Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
Apparently, though unproven, at 01:42 on Monday 06 September 2010, Grant Edwards did opine thusly: Yup, and 16x9 sucks -- it's just an excuse to ship smaller, lower-resolution displays labelled with bigger numbers. Complete ripoff. If you have 16:9 at 1280*720, then yes, it is going to suck. There is nothing inherently wrong with the aspect ratio, please desist from trying to make it so. Yes, there is an inherent problem: in order to get what I consider acceptable vertical size/resolution you have to buy something that's rediculously wide. Untrue. Vertical resolution depends only on the available dimension and the number of pixels-per-inch of your screen. How do you manage to take the position that screen height somehow depends on the machine width? Remember that we are talking regular sized notebooks here There are good reasons for it. It most easily fits the overall dimensions of the machine, you have a wide and not very deep keyboard plus space for a touchpad and palm rests. It's all approximately 16:9. No it's not. At least only on any of my laptops. I suppose you can tack on a useless numeric keypat to try to take up some of the extra horizontal space that's required in order to get a screen that's tall enough to be useful. I have a 16:9 in a regular sized notebook, a Dell M1530. There's no numpad. In fact the keyboard takes up less space horizontally than I'm used to. So please tell me again where this machine width thing comes from? I paid the extra to get 16:9 @ 1920x1200. Best thing I ever did laptop-wise - I can get two webpages side by side on the screen looking very natural. Did you know that 16:9 is the eye's natural aspect ratio? How do you explain the widespread popularity of portrait mode for printed material? Text is much easier to read in tall, narrow, columns. The more lines of code you can see at once when editing source code, the fewer the bugs. Both those have been experimentally verified. Tall narrow columns come from newsprint and the average person does not display only text on a screen. Even the example you cite - printed material - is incomplete, in that few folks have only one of them when working. The usual case is one book for reference, and at least one other work area. Which is why I mentioned two web sites side by side at a very acceptable size. Test it sometime with outstreched fingers. I still vastly prefer 4:3 for all of the work I do. I guess if you want to watch movies, and you don't mind hauling around a useless numeric keypad, 16:9 is nice. Once again, who mentioned a numpad? I didn't. You inserted that the bolster your argument, but I never put it there. Personally, I think you went cheap and bought a less-than-ideal screen based on price. I didn't make that error - I spent the extra bucks, sacrificed a few features here and there and went for the best on offer. I have full 1200 height (the same as I get out of my 21 CRT monitor) which instantly renders all your arguments redundant. So tell me again why there is something wrong with 16:9? I think you have it conflated with 800 height which indeed is pathetic. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, but /dev/cdrom is not created at boot time and k3b returns No optical drive found. K3b did not find any optical device in your system. Solution : Make sure HAL daemon is running, it is used by K3b for finding devices. Well, hald IS running on my hardened amd64 system and /etc/udev/rules.d contains 70-persistent-cd.rules. Where should I look now to fix the problem ? -- ~adj~
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
On 09/06/10 18:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote:
For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev:
I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, but /dev/cdrom is not created at boot
time and k3b returns
No optical drive found.
K3b did not find any optical device in your system.
Solution : Make sure HAL daemon is running, it is used by K3b for finding
devices.
Well, hald IS running on my hardened amd64 system and /etc/udev/rules.d
contains
70-persistent-cd.rules. Where should I look now to fix the problem ?
--
~adj~
What's the contents of 70-persistent-cd.rules? I recently had the same
problem on a HP laptop; the DVD drive worked in most things, but not in
K3B, and I tracked the root down to the fact that while I could see
/dev/sr0, the symlinks for /dev/[cdrom,cdrw,dvd,dvdrw] weren't there. I
could mount /dev/sr0 and the drive worked, but K3B never found the
drive. I believe I fixed it by editing that rules file somehow. I
can't remember while laptop it was on, but here's the two
70-persistent-cd.rules files I have:
(I think this one was the one that worked)
# This file was automatically generated by the /lib/udev/write_cd_rules
# program, run by the cd-aliases-generator.rules rules file.
#
# You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on a single
# line, and set the $GENERATED variable.
# CDDVDW_TS-L633N (pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-1:0:0:0)
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-1:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrom,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-1:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=cdrw,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-1:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=dvd,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
SUBSYSTEM==block, ENV{ID_CDROM}==?*,
ENV{ID_PATH}==pci-:00:1f.2-scsi-1:0:0:0, SYMLINK+=dvdrw,
ENV{GENERATED}=1
(I think this one was the one that I had to rewrite myself)
SUBSYSTEM==block, KERNEL==hdb, SYMLINK+=cdrom, GROUP=cdrom
SUBSYSTEM==block, KERNEL==hdb, SYMLINK+=cdrw, GROUP=cdrom
SUBSYSTEM==block, KERNEL==hdb, SYMLINK+=dvd, GROUP=cdrom
SUBSYSTEM==block, KERNEL==hdb, SYMLINK+=dvdrw, GROUP=cdrom
HTH,
Jake Moe
Re: [gentoo-user] SOLVED: problem with PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI
On 5 Sep 2010, at 17:54, David Relson wrote: ... I've got it without that, Portage 2.1.8.3. $ grep ELOG /etc/make.conf PORTAGE_ELOG_CLASSES=warn error log PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM=save mail PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI=root PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILFROM=port...@hex $ Works fine here. I assumed he would also have to be running a sendmail-replacement for the example he gave to work: echo testing use...@mydomain.com | \ mail -stesting use...@mydomain.com use...@mydomain.com I kinda assumed his problem was that `mail` would provide a valid sender address, whereas the upstream ISP might reject mails from portage with a dodgy from address. ... OP here ... Having my own domain, I run my own mailserver -- but it's not on my gentoo development machine. I read the emerge python code, specifically mail.py, to find how PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI is handled. Reading the code lead me to (finally) realize that I need to have a PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI value with two (2) fields separated by a space character. What version of portage, please? I certainly don't have that here, and it seems to be working. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 5 Sep 2010, at 23:04, Allan Gottlieb wrote: ... With square pixels 16x9 is 1920x1080 (so called full HD is 1080p). This is my laptop's display. My big (30) monitor is 16x10 (2560x1600) and is a joy to use. I prefer the current wide aspect ratio better then the previous 4x3 standard. That kind of resolution is starting to sound appealing, however from what I can tell, you're looking to pay 2 or 3 times the price [1] for a monitor of this specification, as you will for a set of three 1600x1200 TFTs. That makes it extremely hard to justify for me. I'll certainly admit that dual-head is not perfect, but I can't help thinking that maybe a central display with two aides, one at each side, might solve the central bezel problem. I'm having a lot of difficulty visualising how big high-quality widescreen monitors might compare to my good 4:3s, because I don't get to see them. Certainly the widescreens at the low-end of the market are much inferior, and a good 4:3 is not much more expensive than those. Stroller. [1] Please don't flame me if your maths on monitor pricing differs from mine; I didn't want to spend hours comparison shopping products I'm unlikely to buy right now.
