Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a way to keyword a whole overlay as ~arch ?
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 20:00:47 -0800, Michael Higgins wrote: Yep, you just need to know the overlay name. In package.accept_keywords: */*::overlay-name ~amd64 The */* syntax means any category, any package name. The :: then specifies the repository name. If you don't know the repository name, it can often be found in path/to/overlay/profiles/repo_name. I wonder, can we get a hint of this function echo-ed at the end of every new layman install? It would make using, say, perl-experimental, far less unwieldy than without. It is documented in man portage, in the wildcards subsection of the atom definition part. I had no idea this was possible, but it seems the only way to use the overlay without making of mess of package.accept_keywords, which is what I have had when installing anything useful in the perl development area. Does this make any sense? Do all the overlays work that way, that is, kw-masking everything so you have to enable the ~arch per package? This always seemed absurd to me, as I added the overlay, I must have meant to use it... but anyway... You are running a stable arch, using only ebuilds that have been through Gentoo QA and user testing. Presumably you do that for a reason, so portage suddenly allowing installation of untested packages from a random repository goes against what you have told it you want in make.conf. Adding an overlay to layman does not necessarily mean you want everything that overlay offers. In some cases there will be newer, less tested, versions of packages you already have installed, packages you may not want randomly updated. The only way portage can know what you want is if you tell it so, the current approach is the safest, it only breaks what you tell it to break. This is Gentoo where you do the thinking and the system does what you tell it (which may not always be what you want). -- Neil Bothwick WinErr 00A: Promotional literature overflow - Mailbox full signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. Read it here: http://vsido.org/index.php?topic=653.45 I'd really like to see a similar discussion/debate by those far more knowledgeable than I with respect to systemd vs OpenRC, but the above does bring up a lot of salient points.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and obeying to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at the moment. Isn't that at all in the running? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 02/15/2014 11:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México The lack of foresight on social and political ramifications is epidemic to most of the FOSS world, as evidenced by the creeping adoption of systemd. Things are already depending on things that systemd provides, and is dividing the ecosystem into systemd vs everything else. Ambitious projects like systemd are damaging to the rich variety that should be found in the FOSS ecosystem. systemd in particular encourages embracing vertical integration and rejection of POSIX and UNIX principles. Its culture is adversarial to anyone who doubts the Great Image that Lennart and his employer has. If it were a project that was humble, without an agenda, and did not undergo evangelism, I'd have no problems with it because choice is something that I value immensely. But because it *isn't* humble, *has* an agenda, only reached the adoption it currently has by *lots* of arguing and pushing, and refuses to coexist with other init systems, I cannot respect it as a legitimate, non-aggressive, non-intrusive software project. I consider it a toxic threat to FOSS and refuse to have it on any system I maintain. systemd has technical merits (cgroups, socket activation, parellel execution of daemons, etc), but they fall by the wayside and become irrelevant to me when it swallows the functionality of multiple projects that should be separate (see: udev) and tries to be everything to everyone (splash image, web server, boot time graphs, etc). The social tactics at work from the systemd team (and verily, other Red Hat projects like GNOME) are reminiscent of Microsoft through the use of the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish methodology. With their paid developers and more abundant resources, Red Hat (and arguably other corporations) can use their developers to push their agendas and, in a sense, commandeer control of the FOSS world. I will give them no inch on my systems. I am skeptical of their involvement in the kernel, as well. It's sad to see Debian giving into peer pressure. I honestly thought that they would see the agenda miles away and prevent a monoculture. For people who are technically intelligent, they're seriously lacking any foresight in their decisions and are completely blind to the social and political ramifications. Distros will regret depending on such a project and it will set GNU/Linux development back many years when systemd becomes a full stack and working without it is made difficult or impractical (through the use of lock-in tactics). I hope that Gentoo continues to be a safe haven for choice and the spirit of FOSS. Without it, I may have to concede and either start building my own distro, or going to the BSDs. Just my two cents. Ignore or reply at your discretion.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and obeying to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at the moment. Isn't that at all in the running? For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: 1. sysvinit (status quo) 2. systemd 3. upstart 4. openrc (experimental) 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux 6. multiple It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. Regards. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 02/15/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and obeying to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at the moment. Isn't that at all in the running? For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: 1. sysvinit (status quo) 2. systemd 3. upstart 4. openrc (experimental) 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux 6. multiple It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. Regards. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ Why didn't they consider runit? It has parallel execution of daemons and is backwards compatible with sysv. It has a few other mini-features as well, iirc. I used for a little while before Arch pushed systemd on their community and it was interesting.
[gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:34:34 -0600, Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote: Why didn't they consider runit? It has parallel execution of daemons and is backwards compatible with sysv. It has a few other mini-features as well, iirc. I used for a little while before Arch pushed systemd on their community and it was interesting. I'll just put this link to a forum thread on epoch from late last year, in case any potentially interested party has not seen it yet. It's available in the gentoo package tree, and from the thread it seems to have workable integration. http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-975382-highlight-epoch.html -- eroen signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote: On 02/15/2014 02:32 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 15 Feb 2014 17:32:44 Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. There was a thread sometime last year mentioning a slimmer/slicker and obeying to the *nix design principles initialisation system, but can't find it at the moment. Isn't that at all in the running? For Slackware, I have no idea. For Debian, no the only options were[1]: 1. sysvinit (status quo) 2. systemd 3. upstart 4. openrc (experimental) 5. One system on Linux, something else on non-linux 6. multiple It should also be noted that no one in the TC voted OpenRC above systemd AND upstart, and that while a couple voted systemd below everything else, it can be argued that it was a tactical vote. Regards. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ Why didn't they consider runit? It has parallel execution of daemons and is backwards compatible with sysv. It has a few other mini-features as well, iirc. I used for a little while before Arch pushed systemd on their community and it was interesting. Because nobody proposed it? And almost no one is using it? Which means; no high availability upstream, no momentum, and a small community, which translates in few real-live systems using it in production, and few testers and possible contributors... Besides, systemd and upstart are backwars compatible with sysv, and, well, nobody does parallel execution of daemons better than systemd, AFAICT. So, what advantages would runit bring to the table? Even OpenRC, now that it has (apparently) proper parallel execution support, would be a better choice. But you can read the discussion directly in [1], and see the different proposals in [2]. The discussion got nasty at some points, but I believe in general it was a very civil and intelligent debate. And the social/political problems you mentioned in your last mail were addressed as well. Problems in quotes because there are many of us who don't think they are problems at all, if they even exist. Regards. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/threads.html [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/ -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] WinTV Nova-T
Hello, i try since days to run this DVB USB Stick on Gentoo but i has at one point make a mistake which not found. :) My Kernel Conf: https://silviosiefke.com/downloads/kernelconf I find the stick with usb, but when read Wiki i must become entry in lsinput but there the stick is not present. gentoomobile ~ # lsinput /dev/input/event0 bustype : BUS_HOST vendor : 0x0 product : 0x1 version : 0 name: Power Button phys: PNP0C0C/button/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY /dev/input/event1 bustype : BUS_HOST vendor : 0x0 product : 0x3 version : 0 name: Sleep Button phys: PNP0C0E/button/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY /dev/input/event2 bustype : BUS_HOST vendor : 0x0 product : 0x5 version : 0 name: Lid Switch phys: PNP0C0D/button/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_SW /dev/input/event3 bustype : BUS_HOST vendor : 0x0 product : 0x1 version : 0 name: Power Button phys: LNXPWRBN/button/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY /dev/input/event4 bustype : BUS_HOST vendor : 0x0 product : 0x6 version : 0 name: Video Bus phys: LNXVIDEO/video/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY /dev/input/event5 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x1 product : 0x1 version : 43841 name: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard phys: isa0060/serio0/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY EV_MSC EV_LED EV_REP /dev/input/event6 bustype : (null) vendor : 0x0 product : 0x0 version : 0 name: HDA Intel Headphone phys: ALSA bits ev : EV_SYN EV_SW /dev/input/event7 bustype : (null) vendor : 0x0 product : 0x0 version : 0 name: HDA Intel Mic phys: ALSA bits ev : EV_SYN EV_SW /dev/input/event8 bustype : BUS_USB vendor : 0x402 product : 0x9665 version : 9 name: 1.3M WebCam phys: usb-:00:1d.7-4/button bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY /dev/input/event9 bustype : BUS_I8042 vendor : 0x2 product : 0x7 version : 433 name: SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad phys: isa0060/serio1/input0 bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY EV_ABS /dev/input/event10 bustype : BUS_USB vendor : 0x1d57 product : 0x8 version : 272 name: 2.4G Wireless Optical Mouse phys: usb-:00:1d.0-2/input0 uniq: bits ev : EV_SYN EV_KEY EV_REL EV_MSC Has someone an advice what can do ? Thank you for help Nice Weekend Silvio
