Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Wols Lists]

On 27/11/19 18:55, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> * Daniel Frey:
> 
>> > I have exactly one choice for an ISP and I need a static IP. The ISP
>> > disables ipv6 for some reason when you have a static IP.

> Like I said, the availability of "decent" ISPs varies by location, and
> there are of course locations where one is basically screwed when it
> comes to IPv6, even in November 2019.

You're forgetting that this encompasses pretty much all of the United
States.

At least in the UK we do separate a lot of infrastructure from supply -
pretty much everyone has the ability to choose any ISP, which then
supplies service over BT/OpenReach's infrastructure, but of course this
is the most ancient infrastructure in the country and - in remote areas
where there is no competition - it still has trouble supplying 2MB ADSL.

Cheers,
wol

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Wols Lists]

On 27/11/19 09:28, Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 01:51:44 GMT Dale wrote:
>> > Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale  wrote:
 > >> I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
 > >> looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
 > >> find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
 > >> there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
 > >> something else maybe?

> It is called the OEM's website where technical specs are provided for each 
> model.

If you can find the website, and if you can find the technical pages
rather than the marketing pages.

The number of times I've downloaded what *claims* to be a manual, and it
turns out to be a quick-start guide. Finding information is  hard.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Wols Lists]

On 26/11/19 23:56, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> * Adam Carter:
> 
>> when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become directly routable from
>> the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.
> 
> Even pretty anemic hardware can handle the demands of an IPv6 firewall,
> for example using iptables/nftables. The demands of IPV6-related
> processing should actually be a bit lower than for IPv4, because IPv6
> does not need NAT.
> 
AND a router should be able to handle IPv6 easier than v4, because the
routing is hierarchical. v4 was meant to be like that, but fragmentation
has completely messed things up. v4 routing tables are now a complete mess.

v6 allocates a huge block to each of the registries, which is subdivided
among the ISPs, which is subdivided among the customers, which is then
shared out among the customer's network. So each router has a much
simpler task just shunting packets up or down based on whether the
computer's address belongs to the router's network or not.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Mick]

On Thursday, 28 November 2019 08:50:07 GMT Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 09:28:59AM +, Mick wrote
> 
> > The world is moving towards high speed wireless connectivity anyway,
> > so more and more devices will not need a physical switch port or
> > ethernet cables to gain access to the network.
> 
>   "High speed wireless" is going to be a big disappointment.  Due to
> laws of physics, you need high frequencies for faster wireless speeds.
> But higher frequencies have a lot less penetrating power.  They might
> scream in a short range lab test, but in the real world, lower
> frequencies actually perform better.  See
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/millimeter-wave-5g-wi
> ll-never-scale-beyond-dense-urban-areas-t-mobile-says/ for a demo.  This is
> about cellphone frequencies, but the same laws of physics apply.

Quite so.  This is why infrastructure providers are planning to use lamp 
posts, public buildings and the like.  In rural areas where no street lighting 
exists this becomes a problem.

However, many domestic WiFi routers come with dual WiFi SSIDs and separate 
VLANs to allow 3rd parties to use your WAP as a WiFi hot-spot, as long as they 
already have a user account with the same ISP, or are willing to register and 
pay exorbitant fees (at least in the UK) for a few hours usage.  

I can see a possibility for this hot-spot functionality extending to offer 
domestic 5G aerial repeaters, but in the country side with miles of 'no-spots' 
this is not going to offer much geographic cover anyway.

-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 09:28:59AM +, Mick wrote

> The world is moving towards high speed wireless connectivity anyway,
> so more and more devices will not need a physical switch port or
> ethernet cables to gain access to the network.

  "High speed wireless" is going to be a big disappointment.  Due to
laws of physics, you need high frequencies for faster wireless speeds.
But higher frequencies have a lot less penetrating power.  They might
scream in a short range lab test, but in the real world, lower
frequencies actually perform better.  See
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/04/millimeter-wave-5g-will-never-scale-beyond-dense-urban-areas-t-mobile-says/
for a demo.  This is about cellphone frequencies, but the same laws of
physics apply.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Andrea Conti]

TIM has also been offering "experimental" native IPv6 to all 
PPPoE-connected customers for years [1]. It works, but they 
(intentionally?) made it less-than-useful by choosing to give out a 
dynamic /64.


andrea

[1] 
https://assistenzatecnica.tim.it/at/portals/assistenzatecnica.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=InternetBook=consumer_root=/AT_REPOSITORY/876181



On 28/11/19 03:46, Alessandro Barbieri wrote:
I can switch provider (currently with Vodafone) but in Italy only 
Fastweb has IPv6 (AFAIK) and it's not native but 6RD


Il Lun 25 Nov 2019, 15:54 Ralph Seichter > ha scritto:


https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html

This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 07:55:51PM +0100, Ralph Seichter wrote

> Gentoo users are often technically skilled and therefore in a position
> to make good use of IPv6. I think it would be beneficial to let ISPs
> and router manufacturers know that IPv6 is not some exotic luxury.

  Gentoo users are not the "target audience" for most consumer ISPs.
If 1% avoid the ISP due to no IPV6, no problem.  Techy users tend to
run servers, and many consumer ISPs consider it a bonus that those
customers avoid them.  My ISP has IPV6 available on VDSL, but I'm not a
gamer and don't run servers, so there's no benefit to me for the extra
hassle on my part.  I'm in my late 60's.  I figure that IPV4 will
probably last longer than I will.

-- 
Walter Dnes 
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Ralph Seichter]

* Ian Zimmerman:

> But what about connecting to the outside world? For that, the
> link-local address doesn't work.

It does work, actually. fe80::1 is a perfectly valid way to specify the
default gateway. Remember that NICs have several IPv6 addresses with
different scopes.

> No configuration needed for this ULA thing? How does it happen, then -
> is it implemented entirely in the kernel?

Before I try to come up with my own explanation, I suggest you search
for terms like Neighbor Discovery Protocol (NDP) and Stateless Address
Autoconfiguration (SLAAC). The latter, for example, is the reason why
DHCPv6 is often not necessary.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Alessandro Barbieri]

I can switch provider (currently with Vodafone) but in Italy only Fastweb
has IPv6 (AFAIK) and it's not native but 6RD

Il Lun 25 Nov 2019, 15:54 Ralph Seichter  ha scritto:

> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html
>
> This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
> point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
> move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
>
> -Ralph
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 12:36 PM Dale  wrote:
>> I've found that asking here is best.  If it wasn't for my post here, I
>> would have stuck with Linksys because it is what I've used in the past.
>> Thing is, a post here lead me to a better product, even tho it wasn't a
>> Linksys product.  It's one reason I post questions here quite often.  I
>> get more info from here than I could likely ever find elsewhere because
>> most people here post about their own experience not some theory.  You
>> should know, you post about yours quite often and it's generally a good
>> idea to give it some weight when deciding something.
>>
> Linksys had that one router eons ago that was capable of running linux
> (might have run it out of the box - I forget).  Back in the day there
> weren't many options and they were one of the better ones.
>
> They only got worse, and a lot of much better options have come out
> since then.  LOTS of better options.  There are ARM-based PCs designed
> to run pfsense and so on with multiple NICs.  Buffalo makes routers
> with DD-WRT pre-installed, and while I'd double check in the past they
> could all be trivially flashed to OpenWRT.
>
> I'd also seriously consider Ubiquiti.  An ER-X can be found in the $60
> range and supports routing at gigabit speeds.  It runs linux already
> out of the box with ssh/etc and a CLI, or a nice web GUI.  It looks
> like it isn't hard to flash OpenWRT on it as well though there seem to
> be some caveats (disclaimer: I've never tried it).
>
> There are a couple of good options.
>
> I'd seriously consider using something that does what you want out of
> the box before going the OpenWRT route.  I don't think EdgeOS is
> actually FOSS, but it is largely built on FOSS, so if it does what you
> want out of the box and is easy to maintain that is a win, and if at
> any point it doesn't get support you can then go the OpenWRT route.
>
> That said, I've run a router on OpenWRT for ages as well.  I think
> that is a bit more work without much gain, but you can do it.
>
> Oh, one thing I would avoid doing is running a bazillion services on
> your router.  Yes, if it is a linux/bsd box you can run whatever you
> want on it.  Yes, a lot of that stuff is already packaged and easy to
> install.  Just consider why you have a firewall in the first place (ie
> another layer of isolation), and that this is likely a device with
> minimum CPU/RAM/etc and whether you REALLY want to be hosting all this
> stuff on a box that is a serious PITA to backup/image or rescue if it
> doesn't boot up right.  Generally I don't host anything on a router
> that isn't directly related to its mission, so that could include
> updating a dynamic DNS address, serving DHCP, or maybe serving DNS.
> I've tried running OpenVPN and such on them and have found performance
> generally suffers for it.
>


Someone mentioned the Linksys I have is a somewhat crippled version or
something like that.  Still, it has worked for ages with zero problems. 
I think I had to reset it once to fix something.  Thing is, I've had to
reset my modem a couple times too.  I think during storms some noise
gets on the phone line, DSL here, and it screws it up somehow.  It's
rare tho.  Still, I've been happy with the thing even tho it is crippled
or something.

One thing I've learned in electronics, what is good this year may be
awful the next.  My First rig had a Abit mobo.  Shortly after that they
seem to have went downhill and then went out of business it seems.  My
current rig has a Gigabyte mobo, was a good board and brand when I
bought it.  Thing is, Gigabyte, the newer stuff, may be crap nowadays. 
Who knows.  Same with hard drives, one batch may be awesome, the next
may be a total disaster.  As you said, Linksys used to be a good brand. 
It seems TP-Link may have took a little out of that.  Likely some others
as well.  It's just the way it is nowadays with fast production and
lower quality.  One doesn't know tho until one asks.  ;-)

Given what I have now and that what I'm looking into seems to be a
better router, it will likely be a plug-n-play for me.  Once TP-Link
stops supporting it, then I may have to use Openwrt or something.  At
least I have some options and it will support the IPv6 stuff out of the
box.  I'm still not sure about my modem yet.  Either bridged mode or a
new one of those to I guess. 

Thanks for all the info. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Neil Bothwick]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:30:54 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:

> Generally I don't host anything on a router
> that isn't directly related to its mission, so that could include
> updating a dynamic DNS address, serving DHCP, or maybe serving DNS.

I don't even do that. I have dnsmasq, as used by DD-WRT and OpenWrt, set
up on two boxes on the network, but only running on one. That gives an
easy switchover in case of failure. Which reminds me, I really should set
up monit to do automatic failover on this.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The cow is nothing but a machine that makes grass fit for us people to
eat.


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Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Rich Freeman]

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 12:36 PM Dale  wrote:
>
> I've found that asking here is best.  If it wasn't for my post here, I
> would have stuck with Linksys because it is what I've used in the past.
> Thing is, a post here lead me to a better product, even tho it wasn't a
> Linksys product.  It's one reason I post questions here quite often.  I
> get more info from here than I could likely ever find elsewhere because
> most people here post about their own experience not some theory.  You
> should know, you post about yours quite often and it's generally a good
> idea to give it some weight when deciding something.
>

Linksys had that one router eons ago that was capable of running linux
(might have run it out of the box - I forget).  Back in the day there
weren't many options and they were one of the better ones.

They only got worse, and a lot of much better options have come out
since then.  LOTS of better options.  There are ARM-based PCs designed
to run pfsense and so on with multiple NICs.  Buffalo makes routers
with DD-WRT pre-installed, and while I'd double check in the past they
could all be trivially flashed to OpenWRT.

I'd also seriously consider Ubiquiti.  An ER-X can be found in the $60
range and supports routing at gigabit speeds.  It runs linux already
out of the box with ssh/etc and a CLI, or a nice web GUI.  It looks
like it isn't hard to flash OpenWRT on it as well though there seem to
be some caveats (disclaimer: I've never tried it).

There are a couple of good options.

I'd seriously consider using something that does what you want out of
the box before going the OpenWRT route.  I don't think EdgeOS is
actually FOSS, but it is largely built on FOSS, so if it does what you
want out of the box and is easy to maintain that is a win, and if at
any point it doesn't get support you can then go the OpenWRT route.

That said, I've run a router on OpenWRT for ages as well.  I think
that is a bit more work without much gain, but you can do it.

Oh, one thing I would avoid doing is running a bazillion services on
your router.  Yes, if it is a linux/bsd box you can run whatever you
want on it.  Yes, a lot of that stuff is already packaged and easy to
install.  Just consider why you have a firewall in the first place (ie
another layer of isolation), and that this is likely a device with
minimum CPU/RAM/etc and whether you REALLY want to be hosting all this
stuff on a box that is a serious PITA to backup/image or rescue if it
doesn't boot up right.  Generally I don't host anything on a router
that isn't directly related to its mission, so that could include
updating a dynamic DNS address, serving DHCP, or maybe serving DNS.
I've tried running OpenVPN and such on them and have found performance
generally suffers for it.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Ralph Seichter]

* Daniel Frey:

> I have exactly one choice for an ISP and I need a static IP. The ISP
> disables ipv6 for some reason when you have a static IP.

Like I said, the availability of "decent" ISPs varies by location, and
there are of course locations where one is basically screwed when it
comes to IPv6, even in November 2019.

I have no intention whatsoever to chide Gentoo users who cannot have
IPv6 due to their ISP. I only meant to mention that now is a good time
to (a) consider IPv6 if you can get it, (b) consider IPv6 if you thought
about purchasing a new router during Black Friday or Christmas sales
offers, (c) let your ISP know that you are interested in IPv6, and
perhaps consider choosing a different ISP with more modern service (if
you realistically can do that).

We're not exactly swimming in ISPs where I live, and I have been biting
ISP ankles for more than a decade to make my requirements known. Things
have improved, luckily, but they are far from perfect. I am simply
unwilling to pay for additional single IPv4 addresses while whole IPv6
subnets are available in abundance.

According to RIPE, almost every member (LIR) qualifies for a /29 subnet
right away, no questions asked, so handing out /48 or at least /56
subnets to customers should be a no-brainer.