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
On 6 Sep 2010, at 09:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, ... Current kernels usually call optical drives /dev/sr0 (/dev/sr1, c). See last months DVD borked: SysFS removed thread: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/user/216290 My advice in that thread applies also to you. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front?
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, but /dev/cdrom is not created at boot time and k3b returns No optical drive found. K3b did not find any optical device in your system. Solution : Make sure HAL daemon is running, it is used by K3b for finding devices. If you call cdrecord (release 3.00): cdrecord -scanbus or cdrecord -checkdrive and it finds a drive, then there is a bug in k3b. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin j...@cs.tu-berlin.de(uni) joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front?
Re: [gentoo-user] Blocks migrating from KDE 4.4.3 to 4.5.1
I wrote: So far, I see no difference from 4.5.0. Nepomuk crashed two times while indexing stuff. I rebuilt it with debug flags, but could not reproduce the bug yet. But 4.5.1 just got masked, so better wait a while until trying to do the upgrade. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front?
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
Apparently, though unproven, at 14:33 on Monday 06 September 2010, Nils Larsson did opine thusly: I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front? We have a. a mail loop b. a clueless user w.r.t. vacation settings -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] SOLVED: problem with PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 11:32:16 +0100 Stroller wrote: On 5 Sep 2010, at 17:54, David Relson wrote: ... I've got it without that, Portage 2.1.8.3. $ grep ELOG /etc/make.conf PORTAGE_ELOG_CLASSES=warn error log PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM=save mail PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI=root PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILFROM=port...@hex $ Works fine here. I assumed he would also have to be running a sendmail-replacement for the example he gave to work: echo testing use...@mydomain.com | \ mail -stesting use...@mydomain.com use...@mydomain.com I kinda assumed his problem was that `mail` would provide a valid sender address, whereas the upstream ISP might reject mails from portage with a dodgy from address. ... OP here ... Having my own domain, I run my own mailserver -- but it's not on my gentoo development machine. I read the emerge python code, specifically mail.py, to find how PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI is handled. Reading the code lead me to (finally) realize that I need to have a PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI value with two (2) fields separated by a space character. What version of portage, please? I certainly don't have that here, and it seems to be working. Stroller. 2.2_rc75 I'm running the latest and greatest 2.2_rc7. Are you running a mail server on your local machine? My not doing so is why I need the space.
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
Selon Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk: On 6 Sep 2010, at 09:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, ... Current kernels usually call optical drives /dev/sr0 (/dev/sr1, c). There's no sr* device on my system !!! Only way to reach the drive: /dev/hda. Help
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
Selon Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk: On 6 Sep 2010, at 09:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, ... Current kernels usually call optical drives /dev/sr0 (/dev/sr1, c). There's no sr* device on my system !!! Only way to reach the drive: /dev/hda. Help
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
Selon Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk: On 6 Sep 2010, at 09:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, ... Current kernels usually call optical drives /dev/sr0 (/dev/sr1, c). There's no sr* device on my system !!! Only way to reach the drive: /dev/hda. Help
Re: [gentoo-user] undetected DVD r/w device
Selon alain.didierj...@free.fr: Selon Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk: On 6 Sep 2010, at 09:55, alain.didierj...@free.fr wrote: For some unknown reason, my DVD r/w device is not detected as such by udev: I can mount /dev/hda and read a data CD, ... Current kernels usually call optical drives /dev/sr0 (/dev/sr1, c). There's no sr* device on my system !!! Only way to reach the drive: /dev/hda. Help Apologies for the triple post. The blame goes to my ISP
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [10-09-06 17:10]: Apparently, though unproven, at 14:33 on Monday 06 September 2010, Nils Larsson did opine thusly: I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front? We have a. a mail loop b. a clueless user w.r.t. vacation settings -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com The so called user has bought a brand new mobo. This mobo is the first mobo with HD sound. So -- how should this poor guy know what is missing, when it is a) not visible and b) unknown to the user? Best regards, the cluekless user
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 2010-09-06, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, there is an inherent problem: in order to get what I consider acceptable vertical size/resolution you have to buy something that's rediculously wide. Untrue. Vertical resolution depends only on the available dimension and the number of pixels-per-inch of your screen. Ah, how conveniently you ignored the _size_ requirement and concentrated solely on the resolution. How do you manage to take the position that screen height somehow depends on the machine width? Remember that we are talking regular sized notebooks here Of course screen height depends on width. To get a display height equivalent to my current Thinkpad's 15 display (height 9.2) with a 16:9 display, you have to buy a laptop that's 17 wide. My Thinkpad is 13 wide. I simply don't wan't to carry around that extra 4 of width. There are good reasons for it. It most easily fits the overall dimensions of the machine, you have a wide and not very deep keyboard plus space for a touchpad and palm rests. It's all approximately 16:9. No it's not. At least only on any of my laptops. I suppose you can tack on a useless numeric keypat to try to take up some of the extra horizontal space that's required in order to get a screen that's tall enough to be useful. I have a 16:9 in a regular sized notebook, a Dell M1530. There's no numpad. In fact the keyboard takes up less space horizontally than I'm used to. How tall is the display (physically)? How wide is the laptop (physically)? So please tell me again where this machine width thing comes from? Well, the height and width are related by a fixed ratio. With a 4:3 display, the laptop's width has to be at least displayHeight*(4/3). With a 16:9 display, the laptop's width has to be at least displayHeight(16/9). For a given height, a 16:9 display is 30% wider. I want nice tall display (prefereably at least 9-10) without having to increase the width beyond what a standard laptop style keyboard takes up (about 12-13 inches). Personally, I think you went cheap and bought a less-than-ideal screen based on price. Now you're just being insulting. My laptop display was almost top-of-the-line for IBM at the time: 15 1400x1050. There may have been a 16 1600x1200 available in another product line, but it wasn't available in the model line I wanted. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but IMO the cheap factor is why we got 16:9 displays on laptops in the first place. A 15 16:9 display is roughly 10% smaller (cheaper) than a 15 4:3 display. But, the salesdroid can talk the consumer into paying more for a cheaper product: Wow, for only $100 more we can move you up from a 15 regular display to a 15 WIDESCREEN display! $100 more and it's 1.6 shorter and has 10% less screen area! What a deal!! I didn't make that error - I spent the extra bucks, sacrificed a few features here and there and went for the best on offer. I have full 1200 height (the same as I get out of my 21 CRT monitor) which instantly renders all your arguments redundant. OK, how high is your display and how wide is your laptop? So tell me again why there is something wrong with 16:9? Because I don't want a 17 wide laptop, and I do want a 10 tall display. I think you have it conflated with 800 height which indeed is pathetic. No, it's about physical form factor: height vs. width. I want a physically tall display on a laptop that doesn't take up half of my neighbor's tray table. My idea display on a laptop would probably be a 4:3 16 1600x1200. -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Gentoo 32bit-64bit: How?
