[gentoo-user] Fwd: [gentoo-project] Mass deactivation of Bugzilla accounts
Please notice this mail from the project-ml. Original Message Subject: [gentoo-project] Mass deactivation of Bugzilla accounts Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 21:36:31 +0200 From: Christian Ruppert id...@gentoo.org Reply-To: gentoo-proj...@lists.gentoo.org To: gentoo-proj...@lists.gentoo.org Hi everybody, I just wanted to let you know that we just disabled around 12890 Bugzilla accounts. Only accounts where either the remote SMTP returned a 5xx error code or the remote domain wasn't valid anymore/at all. It may be a good idea if you all check your accounts. *No* @gentoo.org accounts are affected! You'll see a notice when you try to login to Bugzilla if your account is affected. Please follow the instructions on the login page then. -- Regards, Christian Ruppert Role: Gentoo Linux developer, Bugzilla administrator and Infrastructure member Fingerprint: EEB1 C341 7C84 B274 6C59 F243 5EAB 0C62 B427 ABC8 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
2011/7/4 Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de: After syncing, some heavy packages wanted to rebuild because of the hardened USE flag. (I don't use the hardened profile, but they wanted to rebuild anyway.) Really heavy stuff including libreoffice and firefox-5. It took a few hours. Then, next resync, and the same packages want to rebuild again because of the hardened USE flag :-/ Anyone else getting this? These are big packages needing hours to get built. Everyone will get this. The culprit is a change in the pax-utils.eclass [1]. Which adds USE=hardened to every consumer of the eclass. It changes nothing for non hardened users but forces a rebuild of the affected packages. This unfortunate change was reverted [2] shortly afterwards, so everybody who did the recompile including me :) has to do it again. [1] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/pax-utils.eclass?r1=1.11r2=1.12 [2] http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/eclass/pax-utils.eclass?r1=1.12r2=1.13 -- Regards, Daniel
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 04:26:19 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: After syncing, some heavy packages wanted to rebuild because of the hardened USE flag. (I don't use the hardened profile, but they wanted to rebuild anyway.) Really heavy stuff including libreoffice and firefox-5. It took a few hours. Then, next resync, and the same packages want to rebuild again because of the hardened USE flag :-/ What profile and arch are you using? What arguments are you using to emerge? I used to see this sort of behaviour occasionally with --newuse, when it picked up USE flag changes unrelated to my system. Switching to --changed-use stopped it, and I've not seen anything with hardened. -- Neil Bothwick A seminar on time travel will be held 2 weeks ago. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portknock before Postfix delivery?
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:31:10 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: If that is not possible, what solution would you recommend to 'harden' the non-25 mail port? Postgrey. -- Neil Bothwick Old hitchhikers never die-they just throw in the towel.
[gentoo-user] Re: smplayer and kmplayer only works (almost) OK as root
Francisco Ares writes: # mplayer -msglevel all=6 sleeping\ suricates.wmv ^ That hash suggests that you are running the command as root. Type `whoami' to make sure. -- Alberto
[gentoo-user] portage continually wants to remerge gst-plugins-base
portage-2.2.0_alpha43 wants to remerge gst-plugins-base over and over. It gets correctly merged with a world update but still shows up with every world update thereafter. The package is not in world, has a long (20+) list of things that DEPEND on it, and no related USE flags have changed: [nomerge ] media-video/kmplayer-0.11.2c USE=cairo expat handbook npp (-aqua) -debug (-kdeenablefinal) LINGUAS=en_GB -cs -da -de -el -es -et -fr -ga -gl -it -ja -km -ku -lt -lv -mai -nb -nds -nl -nn -pl -pt -pt_BR -ro -ru -sk -sv -tr -uk -zh_CN -zh_TW [nomerge ] media-libs/phonon-4.5.0 USE=gstreamer vlc xine (- aqua) -debug -pulseaudio [nomerge ] media-libs/phonon-gstreamer-4.5.1 USE=alsa - debug [nomerge ]media-plugins/gst-plugins-meta-0.10-r6 USE=X a52 aac alsa dv dvb dvd ffmpeg flac lame mp3 mpeg musepack ogg theora v4l2 vcd vorbis vpx wavpack xv -esd -mythtv -oss -pulseaudio -taglib [nomerge ] media-plugins/gst-plugins-xvideo-0.10.35 [ebuild R] media-libs/gst-plugins-base-0.10.35 USE=orc (- introspection) -nls 0 kB I get the same results using --newuse and --changed-use, and downgrading portage to 2.2.0_alpha41 makes no difference either. @preserved-rebuild, revdep-rebuild also make no difference. Anyone else seeing this? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] portage continually wants to remerge gst-plugins-base
On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:28:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: portage-2.2.0_alpha43 wants to remerge gst-plugins-base over and over. [ebuild R] media-libs/gst-plugins-base-0.10.35 USE=orc (- introspection) -nls 0 kB Could it be related to https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373773 ? -- Neil Bothwick Nixon's Principal: If 2 wrongs don't make a right, try 3. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage continually wants to remerge gst-plugins-base
On Monday 04 July 2011 10:12:14 Neil Bothwick did opine thusly: On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 10:28:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: portage-2.2.0_alpha43 wants to remerge gst-plugins-base over and over. [ebuild R] media-libs/gst-plugins-base-0.10.35 USE=orc (- introspection) -nls 0 kB Could it be related to https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373773 ? g Right, where's my bloody shotgun? I looked at that bug earlier this morning and thought Nah, how can that be related? Throwing shit randomly at walls in the hope some of it might stick isn't my usual troubleshooting technique so I left it and looked in other more obvious places. But it cured it, and now I'm still wondering How can that be related? p.s. your tip earlier about --changed-use also sorted out this weekend's -hardened clusterfuck with world updates. Thanks :-) -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portknock before Postfix delivery?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 09:55, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 08:31:10AM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote If that is not possible, what solution would you recommend to 'harden' the non-25 mail port? portknocking sounds like doing things the hard way. The gateway has to have either a fixed IP address or at least a domain name. Set up iptables on your internal server to accept connections on the shifted smtp port only if the connection is coming from the right IP address or domain name. *slaps forehead* Gosh, you're right. What was I thinking... Clearly a case of Rube Goldberg-ian solution . Thanks for knocking some sense into my thick skull :-) Rgds, -- FdS Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] Portknock before Postfix delivery?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 14:22, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 08:31:10 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: If that is not possible, what solution would you recommend to 'harden' the non-25 mail port? Postgrey. Mmmm... no thanks. I'm trying to save the puny bandwidth incoming to my office :-) Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] portage continually wants to remerge gst-plugins-base
On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 11:49:05 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I looked at that bug earlier this morning and thought Nah, how can that be related? Throwing shit randomly at walls in the hope some of it might stick isn't my usual troubleshooting technique so I left it and looked in other more obvious places. Rule 2: If the low hanging fruit doesn't fix it, start throwing shit :) -- Neil Bothwick IBM - Incredibly Bastardized Multitasking... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] portage continually wants to remerge gst-plugins-base
On Monday 04 July 2011 10:12:14 Neil Bothwick wrote: Nixon's Principal: If 2 wrongs don't make a right, try 3. If I were a pedantic old bastard (etc...) s/Principal/Principle/ -- Rgds Peter
[gentoo-user] The definite --complete-graph
Hi everyone, the recent hint made around here by Neil Bothwick (thank you, Neil) about --changed-use, which I hadn't been aware of, made me re-read `man portage`. I came across --complete-graph, which is news to me too. The manpage makes it sound like it's something I want, but I fail to get its precise purpose. I tried googling for an answer, but ... well, it's probably still a fresh feature. Could anyone please explain its function? I thought the -D in 'emerge -uDN world' was enough to ensure that all world packages and all their runtime deps (recursively) are considered and updated/remerged, if necessary. The manpage suggests that --complete-graph is different in that it doesn't actually pull in update/remerge of deep (i.e., deeper than immediate) deps of world packages. It just checks if any updates/remerges of world packages (plus their immediate deps) causes any conficts deeper in the depgraph. Is that all there is to the difference between --deep and --complete-graph? Thanks a lot for clarification. -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: smplayer and kmplayer only works (almost) OK as root
On Monday 04 Jul 2011 08:43:48 Alberto Luaces wrote: Francisco Ares writes: # mplayer -msglevel all=6 sleeping\ suricates.wmv ^ That hash suggests that you are running the command as root. Type `whoami' to make sure. Unless Francisco has changed his prompt to confuse us all?! :-) Either way, from what mentioned so far I don't think there is anything wrong with mplayer. Running applications as root confuses matters and can give errors not related to running the application as a plain user (which is how it should run at all times anyway). The buffering error however, which you have not shown verbatim, could well be related to very high bufferring limit and or a slow connection (if this is occurring when you are trying to stream videos - you haven't said). Can you increase smplayer/mplayer's verbosity in the log and show the exact error that comes up when being run as a plain user? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
Hello, Everyone will get this. The culprit is a change in the pax-utils.eclass [1]. Which adds USE=hardened to every consumer of the eclass. That's IUSE, not USE. USE flags are not touched (at least on non-hardened systems), so the change is only picked up by emerge if you use the --new-use option. It changes nothing for non hardened users but forces a rebuild of the affected packages. If you're positively sure that a package's USE flags did not change since when it was last compiled, you can avoid recompiling by adding (or removing) the hardened flag in /var/db/pkg/category/package/IUSE. andrea
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Powering off Windows XP, crashing NTFS with a Live CD.
