Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[David Haller]

Hello,

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side of 
>the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.

Doesn't your WM has a stay-on-top feature? And WMaker has an option
not to use the Dock/Icons when maximizing, so if gkrellm is slim
enough ...

>I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
>(Or if there is, where do I set it)

Start 2 or more gkrellm-instances with different configs, e.g. one
just for the CPU and one for the rest:

gkrellm --config cpu &
gkrellm --config main &

will give you 2 gkrellms, one configured with ~/.gkrellm2/*-cpu
and the other with  ~/.gkrellm2/*-main

E.g.:
~/.gkrellm2 (0)$ gkrellm --config aux &
[doing some configuring for show]
~/.gkrellm2 (0)$ ls -d *-aux
data-aux   plugin_placement-aux  theme_config-aux
plugin_enable-aux  sensor-config-aux user-config-aux

HTH,
-dnh

-- 
printk(" Speed now 1x");/* Pull my finger! */
linux-2.6.6/drivers/cdrom/mcd.c

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Daniel Campbell]

On 12/29/2016 11:18 PM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>
>>> As for the specs:
>>>
>>> - 8 core CPU: nice
>>
>> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
>> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
>> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
>> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.
> 
> I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side of 
> the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
> I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
> (Or if there is, where do I set it)
> 
> [snip]
> 
> --
> Joost
> 

If you're using Fluxbox, the 'slit' USE flag will allow for a sort of
"dock" you can put programs into 'dockapp' mode. I believe gkrellm can
be made to fit into the slit, which you can configure in a number of
ways. If gkrellm can send its own hints to the WM, that's probably
better though.
-- 
Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C  1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[lee]

"taii...@gmx.com"  writes:

> On 12/30/2016 11:43 AM, lee wrote:
>
>> "taii...@gmx.com"  writes:
>>
>>> On 12/30/2016 08:39 AM, lee wrote:
>>>
 the...@sys-concept.com writes:

> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
>>> [...]
 If you want a rock solid machine with lots of cores and RAM and very
 capable of powering VMs, the HP Z800 is worthwhile to check out.
>>> [...]
>>> You can build a system with a (new) KGPE-D16, two used 6276 processors
>>> and used 64gb ecc ram for only around $500 which will net you a 32
>>> core computer that can run blob free no microcode coreboot that
>>> supports max 256GB RDIMM RAM.
>> Including an excellent 850W power supply, a good case, SAS RAID
>> controller and a graphics card?
>>
>> The 6276 is a more power hungry than a Xeon and runs at only 2.3GHz
>> (though I don't know how that compares to the Xeon).  Power consumption
>> is an issue for me because electricity is way too expensive here.
>>
>> Asus doesn't seem to say anything about coreboot?
>>
>>> There is another coreboot compatible (theoretically, but not tested)
>>> QP max 1TB (jesus christ) RDIMM RAM G34 motherboard, so you could have
>>> 64 cores for only $20 or so per 16 cores. (plus the $30 for a cpu
>>> cooler)
>> It's good to have so many options to choose from :)  Considering all
>> this, is there a good reason to go for an FX-8350?
>>
> Ahh good point, I was assuming he already had a case like I did. I

It's on the list ...  When you add it up, you pay about the same for a
Z800 with 64GB, more when you account for your work of putting the parts
together.

> have a single 6274 plus graphics card with a *quality* 500watt PSU and
> it works fine at full load.
> 6 cores vs 16 cores and coreboot with zero blobs or microcode, IMO the
> power consumption is greatly worth it.

Well, the FX-8350 is probably not exactly a power-saving CPU, either, so
what would count is the difference.

> Asus didn't implement coreboot on the kgpe-d16 (asus sucks), it was

Yeah, I say that too ever since I had an Asus board with a fan on it
that started making noise after a short time, and it wasn't possible to
update the BIOS, either, because that required windoze.  I won't buy
Asus anymore since then.

> done by the firmware heroes at raptor engineering.
>
> 6276 actually runs at 2.6ghz with turbo assuming you have proper
> cooling, and 8 cores can turbo to 3.2ghz if the other 8 are in CC6.
>
>
> If you care about linux you will care about free firmware, if we do
> not care one day microsoft will simply flip a switch and shut us out
> for good ("secure" boot 2.0 spec does not mandate the option to
> disable it)

The problem is getting a board with coreboot.  I definitely don't want
an UEFI board, and so far I got away with not having any, but what
choice do you really have?

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 12/30/2016 11:43 AM, lee wrote:


"taii...@gmx.com"  writes:


On 12/30/2016 08:39 AM, lee wrote:


the...@sys-concept.com writes:


I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,

[...]

If you want a rock solid machine with lots of cores and RAM and very
capable of powering VMs, the HP Z800 is worthwhile to check out.

[...]
You can build a system with a (new) KGPE-D16, two used 6276 processors
and used 64gb ecc ram for only around $500 which will net you a 32
core computer that can run blob free no microcode coreboot that
supports max 256GB RDIMM RAM.

Including an excellent 850W power supply, a good case, SAS RAID
controller and a graphics card?

The 6276 is a more power hungry than a Xeon and runs at only 2.3GHz
(though I don't know how that compares to the Xeon).  Power consumption
is an issue for me because electricity is way too expensive here.

Asus doesn't seem to say anything about coreboot?


There is another coreboot compatible (theoretically, but not tested)
QP max 1TB (jesus christ) RDIMM RAM G34 motherboard, so you could have
64 cores for only $20 or so per 16 cores. (plus the $30 for a cpu
cooler)

It's good to have so many options to choose from :)  Considering all
this, is there a good reason to go for an FX-8350?

Ahh good point, I was assuming he already had a case like I did. I have 
a single 6274 plus graphics card with a *quality* 500watt PSU and it 
works fine at full load.
6 cores vs 16 cores and coreboot with zero blobs or microcode, IMO the 
power consumption is greatly worth it.


Asus didn't implement coreboot on the kgpe-d16 (asus sucks), it was done 
by the firmware heroes at raptor engineering.


6276 actually runs at 2.6ghz with turbo assuming you have proper 
cooling, and 8 cores can turbo to 3.2ghz if the other 8 are in CC6.



If you care about linux you will care about free firmware, if we do not 
care one day microsoft will simply flip a switch and shut us out for 
good ("secure" boot 2.0 spec does not mandate the option to disable it)

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Friday, December 30, 2016 01:57:53 AM Dale wrote:
>>
>> My settings:
>>
>> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--with-bdeps y --backtrack=100 --keep-going -v -j8
>> --quiet-build=n -1"
>>
>> I forgot I had that set to 8 jobs.  Wonder why I did that?  Given your
>> experience, I want to get more ram and more cores.
> More RAM, yes. More cores aren't always necessary.
> With regards to your options, the " --load-average  " setting is 
> important 
> to keep the system responsive.
>
> With mine, it is possible to have 12*12 GCC-processes running. The load-
> average prevents that from happening.
>
> --
> Joost
>
>

Mine stays very responsive until it runs out of memory.  Once it starts
using swap, it gets slow.  Things still work but it requires a lot of
patience.  Here are some more of my settings:

PORTAGE_NICENESS=5

PORTAGE_IONICE_COMMAND="ionice -c 3 -p \${PID}"

MAKEOPTS="-j8"

I'll most likely upgrade the ram first.  That's the thing that I know is
running out.  The CPU is just a matter of those occasions when more
cores could/might be useful, which may be a lot or may not. 