Hi,
My box is a working and fully configured Gentoo system, which is
uptodate.
For the sake of being able to address more RAM and for more
calculation power (mainly for rendering purposes) I want to
migrate to 64bit.
I googled for some tutorial but found nothing appropiate (one post
asked for the downtime to be expected while migrating a server --
something which not applies to me...).
My questions are:
1) Is there a performance gain, when migrating to 64bit if the
target applications supports 64bit?
2) Is it possible - if( true ){ how(); } - to simply
convert a 32bit system to 64 bit.
Simply in my case means: Simpler ways than starting right
from the bare metal of a virgin harddisk and doing the same
stuff I did for the current system again... ;)
3) Is there some tutorial, which show me the path to go?
Thank you very much in advance for any help!
Best regards,
mcc
[gentoo-user] virt-manager: Warning: KVM is not available
Hi! I start virt-manager-0.8.5, create a new virtual machine and get a message Warning: KVM is not available Why? Thanks. Some details: lsmod | grep kvm kvm_intel 35560 0 kvm 207681 1 kvm_intel getfacl /dev/kvm getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names # file: dev/kvm # owner: root # group: kvm user::rw- user:alexanderyt:rw- group::rw- mask::rw- other::--- uid=1000(alexanderyt) gid=1000(alexanderyt) groups=1000(alexanderyt),10(wheel),18(audio),27(video),446(plugdev),447(pulse-access),448(pulse),453(kvm),104(vboxusers)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo 32bit-64bit: How?
Am 06.09.2010 19:27, schrieb meino.cra...@gmx.de:
Hi,
My box is a working and fully configured Gentoo system, which is
uptodate.
For the sake of being able to address more RAM and for more
calculation power (mainly for rendering purposes) I want to
migrate to 64bit.
I googled for some tutorial but found nothing appropiate (one post
asked for the downtime to be expected while migrating a server --
something which not applies to me...).
My questions are:
1) Is there a performance gain, when migrating to 64bit if the
target applications supports 64bit?
2) Is it possible - if( true ){ how(); } - to simply
convert a 32bit system to 64 bit.
Simply in my case means: Simpler ways than starting right
from the bare metal of a virgin harddisk and doing the same
stuff I did for the current system again... ;)
3) Is there some tutorial, which show me the path to go?
Concerning the performance gain:
Yes, there is. Besides all the improvements when dealing with data types
larger than 32bit you also gain a more general improvement:
More general usage registers on your CPU. That means less stress on
cache and RAM because more operands can be kept ready to usage. It also
speeds up function calls in general because a limited number of
parameters do not need to be passed by storing them on-stack but by
storing them in registers.
Converting:
Look at the mailing list archives. This question had been asked a number
of times over the last few years.
Hope this helps
Florian Philipp
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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Shared libraries in Gentoo
Hello, I looked into many ebuilds, but didn't come to a final conclusion yet. I am rather confused. How does a program in Gentoo know, where to look for shared libraries? Is this compiled into the programes by means of rpath? Does Gentoo set up a general search path for libraries? Does this rather differ on per package basis? I hint to the right docs would help. Thank you in advance Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo 32bit-64bit: How?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Am 06.09.2010 19:27, schrieb meino.cra...@gmx.de:
Hi,
My questions are:
1) Is there a performance gain, when migrating to 64bit if the
target applications supports 64bit?
2) Is it possible - if( true ){ how(); } - to simply
convert a 32bit system to 64 bit.
Simply in my case means: Simpler ways than starting right
from the bare metal of a virgin harddisk and doing the same
stuff I did for the current system again... ;)
3) Is there some tutorial, which show me the path to go?
Thank you very much in advance for any help!
Best regards,
mcc
The only way i know to migrate to 64bit is a reinstallation. But the
config files are the same of cause, so it should not be so hard as the
first install if you save your /etc and /home.
The CPU vendors tell, that 64bit code is faster on their 64bit capable
CPUs. Personally i newer thought, oh yes i feel it, this is 64bit. If
there is a speed gain, it is marginal or only in special cases.
So if you only want to switch to 64bit because of the memory, you could
also use PAE till you want to reinstall anyway.
Nevertheless 64bit on a 64bit capable CPU seems like the way to go :-).
Regards,
Norman
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Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo 32bit-64bit: How?
Check out this, it should answer most of your questions...
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-amd64-faq.xml#perfup
Hi,
My box is a working and fully configured Gentoo system, which is
uptodate.
For the sake of being able to address more RAM and for more
calculation power (mainly for rendering purposes) I want to
migrate to 64bit.
I googled for some tutorial but found nothing appropiate (one post
asked for the downtime to be expected while migrating a server --
something which not applies to me...).
My questions are:
1) Is there a performance gain, when migrating to 64bit if the
target applications supports 64bit?
2) Is it possible - if( true ){ how(); } - to simply
convert a 32bit system to 64 bit.
Simply in my case means: Simpler ways than starting right
from the bare metal of a virgin harddisk and doing the same
stuff I did for the current system again... ;)
3) Is there some tutorial, which show me the path to go?
Thank you very much in advance for any help!
Best regards,
mcc
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo 32bit-64bit: How?
On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:27 AM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote:
Hi,
My box is a working and fully configured Gentoo system, which is
uptodate.
For the sake of being able to address more RAM and for more
calculation power (mainly for rendering purposes) I want to
migrate to 64bit.
I googled for some tutorial but found nothing appropiate (one post
asked for the downtime to be expected while migrating a server --
something which not applies to me...).
My questions are:
1) Is there a performance gain, when migrating to 64bit if the
target applications supports 64bit?
2) Is it possible - if( true ){ how(); } - to simply
convert a 32bit system to 64 bit.
Simply in my case means: Simpler ways than starting right
from the bare metal of a virgin harddisk and doing the same
stuff I did for the current system again... ;)
3) Is there some tutorial, which show me the path to go?
Thank you very much in advance for any help!
Best regards,
mcc
I think there are some performance advantages but frankly I don't
'feel' them running my systems. None the less if my system is 64-bit
capable I build 64-bit.
There is no 'conversion' or 'upgrade' path that I know about. The way
I did what you are talking about is to build a second Gentoo install
of 64-bit on the same system. and then reference my same home
directories which are on a partition by themselves. Make sure you use
the same ID numbers for users and groups, etc., but if you do that you
can still run 32-bit until the 64-bit is running and stable, and then
wipe the 32-bit partitions to get the disk space back.
I used the 32-bit grub installation, added the 64-bit kernel, and then
never installed grub from within 64-bit. The old version is still out
there and still boots even though the 32-bit install no longer
exists.
