Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Dale]

lee wrote:
> Dale  writes:
>
>> lee wrote:
>>> Daniel Frey  writes:
>>>
 On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
> "Walter Dnes"  writes:
>
>>   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
>> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
> Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.
 Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
 workstation/server boards have two ports.

 i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.
>>> It is not reasonable to assume that a "typical home user" would want a
>>> computer with a crappy board to run Linux on it (or for anything
>>> else). If they are that cheap, they're better off buying a used one.
>>> When they are sufficiently clueless to want something like that, what
>>> does it matter what the network interfaces are called.
>>>
>> I built my current rig just a few years ago.  It has one ethernet port
>> on it.  Since it didn't work right, bad drivers I guess, I added a card
>> to have the second port.  The rig I built before that, it also had one
>> ethernet port. 
>>
>> I might add, I didn't buy a "crappy board" either.  The first was Abit
>> which was the top rated brand at the time and my current board is
>> Gigabyte, another highly rated board at the time I bought it.
> I have no experience with Abit, and I can tell you from experience with
> a couple of them that Gigabyte is the worst junk for a board you can
> buy and that their support has no idea what they are doing.

Well, I have two of them and they work just fine.  I might add, Abit
gave me many years of 24/7 service.  Being outdated was its only
problem.  Also, Gigabyte and Asus were the top rated boards when I
bought my board.  Some who have been here long enough may even recall me
posting my buy list here on this mailing list.  So, you thinking
Gigabyte is junk can go in the same place as your thinking two ports on
every board is the default.   It's your opinion and not based on
reality.   I've learned the same usually applies to hard drives as well. 

>> As Daniel
>> points out, you have to get into some pretty high end boards before you
>> get two ethernet ports. 
>>
>> Just for giggles, I went and looked at Asus boards, currently highly
>> rated.  I had to get up around the $400 range to find two ports.  Most
>> computers built for home use, and even some, maybe most, business
>> computers, only have one port.  It's all they need. 
>>
>> I might also add, I have a lot of friends that give me their old
>> computers.  Of all the puters I have ever seen, they had one ethernet
>> port.  Over the past decade or so, I've likely stripped out a few dozen
>> computers for parts.  Not one of them had two ethernet ports. 
>>
>> I'm with Daniel on this one. 
> The last time I got a board that didn't have two ports is about 20 years
> ago, and I never bought one for 400.  They all just have 2, needed or
> not, even cheap ones.
>
>

Odd.  Just for giggles, I went to Newegg.  I pulled up both AMD and
Intel boards.  I then looked at the pictures of the top sellers listed
there.  With my settings, it lists 36 on each page.  Out of the first
page for each type, only a couple or so had two ports and only one that
I saw was under $200.00.  The rest were more expensive than that.  I
think that one $200.00 board was a Gigabyte by the way.  I doubt you
want to claim owning that, right?  Looked at 72 boards, only found a
couple or so with two ethernet ports. 

So, looking at a large website that has likely millions of customers,
carries about every brand of board there is, I could only find a very
small percentage of boards that have two ethernet ports built in.  That
is not what a reasonable person would call the default.  If it was the
default as you claim, then there should only be a few that don't have
two ports.  You add in that Daniel, Taiidan and myself have not seen
such a default, then I think you are mistaken. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Andrej Rode]

Why
> Or can you explain how unrecognisable names make things easier?

Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem with
eth<0,10> switching names after boot. Everyone who had them appreciates
predictable network interfaces.

If you don't like them you can disable them in udev (I actually was
wrong about only systemd).
And actually I couldn't care less how my devices are named. Because
ranting about them on a mailing list already takes more time and
characters than typing `ip a`

But yeah, I stop feeding the trolls right here :)

cheers,
Andrej



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Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

Andrej Rode  writes:

>>> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
>>> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
>>> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.
>
> Then you might found a bug? With predictable network names the name of
> your device depends on the PCIe slot/address it is in. If you change
> positions in the board your names should change, not on reboot.

It wasn't me who said that.

> And you might believe it or not, running Linux on servers is much more
> popular than running Linux on your home desktop. Thus I'd guess things
> tend to be made easier for people with more than one network card.
> Certainly you don't want rely on random device enumeration order on
> reboot if you run a webserver with multiple network devices.

The point is that replacing recognisable names with unrecognisable ones
doesn't make things easier, regardless of how many network ports you
have.

Or can you explain how unrecognisable names make things easier?

> If you want to disable this on hosts running systemd read [0].

I'm not using systemd.

> Cheers,
> Andrej
>
> [0]
> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

"taii...@gmx.com"  writes:

> It is just another swell example of the pottering-eqsue corruption of
> the free software movement.

Was that really his idea?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

Dale  writes:

> lee wrote:
>> Daniel Frey  writes:
>>
>>> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
 "Walter Dnes"  writes:

>   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
 Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.
>>> Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
>>> workstation/server boards have two ports.
>>>
>>> i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.
>> It is not reasonable to assume that a "typical home user" would want a
>> computer with a crappy board to run Linux on it (or for anything
>> else). If they are that cheap, they're better off buying a used one.
>> When they are sufficiently clueless to want something like that, what
>> does it matter what the network interfaces are called.
>>
>
> I built my current rig just a few years ago.  It has one ethernet port
> on it.  Since it didn't work right, bad drivers I guess, I added a card
> to have the second port.  The rig I built before that, it also had one
> ethernet port. 
>
> I might add, I didn't buy a "crappy board" either.  The first was Abit
> which was the top rated brand at the time and my current board is
> Gigabyte, another highly rated board at the time I bought it.

I have no experience with Abit, and I can tell you from experience with
a couple of them that Gigabyte is the worst junk for a board you can
buy and that their support has no idea what they are doing.

> As Daniel
> points out, you have to get into some pretty high end boards before you
> get two ethernet ports. 
>
> Just for giggles, I went and looked at Asus boards, currently highly
> rated.  I had to get up around the $400 range to find two ports.  Most
> computers built for home use, and even some, maybe most, business
> computers, only have one port.  It's all they need. 
>
> I might also add, I have a lot of friends that give me their old
> computers.  Of all the puters I have ever seen, they had one ethernet
> port.  Over the past decade or so, I've likely stripped out a few dozen
> computers for parts.  Not one of them had two ethernet ports. 
>
> I'm with Daniel on this one. 

The last time I got a board that didn't have two ports is about 20 years
ago, and I never bought one for 400.  They all just have 2, needed or
not, even cheap ones.