One just always drools over the latest greatest stuff tho.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[lee]

"taii...@gmx.com"  writes:

> On 12/30/2016 08:39 AM, lee wrote:
>
>> the...@sys-concept.com writes:
>>
>>> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
> [...]
>> If you want a rock solid machine with lots of cores and RAM and very
>> capable of powering VMs, the HP Z800 is worthwhile to check out.
> [...]
>>
> You can build a system with a (new) KGPE-D16, two used 6276 processors
> and used 64gb ecc ram for only around $500 which will net you a 32
> core computer that can run blob free no microcode coreboot that
> supports max 256GB RDIMM RAM.

Including an excellent 850W power supply, a good case, SAS RAID
controller and a graphics card?

The 6276 is a more power hungry than a Xeon and runs at only 2.3GHz
(though I don't know how that compares to the Xeon).  Power consumption
is an issue for me because electricity is way too expensive here.

Asus doesn't seem to say anything about coreboot?

> There is another coreboot compatible (theoretically, but not tested)
> QP max 1TB (jesus christ) RDIMM RAM G34 motherboard, so you could have
> 64 cores for only $20 or so per 16 cores. (plus the $30 for a cpu
> cooler)

It's good to have so many options to choose from :)  Considering all
this, is there a good reason to go for an FX-8350?

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 12/30/2016 08:39 AM, lee wrote:


the...@sys-concept.com writes:


I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).

- IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
- AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
- Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
- Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
- Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
- Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI

Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
with Video Card etc.?
Do I need more RAM?

If you want a rock solid machine with lots of cores and RAM and very
capable of powering VMs, the HP Z800 is worthwhile to check out.

You can get them for good prices here from resellers/ebay, and they are
IMO currently the best you can get for your money if you want something
like that.  Technology has moved on a bit, but you'd spend about twice
the money if you buy something new that offers comparable overall
performance.  The Z820s are still rather pricey.

"Top speed" may be higher with the AMD, but I think it will have a hard
time beating the overall performance of 2 Xeons with 6x2 cores each and
48GB RAM (or whatever configuration you get) when you load it with VMs
and start compiling stuff.

IF that's an issue for you: I've measured the power consumption of a
Z800 with two X5675, 48GB RAM and a GTX770: 130W at idle, which I think
is amazing.  It can reach about 600W when compiling, with the graphics
card working hard and 6 spinning 3.5" disks.

There are no issues with temperatures or anything, and they are pretty
quiet.

The power supplies they have are impressive.  I've seen the lights go
out for like half a second or so, and I expected the machines to go
down, but they kept running as if nothing happened.

You can run Gentoo, Debian and Fedora on them.  If you run Xen on it,
limit cstates to 1 or you may see random freezes.

I wouldn't change mine for anything less than a Z820.  I used to build
my machines from parts, and I quit doing that because it isn't
worthwhile when you can just get a Z800 which offers more for half the
money.


Other than that, as others have already said, you're probably better off
with at least 32GB and a better PSU.  I also don't store data or a
system on a single disk with no redundancy, except for backups.

(A Z800 has four 3.5" bays, and you can get adapters for 2.5" disks that
plug in.  You could use 2x72GB 2.5" 15k SAS disks which you can get very
cheaply for the system, put everything else on your SSD and use a 3.5"
SATA disk for backups.)

You can build a system with a (new) KGPE-D16, two used 6276 processors 
and used 64gb ecc ram for only around $500 which will net you a 32 core 
computer that can run blob free no microcode coreboot that supports max 
256GB RDIMM RAM.


There is another coreboot compatible (theoretically, but not tested) QP 
max 1TB (jesus christ) RDIMM RAM G34 motherboard, so you could have 64 
cores for only $20 or so per 16 cores. (plus the $30 for a cpu cooler)

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[lee]

the...@sys-concept.com writes:

> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
>
> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
>
> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
> with Video Card etc.?
> Do I need more RAM?

If you want a rock solid machine with lots of cores and RAM and very
capable of powering VMs, the HP Z800 is worthwhile to check out.

You can get them for good prices here from resellers/ebay, and they are
IMO currently the best you can get for your money if you want something
like that.  Technology has moved on a bit, but you'd spend about twice
the money if you buy something new that offers comparable overall
performance.  The Z820s are still rather pricey.

"Top speed" may be higher with the AMD, but I think it will have a hard
time beating the overall performance of 2 Xeons with 6x2 cores each and
48GB RAM (or whatever configuration you get) when you load it with VMs
and start compiling stuff.

IF that's an issue for you: I've measured the power consumption of a
Z800 with two X5675, 48GB RAM and a GTX770: 130W at idle, which I think
is amazing.  It can reach about 600W when compiling, with the graphics
card working hard and 6 spinning 3.5" disks.

There are no issues with temperatures or anything, and they are pretty
quiet.

The power supplies they have are impressive.  I've seen the lights go
out for like half a second or so, and I expected the machines to go
down, but they kept running as if nothing happened.

You can run Gentoo, Debian and Fedora on them.  If you run Xen on it,
limit cstates to 1 or you may see random freezes.

I wouldn't change mine for anything less than a Z820.  I used to build
my machines from parts, and I quit doing that because it isn't
worthwhile when you can just get a Z800 which offers more for half the
money.


Other than that, as others have already said, you're probably better off
with at least 32GB and a better PSU.  I also don't store data or a
system on a single disk with no redundancy, except for backups.

(A Z800 has four 3.5" bays, and you can get adapters for 2.5" disks that
plug in.  You could use 2x72GB 2.5" 15k SAS disks which you can get very
cheaply for the system, put everything else on your SSD and use a 3.5"
SATA disk for backups.)

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 12/30/2016 07:54 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:


On 30/12/2016 14:12, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:24:36 -0600, Dale wrote:


Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.

What's the problem, now you have all the justification you need for
buying a bigger monitor ;-)



I have 8 cores with krells for each, plus for procs, 2 disks and 3
interfaces. And plenty vertical space to spare.

1920x1080 monitor of course :-)


I have 16 cores.

You can get a g34 16 core 62xx or 63xx opteron for only $10-40, buy two 
and combine that with a compatible coreboot motherboard and compile 
times will at last be bearable.
Note: the 63xx series needs microcode updates for virtualization, but 
62xx works with no microcode at all.

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Alan McKinnon]

On 30/12/2016 14:12, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:24:36 -0600, Dale wrote:
> 
>> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
>> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
>> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
>> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in. 
> 
> What's the problem, now you have all the justification you need for
> buying a bigger monitor ;-)
> 
> 

I have 8 cores with krells for each, plus for procs, 2 disks and 3
interfaces. And plenty vertical space to spare.