Hope this helps,
Mark
[gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Hi, being comparingly new to Gentoo I still wounder why the classical heart of every open source community is missing, a public news server. At least a news server is not offically announced on http://www.gentoo.org/ like forums, IRC and mailinglists. (I can read some, not all of the lists via infosun2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de.) Well, there are mailinglists. But mailinglists send each message to everybody producing a lot of traffic overhead. As as result people are socially driven to reduce the amount of messages. The lists are dead early while IRC still is active. By this a lot of interesting solutions are lost to effective web search. The buzz in IRC doesn't result in a web searchable documentation. It is rubbish the moment after it was written. Also it is not everybodies taste only to send small messages and to paste elsewhere when the stuff exceeds 2 lines of code. Then there are some Gentoo web forums out there. Now that is really slow, moving tons of HTML for every single posting. Valuable information is scattered all around. Do we think intelligent people to limited to install a Thunderbird to read news, so that people are to driven to web forums like housewifes, that only know the web as webpages? When comparing Gentoo with other communities it has very good documentation but communication could be better. I am missing the heart of it. Al
[gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
On 09/06/2010 09:28 PM, Al wrote: Hello, I looked into many ebuilds, but didn't come to a final conclusion yet. I am rather confused. How does a program in Gentoo know, where to look for shared libraries? The program doesn't know. But the runtime linker does. And those paths are in /etc/ld.so.conf. This file gets updated automatically by portage when needed. But... sometimes the program also knows and can link against libraries long after it has started up using a dlopen() call: http://linux.die.net/man/3/dlopen
Re: [SOLVED] Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird and IMAP folders
On 9/2/2010 12:43 PM, Jim Cunning wrote: On 09/01/2010 10:44 AM, Andrea Conti wrote: Hi, I routinely use thunderbird to access mail on a cyrus IMAP server with very large folders (thousands of archived messages). IMAP support in the 3.1 series seems quite stable to me (whereas 2.x had frequent problems with folder indexes and 3.0.x tended to hang randomly while performing server operations) The only problem I can think of is that if you have used the default settings for the message search feature, thunderbird will attempt to build a full-text search index by downloading every message on the server (body included) when it is first run. Thunderbird will try downloading messages from multiple folders in parallel, which might cause a hign load on the server resulting in substantial delays when listing folder contents. If thunderbird is indexing messages (look at the progress indicator on the status bar), try leaving it alone until it is done -- it's a one-time process. If, on the other hand, everything is idle, I'm sorry but I have no idea. HTH, andrea The problem turned out not to be with Thunderbird at all, but with the courier-imap configuration. I found in /var/log/messages some instances of this: imapd-ssl: Maximum connection limit reached for :::10.0.0.1 It appears that the default configuration for MAXPERIP (maximum number of connections to accept from the same IP address) was set to 4. (I assume it's the default, since I never changed it myself.) Changing the value to 10 eliminated the Thunderbird problem entirely. I don't know if some other value between 4 and 10 would work as well. I'm happy with it as it is now. I'd recommend 10 connections per concurrent account that connects to the server from the same IP. If you're running multiple accounts, like kashani-list@ and kashani@ in my case, you'll want at least 20. Same thing applies if you're running webmail for multiple account because all account access will originate from localhost. kashani
Re: [gentoo-user] How to fix circular dependency?
On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Dale wrote: Try this: emerge -1av =*glibc*-2.10.1-r1 # emerge -1av =*glibc*-2.10.1-r1 * IMPORTANT: 1 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'. * Use eselect news to read news items. These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies - !!! '=*glibc*-2.10.1-r1' is not a valid package atom. !!! Please check ebuild(5) for full details. !!! (Did you specify a version but forget to prefix with '='?) ... done! -- A
Re: [gentoo-user] How to fix circular dependency?
Ajai Khattri writes: On Sun, 5 Sep 2010, Dale wrote: Try this: emerge -1av =*glibc*-2.10.1-r1 # emerge -1av =*glibc*-2.10.1-r1 * IMPORTANT: 1 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'. * Use eselect news to read news items. These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies - !!! '=*glibc*-2.10.1-r1' is not a valid package atom. !!! Please check ebuild(5) for full details. !!! (Did you specify a version but forget to prefix with '='?) ... done! What Dale meant is to try installling sys-libs/glibc-2.10.1-r1. I have not checked the depencencies, but the idea is that this version of glibc does not depend on the new gcc, which would pull in the new glibc. So try this: emerge -1a =sys-libs/glibc-2.10.1-r1 If it does not work, I'd try another glibc. eix sys-libs/glibc lists them all. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
How does a program in Gentoo know, where to look for shared libraries? The program doesn't know. But the runtime linker does. And those paths are in /etc/ld.so.conf. This file gets updated automatically by portage when needed. But... sometimes the program also knows and can link against libraries long after it has started up using a dlopen() call: http://linux.die.net/man/3/dlopen Thank you Nikos. I did read obout this in the Linux HOWTO: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO.html#DL-LIBRARIES But I was woundering if the /etc/ld.so.conf was only historical stuff. O.K. is not it's up-to-date. Good to know this. But it also writes that dlopen() is specific for Linux and Solaris. There would be alternatives: 1.) The glib library 2.) libltdl, which is part of GNU libtool Now I was woundering, which way would Gentoo choose or if that is not package specific at all. Are you sure dlopen() is used as a general approach on Gentoo? Also I installed a few libries with Prefix Gentoo on Cygwin. On Cygwin there is no /etc/ld.so.conf. Yet the libraries are found somehow. I still have to find out how it works in that environment. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
Also I installed a few libries with Prefix Gentoo on Cygwin. On Cygwin there is no /etc/ld.so.conf. Yet the libraries are found somehow. I still have to find out how it works in that environment. Ah! Your manpage answers this question: The directories /lib and /usr/lib are searched as last step. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Monday 06 September 2010, Al wrote: Hi, being comparingly new to Gentoo I still wounder why the classical heart of every open source community is missing, a public news server. At least a news server is not offically announced on http://www.gentoo.org/ like forums, IRC and mailinglists. (I can read some, not all of the lists via infosun2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de.) Well, there are mailinglists. But mailinglists send each message to everybody producing a lot of traffic overhead. As as result people are socially driven to reduce the amount of messages. The lists are dead early while IRC still is active. By this a lot of interesting solutions are lost to effective web search. The buzz in IRC doesn't result in a web searchable documentation. It is rubbish the moment after it was written. Also it is not everybodies taste only to send small messages and to paste elsewhere when the stuff exceeds 2 lines of code. Then there are some Gentoo web forums out there. Now that is really slow, moving tons of HTML for every single posting. Valuable information is scattered all around. Do we think intelligent people to limited to install a Thunderbird to read news, so that people are to driven to web forums like housewifes, that only know the web as webpages? When comparing Gentoo with other communities it has very good documentation but communication could be better. I am missing the heart of it. Al wtf are you talking about? and who is using news anyway?