Hi, Mick. On Sun, Jul 03, 2011 at 01:17:33PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Sunday 03 Jul 2011 11:31:14 Alan Mackenzie wrote: Hi, Gentoo. There's been a cock and bull story on comp.os.linux.setup and I'm wondering about some of the details. Mainly, I'd like some education, please! The story, in essence: (i) Windows XP is running, with a normal NTFS filesystem(s). (ii) Power off without a proper shutdown. Not particularly wise on NTFS. Upon next boot up it'll try to run chkdsk, which you *must* not interrupt. 99% of the time it'll happily continue into a normal boot. Not wise on any system. :-). (iii) Start again with a Linux Live CD (distribution not specified). (iv) This corrupts the NTFS journal(s). No it does not. The NTFS journals (or the MSWindows partition and its NTFS) have nothing to do with a LiveCD booting and running exclusively in RAM. I worked that out too. Beyond doubt, the teller of the tale was a troll, of dubious credibility. (v) It is now difficult to start Windows. It would be without running chkdsk first, but you do not explain what the difficulty amounts to ... error messages 'n all. The troll said he had to let chkdsk run repeatedly, before W32 would boot. OK. My questions: o - Do live CDs actually mount filesystems on HDDs? Only when you ask them to. I'm stupid. Of _course_ a live CD can't mount HDD filesystems at boot. To do this it would need /etc/fstab, for which it would need to be told the root partition. A live CD doesn't get this. To mount NTFS you would these days use ntfs-3g: ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/windows or mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/windows I hadn't heard of this. Useful to know, though. o - Would this actually try to mount an NTFS filesystem? Linux LiveCDs will not typically mount anything whatsoever. They are by default respectful of the devices on the system. I don't know if this convention has changed recently, or if there are particular LiveCDs created with different mounting conventions for the sake of MSWindows users - who would not otherwise know how to mount a partition from Linux. Can't recall what MSWindows based LiveCDs do (e.g. BartsPE). Something else I hadn't heard about before yesterday. o - Given that Linux's NTFS doesn't (?yet) do journaling (see kernel docs), would the driver not detect the presence of a journal and leave well alone? The Kernel's NTFS driver is not safe for writing to a NTFS partition. It is mostly a read only driver (check the Help page of the module, next time you're rolling up a new kernel). If you mount a NTFS partition using the kernel driver and then try to write to it in a way that it requires a change to the fs journals then you will invariably corrupt the NTFS fs. The working solution for NTFS partitions these days is the ntfs-3g userspace application as mentioned above. CONCLUSION: To recover a MSWindows partition which did not shutdown cleanly, boot into MSWindows and let it run through the chkdsk sequence. When it finishes all should be good. Yes. If the MSWindows journal is corrupted, then you could try running ntfsfix /dev/sda1 to force it to run chkdsk next time it boots. When the MSWindows OS boots next time it will go through the chkdsk routine. If that does not fix it either, then the journalling problem is probably unrecoverable. In that case ntfs-3g won't work. Instead you could try mounting the partition using the Linux kernel driver (read only of course) and if it succeeds recover the files you need. If the Linux kernel NTFS driver does not work, then we are into a full blown recovery exercise. You could try testdisk and photorec. There are also a bunch of MSWindows solutions too to recover NTFS partitions/files, but I'm not sure if any of these are open source. HTH. Indeed it does. Thanks! -- Regards, Mick -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
2011/7/4 Andrea Conti a...@alyf.net: Hello, Everyone will get this. The culprit is a change in the pax-utils.eclass [1]. Which adds USE=hardened to every consumer of the eclass. That's IUSE, not USE. USE flags are not touched (at least on non-hardened systems), so the change is only picked up by emerge if you use the --new-use option. IUSE~=USE [1] It changes nothing for non hardened users but forces a rebuild of the affected packages. If you're positively sure that a package's USE flags did not change since when it was last compiled, you can avoid recompiling by adding (or removing) the hardened flag in /var/db/pkg/category/package/IUSE. Please do not use such hacks, use --changed-use to avoid a rebuild instead of --new-use like Neil suggested. Anyway the change in the eclass was reverted, so everything is fine again. [1] http://devmanual.gentoo.org/ebuild-writing/variables/index.html -- Regards, Daniel
[gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Hi once again, am I missing something or are these bugs? If bugs, do you think I should file them through bugzilla? # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # emerge -uN -D 100 --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # emerge -ep world .. shows mostly remerges, but also 6 new merges, for example sys-devel/autogen and virtual/pam. Shouldn't there be no new merges here? Let's re-check. # equery d virtual/pam * These packages depend on virtual/pam: net-mail/mailbase-1 (pam ? virtual/pam) net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/shadow-4.1.4.3 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-apps/xdm-1.1.10-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-misc/xlockmore-5.31 (pam ? virtual/pam) # emerge -pq virtual/pam [ebuild N] virtual/pam-0 # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y --autounmask y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # grep skype /var/lib/portage/world net-im/skype # emerge -p --autounmask y skype These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ~] net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 [2.1.0.81] USE=-hardened% The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed: #required by skype (argument) =net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 ~amd64 NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. # grep KEYWORDS /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.* /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.1.0.81.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.25.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.35-r1.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 .. Shouldn't 'emerge -uDN world' pull in skype-2.2.0.35-r1 too, as per the autounmask functionality? I'm using latest stable portage for this - 2.1.10.3. ~arch is 2.1.10.4 and I haven't tried it, but its changelog doesn't suggest any changes in relevant areas. # cat /etc/portage/package.keywords =sys-boot/grub-1.97.1 ** =app-emulation/wine-1.3.15 ~amd64 # cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-boot/grub-1.0 # cat /etc/portage/package.use media-libs/libsdl joystick dev-python/PyQt4 webkit dev-libs/libxml2 python dev-lang/perl ithreads media-plugins/audacious-plugins scrobbler # emerge --info Portage 2.1.10.3 (default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop, gcc-4.4.5, glibc-2.12.2-r0, 2.6.38-gentoo-r6 x86_64) = System uname: Linux-2.6.38-gentoo-r6-x86_64-AMD_Athlon-tm-_X2_Dual-Core_QL-65-with-gentoo-2.0.2 Timestamp of tree: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 18:15:01 + app-shells/bash: 4.1_p9 dev-lang/python: 2.7.1-r1, 3.1.3-r1 dev-util/cmake: 2.8.4-r1 dev-util/pkgconfig: 0.25-r2 sys-apps/baselayout: 2.0.2 sys-apps/openrc: 0.8.3-r1 sys-apps/sandbox: 2.4 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.68 sys-devel/automake: 1.9.6-r3, 1.11.1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.20.1-r1 sys-devel/gcc:4.4.5 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.1-r1 sys-devel/libtool:2.2.10 sys-devel/make: 3.82 sys-kernel/linux-headers: 2.6.36.1 (virtual/os-headers) sys-libs/glibc: 2.12.2 Repositories: gentoo ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64 x86 ACCEPT_LICENSE=* CBUILD=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -mtune=athlon64-sse3 -march=athlon64-sse3 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -msse3 -m3dnow CHOST=x86_64-pc-linux-gnu CONFIG_PROTECT=/etc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK=/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/gentoo-release /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/language.dat.d /etc/texmf/language.def.d /etc/texmf/updmap.d /etc/texmf/web2c CXXFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -mtune=athlon64-sse3 -march=athlon64-sse3 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -msse3 -m3dnow DISTDIR=/tmp/distfiles FEATURES=assume-digests binpkg-logs collision-protect distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles fixpackages news nodoc noinfo parallel-fetch protect-owned sandbox severe sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch usersync FFLAGS= GENTOO_MIRRORS=http://gentoo.mirror.web4u.cz/ http://gentoo.mirror.dkm.cz/pub/gentoo/ ftp://gentoo.mirror.web4u.cz/ ftp://gentoo.mirror.dkm.cz/pub/gentoo/ http://gentoo.supp.name/; LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,--as-needed LINGUAS=en cs ja MAKEOPTS=-j2 PKGDIR=/usr/portage/packages PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT=/ PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS=--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress
Re: [gentoo-user] Portknock before Postfix delivery?
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 17:15:41 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: If that is not possible, what solution would you recommend to 'harden' the non-25 mail port? Postgrey. Mmmm... no thanks. I'm trying to save the puny bandwidth incoming to my office :-) You run postgrey alongside postfix on the VM. Only the non-spam mails that get through user up any of your office's bandwidth. -- Neil Bothwick Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Powering off Windows XP, crashing NTFS with a Live CD.
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:12:03 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: o - Do live CDs actually mount filesystems on HDDs? Only when you ask them to. I'm stupid. Of _course_ a live CD can't mount HDD filesystems at boot. To do this it would need /etc/fstab, for which it would need to be told the root partition. A live CD doesn't get this. A live CD can mount partitions automatically at boot, some do. all it needs to do is scan the disk partition tables, create the mount points and mount them. Knoppix has been doing the first two for years, and writing the details to /etc/fstab to allow the user to mount them easily. -- Neil Bothwick A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portknock before Postfix delivery?
On 07/03/2011 09:31 PM, Pandu Poluan wrote: I'm just wondering... I'm implementing an email gateway using postfix. The gateway lives as a VM in my ISP, and it will deliver 'accepted' emails to the company's email server which lives in the DMZ. The email server's port is shifted to a non-25 external port number. So far so good. However, a portscanner might still be able to detect which port is open and attempt deliveries there. So, the question: Is it possible to configure the system in some way so that Postfix will first perform a portknocking before attempting delivery to the internal mail server? If that is not possible, what solution would you recommend to 'harden' the non-25 mail port? What defines an accepted email? If they will all be coming from one or more pre-defined hosts, just add them to mynetworks: mynetworks = whoever is allowed to send mail to you smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject If they could be coming from anywhere, you can either configure SASL (easier) or certificate-based authentication (harder). I suppose you could set up a VPN that lands them within $mynetworks, too.
Re: [gentoo-user] LVM filter question
David W Noon wrote: My best suggestion is to create a maximal primary partition as /dev/sdd1 and use that as your LUKS volume. That way, LVM will receive the partition details from udev and *might* not bother re-reading the partition table (but don't bet big bucks on it). OK, I tried that now with an external drive that also spins down after some minutes - hdparm -Y does not work for external drives it seems. I made a single partition /dev/sdj1 (BTW, what will happen if I add 17 more drives? and I run out of letters?), waited until the drive spun down, issued pvscan and whooosh, the drive is back. So it seems there is no solution, I think I just have to live with this. AFAIK spinning up and down often is not too bad for a drive nowadays, but some drives are 5 years old. All drives also spin up when I let Digikam retrieve photos from my camera. And it seems drives with mounted partitions also sometimes spin down then I delete files, but I cannot reproduce this right now. Strange. But this would be great, because it's annoying to let a drive spin up just because I delete a file somewhere. Thanks for your ideas David, too bad it didn't work. Wonko
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
That's IUSE, not USE. IUSE~=USE [1] Um, yes. It's what I wrote. [editing saved IUSE by hand] Please do not use such hacks I know it's a hack, and I was not recommending it as a general-purpose solution. use --changed-use to avoid a rebuild instead of --new-use like Neil suggested. This only works if you *permanently* switch to --changed-use, otherwise you'll just postpone things to next time you use --new-use. Anyway the change in the eclass was reverted, so everything is fine again. Except for those who were lucky enough to do a sync+rebuild before the change was reverted. I'm not complaining, really, just stating things. andrea
[gentoo-user] Need help : Compiling xe-guest-utilities (xenstore) from Source
Okay, I got the .rpm for Citrix's xe-guest-utilities from this thread: http://forums.citrix.com/message.jspa?messageID=1468339 Granted, it's slightly older than the latest version, but that's not my main problem. The problem is: How do I run a Config.mk file? Or am I looking at this from a wrong way? Any hints would be appreciated; my Google-fu has failed me. Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan More on me: My LinkedIn Account My Facebook Account
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Powering off Windows XP, crashing NTFS with a Live CD.
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:12:03 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: o - Do live CDs actually mount filesystems on HDDs? Only when you ask them to. I'm stupid. Of _course_ a live CD can't mount HDD filesystems at boot. To do this it would need /etc/fstab, for which it would need to be told the root partition. A live CD doesn't get this. A live CD can mount partitions automatically at boot, some do. all it needs to do is scan the disk partition tables, create the mount points and mount them. Knoppix has been doing the first two for years, and writing the details to /etc/fstab to allow the user to mount them easily. -- Neil Bothwick A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. And to further complicate it, many also use a similar technique for finding themselves, mounting one filesystem after another until they find some distinct marker file to identify where to find the rest of their data. Others auto-mount and poke around for auto-loading of extensions unless such features are disabled by a boot-time option. -- Joshua M. Murphy
[gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
Is there a way to determine the source URL of a package without actually emerging ? Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
2011/7/4 Andrea Conti a...@alyf.net: That's IUSE, not USE. IUSE~=USE [1] Um, yes. It's what I wrote. Just wanted to state that the use flags _have changed_ because of the IUSE=hardened injection in the eclass. The whole changeset itself has not effect for non hardened users but forcing a rebuild because of changed flags. I translate That's IUSE, not USE to IUSE!=USE With IUSE~=USE I wanted to say that it is somewhat the same. IUSE is a list of all USE flags including USE_EXPAND flags like video_cards_smth but not arch flags like x86 or amd64. Anyway if I do IUSE=FLAG in an eclass this flag will show up in any consumer of the eclass because it is cumulative and this forces a rebuild with --new-use. use --changed-use to avoid a rebuild instead of --new-use like Neil suggested. This only works if you *permanently* switch to --changed-use, otherwise you'll just postpone things to next time you use --new-use. I know I am not a fan of --changed-use myself thus I accepted the rebuild of openoffice,icedtea,thunderbird etc. and today I rebuild it again :) -- Regards, Daniel
Re: [gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
Is there a way to determine the source URL of a package without
actually emerging ?