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[lee]

Jorge Almeida  writes:

> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:40 PM, lee  wrote:
>> Jorge Almeida  writes:
>>
>
>>>
>>> It is a voodoo (i.e. fonts)  problem. Things work for me now, with -fp
>>> in the Xserver command line and /usr/share/fonts/Type1/ before
>>> /usr/share/fonts/misc/. I would prefer to understand what happens
>>> rather than blindly apply a fix, but anyway.
>>
>> Does xterm use different fonts for the menu depending on in which order
>> the directories appear in the font path?
>>
>>
> The menu has the same fonts when the first in the path is
> /usr/share/fonts/100dpi or /usr/share/fonts/Type1/; when
> /usr/share/fonts/75dpi it uses smaller fonts. So it seems that it
> wants /usr/share/fonts/?dpi. But if /usr/share/fonts/misc/ comes
> first, xterm crashes.

That sounds like a bug in xterm, picking a font that makes it crash,
depending on in which order they appear (are being searched through).

Even when there is a buggy font it picks, it shouldn't crash.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 12/19/2016 05:50 PM, Dale wrote:


lee wrote:

Daniel Frey  writes:


On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:

"Walter Dnes"  writes:


   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.

Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.

Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
workstation/server boards have two ports.

i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.

It is not reasonable to assume that a "typical home user" would want a
computer with a crappy board to run Linux on it (or for anything
else). If they are that cheap, they're better off buying a used one.
When they are sufficiently clueless to want something like that, what
does it matter what the network interfaces are called.


I built my current rig just a few years ago.  It has one ethernet port
on it.  Since it didn't work right, bad drivers I guess, I added a card
to have the second port.  The rig I built before that, it also had one
ethernet port.

I might add, I didn't buy a "crappy board" either.  The first was Abit
which was the top rated brand at the time and my current board is
Gigabyte, another highly rated board at the time I bought it.  As Daniel
points out, you have to get into some pretty high end boards before you
get two ethernet ports.

Just for giggles, I went and looked at Asus boards, currently highly
rated.  I had to get up around the $400 range to find two ports.  Most
computers built for home use, and even some, maybe most, business
computers, only have one port.  It's all they need.

I might also add, I have a lot of friends that give me their old
computers.  Of all the puters I have ever seen, they had one ethernet
port.  Over the past decade or so, I've likely stripped out a few dozen
computers for parts.  Not one of them had two ethernet ports.

I'm with Daniel on this one.

Dale

:-)  :-)
I too have never seen a non server board with more than one embedded 
network interface.
I have an expensive server board that features two ethernet ports but I 
really hate the removal of the ethX scheme, sometimes they get detected 
in the wrong order and ethX is way easier to type than ens1s0 or what not.


It is just another swell example of the pottering-eqsue corruption of 
the free software movement.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Neil Bothwick]

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 23:34:56 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:

> You know what I did or did not? Interesting!

You can make any post say whatever you want by taking it out of context.

You made a statement about systemd, I pointed out that it was incorrect.
Others have since made the same point about the same statement.

If you want t criticise a piece of software , by all means do so. If you
want t be taken seriously, criticise it on its merits after checking your
facts. Then criticise the software, not those who chose to use it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

TEXAS VIRUS: Makes sure that it's bigger than any other file.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Reading the (SSL) traffic with Pale Moon

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 06:43:53PM +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote

> And whether the NSS that Pale Moon uses is fine, maybe some of the devs
> can tell us, I apologize for for having made too hasty and very probably
> wrong conclusion in regard...

  See the 2nd post in https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=8971

Moonchild (the lead developer)
> The moment I am given access to the MozSec bugs after each 6-week
> release, I perform a full security audit on the bugs and code
> for applicability. If a vulnerability exists in Pale Moon that is
> addressed by these bugs, it is patched in the next release, with
> chemspill releases for urgent security issues pushed out asap in a
> point release.

  There is some informal slang here that you may not understand...
* "chemspill" ==> an emergency similar in nature to a hazardous chemical
   spill, requiring immediate response
* "asap" ==> an acronym for "As Soon As Possible"

  3rd post in same thread
Matt Tobin (developer)
> One thing to keep in mind is that just because there is a vulnerability
> in a codebase doesn't mean that there always was a vulnerability. As
> most know, Mozilla has been rewriting code (refactoring) at a rabid
> pace and has actually introduced more security flaws just by
> refactoring and rewriting the code badly than were previously there
> in the older incarnation of a chunk of code.

  Short summary...
* Pale Moon is an independant fork
* Pale Moon started out with a snapshot of Firefox code
* Pale Moon has made its own set of changes
* Mozilla (Firefox) has made a different set of changes
* the two browsers' source code is different enough that a problem that
  affects Firefox may not affect Pale Moon; see...
  https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=13984
* if there are real problems, there are point releases.  That's one
  reason why Pale Moon 27.0.1 and 27.0.2 and 27.0.3 have been released.
  E.g. see "Security-related and crash fixes:" in
  https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=14223

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Dale]

lee wrote:
> Daniel Frey  writes:
>
>> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
>>> "Walter Dnes"  writes:
>>>
   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
 ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
>>> Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.
>> Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
>> workstation/server boards have two ports.
>>
>> i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.
> It is not reasonable to assume that a "typical home user" would want a
> computer with a crappy board to run Linux on it (or for anything
> else). If they are that cheap, they're better off buying a used one.
> When they are sufficiently clueless to want something like that, what
> does it matter what the network interfaces are called.
>

I built my current rig just a few years ago.  It has one ethernet port
on it.  Since it didn't work right, bad drivers I guess, I added a card
to have the second port.  The rig I built before that, it also had one
ethernet port. 

I might add, I didn't buy a "crappy board" either.  The first was Abit
which was the top rated brand at the time and my current board is
Gigabyte, another highly rated board at the time I bought it.  As Daniel
points out, you have to get into some pretty high end boards before you
get two ethernet ports. 

Just for giggles, I went and looked at Asus boards, currently highly
rated.  I had to get up around the $400 range to find two ports.  Most
computers built for home use, and even some, maybe most, business
computers, only have one port.  It's all they need. 

I might also add, I have a lot of friends that give me their old
computers.  Of all the puters I have ever seen, they had one ethernet
port.  Over the past decade or so, I've likely stripped out a few dozen
computers for parts.  Not one of them had two ethernet ports. 

I'm with Daniel on this one. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Heiko Baums]

Am 19.12.2016 um 10:59 schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> If you can't work that out for yourself, what are you doing running
> Gentoo. I'm stating it can be done, I have neither the time nor the
> inclination to document it.

The question is not, if I can work this out myself or not. The question
is: Can you prove what you're claiming?

> I never claimed it was reasonable, you asked for a way to read them if
> you don't have systemd installed and I suggested a way.

