Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration
Am Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 04:13:19PM -0400 schrieb Philip Webb:
> Since then, it hasn't worked out very well
> & I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5).
What hasn’t worked out specifically?
> I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 ,
> to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming.
As Mark already mentioned – PCIe speed has no impact on compile times. It’s
only used for communication between CPU and {GPU, NVMe, Chipset}, or between
GPU and RAM.
> I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order,
> in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store.
So you built the Ryzen system we talked about, and now want to start over?
> my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 , you don't get CPU graphics,
> but have to buy a separate graphics card ;
> if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0.
That’s the way with AM3-socket APUs. It won’t be with AM4, but those are
probably still a year away (at least half a year).
Also, the new AM4 CPUs all have a basic iGPU inside, much like most Intels
have had until now. They won’t be much to write home about, but will be
sufficient for office and desktop.
> I might be willing to get an Intel CPU,
> but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) :
> is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ?
When I need such information, I like to go to Wikipedia. It has everything
under one roof, often in very similar formats for both vendors. Here’s a
description of Intel’s recent generation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Lake
And as you can see, those have 16×PCIe 5 for the graphics slot and another
4×4.0, probably for NVMe. The chipset is connected via Intel’s proprietary
DMI and connects to more mass storage, USB etc.
> Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ?
Well, we suggested stuff and advised on things. Please elaborate what hasn’t
worked out for you and why.
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Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.
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Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration
On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:45 PM Mark Knecht wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:13 PM Philip Webb wrote: > > > > Look for an AMD X570 chipset MB. I think you can find what you're looking for. > > HTH, > Mark > BTW - I don't think PCIe 4.0 would, in this sort of machine, have much to do with compile times. This level of machine has an NVMe flash drive for the system disk. My machine has 2 1TB NVMe SSDs and no mechanical drives.
Re: [gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration
On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 1:13 PM Philip Webb wrote: > > Back in April 2022, I asked for advice here re parts for a new machine (ANB6) > & got some very helpful info (thanks to everyone). > Since then, it hasn't worked out very well > & I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5). > > I want an AMD CPU, based on past experience ; > I prefer a Gigabyte mobo ditto, but will consider other makes. > I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 , > to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming. > I would like to avoid a separate graphics card, > which are expensive & seem today to be designed for gaming enthusiasts. > I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order, > in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store. > > Looking at the offerings from Canada Computers, my most convenient store, > which I have used for all 5 of my previous home-built machines, > my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 , > you don't get CPU graphics, but have to buy a separate graphics card ; > if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0. > > I might be willing to get an Intel CPU, > but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) : > is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ? > Intel seems to be a quite different world from AMD today. > > Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ? > > -- > ,, > SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb > ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto > TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca > Look for an AMD X570 chipset MB. I think you can find what you're looking for. HTH, Mark
[gentoo-user] new machine : on-going frustration
Back in April 2022, I asked for advice here re parts for a new machine (ANB6) & got some very helpful info (thanks to everyone). Since then, it hasn't worked out very well & I'm still relying on my 7-year-old machine (ANB5). I want an AMD CPU, based on past experience ; I prefer a Gigabyte mobo ditto, but will consider other makes. I would like to have PCIe 4.0 , which is much faster than 3.0 , to improve Gentoo compile times ; I don't do gaming. I would like to avoid a separate graphics card, which are expensive & seem today to be designed for gaming enthusiasts. I want to buy from a physical store, not delivered by an on-line order, in case there's a defect, so that I can easily take it back to the store. Looking at the offerings from Canada Computers, my most convenient store, which I have used for all 5 of my previous home-built machines, my impression is that if you get PCIe 4.0 , you don't get CPU graphics, but have to buy a separate graphics card ; if you have built-in graphics in the CPU, you get only PCIe 3.0. I might be willing to get an Intel CPU, but in their specifications there's no mention of PCIe (3 or 4) : is this an