Rgds,
--
Pandu E Poluan
Not sure what you mean by 'source URL' but you can get the homepage of
a package using eix. That almost always leads to some download link or
instructions where you can get the code.
mark@c2stable ~ $ eix gentoo-sources
[D] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources
Available versions:
(2.6.32-r29)2.6.32-r29!b!s
(2.6.32-r32)(~)2.6.32-r32!b!s
(2.6.35-r15)2.6.35-r15!b!s
(2.6.36-r8) 2.6.36-r8!b!s
(2.6.37-r4) 2.6.37-r4!b!s
(2.6.37-r6) (~)2.6.37-r6!b!s
(2.6.38-r6) 2.6.38-r6!b!s
(2.6.38-r7) (~)2.6.38-r7!b!s
(2.6.39-r1) (~)2.6.39-r1!b!s
(2.6.39-r2) (~)2.6.39-r2!b!s
{build deblob symlink}
Installed versions: 2.6.38-r1(2.6.38-r1)!b!s(12:06:40 PM
03/30/2011)(-build -deblob -symlink) 2.6.38-r4(2.6.38-r4)!b!s(02:58:45
PM 05/04/2011)(-build -deblob -symlink)
2.6.39-r2(2.6.39-r2)!b!s(09:59:02 AM 06/24/2011)(-build -deblob
-symlink)
Homepage:http://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches
Description: Full sources including the Gentoo patchset
for the 2.6 kernel tree
mark@c2stable ~ $
Re: [gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
I think he wants emerge -pf -- Jesús Guerrero Botella
Re: [gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 22:12, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
Is there a way to determine the source URL of a package without
actually emerging ?
Rgds,
--
Pandu E Poluan
Not sure what you mean by 'source URL' but you can get the homepage of
a package using eix. That almost always leads to some download link or
instructions where you can get the code.
mark@c2stable ~ $ eix gentoo-sources
[D] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources
Available versions:
(2.6.32-r29) 2.6.32-r29!b!s
(2.6.32-r32) (~)2.6.32-r32!b!s
(2.6.35-r15) 2.6.35-r15!b!s
(2.6.36-r8) 2.6.36-r8!b!s
(2.6.37-r4) 2.6.37-r4!b!s
(2.6.37-r6) (~)2.6.37-r6!b!s
(2.6.38-r6) 2.6.38-r6!b!s
(2.6.38-r7) (~)2.6.38-r7!b!s
(2.6.39-r1) (~)2.6.39-r1!b!s
(2.6.39-r2) (~)2.6.39-r2!b!s
{build deblob symlink}
Installed versions: 2.6.38-r1(2.6.38-r1)!b!s(12:06:40 PM
03/30/2011)(-build -deblob -symlink) 2.6.38-r4(2.6.38-r4)!b!s(02:58:45
PM 05/04/2011)(-build -deblob -symlink)
2.6.39-r2(2.6.39-r2)!b!s(09:59:02 AM 06/24/2011)(-build -deblob
-symlink)
Homepage: http://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches
Description: Full sources including the Gentoo patchset
for the 2.6 kernel tree
mark@c2stable ~ $
That I know. But it's still several clicks away until I get something like
http://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches/tarballs/genpatches-2.6.39-4.base.tar.bz2
emerge can build the full URL from information in the ebuild file. Can
I get that full URL?
Rgds,
--
Pandu E Poluan
~ IT Optimizer ~
Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com
Google Talk: pepoluan
Y! messenger: pepoluan
MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here)
Skype: pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
2011/7/4 Jesús J. Guerrero Botella jesus.guerrero.bote...@gmail.com: I think he wants emerge -pf -- Jesús Guerrero Botella Thank you! That's what I've been looking for :-) Rgds, -- Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ Visit my Blog: http://pepoluan.posterous.com Google Talk: pepoluan Y! messenger: pepoluan MSN / Live: pepol...@hotmail.com (do not send email here) Skype: pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Powering off Windows XP, crashing NTFS with a Live CD.
On Monday 04 Jul 2011 15:48:06 Joshua Murphy wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:12:03 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: o - Do live CDs actually mount filesystems on HDDs? Only when you ask them to. I'm stupid. Of _course_ a live CD can't mount HDD filesystems at boot. To do this it would need /etc/fstab, for which it would need to be told the root partition. A live CD doesn't get this. A live CD can mount partitions automatically at boot, some do. all it needs to do is scan the disk partition tables, create the mount points and mount them. Knoppix has been doing the first two for years, and writing the details to /etc/fstab to allow the user to mount them easily. -- Neil Bothwick A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. And to further complicate it, many also use a similar technique for finding themselves, mounting one filesystem after another until they find some distinct marker file to identify where to find the rest of their data. Others auto-mount and poke around for auto-loading of extensions unless such features are disabled by a boot-time option. I've only come across LiveCDs which scan the drive and create mount points - but not mount any device unless explicitly asked to do so by the user. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some more recent installation CDs go further than that, as Joshua claims. Joshua, which LiveCDs behave in the way you describe by automounting partitions and searching fs? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Get source URLs of packages?
On Monday 04 July 2011 21:57:39 Pandu Poluan did opine thusly: Is there a way to determine the source URL of a package without actually emerging ? SRC_URI in the ebuild -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT]: Powering off Windows XP, crashing NTFS with a Live CD.
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 Jul 2011 15:48:06 Joshua Murphy wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 12:12:03 +, Alan Mackenzie wrote: o - Do live CDs actually mount filesystems on HDDs? Only when you ask them to. I'm stupid. Of _course_ a live CD can't mount HDD filesystems at boot. To do this it would need /etc/fstab, for which it would need to be told the root partition. A live CD doesn't get this. A live CD can mount partitions automatically at boot, some do. all it needs to do is scan the disk partition tables, create the mount points and mount them. Knoppix has been doing the first two for years, and writing the details to /etc/fstab to allow the user to mount them easily. -- Neil Bothwick A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard. And to further complicate it, many also use a similar technique for finding themselves, mounting one filesystem after another until they find some distinct marker file to identify where to find the rest of their data. Others auto-mount and poke around for auto-loading of extensions unless such features are disabled by a boot-time option. I've only come across LiveCDs which scan the drive and create mount points - but not mount any device unless explicitly asked to do so by the user. However, I wouldn't be surprised if some more recent installation CDs go further than that, as Joshua claims. Joshua, which LiveCDs behave in the way you describe by automounting partitions and searching fs? -- Regards, Mick I haven't seen any install cds that do that, but DSL and, if I recall, TinyCore/MicroCore look for extensions in a default path on the local filesystems. One thing I'm fairly sure on, though, is that without the -f flag, mount won't take the risk on an unclean NTFS, and instead just tosses an are you sure? message, which would make me presume even those livecds that do look for extensions wouldn't risk the damage there. -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
On Monday 04 July 2011 14:47:47 Roman Zilka did opine thusly: Hi once again, am I missing something or are these bugs? If bugs, do you think I should file them through bugzilla? # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. So a routine world update says nothing needs to be done right now. # emerge -uN -D 100 --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. I expect this to be the same, it will halt after a depth of 100 (a gigantic depth just btw) # emerge -ep world .. shows mostly remerges, but also 6 new merges, for example sys-devel/autogen and virtual/pam. Shouldn't there be no new merges here? Let's re-check. # equery d virtual/pam * These packages depend on virtual/pam: net-mail/mailbase-1 (pam ? virtual/pam) net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/shadow-4.1.4.3 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-apps/xdm-1.1.10-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-misc/xlockmore-5.31 (pam ? virtual/pam) -ep is not the same as -avuND! The former is what happens if you tell portage to consider nothing to be merged yet. It will try and rebuild every possible thing you might ever need considering your setup. The latter is simply everything that needs to be done now. With that, build deps and virtuals can be omitted as they do not need to be rebuilt to satisfy the current emerge. Make sense? # emerge -pq virtual/pam [ebuild N] virtual/pam-0 # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y --autounmask y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # grep skype /var/lib/portage/world net-im/skype # emerge -p --autounmask y skype These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ~] net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 [2.1.0.81] USE=-hardened% The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed: #required by skype (argument) =net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 ~amd64 NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. # grep KEYWORDS /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.* /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.1.0.81.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.25.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.35-r1.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 .. Shouldn't 'emerge -uDN world' pull in skype-2.2.0.35-r1 too, as per the autounmask functionality? autounmask is not the same as autounmask-write, and neither means to automatically install the absolute latest version in the tree. The former will tell you what you need to do to satisfy deps, and the current stable skype might suit. You haven't unmasked skype and portage does not need to unmask anything to satisfy a world update. So it is quite happy leaving things as they are. If you want latest skype, you have two approaches: Keyword it manually, Run an unstable system. Portage will not all of it's own do anything to violate you ACCEPT_KEYWORDS setting - that one trumps everything when automation kicks in. In short, portage is working as designed and your understanding is faulty. I'm using latest stable portage for this - 2.1.10.3. ~arch is 2.1.10.4 and I haven't tried it, but its changelog doesn't suggest any changes in relevant areas. # cat /etc/portage/package.keywords =sys-boot/grub-1.97.1 ** =app-emulation/wine-1.3.15 ~amd64 # cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-boot/grub-1.0 # cat /etc/portage/package.use media-libs/libsdl joystick dev-python/PyQt4 webkit dev-libs/libxml2 python dev-lang/perl ithreads media-plugins/audacious-plugins scrobbler # emerge --info Portage 2.1.10.3 (default/linux/amd64/10.0/desktop, gcc-4.4.5, glibc-2.12.2-r0, 2.6.38-gentoo-r6 x86_64) = System uname: Linux-2.6.38-gentoo-r6-x86_64-AMD_Athlon-tm-_X2_Dual-Core_QL-65-wit h-gentoo-2.0.2 Timestamp of tree: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 18:15:01 + app-shells/bash: 4.1_p9 dev-lang/python: 2.7.1-r1, 3.1.3-r1 dev-util/cmake: 2.8.4-r1 dev-util/pkgconfig: 0.25-r2 sys-apps/baselayout: 2.0.2 sys-apps/openrc: 0.8.3-r1 sys-apps/sandbox: 2.4 sys-devel/autoconf: 2.68 sys-devel/automake: 1.9.6-r3, 1.11.1 sys-devel/binutils: 2.20.1-r1 sys-devel/gcc:4.4.5 sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.1-r1 sys-devel/libtool:2.2.10 sys-devel/make:
[gentoo-user] emerge --depclean wants to unmerge app-editors/nano (part of system)
Hi, I have this strange problem for a few days: after normal updates (I think glib has been updated) I tried to run emerge --depclean (as recommended) but got these messages: --- obelix ~ # emerge --depclean cut Calculating dependencies... done! Calculating removal order... !!! 'app-editors/nano' (virtual/editor) is part of your system profile. !!! Unmerging it may be damaging to your system. Waiting 10 seconds before starting... (Control-C to abort)... Press Ctrl-C to Stop in: 10 9 8 7 Exiting on signal 2 obelix ~ # --- So why does emerge --depclean want to unmerge app-editors/nano when it is part of system profile? I waited for a few days, resynced portage tree a few times, but problem still persists... Jarry -- ___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one. I have an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case. I could replace any of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may as well keep them if it's not. How do you know it's the motherboard and not the PSU for instance? You're right, but I want HDMI and USB 3.0 so I figure I may as well switch the motherboard and then the PSU if the problem doesn't disappear. The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea. The system is for HDMI is available on most (all?) modern graphics cards, not sure if built-ins have them though... USB 3 cards are also available. Yeah, a video card and USB card would cost roughly the same as a new motherboard and the video card would be a new source of heat and/or noise. playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever. If you're familiar Sounds like you want a htpc setup. I guess. Gentoo has been playing my music, movies, and TV for many years now. I use a wireless keyboard from the couch. Just a normal xfce4 desktop. It's great. with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far as a motherboard and other components? Any features a Gentoo'er should look for? Decide roughly (Intel/AMD chipsets, features, expansion capabilities etc.) on what motherboard you want and compare reviews of it... I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability. I know others swear by Nvidia graphics but personally I will not touch them (not for chipsets either due to lackluster/no open driver linux support)... it's AMD (formerly ATI) for me (just don't buy the latest, greatest unless you want to wait for open driver support, even though Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard. If necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I wait for drivers for the new one. - Grant they've seem to have picked up the pace). AMD does have some great fanless graphics cards, perfect for htpc... HTH Best regards Peter K
[gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Hi, Has anyone else had any hard lock ups in KDE? I'm on kde 4.6.4 which was released about a month ago. For those not in the know, I'm on amd64 and use kde-meta so it is has the kitchen sink installed here. What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may last a couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED's blink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried the SysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to the messages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mouse pointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset button which causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. Right now, I am in Fluxbox and it works fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuff and also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, it would have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did check temps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on full blast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in the kitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option for hp-systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmerge and test it tho, just to be sure. Anyone run into something like this? Ideas? Thanks much. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
