Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Dale]

Pandu Poluan wrote:
 
 On Feb 25, 2012 9:16 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com
 mailto:rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:

 8snip
 


 That is true BUT the docs are for 100% certainty.  Well, 99% at least.
 They almost always have the safest way to do anything but not
 necessarily the most used way.  There are lots of things I do
 differently from the docs and my system generally works fine, except for
 the little roaches that scurry about from time to time.

 If you want a drop dead, almost as sure as the Sun comes up in the East
 approach, go by the docs.  If you want to save some time for most
 general usage, do it the way us goofy geeks do it.  Some of us know some
 neat shortcuts.

 Dale

 
 I tend to do an 'eyeball dryrun' first: start tmux, create 2 'windows',
 do make menuconfig of the older kernel in the first window, and start
 make menuconfig in the second. I quickly compare the menu structure of
 both to see where the implicit oldconfig might choke, do some research
 if necessary, and make notes.
 
 Then, I exit the newer menuconfig and cp the older .config to the newer
 src directory, and start make menuconfig again. I keep comparing what
 I'm doing against what I've done in window #1.
 
 Never had a kernel upgrade failure this way -- touch wood!
 
 Rgds,
 


I have had only one doing it the quick way.  When I did have a failure
tho, I did like you do but in two windows of Konsole.  One window on top
and one on bottom.  Just went section by section.  Over the past 3 or so
years, no problems and it only takes about 20 seconds.  One thing tho,
if it fails, it generally tells you it made a mess.  Just delete the new
config and start from scratch like above.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[ny6p01]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 09:17:34AM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:43 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:
 
  The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config
  files in /boot?
 
 I'd say it's more likely to be getting it from /proc/config.gz.
 
 But why start with a clean config each time? That means you have plenty
 of opportunities to produce a broken kernel on every update.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 This is as bad as it can get; but don't bet on it.


yea, I was thinking along those line, too. If I had to start from scratch
each update, what a chore that would be!

Terry

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[ny6p01]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 01:08:22PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
 On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:48:35 +0200
 Coert Waagmeester lgro...@waagmeester.co.za wrote:
 
  On 02/23/2012 11:17 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
   On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:43 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:
  
   The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config
   files in /boot?
  
   I'd say it's more likely to be getting it from /proc/config.gz.
  
   But why start with a clean config each time? That means you have
   plenty of opportunities to produce a broken kernel on every update.
  
  
  
  Is there a way to import old config files with newer kernel sources?
  I tried it once by simply copying .config into the newer src dir, but
  I read somewhere that there could be incompatibilities.
  
 
 That is exactly how you do it. Copy a .config over and run make
 oldconfig
 
 Yes, there could be incompatibilities. This might happen once every few
 years when you do an upgrade over 10 version numbers. But that can be
 fixed.
 
 Not doing it this way means a very high likelyhood of the machine not
 booting with every single upgrade, plus the huge amount of work it
 takes to go through everything in menuconfig.
 
 The choices are simple,
 
 - low risk of occasional breakage
 - high risk of frequent breakage
 
 
 
 -- 
 Alan McKinnnon
 alan.mckin...@gmail.com
 
 

Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol' make
menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old config. From
what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the dangerous part that should
be avoided between substantial kernel updates.

Terry

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:11:24 -0800, ny6...@gmail.com wrote:

 Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol' make
 menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old config. From
 what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the dangerous part that
 should be avoided between substantial kernel updates.

make oldconfig is not the risk, importing the old config is. oldconfig
tries to convert the old config to suit the new kernel, with a success
rate probably in excess of 99%, despite what has been written about it.

Using the old .config without make oldconfig is a good way of getting
the worst of both worlds.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Windows Error #56: Operator fell asleep while waiting.


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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[David W Noon]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:02:38 +, Neil Bothwick wrote about Re:
[gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness:

 On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:11:24 -0800, ny6...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol'
  make menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old
  config. From what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the
  dangerous part that should be avoided between substantial kernel
  updates.
 
 make oldconfig is not the risk, importing the old config is. oldconfig
 tries to convert the old config to suit the new kernel, with a success
 rate probably in excess of 99%, despite what has been written about
 it.
 
 Using the old .config without make oldconfig is a good way of getting
 the worst of both worlds.

The previous poster is doing make menuconfig.  This silently performs a
make oldconfig before presenting the menu.
-- 
Regards,

Dave  [RLU #314465]
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
dwn...@ntlworld.com (David W Noon)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*


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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:11:24 -0800, ny6...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol' make
 menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old config. From
 what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the dangerous part that
 should be avoided between substantial kernel updates.
 
 make oldconfig is not the risk, importing the old config is. oldconfig
 tries to convert the old config to suit the new kernel, with a success
 rate probably in excess of 99%, despite what has been written about it.
 
 Using the old .config without make oldconfig is a good way of getting
 the worst of both worlds.
 