I didn't ask. I've proven that those binary log files are crap, because
not they are not - say - compatible or interchangeable or whatever to
normal POSIX systems like the text files are.

The commands cat, less, grep are on every UNIX/Linux system. This
systemd logreader (I've forgotten its name) is not.

> But if you intend to dismiss anyone with a standpoint that does not
> precisely align with yours as a fanboy, there is no point in continuing
> this discussion.

It's just that you gave the same silly arguments every Poettering fanboy
gives in such discussions.

> Excellent, adding distortion to the ad hominem insults. I was simply
> pointing out that systemd does not preclude the use of an alternative
> logger.

Just twist it as you need it.

> Why? Because you demand so?

Because the Poettering fanboys and you always say so.

Heiko Baums

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Heiko Baums]

Am 19.12.2016 um 10:37 schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> No you don't.

You know what I did or did not? Interesting!

Heiko Baums

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[Jorge Almeida]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:40 PM, lee  wrote:
> Jorge Almeida  writes:
>

>>
>> It is a voodoo (i.e. fonts)  problem. Things work for me now, with -fp
>> in the Xserver command line and /usr/share/fonts/Type1/ before
>> /usr/share/fonts/misc/. I would prefer to understand what happens
>> rather than blindly apply a fix, but anyway.
>
> Does xterm use different fonts for the menu depending on in which order
> the directories appear in the font path?
>
>
The menu has the same fonts when the first in the path is
/usr/share/fonts/100dpi or /usr/share/fonts/Type1/; when
/usr/share/fonts/75dpi it uses smaller fonts. So it seems that it
wants /usr/share/fonts/?dpi. But if /usr/share/fonts/misc/ comes
first, xterm crashes.

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Andrej Rode]

>> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
>> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
>> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.

Then you might found a bug? With predictable network names the name of
your device depends on the PCIe slot/address it is in. If you change
positions in the board your names should change, not on reboot.

And you might believe it or not, running Linux on servers is much more
popular than running Linux on your home desktop. Thus I'd guess things
tend to be made easier for people with more than one network card.
Certainly you don't want rely on random device enumeration order on
reboot if you run a webserver with multiple network devices.

If you want to disable this on hosts running systemd read [0].

Cheers,
Andrej

[0]
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[lee]

Jorge Almeida  writes:

> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:46 AM, lee  wrote:
>
>>>
>> I'm using fvwm.  I was having trouble with xterm once when I still used
>> Fedora, and though I'm not sure, results might be different with
>> different WMs (I seem to remember something about that).
>
> I tried fvwm and there was no difference. Not a WM problem. Never
> thought it would be, really.
>
> It is a voodoo (i.e. fonts)  problem. Things work for me now, with -fp
> in the Xserver command line and /usr/share/fonts/Type1/ before
> /usr/share/fonts/misc/. I would prefer to understand what happens
> rather than blindly apply a fix, but anyway.

Does xterm use different fonts for the menu depending on in which order
the directories appear in the font path?


> [...]
>> perl -e 'print "$_\n" foreach(split(/,/, 
>> "/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/OTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,built-ins"));'
>>  | xargs ls
>>
>> ... shows files in each directory, except 'built-ins', of course.
>>
>>
>> That brings up the question if there is some alternative to perls split
>> in coreutils or bash.  The split of coreutils appears to be supposed to
>> be doing something rather useless?
>>
> Well, let's use Perl, by all means :) BTW, what does the busybox version do?

Sure, yet it can't be the only way for doing this.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

Daniel Frey  writes:

> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
>> "Walter Dnes"  writes:
>> 
>>>   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
>>> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
>> 
>> Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.
>
> Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
> workstation/server boards have two ports.
>
> i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.

It is not reasonable to assume that a "typical home user" would want a
computer with a crappy board to run Linux on it (or for anything
else). If they are that cheap, they're better off buying a used one.
When they are sufficiently clueless to want something like that, what
does it matter what the network interfaces are called.

>>> Now the name varies in each machine depending on the motherboard
>>> layout; oogabooga11? foobar42?  It may be static, but you don't know
>>> what it'll be, without first booting the machine.  In a truly
>>> Orwellian twist, this "feature" is referred to as "Predictable"
>>> Network Interface Names.  It only makes things easier for corporate
>>> machines acting as gateways/routers, with multiple ports.  Again, the
>>> average home user is being jerked around for a corporate agenda.
>> 
>> Perhaps the hidden agenda was to make the names indistinguishable and
>> unrecognisable, forcing everyone to use copy and paste --- after at
>> least double-checking which port is which --- to eliminate human and
>> typing errors in order to get more predictable results.
>> 
>> Otherwise, how would using unrecognisable names for network ports make
>> anything easier for corporate machines?
>> 
>
> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.

I haven't had that happen with the unrecognisable names.  Aren't they
supposed to prevent things like that?

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[Jorge Almeida]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
 Jorge
>>
>
> Actually, I just had a thought. I stumbled onto a very weird fonts bug
> some years ago where Firefox would crash on loading certain pages. It
> was something very stupid, all fonts need to have world-readable
> permissions. If a font didn't FF would crash (it didn't handle fonts not
> being available gracefully AT ALL.)
>
> I chmod 644 the whole fonts directory and ran `fc-cache -fv` and it
> fixed the crashing Firefox.
>
> I wonder if xterm is running into not being able to open a font?
>
All files in /usr/share/fonts/* have 644 permissions.

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[Daniel Frey]

On 12/18/2016 09:28 AM, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
>> On 12/18/2016 07:25 AM, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>>>
>>> The logs complain about helvetica, and I found similar stuff in the
>>> net (not necessarilly about xterm). This appears to be a font problem,
>>> which is essentially voodoo to me. xterm crashing instead of just
>>> failing to bring up the menu seems to be an xterm bug indeed, but the
>>> real problem is what to do to solve the missing fonts problem.
>>>
>>
>> Try installing liberation-fonts and enabling them with `eselect
>> fontconfig`. I had all sorts of display problems with Helvetica in
>> Firefox until I added that package.
>>
> Done. Still no joy.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jorge
> 

Actually, I just had a thought. I stumbled onto a very weird fonts bug
some years ago where Firefox would crash on loading certain pages. It
was something very stupid, all fonts need to have world-readable
permissions. If a font didn't FF would crash (it didn't handle fonts not
being available gracefully AT ALL.)

I chmod 644 the whole fonts directory and ran `fc-cache -fv` and it
fixed the crashing Firefox.

I wonder if xterm is running into not being able to open a font?