accident or are PCIe's confined to AMD ? Intel seems to be a quite different world from AMD today. Does anyone have any useful advice or suggestions ? -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 18:15:38 +, Laurence Perkins wrote: > Note also that the "init thingy" is nothing more than a little > filesystem which contains everything you'd need to make sure was on > your root partition if you were attempting to boot without one. > > Building one yourself is generally pretty trivial if you don't like > what dracut/genkernel produce. Utilities, kernel modules, and a script > to set up your main system and switch to it. I used to do that before I started using dracut, but dracut is less work to maintain. One nice benefit of doing it yourself is that you can embed the initramfs in the kernel image, meaning you only have one file to manage and once a kernel works it will always work, which may not be the case if you rebuild a separate initramfs. -- Neil Bothwick For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction. pgpDWUHNlb_9n.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
>-Original Message- >From: Neil Bothwick >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 10:35 AM >To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org >Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition > >On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 05:00:25 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> As I said, I do all mine by hand. I don't use make install etc. >> After I build my kernel, I copy it and name it something like this, >> from /boot. > >[snip] >> Once I get that done, I then build the init thingy. This is Neil's >> command that he posted. From my understanding, the kernel symlink >> needs to point to the correct kernel version. >> >> dracut --kver=$(cat include/config/kernel.release) > >This should be run from within the kernel source directory. It picks up the >version from the source so the symlink is irrelevant. > >> That gives a init thingy with a somewhat generic name. I then rename >> it to match the kernel, looks something like this from /boot. > >If you use make install to install the kernel, dracut gives the initramfs a >matching name. > >-- >Neil Bothwick > >Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students. > Note also that the "init thingy" is nothing more than a little filesystem which contains everything you'd need to make sure was on your root partition if you were attempting to boot without one. Building one yourself is generally pretty trivial if you don't like what dracut/genkernel produce. Utilities, kernel modules, and a script to set up your main system and switch to it. At the other end of the spectrum, if you have enough memory, you can just put your whole root filesystem into it and run from there... Did that once for a secure processing system. Everything up through X11 and a web browser all in the initramfs. LMP
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Full battery laptop only 1 hour
>-Original Message- >From: Michael >Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2022 11:01 AM >To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org >Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Full battery laptop only 1 hour > >On Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:10:39 BST Laurence Perkins wrote: >> Note that most batteries these days in anything more complex than a >> watch have "smart" charge controllers and so upower or similar can >> read what their design watt-hours and current maximum capacity are. >> Also, often the total charge or discharge rate. That plus a little >> math should tell you if it's an aging battery or if your machine is >> simply failing to idle down for some reason. > >> LMP > >Larger capacity batteries have multiple banks in them connected in parallel. >Some times one of the banks or its controller(?) fails and while the rest >continue to work, the loss in capacity is a noticeable step change. I recall >suddenly losing ~1/3 of the battery capacity on a laptop just 3 or so happy >years into its life. The remaining of the battery capacity continued to >degrade slowly and gradually over many years. So notwithstanding the high >consumption identified by the OP the software causes of which should be >investigated, there could be also a problem with the battery unit itself. > >BTW, short & frequent top ups of lithium-ion batteries is the best approach to >their charging, while deep discharge can guarantee a shorter effective life. > At the same time, don't make it too short. The charger has to run for a few seconds to a few minutes to determine that the battery is, in fact, full, and repeated overcharging in that manner will destroy the battery in short order. Let it run down at least a few percent before you plug it in again. Their lifetime is generally happiest if you keep them between 50 and 80%. Some packs automatically cut off the charging at the 80% mark and just tell you that it's full in order to increase the cycle count. LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Full battery laptop only 1 hour
