Re: [gentoo-user] silly daylight saving [WAS: Running xsane]
On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:15:14 +0100, Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de wrote: Peter Humphrey wrote: Outside USA we have no illusions of saving time by adjusting our clocks. When it comes to politicians, I'm not quite that sure. Over here in Germany, there're lots of them who still believe in that insane idea of messing up the clocks would bring anything but useless hassle. I really wonder if there's some hidden lobby which benefits from this crap or it's really just stupidity ;-O cu Well daylight savings do make sense. The idea isn't as much to gain hours in a day, we have 24 hours in a day. The idea is for the body to follow the rhythm of the day. Noon is when the sun is at its highest. Depending on how the sun is positioned in comparison to the earth. So it makes sense with daylight savings, although it does mean that I go to school when it's dark and come home after dark. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, KMail also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, not just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things that aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is this the correct term?) dependencies. Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an optional dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some don't mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus becomes bloat. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, KMail also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, not just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things that aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is this the correct term?) dependencies. Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an optional dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some don't mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus becomes bloat. and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does not force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma- desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing manager But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to (I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have symantic-desktop as a hard dependency. And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager. Be it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE? Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as dbus is bad because it's new. I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all ;)) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:46:57 +0100, BRM bm_witn...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message From: Zeerak Waseem zeera...@gmail.com On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, KMail also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, not just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things that aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is this the correct term?) dependencies. Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an optional dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) Obviously you don't understand the reason for the dependency. It does not exist so that Kmail can index all the files on the system but for the opposite - so that Kmail can participate in the search by allowing the system to be able to search _its_ data. And, btw, you're not turning it off within Kmail, but at the system - DE - level. The application itself will still check to see if it could participate, only to have nothing turned on to support so then it doesn't do anything. Right, but then when the DE isn't a DE, but a window manager, a minimal one, then it's kind of a strange for a function to be forced outside of the specific DE. Well it seems strange to me anyway. In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Question: are you a software developer? Kmail probably has the dependency the way they do b/c it is far easier to make it one and let the system determine not to support the functionality than it is to litter the codebase with if (symanticDesktopEnabled)... code. An aspiring one, yes. And it probably easier to just make it a hard dep, however if the quality of their application for anyone -not- using kde. It's sensible for it being set if you have kde, but if you don't have kde it just seems very out of place. Some don't mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus becomes bloat. No more than it is bloat for gcc to support mmx/sse/sse2/sse3/sse4 when your processor cannot. Ben I hadn't considered that particular thing, but yes, in a sense you're right. I mean there is difference for a compiler and a mail app, with gcc you can compile for another system so the it supports things your processor doesn't support doesn't necessarily mean that you won't need the support, with a mail app you can... But essentially, if you know you'll never need to compile for another processor, then yes I'd consider it bloat. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:51:01 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE, KMail also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE, not just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus. Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit. But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things that aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is this the correct term?) dependencies. Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an optional dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-) In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some don't mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus becomes bloat. and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does not force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma- desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing manager But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to (I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have symantic-desktop as a hard dependency. yes it is a good idea. Because KDE is such a modular beast you can not just install kmail, konqueror or kate. You always need a bit more for full functionality. KDE strives to be a COMPLETE, networking, work and data sharing aware desktop solution. Semantic-Desktop is a huge part of it. If you never used nepomuk, you don't even know what you are missing. I have tried it, briefly so I won't claim to know all the merits, but it didn't seem to be a huge addition to my life. To each his own however :-) I don't know, I just considered flexibility and as much being as far independent of anything that isn't strictly related to the core functions of the application. But again, this is just my take, and the entire development with KDE is interesting to follow and I'll surely be following this development with a great interest. And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager. you can use whatever WM you want in KDE. Isn't that nice. Be it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE? what are you even talking about? Well what I mean is that Semantic-desktop is a part of the KDE DE, right? So anyone not using the fullblown DE, but simply a few apps is being forced to install semantic-desktop with various KDE apps. And sure you can use whatever WM in KDE, but that was never really the point, at least not how I intended it, pardons if I was too vague about it. My point was if you only run a window manager and not any DE at all. Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as dbus is bad because it's new. I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all ;)) no, I have the feeling that you are trolling. Oh, well I'm very sorry that you get that impression, I am actually quite interested in some arguments for why you consider
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:55:23 +0100, Roy Wright r...@wright.org wrote: On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:00:27 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: Yes, I can organize my files to the point where I rarely ever use find. Just because you can't, is not a reason to slow down everybody else's desktop. Is this ignorance or FUD? It must be FUD because it has already been stated countless times in this thread that this service can be switched off. Just to come full circle, the thread started because the kmail is now requiring the semantic-desktop USE flag. So the consensus seems to be that if you use kmail, then you have to compile the semantic desktop features, then go back and turn off using the semantic desktop. Agreed, this thead seems to have been blown out of proportion really. One thing is if you install a fullblown DE, then having semantic-desktop is fine, it's also fine that the DE forces you to build it, being that it can be turned off. However I think that random apps that are a part of the DE, but can be deselected, shouldn't have to force the users into building anything that the DE requires. It just seems silly that if you want to use the newest version of kate, kmail etc. that semantic-desktop is forced upon you, when you're not interested in having the entire DE. That's just my take on it anyway. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:05:46 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 09:31:21 Walter Dnes wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 02:18:43PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:57:57 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. Then how did things manage to work on my systems for the past 9 years, pray tell? Because nine years ago, Linux desktop software didn't use interprocess communication. Of course things will still work, but not necessarily everything. For example, Network Manager uses D-Bus to tell programs when your Internet connection is available and not, so your mail client goes into offline mode rather than pointlessly trying to access your mailbox. KDE4 uses it quite extensively, ust as KDE3 used DCOP. There is too much solution-in-search-of-a-problem here. XMMS followed the original Unix philosophy... it did one thing did it right, namely playing audio. Unfortunately, XMMS was hard-coded to use a now obsolete GTK library. Unfortunately, that's analogous to a business employing 5 people, all of whom do their own thing all the time with no inter-person communication and no co- ordination. Perhaps they might scribble a note on a white board once a day, but that's about it. The successor to XMMS is Audacious. It seems to subscribe to the Microsoft philosophy, and tries to do everything under the sun, and pretends it's a server, which requires dbus. Is it *REALLY* necessary? I used XMMS to play mp3's and Live365.com. I ended up switching to mpg123 for both functions when XMMS was dropped, and then to the Flash player for Live365. I emerged Audacious, but unmerged it when I saw the post-install warning that said not to submit any Audacious bug reports if I don't have dbus installed. Modern desktops are integrated, because that's what users want. Any two apps should be able to inter-communicate wherever that communication makes sense. Example: You have any old arbitrary email client. A mail contains a URL. Click it. The URL should open in your preferred browser, whatever that should be. Please note that any email client should support launching any browser, whether the dev built in support for it or not. Yes, I know there are the xdg* scripts, but tally up the number of things a user would want to work like this, tally up the number of scripts in the infinite number of locations this will take, and then ask the user to pick one. Example: Notifications. I have 3 (yes, three!!) kinds of popups that show up here daily. There's KDE's system which is the majority of them, some GTK apps throw popups in the top right corner where I don't want them and them then there's Skype which does it's own thing. God, you gotta love proprietary sekrit apps /sarcasm. The solution is a notification service, apps send their notifications to it and the service does whatever the user configured it to do with the notification. Note that the user is in control here, the user says what happens with popups and does it in one central place and the apps does one thing and one thing only with it's notifications: sends them. It's like syslogger, letting the app concentrate on it's real purpose (which is not logging, and definitely is not making sure it doesn't clobber log files from any other apps that might be running). See where this is going? Do you need a hundred more examples? When you have arbitrary, unknown (at install time) sources of data that may interoperate with other arbitrary, unknown (at install time) sinks of data, good data modelling says that a known broker of data should sit in the middle, which is generic enough for anything to be able to use it. And the transport for that is dbus. Just to bring this back to your original statement of Unix philosophy. IPC on modern desktops conforms exactly to the Unix philosophy. Apps were moving away from that and were becoming IM clients cum custom loggers cum notifiers cum insert any other crap here. Standardized IPC is moving back TOWARDS the Unix philosophy, not away from it. Apps can now concentrate on their core function, and hand over the integration aspects to something else dedicated to IPC and nothing else. The apps now merely does the minimum required to hand over data to the service via a messaging bus. Which if you look at it in that light, is EXACTLY the same rationale as a syslogger. Do you use a syslogger? Why? If you don;t like all this integration stuff, and you have every right to not like it, then you should uninstall KDE and use Openbox (or similar lightweight WM). These WMs exist for users that do not want desktop integration. One thing you cannot have is the latest KDE without it's integration features. True, but even those using Openbox,
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:13:14 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 11 February 2010 23:40:37 Zeerak Waseem wrote: True, but even those using Openbox, icewm, etc. were introduced to the mess that HAL is, and also to dbus. Sure you can choose not to have hal/dbus/*kit, but then you also choose not to use a growing number of apps that seem to depend on it. The way I see it, they should be optional features. If you've got the useflags set, great. If not, then it'll still be able to compile and run. And what exactly is the problem with dbus? At 2MB, it's one of the smallest apps on my notebook. It's memory usage is miniscule, I have to invoke magic to get it to show up in top. All I hear from the anti-dbus crowd is complaints that it's there and not a single shred of evidence, fact or numbers anywhere to back up why it might be a bad thing. Let's rather all sit down and add up the the potential code and resource REDUCTION from dbus due to duplicated functionality being removed from multiple apps. Complaints that reduce to it's there now and it wasn't there before cannot be valid for that reason alone - inotify is there now and wasn't there before, the resource reduction from it's being added is miniscule compared to the amount of polling we now do not have to do. Many other examples exist. hal is different and in a category of it's own; it's resource usage is very small but the developer screwed up by making it complex for users (for the machine it's actually quite simple). We can fix that, and are - udev. I don't see anyone complaining about it being there now and not being there before. Anyone remember what came before udev? Who remembers trying to figure out devfs? Or MKNODE? Do keep in mind that even simple WMs use some form of IPC (well, maybe twm doesn't). The dev has various schemes he can use from pipes on the command line to named pipes and fifos, or he can use a message bus. Personally, I'd go with the latter even if only becuase somebody else with a proven track record is maintaining it (so I don't have to) Oh there's not much of a problem with dbus to be quite honest. But that perhaps is a bit of the point, that dbus seems like it might be, as someone else put it, a solution-in-search-of-a-problem. I can see why it can be smart, but I can also see why it's labeled as a bit useless. Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app communication that is necessary without dbus. Like said, I don't particularly mind it for DE's but if you choose a wm, often you are willingly choosing to be lacking a few things that a DE does. I think that the issue for the anti-dbus crowd is that it's something that is being forced on them, despite having no need of it. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:37:08 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 22:40:37 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote: True, but even those using Openbox, icewm, etc. were introduced to the mess that HAL is, and also to dbus. You're trying to assign guilt by association. They were also introduced to X, hand edited conf files and a faster desktop. Are they all bad too? Yes! :p I'm not saying dbus is all that bad, just that it might be a bit unnecessary for a number of users. Which to me means, that it should be something that can be chosen, rather than something that's chosen for you. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:53:10 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app communication that is necessary without dbus. the problem is the WM can NOT handle all the inter-app communication that is needed by a modern desktop environment. Especially, when you have apps that are just frames around building blocks that have to talk to each other (like for example konqueror, that is just a gui to the dolphin, khtml, konsole, gwenview kparts). But it seems to me, that the apps that need the communication are in DE's. Which is fine, I just think that if you're choosing a smaller WM (Openbox, awesome, JWM, etc.), where there isn't a need for an inter-app communication that extensive, then it's a bit of an overkill really. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:03:27 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:53:10 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Donnerstag 11 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote: Particularly when your wm can handle all the inter-app communication that is necessary without dbus. the problem is the WM can NOT handle all the inter-app communication that is needed by a modern desktop environment. Especially, when you have apps that are just frames around building blocks that have to talk to each other (like for example konqueror, that is just a gui to the dolphin, khtml, konsole, gwenview kparts). But it seems to me, that the apps that need the communication are in DE's. Which is fine, I just think that if you're choosing a smaller WM (Openbox, awesome, JWM, etc.), where there isn't a need for an inter-app communication that extensive, then it's a bit of an overkill really. so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells a broweser or mail app that they are offline? And don't start with sockets. That will result in a nightmare. dbus is a clean solution to a huge problem. Apps have to talk to each other. The only way to keep it sane is a standardized IPC daemon like dbus. Well how about something with sockets ;) Personally, I don't see a big problem in a network connection manager not being able to tell various apps that they don't have a connection to the internet. If you're offline often you will know it, and if not you have something to look into. But honestly, I don't have a solution to the problem, what I can however say is that my browser and my mail app, are pretty deft at realizing that their attempts to access a server, are in vain, without any network manager to tell them that they're offline. If there is any inter-app communication going on, it's not anything I know enough about to give a qualified guess about. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:26 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:10:58 Zeerak Waseem wrote: But honestly, I don't have a solution to the problem, what I can however say is that my browser and my mail app, are pretty deft at realizing that their attempts to access a server, are in vain, without any network manager to tell them that they're offline. If there is any inter-app communication going on, it's not anything I know enough about to give a qualified guess about. So do this then: Build a desktop from old ebuilds and tarballs from a time when dbus was not prevalent. Make sure that the result is somewhat comparable to what you like to have now. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Then examine the code for all the major apps you have, find the IPC-type functionality they have and remove it. Rebuild everything. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Compare these two sets of numbers. Then run your new IPC-less machine. Let us know how that works out for you. At the very least you will gain an understanding of just how much IPC is going on even in minimal environments. Well, I'll have to tell you, that I might just do that one of these days, because like you say. If nothing else I'll gain an understanding of it. As you suggested in the last mail, I don't think I've considered all the different uses of IPC. :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:04:38 +0100, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/11/2010 01:35 PM, Zeerak Waseem wrote: It just seems silly that if you want to use the newest version of kate, kmail etc. that semantic-desktop is forced upon you, when you're not interested in having the entire DE. By the authority vested in me by My-Wife-the-Windows-User, I welcome you to the gentoo-users mail list. (I don't recall your name from previous months, but, nevermind.) I see that you've taken some heat in return for your opinions, but you've maintained a very civil and polite tone to your replies, and I admire you for that. Why thank you :-) On the other hand, may I politely suggest that, if you wish to use the latest version of kate (or any other software including software from M$) you must necessarily accept the decisions of the author of that software. How could it possibly be otherwise? Well it can't be otherwise, however I do enjoy complaining, well about certain things anyway. Personally I installed kde, and realized I had no idea what on earth was on my computer and why, so I removed it and moved to openbox, and don't use any kde specific apps. But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand. The Ultimate Solution is to develop your own software, of course, and be the next M$/Google/Whoever. Hey, I'm still working on it -- I'll get there, do-or-die! I just started a degree, to accomplish -something akin to- that ;-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:53:20 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:52:37 Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:31:26 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday 12 February 2010 01:10:58 Zeerak Waseem wrote: But honestly, I don't have a solution to the problem, what I can however say is that my browser and my mail app, are pretty deft at realizing that their attempts to access a server, are in vain, without any network manager to tell them that they're offline. If there is any inter-app communication going on, it's not anything I know enough about to give a qualified guess about. So do this then: Build a desktop from old ebuilds and tarballs from a time when dbus was not prevalent. Make sure that the result is somewhat comparable to what you like to have now. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Then examine the code for all the major apps you have, find the IPC-type functionality they have and remove it. Rebuild everything. Note the code sizes and other metrics of complexity. Note resource usage. Compare these two sets of numbers. Then run your new IPC-less machine. Let us know how that works out for you. At the very least you will gain an understanding of just how much IPC is going on even in minimal environments. Well, I'll have to tell you, that I might just do that one of these days, because like you say. If nothing else I'll gain an understanding of it. As you suggested in the last mail, I don't think I've considered all the different uses of IPC. :-) A lot of that was tongue in cheek :-) If you do manage to pull off that monumental purge and get something that runs, you'll have enough information to build a PhD thesis around. OK, maybe not a PhD. maybe a Masters. Hehe, it read :-) I'll be sure to remember that when I have to write my masters, quite possibly also about the same time I'll be done with the purge and getting it working ;) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:27:32 +0100, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal That's as much crippling as simplifying. You can do without pam and hal by setting appropriate USE flags (I run pam-free here by doing just that) but D-Bus provides a standard way for applications to communicate with one another and removing it can stop your desktop working as it should. Really? I removed dbus from my system altogether and everything seems to be communicating fine. And according to this (http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-810848-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html) a system should be able to communicate without dbus. And an easy way to be pam, dbus, and hal free is just setting the right USE flags. I'd say it's easier than to make a package.mask file, if you haven't created one. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] emerge older version
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 17:45:20 +0100, Laurent Kappler laur...@logiquefloue.org wrote: Hi, I'm tryin to emerge ImageMagick version 6.4.7.0 while current in portage is 6.5.7. How could I do that?? thanks Laurent add this to your package.mask: =media-gfx/imagemagick-6.4.7.1 and then emerge imagemagick again. :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:58:10 +0100, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties: On 2/9/2010 3:16 AM, Dale wrote: On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:17:08 -0500, Walter Dnes wrote: My solution to simplify Gentoo... waltd...@d531 ~ $ cat /etc/portage/package.mask sys-libs/pam sys-apps/dbus sys-apps/hal You'll have to do a manual depclean (very carefully) and revdep-rebuild, but it's worth the effort to purify your Gentoo system. Simpler than that, just add -hal to xorg stuff in package.use and then run emerge -uvDNa world. I'm not saying your way won't work but I think mine is easier. His way is also *way* more Luddite than yours. Note the 'pam' and 'dbus', two things basically standard (and very stable) on modern Linux desktop systems. --K I don't agree with the term Luddite here. It's not being against new things and new ways of doing things. He just doesn't need those things for his hardware to work properly. Me, I don't need hal for my mouse and keyboard to work. As a matter of fact, mine doesn't work WITH hal. I have to remove hal to get mine to work. So, hal may be progress to you but it is a step backward for me. It's the opposite of progress. Dale :-) :-) I think, that hal was a lot harder for a lot of us, than the good old xorg.conf. This may because we (linux user in general) are used to xorg.conf. For my personal experience, I hadn't been using linux for about 4 years, so I'd completely forgotten the xorg syntax, but that was still a more simple process to relearn the xorg.conf syntax, than understanding the hal configuration files. A project such as hal necessarily has contact with the user with an unusual (read: at least a non-us keyboard) setup. Therefore the syntax in which it is configured has to be easily (read: a quick google search/documentation search away) accessed by the users to whom it may be necessary. And I believe that this is the point where hal truly fails, other than cases like Dale's. The xorg.conf is simply a more simple, and easier configuration file than the various hal policies. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:18:54 +0100, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: On Wednesday 10 February 2010 01:02:50 Dale wrote: Oh I'm fine. Thank Goodness! Now to go watch NCIS. I won't ask what that is; I think I'd rather not know. NCIS = Naval Criminal Investigative Service. It's good ;) I am worried about the blood pressure though ;) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Problem configuring Intel Wireless 5300 device