Gentoo users are often technically skilled and therefore in a position
to make good use of IPv6. I think it would be beneficial to let ISPs and
router manufacturers know that IPv6 is not some exotic luxury.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 01:51:44 GMT Dale wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale  wrote:
 I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
 looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
 find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
 there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
 something else maybe?
> It is called the OEM's website where technical specs are provided for each 
> model.
>
> It is also called Wikipedia.  There may be a page where all models of a 
> particular manufacturer are listed in some table, explaining their 
> functionality.

I went to the OEMs website but they don't always give info in a way that
makes sense to me.  I learned more from the Openwrt site than I did the
OEMs.  OEMs are usually full of fluff and buzzwords. 

I used to go to wikipedia but after being misled several times, I no
longer use it if I can avoid it.  I'd be more likely to believe comments
in the review section of a product than wikipedia.


> There are also webpages with reviews - but careful with those.  Most are 
> nothing more than a shill for Amazon or some such shop, rather than an honest 
> technical appraisal.  Sometimes youtube may have an unwrapping video, or demo 
> of configuring a particular router - if you are interested to know what they 
> look like in more detail.
>
> There are specialist websites like:
>
> https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/
>
> as well as open source firmware projects like OpenWRT/DD-WRT etc., with 
> useful 
> blogs and forums to peruse, along with reports for suitable hardware.
>
> Online shops are the last place to visit, *after* you have concluded which 
> router is best for you, to see if you can afford the price.  Their websites 
> may have incorrect technical information, out of date specifications and 
> irrelevant (annoying) marketing speak to attract consumers.  Many are just 
> box-shifters and wouldn't be able to tell you what's in the box you ordered 
> anyway: "errm ... whatever they're shipping from China these days".  o_O
>

I've found that asking here is best.  If it wasn't for my post here, I
would have stuck with Linksys because it is what I've used in the past. 
Thing is, a post here lead me to a better product, even tho it wasn't a
Linksys product.  It's one reason I post questions here quite often.  I
get more info from here than I could likely ever find elsewhere because
most people here post about their own experience not some theory.  You
should know, you post about yours quite often and it's generally a good
idea to give it some weight when deciding something. 


>>> IMO there are three reasonable approaches you can take towards getting
>>> a router you won't curse yourself for buying a year from now:
>>>
>>> 1.  DIY.  PC or other general-purpose computing hardware with multiple
>>> NICs.  There are SBCs that work well for this.  You can run pfsense or
>>> some other router-oriented distro/software/wrappers.  Or you can just
>>> roll your own with netfilter and such.  Max flexibility, but also max
>>> fuss.  Unless you use a SBC you'll also be paying a price in
>>> electricity.  Don't underestimate how much you pay for any x86-based
>>> system that runs 24x7 - especially anything old you have lying around.
>> I remember how my old rig pulled power.  It pulled like 400 watts or so
>> idle.  Of course, it was lacking in power so when compiling, there
>> wasn't a lot of difference really.  In the winter, I rarely needed a
>> heater.  Its constant heat output kept this bedroom comfy.  No real need
>> for a heater.  It's one reason I want to avoid this option.  Mostly, I
>> want something I'll get many years of service from and everything work
>> well, wired or wireless now that I have a cell phone and printer that
>> needs it.  My current router pulls like 10 watts or something. 
>> Considering I run electric heat and such, it's a rounding error for me. 
>> Heck, my main puter is too.  It pulls like 180 watts which includes
>> everything, modem, router, monitor and the rig itself. 
>>
>> The positive part tho for option 1, if another port is needed, just add
>> a network card and it's done.  With DHCP and friends, it will likely
>> just work.  That's something you can't do with a store bought router. 
>> Whatever it comes with, that's what you got.  I've never needed more
>> than the 4 most come with tho.  My puter uses one, printer another and
>> cell phone.  I guess I have one left still. 
> Every additional network card (PCI or USB) will also incur additional cost 
> and 
> soon you could run out of MoBo slots.  It makes more sense to buy a dedicated 
> switch instead, with as many ports as you think you will need to use in the 
> future.  Old routers can also be used as dumb switches, after you disable 
> their DNS/DHCP/PPP, etc.  The world is moving towards high speed wireless 
> connectivity 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Daniel Frey]

On 2019-11-26 15:41, Ralph Seichter wrote:

* Daniel Frey:


Can't do anything, ipv6 is completely disabled (removed from kernel
config.)


A search for "linux kernel enable ipv6" just returned more than 1.7
million results.


Even if I recompile my custom kernels it won't work.




Current ISP will not issue any ipv6 if an ipv4 static is required.


My current ISP offers native IPv6 and has been doing so for years.
While choice varies across different countries, IPv6 availability has
increased considerably over the last 10 years, which is why SiXXs.net
has discontinued services[1] mid 2017. Even a small amount of searching
should turn up a decent ISP in most industrialized countries.


That's great! Except I'm obviously not living where you are. I have 
exactly one choice for an ISP and I need a static IP. The ISP disables 
ipv6 for some reason when you have a static IP.


Housing is terribly expensive here and I'm not moving to get ipv6, 
that's just stupid.



Seriously, IPv4 may appear to work "just fine" for you, but there is a
lot of nasty stuff like NAT going on under the hood. IPv6 means a lot
less hassle if you have a decent ISP and a halfway modern router.


They do have ipv6 on residential accounts and their implementation has 
caused many problems with devices. This was years ago. I would hope 
they've fixed all the network delays that were present with a dual-stack 
configuration - one of the major issues is that a single DNS lookup 
would take 90 seconds to return a result. Only way to fix it was to 
disable ipv6 in their router.


When you phoned in to report a problem, they'd say "looks good on our 
end" and close the ticket. I disabled ipv6 that day, but when I got a 
static IP I found out I couldn't get ipv6 anyway.


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Mick]

On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 01:51:44 GMT Dale wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale  wrote:
> >> I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
> >> looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
> >> find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
> >> there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
> >> something else maybe?

It is called the OEM's website where technical specs are provided for each 
model.

It is also called Wikipedia.  There may be a page where all models of a 
particular manufacturer are listed in some table, explaining their 
functionality.

There are also webpages with reviews - but careful with those.  Most are 
nothing more than a shill for Amazon or some such shop, rather than an honest 
technical appraisal.  Sometimes youtube may have an unwrapping video, or demo 
of configuring a particular router - if you are interested to know what they 
look like in more detail.

There are specialist websites like:

https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/

as well as open source firmware projects like OpenWRT/DD-WRT etc., with useful 
blogs and forums to peruse, along with reports for suitable hardware.

