you by chance have one of those ancient Zip100 drives and a readable Zip 50 or Zip 100 disk? You would need the USB and not the parallel port model most likely and I know for a fact that if you use the guest.exe program in any DOS environment including FreeDOS 1.3 that you can get what you need done using any external zip drive even if it's a USB one. If you have any external LS120 drive and at least one good 1.44MB floppy disk or LS120 disk that will write, you can use that as well and I'd say IMHO that LS120 drives are far better to have around than Zip drives because they can read and write 1.44MB high density floppies whereas Zip drives can't read any standard floppy and a Zip 750 cannot work with Zip 50, 100, or 250 disks except if you are lucky you might be able to read them. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Blimey you two, I have been bombarded with lots of info and questions. Here goes: Full spec of laptop here: https://www.comx-computers.co.za/laptop-specification-sheet.php?laptop=40065 I have used ReactOS in a virtual environment. So I have downloaded the live CD ISO burnt it to a DVD and booted from it. It got far into the process but is stuck at "Installing devices". This looked promising. If it had booted all the way to desktop I was going to insert the memory stick onto which I had copied the BIOS upgrade programme. But alas, alack it is not to be. As a best guess would putting ReactOS onto a memory stick overcome this problem? Before I progress to Liam's options is there any other option you can think of. Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos On 09/04/2021 13:39, Michael Christopher Robinson wrote: Ditch the memory stick even if you can do this from inside DOSBOX directly on top of Linux. It's worth a shot even if you have to swap in MS-DOS 6.22 temporarily or Windows 98SE DOS prompt temporarily in DOSBOX. If you can do this from within DOSBOX, you don't have to go get any media you may not already have and you avoid burning a CD-R as well. Please ignore Liam, he obviously has an issue with me. If you need an equivalent to Windows XP that is completely legal to use but not yet a Beta, ReactOS is having memory management problems still, you may need a ReactOS LiveCD ISO image and you probably do NOT need to burn the ISO to a CD at all. You can use a USB flash drive or you can absolutely use a CD-R, if you want to. The ReactOS web site has information on how to put an image on either a CD-R or a Flash drive. You may need a program called Rufus for a Windows environment to put a ReactOS live CD image on a flash drive. I also recommend Deepburner1.exe if you need it, which is free as long as you don't use the pro version. For that matter, use your favorite open source burning program on the Linux system you have on that laptop and you definitely want to use the burner in that laptop so that the CD reads in that laptop. http://www.reactos.org You probably don't need anything other than a FreeDOS 1.0 boot disk image to get your update done, that much is true. I wouldn't go that old and I wouldn't rule out doing this from DOSBOX directly on top of Linux either. This old DELL has a real BIOS, so I would highly suspect that you can update it from inside DOSBOX runing on top of Linux. I recommend that you try FreeDOS 1.1 or FreeDOS 1.2 first in DOSBOX. As far as can you emulate on this latop without dedicated emulation hardware, you can use VMWARE workstation version 5 or earlier. You might be able to use QEMU. Maybe Bochs will work. Note that you should be able to grab a VMWARE image from ReactOS.org saving you from needing to have a VMWARE workstation license for an ancient version of VMWARE which costs money. I am overly dependent on VirtualBox myself. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
A couple of questions, what model DELL laptop are you trying to update the BIOS on? What level of Windows or even MSDOS for that matter was the laptop originally designed to run? Clearly, this laptop has some USB so I'm guessing those are probably two USB 1.1 ports and I'm thinking the laptop is some kind of Pentium I. Do you by chance have one of those ancient Zip100 drives and a readable Zip 50 or Zip 100 disk? You would need the USB and not the parallel port model most likely and I know for a fact that if you use the guest.exe program in any DOS environment including FreeDOS 1.3 that you can get what you need done using any external zip drive even if it's a USB one. If you have any external LS120 drive and at least one good 1.44MB floppy disk or LS120 disk that will write, you can use that as well and I'd say IMHO that LS120 drives are far better to have around than Zip drives because they can read and write 1.44MB high density floppies whereas Zip drives can't read any standard floppy and a Zip 750 cannot work with Zip 50, 100, or 250 disks except if you are lucky you might be able to read them. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 14:31, Stephanos wrote: > > Dear Liam > > Thanks for that. A little more info please > 1) Which of the six options at the website > (https://www.freedos.org/download/) are you suggesting I download. I have used FreeDOS 1.0 for this in the past. All you need is to boot the computer, nothing else. You don't need to (and should definitely not) install anything. The downloads for 1.0 are here: https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.0/ Pick the smallest "base" ISO you can get. Alternatively the UNETBOOTIN USB-writing tool has a built-in option to make a FreeDOS 1.0 boot USB. I can't give exact instructions as all PCs are different, and you have not told us the exact model of yours, except that it's a Dell. If it does not default to booting from USB, usually, on most, pressing F12 immediately after it finishes its Power-On Self Test (POST) will let you choose a boot device. So, [1] Write FreeDOS 1.0 ISO to USB, e.g. using Rufus. [2] turn PC off [3] insert your FreeDOS bootable USB key [4] turn PC on [5] After any initial power-on messages appear, and it beeps, *immediately* press F12 [6] if a menu letting you choose boot device appears, pick the USB key [7] see if it works. If it boots FreeDOS, then reboot, remove the key, boot your normal OS as usual, copy the BIOS update onto the key in the normal way, reboot off the key again, and try running it. I advise you to ignore the suggestions from "Michael Christopher Robinson" which are incorrect and dangerous. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Ditch the memory stick even if you can do this from inside DOSBOX directly on top of Linux. It's worth a shot even if you have to swap in MS-DOS 6.22 temporarily or Windows 98SE DOS prompt temporarily in DOSBOX. If you can do this from within DOSBOX, you don't have to go get any media you may not already have and you avoid burning a CD-R as well. Please ignore Liam, he obviously has an issue with me. If you need an equivalent to Windows XP that is completely legal to use but not yet a Beta, ReactOS is having memory management problems still, you may need a ReactOS LiveCD ISO image and you probably do NOT need to burn the ISO to a CD at all. You can use a USB flash drive or you can absolutely use a CD-R, if you want to. The ReactOS web site has information on how to put an image on either a CD-R or a Flash drive. You may need a program called Rufus for a Windows environment to put a ReactOS live CD image on a flash drive. I also recommend Deepburner1.exe if you need it, which is free as long as you don't use the pro version. For that matter, use your favorite open source burning program on the Linux system you have on that laptop and you definitely want to use the burner in that laptop so that the CD reads in that laptop. http://www.reactos.org You probably don't need anything other than a FreeDOS 1.0 boot disk image to get your update done, that much is true. I wouldn't go that old and I wouldn't rule out doing this from DOSBOX directly on top of Linux either. This old DELL has a real BIOS, so I would highly suspect that you can update it from inside DOSBOX runing on top of Linux. I recommend that you try FreeDOS 1.1 or FreeDOS 1.2 first in DOSBOX. As far as can you emulate on this latop without dedicated emulation hardware, you can use VMWARE workstation version 5 or earlier. You might be able to use QEMU. Maybe Bochs will work. Note that you should be able to grab a VMWARE image from ReactOS.org saving you from needing to have a VMWARE workstation license for an ancient version of VMWARE which costs money. I am overly dependent on VirtualBox myself. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear Liam Thanks for that. A little more info please 1) Which of the six options at the website (https://www.freedos.org/download/) are you suggesting I download. It is not possible to relate "FreeDOS 1.0..." to any of them. 2) Regarding "Boot, use F5 or Shift to bypass CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT". I understand that after booting the first time I will shutdown and write my required BIOS upgrade file to the USB key then insert it and boot again. But I do not understand at what stage in the boot process I press F5 or Shift. 3) Also is it a case or both F5 and Shift will work or one of them will work but you do not know which? Thanks again and wait to hear Stephanos On 09/04/2021 12:35, Liam Proven wrote: On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 13:22, Stephanos wrote: 1) Download one of the ISO files Fine 2) Make a CD bootable What... why? 3) Write my BIOS upgrade file to the memory stick Then insert the CD into the laptop and a) boot the laptop into DOS b) Insert the memory stick and navigate to the memory stick (by trying all the drive letters possible: A:, B: C: D: etc) No, won't work. The FreeDOS 1.0 ISO is all you need. Write it to a USB key, not a CD. Then check it boots. If it books, copy the Dell BIOS upgrade onto the USB key. Boot, use F5 or Shift to bypass CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT completely, and run the update. No need for an optical disk at all. Don't waste it. No external drive needed either. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Is your laptop SATA based internally or EIDE based? If you are EIDE based, you are actually in great shape. All is not lost either if you aren't EIDE based. Can you get away with something like a ReactOS 0.4.13 live CD to sort of give you Windows long enough to run the EXE and upgrade your BIOS? Barring that, you might be able to use a USB floppy drive, though probably this isn't recommended over just using a USB thumb drive or an external CF card adapter through a USB port. Burning a CD-R is probably your best option here where a Linux system should work just fine for that. Has DELL ever considered supporting through the BIOS directly a way to read an image and update it without even introducing an OS on this old laptop? Most modern motherboards support OS'less updating of the firmware, there isn't BIOS anymore, but it sounds like your old Dell is old enough that it doesn't. The lack of virtualization capability suggests you might be running a 32 bit processor and possibly not even a multi core one, which sounds really cool honestly! I totally sense that Jim and others are under evaluating the value of older hardware and I am concerned that there isn't enough emphasis on dual tracking FreeDOS so that you can deploy it equally well on an 8086, 286, or 386 processor as you can on an AMD Athlon FX Black 8350 8 core processor or an i5/i7/i9 processor for that matter. It's the motherboard and the lack of BIOS on it that gets people in trouble the most these days. That, and there isn't a solid open source hypervisor to make a modern PC look more ancient so that FreeDOS will trivially run on it. BIOS can be faked after all. Worst case scenario, it sounds like DELL is expecting you to be running Windows 2000 Professional at most where you can temporarily run that illegally without having to worry about activation. Just don't keep it around for very long and avoid networking it. I cannot provide a link to download Windows 2000 Professional here, but even Windows 98SE might work where you may just need a 98se boot disk which can be burned to a CD-R with your bios update program and the update added to it. Does the EXE file require Win16, Win32K, or something newer than that from Windows NT? If it requires MSDOS only, you don't need Windows at all where you should be able to illegally run MSDOS 6.22 long enough to get your laptop updates. I wonder if DOSBOX can be used to bypass the fact that you can't run FreeDOS natively on this laptop? Can BIOS updates be done from within DOSBOX running on top of Linux? -From: "Stephanos" To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Sent: Friday April 9 2021 6:22:06AM Subject: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive Dear All I have an unusual situation. My Dell laptop has Linux on it, I want to use VirtuaBox (a tool I have used many times before on other laptops and PCs) but the BIOS does not support Virtualisation. An upgrade to the BIOS might so I want to upgrade the BIOS. Dell supply the BIOS upgrade in the form of an .EXE file. If I had Windows on the laptop I could just execute the file and follow instructions, says Dell. The laptop does not have a floppy drive. It has two USB ports and an optical drive. Using my PC I am intending to do the following: 1) Download one of the ISO files 2) Make a CD bootable 3) Write my BIOS upgrade file to the memory stick Then insert the CD into the laptop and a) boot the laptop into DOS b) Insert the memory stick and navigate to the memory stick (by trying all the drive letters possible: A:, B: C: D: etc) c) Execute the BIOS upgrade file d) Pray I know how to use a burning programme to burn an ISO onto a disc and so make the disc bootable So, can it be done with one of those ISO files you have on your website, and if so, which one? Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos, London, UK ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user /> ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 13:22, Stephanos wrote: > 1) Download one of the ISO files Fine > 2) Make a CD bootable What... why? > 3) Write my BIOS upgrade file to the memory stick > Then insert the CD into the laptop and > a) boot the laptop into DOS > b) Insert the memory stick and navigate to the memory stick (by trying > all the drive letters possible: A:, B: C: D: etc) No, won't work. The FreeDOS 1.0 ISO is all you need. Write it to a USB key, not a CD. Then check it boots. If it books, copy the Dell BIOS upgrade onto the USB key. Boot, use F5 or Shift to bypass CONFIG.SYS/AUTOEXEC.BAT completely, and run the update. No need for an optical disk at all. Don't waste it. No external drive needed either. -- Liam Proven – Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk – gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven – Skype: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 – ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Using a USB stick and an optical drive
Dear All I have an unusual situation. My Dell laptop has Linux on it, I want to use VirtuaBox (a tool I have used many times before on other laptops and PCs) but the BIOS does not support Virtualisation. An upgrade to the BIOS might so I want to upgrade the BIOS. Dell supply the BIOS upgrade in the form of an .EXE file. If I had Windows on the laptop I could just execute the file and follow instructions, says Dell. The laptop does not have a floppy drive. It has two USB ports and an optical drive. Using my PC I am intending to do the following: 1) Download one of the ISO files 2) Make a CD bootable 3) Write my BIOS upgrade file to the memory stick Then insert the CD into the laptop and a) boot the laptop into DOS b) Insert the memory stick and navigate to the memory stick (by trying all the drive letters possible: A:, B: C: D: etc) c) Execute the BIOS upgrade file d) Pray I know how to use a burning programme to burn an ISO onto a disc and so make the disc bootable So, can it be done with one of those ISO files you have on your website, and if so, which one? Thanks and wait to hear Stephanos, London, UK ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