On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:21:20 +0100, Shoka sh...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi folks, I got stuck when trying to get the Intel Wireless 5300 device running. I'm using the 2.6.31.gentoo-r6 kernel source and have tried several configuration options for getting this driver to work. The gentoo os is running on a lenovo x200 notebook. It seems that the iwlagn module doesn't get compiled at all. When trying to run modprobe iwlagn I get the message Module iwlagn not found. The device is properly recognized when using the Gentoo Live CD. There it uses the iwlagn module. So it should be possible to configure the kernel to do the same. I have found this forum post about configuring the 5300 device, but this guy used the 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 kernel source and it looks like the kernel config options in menuconfig have changed. I cannot find a kernel config option called Intel Wireless WiFi Next Gen AGN (iwlagn). Link to forum post: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-792424-highlight-5300.html I'm a gentoo newbie and therefore would be very glad, if anyone could give me an advice in the right direction. Thank you very much! Best regards Shoka You should be able to find the iwlagn in Device Drivers - Network Device Support - Wireless Lan There you need to set Intel Wireless Wifi and then the option should appear :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Problem configuring Intel Wireless 5300 device
On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 20:55:00 +0100, Shoka sh...@gmx.ch wrote: On 07.02.2010 20:29, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:21:20 +0100, Shoka sh...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi folks, I got stuck when trying to get the Intel Wireless 5300 device running. I'm using the 2.6.31.gentoo-r6 kernel source and have tried several configuration options for getting this driver to work. The gentoo os is running on a lenovo x200 notebook. It seems that the iwlagn module doesn't get compiled at all. When trying to run modprobe iwlagn I get the message Module iwlagn not found. The device is properly recognized when using the Gentoo Live CD. There it uses the iwlagn module. So it should be possible to configure the kernel to do the same. I have found this forum post about configuring the 5300 device, but this guy used the 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 kernel source and it looks like the kernel config options in menuconfig have changed. I cannot find a kernel config option called Intel Wireless WiFi Next Gen AGN (iwlagn). Link to forum post: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-792424-highlight-5300.html I'm a gentoo newbie and therefore would be very glad, if anyone could give me an advice in the right direction. Thank you very much! Best regards Shoka You should be able to find the iwlagn in Device Drivers - Network Device Support - Wireless Lan There you need to set Intel Wireless Wifi and then the option should appear :-) Hi Zeerak, When calling make menuconfig, then enter section Device Drivers -- Network Device Support -- Wireless LAN, all I can see are these options: [ ] Wireless LAN (pre-802.11) [ ] Wireless LAN (IEEE 802.11) Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Connection Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG and 2915ABG Network Connection I have selected both Intel PRO/Wireless sections and the only sup-options that appeared were: [ ] promiscuous mode [ ] full debugging output But there was nothing written about Intel Wireless Wifi or iwlagn stuff Even if I checked all the options nothing more appeared. Shoka What does searching for iwlwifi in the kernel yield? (kernel search is prompted by /) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] strange error when doing emerge @preserved-rebuild
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 20:41:54 +0100, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. When I am trying to do an emerge @preserved-rebuild after an upgrade, I just get the following: These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy kde-base/arts:3.5. I tried a -t, but it didn't give me anything. How can I tell what is happening here? Thanks in advance for any ideas. I'm guessing it has something to do with kde 3.5 being removed from portage. Do you have the sunset overlay added? If not then it would be necessary as all of kde 3.5 is going to disappear very soon (if it hasn't already as emerge seems to be telling you). -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] strange error when doing emerge @preserved-rebuild
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:42:05 +0100, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: However, I do not have any kde packages that I know of -- I wonder what is pulling that in. I certainly do not have arts. Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010 21:41:54 cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. When I am trying to do an emerge @preserved-rebuild after an upgrade, I just get the following: These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order: Calculating dependencies... done! emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy kde-base/arts:3.5. I tried a -t, but it didn't give me anything. How can I tell what is happening here? This has been well documented and well discussed here there and everywhere. Gentoo has dropped all kde-3.5 packages from portage. They are now in the kde- sunset overlay, you need layman to access them. That error proves you do not have the overlay enabled. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com Perhaps equery belongs arts could help? -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] strange error when doing emerge @preserved-rebuild
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:37:55 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010 22:45:09 Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:42:05 +0100, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: However, I do not have any kde packages that I know of -- I wonder what is pulling that in. I certainly do not have arts. [snip] Perhaps equery belongs arts could help? You mean equery depends -a arts Whoops, yeah sorry about that one :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] A quick test of su
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:13:55 +0100, Allan Gottlieb gottl...@nyu.edu wrote: At Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:07:21 -0800 walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: Can I trouble you folks to do this ten-second test and report your results? As an ordinary user, type 'su' at a bash prompt. Now, where you would normally type your root password, just type Ctrl-d instead. What do you see? (I'm ruling out evil spirits here, so please bear with me ;) Thanks for your help. Looks good here. allan gottl...@allan ~ $ su Password: su: Authentication information cannot be recovered gottl...@allan ~ $ Same here :-) zee...@zeerak /home/zeerak $ su Password: su: Authentication information cannot be recovered -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Fluxbox not starting after login with SLIM
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 21:42:15 +0100, Marco listwo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I updated my system and beside others, Xorg got updated. Now, when I log in with SLIM, fluxbox does not start anymore. I just get into an ugly x-session. In my ~/.xinitrc I have exec startfluxbox which always got me into fluxbox after log in with SLIM. This is according to http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/fluxbox-config.xml Killing X and then startx as user (non-root) I get into fluxbox... Thanks in advance for your tips! -- Regards, Marco Hey, Try checking for a .xinitrc (if you're using that) in your user home dir. I had the same issue and i had only corrected the .xinitrc for root :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] eth0 failure
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:32:01 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 07 January 2010 15:17:05 GerhardosG wrote: Hi , on my gentoo-Laptopwith AMD - K8 the network is NOT running : ifconfig eth0 down ifconfig eth0 up Disabling IRQ #5 Why ? sigh Yea gods, not another one. How on this earth can you expect people to help you if you do not provide information. We have no idea what machine you have, what network card, what errors are taking place, what modules, what kernel or anything else that's important to help you, because you did not say. My initial opinion as to why your network does not work is that your card is physically fucked. Feel free to disagree and prove me wrong by means of: - relevant dmesg output - relevant /var/log/messages output - relevant lspci output - relevant lsmod output - relevant uname -a output - relevant kernel configuration output - relevant verbose output on the shell when starting the interface - anything else relevant You might also want to add /etc/conf.d/net to the list of things to look through. OT: I had the same reaction Alan, i had just finished reading the other one who provided no information. It really is dumbfounding. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] sys-power/powermgmt-base blocks sys-power/pm-utils, but it's not installed yet
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 14:55:51 +0100, Michael Sullivan
msulli1...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 09:47 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
On Thursday 07 January 2010 05:35:39 Michael Sullivan wrote:
On Wed, 2010-01-06 at 22:23 +0100, Renat Golubchyk wrote:
Hi!