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[Daniel Frey]

On 12/18/2016 09:28 AM, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 8:34 AM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
>> On 12/18/2016 07:25 AM, Jorge Almeida wrote:
>>>
>>> The logs complain about helvetica, and I found similar stuff in the
>>> net (not necessarilly about xterm). This appears to be a font problem,
>>> which is essentially voodoo to me. xterm crashing instead of just
>>> failing to bring up the menu seems to be an xterm bug indeed, but the
>>> real problem is what to do to solve the missing fonts problem.
>>>
>>
>> Try installing liberation-fonts and enabling them with `eselect
>> fontconfig`. I had all sorts of display problems with Helvetica in
>> Firefox until I added that package.
>>
> Done. Still no joy.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jorge
> 

I hate font problems...

Did you install any fonts manually? Was the font cache stale?

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Daniel Frey]

On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote:
> "Walter Dnes"  writes:
> 
>>   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
>> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.
> 
> Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.

Not in any of the computers I've built. Generally only high end or
workstation/server boards have two ports.

i.e. not what the typical home user would buy.

> 
>> Now the name varies in each machine depending on the motherboard
>> layout; oogabooga11? foobar42?  It may be static, but you don't know
>> what it'll be, without first booting the machine.  In a truly
>> Orwellian twist, this "feature" is referred to as "Predictable"
>> Network Interface Names.  It only makes things easier for corporate
>> machines acting as gateways/routers, with multiple ports.  Again, the
>> average home user is being jerked around for a corporate agenda.
> 
> Perhaps the hidden agenda was to make the names indistinguishable and
> unrecognisable, forcing everyone to use copy and paste --- after at
> least double-checking which port is which --- to eliminate human and
> typing errors in order to get more predictable results.
> 
> Otherwise, how would using unrecognisable names for network ports make
> anything easier for corporate machines?
> 

It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network
names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than
once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[Jorge Almeida]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:46 AM, lee  wrote:

>>
> I'm using fvwm.  I was having trouble with xterm once when I still used
> Fedora, and though I'm not sure, results might be different with
> different WMs (I seem to remember something about that).

I tried fvwm and there was no difference. Not a WM problem. Never
thought it would be, really.

It is a voodoo (i.e. fonts)  problem. Things work for me now, with -fp
in the Xserver command line and /usr/share/fonts/Type1/ before
/usr/share/fonts/misc/. I would prefer to understand what happens
rather than blindly apply a fix, but anyway.

>

> Font Path:
>   
> /usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/OTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,built-ins
>
>
> That's by default.
>
> perl -e 'print "$_\n" foreach(split(/,/, 
> "/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/OTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,built-ins"));'
>  | xargs ls
>
> ... shows files in each directory, except 'built-ins', of course.
>
>
> That brings up the question if there is some alternative to perls split
> in coreutils or bash.  The split of coreutils appears to be supposed to
> be doing something rather useless?
>
Well, let's use Perl, by all means :) BTW, what does the busybox version do?

Jorge

Re: [gentoo-user] xterm menu

[lee]

Jorge Almeida  writes:

> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 1:44 PM, lee  wrote:
>> Jorge Almeida  writes:
>>
>
>>
>> This works for me:
>>
>
> Nope. No change.
>
>>
>> Perhaps it has to do with a font not being available in the size needed
>> for the menu?
>>
>
> Maybe, but I'm out of ideas.
>
>
>>
>>> can't imagine why the menu would require an "usable ISO8859 font"...
>>
>> Try using another window manager?
>>
> This implies installing another WM. I'll try fvwm. Never thought the
> problem might be with the WM (openbox, a very unproblematic WM)
>
>
> Thanks

I'm using fvwm.  I was having trouble with xterm once when I still used
Fedora, and though I'm not sure, results might be different with
different WMs (I seem to remember something about that).

Other than that, there's a program called, IIRC, 'map' (available with
Fedora, apparently not with Gentoo) which would show the memory usage of
a process in detail.  It also showed memory being used for fonts.  So if
we can find such a program, we might be able to find out which fonts are
being used by xterm and see if there's a difference.


PS:

Font Path:
  
/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/OTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,built-ins


That's by default.

perl -e 'print "$_\n" foreach(split(/,/, 
"/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/OTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/,built-ins"));'
 | xargs ls

... shows files in each directory, except 'built-ins', of course.


That brings up the question if there is some alternative to perls split
in coreutils or bash.  The split of coreutils appears to be supposed to
be doing something rather useless?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

"Walter Dnes"  writes:

>   Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one
> ethernet port, and in the past it's always been eth0.

Since 10 years or so, the default is two ports.

> Now the name varies in each machine depending on the motherboard
> layout; oogabooga11? foobar42?  It may be static, but you don't know
> what it'll be, without first booting the machine.  In a truly
> Orwellian twist, this "feature" is referred to as "Predictable"
> Network Interface Names.  It only makes things easier for corporate
> machines acting as gateways/routers, with multiple ports.  Again, the
> average home user is being jerked around for a corporate agenda.

Perhaps the hidden agenda was to make the names indistinguishable and
unrecognisable, forcing everyone to use copy and paste --- after at
least double-checking which port is which --- to eliminate human and
typing errors in order to get more predictable results.

Otherwise, how would using unrecognisable names for network ports make
anything easier for corporate machines?

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[lee]

Alan McKinnon  writes:

>> That doesn't keep me from noticing that what is being said is very
>> different from what is being done.  If the bunch of people wants to
>> change that, /they/ need to do so.
>> 
>
>
> I recommend you brush up on your social skills.
>
> Figuring out what people really mean as opposed to what they say
> (because those 2 never map exactly) is a very useful skill to cultivate,
> things are seldom as they appear to your eyes.

No problem, I already figured it out.  That still doesn't mean anyone
else could solve their problem for them.

Re: [gentoo-user] Reading the (SSL) traffic with Pale Moon

[Miroslav Rovis]

I need to correct what I wrote... Things are *not* as bad as I
misunderstood...

On 161219-18:17+0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
...
> ...
> 
> The NSS library that Palemoon uses (as I posted on that link above) is,
> IIUC, ancient (paste from about:support):

Nope! But see below...

> NSS   3.19.5.0 Basic ECC  3.19.5.0 Basic ECC
> 
> See in your own portage:
> 
> # cd /usr/portage/dev-libs/nss/
> # grep 'bug #' ChangeLog  | cut -d# -f2 | sed 's/)//' | sed 's/\.//' \
>   | sed 's/\.//'|sort -u
> 564834
> 571086
> 574848
> 576862
> 585372
> #
> 
> Of the above Gentoo Bugzilla bugs, only the last one (585372) is not about 
> vulns but
> about stable request ("=dev-libs/nss-3.23 stable request").
> 
> So all of these:
Really not!