Online shops are the last place to visit, *after* you have concluded which 
router is best for you, to see if you can afford the price.  Their websites 
may have incorrect technical information, out of date specifications and 
irrelevant (annoying) marketing speak to attract consumers.  Many are just 
box-shifters and wouldn't be able to tell you what's in the box you ordered 
anyway: "errm ... whatever they're shipping from China these days".  o_O


> > IMO there are three reasonable approaches you can take towards getting
> > a router you won't curse yourself for buying a year from now:
> > 
> > 1.  DIY.  PC or other general-purpose computing hardware with multiple
> > NICs.  There are SBCs that work well for this.  You can run pfsense or
> > some other router-oriented distro/software/wrappers.  Or you can just
> > roll your own with netfilter and such.  Max flexibility, but also max
> > fuss.  Unless you use a SBC you'll also be paying a price in
> > electricity.  Don't underestimate how much you pay for any x86-based
> > system that runs 24x7 - especially anything old you have lying around.
> 
> I remember how my old rig pulled power.  It pulled like 400 watts or so
> idle.  Of course, it was lacking in power so when compiling, there
> wasn't a lot of difference really.  In the winter, I rarely needed a
> heater.  Its constant heat output kept this bedroom comfy.  No real need
> for a heater.  It's one reason I want to avoid this option.  Mostly, I
> want something I'll get many years of service from and everything work
> well, wired or wireless now that I have a cell phone and printer that
> needs it.  My current router pulls like 10 watts or something. 
> Considering I run electric heat and such, it's a rounding error for me. 
> Heck, my main puter is too.  It pulls like 180 watts which includes
> everything, modem, router, monitor and the rig itself. 
> 
> The positive part tho for option 1, if another port is needed, just add
> a network card and it's done.  With DHCP and friends, it will likely
> just work.  That's something you can't do with a store bought router. 
> Whatever it comes with, that's what you got.  I've never needed more
> than the 4 most come with tho.  My puter uses one, printer another and
> cell phone.  I guess I have one left still. 

Every additional network card (PCI or USB) will also incur additional cost and 
soon you could run out of MoBo slots.  It makes more sense to buy a dedicated 
switch instead, with as many ports as you think you will need to use in the 
future.  Old routers can also be used as dumb switches, after you disable 
their DNS/DHCP/PPP, etc.  The world is moving towards high speed wireless 
connectivity anyway, so more and more devices will not need a physical switch 
port or ethernet cables to gain access to the network.


> > 2.  OpenWRT/DD-WRT/etc.  Again it is a bit fussy but generally way
> > less so than going pure DIY unless you're running pfsense or some
> > other appliance-oriented distro.  If you go this route then definitely
> > check for recommendations on hardware that is known to work WELL.
> > Some stuff technically works but can be very prone to having to play
> > around with JTAG and such if you make the slightest mistake.  You'll
> > probably spend an extra $20 on hardware you won't regret buying - do
> > it.

+1

Trying to save a few pennies could result in being lumbered with suboptimal 
hardware.


> That's what I'm wanting as a option.  I may just use the firmware that
> comes with the thing for a good while.  Later on tho, if needed, I may
> switch to Openwrt or some other option that may work better.  It's a
> option I'd like to have if possible. 

This is generally a good option because OEMs hardly ever 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Tamer Higazi]

In europe it's a bit different.
My gentoo client runs in dual stack mode so my server does as well.

I have ipv4 and ipv6 enabled and get 2 ip addresses from my ISP.

of course i have 2 firewall rules, iptables and ip6tables. But why not.

works out of the box.



On 2019-11-27 01:09, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 6:41 PM Ralph Seichter  wrote:

My current ISP offers native IPv6 and has been doing so for years.
While choice varies across different countries, IPv6 availability has
increased considerably over the last 10 years, which is why SiXXs.net
has discontinued services[1] mid 2017. Even a small amount of searching
should turn up a decent ISP in most industrialized countries.


Uh, at least in the US most ISPs serve a particular geographic area,
and most areas have 1-2 to choose from.  Well, unless you want to pay
to actually run a dedicated line to your house.  So either you deal
with the consumer-oriented services available in your area, or you
move to an area that has better options.  I can't imagine that most
people would move for IPv6.

I just hope the local telecoms support IPv6 properly before they go so
far as to start doing carrier-grade NAT...

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale  wrote:
>> I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
>> looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
>> find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
>> there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
>> something else maybe?
>>
> IMO there are three reasonable approaches you can take towards getting
> a router you won't curse yourself for buying a year from now:
>
> 1.  DIY.  PC or other general-purpose computing hardware with multiple
> NICs.  There are SBCs that work well for this.  You can run pfsense or
> some other router-oriented distro/software/wrappers.  Or you can just
> roll your own with netfilter and such.  Max flexibility, but also max
> fuss.  Unless you use a SBC you'll also be paying a price in
> electricity.  Don't underestimate how much you pay for any x86-based
> system that runs 24x7 - especially anything old you have lying around.

I remember how my old rig pulled power.  It pulled like 400 watts or so
idle.  Of course, it was lacking in power so when compiling, there
wasn't a lot of difference really.  In the winter, I rarely needed a
heater.  Its constant heat output kept this bedroom comfy.  No real need
for a heater.  It's one reason I want to avoid this option.  Mostly, I
want something I'll get many years of service from and everything work
well, wired or wireless now that I have a cell phone and printer that
needs it.  My current router pulls like 10 watts or something. 
Considering I run electric heat and such, it's a rounding error for me. 
Heck, my main puter is too.  It pulls like 180 watts which includes
everything, modem, router, monitor and the rig itself. 

The positive part tho for option 1, if another port is needed, just add
a network card and it's done.  With DHCP and friends, it will likely
just work.  That's something you can't do with a store bought router. 
Whatever it comes with, that's what you got.  I've never needed more
than the 4 most come with tho.  My puter uses one, printer another and
cell phone.  I guess I have one left still. 


> 2.  OpenWRT/DD-WRT/etc.  Again it is a bit fussy but generally way
> less so than going pure DIY unless you're running pfsense or some
> other appliance-oriented distro.  If you go this route then definitely
> check for recommendations on hardware that is known to work WELL.
> Some stuff technically works but can be very prone to having to play
> around with JTAG and such if you make the slightest mistake.  You'll
> probably spend an extra $20 on hardware you won't regret buying - do
> it.


That's what I'm wanting as a option.  I may just use the firmware that
comes with the thing for a good while.  Later on tho, if needed, I may
switch to Openwrt or some other option that may work better.  It's a
option I'd like to have if possible. 


> 3.  Something commercial that isn't terrible.  There are various
> options, but everybody always points to Ubiquiti and I'm mostly happy
> with them.  If you want something that is more gui-based I'd go with
> their Unifi line.  I'd avoid Amplifi as it is more consumer-oriented
> and you'll end up being frustrated with it.  EdgeOS is getting closer
> to something like OpenWRT - it runs linux and you can get a shell and
> mess around with the CLI.  However, while the EdgeOS routing options
> are great they aren't so good with WiFi and EdgeOS and Unifi don't
> interoperate all that well (not impossible, but they don't really talk
> to each other so you have to maintain two configs).  I also really
> dislike that the EdgeOS management software is only supplied as a
> docker image, which is a pain if you're not using docker (one of these
> days I'll have to get it working with my bridge interface as it always
> tries to create its own and ends up having no physical network
> access).  The Unifi controller software is packaged for a couple of
> distros which makes it much more flexible to deploy (and you can use
> it on docker if you wish).
>
> Personally I'm running EdgeOS on my router and Unifi on everything
> else.  If I could go back I might have gone with Unifi on the gateway
> but it does bug me that it is so much more expensive and does the same
> thing.  If I had it then end-to-end VLAN/etc would be much more
> practical, though I'd need a pile of managed switches to make it work
> well.
>
> I've run all three options at various points.  Unless your needs are
> special I think there is value in just going with #3.  It just runs
> itself for the most part, and if you want multiple access points or
> anything like that the network basically runs itself.  I just plug in
> new hardware and then on the controller software it shows up, and one
> click provisions it which configures it to fit in with all my global
> settings.
>


This is why I might buy one compatible with Openwrt but wait until the
wireless stuff gets sorted out.  Like I said 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale  wrote:
>
> I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
> looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
> find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
> there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
> something else maybe?
>

IMO there are three reasonable approaches you can take towards getting
a router you won't curse yourself for buying a year from now:

1.  DIY.  PC or other general-purpose computing hardware with multiple
NICs.  There are SBCs that work well for this.  You can run pfsense or
some other router-oriented distro/software/wrappers.  Or you can just
roll your own with netfilter and such.  Max flexibility, but also max
fuss.  Unless you use a SBC you'll also be paying a price in
electricity.  Don't underestimate how much you pay for any x86-based
system that runs 24x7 - especially anything old you have lying around.