On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 07:49:05 -0600
Michael Sullivan msulli1...@gmail.com wrote:
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'sys-power/powermgmt-base-1.22', 'merge')
pulled in
by
=sys-power/powermgmt-base-1.22 required by ('ebuild', '/',
'sys-apps/apmd-3.2.2_p5', 'merge')
('ebuild', '/', 'sys-power/pm-utils-1.2.5', 'merge') pulled in
by
sys-power/pm-utils required by ('installed', '/',
'kde-base/powerdevil-4.3.3', 'nomerge')
According to the error message sys-power/powermgmt-base is getting
pulled by sys-apps/apmd and sys-power/pm-utils by
kde-base/powerdevil.
If you use ACPI then there is probably no need in having APM daemon
installed. Add -t to your emerge command and check what package
depends
on apmd.
Cheers,
Renat
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-2.26.3 USE=cdr cups dvdr
-accessibility -esd -ldap -mono
[nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-applets-2.26.3 USE=acpi apm gnome
gstreamer hal ipv6 -debug -doc -policykit
USE=-apm
If you have acpi you do not need to use apm. Unless you have weird
hardware.
catherine ~ # USE=-apm emerge -pvuDt world
These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
[nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-2.26.3 USE=cdr cups dvdr
-accessibility -esd -ldap -mono
[nomerge ] gnome-base/gnome-applets-2.26.3 USE=acpi apm gnome
gstreamer hal ipv6 -debug -doc -policykit
[ebuild N] sys-apps/apmd-3.2.2_p5 USE=X nls 0 kB
[nomerge ] games-emulation/dosbox-0.73 USE=alsa opengl -debug
-hardened
[nomerge ] media-libs/sdl-sound-1.0.3 USE=flac mikmod mp3 mpeg
vorbis -physfs -speex
[ebuild U ] media-libs/libmikmod-3.2.0_beta2-r1 [3.1.11-r5]
USE=oss (-alsa%*) (-esd%) 744 kB
[nomerge ] kde-base/kde-meta-4.3.3 USE=nls -accessibility
(-kdeprefix)
[nomerge ] kde-base/kdebase-meta-4.3.3 USE=semantic-desktop
(-kdeprefix) -policykit
[nomerge ] kde-base/powerdevil-4.3.3 USE=pm-utils (-aqua)
-debug (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix)
[ebuild N]sys-power/pm-utils-1.2.5 USE=alsa -debug
-networkmanager -ntp VIDEO_CARDS=-intel -radeon 0 kB
[nomerge ] sys-apps/apmd-3.2.2_p5 USE=X nls
[ebuild N] sys-power/powermgmt-base-1.22 0 kB
[blocks B ] sys-power/powermgmt-base (sys-power/powermgmt-base is
blocking sys-power/pm-utils-1.2.5)
Total: 4 packages (1 upgrade, 3 new), Size of downloads: 744 kB
Conflict: 1 block (1 unsatisfied)
* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.
('ebuild', '/', 'sys-power/powermgmt-base-1.22', 'merge') pulled in by
=sys-power/powermgmt-base-1.22 required by ('ebuild', '/',
'sys-apps/apmd-3.2.2_p5', 'merge')
('ebuild', '/', 'sys-power/pm-utils-1.2.5', 'merge') pulled in by
sys-power/pm-utils required by ('installed', '/',
'kde-base/powerdevil-4.3.3', 'nomerge')
For more information about Blocked Packages, please refer to the
following
section of the Gentoo Linux x86 Handbook (architecture is irrelevant):
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?full=1#blocked
* IMPORTANT: 3 news items need reading for repository 'gentoo'.
* Use eselect news to read news items.
catherine ~ #
If the package pulling in powermgmt-base isn't necessary for anything you
know of then add it to package.mask
--
Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] New application: app-portage/kportagetray
On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:55:47 +0100, Ronan Arraes Jardim Chagas roni...@gmail.com wrote: Hello James, That is my goal at the future. Let it be each day more integrated with emerge and its tools. By now, I just want to see if gentoo community has interest in my idea before search for some place to host it and put the ebuild at an overlay. And you are right, I do not recommend for non-experience users to be using this kind of software. Regards, Well, if it wasn't depending on various kde applications and libraries, I definitely think there's a fairly big market for this... I certainly would be more than glad to use it :-) -- Zeerak
[gentoo-user] Understanding sets
Hey guys, I have some questions about sets: 1) Sets are just files with one package per line in /usr/portage/sets, right? 2) Can a set be included in the world file? 3) With set files in /usr/portage/sets and running emerge -u @foo portage yields that @foo isn't a valid package atom, any idea why this is? Thanks for any help :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Understanding sets
On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:41:35 +0100, Alex Schuster wo...@wonkology.org wrote: Zeerak Waseem writes: I have some questions about sets: 1) Sets are just files with one package per line in /usr/portage/sets, right? I think it's /etc/portage/sets instead. And there are also meta-sets like system, world, module-rebuild, preserved-rebuild and more, defined in /usr/share/portage/config/sets.conf. There is a little documentation in the emerge man page, but I have no idea where else sets are documented. 2) Can a set be included in the world file? I don't think so, sets go into /var/lib/portage/world_sets. 3) With set files in /usr/portage/sets and running emerge -u @foo portage yields that @foo isn't a valid package atom, any idea why this is? Your portage is too old? In case of an error, you should get an emerge: There are no sets to satisfy 'foo' message, and a list of known sets. Wonko Ah well, having the sets in the wrong place would give me an error. And regarding portage version, weren't sets included in v. 2.x.x? My portage version is 2.1.7.16, anything above seems to be hardmasked... -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] subclipse???