There is talk of 3.19.2.1 and 3.19.4 ...
>  overflow, integer overflow (CVE-2015-{7181,7182,7183})
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=564834
[There is talk of 3.19.2.1 and 3.19.4]
on 2015-11-03 20:19:00 UTC here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=564834#c0

I don't know about this one, but probably it doesn't apply to what Pale
Moon either...
> (CVE-2015-7575, CVE-2016-1938) -  signature allows attack on client certificate authentication (part of SLOTH
> attack), miscalculations in bignum lib (CVE-2015-7575, CVE-2016-1938) 
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571086

This bug #574848
> dev-libs/nss-3.22[utils] - multilib-minimal_abi_src_install - !!! dobin:
> checkcert does not exist
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574848
is entirely local error within Gentoo

And there is talk of .19.2.3 ...
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576862#c0
>   vulnerabilities (CVE-2016-{1950..1979}, CVE-2016-{2790..2802})
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576862
[And there is talk of .19.2.3]
on 2016-03-09 14:42:36 UTC here:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576862#c0
> 
...
> No addons/extensions yet (not even the eff-https-everywhere, the browser
> functionalities minimized, privacy browsing set to always, though, and
> I'll show that too. Ah, no tracking protection in Pale Moon, we'll see
> to that...  But later I'll make page 2 with that cast/trace pair.
> 
> ( And, regarding the short post by taii...@gmx.com
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/user/320794#320794
> also something to fake browser fingerprinting, probably start looking from:
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Tor )
> 

And whether the NSS that Pale Moon uses is fine, maybe some of the devs
can tell us, I apologize for for having made too hasty and very probably
wrong conclusion in regard...

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

[Michael Mol]

On Sunday, December 18, 2016 2:59:36 PM EST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long list
> of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four blocks
> that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the existing
> versions with emerge -C and continued.
> 
> Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked (I
> should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok. Then, on
> continuing with emerge -uaDvU, another whole load of blocks arose, mostly
> from portage trying to pull back in the versions of packages that had just
> been superseded.
> 
> There seemed to be no way out of that, so I took my sledge-hammer and
> started an emerge -e world. No blocks were reported, so I think I might be
> getting away with it. I'm about half-way through so far, and I'm writing
> this via webmail.
> 
> So, tread warily, anyone who is offered 16.12.0 versions of 148 kde-apps
> packages.

Try running emerge with, e.g. --backtrack=1000.

So, I've been running with a massive set of package.unmask for all of KDE-
Frameworks, Qt, Plasma and KDE-Applications. I also have a cron job handling 
updates for me every evening. By an large it's worked fine...until a couple 
weeks ago.

At that point, I wound up with a ton of slot conflicts that didn't make any 
sense to me, but I figured they were tree issues that would work themselves 
out. They didn't, and were getting in the way of a security update I needed, 
so finally I dove in and devoted some time to it this morning. I tried 
unmerging all of dev-qt/*, but that didn't solve the problem completely; 
portage was still unable to work its way around a simple upgrade from perl 
5.22 to 5.23. Once I threw in --backtrack=1000, it started swimming right 
along.

It *seems* like the default backtrack value, 3, is simply too low for someone 
like me who runs with --deep and --with-bdeps=y in EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS; once I 
bumped the backtrack value, portage was able to work its way through the 
dependency tree just fine.

Re: [gentoo-user] Reading the (SSL) traffic with Pale Moon

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 161219-12:16+0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> On 161218-15:29-0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
...
> First, I installed Pale Moon, but by no means is the task over.
> 
> And not just because I had issues, i.e. couldn't log into Pale Moon forum:
> 
> SSL-key logging with Pale Moon (the current title)
> http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161218-palemoon/
> ( and great if we get some insight here by seniors as to why the
> apparent *fork bomb* or something happened ).
> 
> ( Pls. do note that Pale Moon can SSL-key log just fine, except, it's an
> old version of the nss library that Pale Moon uses, which is likely not
> a good thing. )
...

The NSS library that Palemoon uses (as I posted on that link above) is,
IIUC, ancient (paste from about:support):

NSS 3.19.5.0 Basic ECC  3.19.5.0 Basic ECC

See in your own portage:

# cd /usr/portage/dev-libs/nss/
# grep 'bug #' ChangeLog  | cut -d# -f2 | sed 's/)//' | sed 's/\.//' \
| sed 's/\.//'|sort -u
564834
571086
574848
576862
585372
#

Of the above Gentoo Bugzilla bugs, only the last one (585372) is not about 
vulns but
about stable request ("=dev-libs/nss-3.23 stable request").

So all of these:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=564834

(CVE-2015-7575, CVE-2016-1938) - https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=571086

dev-libs/nss-3.22[utils] - multilib-minimal_abi_src_install - !!! dobin:
checkcert does not exist
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=574848

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576862

[all of the above] speak of serious security risks with the then version of
NSS, and Pale Moon uses a version of the NSS that predates any patches to
those bugs. If I understand correctly.

In the meantime, I have retried to log into Pale Moon forum, same issue
shows up. And yet another time I retired. And it's consistent
behavior... Maybe because now the forum thinks I tried many times
before, which is just not the case by any means!

And for that try, I cleared the cache, and get a cast/trace pair short,
and clean event, no other, or not much other conversations, but those
with the Pale Moon Forum (and its requests, true, which are a lot of
requests...).

No addons/extensions yet (not even the eff-https-everywhere, the browser
functionalities minimized, privacy browsing set to always, though, and
I'll show that too. Ah, no tracking protection in Pale Moon, we'll see
to that...  But later I'll make page 2 with that cast/trace pair.

( And, regarding the short post by taii...@gmx.com
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/user/320794#320794
also something to fake browser fingerprinting, probably start looking from:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Tor )

So what should I think of Pale Moon, regarding the SSL-key logging, but
with that ancient NSS?

Aaarggghhh!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Alan McKinnon  wrote:
> The truth is, as designs
> go, sysvinit is a /terrible/ design. It only lasted 30 years because it
> forces all the tricky bits to be someone else's problem
>

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying "terrible" - it does what it does
reasonably well.  I just doesn't do much.  When people compare
"systemd vs sysvinit" they're usually comparing systemd vs some other
service manager, since all sysvinit does on 99% of installations is
spawn some gettys and run the service manager.

One of the things that is obviously missing from sysvinit is the
ability to make non-persistent runtime changes.  You can tell it to
re-read inittab, but you can't say "please spawn 1 more getty, but
don't do that next boot."  The closest you could get to that is
modifying inittab, refreshing init, then restoring inittab and not
refreshing init.

