Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo's future directtion ?
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 12:56:36 -0500
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote:
I think the real problem is that there aren't many devs who care about
Java in the first place. That isn't a policy problem - it is a
manpower problem.
+1
In the past two years, I've committed much to the Java categories. That
grows an idea of Java's size, the manpower and what can('t) be done ...
There are BARELY policies, roadblocks or whatsoever in the way; Java is
just a HUGE amount of packages and the manpower they have for it is TINY.
If people want to guarantee a future for Java, it is a matter of
multiple people stepping up to assure it. Because the one frequent
committer and the multiple infrequent committers that are left, might
keep a small part alive of it for as long as they can make it last.
They'll probably continue to support famous apps with Java components;
but to be attractive to much more apps and areas like Java development
in general, they will need much more people to make it alive 'n kicking.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo's future directtion ?
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:20:01 -0500 Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org wrote: What do you do if somebody blocks progress in your overlay structure? You start another one. Sounds like something that can work, survival of the [insert anything]. What do you do if somebody blocks progress in the current Gentoo project structure? You either ask the Council for help, or start another project. Survival of the Council once the amount of projects gets nears infinity. You have just as many options under the status quo, and actually more. Now, what you would get is the ability to have more variety in quality standards, since general QA/etc would not apply. Quantity and Quality rarely go together; consider how we're investing in Quality in a time we might benefit more from Quantity, also vice versa. Well, then by your argument there is nothing wrong, since they're already in the distributed model. There is nothing I can do about people feeling alienated. We can bring attention to the overlays; eg. summarize them on the wiki. If you want to contribute to Gentoo, then do it. If somebody blocks your progress then ask for help. What I can't stand is people moping about their feelings being hurt from umpteen years ago. I can't go back and fix the past. Get over it - contribute or don't. Get born, make mistakes, learn from them, improve the future, die happy. The games team has ZERO power over any dev doing anything to any package in the tree. That was the outcome of the most recent Council decision. We didn't disband the team because we thought that having a team focused on games wasn't a bad idea, but so far nobody else seems all that interested so it seems as likely as not that there won't be a games team in the future. How is that not doing something radical? What more do you want us to do? Preparations for the (un)expected future we're about to experience. It's not about elitist old-timers, it's about a more dynamic model that has low tolerance for * bugs being open since 8+ years, because no one bothers to review/change stuff (check nethack bug) * territorial behaviour * slacking devs slacking so hard, but not stepping down The reason the nethack bug is still open is because nobody cares enough to fix it. ANYBODY can make themselves a maintainer of Nethack right now and fix the bug. The reason that the Nethack bug is still open is because you apparently care enough about it to post about it, but not enough to fix it. I'm not going to fix it, because I don't use Nethack. The issues you bring up were an issue in the past, and nobody really has any tolerance for it these days. You keep bringing up past issues that have been fixed, which really sounds to me like a demonstration that we're running out of real current issues to fix. If there is somebody blocking progress on something, by all means point it out. However, it needs to be a case where somebody is actually trying to do something, not just complaints about all the great stuff that could get done if somebody cared enough to even try. This emphasizes on a bad example from a collection of vague statements; while we ignore that, what does it have to do with the dynamic model? [...] You're basically coming across as being impossible to satisfy, because you bring up vague complaints without anything that anybody can act upon, [...] Content on gentoo-user is more likely to be demand than it is supply.
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo's future directtion ?
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 23:50:48 +0100 hasufell hasuf...@gentoo.org wrote: Again: you are confusing a specific incident with my proposal of a distributed model. I was just bringing it up as an _additional_ argument why I find the distributed approach more interesting... because it makes it easier to regroup and abandon toxic people without having to fight them for years. Nothing of what I say is vague. It is already implemented and I pointed it out. If you refuse to look at it or recognize it, then that's not my fault. Snow is so nice, but I stay home 'cause snow is so cold; not my fault. As an outsider to this new distributed Gentoo discussion happening here; I would be much more interested in a distributed Gentoo if it was fully committed to, rather than seeing you try to convince the inconvincible.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's future directtion ?
On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:29:28 +0100 Andreas K. Huettel dilfri...@gentoo.org wrote: And proposing a Java revolution because the existing team does not immediately jubilate at your extensive reform proposals is also not necessarily the best idea. For those that disagree, start overlay java2015 and prove him wrong. ^_^
Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm
On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:20:26 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: Are you sure that you need gdm at all? Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so, unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work. It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session. So, What can I do aside from restarting gdm after it goes to sleep or whatever its doing after a few minutes? Also, I did try startx and I did get a session and it seems to work, although I have not tested extensively. Sounds like some kind of power management kicking in; usually typing some key and/or mouse helps with that, a step further is to try pressing the power button if it has made it sleep, suspend, ... The screen-saver control of x11-apps/xset might help correct this. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] how to wake up gdm
On Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:36:14 +0300 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: Are you sure that you need gdm at all? Yes, `startx` doesn't work well in GNOME 3 for a lot of people; so, unless one attempts to cover what the login manager sets up, I don't think that a plain call with a plain `exec gnome-session` will work. It for example needs the *-launch things between exec and gnome-session. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with nvidia card -- could it be hardware?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 04:58:24 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I am using the nvidia GeForce GT 430 for years and suddenly within the last few days, if I start gdm, it gives me an error, no screens found and dumpss core and if I let it go it will keep dumping core and filling up my root partition. It works with my frame buffer, but no longer with gdm or even startx. So is this some kind of strange hardware glitch? I did downgrade the nvidia driver, but no joy. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. See https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Backtraces on how to obtain a backtrace from it; this backtrace provides you more information about what went wrong, such that it can be further debugged. It boils down to recompiling the package and its library dependencies with debug flags, after which you can run a new core file through gdb. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: webkit-gtk grumbles
On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:54:12 + (UTC) James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Rich Freeman rich0 at gentoo.org writes: Webkit-gtk definitely has been taking longer to build: Sun Oct 23 16:27:39 2011 net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.4.3-r300 merge time: 12 minutes and 18 seconds. snip Wed May 28 14:07:43 2014 net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.2.6 merge time: 1 hour, 39 minutes and 57 seconds. Rich What syntax did you use to get this information? $ genlop -t net-libs/webkit-gtk curiously, James - With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] problem with nvidia card -- could it be hardware?
On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:11:29 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Well, I did a backtrace with what I had (I always have debug flags on) and it seems that the error no screens found causes an intentional core dump -- it was signal 6. I will check the link and see if I should do anything further. Hmm, that no screens found indicates a problem with the X server I think; can you look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log and/or provide it to us? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Mon, 9 Jun 2014 18:43:04 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: Hello, Rick, thanks for the reply. [... cut all the emerge output, quotes and text in between ...] What the heck is going on, when a package management system can't even make a decision on which version of perl to use, and stick to that decision? And it can only be described as a bug, that the gobbledegook (no parents that aren't satisfied by other packages in this slot) passes for a supposedly informative message. Anyhow, thanks indeed for the help. Maybe, someday in the distant future, I'll succeed in updating my Gentoo system after all. To start with, please avoid using -p (--pretend); sometimes emerge will continue regardless of what is displayed, which can help you forward. Though, that still might imply that you need to resolve that output. A very first thing you'll notice is that the Perl conflict seems to suggest that there is an old Perl version installed and a new Perl version scheduled to be merged. When you do a merge of an individual package, it won't consider the reverse dependencies of Perl and therefore it will result in a conflict instead of upgrading the reverse dependencies of Perl. A solution to this is to upgrade your entire system (@world) such that your entire system is in a consistent and upgraded state; however, this only is a way forward as long as it doesn't bring up a conflict. So ... In order to proceed here, you have to unmerge sys-power/upower (which you've already done) and mask sys-power/upower as well as sys-apps/systemd (yet to do), then an `emerge -auvDNt @world` should help you forward; if not, its output can help you bring it forward. If there is a mention about backtracking, try --backtrack=9001 or so; also, if it still tries to bring in sys-power/upower then you might have an overlay that attempts to do this (sync and/or contact author). As a result of the unmerge and mask, it picks upower-pm-utils for you. Have a great evening! You too. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Sat, 7 Jun 2014 11:32:00 +0300 Gevisz gev...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 14:38:34 +0300 Samuli Suominen ssuomi...@gentoo.org wrote: On 03/06/14 14:30, J. Roeleveld wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. -- Joost First of all, you should check your tone and secondly, you are clearly not understanding the situation as you are oversimplifying a complex situation. For example, Xfce works on non-systemd systems with any of these UPower versions, so forcing upower-pm-utils with USE=-systemd would simply be bogus. It is simply not true. I use xfce and still I could not update my world just because some systemd-dependent guys think that they can force everybody else to use it. Please try to understand the situation before blaming any parties; systemd-dependent guys haven't even been involved in all of this, so, I'm not sure how you can perceive this as a matter of force by them. It is a logical consequence of pm-utils' end-of-development life cycle. If you are looking for a system that decides everything for you, and doesn't give you options what to install, you are propably better off using some binary distribution with smaller set of possibilities. I look for the system that can clearly update itself, not trying to sell me something that I do not need after I have clearly decided for the default package before. The system is selling you a choice; pick one or the other, it's not a merge systemd but rather a block systemd against the other choice. The system cannot merge something until you make that choice; if you are looking for a distribution that can update itself, Gentoo might not be the right distribution for you as it is all about providing choice. Compare this to other distributions which make the choices for you; interesting to note, a lot of those distributions picked systemd, instead of it being forced Gentoo actually blocks it for you to choose. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:15:22 -0400 Dutch Ingraham s...@gmx.us wrote: Thanks everybody for your help. I've made the further suggested changes, but I remain with the three hard blocks. Can you provide the emerge output of the following command? emerge --tree --unordered-diplay -uDNv @world This makes it more clear what pulls in systemd. Once you know that, you can mask the chain and use an alternative; other than that, MATE is in the Portage tree and therefore you can remove the MATE overlay to avoid running into unnecessary blockers. This happening has nothing to do with Gentoo or systemd; around four years ago the development of pm-utils stopped, which causes UPower to nowadays take a decision. This results in the following scenarios: 1. If you need pm-utils, you either need to switch to the upower-pm-utils fork or to systemd; 2. If you don't need pm-utils, you either need to a) upgrade to upower-0.99 once reverse dependencies support it and it is stabilized (this has no dependency on systemd); b) switch to upower-pm-utils despite not needing pm-utils; c) switch to systemd. Gentoo reflects that decision as magic can't happen from one day to the other; while trying to keep a fork upower-pm-utils alive as long as it can be kept working given the manpower, kernel API and so on... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 00:27:28 +0100 Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:15:22 -0400, Dutch Ingraham wrote: I suppose its now time for an uninstall. Kind of disappointing; we are told Gentoo is about choices, and in fact that's true. I made the choice to use a pure openRC system. The last 7 hours of free time, though, was spent trying, and ultimately failing, to correct a problem not chosen, not wanted, and not invited. ...and not of Gentoo's doing. You are trying to blame Gentoo for a problem arising from an overlay. A more productive use of your time would be to inform the overlay's maintainers about your problem and request a fix, which may well be a simple ebuild tweak. It has been fixed two days ago; so, Ingraham needs to sync the overlay: https://github.com/Sabayon/mate-overlay/commit/0e4acf73e81083d87d43e2a0b0be2b959f1e6a78 A news item was put out that it was being migrated to the Portage tree: https://github.com/Sabayon/mate-overlay/blob/master/metadata/news/2014-02-21-portage-import/2014-02-21-portage-import.en.txt And they are now planning to retire the overlay to make people switch: https://github.com/Sabayon/mate-overlay/issues/76 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
; ... Now, to me it will by default be a possibility; because for it to be a factual true to me, I need to be given the reference I've requested. In *your* opinion. I have heard some surprising folks say things in private that they would never choose to state publicly. And that covers a lot of people in over 53 years of programming. I could've heard the opposite; who of us both will people believe? I *do* no misunderstand this at all. You attribute to folks (myself included) motivations or misunderstandings that you simply do not have the information or knowledge to know for certain. Consider that similar attributions are seen from you. If someone sees something as a problems that you don't agree is a problem it may just be that your experience or expertise is different. There is a large amount of ego preservation and self-promotion involved in these arguments, and many don't have enough insight to recognize that humor and social skill are necessary to succeed. Boring jokes and social interruptions stall[1] instead of succeed. It merely claims to be a meritocracy. But like several other *political* models, it boils down to an oligarchy, where those who obtain power by whatever means, whether consciously or unconsciously, do what they must to preserve it. And the early days of Usenet was deliberately modeled in a pseudo-democratic manner. An opinion poll was set up in order to gain some idea about the potential and perceived use for a topic area. If one wanted a topic group established on a widespread basis one needed a fair bit of social skill and perception in order to do so. Nothing holds you from starting a poll on a poll site and do that today; you'll however note that such poll, either now or back in the days, doesn't force people to do things. Power's will goes hand in hand with people's will. Those who has the gold makes the rules? In Belgium we say Klant is koning, which translates to The customer is the king; you might have a lot of money, that doesn't mean you can set up whichever rule you want and expect that behavior to be blindly followed. No, customers will just move on to the next company; regardless of the gold a company has. The same goes with people in politics, you might have all the gold to advertise yourself; but that doesn't mean you get a majority of votes and a political reformation in your favor. So if you want to change the rules, start writing some code. Been there. Done That. Have the T-shirt. BUT, for *some* reason, I still care. No, really; if you want to form rules, write some code and get the people you want to change the rules for to be interested in your work. Footnotes [1] Those who are politically active constantly deal with the more politically naive who complain there isn't really any difference between group_a or group_b - they all suck. This can be compared to a technologically naive person saying major software projects can be thrown together by a bunch of programmers just sitting around together at a coffee shop over the weekend. (Don't laugh -- a US Supreme Court Justice said almost exactly that within the past two weeks.) [1] It really does. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Systemd upower
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 06:23:38 +0100
Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote:
Are you saying that as things stand it is a matter of time before a
gentoo user will have to switch from openrc to systemd, if they
want/need to continue using sleep and hibernate?
For them to have support for sleep and hibernate, someone needs to
develop / maintain it in order to adapt to kernel API changes; as long
as the only one doing this is systemd, you'll work towards only it
being supported there in the future.
In other words, if people want to see this be continued in other places
than systemd; they need to either be verbal enough to convince someone
to do the work, or do the work involved themselves.
There are easily at least 100 users interested in further support.
So, if some developers and/or users can find the time, will and
interest to do so the cost to implement it; it will certainly be worth
to do for the benefit of making a ton of users happy in the future.
TL;DR: A simple equation: If someone stops development upstream,
someone else needs to start developing to keep that work{,ing}.
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 08:11:31 -0400 Dutch Ingraham s...@gmx.us wrote: [nomerge ] mate-base/mate-1.6.0::mate-overlay You are still using the MATE overlay, which wasn't synced up with the latest changes; make layman sync, but if you want to be really sure just remove the overlay from layman and use MATE from the Portage tree. [ebuild N#] mate-base/mate-session-manager-1.6.1-r1::mate-overlay [ebuild N ] sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3 Don't mask MATE, it causes more blockers; mate-base/mate requires it. As you can see above, your old checkout of the MATE overlay pulls in sys-power/upower; the MATE in the portage tree doesn't do this as it allows upower-pm-utils to satisfy this, I think this has also been fixed up in the MATE overlay recently which a sync could solve. [blocks B ] sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration (sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) [blocks B ] sys-apps/systemd (sys-apps/systemd is blocking sys-fs/udev-212-r1) [blocks B ] sys-fs/udev (sys-fs/udev is blocking sys-apps/gentoo-systemd-integration-4, sys-apps/systemd-212-r5) Fixing what was said above, for MATE (maybe XFCE too), will fix it ... (sys-apps/systemd-212-r5::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =sys-apps/systemd-200 required by (sys-power/upower-0.9.23-r3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) ... as well as this; this last thing points out that something is still pulling in upower, that's due to the old MATE overlay checkout. The MATE overlay plans to retire itself in less than a week from now. https://github.com/Sabayon/mate-overlay/issues/76 If you need help with switching to MATE in the Portage tree, feel free to let me know; this migration is supposed to go very fluent, so, removing the overlay from layman should work out well. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:15:11 +0200 Dutch Ingraham s...@gmx.us wrote: If you could point me to the proper command set to make the switch, I'd appreciate it. Remove the overlay (`layman -d mate`) and then do a world upgrade. It is as simple as that, as it'll upgrade all those packages to the versions that are in the Portage tree; if not, please let me know. Good luck and thank you in advance. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 22:17:21 -0400 Dutch Ingraham s...@gmx.us wrote: That's a good catch, the MATE stuff is from the overlay. MATE 1.6 is stable in the Portage tree, MATE 1.8 is testing in the Portage tree; both had their upower dependencies fixed up days ago. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] re: sys-power/upower-pm-utils
On Tue, 03 Jun 2014 11:30:11 + J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Sounds like Samuli is being a pr*ck by forcing systemd on everyone now. Which is a lot better than to have it break by the lack thereof. A proper solution would have been to have the upower ebuild select systemd as a dependency ONLY when the systemd useflag is set. And who is going to maintain all that. And depend on upower-pm-utils when it is not set. The usage of a USE flag should not control runtime dependencies when the package does not link to it. Doing so will create extra configuration for the package and re-compilation for no underlying file change on disk. This should be avoided and instead can be conveyed to the user via post install messages if needed. http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd upower
On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:06:52 +0300 Alon Bar-Lev alo...@gentoo.org wrote: Once again, you do not understand the claim. If a user of Gentoo chooses to use non systemd profile, it means that we need to make sure systemd will not be a valid option, ever. There is no such thing as a non systemd profile on Gentoo at the moment; you have .../systemd profiles, which are specializations of the more generic case ... which you can fill in with gnome or kde. So, I'm here running this agnostic MATE with a make.profile symlink that doesn't point to a .../systemd profile; what is remarkable, is that systemd is a valid option in this case. Similarly, if I pick a .../systemd profile; what is remarkable, is that OpenRC is also a valid option in that case. For there to be a make sure systemd will not be a valid option, ever there would have to be a .../no-systemd profile or something like that; in such profile, one could then mask anything that tries to pull in systemd and not have to deal with further transitions later on. Splitting up profiles this way becomes a pain to maintain; other than that, it is also a controversial way to go about it given that a no-... type of profile hasn't been commonly used before yet. In this train of thoughts Funtoo mix-ins could help to do it more clean. http://www.funtoo.org/Flavors_and_Mix-ins But until we've got something, we've got to accept that other options remain valid choices; profiles are just there, well, to ensure a particular choice is properly supported without further implications. In this case, if it is to disable the upower USE flag, or to provide alternative, block newer version, whatever make it possible to have a system working without systemd. systemd should not be visible at any time, nor its implications. Alon It is easy to make such a statement, but it is hard to make it happen; upstreams change over time, which makes such implications happen sooner or later in one place or the other. Which becomes visible over time... The manpower that we have to keep implications away are limited; to make a change to those implications, one could write code as suggested. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Did Gnome 3.12 Just Drop?