1920x1080 monitor of course :-)

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 00:24:36 -0600, Dale wrote:

> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in. 

What's the problem, now you have all the justification you need for
buying a bigger monitor ;-)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 42: Airline Food


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday, December 30, 2016 10:21:28 AM Mick wrote:
> On Friday 30 Dec 2016 08:18:48 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
> > > J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > > As for the specs:
> > > > 
> > > > - 8 core CPU: nice
> > > 
> > > Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
> > > gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
> > > problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
> > > desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.
> > 
> > I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side
> > of
> > the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
> > I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
> > (Or if there is, where do I set it)
> 
> This can be managed via the DE settings (but it depends on the DE options of
> course).  You can also set it in GKrellM configuration, General, 'Set on
> top of other windows of the same type'.

I don't want it on top, I want it to prevent maximizing from taking the area 
used by gkrellm.

> > > > - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but
> > > > also
> > > > more expensive.
> > > > The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance
> > > > does
> > > > tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs
> > > > using disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check
> > > > your
> > > > requirements.
> > > > 
> > > > - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest
> > > > spec
> > > > that matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with
> > > > Virtualbox. What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for
> > > > disk-cache.
> 
> +1 for more and faster memory.  If the choice comes down to either more, or
> faster memory, go for faster.  With normal desktop use I have not yet
> noticed 16G being exhausted.  I dedicate 8G for tmpfs which is used for
> emerge activities.  I suggest you go for the fastest spec memory your MoBo
> will run. You'll likely have to overclock it to make your memory clock
> higher speeds. As a rule I prefer Asus MoBos, if only because online
> reviews when I built the last PC showed fewer complains that Gigabyte.

Take into account that with Asus boards, the sensors don't always work 
correctly with Linux. Not sure about Gigabyte.

> > > Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
> > > measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
> > > at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
> > > themselves.  It runs out of memory pretty fast.
> 
> I have not noticed this here with 8G our of my 16G RipjawsX RAM dedicated to
> portage, but unlike Dale I do not run a full Plasma DE and try to update
> Chromium, FF, & LO all in parallel at the same time!  ;-)

I do the same on my laptop, with 16GB. That also works. But this laptop dates 
back to when I considered 16GB sufficient.

> With regards to PSUs most reputable manufacturers bring out entry level
> models which use cheap(er) capacitors with inferior rating, middle of the
> road which use upgraded caps and top of the range which are as good as it
> gets.
> 
> On the last box I built I chose a Corsair CX430M PSU and have been very
> pleased with it (so far).  Running a UPS also helps your PSU last longer,
> especially if you live in an area where brown outs happen regularly.

I used to live in such an area. Not currently. But a UPS would still be a good 
idea.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday, December 30, 2016 01:57:53 AM Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
> >> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> As for the specs:
> >>> 
> >>> - 8 core CPU: nice
> >> 
> >> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
> >> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
> >> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
> >> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.
> > 
> > I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side
> > of
> > the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
> > I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
> > (Or if there is, where do I set it)
> 
> I wish we could divide it in half.  Have some sensors on the left side
> and some on the right.  Dang, 12 cores.  That does take up a lot of
> room.  To have it all show up, one would about have to turn their
> monitor on its side and make it tall instead of wide.
> 
> >>> - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also
> >>> more expensive.
> >>> The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance
> >>> does
> >>> tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs
> >>> using disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your
> >>> requirements.
> >>> 
> >>> - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest
> >>> spec
> >>> that matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with
> >>> Virtualbox. What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for
> >>> disk-cache.
> >> 
> >> Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
> >> measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
> >> at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
> >> themselves.  It runs out of memory pretty fast.
> > 
> > I have 32GB in my desktop and I can run a "emerge -e @world" without
> > issues
> > and portages work directory is on tmpfs.
> > And that is with the following parallel-settings in make.conf:
> > MAKEOPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
> > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
> > (Using a 6-core i7)
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> My settings:
> 
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--with-bdeps y --backtrack=100 --keep-going -v -j8
> --quiet-build=n -1"
> 
> I forgot I had that set to 8 jobs.  Wonder why I did that?  Given your
> experience, I want to get more ram and more cores.

More RAM, yes. More cores aren't always necessary.
With regards to your options, the " --load-average  " setting is important 
to keep the system responsive.

With mine, it is possible to have 12*12 GCC-processes running. The load-
average prevents that from happening.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Kai Peter]

On 2016-12-30 03:23, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).

- IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
- AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
- Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
- Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
- Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
- Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI

Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
with Video Card etc.?


Short answer: no.


Do I need more RAM?


Hmm..., I couldn't see a general answer here. From the above it depends 
on the number of VM's and how many RAM you (have to) give them. Maybe as 
a reference, my actual plasma session uses 13 GB of RAM. But having more 
RAM is never a bad thing. If the system starts to swap then you need 
more.


--
Sent with eQmail-1.10-dev

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Mick]

On Friday 30 Dec 2016 08:18:48 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
> > J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > > As for the specs:
> > > 
> > > - 8 core CPU: nice
> > 
> > Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
> > gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
> > problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
> > desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.
> 
> I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side of
> the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
> I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
> (Or if there is, where do I set it)

This can be managed via the DE settings (but it depends on the DE options of 
course).  You can also set it in GKrellM configuration, General, 'Set on top of 
other windows of the same type'.


> > > - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also
> > > more expensive.
> > > The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance
> > > does
> > > tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs
> > > using disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your
> > > requirements.
> > > 
> > > - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest
> > > spec
> > > that matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with
> > > Virtualbox. What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for
> > > disk-cache.

+1 for more and faster memory.  If the choice comes down to either more, or 
faster memory, go for faster.  With normal desktop use I have not yet noticed 
16G being exhausted.  I dedicate 8G for tmpfs which is used for emerge 
activities.  I suggest you go for the fastest spec memory your MoBo will run.  
You'll likely have to overclock it to make your memory clock higher speeds.  
As a rule I prefer Asus MoBos, if only because online reviews when I built the 
last PC showed fewer complains that Gigabyte.


> > Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
> > measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
> > at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
> > themselves.  It runs out of memory pretty fast.

I have not noticed this here with 8G our of my 16G RipjawsX RAM dedicated to 
portage, but unlike Dale I do not run a full Plasma DE and try to update 
Chromium, FF, & LO all in parallel at the same time!  ;-)

With regards to PSUs most reputable manufacturers bring out entry level models 
which use cheap(er) capacitors with inferior rating, middle of the road which 
use upgraded caps and top of the range which are as good as it gets.

On the last box I built I chose a Corsair CX430M PSU and have been very 
pleased with it (so far).  Running a UPS also helps your PSU last longer, 
especially if you live in an area where brown outs happen regularly.

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Kai Peter]

- 8 core CPU: nice


Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,


Have had such CPU (AMD FX8350) and wasn't satisfied really. It wasn't 
powerful as *I* expected. I didn't get it cool and quiet as I wanted to 
in my desktop. Even not with water cooling. IMO more RAM is better than 
more cores.