The eix-remote -q update command should take care of that. Try running it and searching for something that you know isn't in one of the overlays that you use :-) On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:58:44 +0100, Mark Knecht markkne...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:44 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 30 December 2009 12:27:12 Neil Bothwick wrote: snip I think he wants to know what overlay a given ebuild is in without installing the overlay first eix wwon't show the contents of not-installed overlays Yes, thanks Alan. That is what I was asking. I guess I should have posted that eix subsclipse showed nothing on my machines: dragonfly ~ # eix subclipse No matches found. dragonfly ~ # After adding the trauma overlay with layman now I see it: dragonfly ~ # layman -l * trauma[Subversion] (http://svn.digital-trauma.de/gentoo/trunk/ ) dragonfly ~ # eix subclipse * dev-util/eclipse-subclipse-bin [1] Available versions: 1.1.9!s 1.2.0!s Homepage:http://subclipse.tigris.org/ Description: Subversion support for Eclipse (binary) [1] digital-trauma.de /usr/local/portage/layman/trauma dragonfly ~ # but how do I determine that it's in trauma in the first place? This came up the other day where Grant was asking about rt-sources and I was able to answer because I use it and knew which overlay to tell him to add, but then I hit the wall myself and didn't know how to figure this out short of adding all overlays which seemed silly. I had hoped that layman would have a way to search non-installed overlays but I didn't find that so I asked here. And thanks to Neil who at least told me what overlay had a binary version. Unfortunately it appears it an older version of subclipse that's not intended for use with eclipse-3.5. Thanks, Mark
Re: [gentoo-user] does slim work with xorg-server1.7.3?
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:45:20 +0100, fei huang daniel.huang...@gmail.com wrote: I've found the slim login manager will hang the computer if I enter exit or console in the panel, blank screen and no response at all, had to push the reset button to recover. I did not test it under the previous xorg-server installation, anybody has got the same issue? I've tried to recompile slim but no help slim 1.3.1 + xorg-server 1.7.3 (with xcb enabled) + awesome3.4.2 thanks fei Hey Fei, I don't have those issues. I'm using slim 1.3.1-r4 and xorg-server 1.7.3.901-r1. Are you using the same packages? If not then try upgrading, perhaps that will help :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Xorg-server fails to compile
On my system I have libXtst-1.1.0 installed but I'm running with xextproto-7.1.1 try unmasking xextproto and see if that helps. On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:27:11 +0100, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: walt w41...@gmail.com [09-12-14 01:08]: On 12/13/2009 10:03 AM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, emerge of xorg-server-1.6.5-r1 fails while in the build process. Logfile's contents is: /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:40: error: expected ')' before '*' token /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:41: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSGetVersion' /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:42: error: expected ')' before '*' token /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:43: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSSetTimeouts' /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:44: error: expected ')' before '*' token /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:45: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSEnable' /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:46: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSDisable' /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:47: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSForceLevel' /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h:48: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'DPMSInfo' That file (dpms.h) is installed by x11-proto/xextproto-7.0.5. Do you have that version? I would re-emerge that package even if it look correct. Emerge refuses to merge that: * This package will overwrite one or more files that may belong to other * packages (see list below). You can use a command such as `portageq * owners / filename` to identify the installed package that owns a * file. If portageq reports that only one package owns a file then do * NOT file a bug report. A bug report is only useful if it identifies at * least two or more packages that are known to install the same file(s). * If a collision occurs and you can not explain where the file came from * then you should simply ignore the collision since there is not enough * information to determine if a real problem exists. Please do NOT file * a bug report at http://bugs.gentoo.org unless you report exactly which * two packages install the same file(s). Once again, please do NOT file * a bug report unless you have completely understood the above message. * * Detected file collision(s): * * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbxbuf.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xag.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xge.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbxbufstr.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XEVI.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/multibuf.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/shape.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XLbx.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XShm.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xdbe.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xcup.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xext.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/MITMisc.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/security.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/xtestext1.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/sync.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbximage.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/extutil.h * * Searching all installed packages for file collisions... * * Press Ctrl-C to Stop * * x11-libs/libXext-1.1.1 * /usr/include/X11/extensions/MITMisc.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XEVI.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XLbx.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XShm.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xag.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xcup.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xdbe.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xext.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/Xge.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/dpms.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/extutil.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbxbuf.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbxbufstr.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/lbximage.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/multibuf.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/security.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/shape.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/sync.h * /usr/include/X11/extensions/xtestext1.h * * x11-libs/libXtst-1.1.0 * /usr/include/X11/extensions/XTest.h * * Package 'x11-proto/xextproto-7.0.5' NOT merged due to file collisions. * If necessary, refer to your elog messages for the whole content of the * above message. but interestingly portageq owners / xextproto reports None of the installed packages claim the file(s). How can I proceed ? -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Invitation from Mohamed Hagag
Well, I assumed the same thing, but if we all assume that someone else is doing it... I just tried and it is done :-) Zeerak On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:20:08 +0100, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Mohamed Hagag wrote: You received this e-mail because someone you know thought you may find this website interesting. If you no longer wish to receive any e-mails from us, please go to http://www.resumark.com/block.html?env=donotinvite---OnBlock-email=gentoo-u...@lists.gentoo.org http://www.resumark.com/block.html?env=donotinvite---OnBlock-email=gentoo-u...@lists.gentoo.org Should I assume that there is someone else getting this that can unsubscribe these folks? Maybe ban them for future reference. Dale :-) :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Which LiveCD for Intel Core2 Duo?
Well, if you wantto install a 64bit env. then you have to use the AMD64 livecd. IA64 isn't the 64bit architecture :-) Zeerak On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:00:22 +0100, Erik esi...@gmail.com wrote: I will install Gentoo Linux on a Dell laptop with Intel Core2 Dua and 8GiB RAM. I tried 2 different LiveCDs. x86 boots fine, but does not seem to find all memory. IA64 does not boot. Are there hidden versions like x86_64?
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: threads in thunderbird (WAS:decrapify your kernel config)
Nope, but if there isn't a particular reason for using thunderbird (ie. some function unlikely to be found in other clients). But opera webbrowser comes with an email client built into it, and if you use a panel view, well you'll get a nice little tree called mailing lists :-) So if switching browser is an option, then there's a cause :-) Zeerak On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:01:09 +0100, Stefan G. Weichinger li...@xunil.at wrote: Stefan G. Weichinger schrieb: whoops. I hadn't looked back at that thread for weeks, only found it now. Does anyone know of a helpful addon for thunderbird which allows to simply follow threads on mailinglists? I always think of the possibility to somehow bookmark a thread and to be able to quickcheck all these threads for replies, without the need of scrolling through miles of other postings (yep, I already sort mails into folders and use the threaded view). Maybe someone knows more than me (many do ...) Stefan
Re: [gentoo-user] Wireless...