On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 05:48:56 -0400 Hunter Jozwiak hunter.t@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I had installed Gnome 3.10 a few days ago, and now things have been migrating towards 3.12 Has Gnome 3.12 just launched for the x86 platforms, or is there something amiss with Portage that I should check? I get this weird update process: it gives me a version, such as 4.0, but the next day bumps me up to 4.1, which is weird, since logic would say that 4.1 is the newest, you'd want it over 4.0. Or is it the SLOTS technology? I've not quite gotten that concept yet. /usr/portage/profiles/ChangeLog: 01 Jun 2014; Pacho Ramos pa...@gentoo.org package.mask: Unmask Gnome 3.12 Yes, it did; now available in testing arches (eg. ~x86), given it has just been added it'll take a while before this is stable (eg. x86). -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:26:26 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: But c because I am not very familiar with gdm, can you give me a key sequence after gdm is launched to emter my user id and password? Key sequence: [SHIFT+TAB][ENTER]username[ENTER]password[ENTER] The first part selects Not listed here?; then it'll prompt for username, after which it'll prompt for password. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sat, 24 May 2014 15:29:34 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: OK, here is what is happening -- if I do a startx in any console where I am logged in, I get a gnome session on that tty (wish it was on the unused one), and I seem to be good to go. However when I try to use gdm, I no longer get the oh no stuff, but it seems I get a list of some of my userids, but I can't do anything, I can up arrow to one of them, but hitting enter does nothing. Also, tab does nothing, nor do left/right arrow keys and strangely enough, my name is not among the listed ids. Here is a log segment from start to stop of gdm. https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=filest=3bae607fe4d5043b325b6339e3672c84 I hope someone can make sense of this because after this happened my regular ttys won't scroll once they get to the last line and the only way to solve this problem is to reboot the system. This might be PAM related: gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: initializing PAM; service=gdm-password username=krnotley seat=seat0 gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: Set PAM environment variable: 'XDG_SEAT=seat0' gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: 1 new messages received from PAM gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: received pam message of type 1 with payload 'Password: ' gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): conversation failed gdm-password][4972]: pam_unix(gdm-password:auth): auth could not identify password for [krnotley] gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user gdm-password][4972]: gkr-pam: no password is available for user gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: PAM conversation returning 19: Conversation error gdm-session-worker[4972]: 7GdmSessionWorker: uninitializing PAM A failing conversation here looks odd to me; so, maybe this krontley user is bugged (preventing others from being listed?) or PAM itself isn't working properly at all? Check the following link which can be a possible solution to this: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd#systemd-logind_.26_pam_systemd Other than that I see gnome-settings-daemon failing as it exits with code 1, but with no clear warning or error; from experience with that, that could be a reason to display or usage problems. A way to debug this could be to restart it in the shell to catch more output, if any; but I'm more suspicious about PAM so try to get PAM fixed first. It could just as well be failing because you shutdown GDM; it might be more clear if you capture a log where you don't shutdown GDM, as then the last messages would be much more related to the problem at hand. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sun, 25 May 2014 05:38:08 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: OK, here is a link to the messages without me doing anything in gdm at all, just starting it. https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=filest=85cffe78261eacc915379ff5d5449d18 There are some warnings and errors in this one, but I'm not quite sure which one could be the problem; you can get them with a grep: grep -i '\(warning\|error\)' gnome-3.12.1-error2.txt | grep -v Xorg 1. The GetAll() and ServiceUnknown erros are often not problematic. 2. Unable to register client with session manager I get too; so, not a problem. 3. There is Gvc-WARNING **: Failed to connect context: OK but that is GNOME volume control if I understood correctly; so, also not a problem. 4. The Polkit Error No permission to trigger offline updates might be more concerning; though, it should just affect the update part. 5. JS ERROR: could not get remote objects for service org.gnome.SettingsDaemon.Smartcard I think is due to a missing USE flag option for the gnome-settings-daemon package; I think that's supposed to work, so, I also don't see this as a problem. 6. Unit dbus-org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service failed to load is also something non-fatal; so, also not a problem. TL;DR: One of these could be it, or not at all; I think the problem you're having right now doesn't manifest itself as a warning or error, but instead as an input / graphical problem. Can you try a different version of GNOME? A newer might have fixed it. If you need instructions on how to switch between specific version, feel free to let me know. I'll try to figure out the sequence to switch between users later today, when I can reboot my system. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sun, 25 May 2014 08:02:49 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: More information, I am not sure if the autostart stuff works at all for orca, but definitely if I hit super-alt-s it does start, but speech is not there, but I can see the process, but I will play some more. Not sure if it needs it; but you might need app-accessibility/festival for this to work, as well as set up the daemon (systemctl start/enable). IIRC there are segfaults about that in your log; they are there by default, since festival is an optional run-time dependency, but GNOME tries to initialize it regardless of whether you have it or not. (Festival is a Text to Speech engine) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sat, 24 May 2014 02:19:19 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Sorry, that one was wrong as well, here is the correct one which I have tested myself! https://covici.com/owncloud/public.php?service=filest=7aa380dc7ff13da479331a425ce8a665 (TL;DR: Enable the COMPOSITE extension in your Xorg configuration.) Which version of GNOME is this? I run GNOME 3.12; if you still run a much older version of GNOME, you might want to consider an upgrade. Did a diff against mine. First bit where it goes wrong: gdm-session-worker[14085]: 7AccountsService: Error calling GetAll() when retrieving properties for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled gdm-session-worker[14085]: 7AccountsService: Error calling GetAll() when retrieving properties for /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User105: Operation was cancelled Second bit where it goes wrong: /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No composite extension. /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated: Helper exited with code 256 /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No composite extension. /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: gnome-session-check-accelerated: Helper exited with code 256 /usr/bin/dbus-launch[14093]: ** (process:14093): WARNING **: software acceleration check failed: Child process exited with code 1 The first one is accountsservice; here you can check if you have the last version (or try a different version), as well as see if the systemd USE flag on it is set. Though, don't worry too much; given that it goes further past this point, this might be a false positive. But it might be relevant might you experience another problem later on... The second one is way more interesting, it is a process that exits with code 1 and definitely is a failure; the lack of presence of a composite extension means that there is something wrong with your Xorg configuration or detection, maybe you have explicitly disabling it or have set it up in a way that it breaks. Alternatively consider to remove the existing Xorg configuration files, try again; if it still breaks, you can generate one with nvidia-xconfig. In my case I get ... gdm-Xorg-:0[2680]: Initializing built-in extension COMPOSITE ... which doesn't appear in your log. A similar forum topic seems to suggest it happens in such case: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977526-start-0.html Thus can you try enabling that extension? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Sat, 24 May 2014 05:40:37 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: OK, how do I enable that extension? Change it from false to true; alternatively, just remove the line and/or the surrounding section. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] about to give up on systemd and gnome
On Fri, 23 May 2014 15:50:04 -0400 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Any suggestions appreciated. Can you provide the log segment from `journalctl -rb`? (-r puts it in reverse, -b restricts it to the current boot) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] May GMN Tips and Tricks
On Wed, 21 May 2014 18:41:28 -0400
David Abbott dabb...@gentoo.org wrote:
Hi Everyone,
We are putting together this months GMN [1] Looking for some content
to add to the Tip of the month section.
Regards
David
[1] http://blogs.gentoo.org/news
You can create a simple shell function like this:
whymask() {
find /usr/portage/profiles/ -name '*.mask' -exec \
awk -vRS= /${*/\//.}/ {
print \ \ FILENAME \:\, \\n\ \\n\ \$0 \\n\
} {} + | less
}
You can do `whymask sys-kernel/gentoo-sources` to get reasons as to why
a particular package is masked; very handy to quickly check something
up, especially for USE flag masks which Portage doesn't explain.
You can do `whymask Gnome 3.12` to get the entire GNOME 3.12 mask,
piping it to `grep -v mask: /etc/portage/package.unmask/gnome3` then
allows you to quickly update your GNOME 3.12 unmask; if you want this to
happen on sync, you can put this line in /etc/portage/postsync.d/gnome3
and make it executable such that it'll be ran after every sync.
The magic trick here is that awk -vRS= /.../ matches paragraphs; as
the record separator is empty, it takes the blank lines.
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Confusing Portage Outcomes
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:02:46 -0400 Hunter Jozwiak hunter.t@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I made the following in /etc/portage/make.conf #ACCEPT_LICENS=* ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~x86 Save and exit. To double check, I ran: #emerge --info | grep -i accept ACCEPT_LICENSES=* -@EULA ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=x86 ~x86 The way it looks, the file just appended what I want to the Portage default. As far as the keywords variable is concerned, that will cause issues. Do I need to negate the defaults with the -? ACCEPT_LICENSES is commented out; so, yes, it'll use the default. ACCEPT_KEYWORDS I think that ~x86 includes, similar to how maintainers specify KEYWORDS=x86 and not KEYWORDS=x86 ~x86 in their ebuilds; I'm not entirely sure, but I think that would be the case. You can check with something like ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~amd64 ~ppc ~x86 which might result in something that lists all the stable ones as well. Negating x86 with - could be a possible solution; however, I wonder if that's what you want as some packages have only stable versions. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Confusing Portage Outcomes
On Wed, 21 May 2014 14:33:30 -0400 Hunter Jozwiak hunter.t@gmail.com wrote: I commented that out for the purposes of having it in the email as a sort of example. It isn't actually commented I was in the file. So having the x86 and the ~x86 in the same variable would make a safe portage solution? Yes; it allows ~x86 versions, while not disallowing x86 versions. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting in to the Funtoo Tree
On Sun, 11 May 2014 10:40:35 -0400 Hunter Jozwiak hunter.t@gmail.com wrote: Hi abl. I want to get the Debian-Sources kernel, as provided by the Funtoo tree. How do I add this tree to my Portage? They don't advise using the Overlay, and Google searching how to add trees just pulls up how to add overlays. Perhaps there's a section of the handbook I am reading past that will provide the answer? Hmm, a tree is on its own an overlay; if Funtoo doesn't want you to use it as an overlay, consider to contact them to ask how they expect you to use it. They perhaps have a good reason as to why not; but given it's just a package, you should be able to pull it from that overlay. Maybe they mean the general advice to watch out that if you do add the overlay, that you only use that package from it and not all; you might want to mask the rest using /etc/portage/package.mask (something like */*::funtoo) and then unmask that kernel in /etc/portage/package.unmask Merging more than what you need from overlays is a recipe for disaster. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Intel(R) WiFi Link 5100 AGN - random de-authentication
On Wed, 7 May 2014 16:58:05 +0100 Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: I have compiled on a 3.12.13-gentoo kernel: Try the latest release candidate kernel (3.15-rc4) to make sure you have most of the the latest iwlwifi changes by upstream; if you want them all, and are not afraid of working with git, you can try to obtain even later changes from here: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/iwlwifi/iwlwifi-next.git CONFIG_IWLWIFI=m CONFIG_IWLDVM=m CONFIG_IWLWIFI_OPMODE_MODULAR=y Set CONFIG_IWLWIFI_DEBUG=y to see if debug information tells more. An option to try out too is CONFIG_IWLWIFI_DEBUG_EXPERIMENTAL_UCODE=y. My /etc/conf.d/net section says: [...] wpa_supplicant_wlp4s0=-Dwext [...] Use nl80211 instead, you'll want to enable this in your kernel as well. http://wireless.kernel.org/en/developers/Documentation/nl80211 http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/iw proto=RSN key_mgmt=WPA-PSK pairwise=CCMP group=CCMP Try WPA2 AES if you can configure that and the rest of devices connecting to the router support that, anything else can have a negative effect on obtaining the higher N speeds; talking about router, which kind of router is this and which firmware (eg. DD-WRT, ...) does it run? [ 514.377859] iwlwifi :04:00.0 wlp4s0: disabling HT as WMM/QoS is not supported by the AP [ 514.377869] iwlwifi :04:00.0 wlp4s0: disabling VHT as WMM/QoS is not supported by the AP Look if your AP allows you enable WMM, to gain more throughput. ioctl[...]: Invalid argument As suggested above; use nl80211 instead of wext, make sure it is enabled and thus supported in the kernel. # modprobe -v iwlwifi power_save=0 power_level=3 11n_disable=1 insmod /lib/modules/3.12.13-gentoo/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/iwlwifi/iwlwifi.ko power_save=0 power_level=3 11n_disable=1 You shouldn't need all that, please try back with a plain modprobe. On a side note, I'm an owner of the same wireless card; currently I am experiencing the following bug, which has to do with iwlwifi being stuck in higher rates for one or another reason. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56581 Looking at the most recent commits, there might be a solution to that; so, I'll try to pull that later to see if it fixes my issue with it. http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/iwlwifi/iwlwifi-next.git/commit/?id=80763515c371202916ecdb4118dbed51f801aeb5 I experience disconnects when my connection is too idle; this is because at that moment the router goes to a lower rate, but the card stays in a higher rate and that mismatch is enough for a timeout that results in a disconnect. Similarly, in the opposite direction when the router's rate is too high (due to LAN traffic); I sometimes experience high response times and slowness, as well as the error from that bug. There's something going on with the rate control algorithm these days... As for your disconnects, I think they are due to nl80211 and/or your network and/or router configuration; but it might very well be due to that same bug above, in which case I guess you'll have to wait a bit to see whether the debugging and resolution to it help you. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Heartbleed - using openssl-0.9.8y and affected
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:02:52 -0600 Joseph syscon...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/28/14 09:17, Joseph wrote: Which program do I upgrade to fix Heartbleed bug? http://safeweb.norton.com/heartbleed/ is showing me my server is vulnerable. I'm using dev-libs/openssl-0.9.8y Why safeweb.norton is triggering my server vulnerable? I'm using apache-2.2.25 Which file contain setting for: SSLCompression I'm trying to turn it off. Unaffected according to: http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-201404-07.xml Perhaps all you need to do is restart the Apache service? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] using eclipse with java
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:08:18 -0400
gottl...@nyu.edu wrote:
I get almost immediate segfaults.