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Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>
>>> As for the specs:
>>>
>>> - 8 core CPU: nice
>> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
>> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
>> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
>> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.
> I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side of 
> the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
> I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
> (Or if there is, where do I set it)

I wish we could divide it in half.  Have some sensors on the left side
and some on the right.  Dang, 12 cores.  That does take up a lot of
room.  To have it all show up, one would about have to turn their
monitor on its side and make it tall instead of wide. 


>
>>> - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also
>>> more expensive.
>>> The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance
>>> does
>>> tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs
>>> using disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your
>>> requirements.
>>>
>>> - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest spec
>>> that matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with
>>> Virtualbox. What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for
>>> disk-cache.
>> Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
>> measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
>> at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
>> themselves.  It runs out of memory pretty fast.
> I have 32GB in my desktop and I can run a "emerge -e @world" without issues 
> and portages work directory is on tmpfs.
> And that is with the following parallel-settings in make.conf:
> MAKEOPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
> (Using a 6-core i7)
>
> --
> Joost
>

My settings:

EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--with-bdeps y --backtrack=100 --keep-going -v -j8
--quiet-build=n -1"

I forgot I had that set to 8 jobs.  Wonder why I did that?  Given your
experience, I want to get more ram and more cores. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 11:45:30 PM CET Dale wrote:
> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> > On 12/29/2016 08:06 PM, Dale wrote:
> >> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> >>> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
> >>> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
> >>> 
> >>> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
> >>> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
> >>> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
> >>> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
> >>> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
> >>> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
> >>> 
> >>> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
> >>> with Video Card etc.?
> >>> Do I need more RAM?
> >> 
> >> I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
> >> portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
> >> more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs.
> >> I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
> >> upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory.
> >> I'm using ~8GBs as I type.
> >> 
> >> I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it.
> >> I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
> >> step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
> >> setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
> >> like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
> >> on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig.
> >> 
> >> One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
> >> is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
> >> heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
> >> used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made.
> >> May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
> >> crappy P/S.
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > Thank you for the input Dale.
> > Yes, Power Supply is a good point.  I think I'll change the case and
> > select different PS.  Any hints as to which brand is good?
> > 
> > I think they are all made in China :-/
> > 
> > Thelma
> 
> On the case, there are tons of brands that are good.  Mostly, just pick
> one that suites the purpose you need.  When I built mine, I wanted one
> that would keep everything nice and cool even when compiling LibreO and
> some others that compile a while.  I got the Cooler Master HAF-932.
> It's large tho.  Seriously, it's large.  It does have some really nice
> fans in it tho.  Even when compiling for long periods of time, my temps
> are no higher than 110F and that would be in the summer when it is a bit
> warm in this room.  In the winter, it can't even get to 95F or so.  My
> CPU has a good size cooler.  Can't recall the name but the stock one is
> in my storage building somewhere.  It's tiny.  The only downside, it
> needs blowing out pretty regular.  When the idle temps get up a bit, I
> drag out the air tank.  Oh, it sits right next to my bed, like 3 feet
> away. I've never heard it make a noise, no matter what it is compiling.
> The only noise is a slight vibration when the fans first turn on.  If
> you need a tiny case tho, they make those too.  Some small ones even
> have decent cooling.  Just have to dig around.
> 
> On the power supply, I would look at some reviews.  I have a
> ThermalTake.  It was well rated at the time.   The link below tests
> power supplies pretty hard.  They tough on them but they are pretty fair
> on the scoring.  If they say it works well, it should work.  They put
> loads on them that a normal home user likely never would.  If it can't
> take the loads it claims, they don't have a problem letting the smoke
> out.  Linky:
> 
> http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews=Review_Cat=1
> 3
> 
> 
> The way I do, I try to figure out what amount of power I predict the
> system will pull.  Then I double or roughly double it.  That way I get
> some wiggle room for errors or future upgrades plus that initial start
> up draw.  Figuring that accurately is somewhat hard to do tho.  When I
> built my current rig, I went way overboard.  I think my P/S is like 700
> watts or so.  As I said, it pulls under 200 watts and that is after
> adding some hard drives and more memory to it.  I suspect that 300 to
> 400 watts will do OK unless you plan to install some power hungry video
> card in there later.
> 
>  I have a Gigabyte 970A-UD3P board.  I try to get as high a UD number as
> I can, if they still use those.  I have 4 dimms installed and a 4 core
> CPU running at ~3.2GHz.  I think most all the CPUs pull about the same,
> they claim to be 125 Watt or less.  So, 4 core or 8 core, shouldn't be
> much different, I'd guess.  I also have 4 hard drives.  Given that 

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[J. Roeleveld]

On Friday, December 30, 2016 12:24:36 AM CET Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> 
> > As for the specs:
> > 
> > - 8 core CPU: nice
> 
> Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
> gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
> problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
> desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in.

I know what you mean. What I miss is an option to have gkrellm on 1 side of 
the screen and when I maximize a window, that doesn't hide gkrellm.
I limited some of the sensors to be able to fit all 12 virtual cores.
(Or if there is, where do I set it)

> > - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also
> > more expensive.
> > The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance
> > does
> > tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs
> > using disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your
> > requirements.
> > 
> > - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest spec
> > that matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with
> > Virtualbox. What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for
> > disk-cache.
> Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
> measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
> at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
> themselves.  It runs out of memory pretty fast.

I have 32GB in my desktop and I can run a "emerge -e @world" without issues 
and portages work directory is on tmpfs.
And that is with the following parallel-settings in make.conf:
MAKEOPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs 12 --load-average 14"
(Using a 6-core i7)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 9:36:43 PM CET the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>> On 12/29/2016 08:06 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
 I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
 Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).

 - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
 - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
 - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
 - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
 - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
 - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI

 Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
 with Video Card etc.?
 Do I need more RAM?
>>> I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
>>> portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
>>> more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs.
>>> I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
>>> upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory.
>>> I'm using ~8GBs as I type.
>>>
>>> I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it.
>>> I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
>>> step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
>>> setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
>>> like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
>>> on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig.
>>>
>>> One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
>>> is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
>>> heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
>>> used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made.
>>> May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
>>> crappy P/S.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> :-)  :-)
>> Thank you for the input Dale.
>> Yes, Power Supply is a good point.  I think I'll change the case and
>> select different PS.  Any hints as to which brand is good?
>>
>> I think they are all made in China :-/
>>
>> Thelma
> I agree with Dale.
>
> Make sure you have a good P/S. As for which are good, check reviews online, I 
> am sure Dale and others know which sites are reliable.
>
> "Made in China" <> "Made in China", I know of Chinese manufacturers that make 
> really good and reliable products. I also know some that simply don't care.
> In this case, replace Chinese with American, Dutch, German, and you end 
> up 
> with the same statement which will also be true.