Systemd makes gettys just an instanced service, and you can of course
start/stop those at will.  I believe you can also feed systemd a unit
without actually putting it on disk anywhere, though I'd need to
double-check that.  Since it uses D-Bus there is a lot you can do with
it via IPC, and in fact that is how the various helper programs
actually work.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Alan McKinnon]

On 19/12/2016 16:52, Marc Joliet wrote:

...

> I'm not convinced that you actually understand systemd particularly well.  It 
> seems to me that if you want to develop an informed opinion about it, you 
> should:
> 
> a) Read the official documentation (don't just rely on what others say; even 
> when well-intentioned, people can say stupid things).
> 
> b) Try to set up and/or run a systemd-based system, and seriously try to grok 
> it.  Only then will you be able to compare it to other init systems properly.

...

I feel the same way.

systemd is declarative and simple variables in a unit define what you
want. This makes sense - the list of what management functions a service
supports is a very short list - start/stop/restart/status. Apart from
configtest (a la Apache) what else is there really?

systemd could be the poster child for the declarative style and knock
ansible off it's perch where it currently reigns :-)

Looking at SysVInit, it's only real grace is that it's been around for
30+ years. But it defers all decisions to the daemon author/packager;
after a short while the ecosystem is so cluttered with weird scripts,
that packagers resort to bolting a declarative layer on top of init
scripts, as in the boilerplate you mentioned. The truth is, as designs
go, sysvinit is a /terrible/ design. It only lasted 30 years because it
forces all the tricky bits to be someone else's problem

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Marc Joliet]

On Sunday 18 December 2016 00:36:15 Heiko Baums wrote:
> Am 18.12.2016 um 00:23 schrieb Andrej Rode:
> > For reference did you try to write an init script for a piece of
> > software in SysVInit, systemd and OpenRC to be able to compare them?
> 
> Yes, at least I had to read a lot of them. And init scripts are really a
> lot easier to write and read than such a systemd service file,

Personally, I find OpenRC scripts and systemd unit files comparable, at least 
in my limited experience with writing OpenRC init scripts.  When people 
compare systemd unit files to init scripts, they usually mean *raw* (LSB?) 
sysvinit scripts (as IIUC Debian use{s,d}), with all of their ridiculous 
amounts of boilerplate.  OpenRC-style scripts, if done the modern, declarative 
way (which I have), are also fairly easy to read and write.  But then you're 
almost writing them like systemd units: mostly setting a bunch of variables 
that say *what* you want, not *how* you want it (you know, declarative), see 
openrc-run(8).

(Of course OpenRC is not the only alternative, but I don't know enough about 
others to be able to comment on them.)

> particularly you can separate the configuration to another file while
> you need to copy the whole service file to another place in which it
> won't be updated by the package manager if a new version would be released.

That is incorrect, systemd allows for overriding files in 
/etc/systemd/system/${unit_name}.d/*.conf.  Furthermore, service units can 
read environment variables from a file via EnvironmentFile.  Although I'll 
grant you that AFAIK there's no convention for where place for them.

I'm not convinced that you actually understand systemd particularly well.  It 
seems to me that if you want to develop an informed opinion about it, you 
should:

a) Read the official documentation (don't just rely on what others say; even 
when well-intentioned, people can say stupid things).

b) Try to set up and/or run a systemd-based system, and seriously try to grok 
it.  Only then will you be able to compare it to other init systems properly.

I did a variation on (b) and migrated one of my systems to systemd, just so I 
could see what it was like.  Up until then I had only read about how "anti-
Unix" and "bloated" and "evil" etc. systemd was by one side, and how "super 
duper awesome" it was from another side, thus I was very cautious at first.  
Quite frankly, in retrospect I suspect that that divide in opinion is what 
really compelled me to try it for myself.  And that first-hand experience was 
very important, because I was able to learn for myself the good and bad of 
systemd.  In the end, for me, personally, it turned out that there was more 
good than bad, so I stuck with it.

> Heiko Baums

Greetings
-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

[J. Roeleveld]

On Monday, December 19, 2016 09:45:21 AM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> > On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> > 
> > wrote :
> > > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
> > > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
> > > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > > 
> > > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
> > 
> > (I
> > 
> > > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > > 
> > > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> > 
> > emerge
> > 
> > > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before
> > > starting
> > > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > > 
> > > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the
> > > new
> > > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
> > 
> > gone.
> > 
> > More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a
> whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before:
> incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had
> @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.

Me neither, although I do wonder if it maybe caches something somewhere.
I did just now have a preserved-rebuild after a depclean action.
(This was after a clean update and no preserved-rebuild necessary prior to the 
depclean)

> I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get
> a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c
> %u. If you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I
> trust it, so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail
> executable, aborting execution"
> 
> What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB
> disk and back again? I know, I know...

Did you include all the permissions in the tar during compression and 
extraction?

> Has no-one else tried this upgrade?

No, did try today, but as it has a conflict with dependencies for kmymoney 
(which isn't yet for slot 5), I am unwilling to proceed on this laptop.

I will test my desktop later today/this week.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Reading the (SSL) traffic with Pale Moon, WAS: from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA? Youtube... Audio: No

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 161218-15:29-0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 07:43:47PM +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote
> 
> > [So I don't understand why you] thought dbus was needed to be disabled
> > by other means, than the (as yet still) unofficial repo/overlay?)
> > 
> > Or am I missing something?
> 
>   You are looking at the Pale Moon overlay.  I did not know about it
> when I first used Pale Moon.  I originally downloaded the official
> version tarball from http://linux.palemoon.org/ which needs dbus.  I
> built Pale Moon from source with several changes in the mozconfig file.
> I also built it with gcc 5.4.0 with additional optimization.  Gentoo
> stable currently uses gcc 4.9.3.
Pasting from my about:buildconfig :

CompilerVersion Compiler flags
gcc 5.4.0   -Wall -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wempty-body
-Wpointer-to-int-cast -Wsign-compare -Wtype-limits -Wno-unused
-Wcast-align -march=native -pipe -std=gnu99 -fgnu89-inline
-fno-strict-aliasing -fno-math-errno -pthread -pipe
>   dbus was included in the original code from Firefox before the forking
> took place for a few reasons...
I see. 
> * "necko-wifi" for improved geo-location, which you probably do not want.
>   Since Pale Moon is separate from Firefox, they don't have a licence to
>   use Google's wifi database.
> 
> * WebRTC.  I don't think it's enabled on the official version
> 
> * "WakeLock".  *IF YOU HAVE A SCREENSAVER THAT COMMUNICATES VIA DBUS*
>   then Pale Moon can ask it to temporarily disable screensaving while
>   you are playing a long video.
Those are not there in my Pale Moon (in clone-machine only yet, as I
explained in my other reply email to this message), again pasting from
my about:buildconfig :

Configure arguments
--enable-application=browser --disable-install-strip
--enable-optimize=-O2 --disable-valgrind --disable-dbus
--disable-necko-wifi --enable-gstreamer --disable-webrtc --enable-alsa
--disable-pulseaudio --enable-official-branding
--enable-default-toolkit=cairo-gtk2

> -- 
> Walter Dnes 
> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
> 
And I'm very curious to learn how to install in Air-Gapped, from git,
through intermediary action, that is acceptable, but in a verifiable
way, as I asked in my other reply email to this message.