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On Monday 06 September 2010 17:24:45 Grant Edwards wrote: On 2010-09-06, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, there is an inherent problem: in order to get what I consider acceptable vertical size/resolution you have to buy something that's rediculously wide. Untrue. Vertical resolution depends only on the available dimension and the number of pixels-per-inch of your screen. Ah, how conveniently you ignored the _size_ requirement and concentrated solely on the resolution. How do you manage to take the position that screen height somehow depends on the machine width? Remember that we are talking regular sized notebooks here Of course screen height depends on width. To get a display height equivalent to my current Thinkpad's 15 display (height 9.2) with a 16:9 display, you have to buy a laptop that's 17 wide. My Thinkpad is 13 wide. I simply don't wan't to carry around that extra 4 of width. There are good reasons for it. It most easily fits the overall dimensions of the machine, you have a wide and not very deep keyboard plus space for a touchpad and palm rests. It's all approximately 16:9. No it's not. At least only on any of my laptops. I suppose you can tack on a useless numeric keypat to try to take up some of the extra horizontal space that's required in order to get a screen that's tall enough to be useful. I have a 16:9 in a regular sized notebook, a Dell M1530. There's no numpad. In fact the keyboard takes up less space horizontally than I'm used to. How tall is the display (physically)? How wide is the laptop (physically)? So please tell me again where this machine width thing comes from? Well, the height and width are related by a fixed ratio. With a 4:3 display, the laptop's width has to be at least displayHeight*(4/3). With a 16:9 display, the laptop's width has to be at least displayHeight(16/9). For a given height, a 16:9 display is 30% wider. I want nice tall display (prefereably at least 9-10) without having to increase the width beyond what a standard laptop style keyboard takes up (about 12-13 inches). Personally, I think you went cheap and bought a less-than-ideal screen based on price. Now you're just being insulting. My laptop display was almost top-of-the-line for IBM at the time: 15 1400x1050. There may have been a 16 1600x1200 available in another product line, but it wasn't available in the model line I wanted. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but IMO the cheap factor is why we got 16:9 displays on laptops in the first place. A 15 16:9 display is roughly 10% smaller (cheaper) than a 15 4:3 display. But, the salesdroid can talk the consumer into paying more for a cheaper product: Wow, for only $100 more we can move you up from a 15 regular display to a 15 WIDESCREEN display! $100 more and it's 1.6 shorter and has 10% less screen area! What a deal!! I didn't make that error - I spent the extra bucks, sacrificed a few features here and there and went for the best on offer. I have full 1200 height (the same as I get out of my 21 CRT monitor) which instantly renders all your arguments redundant. OK, how high is your display and how wide is your laptop? So tell me again why there is something wrong with 16:9? Because I don't want a 17 wide laptop, and I do want a 10 tall display. I think you have it conflated with 800 height which indeed is pathetic. No, it's about physical form factor: height vs. width. I want a physically tall display on a laptop that doesn't take up half of my neighbor's tray table. My idea display on a laptop would probably be a 4:3 16 1600x1200. I have to agree somewhat with Grant on this, extra wide screens *can* be a marketing ploy. I bought a 15.6 16:9 1920x1080 Full HD Dell. The picture clarity is fantastic for watching HD videos - definitely better than other lower resolutions at the same screen size of 15.6. The catch is that if you try to read anything at the native resolution and font size you soon end up with eye strain and headaches! Ha, ha! I imagine that at a 17+ or even better at an 18+ screen size this resolution would be ideal, but at 15.6 we're talking about a marketing gimmick for anyone who does not intent to buy a laptop only for videos and gaming. This is because although videos look fantastic, day to day usability is compromised. I had to increase font sizes and change the DPI so that I could read a page in a browser without squinting. If this were a desktop I would still go for the same resolution, but a much larger screen - probably 21 or so. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] [OT] ProFTPd problem with anonymous access
Hello all, I'm hoping someone on the list can help me out with a problem I'm having (or at least point me in the direction of a RTFM). I've got my laptop set up as a local rsync and source mirror for a PC at work and another laptop at home. The laptop has /usr/portage shared anonymously, so whatever distfile it's already downloaded, the other computers don't need to go out to the Internet to retrieve. This has been working for a little while now. However, recently I noticed that one of the local computers were going out to the Internet to retrieve the newest gentoo-sources, which I knew had already been downloaded on the mirror laptop. Looking further, I found that when I try to log into the laptop as anonymous, I get a 530-Unable to set anonymous privileges error, and in /var/log/messages, I see: ftp: Directory /usr/portage/ is not accessible. This setup used to work for a while, but looking back through /var/log/messages, it appears this started on 1 Sept. Going back through my emerge.log shows that the previous day, Portage had updated wine, and installed bar. Then later that day, I must have changed a USE flag for hal, because then I see policykit being installed, then hal being rebuilt. Then I was trying to help a friend get data off a disk their kids had wiped, so I installed testdisk, gpart and gparted. The next day sees iputils, apache-tools, apache, docbook-xml-dtd-4.2, and deskbar-applet being updated. I was having troubles with the upgrade-then-downgrade of dhcpcd and upgrade of gentoo-sources-2.6.35, so later that day saw me unmasking dhcpcd-5.2.7 and re-upgrading that. As far as I can tell, ProFTPd should be trying to access that folder with the ftp account that Portage set up for me. And permissions on both /usr and /usr/portage give r-x to other. So if I understand correctly, it *should* be able to access that folder, at least read-only. Changing it to rwx for other doesn't fix it, either. Attached is my proftpd.conf, as configured according to http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/HOWTO_Setup_local_Portage_and_Package_Mirror (and which had been worked previously). Any help would be appreciated. Jake Moe ServerName aus10224 ServerType standalone DefaultServer on RequireValidShell off AuthPAM off AuthPAMConfig ftp Port21 Umask 022 MaxInstances30 Userftp Group ftp # These need to be changed to use the standard ftp user and group. Anonymous /usr/portage Userftp Group ftp UserAlias anonymous ftp Limit WRITE DenyAll /Limit /Anonymous
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
On 07/09/10 01:44, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [10-09-06 17:10]: Apparently, though unproven, at 14:33 on Monday 06 September 2010, Nils Larsson did opine thusly: I did an alsaconf- and update-modules-reboot-cycle, but the only thing I get with alsamixer are four bars: master,pcm,capture,digital Seems a little too less for high definit audio, or ? But what is you're missing? S/DPIF? Headphone? Front? We have a. a mail loop b. a clueless user w.r.t. vacation settings -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com The so called user has bought a brand new mobo. This mobo is the first mobo with HD sound. So -- how should this poor guy know what is missing, when it is a) not visible and b) unknown to the user? Best regards, the cluekless user He wasn't talking to you. He was talking to the guy that posted the same response 4 times to the list to your original e-mail. :-P Jake Moe