On Thursday, 15 September 2022 18:10:39 BST Laurence Perkins wrote: > Note that most batteries these days in anything more complex than a watch > have "smart" charge controllers and so upower or similar can read what > their design watt-hours and current maximum capacity are. Also, often the > total charge or discharge rate. That plus a little math should tell you if > it's an aging battery or if your machine is simply failing to idle down for > some reason. > LMP Larger capacity batteries have multiple banks in them connected in parallel. Some times one of the banks or its controller(?) fails and while the rest continue to work, the loss in capacity is a noticeable step change. I recall suddenly losing ~1/3 of the battery capacity on a laptop just 3 or so happy years into its life. The remaining of the battery capacity continued to degrade slowly and gradually over many years. So notwithstanding the high consumption identified by the OP the software causes of which should be investigated, there could be also a problem with the battery unit itself. BTW, short & frequent top ups of lithium-ion batteries is the best approach to their charging, while deep discharge can guarantee a shorter effective life. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 05:00:25 -0500, Dale wrote: > As I said, I do all mine by hand. I don't use make install etc. After > I build my kernel, I copy it and name it something like this, from > /boot. [snip] > Once I get that done, I then build the init thingy. This is Neil's > command that he posted. From my understanding, the kernel symlink needs > to point to the correct kernel version. > > dracut --kver=$(cat include/config/kernel.release) This should be run from within the kernel source directory. It picks up the version from the source so the symlink is irrelevant. > That gives a init thingy with a somewhat generic name. I then rename it > to match the kernel, looks something like this from /boot. If you use make install to install the kernel, dracut gives the initramfs a matching name. -- Neil Bothwick Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students. pgpIwSabkfpaY.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 06:15:07 -0500, Dale wrote: > I switched to grub2 a while back. I've thought of using something else > but I don't have efi and most of the others are targeted at efi. If I > build a new rig, I'll likely use something else. I'll likely poke Neil > until he reveals what he uses or something. ROFL I use systemd-boot wherever possible, only falling back to GRUB if the BIOS is non-EFI. -- Neil Bothwick "God created the world in six days. On the seventh day he also decided to create England... just to try out his Practical Joke Weather Machine." pgpSOJzaUbvgO.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: Full battery laptop only 1 hour
Note that most batteries these days in anything more complex than a watch have "smart" charge controllers and so upower or similar can read what their design watt-hours and current maximum capacity are. Also, often the total charge or discharge rate. That plus a little math should tell you if it's an aging battery or if your machine is simply failing to idle down for some reason. LMP -Original Message- From: Frank Steinmetzger Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 4:46 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Full battery laptop only 1 hour Am Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 01:51:39PM -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht: > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 1:40 PM Nuno Silva wrote: > > > > On 2022-09-12, Guillermo García wrote: > > > > > Hello guys, > > > > > > I bought a laptop and i got like 4 hours of batter life, > > > everything ok, (using more than 1 vm, etc), however now in idle my > > > laptop has only 1 hour of life, which is really annoying because > > > its a brand new laptop bought one year before. > > > > Did anything change? Is this the same system/install which used to > > last > > 4 hours on idle? Or, when you say "brand new bought one year > > before", you mean it wasn't used before? > > > > -- > > Nuno Silva > > > > Battery life can change over time. I've had batteries that after a > couple of years just didn't last as long. I've purchased a few > replacement batteries from Amazon and one of them didn't hold charge at all. My Thinkpad is 6¼ years old and the batteries it shipped with are at 72 and 75 % of their original capacity. But I didn’t use them *that* much, and always kept them betweet 40 and 80 % charge when I didn’t need them, which is probably 98 % of the year. > 1 year is pretty short but possibly he might buy a new battery as a > test. They generally aren't overly expensive. I don’t believe that they went down to 25 % of their original capacity within a year. To achieve that, they must have endured unspeakable abuse. -- Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’ Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. The three main languages in India: Hindi, English and HTML.
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Thursday, 15 September 2022 11:00:25 BST Dale wrote: > >> ... I then build the init thingy. This is Neil's command that he posted. >> From my understanding, the kernel symlink needs to point to the correct >> kernel version. >> >> dracut --kver=$(cat include/config/kernel.release) > That's the bit I was hoping for. Thanks Dale. > > I don't use grub-2; the very thought of it makes me shudder. I could > contemplate grub-1, but it can't handle EFI. > I switched to grub2 a while back. I've thought of using something else but I don't have efi and most of the others are targeted at efi. If I build a new rig, I'll likely use something else. I'll likely poke Neil until he reveals what he uses or something. ROFL I'm sure you can reorder things to suite the bootloader you use. Glad to help. I certainly get my share of help here. :-D Dale :-) :-) P. S. To all, after my drive move, I copied files that were in sticky mode pending drive moves and now I'm back at 80% again. So, as soon as budget allows, I get to do this again. This time I have notes tho. I know how to do it. ;-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anybody know how to disable CSD for meld?