Just in case (pasting from about:support):

NamePale Moon
Version 27.0.2
Build ID20161218222634
...
User Agent  Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.9) Gecko/20100101
Goanna/3.0 Firefox/45.9 PaleMoon/27.0.2

Regards!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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Re: [gentoo-user] Reading the (SSL) traffic with Pale Moon, WAS: from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA? Youtube... Audio: No

[Miroslav Rovis]

On 161218-15:29-0500, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 07:43:47PM +0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote
> 
> > [So I don't understand why you] thought dbus was needed to be disabled
> > by other means, than the (as yet still) unofficial repo/overlay?)
> > 
> > Or am I missing something?
> 
>   You are looking at the Pale Moon overlay.  I did not know about it
> when I first used Pale Moon.  I originally downloaded the official
> version tarball from http://linux.palemoon.org/ which needs dbus.  I
... 

I'll look at those later, likely in the next, or some later email.

First, I installed Pale Moon, but by no means is the task over.

And not just because I had issues, i.e. couldn't log into Pale Moon forum:

SSL-key logging with Pale Moon (the current title)
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161218-palemoon/
( and great if we get some insight here by seniors as to why the
apparent *fork bomb* or something happened ).

( Pls. do note that Pale Moon can SSL-key log just fine, except, it's an
old version of the nss library that Pale Moon uses, which is likely not
a good thing. )

But even more, because I only really install in my master Air-Gapped
Gentoo --link missing, because I haven't transferred my bookmarks yet...
(
No, I just installed, it's completely trivial, via GUi, takes in the the
Firefox bookmark JSON just fine...):

Air-Gapped Gentoo Install, Tentative
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-987268.html
)
link not missing--

...and I really install only what I can verify.

So, is there anywhere that I can read on the Wiki, where I can figure
out how I could git-install in completely verifiable way? Plus...

Plus: I want to be able to clone that install, from this online clone to
my master Air-Gapped installation, how?

One thing I never stop being excited about it the emerge-webrsync and
the fact that every package in Gentoo is verifiably signed by the Releng
team, and that's as safe as you can get in any distro in the world. The
best!

Now came the git install, with the git pack thing and all. May be very
safe, but how do I know it? How do I verify it?

I remember having read, either on gentoo-dev or on the wiki, or
somewhere else, that some devs do have this concern that I also voiced
here...

Any advice will be appreciated!
-- 
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr


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[gentoo-user] font path [WAS: xterm menu]

[Jorge Almeida]

I managed to detect the twofold origin of my
xterm-crashing-on-Ctrl+click problem:

.Xresources has a line
XTerm*geometry:  80x22

It should be
XTerm*VT100.geometry:  80x22

It seems this is a common error (source:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xterm#Menus)

The other is the font path: I had (reported by "xset q"):
/usr/share/fonts/misc/,/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,/usr/share/fonts/Type1/,/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/

This is more or less what the man page for Xserver says is the
default. However, the first entry is breaking things: removing
/usr/share/fonts/misc/ causes xterm to have the expected behaviour re
menus. So, what is wrong here?

$ ls /usr/share/fonts/misc/
10x20.pcf.gz6x10.pcf.gz   7x13O.pcf.gz  9x15B.pcf.gz   fonts.scale
12x13ja.pcf.gz  6x12.pcf.gz   7x13.pcf.gz   9x15.pcf.gzk14.pcf.gz
18x18ja.pcf.gz  6x13B.pcf.gz  7x14B.pcf.gz  9x18B.pcf.gz   micro.pcf.gz
18x18ko.pcf.gz  6x13O.pcf.gz  7x14.pcf.gz   9x18.pcf.gznil2.pcf.gz
4x6.pcf.gz  6x13.pcf.gz   8x13B.pcf.gz  encodings.dir
5x7.pcf.gz  6x9.pcf.gz8x13O.pcf.gz  fonts.alias
5x8.pcf.gz  7x13B.pcf.gz  8x13.pcf.gz   fonts.dir

Should I remove /usr/share/fonts/misc/ from the font path? Will it not
break something else?
And what is the standard way to set the font path? I know I can do it
via the -fp flag of Xorg (I start X via xinit), but I assume most
people don't do this.

Thanks,

Jorge Almeida

Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

[Alan McKinnon]

On 19/12/2016 11:45, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> J. Roeleveld  wrote :
> 
>> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
>>> Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
>> wrote :
 This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
 list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
 blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
 existing versions with emerge -C and continued.

 Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
>> (I
 should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
>>>
>>> I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
>> emerge
>>> -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting
>>> the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
>>>
>>> At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new
>>> 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
>> gone.
>>
>> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a 
> whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before: 
> incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had 
> @preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.
> 
> I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get 
> a dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c %u. 
> If you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I trust it, 
> so I click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail executable, 
> aborting execution"
> 
> What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB 
> disk and back again? I know, I know...
> 
> Has no-one else tried this upgrade?
> 


Not KMail, it stopped using that since years ago.

But I do notice that a bucket load of new KDE-5 packages are hitting the
tree, and despite having SLOTS 4 and 5, some of those packages are
incompatible, such as audiocd-kio. I'm stuck on SLOT 4 for the time
being as amarok is still codes for KDE-4 libs (unless there's a 5
version in some overlay).

This is all ~arch, so we are the ones who get to file the bug reports.
I advise just work through the blockers till the latest batch of
versions settle down and are all done.

As for your executable problem, what are the owners/perms of the
relevant file?


