Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
You know, I do wonder sometimes if these companies actually try to make their games accessible on purpose? Mortal kombat series is an example. It has sounds for every single move. the footsteps are even distinct when you move around the arena. And MK vs DC universe has even better and clearer sounds. The close up combat even has these musical notes that change in pitch when you connect with your opponent, and the test your might mini-game is also announced. You guys think this was done intentionally? Keep in mind that Ed boon, Co-creator and main programmer of the mk series was beaten at his own game by a blind gamer, so it does make you wonder. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member Sigh, yeah. Good point there. I offen wonder, then, how that game sound voyager came into being? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:02 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member They'd probably try to find something to get you for if they thought you were conflicting with their interests. Look at Thomas. He changed Montezumas Revenge to Montezuma's Return and some developer got on him just for the title. Thomas' game was nothing like theirs but they were able to get him because of the title. So you'd be putting your life in your own hands, so to speak, by doing what you propose. Nintendo, by all accounts, isn't much better about their copyrights than Lucas Arts. All of a sudden here comes this small time guy trying to make their game and call it his own? That's pretty much how they look at it. We blind folks are, I hate to say it, in the minority. To them it doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't cost all that much extra to make their games accessible. They figure they'd lose more money than they made. Besides, acommodating us would, in their minds, automatically tag them as an Accessibility company, whatever the heck that means. Look at Michelle Hinn from the Game Accessibility Special Interest Group. She and those like her have been lobbying the gaming industry for years without much success. And that's their response. They don't want to be known as an accessibility Company. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member You know, that really is quite sad. I bet a starwars audio game would be quite fun- and I personally thought, when monty beta came out, that the games were of great quality, that you'd be just the right guy to make them. Its too bad, though, that there aren't any racing games. If I could, I'd make an audiogame similar to wave race 64. Why? Because for me at least, it had great audio, that can stil compete today- great music, great effects, etc. It also had a good commintator- games like that should be more widely recognized, I think. I don't think there would be any licensing involved- since the game is basically obsolete- and the company isn't making money off of it, or am I wrong here? That's my main point- if I made a game similar to this, would I be conflicting with licensing or some such? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member Hi, Well, there is Jedi Quake maintained by Cara Quinn. It is basically quake with a Star Wars type theme to it. As for any outright Star Wars games for the blind there aren't any. I was working on one called Jedi Strike, but when I attempted to license the Star Wars copyrights via Lucas Licensing they flatly refused. Besides being very expensive Lucas Licensing only deals with one company at a time. For example, since Lucas Arts holds the exclusive copyright for Star Wars vidio games my company USA Games can't license the copyright, because Lucas Licensing says it would be a conflict of interest. I would be competing with their games, and never mind the fact my games for the blind wouldn't even
Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
Hi Bryan, Well, there are ways of working around the copyright issues, keeping in the legal boundries, but it is risky, and may not be practicle for a software developer. There are some fair use provisions in the U.S. copyright laws that state when, where, and how one may use copyrighted works legally. However, the problem is even though there are some fair use provisions they are hotly being contested by big corperations that want total and absolute control of their copyrights. For example, let us say I do want to go ahead with Jedi Strike and release a game with a Star wars theme. Under fair use provisions I must offer the game for free, it must be available for an educational purpose, I must acknowledge Lucas as the original copyright holder, and renounce any claim to a copyright to the work. If I except those provisions then I could legally release the game, but I can't make any money off of it. Even worse in order to clasify it as for an educational purpose the product might have to be open source, but doing that would force me to allow everyone to have the Genesis 3D source code. Since Genesis 3D is completely my creation I might have to give up my right to the Genesis 3D copyrights in order to meet legal fair use rights for Star Wars. This is the kind of catch 22 game developers have to face if they don't have legal permission directly from the copyright holders. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
Hi Yohandy, Well, anything is possible I guess, but my guess is these games are accessible through accident and not by design. Mainstream companies are aware of their customers desires for a more realistic audio environment, and they try to provide one. It just so happens what they are doing for everyone else works very well for us. Yohandy wrote: You know, I do wonder sometimes if these companies actually try to make their games accessible on purpose? Mortal kombat series is an example. It has sounds for every single move. the footsteps are even distinct when you move around the arena. And MK vs DC universe has even better and clearer sounds. The close up combat even has these musical notes that change in pitch when you connect with your opponent, and the test your might mini-game is also announced. You guys think this was done intentionally? Keep in mind that Ed boon, Co-creator and main programmer of the mk series was beaten at his own game by a blind gamer, so it does make you wonder. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