Am 2022-09-14 23:14, schrieb Grant Edwards: On 2022-09-14, Grant Edwards wrote: OTOH, gtk3-classic is a set of source patches that get added to the "normal" gtk portage directory. I didn't state that very well -- the patches are installed into the /etc/portage/patches directory for gtk+, not into the normal portage db for gtk+. -- Grant Yes, the way the gtk3-classic ebuild in the overlay works is by placing the patches in the portage patches folder. Once rebuilt, the patched gtk+ library will disable CSDs by default, but the behavior can be altered with the GTK_CSD environment variable. Please have a look at the documentation for the details and further caveats. Sincerely, Meik
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
On Thursday, 15 September 2022 11:00:25 BST Dale wrote: > ... I then build the init thingy. This is Neil's command that he posted. > From my understanding, the kernel symlink needs to point to the correct > kernel version. > > dracut --kver=$(cat include/config/kernel.release) That's the bit I was hoping for. Thanks Dale. I don't use grub-2; the very thought of it makes me shudder. I could contemplate grub-1, but it can't handle EFI. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
Peter Humphrey wrote: > On Wednesday, 14 September 2022 23:09:59 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:50:45 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: >>> I'm thinking of separating /usr onto its own partition so that I can >>> have it mounted read-only except while updating it. I'd prefer not to >>> have to make an init thingy, not having needed one up to now. Besides, >>> some machines have things like early-ucode or amd-uc. >> Most of this has already been answered, except for your final point. You >> can load more than one initrd at boot, so you can still apply microcode >> updates. For example, with systemd-boot >> >> titleDesktop >> version 5.15.59-gentoo >> linux/vmlinuz-5.15.59-gentoo >> options root=LABEL=blah blah >> initrd /amd-uc.img >> initrd /initramfs-5.15.59-gentoo.img >> >> I use dracut to create the initrd, which is so straighforward even Dale >> can't break it ;-) > :) > > That seems to be the way to go then - even dinosaurs die out in the end. > Perhaps Dale will show us the command he referred to. > > Thank you all for your help. > As I said, I do all mine by hand. I don't use make install etc. After I build my kernel, I copy it and name it something like this, from /boot. root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/kernel* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11638944 Nov 30 2021 /boot/kernel-5.10.46-2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11863664 Feb 18 2022 /boot/kernel-5.14.15-2 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11881040 Aug 6 18:00 /boot/kernel-5.14.15-3 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12128016 Jun 30 20:00 /boot/kernel-5.18.7-1 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11167744 Nov 30 2021 /boot/kernel-5.6.7-1 root@fireball / # I basically put the version and at times a dash number on the end. Sometimes "-1" may work but I add a driver or something and the next is -2, the next -3 etc. For -3 above, I added a driver for a new network card as a example. Sometimes I clean out older dashed versions. Point is, it needs to start with kernel and go from there. You may have a different way of naming them. I think grub just looks for it to start with kernel. Once I get that done, I then build the init thingy. This is Neil's command that he posted. From my understanding, the kernel symlink needs to point to the correct kernel version. dracut --kver=$(cat include/config/kernel.release) That gives a init thingy with a somewhat generic name. I then rename it to match the kernel, looks something like this from /boot. root@fireball / # ls -al /boot/initramfs* -rw--- 1 root root 9310818 Nov 30 2021 /boot/initramfs-5.10.46-2.img -rw--- 1 root root 9093386 Nov 13 2021 /boot/initramfs-5.14.15-2.img -rw--- 1 root root 9485412 Aug 6 18:01 /boot/initramfs-5.14.15-3.img -rw--- 1 root root 9117155 Jun 30 22:57 /boot/initramfs-5.18.7-1.img -rw--- 1 root root 9310789 Nov 30 2021 /boot/initramfs-5.6.7-1.img root@fireball / # Once you get the two things to match, kernel and initramfs, then when you update grub, it will match them together and create the needed entries. I think at one point, I had one init for each kernel version without the dash part. I can't recall how I did that tho. To update grub, I use this command. grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg I actually put it in a file in /root and just run it. I just named it grub-update. That way I don't have to remember the option part. ;-) When it runs, just make sure it sees the kernel and a matching initramfs. It usually lists them in order. I don't update kernels that often. If you do it more often, others will have more automated ways to do things. They may use make install and other things that makes it a lot faster. I do it this way because it is not something I have to do often and I always get a good result. Plus, I keep the ones I know work well. It's been a while but I think Neil may have a more automated process. Heck, if he shares his step by step, I may convert. LOL I don't think I left anything out. :/ Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] systemd-boot on an openrc system
Hello list, I've had no success with that monster grub-2, so I use bootctl from systemd- boot to maintain a boot-time menu of kernels to boot. In recent versions of systemd-boot, when I command 'bootctl update' I get this request: 'Read $KERNEL_INSTALL_LAYOUT from /etc/machine-info. Please move it to the layout= setting of /etc/kernel/install.conf.' My openrc boxes have no such install.conf file. Do I need to create one? -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Separate /usr partition
On Wednesday, 14 September 2022 23:09:59 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:50:45 +0100, Peter Humphrey wrote: > > I'm thinking of separating /usr onto its own partition so that I can > > have it mounted read-only except while updating it. I'd prefer not to > > have to make an init thingy, not having needed one up to now. Besides, > > some machines have things like early-ucode or amd-uc. > > Most of this has already been answered, except for your final point. You > can load more than one initrd at boot, so you can still apply microcode > updates. For example, with systemd-boot > > title Desktop > version 5.15.59-gentoo > linux /vmlinuz-5.15.59-gentoo > options root=LABEL=blah blah > initrd/amd-uc.img > initrd/initramfs-5.15.59-gentoo.img > > I use dracut to create the initrd, which is so straighforward even Dale > can't break it ;-) :) That seems to be the way to go then - even dinosaurs die out in the end. Perhaps Dale will show us the command he referred to. Thank you all for your help. -- Regards, Peter.