2.  OpenWRT/DD-WRT/etc.  Again it is a bit fussy but generally way
less so than going pure DIY unless you're running pfsense or some
other appliance-oriented distro.  If you go this route then definitely
check for recommendations on hardware that is known to work WELL.
Some stuff technically works but can be very prone to having to play
around with JTAG and such if you make the slightest mistake.  You'll
probably spend an extra $20 on hardware you won't regret buying - do
it.

3.  Something commercial that isn't terrible.  There are various
options, but everybody always points to Ubiquiti and I'm mostly happy
with them.  If you want something that is more gui-based I'd go with
their Unifi line.  I'd avoid Amplifi as it is more consumer-oriented
and you'll end up being frustrated with it.  EdgeOS is getting closer
to something like OpenWRT - it runs linux and you can get a shell and
mess around with the CLI.  However, while the EdgeOS routing options
are great they aren't so good with WiFi and EdgeOS and Unifi don't
interoperate all that well (not impossible, but they don't really talk
to each other so you have to maintain two configs).  I also really
dislike that the EdgeOS management software is only supplied as a
docker image, which is a pain if you're not using docker (one of these
days I'll have to get it working with my bridge interface as it always
tries to create its own and ends up having no physical network
access).  The Unifi controller software is packaged for a couple of
distros which makes it much more flexible to deploy (and you can use
it on docker if you wish).

Personally I'm running EdgeOS on my router and Unifi on everything
else.  If I could go back I might have gone with Unifi on the gateway
but it does bug me that it is so much more expensive and does the same
thing.  If I had it then end-to-end VLAN/etc would be much more
practical, though I'd need a pile of managed switches to make it work
well.

I've run all three options at various points.  Unless your needs are
special I think there is value in just going with #3.  It just runs
itself for the most part, and if you want multiple access points or
anything like that the network basically runs itself.  I just plug in
new hardware and then on the controller software it shows up, and one
click provisions it which configures it to fit in with all my global
settings.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 23:14:32 GMT Dale wrote:
>
> May be worth buying something which is (currently) supported by OpenWRT.  
> Their website and wiki make various hardware recommendations.
>
> https://openwrt.org/toh/views/toh_available_864
>
>
> There are also a number of Linux firewall projects if you want to repurpose 
> an 
> old PC with more than one NIC and use that as a firewall/router.


I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
something else maybe? 

I went to your link for Openwrt.  I found Linksys E2500 in the list. 
When I go search for one, ebay etc, I then find E2500-NP with N600 also
mentioned.  Some even say E2500 and E2500-NP in the same description.  I
think the N600 has something to do with the wireless stuff.  If I want
to use Openwrt, does the -NP make any difference?  The link doesn't
mention the -NP version.  The N600 affect anything?  I'm trying to get a
dual band version since my current cell phone supports both I think but
if I get a new cell phone, it may want the other band, N I think it is
called.  :/

One thing I like about the old blue thing.  It has quite a few LEDs on
the front.  It's easy for me to see when data is moving even from across
the room.  The newer black ones have lights but only on the back from
what I can see.  I'm going to miss those LEDs.  :-( 

So far, I like the E2500 and found a couple at a good price, on ebay but
I think they are new.  Also want to research the wireless range.  I
ended up having to move my printer closer to the router, in the kitchen
on top of the microwave at the moment.  The signal just wouldn't make it
to the far room all the time.  I saw one, Openwrt doesn't support it,
that can go several hundred feet.  I haven't looked at the E2500, yet. 

Oh, for anyone else wanting to know of their Linksys router supports
IPv6.  On the menu, select Setup, then look for IPv6 Setup between Basic
Setup and DDNS in the lower tabs.  If it doesn't show up there, it
doesn't support IPv6.  I ran up on that somewhere.  Maybe that will help
someone else who knows as little as I do about this thing.  LOL 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Mick]

On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 23:14:32 GMT Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 17:58:46 GMT Dale wrote:
> >> I enter my username/password on the modem so I'm pretty sure it is
> >> processing the packets and such.  There is no mention of anything IPv4
> >> or v6.  I'd suspect it is v4 only, since it works it has to support v4.
> >> lol  So, old modem may have to be bricked at some point.
> > 
> > Not necessarily.  If your modem is like the one described here, follow the
> > guidance provided to set it in bridged mode:
> > 
> > https://www.dslreports.com/faq/6405
> > 
> > In bridged mode it will pass all ethernet packets to your router and your
> > router will be able to obtain a public IP address with its dhcp client
> > directly from your ISP.  Of course, to be able to connect to your ISP you
> > will now need to enter your ADSL account username/passwd into the PPPoE
> > (or PPPoA) client in your router's management interface.  DHCP and DNS
> > server functionality will also be provided by your router for all devices
> > on your LAN.  The modem will be just a dumb box between the ISP and your
> > router.
> > 
> > In the unlikely chance your router does not possess such PPP
> > authentication
> > functionality, you will have to replace your router with one which does
> > and at the same time look to buy one which offers IPv6 too.
> 
> I'm almost certain my router can do this.  I've done it before but with
> a wired only version.  I think they have the same basic firmware since
> all the screens look alike, except for the wireless part being added. 
> Thing is, I don't think the router has IPv6 capabilities.  It's a WRT54G
> version 6 that I use now.  I switched to a wireless one when I got my
> cell phone which needs wi-fi.  The old wired router was the same model
> less the G on the end if I recall correctly.  I suspect a new router is
> due, age and lack of firmware updates if nothing else.  I think the
> firmware is about a decade old. 
> 
> >> I do have a
> >> newer gray modem that came with the DSL kit.  I stopped using it because
> >> it got so warm.  The old black box one runs cool and it has more vent
> >> holes.  I may have to check and see if the gray one supports v6 but it
> >> is fairly old too.  It's at least 10 years old.
> > 
> > ADSL ATM encapsulation technology has not changed for many years now.  I
> > don't think age (or colour) matters really, unless you can see smoke
> > coming out of it when you power it up!  LOL!
> 
> I mention the color because some may remember the old thing.  When I see
> a black Westell, I know what it is.  Heck, I found most of the ones I
> got at a thrift store for $6.00.  lol  I can generally recognize the
> gray ones BUT some look a lot alike but are different on the inside. 
> 
> >> My router also makes no mention of IPv4 or v6.  I suspect it is in the
> >> same boat as the modem, it doesn't support it and doesn't have the
> >> option to either.  I did go to the Linksys website and look for a
> >> firmware upgrade, nothing available, not even a old one.
> > 
> > You haven't provided any model names[1] so it's difficult to google things
> > for you, or suggest solutions.  Have a look here to see if your router is
> > still supported by this open source Linux firmware:
> > 
> > https://openwrt.org/supported_devices
> > 
> > https://openwrt.org/toh/start
> > 
> > Other alternative(s):
> > 
> > http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato
> 
> Model is above.  I've read about openwrt but always been nervous about
> trying it.  I've read where some have bricked their router.  You know me
> and my luck.  If it can be bricked, I can do it, real good.  LOL  ;-D  I
> tried to find out how much memory and such my old router has but I can't
> find it anywhere.  It may not show it so I may end up googling for it
> online.  See if I can find a spec sheet somewhere. 