They'd probably try to find something to get you for if they thought you were conflicting with their interests. Look at Thomas. He changed Montezumas Revenge to Montezuma's Return and some developer got on him just for the title. Thomas' game was nothing like theirs but they were able to get him because of the title. So you'd be putting your life in your own hands, so to speak, by doing what you propose. Nintendo, by all accounts, isn't much better about their copyrights than Lucas Arts. All of a sudden here comes this small time guy trying to make their game and call it his own? That's pretty much how they look at it. We blind folks are, I hate to say it, in the minority. To them it doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't cost all that much extra to make their games accessible. They figure they'd lose more money than they made. Besides, acommodating us would, in their minds, automatically tag them as an Accessibility company, whatever the heck that means. Look at Michelle Hinn from the Game Accessibility Special Interest Group. She and those like her have been lobbying the gaming industry for years without much success. And that's their response. They don't want to be known as an accessibility Company. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member You know, that really is quite sad. I bet a starwars audio game would be quite fun- and I personally thought, when monty beta came out, that the games were of great quality, that you'd be just the right guy to make them. Its too bad, though, that there aren't any racing games. If I could, I'd make an audiogame similar to wave race 64. Why? Because for me at least, it had great audio, that can stil compete today- great music, great effects, etc. It also had a good commintator- games like that should be more widely recognized, I think. I don't think there would be any licensing involved- since the game is basically obsolete- and the company isn't making money off of it, or am I wrong here? That's my main point- if I made a game similar to this, would I be conflicting with licensing or some such? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member Hi, Well, there is Jedi Quake maintained by Cara Quinn. It is basically quake with a Star Wars type theme to it. As for any outright Star Wars games for the blind there aren't any. I was working on one called Jedi Strike, but when I attempted to license the Star Wars copyrights via Lucas Licensing they flatly refused. Besides being very expensive Lucas Licensing only deals with one company at a time. For example, since Lucas Arts holds the exclusive copyright for Star Wars vidio games my company USA Games can't license the copyright, because Lucas Licensing says it would be a conflict of interest. I would be competing with their games, and never mind the fact my games for the blind wouldn't even scratch their markets. Besides witch the couple thousand I would earn off of making said Star wars games wouldn't even pay for the royalties they wanted to legally license the Star Wars copyrights. Bottom line, what I learned is clearly Lucas Licensing has nothing in place for small time developers wanting to create a game using a Star Wars theme. It is clear all of their dealings are with companies with millions of dollars to spend, and thus will pay millions to Lucas in royalties. A guy expecting to make a few thousand isn't even worth their time of day unless I use their copyrights illegally, and then they can sue me for copyright infringement. It is a lose lose situation, and Lucas Licensing is a bunch of jerks if you ask me. I have thought about releasing the game as freeware under the creative commons license, but even that is no absolute protection. That may give them less of a reasont to sue, but they still can come after me with a cease and desist order that the courts would uphold stating I have to remove the content and destroy all source code, all known copies, etc. I'm not sure it is worth the trouble for a blind developer to risk that or not. Michael Amaro wrote: Any starwars type games? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be
Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
Sigh, yeah. Good point there. I offen wonder, then, how that game sound voyager came into being? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:02 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member They'd probably try to find something to get you for if they thought you were conflicting with their interests. Look at Thomas. He changed Montezumas Revenge to Montezuma's Return and some developer got on him just for the title. Thomas' game was nothing like theirs but they were able to get him because of the title. So you'd be putting your life in your own hands, so to speak, by doing what you propose. Nintendo, by all accounts, isn't much better about their copyrights than Lucas Arts. All of a sudden here comes this small time guy trying to make their game and call it his own? That's pretty much how they look at it. We blind folks are, I hate to say it, in the minority. To them it doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't cost all that much extra to make their games accessible. They figure they'd lose more money than they made. Besides, acommodating us would, in their minds, automatically tag them as an Accessibility company, whatever the heck that means. Look at Michelle Hinn from the Game Accessibility Special Interest Group. She and those like her have been lobbying the gaming industry for years without much success. And that's their response. They don't want to be known as an accessibility Company. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member You know, that really is quite sad. I bet a starwars audio game would be quite fun- and I personally thought, when monty beta came out, that the games were of great quality, that you'd be just the right guy to make them. Its too bad, though, that there aren't any racing games. If I could, I'd make an audiogame similar to wave race 64. Why? Because for me at least, it had great audio, that can stil compete today- great music, great effects, etc. It also had a good commintator- games like that should be more widely recognized, I think. I don't think there would be any licensing involved- since the game is basically obsolete- and the company isn't making money off of it, or am I wrong here? That's my main point- if I made a game similar to this, would I be conflicting with licensing or some such? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member Hi, Well, there is Jedi Quake maintained by Cara Quinn. It is basically quake with a Star Wars type theme to it. As for any outright Star Wars games for the blind there aren't any. I was working on one called Jedi Strike, but when I attempted to license the Star Wars copyrights via Lucas Licensing they flatly refused. Besides being very expensive Lucas Licensing only deals with one company at a time. For example, since Lucas Arts holds the exclusive copyright for Star Wars vidio games my company USA Games can't license the copyright, because Lucas Licensing says it would be a conflict of interest. I would be competing with their games, and never mind the fact my games for the blind wouldn't even scratch their markets. Besides witch the couple thousand I would earn off of making said Star wars games wouldn't even pay for the royalties they wanted to legally license the Star Wars copyrights. Bottom line, what I learned is clearly Lucas Licensing has nothing in place for small time developers wanting to create a game using a Star Wars theme. It is clear all of their dealings are with companies with millions of dollars to spend, and thus will pay millions to Lucas in royalties. A guy expecting to make a few thousand isn't even worth their time of day unless I use their copyrights illegally, and then they can sue me for copyright infringement. It is a lose lose situation, and Lucas Licensing is a bunch of jerks if you ask me. I have thought about releasing the game as freeware under the creative commons license, but even that is no absolute protection. That may give them less of a reasont
Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member
You're forgetting that that game wasn't made in the US. The Japanese are a bit more open-minded about things like that apparently. True, Soundvoyager, which I'm proud to say I own, wasn't designed with the blind in mind but it is certainly a step in the right direction. Apparently a lot of Japanese games are completely audio based to begin with. I can't name any off the top of my head but I remember talking with a game designer some years ago who was fascinated by the idea of blind friendly games. He mentioned at least one Japanese game that fit this category. But apparently the Japanese seem more open to playing games without relying so much on their eyes than Americans. True, when I spoke with the folks at Nintendo of America they did seem receptive to the idea of accessibility, but being receptive and actually doing anything about it are, as we all know, two very different things. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member Sigh, yeah. Good point there. I offen wonder, then, how that game sound voyager came into being? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:02 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Making games was Re: new member They'd probably try to find something to get you for if they thought you were conflicting with their interests. Look at Thomas. He changed Montezumas Revenge to Montezuma's Return and some developer got on him just for the title. Thomas' game was nothing like theirs but they were able to get him because of the title. So you'd be putting your life in your own hands, so to speak, by doing what you propose. Nintendo, by all accounts, isn't much better about their copyrights than Lucas Arts. All of a sudden here comes this small time guy trying to make their game and call it his own? That's pretty much how they look at it. We blind folks are, I hate to say it, in the minority. To them it doesn't matter that it probably wouldn't cost all that much extra to make their games accessible. They figure they'd lose more money than they made. Besides, acommodating us would, in their minds, automatically tag them as an Accessibility company, whatever the heck that means. Look at Michelle Hinn from the Game Accessibility Special Interest Group. She and those like her have been lobbying the gaming industry for years without much success. And that's their response. They don't want to be known as an accessibility Company. - Original Message - From: constantine (on laptop) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member You know, that really is quite sad. I bet a starwars audio game would be quite fun- and I personally thought, when monty beta came out, that the games were of great quality, that you'd be just the right guy to make them. Its too bad, though, that there aren't any racing games. If I could, I'd make an audiogame similar to wave race 64. Why? Because for me at least, it had great audio, that can stil compete today- great music, great effects, etc. It also had a good commintator- games like that should be more widely recognized, I think. I don't think there would be any licensing involved- since the game is basically obsolete- and the company isn't making money off of it, or am I wrong here? That's my main point- if I made a game similar to this, would I be conflicting with licensing or some such? contact details: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and others msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: the_conman283 system details: Hp pavillion dv5220CA notebook pc AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile Technology ML-37 2.0 GHZ, 1024 mb DDR ram, Fujitsu 100 gb 4500 RPM Hard Drive, connecsant AC-link audio - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] new member Hi, Well, there is Jedi Quake maintained by Cara Quinn. It is basically quake with a Star Wars type theme to it. As for any outright Star Wars games for the blind there aren't any. I was working on one called Jedi Strike, but when I attempted to license the Star Wars copyrights via Lucas Licensing they flatly refused. Besides being very expensive Lucas Licensing only deals with one company at a time. For example, since Lucas Arts holds the exclusive copyright