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: wtf are you talking about? and who is using news anyway? I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On 07/09/10 06:19, Al wrote: Hi, being comparingly new to Gentoo I still wounder why the classical heart of every open source community is missing, a public news server. At least a news server is not offically announced on http://www.gentoo.org/ like forums, IRC and mailinglists. (I can read some, not all of the lists via infosun2.rus.uni-stuttgart.de.) Well, there are mailinglists. But mailinglists send each message to everybody producing a lot of traffic overhead. As as result people are socially driven to reduce the amount of messages. The lists are dead early while IRC still is active. By this a lot of interesting solutions are lost to effective web search. The buzz in IRC doesn't result in a web searchable documentation. It is rubbish the moment after it was written. Also it is not everybodies taste only to send small messages and to paste elsewhere when the stuff exceeds 2 lines of code. Then there are some Gentoo web forums out there. Now that is really slow, moving tons of HTML for every single posting. Valuable information is scattered all around. Do we think intelligent people to limited to install a Thunderbird to read news, so that people are to driven to web forums like housewifes, that only know the web as webpages? When comparing Gentoo with other communities it has very good documentation but communication could be better. I am missing the heart of it. Al Why say that lists are dead early? This list I find takes a certain amount of maintenance to keep up-to-date, otherwise it grows to an unmanageable number of e-mails in my Inbox. If anything, it's too alive with too much communication, it's nowhere near dead. That's not to say I'm complaining about the amount of mail this list generates; I'm just saying that it's certainly not dead. Everyone's got their preference; some like mailing lists and come here. Others like forums and go there. Still others prefer IRC. Also, a quick Google search of gentoo newsgroup showed me alt.os.linux.gentoo, and that it's been posted to as recently as less than a month ago. What's wrong with that newsgroup? And I, for one at least, use Thunderbird to read my e-mail; the interface is pretty much the same for mail and news. A little configuration change and I'd be using news. But I like the mailing list, not newsgroups. (shrug) Jake Moe
[gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
On 09/06/2010 11:28 AM, Al wrote: Hello, I looked into many ebuilds, but didn't come to a final conclusion yet. I am rather confused. Welcome ;) How does a program in Gentoo know, where to look for shared libraries? Try running ldconfig -p, which relates to Nikos's comment about ld.so.conf. Is this compiled into the programes by means of rpath? Are you coming from a BSD background? I know NetBSD uses rpath everywhere, and they don't use the ld.so.conf mechanism at all, but I can't recall if the others do or don't. Some gentoo packages use rpath, others don't. Use readelf -d file to list the runtime needs of file. For example: #readelf -d /usrlib/evolution/2.30/libevolution-mail-settings.so.0.0.0 | grep Library 0x000e (SONAME) Library soname: [libevolution-mail-settings.so.0] 0x000f (RPATH) Library rpath: [/usr/lib/evolution/2.30:/usr/lib] 0x001d (RUNPATH)Library runpath: [/usr/lib/evolution/2.30:/usr/lib] On the other hand: $readelf -d /lib/libm.so.6 | grep Library 0x000e (SONAME) Library soname: [libm.so.6] Does this rather differ on per package basis? Apparently yes, but I get the impression that the upstream maintainers make that decision for gentoo, whereas the NetBSD devs add the needed linker flags for every package they use: -Wl,-rpath,'$ORIGIN/../lib (man 8 ld.so). Corrections welcomed.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com writes: For a given height, a 16:9 display is 30% wider. I want nice tall display (prefereably at least 9-10) without having to increase the width beyond what a standard laptop style keyboard takes up (about 12-13 inches). It is certainly true that, if the height of the display is the key factor and hence fixed, a wider screen will add more inches (I again assume square pixels). However, those extra inches and resulting extra pixels are far from useless. I believe you are selling two up short. When I am preparing a course, I have the html up in one (emacs) window and the resulting web page in another (firefox) window immediately to its right. Heck I very much use and enjoy 3-up on my large (30 2560x1600) monitor. Perhaps I'm too cynical, but IMO the cheap factor is why we got 16:9 displays on laptops in the first place. A 15 16:9 display is roughly 10% smaller (cheaper) than a 15 4:3 display. But, the salesdroid can talk the consumer into paying more for a cheaper product: Wow, for only $100 more we can move you up from a 15 regular display to a 15 WIDESCREEN display! $100 more and it's 1.6 shorter and has 10% less screen area! What a deal!! You are correct that this salesperson was, perhaps out of ignorance--perhaps malice) making a specious argument. But limiting purchases to items for which a salesperson cannot argue speciously, is not the best selection criterion. allan
[gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
On 09/07/2010 12:24 AM, Al wrote: How does a program in Gentoo know, where to look for shared libraries? The program doesn't know. But the runtime linker does. And those paths are in /etc/ld.so.conf. This file gets updated automatically by portage when needed. But... sometimes the program also knows and can link against libraries long after it has started up using a dlopen() call: http://linux.die.net/man/3/dlopen Thank you Nikos. I did read obout this in the Linux HOWTO: http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO.html#DL-LIBRARIES But I was woundering if the /etc/ld.so.conf was only historical stuff. O.K. is not it's up-to-date. Good to know this. But it also writes that dlopen() is specific for Linux and Solaris. There would be alternatives: 1.) The glib library 2.) libltdl, which is part of GNU libtool Now I was woundering, which way would Gentoo choose or if that is not package specific at all. Are you sure dlopen() is used as a general approach on Gentoo? Gentoo doesn't choose anything; it's up to the programs to decide how they want to load libraries at runtime. It's like asking whether Gentoo chooses to use Qt or Gtk to run Firefox; well, since Firefox is a Gtk application and is making calls to Gtk functions, Gentoo doesn't have a say about it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: wtf are you talking about? and who is using news anyway? I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its called? Then he can have it as a newsgroup. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] How to fix circular dependency?
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010, Alex Schuster wrote:
What Dale meant is to try installling sys-libs/glibc-2.10.1-r1. I have not
checked the depencencies, but the idea is that this version of glibc does
not depend on the new gcc, which would pull in the new glibc. So try this:
emerge -1a =sys-libs/glibc-2.10.1-r1
If it does not work, I'd try another glibc. eix sys-libs/glibc lists them
all.
OK, Ive managed to proceed a little further, but now Im encountering this:
# emerge -uDtpvk world
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
!!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been
pulled
!!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict:
dev-php/PEAR-PEAR:0
('ebuild', '/', 'dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.9.0', 'merge') pulled in by
=dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.6.1 required by ('installed', '/',
'dev-php/PEAR-Net_Socket-1.0.8', 'nomerge')
=dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.6.1 required by ('installed', '/',
'dev-php/PEAR-Mail-1.1.14', 'nomerge')
dev-php/PEAR-PEAR required by world
(and 1 more)
('installed', '/', 'dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.6.2-r1', 'nomerge') pulled in by
dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.8.1 required by ('installed', '/',
'dev-php/PEAR-Net_SMTP-1.2.10', 'nomerge')
dev-php/PEAR-PEAR-1.8.1 required by ('installed', '/',
'dev-php/PEAR-Mail-1.1.14', 'nomerge')
dev-php/PEAR-PEAR required by world
(and 1 more)
Not sure what this message means?