Ahh ... OK.  Try to flog it on flea-bay and buy something more powerful.  
WRT54G v5/6 routers were crippled by Linksys compared to previous models.  
They come with minuscules amounts of RAM - 8MB, half that of previous models 
and also half the flash disk - 2MB: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series#Hardware_revisions

The only firmware which will run on them is DD-WRT, but I'm not sure it's 
worth the hassle.  Get rid of it and buy a newer device with more flash and 
RAM on it.

https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Linksys_WRT54G_v5.0_%26_5.1_%26_6.0


> I just did one quick search for 'wireless router IPv6' and didn't see a
> lot.  However, it may not be finding them all since it may not be in the
> description since new ones come with it by default.  In other words,
> they don't include IPv6 in the description for it to find it.  I'll do
> some more searching but I'll ask here before I buy one unless it
> specifically says it supports IPv6 somewhere.  No point buying one just
> like I got now.  :/ 
> 
> I just don't want to wait until my internet stops working right to
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 6:41 PM Ralph Seichter  wrote:
>
> My current ISP offers native IPv6 and has been doing so for years.
> While choice varies across different countries, IPv6 availability has
> increased considerably over the last 10 years, which is why SiXXs.net
> has discontinued services[1] mid 2017. Even a small amount of searching
> should turn up a decent ISP in most industrialized countries.
>

Uh, at least in the US most ISPs serve a particular geographic area,
and most areas have 1-2 to choose from.  Well, unless you want to pay
to actually run a dedicated line to your house.  So either you deal
with the consumer-oriented services available in your area, or you
move to an area that has better options.  I can't imagine that most
people would move for IPv6.

I just hope the local telecoms support IPv6 properly before they go so
far as to start doing carrier-grade NAT...

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Ralph Seichter]

* Adam Carter:

> when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become directly routable from
> the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.

Even pretty anemic hardware can handle the demands of an IPv6 firewall,
for example using iptables/nftables. The demands of IPV6-related
processing should actually be a bit lower than for IPv4, because IPv6
does not need NAT.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Ralph Seichter]

* Daniel Frey:

> Can't do anything, ipv6 is completely disabled (removed from kernel
> config.)

A search for "linux kernel enable ipv6" just returned more than 1.7
million results.

> Current ISP will not issue any ipv6 if an ipv4 static is required.

My current ISP offers native IPv6 and has been doing so for years.
While choice varies across different countries, IPv6 availability has
increased considerably over the last 10 years, which is why SiXXs.net
has discontinued services[1] mid 2017. Even a small amount of searching
should turn up a decent ISP in most industrialized countries.

[1] https://www.sixxs.net/sunset/

> ipv4 works just fine

Maybe our ancestors should never have come down from the trees. Perhaps
even leaving the oceans was a dumb move. ;-)

Seriously, IPv4 may appear to work "just fine" for you, but there is a
lot of nasty stuff like NAT going on under the hood. IPv6 means a lot
less hassle if you have a decent ISP and a halfway modern router.

It will take a while longer before the lack of free IPv4 addresses
becomes too profound to ignore even for private users, but users with
more advanced needs already feel the squeeze. My recommendation is to
pick a proper ISP and select a proper router when the current one has
lived out its life (or maybe a firmware update suffices). The higher the
customers' demand for IPv6, the more incentive there is for ISPs and
router manufacturers to get cracking.

-Ralph

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 17:58:46 GMT Dale wrote:
>
>> I enter my username/password on the modem so I'm pretty sure it is
>> processing the packets and such.  There is no mention of anything IPv4
>> or v6.  I'd suspect it is v4 only, since it works it has to support v4. 
>> lol  So, old modem may have to be bricked at some point.
> Not necessarily.  If your modem is like the one described here, follow the 
> guidance provided to set it in bridged mode:
>
> https://www.dslreports.com/faq/6405
>
> In bridged mode it will pass all ethernet packets to your router and your 
> router will be able to obtain a public IP address with its dhcp client 
> directly from your ISP.  Of course, to be able to connect to your ISP you 
> will 
> now need to enter your ADSL account username/passwd into the PPPoE (or PPPoA) 
> client in your router's management interface.  DHCP and DNS server 
> functionality will also be provided by your router for all devices on your 
> LAN.  The modem will be just a dumb box between the ISP and your router.
>
> In the unlikely chance your router does not possess such PPP authentication 
> functionality, you will have to replace your router with one which does and 
> at 
> the same time look to buy one which offers IPv6 too.
>
>

I'm almost certain my router can do this.  I've done it before but with
a wired only version.  I think they have the same basic firmware since
all the screens look alike, except for the wireless part being added. 
Thing is, I don't think the router has IPv6 capabilities.  It's a WRT54G
version 6 that I use now.  I switched to a wireless one when I got my
cell phone which needs wi-fi.  The old wired router was the same model
less the G on the end if I recall correctly.  I suspect a new router is
due, age and lack of firmware updates if nothing else.  I think the
firmware is about a decade old. 


>> I do have a
>> newer gray modem that came with the DSL kit.  I stopped using it because
>> it got so warm.  The old black box one runs cool and it has more vent
>> holes.  I may have to check and see if the gray one supports v6 but it
>> is fairly old too.  It's at least 10 years old. 
> ADSL ATM encapsulation technology has not changed for many years now.  I 
> don't 
> think age (or colour) matters really, unless you can see smoke coming out of 
> it when you power it up!  LOL!
>

I mention the color because some may remember the old thing.  When I see
a black Westell, I know what it is.  Heck, I found most of the ones I
got at a thrift store for $6.00.  lol  I can generally recognize the
gray ones BUT some look a lot alike but are different on the inside. 

>> My router also makes no mention of IPv4 or v6.  I suspect it is in the
>> same boat as the modem, it doesn't support it and doesn't have the
>> option to either.  I did go to the Linksys website and look for a
>> firmware upgrade, nothing available, not even a old one. 
> You haven't provided any model names[1] so it's difficult to google things 
> for 
> you, or suggest solutions.  Have a look here to see if your router is still 
> supported by this open source Linux firmware:
>
> https://openwrt.org/supported_devices
>
> https://openwrt.org/toh/start
>
> Other alternative(s):
>
> http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato
>

Model is above.  I've read about openwrt but always been nervous about
trying it.  I've read where some have bricked their router.  You know me
and my luck.  If it can be bricked, I can do it, real good.  LOL  ;-D  I
tried to find out how much memory and such my old router has but I can't
find it anywhere.  It may not show it so I may end up googling for it
online.  See if I can find a spec sheet somewhere. 