Grant wrote: I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability. - Grant I can brag about my Gigabyte. When I was doing research on my newest rig, Gigabyte seemed to be the highest rated. As we know, that changes. When I built a rig several years ago, it was Abit. The only complaint I have with my Gigabyte is the RAM sockets are close to the CPU. If they were just a half inch farther over it would be awesome. My CPU cooler fan touched the top of the memory coolers and I got the shortest I could find at the time, that were worth having anyway. I think I had a ASUS before but can't recall since it was not one of my main rigs. I think it was in a rig I built for a friend of mine. His house burnt so no way to know for sure. It melted. :-( R.I.P. I wouldn't complain about it tho. It worked fine and was stable even during the Gentoo compiles. Most of this depends on what you want and what you can afford. I never get the latest greatest as it costs to much. You may want and can afford the latest greatest tho. I would just check out the reviews once you get down to a few mobos and see if any problems are reported. Making sure everything is Linux compatable is a good idea too. I got a link to a site of you don't already have one. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --depclean wants to unmerge app-editors/nano (part of system)
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have this strange problem for a few days: after normal updates (I think glib has been updated) I tried to run emerge --depclean (as recommended) but got these messages: --- obelix ~ # emerge --depclean cut Calculating dependencies... done! Calculating removal order... !!! 'app-editors/nano' (virtual/editor) is part of your system profile. !!! Unmerging it may be damaging to your system. Waiting 10 seconds before starting... (Control-C to abort)... Press Ctrl-C to Stop in: 10 9 8 7 Exiting on signal 2 obelix ~ # --- So why does emerge --depclean want to unmerge app-editors/nano when it is part of system profile? I waited for a few days, resynced portage tree a few times, but problem still persists... Jarry Hi Jarry, This was discussed awhile back. Check the archives for the complete thread. It was maybe a month ago. You won't cause any problems by removing nano although you won't be able to edit if that's the only editor on your system. I've done emerge -C nano for awhile. seen the same message when removing it, and then after that no problems. HTH, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge --depclean wants to unmerge app-editors/nano (part of system)
Do you have another editor installed? If yes, portage tell you a remotion of virtual/editor. Unless you won't take to remove nano, it's possible to put him in @world with this command: emerge --noreplace app-editors/nano. Andre Lucas 2011/7/4 Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com Hi, I have this strange problem for a few days: after normal updates (I think glib has been updated) I tried to run emerge --depclean (as recommended) but got these messages: --**- obelix ~ # emerge --depclean cut Calculating dependencies... done! Calculating removal order... !!! 'app-editors/nano' (virtual/editor) is part of your system profile. !!! Unmerging it may be damaging to your system. Waiting 10 seconds before starting... (Control-C to abort)... Press Ctrl-C to Stop in: 10 9 8 7 Exiting on signal 2 obelix ~ # --**- So why does emerge --depclean want to unmerge app-editors/nano when it is part of system profile? I waited for a few days, resynced portage tree a few times, but problem still persists... Jarry -- __**__**___ This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists! Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
2011/7/4 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com: Hi, What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may last a couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED's blink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried the SysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to the messages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mouse pointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset button which causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. You can never be sure about that. Right now, I am in Fluxbox and it works fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuff and also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, it would have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did check temps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on full blast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in the kitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. You can try turning off the compositing system altogether. You can do that by disabling the desktop effects in systemsettings. If lockups stop then it's probably something to do with your graphics driver and if that's the case you might have better luck with an alternative driver. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option for hp-systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmerge and test it tho, just to be sure. I don't think so. -- Jesús Guerrero Botella
RE: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
-original message-
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
From: Grant emailgr...@gmail.com
Date: 2011-07-04 23:30
How do you know it's the motherboard and not the PSU for instance?
You're right, but I want HDMI and USB 3.0 so I figure I may as well
switch the motherboard and then the PSU if the problem doesn't
disappear.
The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I
also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea. The system is for
HDMI is available on most (all?) modern graphics cards, not sure if
built-ins have them though... USB 3 cards are also available.
Yeah, a video card and USB card would cost roughly the same as a new
motherboard and the video card would be a new source of heat and/or
noise.
playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever. If you're familiar
Sounds like you want a htpc setup.
I guess. Gentoo has been playing my music, movies, and TV for many
years now. I use a wireless keyboard from the couch. Just a normal
xfce4 desktop. It's great.
with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far
as a motherboard and other components? Any features a Gentoo'er
should look for?
Decide roughly (Intel/AMD chipsets, features, expansion capabilities
etc.) on what motherboard you want and compare reviews of it...
I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability.
Not in my country; I've seen waaay too many Asus mobo's died mysteriously, with
or without fanfare.
Then again, Asus might've specifically targeted lower-quality mobo's for my
country *sigh*
But I have heard nothing but praise re: Gigabyte mobo's.
I know others swear by Nvidia graphics but personally I will not touch
them (not for chipsets either due to lackluster/no open driver linux
support)... it's AMD (formerly ATI) for me (just don't buy the latest,
greatest unless you want to wait for open driver support, even though
Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard. If
necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I
wait for drivers for the new one.
Or, don't aim for the moon, and just buy last quarter's best (or 2nd best)
graphics card :)
Unless you want to play a 60fps 3D-enabled game on a 1080p display, I think
yesteryear's best cards are already A-OK.
Rgds,
--
FdS Pandu E Poluan
~ IT Optimizer ~
Sent from Nokia E72-1
[gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org writes: On Sunday, July 3 at 22:07 (-0500), Harry Putnam said: this is a no X machine... it appears at the cited URL they expect you to be running xorg. KMS doesn't require X, but Xorg can use it. Basically Xorg can let the kernel handle graphics mode setting and gets out of the way. But KMS doesn't require X. The link I provided shows how to enable KMS. it just happens to be in part of the Xorg docs. Are you saying it does not require `xorg-x11'. Step 2) says in large type: `2. Installing Xorg' Then a big note in a green box later on says: , | Note: You could install the xorg-x11 metapackage instead of the more | lightweight xorg-server. Functionally, xorg-x11 and xorg-server are | the same. However, xorg-x11 brings in many more packages that you | probably don't need, such as a huge assortment of fonts in many | different languages. They're not necessary for a working desktop. ` So I'm a little confused. ---- ---=--- - The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel
[gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
cov...@ccs.covici.com writes: I've been able to do this for years using VESA. I use uvesafb and it works without X -- I get 60x164, depending on the resolution your mileage may vary. If it done in the kernel line of grub.conf? I realize it must be enabled in kernel and I have done that. If it involves grub.conf, would you mind posting what you have in there?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: Albert Hopkins mar...@letterboxes.org writes: On Sunday, July 3 at 22:07 (-0500), Harry Putnam said: this is a no X machine... it appears at the cited URL they expect you to be running xorg. KMS doesn't require X, but Xorg can use it. Basically Xorg can let the kernel handle graphics mode setting and gets out of the way. But KMS doesn't require X. The link I provided shows how to enable KMS. it just happens to be in part of the Xorg docs. Are you saying it does not require `xorg-x11'. Step 2) says in large type: `2. Installing Xorg' Then a big note in a green box later on says: , | Note: You could install the xorg-x11 metapackage instead of the more | lightweight xorg-server. Functionally, xorg-x11 and xorg-server are | the same. However, xorg-x11 brings in many more packages that you | probably don't need, such as a huge assortment of fonts in many | different languages. They're not necessary for a working desktop. ` So I'm a little confused. --- - ---=--- - The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel I'm a little confused by his post also, but I've never run a machine without Xorg so maybe it's a technical point. With a framebuffer I believe you can get a boot screen like the Install CD - a bunch of little Tux's across the top - so you're doing graphics at that point but you're not running X? I was curious about this topic awhile back wondering if you could run a Gentoo VM with only a framebuffer and get any graphics at all, or is it just that the framebuffer is used to give you more control over the console font/height/width selection. (I've never run a framebuffer, if that's not obvious!) ;-) - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
Harry Putnam rea...@newsguy.com wrote: cov...@ccs.covici.com writes: I've been able to do this for years using VESA. I use uvesafb and it works without X -- I get 60x164, depending on the resolution your mileage may vary. If it done in the kernel line of grub.conf? I realize it must be enabled in kernel and I have done that. If it involves grub.conf, would you mind posting what you have in there? Add the following to your line: video=uvesafb:1280x1024 vmalloc=256M Change the numbers to meet your screen resolution. For this to work you need uvesafb to be built in to the kernel -- at least that is the way it worked for me. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Jesús J. Guerrero Botella wrote: 2011/7/4 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com: Hi, What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may last a couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED's blink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried the SysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to the messages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mouse pointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset button which causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. You can never be sure about that. That's why I said fairly. One can never be sure but after some testing, I don't think it is hardware. I'm getting more sure of that as time goes on too. ;-) Right now, I am in Fluxbox and it works fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuff and also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, it would have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did check temps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on full blast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in the kitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. You can try turning off the compositing system altogether. You can do that by disabling the desktop effects in systemsettings. If lockups stop then it's probably something to do with your graphics driver and if that's the case you might have better luck with an alternative driver. I don't think I am logged in long enough to change the settings. I may try my test user but I think a file got corrupted or something. I did have a power failure the other day and the relay on my UPS was not quite fast enough. I think the contacts may need some cleaning. My UPS does some odd things at times. I need a new one but they are pricey. I had forgot about the power failure issue. That has lead me down a different path now. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option for hp-systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmerge and test it tho, just to be sure. I don't think so. I have seen this cause my desktop to freeze before. Usually when it has trouble seeing the printer or starting itself then kills itself after a few seconds. Once it dies, the desktop comes back. This is just a more permanent freeze. I did wait a couple times but it never come back. Working on a re-emerge to see if it corrects this issue. Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On 07/04/2011 09:10 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Albert Hopkinsmar...@letterboxes.org writes: On Sunday, July 3 at 22:07 (-0500), Harry Putnam said: this is a no X machine... it appears at the cited URL they expect you to be running xorg. KMS doesn't require X, but Xorg can use it. Basically Xorg can let the kernel handle graphics mode setting and gets out of the way. Are you saying it does not require `xorg-x11'. Step 2) says in large type: `2. Installing Xorg' Then a big note in a green box later on says: , | Note: You could install the xorg-x11 metapackage instead of the more | lightweight xorg-server. Functionally, xorg-x11 and xorg-server are | the same. However, xorg-x11 brings in many more packages that you | probably don't need, such as a huge assortment of fonts in many | different languages. They're not necessary for a working desktop. ` So I'm a little confused. The guide deals with how to make X.Org use KMS. That does not mean that KMS requires X. For your X-less machine, all you need to do is enable the driver for your card in the kernel config, and make sure to also enable KMS. You need to disable the VESA/uvesafb drivers to avoid conflicts. What graphics card do you have, btw?