 


Of all the upgrades I have done, I have only had make oldconfig fail
once.  When I posted here, I think it was Alan that said it was a major
change in the kernel menu that messed it up.  That was a few years ago.

99% is likely about right.  One failure so far and waiting on the next
major change in the menu for failure #2.

Now watch it fail the very next time I use it.  O_o

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[ny6p01]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:02:38PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:11:24 -0800, ny6...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol' make
  menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old config. From
  what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the dangerous part that
  should be avoided between substantial kernel updates.
 
 make oldconfig is not the risk, importing the old config is. oldconfig
 tries to convert the old config to suit the new kernel, with a success
 rate probably in excess of 99%, despite what has been written about it.
 
 Using the old .config without make oldconfig is a good way of getting
 the worst of both worlds.
 
 
 -- 
 Neil Bothwick
 
 Windows Error #56: Operator fell asleep while waiting.


I don't mean to be petty, so forgive me - but I needed to check to see if
I'd misread the kernel upgrade guide. So I went back and checked the guide,
and I was confirmed in my impression. From the guide:

#Start Quotes
It is sometimes possible to save time by re-using the configuration file
from your old kernel when configuring the new one. Note that this is
generally unsafe -- too many changes between every kernel release for this
to be a reliable upgrade path.

The only situation where this is appropriate is when upgrading from one
Gentoo kernel revision to another. For example, the changes made between
gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r1 and gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r2 will be very small, so
it is usually OK to use the following method. However, it is not appropriate
to use it in the example used throughout this document: upgrading from 2.6.8
to 2.6.9. Too many changes between the official releases, and the method
described below does not display enough context to the user, often resulting
in the user running into problems because they disabled options that they
really didn't want to.

To reuse your old .config, you simply need to copy it over and then run make
oldconfig. In the following example, we take the configuration from
gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r1 and import it into gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r2. 

A much safer upgrading method is to copy your config as previously shown,
and then simply run make menuconfig. This avoids the problems of make
oldconfig mentioned previously, as make menuconfig will load up your
previous configuration as much as possible into the menu. Now all you have
to do is go through each option and look for new sections, removals, and so
on. By using menuconfig, you gain context for all the new changes, and can
easily view the new choices and review help screens much easier. You can
even use this for upgrades such as 2.6.8 to 2.6.9; just make sure you read
through the options carefully. Once you've finished, compile and install
your kernel as normal.

#End Quotes


Terry 

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Dale]

ny6...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 11:02:38PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote:
 On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:11:24 -0800, ny6...@gmail.com wrote:

 Or just import .config into the 'New' directory, and run plain ol' make
 menuconfig. Menuconfig will import what it can from the old config. From
 what I've read of the docs, make oldconfig is the dangerous part that
 should be avoided between substantial kernel updates.

 make oldconfig is not the risk, importing the old config is. oldconfig
 tries to convert the old config to suit the new kernel, with a success
 rate probably in excess of 99%, despite what has been written about it.

 Using the old .config without make oldconfig is a good way of getting
 the worst of both worlds.


 -- 
 Neil Bothwick

 Windows Error #56: Operator fell asleep while waiting.
 
 
 I don't mean to be petty, so forgive me - but I needed to check to see if
 I'd misread the kernel upgrade guide. So I went back and checked the guide,
 and I was confirmed in my impression. From the guide:
 
 #Start Quotes
 It is sometimes possible to save time by re-using the configuration file
 from your old kernel when configuring the new one. Note that this is
 generally unsafe -- too many changes between every kernel release for this
 to be a reliable upgrade path.
 
 The only situation where this is appropriate is when upgrading from one
 Gentoo kernel revision to another. For example, the changes made between
 gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r1 and gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r2 will be very small, so
 it is usually OK to use the following method. However, it is not appropriate
 to use it in the example used throughout this document: upgrading from 2.6.8
 to 2.6.9. Too many changes between the official releases, and the method
 described below does not display enough context to the user, often resulting
 in the user running into problems because they disabled options that they
 really didn't want to.
 
 To reuse your old .config, you simply need to copy it over and then run make
 oldconfig. In the following example, we take the configuration from
 gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r1 and import it into gentoo-sources-2.6.9-r2. 
 
 A much safer upgrading method is to copy your config as previously shown,
 and then simply run make menuconfig. This avoids the problems of make
 oldconfig mentioned previously, as make menuconfig will load up your
 previous configuration as much as possible into the menu. Now all you have
 to do is go through each option and look for new sections, removals, and so
 on. By using menuconfig, you gain context for all the new changes, and can
 easily view the new choices and review help screens much easier. You can
 even use this for upgrades such as 2.6.8 to 2.6.9; just make sure you read
 through the options carefully. Once you've finished, compile and install
 your kernel as normal.
 
 #End Quotes
 
 
 Terry 
 
 


That is true BUT the docs are for 100% certainty.  Well, 99% at least.
They almost always have the safest way to do anything but not
necessarily the most used way.  There are lots of things I do
differently from the docs and my system generally works fine, except for
the little roaches that scurry about from time to time.