>> I did some searching for routers with ipv6 support.  I'm not finding a
>> lot.  Is this something I need to worry about yet?  I mean, is there a
>> lot of IPv6 equipment even available right now? 
> You may have not tried hard enough.  There were a thing even 8 years ago:
>
> https://www.cnet.com/news/top-5-ipv6-ready-wireless-routers/
>
> Answering your question, yes, today all modern routers and any ADSL modems 
> with routing capability come as dual IPv4/6 stack.
>
>
> [1] True story:  Years ago a friend started work in a car accessories and 
> spare parts shop.  Customer walks in looking for spark plugs, where upon my 
> friend asks for his make and model.  Customer replies:  "Dunno, it's a blue 
> car ..."  O_O
>


I just did one quick search for 'wireless router IPv6' and didn't see a
lot.  However, it may not be finding them all since it may not be in the
description since new ones come with it by default.  In other words,
they don't include IPv6 in the description for it to find it.  I'll do
some more searching but I'll ask here before I buy one unless it
specifically says it supports IPv6 somewhere.  No point buying one just
like I got now.  :/ 

I just don't want to wait until my internet stops working right to
upgrade this stuff. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Mick]

On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 17:58:46 GMT Dale wrote:

> I enter my username/password on the modem so I'm pretty sure it is
> processing the packets and such.  There is no mention of anything IPv4
> or v6.  I'd suspect it is v4 only, since it works it has to support v4. 
> lol  So, old modem may have to be bricked at some point.

Not necessarily.  If your modem is like the one described here, follow the 
guidance provided to set it in bridged mode:

https://www.dslreports.com/faq/6405

In bridged mode it will pass all ethernet packets to your router and your 
router will be able to obtain a public IP address with its dhcp client 
directly from your ISP.  Of course, to be able to connect to your ISP you will 
now need to enter your ADSL account username/passwd into the PPPoE (or PPPoA) 
client in your router's management interface.  DHCP and DNS server 
functionality will also be provided by your router for all devices on your 
LAN.  The modem will be just a dumb box between the ISP and your router.

In the unlikely chance your router does not possess such PPP authentication 
functionality, you will have to replace your router with one which does and at 
the same time look to buy one which offers IPv6 too.


> I do have a
> newer gray modem that came with the DSL kit.  I stopped using it because
> it got so warm.  The old black box one runs cool and it has more vent
> holes.  I may have to check and see if the gray one supports v6 but it
> is fairly old too.  It's at least 10 years old. 

ADSL ATM encapsulation technology has not changed for many years now.  I don't 
think age (or colour) matters really, unless you can see smoke coming out of 
it when you power it up!  LOL!


> My router also makes no mention of IPv4 or v6.  I suspect it is in the
> same boat as the modem, it doesn't support it and doesn't have the
> option to either.  I did go to the Linksys website and look for a
> firmware upgrade, nothing available, not even a old one. 

You haven't provided any model names[1] so it's difficult to google things for 
you, or suggest solutions.  Have a look here to see if your router is still 
supported by this open source Linux firmware:

https://openwrt.org/supported_devices

https://openwrt.org/toh/start

Other alternative(s):

http://www.polarcloud.com/tomato


> I did some searching for routers with ipv6 support.  I'm not finding a
> lot.  Is this something I need to worry about yet?  I mean, is there a
> lot of IPv6 equipment even available right now? 

You may have not tried hard enough.  There were a thing even 8 years ago:

https://www.cnet.com/news/top-5-ipv6-ready-wireless-routers/

Answering your question, yes, today all modern routers and any ADSL modems 
with routing capability come as dual IPv4/6 stack.


[1] True story:  Years ago a friend started work in a car accessories and 
spare parts shop.  Customer walks in looking for spark plugs, where upon my 
friend asks for his make and model.  Customer replies:  "Dunno, it's a blue 
car ..."  O_O

-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Daniel Frey]

On 2019-11-25 06:53, Ralph Seichter wrote:

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html

This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).

-Ralph



Can't do anything, ipv6 is completely disabled (removed from kernel 
config.) Current ISP will not issue any ipv6 if an ipv4 static is required.


ipv4 works just fine

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 15:16:24 GMT Dale wrote:
>> Adam Carter wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:53 AM Ralph Seichter >>
>>> > wrote:
>>> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712
>>> .html
>>> 
>>> This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
>>> point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
>>> move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
>>>
>>> Turning on ipv6 has been on my agenda for a while, but I will need to
>>> setup a firewall. Currently i have a single ipv4 NAT box with some
>>> port forwards. However, when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become
>>> directly routable from the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.
>> I have a question about this.  I've read about this for ages and sort of
>> get the idea, running out of numbers basically.  There's two questions
>> that I can't answer tho.  I have a old Linksys router, the old blue
>> thing that is so common.  Would I have to buy a new router?  
> Yes.  You will need a router which has an IPv6 network stack on it, besides 
> the legacy IPv4 network stack, to be able to route IPv6 addresses directly 
> from your LAN.
>
> Depending on how useful your ISP is, they may offer IPv6 tunneling over IPv4. 
>  
> You connect to their gateway/proxy over IPv4 as you do now with your existing 
> router, but route through the IPv4 tunnel your IPv6 connections.  Their 
> gateway will act as an endpoint for your IPv4 tunnel and forward your IPv6 
> packets to the IPv6 interwebs.  It is likely they will only do this after 
> they 
> have a good sniff at them, but in this age of universal surveillance such an 
> activity won't be something surprising.
>
>
>> I also have
>> a older DSL modem, it's a old Westell black box.  Would this require a
>> newer modem as well?  
> If this is an ADSL modem only (i.e. no PPP negotiation or NAT'ing - a.k.a. 
> 'Fully Bridged Mode') then it is using ATM encapsulation.  IPv4 or IPv6 
> packets from your LAN will be encapsulated into ATM frames by your modem and 
> sent to the telephone exchange over copper wires.  There is no need to change 
> your modem in this case.
>
> However, if your modem is operating in a 'Half-Bridged mode' then it is 
> essentially performing IP masquerading plus ATM encapsulation.  In this case 
> it is routing ethernet - it will have to be able to manage IPv6 packets.  An 
> old (legacy) router will only have IPv4 stack and the previous comments 
> apply.  
> You could always set the modem in fully bridged mode, after you connect to 
> its 
> management interface, and thereafter use your router to perform PPP 
> authentication with your ISP.  In fully bridged mode you won't need to change 
> your modem.
>
>
>> I'm thinking those boxes would have to have
>> software at least that would support the newer addresses but nothing
>> I've read really answers those questions.  I don't know if they even
>> update software on those old things. 
>>
>> Thoughts??
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> You need to google for alternative linux based firmware/software for your 
> router and modem make and model.  However, if these are really old devices, 
> then their chipsets and RAM may not be adequate to allow them to run dual 
> network stacks without grinding to a halt.  If the OEMs never provided IPv6 
> capability, for these devices it could well be the case the hardware is not 
> capable of carrying the processing load.  