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 14:30:10 -0600 Daniel Campbell li...@sporkbox.us wrote: On 02/15/2014 11:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Feb 15, 2014 11:02 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-15 10:16 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Hi all, Not to revive a flame-fest against systemd, but... I'm sure some or most of you have already heard about this, but I found a really decent thread discussing this whole systemd thing. It is only really comparing systemd and upstart, as that was the debate going on in the debian TC, but it is a great read, and has actually made me rethink my blind objections to systemd a bit. One of which was logging: 20. Myth: systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service. From: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html Also, for those of you who don't follow Linux-related news, Ubuntu will also change to systemd in the future: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1316 And I *heard* that Slackware was also discussing the possibility, but since I don't follow Slackware at all, I don't know for sure. Anyway, distros not using systemd, and that they are not really small and/or niche, seem to be disappearing. The discussion that Tanstaafl posted is interesting since the arguments used by the four TC members are really focused on the technical merits of the proposed init systems. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México The lack of foresight on social and political ramifications is epidemic to most of the FOSS world, as evidenced by the creeping adoption of systemd. Things are already depending on things that systemd provides, and is dividing the ecosystem into systemd vs everything else. Ambitious projects like systemd are damaging to the rich variety that should be found in the FOSS ecosystem. systemd in particular encourages embracing vertical integration and rejection of POSIX and UNIX principles. Its culture is adversarial to anyone who doubts the Great Image that Lennart and his employer has. If it were a project that was humble, without an agenda, and did not undergo evangelism, I'd have no problems with it because choice is something that I value immensely. But because it *isn't* humble, *has* an agenda, only reached the adoption it currently has by *lots* of arguing and pushing, and refuses to coexist with other init systems, I cannot respect it as a legitimate, non-aggressive, non-intrusive software project. I consider it a toxic threat to FOSS and refuse to have it on any system I maintain. systemd has technical merits (cgroups, socket activation, parellel execution of daemons, etc), but they fall by the wayside and become irrelevant to me when it swallows the functionality of multiple projects that should be separate (see: udev) and tries to be everything to everyone (splash image, web server, boot time graphs, etc). The social tactics at work from the systemd team (and verily, other Red Hat projects like GNOME) are reminiscent of Microsoft through the use of the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish methodology. With their paid developers and more abundant resources, Red Hat (and arguably other corporations) can use their developers to push their agendas and, in a sense, commandeer control of the FOSS world. I will give them no inch on my systems. I am skeptical of their involvement in the kernel, as well. It's sad to see Debian giving into peer pressure. I honestly thought that they would see the agenda miles away and prevent a monoculture. For people who are technically intelligent, they're seriously lacking any foresight in their decisions and are completely blind to the social and political ramifications. Distros will regret depending on such a project and it will set GNU/Linux development back many years when systemd becomes a full stack and working without it is made difficult or impractical (through the use of lock-in tactics). I hope that Gentoo continues to be a safe haven for choice and the spirit of FOSS. Without it, I may have to concede and either start building my own distro, or going to the BSDs. Thank you for the explanation. I suspected this yet from the beginning of this discussion and waited for such or similar explanations. Technically, I so far know a very little on this subject and only suspect :-) that my Gentoo system uses openrc. I am quite satisfied with it and afraid of switching Gentoo default to systemd.