I type
eclipse-bin-7.2
It is basically empty (no projects).
I start a new project called crash
I then expand the project, select src, right click and say new
class I call the class Crash and it give a correct skeleton
I go to the blank line above public class Crash { and start to type
import java.util.scanner
I get as far as import java. then it pops up a window with
completions and segfaults. It is quite repeatable. This happens on
a fresh install of eclipse-bin.
Eclipse SDK 4.2 works here; strange that it doesn't for you, it might
be some incompatibility perhaps with one or another library.
Given that it is binary I'm unsure if this can be debugged...
Any advice? Should I look for a binary on the eclipse site?
Yes, try one from the Eclipse site and put it in /opt/ (create symlinks
in /usr/local/bin/); there is 4.3 there, I think we need to bump to
that in the Java overlay at some point as 4.2 is getting somewhat old.
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] app-admin/mcelog daily cronjob?
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:11:38 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 5:41 pm, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: ... I guess I'll just file a vapid-one bug that my Gentoo system is generating these cron messages, rather than first trying to come to a understanding of the cause. Would that make the developers' lives easier? If it is a bug to you, up to you to decide, then feel free to file it. Do you seriously consider it up for debate whether or not it's a bug, when daily error messages are produced and emailed to the system admin? That depends on whether you consider that to be the expected behavior for the way it has been set up; the cause is already known, wrong perms. Would filing a bug make your life easier? Do you want me to file a bug? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] app-admin/mcelog daily cronjob?
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:13:57 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 17 April 2014, at 2:32 pm, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: ... Do you seriously consider it up for debate whether or not it's a bug, when daily error messages are produced and emailed to the system admin? That depends on whether you consider that to be the expected behavior for the way it has been set up; the cause is already known, wrong perms. Well, it seems to be the Gentoo devs that set it up this way. You're the expert - you tell me why this is happening. Your found information and the post installation messages tell this: Traditionally mcelog was run as a cronjob, but this usage is deprecated now. The modern way to run it is to start it at boot up time and run it always as a daemon. A sample cronjob is installed into /etc/cron.daily without executable bit (system service is the preferred method now) There is nothing extra for a non-maintainer to add to this. You haven't given me any explanation why this package is on a freshly-installed Gentoo system, you haven't told me in the Gentoo install docs that I need to configure this package, have you? That is because you have installed it; and if you did install it, then the useful post installation messages tell you this information. To demonstrate that this is the case, app-admin/mcelog is ... ... not part of the current stage3 as revealed by its contents list; $ grep app-admin/mcelog stage3-amd64-20140410.tar.bz2.CONTENTS $ ... not pulled in by another dependency as recorded in the database; $ grep --include='*DEPEND' -rl app-admin/mcelog /var/db/pkg/ $ ... not pulled in through profiles and therefore not by the @system set $ grep -r app-admin/mcelog /usr/portage/profiles/ $ ... and not listed as the dependency of any package in the Portage tree. $ grep --include='*.ebuild' --exclude='mcelog-*' -r app-admin/mcelog /usr/portage/ $ -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] using eclipse with java
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:11:05 -0400 gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: I have not yet merged eclipse-sdk. Must I merge this? The only version in the main tree is masked and it brings in 83! packages. One Does Not Simply Compile Eclipse[1]. There is dev-util/eclipse-sdk-bin in several overlays[2][3], which provide a pre-compiled version of that what you are exactly looking for; but if you want to build eclipse-sdk from source, you're on your own[4]. Unless you get a team together; ping me, then I'll share a WIP version. [1] http://thume.ca/2013/03/29/contributing-to-eclipse/ [2] http://gpo.zugaina.org/dev-util/eclipse-sdk-bin [3] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Layman [4] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=325271#c159 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] using eclipse with java
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:20:12 -0400 gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: When I did an emerge --pretend eclipse-sdk I received a note that a recent binary is in the java-overlay. Is that what you would recommend? I have used layman in the past for gnome. Yes, the binary one in the java overlay works here; I recommend that. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] app-admin/mcelog daily cronjob?
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:39:16 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: What is mcelog, and why do I need it, please? Machine check exception logger; iotw, it logs hardware errors. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] app-admin/mcelog daily cronjob?
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:39:22 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 3:44 pm, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:39:16 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: What is mcelog, and why do I need it, please? Machine check exception logger; iotw, it logs hardware errors. Ok, ignoring everything else that I wrote in my previous message, that this package appears to be generating daily errors… your contention is that I don't need it, because my other machine is running fine without it? There is no such indication in that reply. That is up to you to decide. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Raspberry Pi Gentoo?
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 17:34:54 +0200 Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gentoo-users, I have read all articles about Raspberry Pi on Gentoo-wiki, but want to ask: Is anybody here really using Gentoo on RPi? Yes. Is it usable? Depends on your goal. I have a chance of free housing for my RPi so I thought I give it a try, using RPi as backup-DNS/MX (and watchdog) for my primary server. Should work. Right now I'm facing two questions: 1. What is better to use as OS-storage: USB-stick or SD-card? I have read horror stories about SD-cards being fried/bricked quite frequently so I'm a little scared. But I never found single post about problems with USB-stick... As suggested in the other reply; both if you can, SD otherwise. As it is faster than USB as USB is sharing the same interface as Ethernet. Just make sure you get something serious from a good brand. 2. What distro? Right now I'm using Gentoo on all my servers but I'm not sure it is the best option for this puppy (Gentoo puts quite high demands on filesystem). If I redirect all the compilation work to other mature server (distcc/crossdev), can I use even Gentoo? Or is Raspbian still the better choice? The nice thing about Gentoo is that you can make things minimal, the worst thing about Gentoo is that it takes a ton of compile time; so, it somewhat depends on your goal. Try different and see what you like. When you plan to do Gentoo, spend some time on avoiding much writes to the SD card if possible; put /var/tmp/portage on external drive, etc... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] app-admin/mcelog daily cronjob?
On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 17:14:27 +0100 Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On Wed, 16 April 2014, at 4:52 pm, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: There is no such indication in that reply. That is up to you to decide. Well, I posted here looking for useful answers You need it when you need it; iotw, what keeps you from your decision? (http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/11/qa-is-hard-lets-go-shopping/) and perhaps a full explanation (like, of how this is needed beyond the system logger), not vapid one-liners. For a system to log a source it needs a logger that logs that source. I guess I'll just file a vapid-one bug that my Gentoo system is generating these cron messages, rather than first trying to come to a understanding of the cause. Would that make the developers' lives easier? If it is a bug to you, up to you to decide, then feel free to file it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird Screen-Overlay problems after update
On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:39:09 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org [14-04-15 19:36]: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:59:19 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com [14-04-15 17:33]: To exegrate the whole discussion: Help! I have a problem with Linux! ...I have some heard of Linux...bad things...use windows instead! So: Due to the already mentioned reasons I cannot use other hardware/ other software. I need to get THIS running. Next question: How can I downgrade to the previous version of nvidia-drivers/nvidia-settings/nvidia-cude-toolkit, which works nice for me? Put the version you don't want in /etc/portage/package.mask; see `man portage` for details, but for example if you don't want 337.12 or newer, you would do something like this: /etc/portage/package.mask: =x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers-337.12 Then doing `emerge -u x11-drivers/nvidia-drivers` will downgrade it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D ...problem here is, that the emerge process already killed all ebuilds except the newest one of nvidie-cuda-toolkit and nvidia-settings... There is a nvidia-settings in nvidia-drivers already; as for nvidia-cuda-toolkit, there are two versions available: $ cd /usr/portage/dev-util/nvidia-cuda-toolkit/; ls *.ebuild nvidia-cuda-toolkit-4.2.9-r2.ebuild nvidia-cuda-toolkit-5.5.22.ebuild They are both stable. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird portage behaviour
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:43:33 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: Many thanks for that little bit of magic. I've incorporated it into a simple script to find all the missed packages and list their atoms in a form suitable for piping into emerge. You might not want to do that; those are _build_ dependencies, not _runtime_ dependencies. You don't need them for the package to run. I still think this is bad behaviour by portage. If portage's environment is identical in the two cases and I tell it to emerge -ek, the results should be identical to those if I tell it to emerge -e. I know that -e means empty- tree but that sounds to me exactly like everything, so that's what I expect to get. It is correct behaviour; `emerge -ek` is similar to `emerge -e ; emerge -c --with-bdeps=n`, where the `emerge -c --with-bdeps=n` unmerges the build dependencies after the packages were build. As they are no longer needed after that part; that is, if you don't intend to rebuild them. Thanks again to both of you - at least I can now be sure that I've rebuilt everything when I think I have. I hate to think how many things I've missed in the past. No problem; be happy to now know you don't need that what misses. :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I being blocked from posting?