This is my etc/conf.d/net file: modules=( wpa_supplicant ) wpa_supplicant_wlan0=-Dwext preferred_aps=(ESSID1 ESSID2) essid_wlan0=any All specific stuff is in /wpa_supplicant/supplicant.conf Zeerak On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:17:15 +0100, BRM bm_witn...@yahoo.com wrote: I have wireless working (b43legacy driver for the Dell Wireless Broadcom) through a static configuration in /etc/conf.d/net - basically: essid_wlan0=myWLAN key_MYWLAN=somekey config_MYWLAN=( dhcp ) preferred_APS= ( myWLAN ) I would like to use a tool like WPA Supplicant instead so I can have a more dynamic configuration. I've tried to setup WPA supplicant but haven't been able to get it to work. My last attempt was with: modules=( wpa_supplicant ) wpa_supplicant_wlan0=-Dwext wpa_timeout_wlan0=15 I also tried the iwconfig setup: modules=( iwconfig ) iwconfig_wlan0=mode managed wpa_timeout_wlan0=15 Both these were based on configurations I found while researching gentoo wireless configurations: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Wireless_Networking the wpa_supplicant man page possibly suggests uses -Dbroadcom, but the following supports -Dwext since I have the b43legacy driver working (firmware extracted using b43-fwcutter a while back; dmesg reports version 0x127). http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43 I have both the iwconfig utilities and wpa supplicant installed. When I used wpa supplicant with either configuration it would just keep searching. Now, my wireless configuration is currently WEP; and I'd like to upgrade to WPA/WPA2 once I can get a wireless tool on the system as well. Is there anything I'm doing wrong with the configuration above? Also - what is the correct GUI for configuring connections under KDE4? I know of the WPA Supplicant GUI; and the GNOME GUI; but would like something under more directly KDE4. KNemo just puts up monitors that are pretty useless (though look pretty). TIA, Ben P.S. It seems my Linksys WRT54G v3 needs a firmware update for WPA2. So right now, I'd just like to be able to configure dynamically for my WEP network; then I'll focus on going to WPA/WPA2. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: [gentoo-user] gcc 4.2.4 fails to build
if you're using an intel core2 processor, the proper -march setting is -march=nocona On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:26:28 +0100, Roger Mason rma...@mun.ca wrote: Hello, I need to build gcc 4.2 on a core 2 duo system. The only 4.2.x version is 4.2.4, which is masked by ~. When I try to build it fails: ... /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.2.4-r1/work/build/./gcc/xgcc -B/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.2.4-r1/work/build/./gcc/ -B/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ -B/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/lib/ -isystem /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/include -isystem /usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/sys-include -O2 -O2 -O2 -march=core2 -pipe -DIN_GCC-W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wold-style-definition -isystem ./include -fPIC -g -DHAVE_GTHR_DEFAULT -DIN_LIBGCC2 -D__GCC_FLOAT_NOT_NEEDED -msse -c \ /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.2.4-r1/work/gcc-4.2.4/gcc/config/i386/crtfastmath.c \ -o crtfastmath.o /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.2.4-r1/work/gcc-4.2.4/gcc/config/i386/crtfastmath.c:1: error: bad value (core2) for -march= switch /var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gcc-4.2.4-r1/work/gcc-4.2.4/gcc/config/i386/crtfastmath.c:1: error: bad value (core2) for -mtune= switch I do indeed have -march=core2 in /etc/make.conf. I suppose I could change -march= to something else and try again - but what should I change it to? gcc-4.2.4 would only be used for non-portage compiling so, am I right in thinking that after it is built it would be safe to revert to -march=core2? Thanks, Roger
[gentoo-user] Keyboard not working as user, works as root (kde)
Hey, I did an update lat night and my keyboard stopped working. What makes me wonder though is that if x starts on it's own then i can type my password and i get in, and then the keyboard stops working. If i change to another tty and start x as root, there are no such issues (also starting x as user from tty doesn't do anything about the keyboard not working). These are the packages the update pulled in: x11-libs/libX11-1.3.2 11-libs/libvdpau-0.3 app-admin/eselect-1.2.8 www-client/opera-10.10_pre4742 I tried downgrading to a stable build of libX11 but that didn't seem to change anything. I'm using a laptop and don't have an extern keyboard at hand to test. What does more to boggle me is that the touchpad is functioning as it should. Help? --- Zeerak
[gentoo-user] Keyboard not working as user, works as root (kde)
Hey, I did an update lat night and my keyboard stopped working. What makes me wonder though is that if x starts on it's own then i can type my password and i get in, and then the keyboard stops working. If i change to another tty and start x as root, there are no such issues (also starting x as user from tty doesn't do anything about the keyboard not working). These are the packages the update pulled in: x11-libs/libX11-1.3.2 11-libs/libvdpau-0.3 app-admin/eselect-1.2.8 www-client/opera-10.10_pre4742 I tried downgrading to a stable build of libX11 but that didn't seem to change anything. I'm using a laptop and don't have an extern keyboard at hand to test. What does more to boggle me is that the touchpad is functioning as it should. Help? --- Zeerak Ps. I sent a mail out, however I'm not certain if i did it correctly, hence this mail.
Re: [gentoo-user] Keyboard not working as user, works as root (kde)
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:04:17 +0100, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday 22 November 2009 22:26:36 Zeerak Waseem wrote: Hey, I did an update lat night and my keyboard stopped working. What makes me wonder though is that if x starts on it's own then i can type my password and i get in, and then the keyboard stops working. If i change to another tty and start x as root, there are no such issues (also starting x as user from tty doesn't do anything about the keyboard not working). These are the packages the update pulled in: x11-libs/libX11-1.3.2 11-libs/libvdpau-0.3 app-admin/eselect-1.2.8 www-client/opera-10.10_pre4742 I tried downgrading to a stable build of libX11 but that didn't seem to change anything. I'm using a laptop and don't have an extern keyboard at hand to test. What does more to boggle me is that the touchpad is functioning as it should. Do you have consolekit in USE? If so, is it configured properly? There's an elog about it, it displays when you emerge the relevant X package I do have consolekit as a useflag (default on profile it seems), but I'm not sure where to configure it, and what will a working configuration look like? (and thanks for the confirmation Dale :-) ) -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: [gentoo-user] Unable to set up wireless lan - followed documentation
On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:25:13 +0100, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On 14 Nov 2009, at 17:55, Nelis Botha wrote: ... I need some help. I am trying to set up my wireless lan on gentoo. I have recompiled kernel. Every attempt at configuring /etc/conf.d/net end in faed to configure wireless for wlan0 i have folowed the advice given when it fails and give info/advice to resolve but nothing has worked thus far. My question then is : what should the /etc/conf.d/net look like if I want to connect to dhcp enabled adsl router that does not need authenticating ? Hi there, Could you start by telling us which make model of wireless card you're using, please? Do you have the right drivers compiled into the kernel for it, or as modules? Please post the output of `lspci` / `lsusb` as appropriate, of `lsmod` and `iwconfig`. Stroller. Also, did you try setting up wpa_supplicant or with wireless-tools? -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Block root user from login on xorg GUI
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:08:18 +0100, Iain Buchanan iai...@netspace.net.au wrote: However, if someone has the root password to log in to X, then what's to stop them changing anything you do now? I've been wondering about the very same thing... Perhaps it's just to only have a root shell and not an entire DE running as root. That's my only (read: only useful) suggestion as to why. Because like you Iain, if someone has the password, they could just undo the changes :-) -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: decrapify your kernel config WAS: ps shows pegasus process running - what is it?