Re: [gentoo-user] WinTV Nova-T
Hello, Please also send the lsusb output to the list, in particular the vendor/product ids (looks like 046d:c30e) are probably necessary to determine what driver your hardware requires .-) dmesg output [25167.104106] usb 1-3: new high-speed USB device number 8 using ehci-pci [25167.218977] usb 1-3: New USB device found, idVendor=2040, idProduct=7070 [25167.218993] usb 1-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 [25167.219035] usb 1-3: Product: Nova-T Stick [25167.219049] usb 1-3: Manufacturer: Hauppauge [25167.219061] usb 1-3: SerialNumber: 4031065185 siefke ~ $ lsusb Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0402:9665 ALi Corp. Gateway Webcam Bus 001 Device 008: ID 2040:7070 Hauppauge Nova-T Stick 3 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 002 Device 002: ID 1d57:0008 Xenta Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub /var/log/messages Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.081087] usb 1-3: new high-speed USB device number 9 using ehci-pci Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.195978] usb 1-3: New USB device found, idVendor=2040, idProduct=7070 Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.195993] usb 1-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.196030] usb 1-3: Product: Nova-T Stick Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.196040] usb 1-3: Manufacturer: Hauppauge Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile kernel: [25265.196050] usb 1-3: SerialNumber: 4031065185 Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile mtp-probe: checking bus 1, device 9: /sys/devices/pci:00/:00:1d.7/usb1/1-3 Feb 15 23:14:19 gentoomobile mtp-probe: bus: 1, device: 9 was not an MTP device Thank you for help Nice Day Silvio
[gentoo-user] Re: WinTV Nova-T
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:16:15 +0100, Silvio Siefke siefke_lis...@web.de wrote: siefke ~ $ lsusb Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0402:9665 ALi Corp. Gateway Webcam Bus 001 Device 008: ID 2040:7070 Hauppauge Nova-T Stick 3 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 002 Device 002: ID 1d57:0008 Xenta Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub It appears (from grepping and skimming drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb/dib0700_devices.c and .../Kconfig) that the driver for your device is controlled by the DVB_USB_DIB0700 kernel configuration option, which seems to be disabled in the .config you linked. Please try enabling this option in the kernel configuration, build and boot to the new kernel, and see if that brings you a bit further along :-) In menuconfig, the option should be found here: - Device Drivers - Multimedia support - Media USB Adapters - Support for various USB DVB devices - DiBcom DiB0700 USB DVB devices -- eroen signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: WinTV Nova-T
On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 23:55:41 +0100 eroen er...@falcon.eroen.eu wrote: In menuconfig, the option should be found here: - Device Drivers - Multimedia support - Media USB Adapters - Support for various USB DVB devices - DiBcom DiB0700 USB DVB devices Bingo :) That's it thank you so much. Hh i only see Hauppauge in v2 devices, this option i not see. Thank you so much Nice Sunday Silvio
[gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 02/15/2014 12:30 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: The social tactics at work from the systemd team (and verily, other Red Hat projects like GNOME) are reminiscent of Microsoft through the use of the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish methodology. I certainly share your hostility towards M$ for suppressing competition. Red Hat, like M$, is a for-profit corporation, so I share your suspicion that they want to suppress their competitors (though I don't know who their competitors are). But comparing a completely closed-source shop like M$ to any open source company leaves me feeling uneasy. I can't find the exact argument to explain my unease, but I'm hoping someone else will jump in with a more rational argument.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 4:09 AM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/15/2014 12:30 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: The social tactics at work from the systemd team (and verily, other Red Hat projects like GNOME) are reminiscent of Microsoft through the use of the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish methodology. I certainly share your hostility towards M$ for suppressing competition. Red Hat, like M$, is a for-profit corporation, so I share your suspicion that they want to suppress their competitors (though I don't know who their competitors are). But comparing a completely closed-source shop like M$ to any open source company leaves me feeling uneasy. I can't find the exact argument to explain my unease, but I'm hoping someone else will jump in with a more rational argument. Once the vertical will be too high and spaghetti like, there will be no difference between close source and open source vendor, as nobody will be able to maintain the vertical without being payed for it. Even if one believes that he has a great fix/improvement, he won't be able to get it merged unless he is endorsed or work in specific vendor, as the roadmap, support matrix and content will be determined by that open source vendor. It will be impossible to fork it either as forking the entire vertical is out of the question. Regards, Alon