--
A
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:42:40 +1000 Jake Moe jakesaddr...@gmail.com wrote: Everyone's got their preference; some like mailing lists and come here. Others like forums and go there. Still others prefer IRC. Also, a quick Google search of gentoo newsgroup showed me alt.os.linux.gentoo, and that it's been posted to as recently as less than a month ago. What's wrong with that newsgroup? And I, for one at least, use Thunderbird to read my e-mail; the interface is pretty much the same for mail and news. A little configuration change and I'd be using news. But I like the mailing list, not newsgroups. (shrug) And for those who like newsgroups, gmane is available.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
Jake it is a pity when well working systems are replaced by systems that are less good. But the high cultures of the ancient world also have been replaced by dark medieval times and italien restaurants are beeing replaced by burger burners (here in Europe). Why say that lists are dead early? This list I find takes a certain amount of maintenance to keep up-to-date, otherwise it grows to an unmanageable number of e-mails in my Inbox. If anything, it's too Well that is the first advantage of a newsreader. It does not spam your mailbox. You select yourself what you want to read by the header. The other contents are never delivered to you, eat up neither traffic nor space. People don't really need to complain of to much traffic. alive with too much communication, it's nowhere near dead. That's not to say I'm complaining about the amount of mail this list generates; I'm just saying that it's certainly not dead. Here people in fact complain about to much mail. Usually you should be able to anser frankly: Use a news reader. In a mailinglist you can't. Instead here people get made a bad conscience when they are posting or discussing. That I consider rather contraproductive. That drives people to IRC with the result of a big loss of living documentation and a split within the community. Everyone's got their preference; some like mailing lists and come here. Others like forums and go there. Still others prefer IRC. Also, a quick Google search of gentoo newsgroup showed me alt.os.linux.gentoo, and that it's been posted to as recently as less than a month ago. What's wrong with that newsgroup? 1.) It's not even officially anounced on gentoo.org 2.) It is not on a public available gentoo server. I first would need access to alt.os.linux.gentoo. 3.) It is not synchronized with the mailing list. 4.) The leaders of the community don't support it. How should it work then? Just because it has gentoo in it's name? And I, for one at least, use Thunderbird to read my e-mail; the interface is pretty much the same for mail and news. A little configuration change and I'd be using news. But I like the mailing list, not newsgroups. (shrug) Right for a thunderbird user there is no real difference at all. He is already advanced. Probably one should say less retarded. Saying this I currently write from google web on windows. But the reason is, that I try to port Gentoo to Cygwin. I still think a newsserver should be the backbone of a good community. Mail and forums should be additional doors for those which are brought up in the world of windows and google. Best they are fully synchronized and it is the same database. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its called? Then he can have it as a newsgroup. It's not the question how I read it, but a question how a majority of users can read and write to it. That influences the culture and athmosphere of communication. Also I think Volkers remark was very ironical else he should best go back to his dishes. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:10:02 +0200, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote about Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: wtf are you talking about? and who is using news anyway? I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its called? Then he can have it as a newsgroup. I read this list through Usenet as a newsgroup. However, I post my follow-ups, such as this one, using email to the mailing list. It's no big deal. Moreover, keeping this as a subscription-only mailing list keeps the spam count down. -- Regards, Dave [RLU #314465] *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon) *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
Are you coming from a BSD background? I know NetBSD uses rpath everywhere, and they don't use the ld.so.conf mechanism at all, but I can't recall if the others do or don't. No, I am comming from a Debian/Ubuntu background where it simply worked. Now I try to port Gentoo to Cygwin and it doesn't always work. So I have to dig a little deeper to get it working, asking myself what makes theese working while others break. Thank you very much for all extensive hints. Unfortunately Cygwin is not ELF but PE/COFF so all ELF debugging tools do not help. I even have to tweak an eclasses where it relies on scanelf. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
Now I was woundering, which way would Gentoo choose or if that is not package specific at all. Are you sure dlopen() is used as a general approach on Gentoo? Gentoo doesn't choose anything; it's up to the programs to decide how they want to load libraries at runtime. It's like asking whether Gentoo chooses to use Qt or Gtk to run Firefox; well, since Firefox is a Gtk application and is making calls to Gtk functions, Gentoo doesn't have a say about it. O.K. that is one importent point I needed to understand. So the choice of the tool to handle dynamic linking is on the side of the programs and can't be triggert uniformly from the ebuilds. Hmm, ist the dlopen() call the same on all plattforms? I assume, else you would need to adapt the sources. How can I find that out? Sure grepping the sources. Al
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On 07/09/10 09:55, Al wrote: Jake it is a pity when well working systems are replaced by systems that are less good. But the high cultures of the ancient world also have been replaced by dark medieval times and italien restaurants are beeing replaced by burger burners (here in Europe) Why say that lists are dead early? This list I find takes a certain amount of maintenance to keep up-to-date, otherwise it grows to an unmanageable number of e-mails in my Inbox. If anything, it's too Well that is the first advantage of a newsreader. It does not spam your mailbox. You select yourself what you want to read by the header. The other contents are never delivered to you, eat up neither traffic nor space. People don't really need to complain of to much traffic. Well, whether the headers are from an IMAP server or an NNTP server, they're still headers. It's my understanding that Thunderbird only downloads everything in my mail folder because I tell it to. I could just as easily not tell it to, and only double-click on the messages that are interesting to me, and simply delete the rest. Since I'm trying to learn as much as possible about Gentoo (I've only been using Linux about a year or two), I choose to download it all, cause I'm going to read it all; I learn a lot from things that I don't even intend to use. alive with too much communication, it's nowhere near dead. That's not to say I'm complaining about the amount of mail this list generates; I'm just saying that it's certainly not dead. Here people in fact complain about to much mail. Usually you should be able to anser frankly: Use a news reader. In a mailinglist you can't. Instead here people get made a bad conscience when they are posting or discussing. That I consider rather contraproductive. That drives people to IRC with the result of a big loss of living documentation and a split within the community. I'm not sure what you mean by get made a bad conscience. Perhaps, you mean are made to feel bad about posting? The only times I've seen that happen are when either a) the OP could have answered him/herself by a fairly simple Google search (and the reply that says this usually gives a hint as to what they should be searching for, in case they didn't think of it themselves, and they are usually followed up by someone going Uh duh, why didn't I think of that or Thanks, I hadn't thought of that), or b) the subject is something so far off the topic of Gentoo that people ask they don't post about it here. I probably mis-spoke by saying it's too alive. I certainly don't want to give the impression that I'm burdened by the amount of mail generated; if so, I'd simply unsubscribe. Everyone's got their preference; some like mailing lists and come here. Others like forums and go there. Still others prefer IRC. Also, a quick Google search of gentoo newsgroup showed me alt.os.linux.gentoo, and that it's been posted to as recently as less than a month ago. What's wrong with that newsgroup? 