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:00:43 -0400 Chris Walters cjw20...@comcast.net wrote: On 4/14/2014 11:58 AM, Chris Walters wrote: I tried to post a message on that certain bug to this list yesterday, and it has never shown up. I had two sources that suggested that said bug is far more severe than most people think. So this message is a test. So, is there a keyword block on the name of that bug? This message posted, but the other one (I tried posting it twice - once yesterday, and once today), never showed up. Is it this message? http://gentoo.2317880.n4.nabble.com/Heartbleed-bug-td278708.html#a278743 Or is it another one? http://search.gmane.org/?query=author=Chris+Waltersgroup=gmane.linux.gentoo.usersort=date (The GMANE links are currently broken in the search, try again later) Feel free to put the entire mail including headers on a pastebin / gist. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Am I being blocked from posting?
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:58:05 -0400 Chris Walters cjw20...@comcast.net wrote: On 4/14/2014 12:17 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:00:43 -0400 Chris Walters cjw20...@comcast.net wrote: On 4/14/2014 11:58 AM, Chris Walters wrote: I tried to post a message on that certain bug to this list .snip. Is it this message? http://gentoo.2317880.n4.nabble.com/Heartbleed-bug-td278708.html#a278743 Or is it another one? http://search.gmane.org/?query=author=Chris+Waltersgroup=gmane.linux.gentoo.usersort=date (The GMANE links are currently broken in the search, try again later) Feel free to put the entire mail including headers on a pastebin / gist. It is another one. It has links to two articles. One states that sources close to the NSA state that the NSA has been exploiting this bug for at least two years, and may have blocked it from coming to light sooner than it did. The other link basically describes the bug as catastrophic. They both included two links (both the full links and shortened versions). They would have been posted 4.13.2014 and 4.14.2014. They never showed up, on this list AND on the GnuPG mailing list. The message immediately showed up on the TOR list. Definitely sounds like there would be some problem somewhere. Can you please file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org in the Mailing Lists component of the Gentoo Infrastructure product? Provide as much details as possible; eg, extract the mail from your Sent folder. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Compiling errors while updateing
On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 08:18:06 +0200 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On 13 April 2014 05:42:46 CEST, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Anything I can do to get the stuff compile again? Build logs? Yes. Can you attach the build.log? Such that we can see whether it can be resolved or whether a bug at the Bugzilla needs to be filed. To spare extra mail, also attach `emerge --info` output and other logs the end of the build.log might mention; for example, config.log. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Compiling errors while updateing
On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 14:47:05 +0200 meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: So...is there a recent workaround for this problem? Which problem is this? Can you link us to the specific bug? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Weird portage behaviour
0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Command-1.170.0-r3 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Install-1.540.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-MakeMaker-6.640.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-Manifest-1.610.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-ExtUtils-ParseXS-3.180.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-File-Temp-0.220.0-r2 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-IO-Zlib-1.100.0-r2 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-IPC-Cmd-0.780.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-JSON-PP-2.272.0-r1 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Locale-Maketext-Simple-0.210.0-r2 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Module-Build-0.400.300 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Module-CoreList-2.840.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Module-Load-0.240.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Module-Load-Conditional-0.540.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Module-Metadata-1.0.11 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Package-Constants-0.20.0-r2 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Params-Check-0.360.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Parse-CPAN-Meta-1.440.400 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Perl-OSType-1.2.0-r1 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Test-Harness-3.260.0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-Test-Simple-0.980.0-r2 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/perl-version-0.990.100 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/pkgconfig-0 0 kB -[ebuild R] virtual/yacc-0 0 kB -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Point
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 15:07:57 +0200 DocRog rc...@club-internet.fr wrote: Hi, gentoo-3.12.13 amd64 Logitech keyboard S510 cordless Since an update (which one ???) on my numpad the . becomes a , and this in all softwares: writer in LO, terminal, thunderbird, etc. How could i do to have again a . in the numpad ? Your keymap might have changed. You can set it back correctly using the following HOWTO: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Localization/HOWTO#Keyboard_layout_for_the_console -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Realtek R8168
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 16:53:37 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: Has anyone got =net-misc/r8168-8.028.00::gentoo to compile? I get a fatal error: In function ‘rtl8168_rx_vlan_skb’: error: too few arguments to function ‘__vlan_hwaccel_put_tag’ The ChangeLog seems to indicate that versions before 8.035 don't support Linux 3.8 or later; so, you'll want to add net-misc/r8168 to /etc/portage/package.accept_keywords to emerge a later version. As Linux 3.8 is becoming older with time, I filed a stabilization bug: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507518 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Show ebuild date/time in emerge --pretend output
On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 13:44:30 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Last - I merely asked if this was *feasible*. It was unclear to me whether this is in the context of it being feasible for (other) users, or whether this is in the context of making it work in Portage; I've not replied earlier because I thought it was in the first context, but I can shed some details on implementation. For the releases to the Portage tree; this would have to be deduced from the release lines ChangeLog, as there is no other file that yields details on changes that happened to the package. For a demonstration of those release lines: $ grep '^*' /usr/portage/sys-kernel/gentoo-sources/ChangeLog | tac ... *gentoo-sources-3.13.9 (04 Apr 2014) *gentoo-sources-3.4.86 (03 Apr 2014) *gentoo-sources-3.10.36 (04 Apr 2014) *gentoo-sources-3.12.16 (04 Apr 2014) Stabilizations would be harder, as they require to parse the log messages in the ChangeLog; it is not standardized to be parsed out. Portage does have functionality to obtain the ChangeLogs entries between two versions; the -l parameter (--changelog) does that, so, the information is not far away. The implementation might need some specific Portage and Python knowledge though; so, I'd suggest a feature request for one of the Portage developers to look into this. It might work to try to grep those ChangeLog release lines from that output. We can however proceed and try to see if we can do this external. If you have app-portage/eix, a list of updates is easy to obtain: $ eix -Iuc ... [U] media-libs/freetype (2.5.0.1(2)@04/11/2014 - (~)2.5.3-r1(2)): A high-quality and portable font engine [U] media-plugins/gst-plugins-faac (0.10.23(0.10)@01/31/2013 - 0.10.23(0.10)^t 1.2.3(1.0)^t): plugin for gstreamer [U] media-plugins/gst-plugins-soup (0.10.31(0.10)@12/04/2012 - 0.10.31(0.10)^t 1.2.3(1.0)^t): GStreamer plugin for HTTP client source ... We can use this information to write a fast (~1s) bash shell script: https://gist.github.com/TomWij/a813e9bf0314007bf0da That can produce a list of upgrades and when the ebuilds were released: $ bash ./when-released.sh ... *freetype-2.5.3-r1 (16 Mar 2014) *gst-plugins-faac-1.2.3 (01 Mar 2014) *gst-plugins-soup-1.2.3 (16 Feb 2014) ... One issue I see though is that it gives back versions of slots in which you have nothing installed; it requires much more logic, unless eix can somehow do this I suppose that logic would be interaction with Portage. And if we go down that road, we might just as well ask for it to be implemented; unless someone knowledgeable can help us further. Although besides that problem, it otherwise does work quite well here; if not, feel free to inform and we can try to further improve matching. (PS: Yes, it's quite hackish, no shebang, no POSIX compliance; it is meant as an PoC example, further improvements can be done later) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge ---p --depclean - check me...
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 16:51:39 +0530 Nilesh Govindrajan m...@nileshgr.com wrote: seems alright except virtual/init That is a virtual that is no longer used, it is thus safe to remove. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Remove default 'gentoo' repo in repos.conf
On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 12:42:42 -0700 Alex Crawford alex.crawf...@coreos.com wrote: I am attempting to remove the default 'gentoo' repository definition from my list of repositories. Even though I am using a custom repos.conf in /etc/portage, I see that portage is including the default 'gentoo' entry from /usr/share/portage/config/repos.conf. Is there any way I can indicate in /etc/portage/repos.conf to remove the 'gentoo' repository? Thanks. For a temporary solution, make /usr/portage as empty as possible; for a more permanent solution, I'd suggest to look at how Gentoo forks do this. Though I think that most of the forks still use the Portage tree; so, it might be hard to find what you are looking for. You can also put /usr/share/portage/config/repos.conf in CONFIG_PROTECT and adjust it there; put a symlink in /etc for convenience, such that you won't forget about it when scanning through /etc config files. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo Snort handbook is out of date
On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 15:25:31 +0100 Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: I just wanted to save some time and confusion for anyone wanting to dip a toe into the muddy snort waters. You can file a bug to have the page update or be marked as outdated. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Perl-cleaner failing
On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 19:12:23 +0300 Viktar Patotski xp.vit@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to run perl-cleaner --reallyall And it fails with following reason: Total: 137 packages (5 upgrades, 1 downgrade, 2 new, 129 reinstalls), Size of downloads: 222 kB !!! Multiple package instances within a single package slot have been pulled !!! into the dependency graph, resulting in a slot conflict: Did you upgrade your system (`emerge -auvDN @world`) prior to this? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Perl-cleaner failing
On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 20:00:43 +0300 Viktar Patotski xp.vit@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for your reply, Yes I tried to update. But packages failing to install because of some perl XML libriaries problems. I googled and found suggestions to run perl-cleaner and it doesn;t run for me. Exclude those with --exclude ...; as perl-cleaner needs to be run after a Perl upgrade (not only Perl, but also its libraries), and if that as part of a system upgrade didn't completely go well then perl-cleaner will come across blockers due to an inconsistent system state. It is like before you're able to drive with your car (use Perl apps); you need a certificate that your car is alright (perl-cleaner), but for that to be in order you need to work on fixing up your car (upgrade). -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Perl-cleaner failing
On Tue, 8 Apr 2014 00:06:49 +0100 Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 8 Apr 2014 02:02:12 +0300, Viktar Patotski wrote: It seems to me that there is a problem with: virtual/perl-Locale-Maketext-Simple-0.210.0-r3:0/0::gentoo which tries to emerge dev-lang/perl-5.16.3, while dev-lang/perl-5.18.2:0 is used in the system. That virtual depends on one of =dev-lang/perl-5.18* =dev-lang/perl-5.16* =dev-lang/perl-5.14* ~dev-lang/perl-5.12.4... but it was probably installed with 5.16. As it is a virtual, you can safely unmerge it, portage should pull it back in with the correct deps. He just needs to do a world upgrade to fix this up; and in doing so, backtrack as much as necessary (eg. --backtrack=9001 will do) as well as exclude packages that bail out in the progress (eg. --exclude ATOM). Unmerging might not necessarily fix up blockers by lack of backtracking. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How to appoint python version for a package
On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 13:15:59 +0800 林守磊 linxiu...@gmail.com wrote: @all I found that is a bug from package pygments-1.6_p20140324, and I downgrade to 1.6-r1. problem solved ! @Tom that mean pygments-1.6_p20140324 do not support python3_2, thank you a lot Indeed. Bugs appear to have been filed about this: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=470962 https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=489198 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] How to appoint python version for a package