The site I just posted a link to used to take points away for Chinese
made caps and even some USA made ones I think.  They really liked
Japanese made caps in P/Ss.  About a year or so ago, they started
allowing some Chinese made caps.  Some of them make some really good
long life caps.  What you say is so true.  It's just like hard drives. 
If you ask, there will always be a few that will say brand X is junk
because I had one that failed and I lost data, and it killed my kids etc
etc.  I've lost a couple Western Digital drives myself but I'd still buy
one.  Both of them warned me using the S.M.A.R.T. utils that they were
failing.  Hey, if it's going to fail, at least let me have some warning
so that I can save my stuff.  I can be forgiving on the rest.  Same with
Samsung.  I got a 3TB Samsung that is a nifty door stop.  :/

One thing about that site I linked to, if it has caps in it that are
questionable, they say so.  They also disassemble the units so that you
can see how they are built.  You don't have to take the sites word for
what is in there.  You can look for yourself. 


>
> As for the specs:
>
> - 8 core CPU: nice

Makes me drool a bit here.  I want a 8 core CPU.  The only downside,
gkrellm won't have enough screen to show each core separately.  That's a
problem there.  lol  It already takes up the whole right side on one
desktop.  I guess I could make the thing shorter to fit them all in. 


>
> - mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also more 
> expensive.
> The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance does 
> tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs using 
> disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your 
> requirements.
>
> - memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest spec 
> that 
> matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with Virtualbox. 
> What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for disk-cache.

Same here.  Putting portage's work directory on tmpfs does make it
measurably faster.  Bad thing is, if Firefox and LibreO needs to update
at the same time, I have to go back to spinning rust or do them by
themselves.  It runs out of 

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Dale]

the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> On 12/29/2016 08:06 PM, Dale wrote:
>> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>>> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
>>> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
>>>
>>> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
>>> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
>>> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
>>> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
>>> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
>>> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
>>>
>>> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
>>> with Video Card etc.?
>>> Do I need more RAM?
>>>
>>
>> I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
>> portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
>> more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs. 
>> I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
>> upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory. 
>> I'm using ~8GBs as I type. 
>>
>> I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it. 
>> I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
>> step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
>> setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
>> like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
>> on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig. 
>>
>> One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
>> is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
>> heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
>> used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made. 
>> May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
>> crappy P/S. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> Thank you for the input Dale.
> Yes, Power Supply is a good point.  I think I'll change the case and
> select different PS.  Any hints as to which brand is good?
>
> I think they are all made in China :-/
>
> Thelma
>

On the case, there are tons of brands that are good.  Mostly, just pick
one that suites the purpose you need.  When I built mine, I wanted one
that would keep everything nice and cool even when compiling LibreO and
some others that compile a while.  I got the Cooler Master HAF-932. 
It's large tho.  Seriously, it's large.  It does have some really nice
fans in it tho.  Even when compiling for long periods of time, my temps
are no higher than 110F and that would be in the summer when it is a bit
warm in this room.  In the winter, it can't even get to 95F or so.  My
CPU has a good size cooler.  Can't recall the name but the stock one is
in my storage building somewhere.  It's tiny.  The only downside, it
needs blowing out pretty regular.  When the idle temps get up a bit, I
drag out the air tank.  Oh, it sits right next to my bed, like 3 feet
away. I've never heard it make a noise, no matter what it is compiling. 
The only noise is a slight vibration when the fans first turn on.  If
you need a tiny case tho, they make those too.  Some small ones even
have decent cooling.  Just have to dig around. 

On the power supply, I would look at some reviews.  I have a
ThermalTake.  It was well rated at the time.   The link below tests
power supplies pretty hard.  They tough on them but they are pretty fair
on the scoring.  If they say it works well, it should work.  They put
loads on them that a normal home user likely never would.  If it can't
take the loads it claims, they don't have a problem letting the smoke
out.  Linky:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews=Review_Cat=13


The way I do, I try to figure out what amount of power I predict the
system will pull.  Then I double or roughly double it.  That way I get
some wiggle room for errors or future upgrades plus that initial start
up draw.  Figuring that accurately is somewhat hard to do tho.  When I
built my current rig, I went way overboard.  I think my P/S is like 700
watts or so.  As I said, it pulls under 200 watts and that is after
adding some hard drives and more memory to it.  I suspect that 300 to
400 watts will do OK unless you plan to install some power hungry video
card in there later.

 I have a Gigabyte 970A-UD3P board.  I try to get as high a UD number as
I can, if they still use those.  I have 4 dimms installed and a 4 core
CPU running at ~3.2GHz.  I think most all the CPUs pull about the same,
they claim to be 125 Watt or less.  So, 4 core or 8 core, shouldn't be
much different, I'd guess.  I also have 4 hard drives.  Given that info,
you should be able to see what wattage you need.  Oh, my video card was
sent to me by a subscriber to this list.  He had one he wanted to get
rid of and I posted that I hadn't picked out one yet, and didn't need
bleeding edge or anything 

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 9:36:43 PM CET the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> On 12/29/2016 08:06 PM, Dale wrote:
> > the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> >> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
> >> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
> >> 
> >> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
> >> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
> >> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
> >> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
> >> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
> >> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
> >> 
> >> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
> >> with Video Card etc.?
> >> Do I need more RAM?
> > 
> > I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
> > portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
> > more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs.
> > I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
> > upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory.
> > I'm using ~8GBs as I type.
> > 
> > I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it.
> > I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
> > step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
> > setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
> > like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
> > on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig.
> > 
> > One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
> > is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
> > heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
> > used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made.
> > May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
> > crappy P/S.
> > 
> > Dale
> > 
> > :-)  :-)
> 
> Thank you for the input Dale.
> Yes, Power Supply is a good point.  I think I'll change the case and
> select different PS.  Any hints as to which brand is good?
> 
> I think they are all made in China :-/
> 
> Thelma

I agree with Dale.

Make sure you have a good P/S. As for which are good, check reviews online, I 
am sure Dale and others know which sites are reliable.

"Made in China" <> "Made in China", I know of Chinese manufacturers that make 
really good and reliable products. I also know some that simply don't care.
In this case, replace Chinese with American, Dutch, German, and you end up 
with the same statement which will also be true.

As for the specs:

- 8 core CPU: nice

- mSATA SSD: Make sure it fits your mainboard. NVMe is faster, but also more 
expensive.
The Samsung EVO series are good for normal work-loads. The performance does 
tend to drop when the write-cache starts to fill up. With multiple VMs using 
disk and swap, that can happen quicker then you think. Check your 
requirements.

- memory: Personally, I would increase this to 32GB with the fastest spec that 
matches the CPU and mainboard. It helps a lot, especially with Virtualbox. 
What isn't used by applications/VMs will be available for disk-cache.