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
On 2011-07-04 18:30, Grant wrote: I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability. For consumer oriented motherboards, I feel the same. Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard. If necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I wait for drivers for the new one. Have you decided on a AM3+ socket motherboard or would you consider alternatives? If AMD floats your boat, wait a while until the Llanos comes out[1]; an 4 core APU with integrated graphics core at 65W... Of course you need to get a motherboard that support HDMI out... but for a Gentoo htpc that would be a perfect balance between compiling power and low power utilisation, no? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Fusion_microprocessors#Llano Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Monday, July 4 at 13:10 (-0500), Harry Putnam said: Are you saying it does not require `xorg-x11'. Step 2) says in large type: `2. Installing Xorg' Then a big note in a green box later on says: , | Note: You could install the xorg-x11 metapackage instead of the more | lightweight xorg-server. Functionally, xorg-x11 and xorg-server are | the same. However, xorg-x11 brings in many more packages that you | probably don't need, such as a huge assortment of fonts in many | different languages. They're not necessary for a working desktop. ` So I'm a little confused. Perhaps pointing to the xorg documentation was a mistake. I only pointed there because it had instructions on setting up KMS. KMS (kernel mode setting) does not require X. It gives the kernel the ability to set the modes of your graphics cards, more efficiently and usually beyond the capabilities of what the *vesa drivers can do. Perhaps a better, non X-centered explanation of what KMS is can be found here [1]. Regardless, KMS is the newer, better, what-all-the-cool-kids-are-doinger way to what we've traditionally called framebuffer console. It also helps with X, especially switching between console and Xorg (faster and more seamless). It also gives you some xrandr-like abilities for the console. E.g. my laptop does native 1366x768 but does not support that vesa mode (it's not in the VESA standard afaik). But KMS can set that mode without me even having to specify it.[2] Anyway some proprietary X drivers (I've heard) don't support KMS (some still don't even support xrandr), but if you are not running Xorg then that may not be applicable to you anyway. [1] http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_29#head-e1bab8dc862e3b477cc38d87e8ddc779a66509d1 [2] http://ompldr.org/vOWN0cg/kms.png
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
I'm reading that ASUS and Gigabyte are the way to go for reliability. For consumer oriented motherboards, I feel the same. Yeah I'm a little worried about that with the motherboard. If necessary I can keep limping along with my current motherboard while I wait for drivers for the new one. Have you decided on a AM3+ socket motherboard or would you consider alternatives? If AMD floats your boat, wait a while until the Llanos comes out[1]; an 4 core APU with integrated graphics core at 65W... Of course you need to get a motherboard that support HDMI out... but for a Gentoo htpc that would be a perfect balance between compiling power and low power utilisation, no? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_Fusion_microprocessors#Llano Best regards Peter K That's the FM1 socket, right? I only see two FM1 CPUs on newegg.com right now. They're quad-core and 100W. I guess the advantage there is they have graphics on the CPU. A 65W CPU would be better but when it comes out I suppose. - Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
On Monday 04 July 2011 19:12:50 Jesús J. Guerrero Botella did opine thusly: 2011/7/4 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com: Hi, What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may last a couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED's blink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried the SysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to the messages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mouse pointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset button which causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. You can never be sure about that. Right now, I am in Fluxbox and it works fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuff and also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, it would have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did check temps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on full blast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in the kitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. You can try turning off the compositing system altogether. You can do that by disabling the desktop effects in systemsettings. If lockups stop then it's probably something to do with your graphics driver and if that's the case you might have better luck with an alternative driver. I get frequent crashes that seem to be related to nouveau. When I used nvidia drivers, they seemed to have a mind of their own when it came to memory usage and segfaults. And the entire abomination that shall not be suffered to live called kdepim *definitely* has a mind of it's own. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option for hp-systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmerge and test it tho, just to be sure. I don't think so. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: Managing multiple Gentoo systems
On Sat, Jul 02, 2011 at 03:14:38PM -0700, Grant wrote: After a frustrating experience with a Linksys WRT54GL, I've decided to stick with Gentoo routers. This increases the number of Gentoo systems I'm responsible for and they're nearing double-digits. What can be done to make the management of multiple Gentoo systems easier? I think identical hardware in each system would help a lot but I'm not sure that's practical. I need to put together a bunch of new workstations and I'm thinking some sort of server/client arrangement with the only Gentoo install being on the server could be appropriate. I maintain multiple Gentoo we mostly use as KVM hosts systems (and coming embedded routers). As KVM hosts, some of them are very sensible. Due to the contracts to our customers, I have to do with various update strategies on top of various hardware. I've set up a private Gentoo mirror in order to follow updates nicely (all customers want to update slowly). Well, it's not a true mirror. To be able to upgrade old systems, I do private releases of Gentoo approximately once a month. A full mirror of all releases would be too much data. So, I only fetch portage tree and packages from a list I maintain manually (emerge sucks at that game, by the way). Data is stored on a nilfs filesystem to improve snapshots size on disk. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Monday 04 July 2011 11:20:43 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel I'm a little confused by his post also, but I've never run a machine without Xorg so maybe it's a technical point. With a framebuffer I believe you can get a boot screen like the Install CD - a bunch of little Tux's across the top - so you're doing graphics at that point but you're not running X? I was curious about this topic awhile back wondering if you could run a Gentoo VM with only a framebuffer and get any graphics at all, or is it just that the framebuffer is used to give you more control over the console font/height/width selection. (I've never run a framebuffer, if that's not obvious!) bootsplash does not run under X (well, on redhat it used to, but you really don't want to go there) - this should be obvious as you don't see the X start-up sequence happening at early boot time. There are many things boot splash could use for displaying images (fbcon etc etc) or even something of it's own invention. I'm not familiar enough with it to say how it really does it. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 11:20:43 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel I'm a little confused by his post also, but I've never run a machine without Xorg so maybe it's a technical point. With a framebuffer I believe you can get a boot screen like the Install CD - a bunch of little Tux's across the top - so you're doing graphics at that point but you're not running X? I was curious about this topic awhile back wondering if you could run a Gentoo VM with only a framebuffer and get any graphics at all, or is it just that the framebuffer is used to give you more control over the console font/height/width selection. (I've never run a framebuffer, if that's not obvious!) bootsplash does not run under X (well, on redhat it used to, but you really don't want to go there) - this should be obvious as you don't see the X start-up sequence happening at early boot time. There are many things boot splash could use for displaying images (fbcon etc etc) or even something of it's own invention. I'm not familiar enough with it to say how it really does it. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com so does bootsplash run using framebuffer or is it completely different? - Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
On Monday 04 July 2011 11:48:51 Dale wrote: Hi, Has anyone else had any hard lock ups in KDE? I'm on kde 4.6.4 whichwas released about a month ago. For those not in the know, I'm on amd64and use kde-meta so it is has the kitchen sink installed here. What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may lasta couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED'sblink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried theSysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to themessages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mousepointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset buttonwhich causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. Right now, I am in Fluxbox and itworks fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuffand also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, itwould have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did checktemps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on fullblast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in thekitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option forhp- systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmergeand test it tho, just to be sure. Anyone run into something like this? Ideas? Thanks much. Dale :-) :-) I only had lockups thanks to USB which haven't occured since I switched to 2.6.39.2 -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Alan McKinnon (Mon, 04 Jul 2011 18:24:54 +0200): On Monday 04 July 2011 14:47:47 Roman Zilka did opine thusly: Hi once again, am I missing something or are these bugs? If bugs, do you think I should file them through bugzilla? # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. So a routine world update says nothing needs to be done right now. # emerge -uN -D 100 --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. I expect this to be the same, it will halt after a depth of 100 (a gigantic depth just btw) # emerge -ep world .. shows mostly remerges, but also 6 new merges, for example sys-devel/autogen and virtual/pam. Shouldn't there be no new merges here? Let's re-check. # equery d virtual/pam * These packages depend on virtual/pam: net-mail/mailbase-1 (pam ? virtual/pam) net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/shadow-4.1.4.3 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-apps/xdm-1.1.10-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-misc/xlockmore-5.31 (pam ? virtual/pam) # emerge -pq virtual/pam [ebuild N] virtual/pam-0 -ep is not the same as -avuND! The former is what happens if you tell portage to consider nothing to be merged yet. It will try and rebuild every possible thing you might ever need considering your setup. The latter is simply everything that needs to be done now. With that, build deps and virtuals can be omitted as they do not need to be rebuilt to satisfy the current emerge. Make sense? Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). But it's neither in my world file, nor in my system set (checked with 'emerge -epO system'). So it must be a dependency. Then why doesn't '-uDN --with-bdeps y world' demand it? Obviously, virtual/pam is listed as necessary for running or building something in my world set. '-uDN world' shouldn't omit merging something I need to run my packages. And with '--with-bdeps y' it also shouldn't omit merging something I might ever need to build these packages. The quoted equery call shows that virtual/pam is needed to run 7 pieces of software in my world. (I understand it's not literally needed for them to run, but that's the semantics of runtime deps and portage has no way to know the difference, I suppose.) And it's not an alternative to another possible dependency - it must be virtual/pam (checked some of the ebuilds). Even if it's all correct behavior, I'd still like to know where exactly is the robber on my train of thoughts. # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y --autounmask y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # grep skype /var/lib/portage/world net-im/skype # emerge -p --autounmask y skype These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ~] net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 [2.1.0.81] USE=-hardened% The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed: #required by skype (argument) =net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 ~amd64 NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. # grep KEYWORDS /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.* /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.1.0.81.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.25.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.35-r1.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~x86 .. Shouldn't 'emerge -uDN world' pull in skype-2.2.0.35-r1 too, as per the autounmask functionality? autounmask is not the same as autounmask-write, and neither means to automatically install the absolute latest version in the tree. The former will tell you what you need to do to satisfy deps, and the current stable skype might suit. You haven't unmasked skype and portage does not need to unmask anything to satisfy a world update. So it is quite happy leaving things as they are. If you want latest skype, you have two approaches: Keyword it manually, Run an unstable system. Portage will not all of it's own do anything to violate you ACCEPT_KEYWORDS setting - that one trumps everything when automation kicks in. In short, portage is working as designed and your understanding is