On Wed, 2 Apr 2014 19:56:44 +0800 林守磊 linxiu...@gmail.com wrote: I just want emerge retext Which version of retext are you trying to emerge? and run it by python3.3, Python 3.3 is supported in retext 4.0.1-r2 and 4.1.1. how to set PYTHON_TAGETS just for this package In package.use you can put: app-editors/retext python_targets_python3_3 If can't, tell me why python3.2 case problem below ^^^ Did you intend to write 3.2 instead of 3.3 here? return u'[%s-%s]' % (unichr(a), unichr(b)) ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Can you attach the complete build.log? PS: Note that I'm the maintainer of app-editors/retext. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] How to appoint python version for a package
On Wed, 2 Apr 2014 20:29:41 +0800 Wang Xuerui idontknw.w...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-04-02 20:26 GMT+08:00 Wang Xuerui idontknw.w...@gmail.com: 2014-04-02 19:56 GMT+08:00 林守磊 linxiu...@gmail.com: return u'[%s-%s]' % (unichr(a), unichr(b)) [snip] so the program will work in Python 3.3 but not 3.2 Oops, there is also unichr. Seems the program is Python 2.x only, in which case you can try using package.env (google it) to override the PYTHON_TARGETS variable (or really, any variable in the build environment). Reporting to upstream is also welcomed, though. Or he can provide the build log such that I can reproduce and fix it. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] How to get rid of Python2 (where possible)
On Sat, 29 Mar 2014 11:45:46 +0100 Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Unfortunately, this doesn't solve my problem. If I remove python2_7 from PYTHON_TARGET emerge -auvDN @world --backtrack=9001 fails for those packages which don't support Python3. But if I keep python2_7 in PYTHON_TARGET then all packages which support Python2_7 and Python3_3 are installed twice, once in /usr/lib64/python2.7 and then in /usr/lib64/python3.3 But I'm looking for a means to install packages which do support Python3.3 only for Python3.3 and which installs packages which don't support Python3.3 nevertheless under /usr/lib64/python2.7 It is similar to what I suggested in the first mail, without single_: Set these in /etc/portage/package.use like so: dev-util/eric python_target_python2_7 (Yes, PYTHON_TARGET expands to USE flags.) The tricky thing about this, per previous mail, that you need to keep into account that once you set a target on a Python based package, that it also needs to be set on its Python based dependencies; which means that if a certain Python based package is 2.x-only, you'll need to build its dependencies with 2.x too for it to be able to function. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] How to get rid of Python2 (where possible)
On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:27:00 +0100 Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: PYTHON_COMPAT=python2_7 python3_3 python3_4 This is a variable meant for packages; and thus, setting it in make.conf has no effect afaik. PYTHON_TARGETS=python2_7 python3_3 python3_4 You'll want to set this to what you want. # PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=python2_7 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=python3_3 in my /etc/portage/make.conf and portage itself is Python3-based. I have to toggle the two PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET lines depending on some packages, e.g., dev-util/eric requires PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET=python3_3 which causes other packages not to install. Set these in /etc/portage/package.use like so: dev-util/eric python_single_target_python3_3 (Yes, PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET expands to USE flags.) I have tried to remove python2_7 from PYTHON_TARGETS but then I cannot re-install portage although it is based on Python3. Why is this? Can you share us the log or output of that? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] How to get rid of Python2 (where possible)
On Fri, 28 Mar 2014 11:42:59 +0100 Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: sys-apps/portage:0 (sys-apps/portage-:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by sys-apps/portage (Argument) (sys-apps/portage-:0/0::gentoo, installed) pulled in by sys-apps/portage[**SNIP**] required by (app-portage/gentoolkit-dev-0.2.8.3-r1:0/0::gentoo, installed) sys-apps/portage[**SNIP**] required by (app-admin/webapp-config-1.53:0/0::gentoo, installed) sys-apps/portage[**SNIP**] required by (app-portage/flaggie-0.2.1:0/0::gentoo, installed) The thing with Python is that it wants 'packages that support Python' depend on 'Python packages that have the same versions supported'. Iotw, from the above example; let's say the reverse dependencies gentoolkit-dev, webapp-config, flaggie, ... were build with 2.x and with 3.x, they would want both 2.x and 3.x set on sys-apps/portage. If you drop 2.x you can't just rebuild Portage, you'll need to rebuild the reverse deps as well; such that they no longer want 2.x on Portage. So, when changing PYTHON_TARGET in make.conf; you will want to do something along the lines of `emerge -auvDN @world --backtrack=9001`, this to ensure that the reverse dependencies of Portage no longer depend on Portage having the previously set Python versions. Portage will then go ahead and rebuild both Portage and its reverse dependencies; that way, it doesn't create the conflict you saw. (Backtracking 9001 so it is sufficiently high to not cause conflicts) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] rubygems-1.9.1 error
On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:23:55 + Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb:30:in `require': cannot load such file -- rubygems/defaults (LoadError) The missing file is there, I think: # ls -la /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34951 Apr 20 2012 /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb What now? It can't load what is on line 30 of that file; there'll be a require instruction, and that require instruction would bring in another file. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] rubygems-1.9.1 error
On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 22:44:23 + Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 24 Mar 2014 21:28:56 Tom Wijsman wrote: On Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:23:55 + Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb:30:in `require': cannot load such file -- rubygems/defaults (LoadError) The missing file is there, I think: # ls -la /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 34951 Apr 20 2012 /usr/lib64/ruby/1.9.1/rubygems.rb What now? It can't load what is on line 30 of that file; there'll be a require instruction, and that require instruction would bring in another file. Aha! That's what it meant. :-) The line in question is: require 'rubygems/defaults' Where should I look for that? Not that I know Ruby programming; but I assume that either looks for a defaults file in a rubygems directory, or it looks for a defaults module inside a rubygems file. You might want to file a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org for the Ruby maintainers to fix this dependency. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:29:03 +0100 null_ptr rhan...@gmx.de wrote: I attached them. Old config/lsmod/dmesg is the first parameter of the diff. Looks okay to me; I see in the other thread that it was clarified that this is a problem through the speakers/headset and thus not through the PC speaker, which leads me to think you have either Volker's idea that it is muted in alsa-mixer (why would a kernel upgrade do this?) or you have an actual bug in one of the kernel sound modules (more likely?). If it is a kernel bug, then I think that switching back to the old kernel would make it work again; if that's the case, I suggest you to consider a git bisect between the two releases to find the bad commit: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel_git-bisect -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 04:52:47 -0500 Bruce Hill da...@happypenguincomputers.com wrote: It's my sincere hope that someone's persistence hammered some common sense and email etiquette into his attitude. Other Gentoo Developers did; but, I'll make an exception for this list. The mailing list etiquette requires people to CC all the people involved in a particular thread in replies to the mailing list, in case any of them is not subscribed. — http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Procmail -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] issue 2973
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 13:35:06 +0100 Karol bgu...@gmail.com wrote: -- listname+unsubscr...@lists.gentoo.org B.S. Replace listname by gentoo-user; to unsubscribe, send that mail to: gentoo-user+unsubscr...@lists.gentoo.org -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:06:12 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: And you have been told repeatedly that the actual real life users on this actual real life list would like you to stop doing it. We didn't write that FAQ, I fail to see how it applies and this is not -dev, not does QA play any role in this. The etiquette was perceived to apply anywhere for Gentoo Developers; as you can see, this perception conflicts when coming across different expectations, and therefore the exception has been made. This isn't the first time this difference comes up; a former Gentoo Developer, Ciaran, has had a similar moment[1] on this mailing list about 10 years ago with different people around at a point of time where this appears to not have been a strict rule on this mailing list. [1]: [gentoo-user] Mailing List etiquette FAQ @ Google Groups https://groups.google.com/d/msg/linux.gentoo.user/2-Zv19Ggyus/is5ug9mcCcwJ Now please learn to play by the rules and expectations of the existing users of a community you have joined newly. The rules and expectations were perceived per etiquette; there's no other place where I can see them listed for the gentoo-user ML in specific, therefore I cannot assume one or two individuals to speak the truth about those rules. Perhaps we can start such a list of rules? It gets odd if they conflict with what Gentoo Developers are expected to do per the etiquette, you can see I need to be careful with what I do; therefore I've continued to do what a Gentoo Developer is expected to. That's why I was only convinced at the point that a lot more than those two individuals made this request; at that point, it becomes clear that this is a majority rather than those two individuals that asked me. If the doc is so important to you, please update it with an exception for -user and state this is the general consensus of that list. Done. Then please learn how to back down and gracefully accept the wishes of others. You have no special rights here. As per more users, that was done; I always intend to follow the rules. Sorry; I hope you see where this approach came from, I'm not trying to override a majority or intentionally act different than the community. Sorry again; thank you for your understanding. PS: To make it clear that I stopped: The last 15 mails were without CC. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 18:35:20 +0100 null_ptr rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 23/03/14 11:06, Tom Wijsman wrote: Switching to the old kernel fixed it so I bisected the linux-stable sources (as in the wiki) and the first bad commit is bd450dcc357. Attached is the bisect.log. Since it seems like it's a kernel bug I will create a bug report. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/ Can you send me a link me (or CC me) to the kernel bug when you do so? As a kernel maintainer, I can follow and perhaps backport a patch. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user]
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 19:48:38 +0200 Nikita Tropin posixivis...@gmail.com wrote: See `config.log' for more details More details, warnings and errors can be found by reading the build.log from the bottom until you come across them; in this case, the above quote reveals that more details are in config.log. If you read up from the bottom of config.log, skipping the summary of variables; you'll find the actual error. Am I need to do smth (e.g. register a bug) or it's my local problem? Yes, this way, the developers can fix it to avoid it from happening for other users too; can you comment with the output of `emerge --info` and attach build.log as well as config.log? Thank you in advance. If needed, resources with extra details about filing bug reports: - https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Beautiful_bug_reports - https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Bugzilla_HOWTO -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:34:53 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree. Can we agree to disagree? Your default position on things seems to be to favour the theoretical position over the reality. I'm the opposite, being a sysadmin and not a developer I'm a realist and not a theoretician. I work with the way things are and really only look at the theory when stuff is proven broken. That I want my time to be spent useful is reality, not just theory; until you can show me the invisible subscription state as well as the Reply-To mungling are features, I keep my mailer fixed to unbreak that. What is currently happening is you are sending mails directly addressed to me so they do not get filtered and end up cluttering my already full inbox. That is because you address me about this matter; if you weren't, I wouldn't have sent you a single mail. Or perhaps one in a hundred days; I consider the meta discussion brought up here to be more cluttering than that uncertain single mail. You are breaking my filters. Why do you filters allow list messages in your inbox? I do want you to fix your mailer so that you stop inconveniencing me. And I would *really* prefer not to have to tweak my filters to accommodate you. I'd rather you do that heavy lifting (on account of you causing it). That list messages land in your inbox is caused by your filter and mail client; as you can see per the example procmail rule, as well as my mail client, neither of both do that here. Do you see what I'm getting at? No; I don't see why I should stop following the mailing list etiquette, start relying on possibly wasting time as well as break what is fixed. But yes; for convenience, I've dropped you from CC. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:57:40 +0200 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi wrote: I agree. I think it is arrogant to disturb lots of people that have done nothing to deserve it. People should be let to choose them self what they wanna do with their lives. If they wish to disengage some conversation, let them. Don't send them spam. spam is send to a large number of recipients; I don't see how what is discussing here is doing that, apart from extending this discussion. It's not arrogant; it's a technical difference, which sets up different approaches. That's why developers are requested to follow the etiquette. The ones who wish to participate will stay on the list and the ones seeking for an answer can browse the archives. People that participate maybe are on the list and the ones seeking for an answer might browse the archives. Please respect other people. Here's something that works for the both of us: Request someone to not CC you in a follow-up mail when you catch them do it, they'll respect that; that's a guarantee that we can be certain that you are subscribed. That way; you respect that I want to spent my time to be guaranteed to be useful, I respect that you don't want to be CC-ed in follow-up mails. Similarly; if someone is off-list; it takes a single mail to keep me from sending additional mails. As it clarifies a disengagement; that unsubscribing is meant to be a disengagement, I can't find that rule... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 06:08:35 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: To the point about folks unsubscribing, if they do unsubscribe from the list, it may be because they got what they want and do NOT want any more messages. Or it may be because they are tired of the flow of mails, but yet they are still awaiting a reply; the only respectful guarantee that works for the both of us is if the user states a solution was found and/or addresses me to send no further emails, that gives guarantees. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:00:59 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: [...] so my point over 5 weeks ago was not about the difficulty in _finding_ the changes, Ah, thanks; I see. but about keeping track of those changes and implementing htem. Here, I would agree with if you have a lot of other things to do; I don't see this as a problem though for someone whom puts time apart to do such a fork, keeping track is as easy as following two git logs. Granted, understanding and implementing the changes is another story, in which I again agree with you; I just wanted to point out they're not hidden, they're just not announced, but it appears we agree on that. if you read the rest of the thread you will see that in a whole i was arguing that it is disingenuous to suggest that gnome does not require logind. There is indeed an URL brought up early on, with which I agree with: https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2013/09/25/gnome-and-logindsystemd-thoughts/ There's also a more recent post that I think hasn't been brought up: https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2014/02/03/my-thoughts-on-the-default-init-system-for-debian-discussion if you don't see that perhaps you could volunteer to add logind api features to openRC ? Well, I wish I could accomplish all these things; but I have other work that I'm committing myself to, I've been thinking about a proof of concept to point out it is possible but I haven't had the time to do it. My past commits were spent on bringing MATE to the Portage tree; if I would work on a logind implementation, there wouldn't be MATE. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:56:17 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:15:49 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Here's something that works for the both of us: Request someone to not CC you in a follow-up mail when you catch them do it, they'll respect that; that's a guarantee that we can be certain that you are subscribed. I tried that, you cc'd your response to me... Well, it is new; this response has no CC. You are using Claws-Mail, it is easy to set up per-folder configurations. I hit Reply, th reply goes to the list, I have to take the specific step of using Reply to All to send you to copies of the email. How to set this up per folder? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 09:35:50 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/21/2014 5:57 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: How does one send email to*THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. I think that is the main and primary point. I loathe lists that allow posts from non subscribers (spitlibreoffice users/spit), because it creates this exact problem. We could fix *THIS* list to not allow that to exist; given that change, I'm fine with dropping CC on every mail on *THIS* list. Furthermore, I've asked in another mail how to set this per folder in my mail client; which should allow me to conform to the wishes of a list. But in those cases, it should be on those who wish to leech (ask questions/get help from the list without having to subscribe) to proactively get their answers, by reading the archives on the web, etc. People participate in more than just this list; at that point, there's a lot to check up with. It creates an information overflow; or rather, too much to check up on. This is why notifications were invented on various new and modern websites; though, given that mailing list archives date from a while ago, such notifications are not yet present on such services. Up to a point that the user is unaware of that; even when using the web form where they had to fill in their mail, 'cause why did they have to fill in their mail there anyway? The burden absolutely should NEVER be on the list participants to try to figure out who needs to be individually CC'd on replies and who doesn't. But given the technical difficulties, there is such a burden on us; that's why it is part of the mailing list etiquette that I follow and are requested to follow by other Gentoo developers. Of course, if someone asks a question on such a list, and they specifically mention they are not subscribed and ask to be directly CC'd, then that is the one case when doing so is ok. If they are aware; but see my response to leeching, are they aware? But to blindly do this to everyone on the list just to insure that your oh-so-valuable reply makes it to the OP is just the height of arrogance and conceit. This isn't done blindly; I check up the rules and FAQ prior to do doing it, as well as listen to participants that warn me early. In this case, for the Gentoo mailing lists, the mailing list etiquette was brought to my attention and therefore I have been CC-ing for hundreds of e-mails without any remarks (and most people just repsond), to be surprised that a whole discussion about it is started here. It isn't arrogance or conceit; rather, it is being consistent and following etiquette. You should note that the early part of this discussion is based on one or two individuals that appear as inconsistent; however, given there are more people that voice this now, _I am concerned_ to change it specifically for those who request it and we could solve the technical difficulty by reducing the problem by requesting off-list replies to be disallowed and/or adapting the mail to new subscribers to mention that if they want to be CC-ed that they should explicitly mention that. Yes, I am inconsistent with *THIS* mailing list; let's change things to make such inconsistency unnecessary, to fix this forever and always. Otherwise we'll continue to get responses like these http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/273297 while we could just make those do not ... no longer necessary. Sorry for the hassle and thanks for the understanding. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 10:48:46 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/22/2014 5:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is*technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? He's probably referring to my factual statement that Tom was/is acting like an arrogant prick. This is technically wrong, we're all acting as arrogant pricks; but by picking out a certain individual, this could be perceived as a personal attack to that certain individual. However, that should not withhold that this is just part of a factual statement. This correction of mine also doesn't hold because if this could be perceived as a personal attack against us all; then, to an extent, perhaps we're all not acting as arrogant pricks. We are just mis-perceiving things; and as a result of that, misunderstanding. But maybe, under the 'profit motive', we could all be being arrogant? http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/272557/focus=272818 Sometimes, such 'profit motive's conflict, one man's profit is another man's cost; this reminds me of how the real world works, if one musician gets more fortune and fame, that goes at the cost of another. However, is that musician therefore arrogant for earning lots of money? Not necessarily; as you can see, a lot of these musicians spend excess money on good causes (education centers, countries that had a natural disaster, people with a costly to cure disease, the homeless, ...). Now, you could ask, why doesn't that maybe arrogant musician send everyone some money; well, it could cause maybe arrogant people to benefit from the money without working for it. Well, both can be perceived as being arrogant, or not being arrogant at all... People's time and money is limited; so, it is better well spent. This reminds me of John Covico's e-mail footer; it goes like this: Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? Lots of people confuse factual statements with personal attacks. As demonstrated above, the confusion is easily made. That said, I've never been know for being tactful... ;) But what have you been known for? :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:28:25 -0300 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: el 2014-03-22 a las 15:50 Tom Wijsman escribió: How to set this up per folder? rigth-click on the folder, Properties... - Compose - default to: Thank you very much +1; I see some other features there too that can be handy, eg. subject RegExp simplification. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:38:54 +0100 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:28:25 -0300 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: el 2014-03-22 a las 15:50 Tom Wijsman escribió: How to set this up per folder? rigth-click on the folder, Properties... - Compose - default to: Thank you very much +1; I see some other features there too that can be handy, eg. subject RegExp simplification. Okay, the CCs have been removed; to anyone else wondering how to do, you can tick the box of the field (here: CC) you want to drop and then leave the textbox empty, that way clicking on All will not CC people. Now I really hope the amount of people not aware of replies is small... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] kde-misc/synaptiks crashes immediately
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:47:23 +0100 Alexander Puchmayr alexander.puchm...@linznet.at wrote: Symptom: Start synaptiks configuration module, get immedeately DrKonqi crash report (trace attached, likely not much useful since I disabled debug flags) Start either from kde systemsettings or konsole; the latter gives alex@prometheus /datadisk/home/alex $ synaptiks Fontconfig warning: /etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf, line 14: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated. KCrash: Application 'synaptiks' crashing... KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/drkonqi from kdeinit sock_file=/homedisk/alex/.kde4/socket-prometheus/kdeinit4__0 unnamed app(17763): Communication problem with synaptiks , it probably crashed. Error message was: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply : Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) Any ideas what could go wrong? The crash would reveal what is wrong; therefore, I suggest you to recompile the libraries of those packages with debug flags. See http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Backtraces Besides that, you might be able to use strace and/or ltrace (with -f parameter; if needed, increase the -s parameter) to see what happens under the hood. I'm suspecting you'll find the cause by inspecting both; because as the trace mixes in evaluation of a Python script, you might need to use strace and/or ltrace to discover which Python script this is. A next step could be to use a debugger on that Python script if the trace, strace and/or ltrace are insufficient to reveal the cause. When you have found the cause, can you file the details in a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org such that the maintainers are aware of this? Thank you very much in advance. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:29:20 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Will, since Tom finally got the point and changed his email program to not CC his replies, it seems to me that Tanstaaf, others and myself were right. It is based on preventing those off-topic replies from being made. I'm still very convinced about my viewpoint; I only not CC on this ML because of those off-topic replies, at the cost of a guarantee. It may have been off topic but if Tom would have just listened in the beginning, there wouldn't have to be so many off topic replies. Such replies could be made off-list; that way, the topic can remain. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:37:20 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 5:48 PM, »Q« boxc...@gmx.net wrote: Why should Gentoo have a default? Defaults are always a good idea - as long as they are reasonable and rational. Depends on how you think about it; one could claim a DE as default as reasonable and rational going one way, one could also claim something like LFS or stage1 or so to be reasonable and rational. I think the init system, as it becomes more of a choice, is on the edge here... ISTM the only good reason is that not having a default would make the documentation a lot more complicated. Documentation, *and* the install process itself. It's just one extra choice; so, that takes maybe a few minutes. It's a choice one would have to eventually make anyway; so, better do it early and have it right at once instead of having to do a more complicated migration later on. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:23:05 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:00 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:53:51 +0400 Andrew Savchenko birc...@gmail.com wrote: OpenRC is default in Gentoo now, and it is my best hope it will be. Do you have a source that backs up this claim? Are you seriously challenging the FACT that OpenRC is the default init system in gentoo? Depends on how you define default; because as far as can be seen, it is by consequence rather than by decision. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:25:18 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/20/2014 4:14 PM, Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: Tom - please STOP CC'ing me on these emails. I am on the list and don't need two copies. Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. For more insight: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:32:28 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: A login daemon should be started by the init system, not be an integral part of it. What happens when logind no longer fulfils developers needs, as is the case with ConsoleKit now, how can it be replaced with an improved service when it is so closely tied to the init system. It is started by the init system, as evidenced by the presence of systemd-logind.service as well as there being a separate systemd-logind executable; it is simply replaced by not starting the service, instead, starting another service that fits those needs. Also: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/configure.ac#n798 -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:54:55 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: On Sun, February 16, 2014 22:16, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: oh? I can pipe that output into cat or any any daemon I like? Doesn't look like so. But it does, you can cat with journalctl; it's one of its output options: -o, --output= cat generates a very terse output only showing the actual message of each journal entry with no meta data, not even a timestamp. As I do not have systemd installed on any machine, I can't check the man-pages. http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/man But, if that is the only method to get parseable text from journalctl, then that is less then useless. Why? There are other output methods. See the man pages... I would expect an export option providing the same detail level as I currently find in /var/log/messages. That's what you can control with the various options of -o. A timestamp is a minimum required for logging system output. Depends on how you are processing that output. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:50:07 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: It all sounds too much like the MS Windows Event-viewer to me. Too many events with no usefull logging information (And I am referring to OS-level messages as to why default services are not starting) The MS Windows Event-viewer has very nice filtering capabilities; beyond that, the detailed information gives you the error code that you can look up in the documentation. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 23:00:43 +0400 Yuri K. Shatroff yks-...@yandex.ru wrote: I wonder why all systemd's fancy stuff hasn't yet been integrated into any existing init system, because of theoretical impossibility or just practical uselessness? A lot of it is being integrated in some as we speak; however, other init systems are slow to catch up. In the last two months; as you can see, there haven't been meaningful commits to OpenRC other than small documentation fixes. The shortlog allows me to see the entire last year. http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/openrc.git;a=log http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/openrc.git;a=shortlog -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 07:57:06 -0500 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Getting the Gentoo Council behind this idea, and providing an officially supported - or maybe a better term is *mandated* - process whereby systemd proponents can create and then maintain new systemd versions of any existing profiles. I guess maybe it is time to go open a bug about this? I would be happy to do this, but maybe it would be better if someone who has much more knowledge of the inner workings of the Gentoo Council and whatever process governs things like this to do it? Wait on the gentoo-project ML for a mail gathering agenda items; once that happens, reply to it clearly explaining your request and what you would want them to discuss or vote on. Then you can watch and/or participate in the next meeting (they announce when that is there) and/or read up about their decision in the log and/or summary as they come online; for further details, you can read up here: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100 J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote: Tom, Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list. Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html Also, no need to reopen a closed mail A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply. thread with replies that re-iterate already mentioned information. Canek said the same in his replies. Yes, I saw that after sending this mail; for most replies I do I check up on it in advance, in this case I missed and/or forgot. Sorry. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:10:49 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: So let's get this straight. You want most everyone on this list to change what they have to do to remove dups caused by you, instead of you changing what you do to fix the problem? Everyone else is okay with it, as only one in a thousand speaks up about it; the problem rather is with that 0.1% than that it is with me, as I just use mailing lists as they are supposed to be used. To put it another way, you want to inconvenience everyone else instead of doing things the way everyone else does it and has done it for a long time? That's what the Reply-To header mungling does; it makes you unable to tell me through the Reply-To header what you want, and as a result I need to use the default than to be able to automatically respect it. As can be seen, that is an automatic guarantee that it will reach you. Just as well as the automatic guarantee that the same Message ID is the same message; and thus, your mail client should be filtering duplicates. Here's a hint. I can see a LOT of people adding you to their blacklist. You could very well end up talking to yourself on this mailing list. Here's a hint. Lots of people appear to respond to me. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:27:09 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:13:28 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Use 'Reply-To-List' function (or equivalent - or worst case, delete my direct email manually yourself) in your email program. Like everyone else, use the 'Filter duplicates' function in your email program or procmail; these requests aren't remembered, given that email programs don't provide a function to do this selectively. Don't they? Then why did you only get one copy of this reply, via the list? Most posters here do not have this problem, Did I receive a reply? Who says I am even subscribed to the list? Of course, if you don't want people to bother reading your mails, continue to piss them off. All I'm doing is making sure this message gets to you; every notion you give to it beyond that, is what that 0.1% thinks of it. Not my problem. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:41:54 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
On Fri, March 21, 2014 12:59, Tom Wijsman wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:50:23 +0100
J. Roeleveld jo...@antarean.org wrote:
Tom,
Please reply to list. No need to include me in the recipient list.
Please filter duplicate mails. No need to tell each other this.
I filter on the server, using SIEVE-scripts.
Please provide the correct syntax I need to do this.
The vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension can be used to do this, RFC:
http://hg.rename-it.nl/dovecot-2.1-pigeonhole/raw-file/tip/doc/rfc/spec-bosch-sieve-duplicate.txt
It is designed exactly for this purpose, quote from the introduction:
Duplicate deliveries are a common side-effect of being subscribed
to a mailing list.
Example correct syntax:
require [vnd.dovecot.duplicate, fileinto, mailbox];
if duplicate {
fileinto :create Trash/Duplicate;
}
This will move duplicates to Trash/Duplicate, given that you enable the
vnd.dovecot.duplicate extension; I use a similar rule in procmail.
You are the only one causing duplicate emails, all others on this
list do NOT cause duplicate emails.
That's because some people here are users that don't commonly use
bigger mailing lists and thus have no such filter in place; however,
when you get to participate in bigger mailing lists, you will get such
duplicate mails by design if you don't have a filter. Take for example
the LKML, where it is common practice that relevant mailing lists as
well as individuals are CC-ed; you'll get a dupe as one of either.
Being the sender of a message, however, some mailing lists allow you to
control whether you want to be CC-ed; this can be done by setting a
Reply-To header, but in this case it is always overridden which
removes the ability to guarantee you'll receive the message.
There are other participants on the Gentoo mailing lists that
participate in other mailing lists too; and when met with Reply-To
mungling, they do the same approach. eg. Michał Górny (mgorny)
This means the cause is on your side and the solution should then
also be on your side.
The goal is to ensure people receive their mail; if I were to make a
solution on my sight, it voids that goal as the guarantee is gone.
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html
I disagree with those. Seen those arguments before along with the
opposite versions. Mailing lists where a reply does not work are
broken. Mailing lists where I always end up with duplicate replies
don't stay used by myself for very long.
Given a present filter, I use any mailing list; I don't let technical
differences in the software being used overcome the ability to state
something on a mailing list, and if a technical difference does matter
to someone (0.1% in this case) I expect them to adapt. This ain't a
place where One True Way is to be enforced; as you can see, I very
well consider the standard reply button to be broken...
Also, no need to reopen a closed mail
A thread can't be closed by its individuals; you can choose to not
reply, but that doesn't withhold the ability for others to reply.
True, but a mail-thread that hasn't had a reply for over a month is
usually considered closed. It's nice that you decide to catch up with
your emails, but please then take care not to flood inboxes as well.
Similar to above, right click and ignore thread could be used as
well as sort / group by thread; as without both features, there's no
dam in place to avoid the flood from happening.
As for the river / sea, there's no way to convince the river / sea to
go away; it'll be there, even if you could use a bucket to remove me,
there'll be another person or so tomorrow.
In comparison, on the LKML you will get replies one or more months
later; if you there then reply claiming a thread is closed, it'll be
perceived as everything but that...
--
With kind regards,
Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
Gentoo Developer
E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:13:27 -0400 Poison BL. poiso...@gmail.com wrote: fighting on the topic of 'proper use of mailing lists' when you're standing in stark contrast to the configuration of the mailing list you're using to do it, Which fight? It is a short notice as to why it is being done, as well as what can be done to make a change. Convincing individually isn't. and in the process, telling everyone (many of which have been around here helping other users for many, many, years) that they're wrong for using the list they've been using in the manner they've been using it... Words are being turned around here, I've never said someone is wrong; however, I provided filtering as an option to them to consider. when I see your name appear the first time as long ago as last Dec., is rather on the arrogant side at the least (I'm not certain if you've been around -dev or another longer, as I don't believe I'm subscribed on that one). There are more mailing lists and communication mediums; the reason I've not replied much in this one since last year, is because I've let this inbox grow to ~1000 unread mails or so which I'm progressing now. If you're really hellbent on getting the configuration of the list changed, feel free to take it up with the person who configures the list, rather than approaching it by being condescending to the people who consistently use it. That's for those that have a problem with it to do; as well a getting it confirmed that a certain way of responding is required, there's been nothing said about it when mails of mine went out to persons from the infrastructure team on the gentoo-dev ML and neither by other devs. Developers recommend each other to use a rule, and everyone uses it; it might be a side effect of procmail being available on our dev SSH, but in any case it works out well for every developer, see this link: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Procmail The mailing list etiquette requires people to CC all the people involved in a particular thread in replies to the mailing list, in case any of them is not subscribed. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:53:22 -0300 Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: Debian, and Ubuntu are desktop platforms. Yes they are widely used in production server environments (the slow ones that is) however, our last experience with Debian squeeze as a whole (ie, source tree, reliability, performance), was inhospitable. Dare I say, it was making as nauseated as we would be behind a Windows machine... Really? Debian is a desktop distro? Gentoo it is also, as ALMOST every distro... Gentoo is a meta distro; because of that, you can make it whatever you want to be nearly unlimited (other than by available manpower). :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Multiple package instances ..... Help me understand this emerge error, please.
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 11:54:43 + Alan Mackenzie a...@muc.de wrote: On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 01:32:36AM +0100, waben...@gmail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 22.02.2014 um 21:15 What do I have to do to get this thing emerged? Thanks! Sometimes it is helpful to increase the backtrack value. Some weeks ago I had a similar problem and could I solve it with emerge --backtrack=100 ... Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, it didn't help. :-( Maybe there is a blocker then? Scanned the entire thread; I'm not sure, but can you let us know if the problem is resolved and how? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