On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:02:34 +0100, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: On Monday 09 November 2009 00:20:45 Dale wrote: What he said plus this little tidbit of info. When I built my first kernel, I had no howto except for the basic instructions in the Gentoo install guide. This was about 6 years or so ago and there was not a lot on configuring a kernel except for the options Gentoo needed. It took me three tries to get one to boot and work pretty well and all of a hour at most. A lot of that hour was compiling the kernel. Three tries Dale? Only three? You deserve a medal for that. My first attempt took at least 10 goes ;-) I didn't say it was perfect, I said it booted and worked pretty well. Now getting the sensors, USB and some other odds and ends took a few more. Once I got booted tho, I was ginning pretty good. You also have to keep in mind, my system is not real complicated. Basically, chipset, file system, and sound card to start with. USB was the fun one. I have to have one USB driver for my printer and another for my camera. One is the old style USB 1 and the other is USB 2 or something to that effect. Point to the OP tho, once I had a good running kernel, make oldconfig worked for years. I did have to build one from scratch a year or so because things changed drastically and oldconfig got confused. So basically, I have had to build from scratch twice in the last 5 or 6 years. I think that shows oldconfig works pretty good. I do find this funny tho. Someone spends the better part of a day installing Gentoo but doesn't think building their own kernel is worth it. Most compiles take longer to finish than configing a kernel. Dale :-) :-) I can only speak for myself, but part of what makes the gentoo experience for me is knowing that my kernel, software etc. is built to my basic needs. And building and configuring a kernel really doesn't take as much time as you might spend on various unnecessary pursuits (ie. reading webcomics, articles that can wait, reading the news that'll be broadcasted to you later through a tv-news programme). But as others have said, if you're not interested in spending time on making it tick, and just want an easy fix, then go for a binary distro. Of course, if you decide to read the book, well then, there's the off chance that you might just find it interesting and read it, not because it can be useful, but because it sparks your interest. And no, configuring a kernel from scratch doesn't (take me) 5 minutes, but the half hour it does take, are well spent. -- Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: New KDE4 option: night of the week for strip club attendance WTF?
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:19:16 +0100, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: On 11/04/2009 02:45 PM, Erik wrote: With KDE4 I suddenly have bloody sexist stuff on my desktop!!! When I configure country/region and language, there is an option for Night of the week for strip club attendance: I would report that to the KDE development list. It look like a translator was trying to be funny. Those pesky translators! I'd say they managed to be just a little funny :-) Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: New KDE4 option: night of the week for strip club attendance WTF?
A guess would be it puts a reminder for a weekly occurrence, like going to the strip club! ;-) But of course, you are right, in the end :-) Zeerak On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:55:46 +0100, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: On 11/04/2009 06:24 PM, Zeerak Waseem wrote: On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:19:16 +0100, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: snip Those pesky translators! I'd say they managed to be just a little funny :-) I find it funny too, but the problem is that the user has no idea what the option actually does then.
Re: [gentoo-user] New KDE4 option: night of the week for strip club attendance WTF?
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:15:52 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mittwoch 04 November 2009, Erik wrote: Stroller skrev: On 4 Nov 2009, at 13:22, Neil Bothwick wrote: ... There are four options here, first day of week, first working day of week, last working day of week and day of the week for religious observance. It would appear your locale uses a different translation! I am torn as whether to find this funny or improper. Only when I know what it's supposed to say I really like the joke that both are equally important. Why indeed give religious observance a higher priority?!?! I have encountered arguments like this: Yes, there's a setting for that in the country/region settings module but if you're not interested in it, it won't bother you. If you are, you can have kontact or the calendar plasmoid show those days as special. That's it. Sounds unproblematic to me. My point is of course that in my desktop environment, I do not want an option for either strip club attendance, religious observance, or anything else that someone else might want to do once a week. I would prefer to keep the desktop environment neutral (secular) by default. If there is indeed a need for such an option to make sundays red in the calendar, it would be more proper to call it sometning more neutral, like Weekly holiday, Ceremonial weekday or Special weekday. The user can then let that mean lap dance, prayer, family dinner, hiking, hacking or whatever he may be interested in. Yes, I know that holiday sounds like holy day, but it still feels broader than relious observance. According to wikipedia, a holiday can mean among other things official or unofficial observances of religious, national, or cultural significance. So the phrase Weekly holiday covers the current meaning of the KDE option, but is meaningful even to secular people. Therefore changing the phrase would make KDE usage more acceptable in secular countries and by secular people. sounds like PC crap. Sundays are marked special, because most people don't have to work. Shops are closed and stuff like that. There is no need to bring in religion. Well there really is. God rested on the seventh day, and therefore no labor was tolerated on the seventh day of the week, Sunday. People not working on Sundays, is traditionally to make time for going to church, but in a society without God, it has been kept because it's nice to have a set day off, every week. And in societies that aren't Christian the Sunday free day has been kept for either the resting day of God, or because of that being the standard around the world. So really, there's every need to bring in religion into the consideration, if one was to make a serious consideration of how this might be acceptable to everyone. Zeerak
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+Alt+bksp in Xorg
try adding this to your xorg.conf: Section Serverflags Option DontZapFalse EndSection On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:45:07 +0100, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: I have been trying to get this to work for some time now. I have followed this upgrade guide and modified my /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-xinput-configuration.fdi to include merge key=input.xkb.options type=stringterminate:ctrl_alt_bksp/merge This didn't work, so I looked further and found out that the input.xkb.options is deprecated and instead I should use: merge key=input.x11_options.XkbOptions type=stringterminate:ctrl_alt_bksp/merge as detailed in here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/tree/config/x11-input.fdi Anyway, neither will work. Is there any other syntax I should try, or is perhaps 10-xinput-configuration.fdi the wrong file for this? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