1.) It's not even officially anounced on gentoo.org 2.) It is not on a public available gentoo server. I first would need access to alt.os.linux.gentoo. 3.) It is not synchronized with the mailing list. 4.) The leaders of the community don't support it. How should it work then? Just because it has gentoo in it's name? 1.) That's a separate discussion, one you'd have to take up with the Gentoo devs. You can ask if there's interested here, but I would think that's about as far as this mailing list could go with it. 2.) It's been a while since I used newsgroups, but I thought you pointed your newsreader to a server that had the newsgroup in question, and then read it from there? If your news server doesn't have that newsgroup, you should ask for it? Other than that, I can't help; as I said, it's been a long time since I used it. And I, for one at least, use Thunderbird to read my e-mail; the interface is pretty much the same for mail and news. A little configuration change and I'd be using news. But I like the mailing list, not newsgroups. (shrug) Right for a thunderbird user there is no real difference at all. He is already advanced. Probably one should say less retarded. I didn't say I was advanced. But are you saying that using a newsgroup is really that different that using e-mail? You double-click on messages to open them, you click a button to reply to them, you type text in to make the body of the reply, and then you click send. The main difference I see has to do with public vs. private access. Even news gets replicated around to every server that chooses to offer that group. So either it goes to a bunch of mailboxes, or a bunch of news servers. Saying this I currently write from google web on windows. But the reason is, that I try to port Gentoo to Cygwin. I still think a newsserver should be the backbone of a good community. Mail and forums should be additional doors for those which are brought up in the
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: advice sought on new laptop for Gentoo
On 2010-09-06, Allan Gottlieb gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com writes: For a given height, a 16:9 display is 30% wider. I want nice tall display (prefereably at least 9-10) without having to increase the width beyond what a standard laptop style keyboard takes up (about 12-13 inches). It is certainly true that, if the height of the display is the key factor and hence fixed, a wider screen will add more inches (I again assume square pixels). However, those extra inches and resulting extra pixels are far from useless. I'm not saying that a wide display is useless. When it comes to desktop displays bigger is always better (in either axis). I'm saying I don't want to have to haul around a laptop thats 18 wide so that I can have a display that's tall enough to comfortably edit code on. I believe you are selling two up short. No, I'm not. Two up is great on a desktop, where the extra width and weight aren't a penalty. When I am preparing a course, I have the html up in one (emacs) window and the resulting web page in another (firefox) window immediately to its right. Heck I very much use and enjoy 3-up on my large (30 2560x1600) monitor. We're talking about laptops. How would you like hauling around a 30 wide laptop? -- Grant
[gentoo-user] Wine complains about Gecko
When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I can't find any such package in portage though. eix gecko only finds dev-dotnet/gecko-sharp and www-plugins/gecko-mediaplayer.
[gentoo-user] strange network problem
Hi ,everybody I've met a strang network problem.My gentoo Netbook can't access google and some other web sites after lying idle about more than half an hour's. But it can acesses other sites normally ,And can pinging ervery sites including google very well! The Only thing i can do is rebooting the system,and Network resume aftre that. I've googled a lot,and found nothing to solve this problem. :-( It borthered me a lot.Please help me!
Re: [gentoo-user] Trying to configure alsa for INTEL HDA (ATI)
Perhaps; 1. Boot with knoppix 2. record lsmod output 3. Boot back into gentoo, go to kernel setup and select any missing modules, them make modules_install, and modprobe the modules (no need to reboot) 4. Try alsa again to see if anything has turned up? FWIW on my laptop; sphinx adam # lspci | grep -i audio 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03) 01:00.1 Audio device: ATI Technologies Inc RV635 Audio device [Radeon HD 3600 Series] sphinx adam # lsmod | grep snd snd_pcm_oss36995 0 snd_mixer_oss 14411 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_seq_oss26559 0 snd_seq_midi_event 5180 1 snd_seq_oss snd_seq47389 4 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq_device 4949 2 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq snd_hda_codec_atihdmi 2515 1 snd_hda_codec_idt 49279 1 snd_hda_intel 19482 0 snd_hda_codec 61897 3 snd_hda_codec_atihdmi,snd_hda_codec_idt,snd_hda_intel snd_pcm69399 3 snd_pcm_oss,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec snd_timer 17735 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm snd49836 10 snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_seq_device,snd_hda_codec_idt,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec,snd_pcm,snd_timer snd_page_alloc 6705 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shared libraries in Gentoo
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Al wrote: No, I am comming from a Debian/Ubuntu background where it simply worked. Same mechanism there too - Debian/Ubuntu also use /etc/ld.so.conf and/or /etc/ld.so.conf.d. You dont see it because you only deal with binary packages when updating in Debian/Ubuntu. Now I try to port Gentoo to Cygwin and it doesn't always work. When you say Gentoo, do you mean Portage? Remember Windows has a lot of limitations that WILL get in your way so dont be surprised when things break. -- A
Re: [gentoo-user] Wine complains about Gecko
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: When I try to launch a Windows program in Wine (1.3.2), an error dialog appears informing me that Gecko is not installed and the program might not work (which it doesn't). It has an install button there, but mentions that it would be better if the distro, Gentoo in this case, would offer it and install it from there. I can't find any such package in portage though. eix gecko only finds dev-dotnet/gecko-sharp and www-plugins/gecko-mediaplayer. Gecko is part of Firefox. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(layout_engine) -- A
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On Tuesday 07 September 2010, Al wrote: I was trying to figure this out myself. I thought maybe I was missing something in the message. Maybe not. Isn't the list aggregated into that news site gmain or whatever its called? Then he can have it as a newsgroup. It's not the question how I read it, but a question how a majority of users can read and write to it. That influences the culture and athmosphere of communication. Also I think Volkers remark was very ironical else he should best go back to his dishes. Al up until today nobody ever mentioned news. Everybody was happy using mailing lists, forums or irc. Or to phrase it differently: news is dying out quickly and gentoo never missed anything not having a newsgroups.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoos community communication rant
On 9/6/2010 4:55 PM, Al wrote: Well that is the first advantage of a newsreader. It does not spam your mailbox. You select yourself what you want to read by the header. The other contents are never delivered to you, eat up neither traffic nor space. People don't really need to complain of to much traffic. I'd be interested in how many people still have access to a news server these days. I don't and I'm not particularly interested in having to pay for access when email works well enough. kashani