- Graphics: Can't really comment, for normal desktop effects, this will be 
more than enough. For average games, the same. For high-end games, you'd be 
speccing your computer differently anyway :)

I also would consider, if you're using VMs, a large (size) spinning disk to 
store VM templates and ISO-images. These are not used often, but this way you 
can keep the SSD available for VMs, installed software and your documents. 
Laptop harddrives are generally quite power efficient.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[thelma]

On 12/29/2016 08:06 PM, Dale wrote:
> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
>> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
>>
>> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
>> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
>> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
>> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
>> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
>> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
>>
>> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
>> with Video Card etc.?
>> Do I need more RAM?
>>
> 
> 
> I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
> portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
> more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs. 
> I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
> upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory. 
> I'm using ~8GBs as I type. 
> 
> I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it. 
> I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
> step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
> setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
> like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
> on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig. 
> 
> One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
> is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
> heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
> used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made. 
> May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
> crappy P/S. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

Thank you for the input Dale.
Yes, Power Supply is a good point.  I think I'll change the case and
select different PS.  Any hints as to which brand is good?

I think they are all made in China :-/

Thelma

Re: [gentoo-user] New box

[Dale]

the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
> Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).
>
> - IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
> - AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
> - Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
> - Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
> - Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
> - Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI
>
> Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
> with Video Card etc.?
> Do I need more RAM?
>


I built a rig a while back and have 16GBs of memory.  I also have
portage's work directory on tmpfs.  There are times when I wish I had
more memory.  I'm planning to upgrade to 24GBs and eventually, 32GBs. 
I'm not sure what your board can hold but may want to think about future
upgrades.  I run KDE here, there are times where I use a lot of memory. 
I'm using ~8GBs as I type. 

I've been using a Gigabyte board for a long while.  I'm happy with it. 
I actually still have a 2nd board that I upgraded from.  It was a first
step to upgrade memory and such.  I think I had to change the IOMMU
setting in the BIOS.  I think that was the name of it.  It's something
like that.  I think I had to add something to the kernel boot line too
on that.  Let me know if you need it, I'll go dig. 

One other thing, I have a UPS that shows what amount of power my system
is using.  It shows ~150 watts.  It will jump to ~190 when compiling
heavily.  You may want to make sure that P/S is well made.  I've never
used a P/S that came with a case.  Generally, they are cheaply made. 
May want to make sure of that before you use it.  Nothing worse than a
crappy P/S. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] New box

[thelma]

I'm putting a new system, it will be running mainly, VirtualBox,
Asterisk, Hylafax etc. (nothing graphic intensive).

- IN WIN BL631 Low Profile Micro ATX Case w/ 300W Power Supply,
- AMD FX-8350 Processor 4.0GHz w/ 16MB Cache
- Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 w/ DDR3, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan
- Kingston HyperX Fury 16GB DDR3-1866MHz CL10 Dual Channel Kit
- Samsung 850 EVO Series mSATA Solid State Drive, 1TB
- Asus GeForce GT 720 Silent CSM, 2GB, PCI-E w/ D-Sub VGA, DVI, HDMI

Will I have any problems installing Gentoo on this configuration, eg.
with Video Card etc.?
Do I need more RAM?

-- 
Thelma

[gentoo-user] new box working well: 2 small problems

[Philip Webb]

My new machine is working well  thanks again for various advice
(see earlier msgs for details of hardware etc).
I set up LVM  had to enable a few things in the kernel,
but the only real obstacle was the graphics chip -- Intel on the mobo -- ,
whose driver is simply not ready yet, so I bought an Nvidia card.
The system is the same (except 64-bit), except that I'm using Firefox
after finding it required  50 pkgs  to install Epiphany (grimace).
On average, CPU-intensive tasks take  40 %  as long as previously
(Intel E6750 + 1066 MHz memory now, AMD Athlon 2500+ + 400 MHz before).

 2  small irritants remain.  (1) CPU temperatures are inaccurate:
when I start from cold in a room at  26 C  (by my everyday thermometer),
BIOS shows both CPUs at  8 C : the graphics chip is also misread,
but the other direction, showing  44 C ; clearly, both sb room-temperature.
Currently, both are showing  23 C  in Gkrellm (room is  28 C ).
I can correct the GPU in Gkrellm, but the CPU temperatures defy change:
settings boxes are grey  editing  ~/.gkrellm2/sensor-config  has no effect.
Moreover, there is a warning in the kernel messages ('dmesg'):

  CPU0: Thermal monitoring enabled (TM2)
  ...
  CPU1: Thermal monitoring enabled (TM2)
  ...
  coretemp coretemp.0: Using undocumented features,
   absolute temperature might be wrong!
  coretemp coretemp.1: Using undocumented features,
   absolute temperature might be wrong!

I searched the Forum  tried Google without much success
 'coretemp' does not appear as a 'chip' in  /etc/sensors.conf .
It looks like a driver problem, perhaps compounded by Gkrellm.

(2) I'm having random freezes when using the diskette (floppy) drive:
insert a disk, enter an Mtools cmd  the only way out is the reset button.
I swapped drive+cable with the previous box without any effect.
'Alt-SysRq-K' has no effect.  It has not happened before going back to 2000.
Hald detects the drive on start-up with a distinct clunk from the box.
Might it be a mobo defect ? -- perhaps they don't test floppies much today.

Has anyone else encountered either of these problems or have a suggestion ?

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071031 Philip Webb wrote:
 071030 James Ausmus wrote:
 the media-libs/mesa-7.0.1 works fine
 *IF* you apply the attached patch (either hack the ebuild
 or CTRL-Z immediately after emerge gets done unpacking the source).
 I had the same problem you did, did the Googling, found the patch
 and everything works fine for me now.

I managed to hit  ^z  at the right moment  the emerge succeeded.
Afterwards, 'glxgears' ran safely revealing all of 1964 fps
(it's  1491  with software acceleration on the new machine
  1212  with h/ware acceleration on the current machine).
So thanks for the patch, but the big showstopper remains,
for which I will send another msg to the list.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071031 Philip Webb wrote:
 Meanwhile, what I believed to be a small irritant is proving a show-stopper.
 Leaving aside DRI, the display from the new machine spills off the screen:

See previous msg for full horror story, but I did check the DPI :
both machines show 99x98 in answer to 'xdpyinfo'.
There have been a lot of confused  frustrated users on the Forum recently
 a surprising lack of resolution of problems in this area:
perhaps I've fallen over the cutting into the bleeding edge with my G33.

One suggestion (repeated twice) was to try  xf86-video-i810-1.7.4 ,
which is said to lack a bug introduced in newer versions.  Mb tomorrow ...

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Benno Schulenberg]

Philip Webb wrote:
 The kernel is 2.6.22-r8 : I will try 2.6.23 tomorrow.

No need, sorry, I was pointing you in the wrong direction.  Kernel 
2.6.22 already knows about 29c2 for i915.

 I checked the wiki paragraph  the subdir it refers to
  the modules are already built  'lsmod' shows them installed:
 is there any sense in rebuilding them ?

No.  But do build the Mesa modules from git, the 1.2.2 and 1.4 part:

  http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building

These three lines were added to i915/intel_context.h since 7.0.1:

#define PCI_CHIP_G33_G  0x29C2
#define PCI_CHIP_Q35_G  0x29B2
#define PCI_CHIP_Q33_G  0x29D2

So, time to install git and do a big pull.  :)

(Don't build libdrm, the x11-libs/libdrm-2.3.0 you have is fine.)