I enter my username/password on the modem so I'm pretty sure it is
processing the packets and such.  There is no mention of anything IPv4
or v6.  I'd suspect it is v4 only, since it works it has to support v4. 
lol  So, old modem may have to be bricked at some point.  I do have a
newer gray modem that came with the DSL kit.  I stopped using it because
it got so warm.  The old black box one runs cool and it has more vent
holes.  I may have to check and see if the gray one supports v6 but it
is fairly old too.  It's at least 10 years old. 

My router also makes no mention of IPv4 or v6.  I suspect it is in the
same boat as the modem, it doesn't support it and doesn't have the
option to either.  I did go to the Linksys website and look for a
firmware upgrade, nothing available, not even a old one. 

I did some searching for routers with ipv6 support.  I'm not finding a
lot.  Is this something I need to worry about yet?  I mean, is there a
lot of IPv6 equipment even available right now? 

Thanks to all for the info.  Both had good info that helped.  Water
isn't quite as muddy as it was.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Alan Grimes]

Dale wrote:
> I have a question about this.  I've read about this for ages and sort
> of get the idea, running out of numbers basically.  There's two
> questions that I can't answer tho.  I have a old Linksys router, the
> old blue thing that is so common.  Would I have to buy a new router? 
> I also have a older DSL modem, it's a old Westell black box.  Would
> this require a newer modem as well?  I'm thinking those boxes would
> have to have software at least that would support the newer addresses
> but nothing I've read really answers those questions.  I don't know if
> they even update software on those old things. 
>
> Thoughts??


Existing routers: Unknown, depends on model/firmware, must be enabled in
settings.

Existing modems/ONTs: if operating in transparent "bridge" mode, should
be no issue, check MTU limitations/issues.

If modem is operating in lite router mode: unknown, check model.

My ISP is barely fit for a third world country, I'm running 75/75 but
strictly IPv4 only. =(((

https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/comments/dydm3n/does_verizon_fios_support_ipv6_yet/

-- 
Clowns feed off of funny money;
Funny money comes from the FED
so NO FED -> NO CLOWNS!!! 

Powers are not rights.

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Mick]

On Tuesday, 26 November 2019 15:16:24 GMT Dale wrote:
> Adam Carter wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:53 AM Ralph Seichter  > 
> > > wrote:
> > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712
> > .html
> > 
> > This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
> > point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
> > move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
> > 
> > Turning on ipv6 has been on my agenda for a while, but I will need to
> > setup a firewall. Currently i have a single ipv4 NAT box with some
> > port forwards. However, when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become
> > directly routable from the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.
> 
> I have a question about this.  I've read about this for ages and sort of
> get the idea, running out of numbers basically.  There's two questions
> that I can't answer tho.  I have a old Linksys router, the old blue
> thing that is so common.  Would I have to buy a new router?  

Yes.  You will need a router which has an IPv6 network stack on it, besides 
the legacy IPv4 network stack, to be able to route IPv6 addresses directly 
from your LAN.

Depending on how useful your ISP is, they may offer IPv6 tunneling over IPv4.  
You connect to their gateway/proxy over IPv4 as you do now with your existing 
router, but route through the IPv4 tunnel your IPv6 connections.  Their 
gateway will act as an endpoint for your IPv4 tunnel and forward your IPv6 
packets to the IPv6 interwebs.  It is likely they will only do this after they 
have a good sniff at them, but in this age of universal surveillance such an 
activity won't be something surprising.


> I also have
> a older DSL modem, it's a old Westell black box.  Would this require a
> newer modem as well?  

If this is an ADSL modem only (i.e. no PPP negotiation or NAT'ing - a.k.a. 
'Fully Bridged Mode') then it is using ATM encapsulation.  IPv4 or IPv6 
packets from your LAN will be encapsulated into ATM frames by your modem and 
sent to the telephone exchange over copper wires.  There is no need to change 
your modem in this case.

However, if your modem is operating in a 'Half-Bridged mode' then it is 
essentially performing IP masquerading plus ATM encapsulation.  In this case 
it is routing ethernet - it will have to be able to manage IPv6 packets.  An 
old (legacy) router will only have IPv4 stack and the previous comments apply.  
You could always set the modem in fully bridged mode, after you connect to its 
management interface, and thereafter use your router to perform PPP 
authentication with your ISP.  In fully bridged mode you won't need to change 
your modem.


> I'm thinking those boxes would have to have
> software at least that would support the newer addresses but nothing
> I've read really answers those questions.  I don't know if they even
> update software on those old things. 
> 
> Thoughts??
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

You need to google for alternative linux based firmware/software for your 
router and modem make and model.  However, if these are really old devices, 
then their chipsets and RAM may not be adequate to allow them to run dual 
network stacks without grinding to a halt.  If the OEMs never provided IPv6 
capability, for these devices it could well be the case the hardware is not 
capable of carrying the processing load.  
-- 
Regards,

Mick

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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Wols Lists]

On 26/11/19 15:16, Dale wrote:
> Adam Carter wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:53 AM Ralph Seichter > > wrote:
>>
>> 
>> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html
>>
>> This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
>> point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
>> move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
>>
>>
>> Turning on ipv6 has been on my agenda for a while, but I will need to
>> setup a firewall. Currently i have a single ipv4 NAT box with some
>> port forwards. However, when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become
>> directly routable from the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.
> 
> 
> I have a question about this.  I've read about this for ages and sort of
> get the idea, running out of numbers basically.  There's two questions
> that I can't answer tho.  I have a old Linksys router, the old blue
> thing that is so common.  Would I have to buy a new router?  I also have
> a older DSL modem, it's a old Westell black box.  Would this require a
> newer modem as well?  I'm thinking those boxes would have to have
> software at least that would support the newer addresses but nothing
> I've read really answers those questions.  I don't know if they even
> update software on those old things. 
> 
Go into the admin screen on the router. Look at where you configure
IPv4, and see if there's a section on configuring IPv6.

If that's not there, then you need a firmware upgrade, which may or may
not be available, or you might be able to install Open-WRT or whatever
it's called now.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Adam Carter wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:53 AM Ralph Seichter  > wrote:
>
> 
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html
>
> This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
> point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
> move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
>
>
> Turning on ipv6 has been on my agenda for a while, but I will need to
> setup a firewall. Currently i have a single ipv4 NAT box with some
> port forwards. However, when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become
> directly routable from the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.


I have a question about this.  I've read about this for ages and sort of
get the idea, running out of numbers basically.  There's two questions
that I can't answer tho.  I have a old Linksys router, the old blue
thing that is so common.  Would I have to buy a new router?  I also have
a older DSL modem, it's a old Westell black box.  Would this require a
newer modem as well?  I'm thinking those boxes would have to have
software at least that would support the newer addresses but nothing
I've read really answers those questions.  I don't know if they even
update software on those old things. 

Thoughts??

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Adam Carter]

On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 1:53 AM Ralph Seichter 
wrote:

> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html
>
> This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
> point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
> move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).
>

Turning on ipv6 has been on my agenda for a while, but I will need to setup
a firewall. Currently i have a single ipv4 NAT box with some port forwards.
However, when i enable v6, all my internal hosts become directly routable
from the Internet via the /56 my ISP assigns me.

[gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Ralph Seichter]

https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2019-November/001712.html

This does not come as a surprise, of course, but I consider it a good
point in time to pause and ask oneself what each individual can do to
move further towards IPv6. The end is neigh(ish).

-Ralph