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Monday 04 July 2011 13:47:28 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 11:20:43 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel I'm a little confused by his post also, but I've never run a machine without Xorg so maybe it's a technical point. With a framebuffer I believe you can get a boot screen like the Install CD - a bunch of little Tux's across the top - so you're doing graphics at that point but you're not running X? I was curious about this topic awhile back wondering if you could run a Gentoo VM with only a framebuffer and get any graphics at all, or is it just that the framebuffer is used to give you more control over the console font/height/width selection. (I've never run a framebuffer, if that's not obvious!) bootsplash does not run under X (well, on redhat it used to, but you really don't want to go there) - this should be obvious as you don't see the X start-up sequence happening at early boot time. There are many things boot splash could use for displaying images (fbcon etc etc) or even something of it's own invention. I'm not familiar enough with it to say how it really does it. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com so does bootsplash run using framebuffer or is it completely different? I have no idea actually. I could say it must run in a framebuffer-like abstraction but that is obvious and doesn't tell you anything you don't already know. Spock is the dev that knows most about these things, a good first research point would be to search his name and find related docs. Sorry I can't be more help - I have the concepts in my head but not the facts -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 19:12:50 Jesús J. Guerrero Botella did opine thusly: 2011/7/4 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com: Hi, What mine does: It sort of varies but usually when I login, it may last a couple minutes, usually less, then the Caps Lock and Scroll Lock LED's blink. The Num Lock key is off if that means anything. I tried the SysReq keys but it doesn't do anything at all. According to the messages at the next boot, it doesn't sync or umount either. The mouse pointer no longer moves either. At this point, I hit the reset button which causes steam to come out my ears. I HATE using that button. I'm fairly sure this is not hardware. You can never be sure about that. Right now, I am in Fluxbox and it works fine. I also booted to single user and compiled a bunch of stuff and also tried a different kernel too. I think if it was hardware, it would have had some kind of hick-up during the compile. I did check temps and all is nice and cool, very cool since my A/C is on full blast. I think the oven is outside on full blast instead of in the kitchen. lol It's HOT here, steamy hot. You can try turning off the compositing system altogether. You can do that by disabling the desktop effects in systemsettings. If lockups stop then it's probably something to do with your graphics driver and if that's the case you might have better luck with an alternative driver. I get frequent crashes that seem to be related to nouveau. When I used nvidia drivers, they seemed to have a mind of their own when it came to memory usage and segfaults. And the entire abomination that shall not be suffered to live called kdepim *definitely* has a mind of it's own. I checked messages and the only thing I saw was about a bad option for hp-systray. Surely that wouldn't cause a crash? I'm going to unmerge and test it tho, just to be sure. I don't think so. Well, I tried a different kernel. Same thing. I tried reseting the BIOS and lurking around in there for a bit as well. Same thing. So, right now I'm chewing on a emerge -e kde-meta. After I remembered the power failure the other day, I suspect a corrupt file somewhere. I'm just glad I have Fluxbox on here. I'm in it right now and it works OK. I just wish the little bar at the bottom was larger. So far, nothing I click changes that. Tough on my eyes too. Teeny tiny stuff down there. o_o Thinking back, I should have booted the CD and run file system checks. Crap, the one thing I didn't think of. sighs I still use Nvidia's driver here. it has worked well for me at least. I don't use any fancy hardware or play any serious games so it works well, so far at least. That may change next week. lol You know me. Something new pretty regular. I don't guess I use kdepim stuff. It's installed so who knows. Any relation to pam? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
On Monday 04 July 2011 22:48:44 Roman Zilka did opine thusly: Alan McKinnon (Mon, 04 Jul 2011 18:24:54 +0200): On Monday 04 July 2011 14:47:47 Roman Zilka did opine thusly: Hi once again, am I missing something or are these bugs? If bugs, do you think I should file them through bugzilla? # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. So a routine world update says nothing needs to be done right now. # emerge -uN -D 100 --with-bdeps y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. I expect this to be the same, it will halt after a depth of 100 (a gigantic depth just btw) # emerge -ep world .. shows mostly remerges, but also 6 new merges, for example sys-devel/autogen and virtual/pam. Shouldn't there be no new merges here? Let's re-check. # equery d virtual/pam * These packages depend on virtual/pam: net-mail/mailbase-1 (pam ? virtual/pam) net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/openrc-0.8.3-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-apps/shadow-4.1.4.3 (pam ? virtual/pam) sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-apps/xdm-1.1.10-r1 (pam ? virtual/pam) x11-misc/xlockmore-5.31 (pam ? virtual/pam) # emerge -pq virtual/pam [ebuild N] virtual/pam-0 -ep is not the same as -avuND! The former is what happens if you tell portage to consider nothing to be merged yet. It will try and rebuild every possible thing you might ever need considering your setup. The latter is simply everything that needs to be done now. With that, build deps and virtuals can be omitted as they do not need to be rebuilt to satisfy the current emerge. Make sense? Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). But it's neither in my world file, nor in my system set (checked with 'emerge -epO system'). So it must be a dependency. Then why doesn't '-uDN --with-bdeps y world' demand it? Obviously, virtual/pam is listed as necessary for running or building something in my world set. '-uDN world' shouldn't omit merging something I need to run my packages. And with '--with-bdeps y' it also shouldn't omit merging something I might ever need to build these packages. The quoted equery call shows that virtual/pam is needed to run 7 pieces of software in my world. (I understand it's not literally needed for them to run, but that's the semantics of runtime deps and portage has no way to know the difference, I suppose.) And it's not an alternative to another possible dependency - it must be virtual/pam (checked some of the ebuilds). I think this is the root cause of your questions. You say portage has no way to know the difference - who says that is true? Did you assume it? Why should virtual packages behave like regular packages? They are even in a different category to everything else. Treating virtuals just like regular packages doesn't make sense to me. Treating them as variables does make sense - they get expanded into lists of possibilities and when the graph is resolved, the existence of the virtual goes away. But that is speculation on my part. I think if you get an authoritative answer to that question, then we can continue to examine the behaviour. Otherwise we are just guessing. Even if it's all correct behavior, I'd still like to know where exactly is the robber on my train of thoughts. # emerge -uDN --with-bdeps y --autounmask y world Calculating dependencies... done! Auto-cleaning packages... No outdated packages were found on your system. # grep skype /var/lib/portage/world net-im/skype # emerge -p --autounmask y skype These are the packages that would be merged, in order: Calculating dependencies... done! [ebuild U ~] net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 [2.1.0.81] USE=-hardened% The following keyword changes are necessary to proceed: #required by skype (argument) =net-im/skype-2.2.0.35-r1 ~amd64 NOTE: This --autounmask behavior can be disabled by setting EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--autounmask=n in make.conf. # grep KEYWORDS /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.* /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.1.0.81.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~a md64 ~x86 /usr/portage/net-im/skype/skype-2.2.0.25.ebuild:KEYWORDS=~a md64 ~x86
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. -- Neil Bothwick I'm not opinionated, I'm just always right! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 13:47:28 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 11:20:43 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: The way I've been doing this only required `vesa' or `uvesa' and some special kernel line stuff. None of the X related stuff is necessary. From covici's post... I think I may need to say uvesa where I've been saying vesa. I'm going to try that some time today. Its already enabled in my kernel I'm a little confused by his post also, but I've never run a machine without Xorg so maybe it's a technical point. With a framebuffer I believe you can get a boot screen like the Install CD - a bunch of little Tux's across the top - so you're doing graphics at that point but you're not running X? I was curious about this topic awhile back wondering if you could run a Gentoo VM with only a framebuffer and get any graphics at all, or is it just that the framebuffer is used to give you more control over the console font/height/width selection. (I've never run a framebuffer, if that's not obvious!) bootsplash does not run under X (well, on redhat it used to, but you really don't want to go there) - this should be obvious as you don't see the X start-up sequence happening at early boot time. There are many things boot splash could use for displaying images (fbcon etc etc) or even something of it's own invention. I'm not familiar enough with it to say how it really does it. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com so does bootsplash run using framebuffer or is it completely different? I have no idea actually. I could say it must run in a framebuffer-like abstraction but that is obvious and doesn't tell you anything you don't already know. Spock is the dev that knows most about these things, a good first research point would be to search his name and find related docs. Sorry I can't be more help - I have the concepts in my head but not the facts I appreciate the info. No worries about that. I think the other point I'm missing here is whether KMS is actually implementing anything graphical, like a framebuffer, or whether it's just moving _choices_ about graphics into the kernel and out of X? I have an Intel i5-661/Intel MB based machine which is the only one I use KMS for at this time. On that machine I was instructed to use KMS by the Intel-Gfx devs to get their driver working at all. A nice side benefit was that it resulted in better text in the console during boot. However I don't see anything 'graphics like' on that box just using KMS so I suspect that while I've enabled technology that allows the kernel to manage graphics that I haven't told the kernel to actually do so. I don't know though. All of my other machines are NVidia based and use the closed source driver so my understanding on those is that KMS doesn't apply. I'm curious, however, about my Gentoo VMs. Can KMS run on a VM's kernel and do anything useful there? This is more for learning and not about any practical need at this time. Cheers, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] What's up with the hardened USE flag?
On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:57:55 +0200, Daniel Pielmeier wrote:
use --changed-use to avoid a rebuild
instead of --new-use like Neil suggested.
This only works if you *permanently* switch to --changed-use, otherwise
you'll just postpone things to next time you use --new-use.
I haven't used --new-use for years. What's the point of rebuilding
packages just because irrelevant USE flags have changed?
I know I am not a fan of --changed-use myself
Why not? I see no downside to it but I'm willing to be educated.
--
Neil Bothwick
... if (pot.coffee == EMPTY) { programmer-brain = OFF };
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Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Neil Bothwick (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:16:18 +0100): On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. I checked that - in this case, there are no alternatives. -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Monday 04 July 2011 14:15:12 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 13:47:28 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Alan McKinnon so does bootsplash run using framebuffer or is it completely different? I have no idea actually. I could say it must run in a framebuffer-like abstraction but that is obvious and doesn't tell you anything you don't already know. Spock is the dev that knows most about these things, a good first research point would be to search his name and find related docs. Sorry I can't be more help - I have the concepts in my head but not the facts I appreciate the info. No worries about that. I think the other point I'm missing here is whether KMS is actually implementing anything graphical, like a framebuffer, or whether it's just moving _choices_ about graphics into the kernel and out of X? By definition a framebuffer is a chunk of memory, and my understanding is that KMS does implement one (nouveau definitely provides a framebuffer, and it conflicts with all other framebuffers - you can't have more than one in the kernel at all). The clue is in the name: Kernel Mode Switching. It deals with all the low-level commands to set modes in the graphics card so that X doesn't have to do it itself. I have an Intel i5-661/Intel MB based machine which is the only one I use KMS for at this time. On that machine I was instructed to use KMS by the Intel-Gfx devs to get their driver working at all. A nice side benefit was that it resulted in better text in the console during boot. However I don't see anything 'graphics like' on that box just using KMS so I suspect that while I've enabled technology that allows the kernel to manage graphics that I haven't told the kernel to actually do so. I don't know though. When you speak of graphics in the context of framebuffers and consoles, it's better to think in terms of able to do what graphics does i.e. address a gigantic number of pixels individually. The fact that you are not running any software capable of rendering graphics doesn't reduce the fact that the means to do is there. All of my other machines are NVidia based and use the closed source driver so my understanding on those is that KMS doesn't apply. Yes, that's true. nVidia does it's own bizarre weird stuff that will forever more be incompatible with the entire free software world sigh I'm curious, however, about my Gentoo VMs. Can KMS run on a VM's kernel and do anything useful there? This is more for learning and not about any practical need at this time. From my understanding, this topic gets yucky. There's a whole bunch of ways this could be done, from software emulation to para- virtualization to full virtualization. Emulation is easy - KMS in the guest sees what looks for all the world like hardware so everything works if KMS supports the emulated card (albeit slowly). For everything else, you'd need kernel drivers intercepting efforts to talk to the hardware and be traffic cop. My brain is already spinning on this so please excuse me while I go dunk my head in a bucket and not think about it anymore :-) Cheers, Mark -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
[gentoo-user] Re: What's up with the hardened USE flag?
On 07/05/2011 12:23 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 16:57:55 +0200, Daniel Pielmeier wrote: use --changed-use to avoid a rebuild instead of --new-use like Neil suggested. This only works if you *permanently* switch to --changed-use, otherwise you'll just postpone things to next time you use --new-use. I haven't used --new-use for years. What's the point of rebuilding packages just because irrelevant USE flags have changed? I know I am not a fan of --changed-use myself Why not? I see no downside to it but I'm willing to be educated. Imagine this: A package is built by default with Gtk as well as with Qt support. There is no USE flag which would omit building with one of those. Then, the ebuild developer introduces those USE flags. --changed-use will not catch this, so you will continue having both Gtk and Qt support in the package, even though you're interested only in one of them (Gnome vs KDE user, for example). Or, imagine another scenario. A package offers multithreading support, resulting in a huge speed-up on machines with more than one core or CPU. But the ebuild configures and builds the package without multithreading, and there's no USE flag. When the ebuild dev puts a USE flag in there (and probably turns it on by default), --changed-use will also not catch this, because it's not a USE flag that changed, but instead a new one that wasn't there before. So you will continue running the package in its slow built, missing out on the big performance gain. I guess this is why people don't use --changed-use. It won't catch cases like the above.