Benno
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[James Ausmus]

On 10/30/07, Benno Schulenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
  The kernel is 2.6.22-r8 : I will try 2.6.23 tomorrow.

 No need, sorry, I was pointing you in the wrong direction.  Kernel
 2.6.22 already knows about 29c2 for i915.

  I checked the wiki paragraph  the subdir it refers to
   the modules are already built  'lsmod' shows them installed:
  is there any sense in rebuilding them ?

 No.  But do build the Mesa modules from git, the 1.2.2 and 1.4 part:

   http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building

 These three lines were added to i915/intel_context.h since 7.0.1:

 #define PCI_CHIP_G33_G  0x29C2
 #define PCI_CHIP_Q35_G  0x29B2
 #define PCI_CHIP_Q33_G  0x29D2

 So, time to install git and do a big pull.  :)

You don't have to go to all that, the media-libs/mesa-7.0.1 works fine
*IF* you apply the attached patch (either hack the ebuild, or CTRL-Z
immediately after emerge gets done unpacking the source). I had the
same problem you did, did the Googling, found the patch, and
everything works fine for me now.

HTH

-James



 (Don't build libdrm, the x11-libs/libdrm-2.3.0 you have is fine.)

 Benno
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g33.patch
Description: Binary data

Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071030 James Ausmus wrote:
 On 10/30/07, Benno Schulenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 build the Mesa modules from git, the 1.2.2 and 1.4 part:
   http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building
 These three lines were added to i915/intel_context.h since 7.0.1:
   #define PCI_CHIP_G33_G  0x29C2
   #define PCI_CHIP_Q35_G  0x29B2
   #define PCI_CHIP_Q33_G  0x29D2
 You don't have to go to all that, the media-libs/mesa-7.0.1 works fine
 *IF* you apply the attached patch (either hack the ebuild
 or CTRL-Z immediately after emerge gets done unpacking the source).
 I had the same problem you did, did the Googling, found the patch
 and everything works fine for me now.

I did try unpacking the MesaLibs distfile, patching  repacking,
but of course Portage objected that the file size was incorrect !
I've looked at the Mesa ebuild, but have no idea how to hack it
nor am I confident of applying the patch during a suspended emerge.
I could try the 2nd, but could you fill out a few more details of the 1st,
which I will note for future occasions ?
This certainly looks like the solution to the DRI problem.

Meanwhile, what I believed to be a small irritant is proving a show-stopper.
Leaving aside DRI, the display from the new machine spills off the screen:
it's way off to the left (eg Gkrellm is invisible on the KDE desktop)
 loses about half the KDE panel when placed at top/bottom/right-side;
mouse-X starts left of centre  the fonts  icons are badly oversized.
KDE Control Centre tells me the display is 1680x1050 @ 60 Hz (as it sb).
Elsewhere, it does appear the screen's physical size ( 430 x 270 mm )
is being recognised, tho' perhaps it's not being applied correctly.

I believed the problem was due to faulty thro'put by my KVM switch,
but plugging the monitor directly into the new machine make no difference.
I don't see any obvious solution in the monitor manual (Samsung 206BW).
The current machine using an Nvidia card  direct monitor plug-in
produces none of these defects, suggesting the cause is the G33 chip.
I'm not keen to buy another Nvidia card, if I can avoid it ...

Any advice here too wb very welcome.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Dale]

Philip Webb wrote:
 I did try unpacking the MesaLibs distfile, patching  repacking,
 but of course Portage objected that the file size was incorrect !
 snip 

 Any advice here too wb very welcome.

   

You may be able to use the --digest feature so it doesn't check the
tarball before using it.  I think that may work.

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-)  :-) 
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Benno Schulenberg]

Philip Webb wrote:
   Unrecognised deviceID 29c2
   backtrace ...
   ... /usr/lib64/dri/i915_dri.so ...  (provided by pkg 'mesa')

What versions of Mesa and xf86-video-i810 are you running?  And what 
is in the Section Device of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?

Benno
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Benno Schulenberg]

Philip Webb wrote:
 071029 Benno Schulenberg wrote:
  What versions of Mesa and xf86-video-i810 are you running?

   'mesa-progs-6.5.2' (latest available).

Get the one from testing, 7.0.1.  But what you need is 
media-libs/mesa; mesa-progs is just glxinfo/glxgears.

   'xf86-video-i810-2.1.0' ( 2.1.1 is in testing (~)).

Get the newest one, as there's much development in the intel driver.

   Section Device
 [...]
   Driver  intel

Looks good.

 I tried permutations of Options suggested on Forum posts without
 success (I haven't asked on the Forum myself): eg adding 'Option
 DRI true', which seems merely to duplicate Accel above.

The man page of i810 says only NoAccel and DRI exist, and both 
default to use it, so your settings don't change anything.

 I am a bit confused by the requirement for  2  drivers  i810 
 i915 . The same dir has  i810_dri.so  i915tex_dri.so  i965_dri.so
  (all from Mesa). Is it using the wrong driver ?

No, it should auto-detect which of those drivers it needs.  It's 
just that your lib is too old for the newer G33,

Benno
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071029 Benno Schulenberg wrote:
 Philip Webb wrote:
   Unrecognised deviceID 29c2
   backtrace ...
   ... /usr/lib64/dri/i915_dri.so ...  (provided by pkg 'mesa')
 What versions of Mesa and xf86-video-i810 are you running?

  'mesa-progs-6.5.2' (latest available).
  'xf86-video-i810-2.1.0' ( 2.1.1 is in testing (~)).

 And what is in the Section Device of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf?

  Section Device
  ### Available Driver options are:-
  ### Values: i: integer, f: float, bool: True/False,
  ### string: String, freq: f Hz/kHz/MHz
  ### [arg]: arg optional
  Option Accel On   # [bool]
  #Option SWcursor# [bool]
  #Option ColorKey# i
  #Option CacheLines  # i
  #Option Dac6Bit # [bool]
  #Option  DRI true # [bool]
  #Option NoDDC   # [bool]
  #Option ShowCache   # [bool]
  #Option XvMCSurfaces# i
  #Option PageFlip# [bool]
Identifier  Card0
Driver  intel
VendorName  Intel Corporation
BoardName   Integrated Graphics Controller
BusID   PCI:0:2:0
  EndSection

This is the result of 'X -config' (with a small format change).
I tried permutations of Options suggested on Forum posts without success
(I haven't asked on the Forum myself): eg adding 'Option DRI true',
which seems merely to duplicate Accel above.

I am a bit confused by the requirement for  2  drivers  i810  i915 .
The same dir has  i810_dri.so  i915tex_dri.so  i965_dri.so  (all from Mesa).
Is it using the wrong driver ?  Is there a way to test the others ?

Thanks again for your response.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Benno Schulenberg]

Philip Webb wrote:
 I updated to the latest versions  7.0.1  7.0.1  2.1.1   rebooted
  there is no change: X crashes as soon as 'glxinfo' starts
 with the same error message unrecognised deviceID 29c2
 while using  /usr/lib64/dri/i915_dri.so .