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Portage not so nonsense : solved

[Philip Webb]

161218 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> 161218 Philip Webb wrote:
>> I want to see which pkgs might have updates available in 'testing',
>> so I enter, where 'emergeu' = 'ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64" emerge'
>>  USE="openssl qt5 text ruby_targets_ruby23 widgets gui network
>>   printsupport" emergeu -DNup world
>> Portage replies (after some other irrelevant stuff) :
>> !!! The ebuild selected to satisfy "app-crypt/pinentry" has unmet
>> requirements.
>> - app-crypt/pinentry-1.0.0::gentoo USE="-caps -emacs -gnome-keyring gtk
>> ncurses qt4 qt5 -static" ABI_X86="64"
>> 
>>   The following REQUIRED_USE flag constraints are unsatisfied:
>> at-most-one-of ( qt4 qt5 )
>> 
>> The above constraints are a subset of the following complete
>> expression:
>> any-of ( ncurses gtk qt4 qt5 ) gtk? ( !static ) qt4? ( !static ) qt5? (
>> !static ) static? ( ncurses ) at-most-one-of ( qt4 qt5 )
>> 
>>   (dependency required by "app-crypt/gnupg-2.1.16::gentoo" [ebuild])
>>   (dependency required by "kde-base/kdelibs-4.14.27::gentoo" [ebuild])
>> (dependency required by "kde-base/katepart-4.14.3::gentoo" [installed])
> Somewhere, qt4 is set.
> This might be in a profile, as default or in /etc/portage/...

Yes, it was in  make.conf  (red face).
I forgot that the USE list mb extended by flags set there.

> Alternatively, specify -qt4 in that USE flag list.

I use '-*' in make.conf , so removing  qt4  will suppress it.

161218 Andrej Rode wrote:
> I bet kdelibs-4/katepart-4 is pulling in/setting `qt4` USE flag.

It was also being brought in by a KDE 4 pkg in World, which I've removed.

Sorry for the noise.  Portage needs serious improvement,
but in this case it was my own oversight which was responsible.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT`-O--O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 15:35:38 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:

> Am 17.12.2016 um 14:17 schrieb Neil Bothwick:
> 
> > I'm running the Debian 7 version of Raspbian on a number of Pis, all
> > without systemd. Yes, I am happy using systemd, but I can't be arsed
> > changing them when they continue to work perfectly well.  
> 
> Then explain me how this is done. Btw., Debian's and Raspbian's software
> repositories are somewhat outdated. But that's a different Debian
> related subject.

If you can't work that out for yourself, what are you doing running
Gentoo. I'm stating it can be done, I have neither the time nor the
inclination to document it.

> > Boot from a live CD, like Ubuntu, and read the journals. There's
> > always a solution that doesn't involve flaming.  
> 
> Why would I boot from a Live CD if I have a PC with an installed OS
> particularly just to be able to read some simple log files?
> 
> So, no that's not a reasonable solution.

I never claimed it was reasonable, you asked for a way to read them if
you don't have systemd installed and I suggested a way. It takes seconds
to boot a VM from an Ubuntu ISO. No, it's not elegant, but it does solve
the problem. I do think a standalone reader for systemd journals would
be a nice idea, but I'm not going to code it and I'm certainly not going
to demand t as a right.
 
> And that doesn't have anything to do with flaming. But that's typical
> for those Poettering fanboys, too, since the beginning. They ask for
> "technical" arguments. If "technical" arguments are given to them, then
> those arguments suddenly are no technical arguments. Then this is
> flaming. And Poettering and his fanboys just insult their critics, even
> in the official "technical" systemd documentation.

Technical arguments as opposed to to the ad hominem arguments you prefer?

I am not a fanboy, I like some of the features of systemd while others
really annoy me. I run a several systems without systemd simply because I
see no point in changing a working system.

But if you intend to dismiss anyone with a standpoint that does not
precisely align with yours as a fanboy, there is no point in continuing
this discussion. I am sorry that the pointers I gave do not meet your
exacting standards and promise to refrain from doing so again.

> > When I first tried systemd, I wasn't confident of my ability to work
> > with the journal, so I installed syslog-ng and had traditional log
> > files alongside the journal. In fact I ran it like that for quite
> > some because the log monitor I was using didn't work with the
> > journal.  
> 
> Yes, that's the solution. Install an old very well tested and useful
> system logger which does the job perfectly on its own alongside of a
> crappy system logger just to be able to read the binary log files again
> with simple system tools which come along with EVERY distro like cat,
> less, grep etc. And running two programs which have the same purpose in
> the background don't need more system resources then just running one of
> them, particularly on hardware like the Pi?
> 
> Did you and the other Poettering fanboys think about this logic? I guess
> not.

Excellent, adding distortion to the ad hominem insults. I was simply
pointing out that systemd does not preclude the use of an alternative
logger.
 
> > I never said it was easy.  
> 
> Should be easy.

Why? Because you demand so?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn!


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Re: [gentoo-user] At last! A Qt5 version of KMail-2 - but here be dragons!

[Peter Humphrey]

J. Roeleveld  wrote :

> On Sunday, December 18, 2016 03:11:58 PM Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk>
> wrote :
> > > This morning I ran my usual daily update and was presented with a long
> > > list of kde-app packages, including KMail-2. The only problem was four
> > > blocks that portage couldn't sort out on its own, so I evicted the
> > > existing versions with emerge -C and continued.
> > > 
> > > Then kleopatra failed to build, as in bug 602924. The fix there worked
> (I
> > > should call it an evasion really) and kleopatra built ok.
> > 
> > I should have done some more checking before writing. The fix was to
> emerge
> > -C kde-apps/gpgmepp. I don't know whether you can do that before starting
> > the upgrade, but it's worth a try. It might save a lot of work.
> > 
> > At any rate, there's no sign of gpgmepp being pulled back in with the new
> > 16.12.0 versions of kde-apps packages, now that the old versions have
> gone.
> 
> More important, how is the latest kmail behaving?

It isn't.

I finished the emerge -e world, then @preserved-rebuild presented me with a 
whole lot of packages, resulting in the same appalling mess as before: 
incompatible versions being required of numerous packages. I've never had 
@preserved-rebuild follow an -e world before.

I've reverted to a week-old system backup, but now when I invoke KMail I get a 
dialogue box saying "This will start the program kmail -qwindowtitle %c %u. If 
you do not trust this program, click Cancel". What? Of course I trust it, so I 
click Continue, and I get "Unable to make the service KMail executable, 
aborting execution"

What could possible go wrong with a simple offline tarring of files to USB disk 
and back again? I know, I know...

Has no-one else tried this upgrade?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2016 00:36:15 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:

> > For reference did you try to write an init script for a piece of
> > software in SysVInit, systemd and OpenRC to be able to compare them?  
> 
> Yes, at least I had to read a lot of them. And init scripts are really a
> lot easier to write and read than such a systemd service file,
> particularly you can separate the configuration to another file while
> you need to copy the whole service file to another place in which it
> won't be updated by the package manager if a new version would be
> released.

No you don't.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who
think.(Horace Walpole)


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