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Roman Zilka (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 23:34:01 +0200): Neil Bothwick (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:16:18 +0100): On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. I checked that - in this case, there are no alternatives. Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking enough. Yeah, virtual/pam may be one of a list. But if nothing else, I have openssh and openssh says: RDEPEND=pam? ( virtual/pam ) No alternatives there. And I don't have virtual/pam, but do have openssh. So why does '-uDN world' not pull virtual/pam in? -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
2011/7/4 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com: I don't think I am logged in long enough to change the settings. I may try my test user but I think a file got corrupted or something. I did have a power failure the other day and the relay on my UPS was not quite fast enough. I think the contacts may need some cleaning. My UPS does some odd things at times. I need a new one but they are pricey. I had forgot about the power failure issue. That has lead me down a different path now. You don't need much time. The default shortcut to disable compositing in kde is shift+alt+f12 You can try the vesa driver, or any alternative that will work with your card, as well. I also had the usb issue that others said above, with previous kernel versions. I haven't seen it lately though, with 2.6.39.x. -- Jesús Guerrero Botella
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). But it's neither in my world file, nor in my system set (checked with 'emerge -epO system'). So it must be a dependency. Then why doesn't '-uDN --with-bdeps y world' demand it? Obviously, virtual/pam is listed as necessary for running or building something in my world set. '-uDN world' shouldn't omit merging something I need to run my packages. And with '--with-bdeps y' it also shouldn't omit merging something I might ever need to build these packages. The quoted equery call shows that virtual/pam is needed to run 7 pieces of software in my world. (I understand it's not literally needed for them to run, but that's the semantics of runtime deps and portage has no way to know the difference, I suppose.) And it's not an alternative to another possible dependency - it must be virtual/pam (checked some of the ebuilds). I think this is the root cause of your questions. You say portage has no way to know the difference - who says that is true? Did you assume it? It sure is possible. I assumed what I did because the ebuild of a virtual and a normal package reveal no differences relevant to this, as it seems to me with my level of knowledge. Also, asking for a virtual as a runtime dep is done in the same way as asking for any other package. Furthermore, the manpage for emerge says nothing about the virtuals being different w.r.t. --update or any other option. Why should virtual packages behave like regular packages? They are even in a different category to everything else. Treating virtuals just like regular packages doesn't make sense to me. Treating them as variables does make sense - they get expanded into lists of possibilities and when the graph is resolved, the existence of the virtual goes away. But that is speculation on my part. Why do we have so many virtuals installed then? But yeah, who knows... I think if you get an authoritative answer to that question, then we can continue to examine the behaviour. Otherwise we are just guessing. It seems that you assume that my current skype is a stable version. In fact, it isn't - see the quoted grep of the ebuilds. There is not a single stable version of skype in portage now. They're all ~arch. My ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=amd64. 'emerge skype' (I'll be omitting the '--autounmask y', it's the default anyway) wants to upgrade from my current 2.1.0.81 ~skype to 2.2.0.35-r1, which happens to be the latest available ~skype. I assume that's the strategy: if there's no stable version available, at least get the latest ~arch version. That's fine. But why doesn't the same strategy apply for a '-uDN world'? The manpage says nothing about this, as my eyes interepret it. There might be some unintended hidden behavior of --autounmask or --update or something else. If it's intended, I'd still like to understand the reasoning - just to get what's going on. You'd have to ask Zac what he intended. I can easily see the code being written such that emerging a package and updating world use completely different code paths, simply because they must evaluate things differently with subtle differences. You'd really have to read the code to get proper answers to your questions. As we say in the eXtreme Programming world: The code IS the design. Well, I'm not going into the code. Do you think it's meaningful to either bring these two issues into attention of Zac directly, or file official bugs? I've never done either and lack experience on determining when is the right time.:) Neither of the two issues cause any visible harm in the system as a whole - it's not like I'm not sleeping because of them. I stumbled upon them by mere chance. I'm just trying to reveal a possible bug or two. -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 11:59:23PM +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Roman Zilka (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 23:34:01 +0200): Neil Bothwick (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:16:18 +0100): On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. I checked that - in this case, there are no alternatives. Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking enough. Yeah, virtual/pam may be one of a list. But if nothing else, I have openssh and openssh says: RDEPEND=pam? ( virtual/pam ) No alternatives there. And I don't have virtual/pam, but do have openssh. So why does '-uDN world' not pull virtual/pam in? My guess is that when virtual/pam was introduced, the openssh ebuild was changed to depend on it without a rev bump. Then while upgrading emerge will use the old ebuild of the installed openssh, and when you use --emptytree it will use the new one in the portage tree. You can test the theory by comparing the ebuild in portage with the one in /var/db/pkg/net-misc/. Henry
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 23:34:41 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I'm curious, however, about my Gentoo VMs. Can KMS run on a VM's kernel and do anything useful there? This is more for learning and not about any practical need at this time. From my understanding, this topic gets yucky. There's a whole bunch of ways this could be done, from software emulation to para- virtualization to full virtualization. Emulation is easy - KMS in the guest sees what looks for all the world like hardware so everything works if KMS supports the emulated card (albeit slowly). However, it can't get a list of supported display resolutions from the monitor so it is fair to say it works in a VM, for some definition of works. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 19: Passive aggression signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: What's up with the hardened USE flag?
On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 00:47:07 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: Why not? I see no downside to it but I'm willing to be educated. Imagine this: A package is built by default with Gtk as well as with Qt support. There is no USE flag which would omit building with one of those. Then, the ebuild developer introduces those USE flags. --changed-use will not catch this, so you will continue having both Gtk and Qt support in the package, even though you're interested only in one of them (Gnome vs KDE user, for example). Or, imagine another scenario. A package offers multithreading support, resulting in a huge speed-up on machines with more than one core or CPU. But the ebuild configures and builds the package without multithreading, and there's no USE flag. When the ebuild dev puts a USE flag in there (and probably turns it on by default), --changed-use will also not catch this, because it's not a USE flag that changed, but instead a new one that wasn't there before. So you will continue running the package in its slow built, missing out on the big performance gain. changed-use also acts on added/removed flags, it just doesn't recompile when the added/removed flag is not in use. So if my KDE system has -gtk to use your first example, you are right in that adding a gtk USE flag will not rebuild it until the next update and my program will continue to work as it did. However, adding an enabled multithreading USE flag as your second example will force a rebuild. It seems that the trade off here is that I have may have cruft that was previously compulsory but is now optional for a couple of weeks, but I won't have to rebuild libreoffice or xulrunner every time a dev tweaks a USE flag that doesn't affect me. That seems a reasonable trade to me, but I still have an open mind. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 2: Exact estimate signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Henry Gebhardt (Tue, 5 Jul 2011 00:21:22 +0200): On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 11:59:23PM +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Roman Zilka (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 23:34:01 +0200): Neil Bothwick (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:16:18 +0100): On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. I checked that - in this case, there are no alternatives. Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking enough. Yeah, virtual/pam may be one of a list. But if nothing else, I have openssh and openssh says: RDEPEND=pam? ( virtual/pam ) No alternatives there. And I don't have virtual/pam, but do have openssh. So why does '-uDN world' not pull virtual/pam in? My guess is that when virtual/pam was introduced, the openssh ebuild was changed to depend on it without a rev bump. Then while upgrading emerge will use the old ebuild of the installed openssh, and when you use --emptytree it will use the new one in the portage tree. You can test the theory by comparing the ebuild in portage with the one in /var/db/pkg/net-misc/. I was expecting to find this to be the cause, because I absolutely didn't think of it and it sounds likely. But /var/db/pkg/net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1/RDEPEND requires virtual/pam too. -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] Strangeness in dep calculation
Roman Zilka (Tue, 5 Jul 2011 00:36:21 +0200): Henry Gebhardt (Tue, 5 Jul 2011 00:21:22 +0200): On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 11:59:23PM +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Roman Zilka (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 23:34:01 +0200): Neil Bothwick (Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:16:18 +0100): On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 22:48:44 +0200, Roman Zilka wrote: Not quite. This is how I'm thinking: if '-ep world' says virtual/pam needs to be installed, then it either * is in the world file, or * is in the system set, or * is a buildtime or runtime dependency (immediate or deep) of one of the packages in the world set (i.e., world file and system set combined). There's another possibility, that it is one of a number of packages that satisfy a particular dependency, the first listed one. If you have another package installed that fulfils this dependency, emerge -u world won't need to do anything, but with emerge -e world you are telling portage that the other package is not installed, so it picks the first dependency from the list. I checked that - in this case, there are no alternatives. Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking enough. Yeah, virtual/pam may be one of a list. But if nothing else, I have openssh and openssh says: RDEPEND=pam? ( virtual/pam ) No alternatives there. And I don't have virtual/pam, but do have openssh. So why does '-uDN world' not pull virtual/pam in? My guess is that when virtual/pam was introduced, the openssh ebuild was changed to depend on it without a rev bump. Then while upgrading emerge will use the old ebuild of the installed openssh, and when you use --emptytree it will use the new one in the portage tree. You can test the theory by comparing the ebuild in portage with the one in /var/db/pkg/net-misc/. I was expecting to find this to be the cause, because I absolutely didn't think of it and it sounds likely. But /var/db/pkg/net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1/RDEPEND requires virtual/pam too. Furthermore, FWIW, I tried the following. # USE=-pam emerge -v1 openssh // indicated the change in the pam USE flag and rebuilt openssh # emerge -pv openssh [ebuild R] net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 USE=X hpn ldap pam* -X509 -kerberos -libedit (-selinux) -skey -static -tcpd 0 kB # emerge -vuD --changed-use --with-bdeps y world [ebuild R] net-misc/openssh-5.8_p1-r1 USE=X hpn ldap pam* -X509 -kerberos -libedit (-selinux) -skey -static -tcpd 0 kB No signs of virtual/pam. -rz
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Jesús J. Guerrero Botella wrote: 2011/7/4 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com: I don't think I am logged in long enough to change the settings. I may try my test user but I think a file got corrupted or something. I did have a power failure the other day and the relay on my UPS was not quite fast enough. I think the contacts may need some cleaning. My UPS does some odd things at times. I need a new one but they are pricey. I had forgot about the power failure issue. That has lead me down a different path now. You don't need much time. The default shortcut to disable compositing in kde is shift+alt+f12 You can try the vesa driver, or any alternative that will work with your card, as well. I also had the usb issue that others said above, with previous kernel versions. I haven't seen it lately though, with 2.6.39.x. I may try that if this re-emerge doesn't help any. It doesn't like much. I just hope all the thunder I keep hearing will not force me to shutdown my rig. I think Mother Nature is hungry since the tummy is growling a lot. :/ Hmmm, I use Nvidia for my drivers. I don't even know if vesa is on here or not. I might add that Fluxbox has been working. It even plays videos fine. I'm not sure this is a video driver problem, not yet anyway. I been using 2.6.38 for a while. I seem to have missed the USB bug. I don't have much that uses it except for my printer and my camera. I don't even have my printer hooked up most of them time. Maybe I do have some good luck after all. o_O Thanks. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
Grant wrote: My motherboard is getting flaky and it's time for a new one. I have an AMD 6000+ CPU, 4GB DDR2/800 RAM, 2TB SATA2 HD, Blu-Ray burner, PCI wireless card, 400W power supply, and ATX case. I could replace any of these components if it's worthwhile for some new feature, but I may as well keep them if it's not. You'll probably keep the HDD, Blu-Ray drive and the wireless card for the new system. It's better to replace your PSU. For example : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371046 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182202 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207012 They'll all do the job, different brands, models and prices. If you're not going to sell the old CPU and memory modules you can buy a mobo and keep it as a backup PC : http://cgi.ebay.com/Asus-M2N68-AM-PLUS-Socket-AM2-GeForce7025-DDR2-A-V- Lan-/310329745884?pt=Motherboardshash=item48411821dc You'll need a new chassis if you decide to keep these old parts. The most important thing is reliability and Linux compatibility but I also need HDMI and I figure USB 3.0 is a good idea. The system is for playing music and movies, no gaming whatsoever. If you're familiar with the current hardware scene, where would you go from here as far as a motherboard and other components? Any features a Gentoo'er should look for? Plenty to choose. HDMI is nearly in every motherboard with onboard video. There are many ways to go, I picked the AM3+ way and with some excessive spending for the motherboard : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128514 Not economical but I like the look and the quality of this one. For the CPU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103903 A cheap option, but should be enough and instead of paying big bucks for 6-cores etc, wait for the bulldozer. For memory : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231308 8 GB should be good for a long time. With this board you'll need a discrete video card. This one should do the job : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161374 Fanless, so some ventilation is needed. I went full AMD. Good luck.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 14:15:12 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: SNIP I'm curious, however, about my Gentoo VMs. Can KMS run on a VM's kernel and do anything useful there? This is more for learning and not about any practical need at this time. From my understanding, this topic gets yucky. There's a whole bunch of ways this could be done, from software emulation to para- virtualization to full virtualization. Emulation is easy - KMS in the guest sees what looks for all the world like hardware so everything works if KMS supports the emulated card (albeit slowly). For everything else, you'd need kernel drivers intercepting efforts to talk to the hardware and be traffic cop. My brain is already spinning on this so please excuse me while I go dunk my head in a bucket and not think about it anymore :-) So I'm wondering if the Virtualbox graphics driver (xf86-video-virtualbox) is a framebuffer local to the VM or something else? My NVidia GFX465 running the NVidia driver does about 11,000 FPS in glxgears in Linux. glxgears running in the VM does about 130FPS, or around 1% of the performance outside. Yes, it's 'slow', depending on how we define slow. It's faster then machine I ran native in Linux 5 years ago, and it's very usable for things like browsers, etc. I don't know what tool to use to measure graphics performance on Windows but my Windows XP VM is more than fast enough to watch Netflix full screen at 1920x1080 without any major amount of tearing, so Virtualbox graphics performance there is fine. Anyway, just data. Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Jesús J. Guerrero Botella jesus.guerrero.bote...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/7/4 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com: I don't think I am logged in long enough to change the settings. I may try my test user but I think a file got corrupted or something. I did have a power failure the other day and the relay on my UPS was not quite fast enough. I think the contacts may need some cleaning. My UPS does some odd things at times. I need a new one but they are pricey. I had forgot about the power failure issue. That has lead me down a different path now. You don't need much time. The default shortcut to disable compositing in kde is shift+alt+f12 You can also edit the user KDE config directly via: ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc [Compositing] Enabled=True change to Enabled=False There's more than one way to skin a cat. -- Regards, Gregory.
[gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de writes: [...] Harry wrote: So I'm a little confused. Nikos replied: The guide deals with how to make X.Org use KMS. That does not mean that KMS requires X. For your X-less machine, all you need to do is enable the driver for your card in the kernel config, and make sure to also enable KMS. You need to disable the VESA/uvesafb drivers to avoid conflicts. What graphics card do you have, btw? The gentoo install is a guest (Virtual Box) vm hosted on win 7. Video information: From lspci: VGA compatible controller: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter More from lshw: description: VGA compatible controller product: VirtualBox Graphics Adapter vendor: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH physical id: 2 bus info: pci@:00:02.0 version: 00 width: 32 bits clock: 33MHz capabilities: vga_controller bus_master configuration: latency=0 resources: memory:e000-e0ff
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 04 July 2011 14:15:12 Mark Knecht did opine thusly: SNIP I'm curious, however, about my Gentoo VMs. Can KMS run on a VM's kernel and do anything useful there? This is more for learning and not about any practical need at this time. From my understanding, this topic gets yucky. There's a whole bunch of ways this could be done, from software emulation to para- virtualization to full virtualization. Emulation is easy - KMS in the guest sees what looks for all the world like hardware so everything works if KMS supports the emulated card (albeit slowly). For everything else, you'd need kernel drivers intercepting efforts to talk to the hardware and be traffic cop. My brain is already spinning on this so please excuse me while I go dunk my head in a bucket and not think about it anymore :-) So I'm wondering if the Virtualbox graphics driver (xf86-video-virtualbox) is a framebuffer local to the VM or something else? My NVidia GFX465 running the NVidia driver does about 11,000 FPS in glxgears in Linux. glxgears running in the VM does about 130FPS, or around 1% of the performance outside. Yes, it's 'slow', depending on how we define slow. It's faster then machine I ran native in Linux 5 years ago, and it's very usable for things like browsers, etc. I don't know what tool to use to measure graphics performance on Windows but my Windows XP VM is more than fast enough to watch Netflix full screen at 1920x1080 without any major amount of tearing, so Virtualbox graphics performance there is fine. Anyway, just data. Thanks, Mark GLX is also doing OpenGL 3D rendering which, outside the VM is hardware accelerated while inside of it the driver has no true, direct, access to hardware, though if you're one of the very lucky, there's a chance of halfway workable pass-through via the guest additions and such, but even that's slow (and I'm not certain it's available to a *nix guest). -- Poison [BLX] Joshua M. Murphy
[gentoo-user] Re: about boot with framebuffer
On 07/05/2011 03:48 AM, Harry Putnam wrote: Nikos Chantziarasrea...@arcor.de writes: [...] Harry wrote: So I'm a little confused. Nikos replied: The guide deals with how to make X.Org use KMS. That does not mean that KMS requires X. For your X-less machine, all you need to do is enable the driver for your card in the kernel config, and make sure to also enable KMS. You need to disable the VESA/uvesafb drivers to avoid conflicts. What graphics card do you have, btw? The gentoo install is a guest (Virtual Box) vm hosted on win 7. I don't think there's a KMS driver for VirtualBox (AFAIK, the kernel has one only for VMWare.) So no need to investigate this further.
[gentoo-user] kdepimlibs and openldap compile failure. Shotgun please.
apitest.o ./.libs/libldap.so
/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
-L/usr/lib64 ../../libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
../../libraries/liblutil/liblutil.a /usr/lib64/libsasl2.so -lcrypt
/usr/lib64/libgnutls.so /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so -lnettle
/usr/lib64/libgmp.so -lhogweed -lz -ldl -lpthread -lresolv
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -D_GNU_SOURCE -Wl,-O1
-Wl,--as-needed -o .libs/ftest ftest.o ./.libs/libldap.so
/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
-L/usr/lib64 ../../libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
../../libraries/liblutil/liblutil.a /usr/lib64/libsasl2.so -lcrypt
/usr/lib64/libgnutls.so /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so -lnettle
/usr/lib64/libgmp.so -lhogweed -lz -ldl -lpthread -lresolv
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -D_GNU_SOURCE -Wl,-O1
-Wl,--as-needed -o .libs/urltest urltest.o ./.libs/libldap.so
/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
-L/usr/lib64 ../../libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
../../libraries/liblutil/liblutil.a /usr/lib64/libsasl2.so -lcrypt
/usr/lib64/libgnutls.so /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so -lnettle
/usr/lib64/libgmp.so -lhogweed -lz -ldl -lpthread -lresolv
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -D_GNU_SOURCE -Wl,-O1
-Wl,--as-needed -o .libs/ltest test.o ./.libs/libldap.so
/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
-L/usr/lib64 ../../libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
../../libraries/liblutil/liblutil.a /usr/lib64/libsasl2.so -lcrypt
/usr/lib64/libgnutls.so /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so -lnettle
/usr/lib64/libgmp.so -lhogweed -lz -ldl -lpthread -lresolv
x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc -march=native -O2 -pipe -D_GNU_SOURCE -Wl,-O1
-Wl,--as-needed -o .libs/dntest dntest.o ./.libs/libldap.so
/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
-L/usr/lib64 ../../libraries/liblber/.libs/liblber.so
../../libraries/liblutil/liblutil.a /usr/lib64/libsasl2.so -lcrypt
/usr/lib64/libgnutls.so /usr/lib64/libtasn1.so -lnettle
/usr/lib64/libgmp.so -lhogweed -lz -ldl -lpthread -lresolv
./.libs/libldap.so: undefined reference to `gcry_control'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [apitest] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs
./.libs/libldap.so: undefined reference to `gcry_control'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [ftest] Error 1
./.libs/libldap.so: undefined reference to `gcry_control'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
./.libs/libldap.so: undefined reference to `gcry_control'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [urltest] Error 1
make[2]: *** [ltest] Error 1
./.libs/libldap.so: undefined reference to `gcry_control'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [dntest] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory
`/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries/libldap'
make[1]: *** [all-common] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory
`/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24/libraries'
make: *** [all-common] Error 1
emake failed
* ERROR: net-nds/openldap-2.4.24 failed (compile phase):
* emake failed
*
* Call stack:
* ebuild.sh, line 56: Called src_compile
* environment, line 3215: Called die
* The specific snippet of code:
* emake CC=${CC} AR=${AR} || die emake failed;
*
* If you need support, post the output of 'emerge --info
=net-nds/openldap-2.4.24',
* the complete build log and the output of 'emerge -pqv
=net-nds/openldap-2.4.24'.
* The complete build log is located at
'/var/log/portage/net-nds:openldap-2.4.24:20110704-221104.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located at
'/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/temp/environment'.
* S: '/var/tmp/portage/net-nds/openldap-2.4.24/work/openldap-2.4.24'
root@fireball / #
Now for kdepimlibs:
/var/tmp/portage/kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/work/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/akonadi/typepluginloader.cpp:120:
warning: ‘bool Akonadi::operator(const QString, const
Akonadi::PluginEntry)’ defined but not used
/var/tmp/portage/kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/work/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/akonadi/typepluginloader.cpp:201:
warning: ‘bool Akonadi::operator(const Akonadi::MimeTypeEntry, const
Akonadi::MimeTypeEntry)’ defined but not used
/var/tmp/portage/kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/work/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/akonadi/typepluginloader.cpp:206:
warning: ‘bool Akonadi::operator(const Akonadi::MimeTypeEntry, const
QString)’ defined but not used
/var/tmp/portage/kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/work/kdepimlibs-4.6.4/akonadi/typepluginloader.cpp:211:
warning: ‘bool Akonadi::operator(const QString, const
Akonadi::MimeTypeEntry)’ defined but not used
[ 69%] Building CXX object
akonadi/CMakeFiles/akonadi-kde.dir/notificationmanagerinterface.o
[ 69%] Building CXX object kldap/CMakeFiles/kldap.dir/ldapobject.o
[ 69%] Building CXX object
akonadi/CMakeFiles/akonadi-kde.dir/notificationsourceinterface.o
[gentoo-user] nfsv4 file write and read hangs
I'm having some really strange issues with an NFSv4 mount on a few of my systems and am hoping someone can shed some light on what may be going on. Server is exporting v4 NFS. I can mount the export from any one of my clients. However, upon attempting to write to the directory using something simple like touch, the write hangs and I have to CTRL-C to break out. An ls will display the files in the exported directory without any issues, but cat'ing a file in the directory will also fail. /shared 192.168.1.0/24(rw,fsid=0,insecure,no_subtree_check,crossmnt) /volatile 192.168.1.0/24(rw,fsid=2,insecure,nohide,no_subtree_check) I had this working at one point, but something went wonky and I haven't been able to get it to work since. I was tinkering with rpc.idmapd, rpc.pipefs (not sure what this does, honestly), etc. None of my changes should have put the server in a state where clients cannot read / write to an export. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this? -james
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and HARD lock ups.
Gregory Shearman wrote: Jesús J. Guerrero Botellajesus.guerrero.bote...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/7/4 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com: I don't think I am logged in long enough to change the settings. I may try my test user but I think a file got corrupted or something. I did have a power failure the other day and the relay on my UPS was not quite fast enough. I think the contacts may need some cleaning. My UPS does some odd things at times. I need a new one but they are pricey. I had forgot about the power failure issue. That has lead me down a different path now. You don't need much time. The default shortcut to disable compositing in kde is shift+alt+f12 You can also edit the user KDE config directly via: ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc [Compositing] Enabled=True change to Enabled=False There's more than one way to skin a cat. Ahhh, I figured there was a config file somewhere but wasn't sure what it would be called. Now I know how to do it with nano. lol Thanks much for the pointer. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] {OT} Time for hardware upgrade(s)
On 2011-07-04 22:32, Grant wrote: That's the FM1 socket, right? I only see two FM1 CPUs on newegg.com Yep. right now. They're quad-core and 100W. I guess the advantage there is they have graphics on the CPU. A 65W CPU would be better but when it comes out I suppose. Yes, since a htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu (or a powerful gpu) I would wait for the low power version. Acc. to Wikipedia the A6-3600/3800 should be released (30th of June) so it shouldn't take long for Newegg to get them? I guess you could always ask them... My thinking is this: A htpc doesn't need a powerful cpu/gpu combo but if you're running Gentoo on it, and planning to do the compiling on the machine itself, it's still nice to have a few cores available. If you are patient or can do cross-compiling (I haven't actually tried these myself) on another machine there are even lower power alternatives (Intel Atom, AMD Fusion): http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_CPU_on_Board/E35M1M/ http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_CPU_on_Board/AT5IONTI/#overview http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3681#ov http://vr-zone.com/articles/asus-at5iont-i-review/11811-10.html Haven't looked at the details, just did quick search... Well, I guess you could find even lower power alternatives as well... ARM maybe? But that's another story! Best regards Peter K