What kernel version are you running?  Try updating to the most 
recent one.  If then you still get unrecognised deviceID 29c2, 
build the kernel modules from source (just the 1.7 DRM part):

  http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building

 Is there any way of testing the other  3  versions in the dir,
 which I listed in the previous msg (one is 'i915tex') ?

There's no need.  It knows which one to choose.  :)

Benno
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071030 Benno Schulenberg wrote:
 What kernel version are you running?  Try updating to the most recent.
 If then you still get unrecognised deviceID 29c2, 
 build the kernel modules from source (just the 1.7 DRM part):
   http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/Building

The kernel is 2.6.22-r8 : I will try 2.6.23 tomorrow.
I suspect the driver(s) haven't caught up with the hardware yet.

I checked the wiki paragraph  the subdir it refers to
 the modules are already built  'lsmod' shows them installed:
is there any sense in rebuilding them ?

 Is there any way of testing the other  3  versions in the dir,
 which I listed in the previous msg (one is 'i915tex') ?
 There's no need.  It knows which one to choose.  :)

That's good to know (smile).

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box DRI problem : more

[Philip Webb]

071027 Philip Webb wrote:
 X starts with no errors in the log, but 'glxgears'  'glxinfo' crash X.
 The processor is an Intel G33 using drivers 'i810'  'i915' ;
 kernel 2.6.22-r8 ; 64-bit system .

After sleeping on the problem  reading Forum discussion re 'x11-drm',
I've tried a few more things, none of which makes any difference:
permutating some options under 'Device' in  xorg.conf ,
checking all relevant items are enabled in the kernel
 finally unmerging 'x11-drm', which seems rather flakey
 whose removal had not the slightest effect (wry smile).

However, I did notice  2  lines on the screen after the crashes:

  Unrecognised deviceID 29c2
  backtrace ...
  ... /usr/lib64/dri/i915_dri.so ...  (provided by pkg 'mesa')

This suggests there is some very basic problem re recognising acceleration
on the G33 , caused by a defect in the driver(s) being used.

Can anyone confirm that this is the correct diagnosis ?
It looks like material for a bug report, but Gentoo or LKML ?

A lot of people have been reporting difficulties getting DRI to work here,
tho' only a few seem to have encountered my problem of a crash out of X.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Eric Martin]

Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.

 I'm new to USB sticks  haven't formatted them in any way:
 they seem to have an existing file system on them,
 but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
 So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
 Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
 How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.


Sticks are usually formatted w/FAT16 as M$ is giving people a hard time
about FAT32 (which is even more inefficent.)

Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Mick]

On Saturday 20 October 2007, Alex Schuster wrote:
 Philip Webb writes:
  BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
  I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.

 You can also use any other boot CD. Well, unless you use the automatic
 installer, but it seems people don't like it much and prefer to do the
 install manually.

   Alex

Is there a good reason for not using ssh to transport any fs you want from one 
machine to the other?  That's how I usually do it using tar and pipes 
(tarpipeuntar).
-- 
Regards,
Mick


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Philip Webb]

071019 Peter Alfredsen wrote:
 On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:
 (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
 which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
 as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
 should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?
 If it has a setting Configure SATA as AHCI, try that.
 AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.

Yes, that did the trick !  Thanks.

Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
It won't affect today's installation job,
but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[b.n.]

Philip Webb ha scritto:
 071019 Peter Alfredsen wrote:
 On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:
 (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
 which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
 as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
 should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?
 If it has a setting Configure SATA as AHCI, try that.
 AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.
 
 Yes, that did the trick !  Thanks.
 
 Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
 takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
 It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
 It won't affect today's installation job,
 but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.

I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks. What filesystem do you
use on them?


m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Daniel Iliev]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:51:25 -0400
Philip Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--snip--
 
 Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
 takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
 It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
 It won't affect today's installation job,
 but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.
 

Are the source media and the usb stick formatted with the same file
system? Are the block sizes of the file systems the same?


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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Philip Webb]

071020 b.n. wrote:
 Philip Webb ha scritto:
 Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
 takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
 It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
 It won't affect today's installation job,
 but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.
 I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks.
 What filesystem do you use on them?

Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.
I'm new to USB sticks  haven't formatted them in any way:
they seem to have an existing file system on them,
but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Alex Schuster]

Philip Webb writes:

 BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
 I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.

You can also use any other boot CD. Well, unless you use the automatic 
installer, but it seems people don't like it much and prefer to do the 
install manually.

Alex
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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles (1 solved)

[Florian Philipp]

Philip Webb schrieb:

071020 b.n. wrote:

Philip Webb ha scritto:

Anyone have a suggestion why using 'cp -a' to copy a lot of subdirs
takes additional space on the USB stick (over the HDD space used) ?
It doesn't happen when copying a straight set of files.
It won't affect today's installation job,
but wb useful for the future, if there's some way of avoiding it.

I've seen similar effects on my fat32 USB sticks.
What filesystem do you use on them?


Another responder mentioned block sizes.  Yes, that mb the problem.
I'm new to USB sticks  haven't formatted them in any way:
they seem to have an existing file system on them,
but mb it's Fat32, which seems likely to be inefficient.
So are there any standard recommendations for formatting them ?
Do I simply do 'mke2fs' (the HDDs are formatted with ReiserFS) ?
How about block size ?  Thanks for the replies so far.



Ext2 is a good choice as long as you don't want to exchange data with 
Windows (except you can install the ext2 driver on the Windows 
machines). Don't use journalized file systems like Ext3 and Reiserfs 
since their journal causes additional write operations and flash media 
only last a limited number of them. (of course, you could disable 
reiserfs's journal but that's just additional trouble).


Blocksize for Ext2? As long as you don't transfer many very small files 
(=3k), stick with the default.


If you want to continue using FAT, you should create zip or tar 
archives. That way, you can preserve file permissions and don't wast 
space on your stick.

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Re: [gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Peter Alfredsen]

On Friday 19 October 2007, Philip Webb wrote:

 (1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
 which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
 as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
 should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?

If it has a setting that says Configure SATA as AHCI, you might want to try 
that. AHCI is a generic-ish interface that should improve compatibility.

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[gentoo-user] new box: 2 small puzzles

[Philip Webb]

My new machine is working well  I'm starting to install the system.
So far, there are  2  things I would value advice on.

(1) The mobo (ASUS P5K-VM) manual has as default 'Configure SATA as IDE',
which I have left as is.  However, while the System Rescue CD finds the HDD
as '/dev/sda', neither the Gentoo Live CD nor Knoppix sees it:
should I change the mobo setting (the HDD is SATA) ?

(2) I've been using a  2 GB  USB memory stick to transfer material
from my present machine to the new one.  The space taken up on the stick
is much larger than that shown by 'df' or 'du' on either HDD :
is there some inefficiency in how data is written to a USB stick ?
is there some way of making it as efficient as an HDD ?
I've been using the command 'cp -a', which is slow but usually safe.

BTW I'm amazed that System Rescue doesn't seem to know re 'pppoe'.
I hope to install Gentoo from the copied files w/o using the I/net.

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TRANSIT`-O--O---'  University of Toronto
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