If you want a drop dead, almost as sure as the Sun comes up in the East
approach, go by the docs.  If you want to save some time for most
general usage, do it the way us goofy geeks do it.  Some of us know some
neat shortcuts.

Dale

:-)  :-)

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output?  Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Pandu Poluan]

On Feb 25, 2012 9:16 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote:

8snip



 That is true BUT the docs are for 100% certainty.  Well, 99% at least.
 They almost always have the safest way to do anything but not
 necessarily the most used way.  There are lots of things I do
 differently from the docs and my system generally works fine, except for
 the little roaches that scurry about from time to time.

 If you want a drop dead, almost as sure as the Sun comes up in the East
 approach, go by the docs.  If you want to save some time for most
 general usage, do it the way us goofy geeks do it.  Some of us know some
 neat shortcuts.

 Dale


I tend to do an 'eyeball dryrun' first: start tmux, create 2 'windows', do
make menuconfig of the older kernel in the first window, and start make
menuconfig in the second. I quickly compare the menu structure of both to
see where the implicit oldconfig might choke, do some research if
necessary, and make notes.

Then, I exit the newer menuconfig and cp the older .config to the newer src
directory, and start make menuconfig again. I keep comparing what I'm doing
against what I've done in window #1.

Never had a kernel upgrade failure this way -- touch wood!

Rgds,

[gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Coert Waagmeester]

Hello all,

Usually on gentoo when gentoo-sources gets updated, updating the kernel 
went as follows:


eselect kernel set {new kernel}
cd /usr/src/linux
make menuconfig

and then there was a totally clean config which I would then customize 
for the specific setup.


On one box I am currently running 3.1.6-gentoo
When I start make menuconfig for 3.2.1-gentoo-r2 it would appear as if 
it got my current config from somewhere, eg local version.


Is this a new feature?

To make sure of this I unistalled all gentoo-sources pkgs, deleted 
everything /usr/src/linux*

installed the latest gentoo-sources
yet it still seems to find the current config somewhere

Anyway, just wondering,,

Regards,
Coert

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Mick]

On Thursday 23 Feb 2012 08:10:56 Coert Waagmeester wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 Usually on gentoo when gentoo-sources gets updated, updating the kernel
 went as follows:
 
 eselect kernel set {new kernel}
 cd /usr/src/linux
 make menuconfig
 
 and then there was a totally clean config which I would then customize
 for the specific setup.
 
 On one box I am currently running 3.1.6-gentoo
 When I start make menuconfig for 3.2.1-gentoo-r2 it would appear as if
 it got my current config from somewhere, eg local version.
 
 Is this a new feature?
 
 To make sure of this I unistalled all gentoo-sources pkgs, deleted
 everything /usr/src/linux*
 installed the latest gentoo-sources
 yet it still seems to find the current config somewhere
 
 Anyway, just wondering,,
 
 Regards,
 Coert

Where does the /usr/src/linux symlink point to?  Here's mine:

$ ls -la /usr/src/
total 20
drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4096 Feb  4 11:40 .
drwxr-xr-x 13 root root 4096 Dec 27 09:01 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 root root0 Dec 16  2010 .keep
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root   30 Feb  4 11:40 linux - /usr/src/linux-3.2.1-
gentoo-r2
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Oct 16 16:40 linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Dec  8 21:35 linux-3.0.6-gentoo
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:31 linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2
-- 
Regards,
Mick


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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Coert Waagmeester]

On 02/23/2012 10:25 AM, Mick wrote:

On Thursday 23 Feb 2012 08:10:56 Coert Waagmeester wrote:

Hello all,

Usually on gentoo when gentoo-sources gets updated, updating the kernel
went as follows:

eselect kernel set {new kernel}
cd /usr/src/linux
make menuconfig

and then there was a totally clean config which I would then customize
for the specific setup.

On one box I am currently running 3.1.6-gentoo
When I start make menuconfig for 3.2.1-gentoo-r2 it would appear as if
it got my current config from somewhere, eg local version.

Is this a new feature?

To make sure of this I unistalled all gentoo-sources pkgs, deleted
everything /usr/src/linux*
installed the latest gentoo-sources
yet it still seems to find the current config somewhere

Anyway, just wondering,,

Regards,
Coert


Where does the /usr/src/linux symlink point to?  Here's mine:

$ ls -la /usr/src/
total 20
drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4096 Feb  4 11:40 .
drwxr-xr-x 13 root root 4096 Dec 27 09:01 ..
-rw-r--r--  1 root root0 Dec 16  2010 .keep
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root   30 Feb  4 11:40 linux -  /usr/src/linux-3.2.1-
gentoo-r2
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Oct 16 16:40 linux-2.6.39-gentoo-r3
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Dec  8 21:35 linux-3.0.6-gentoo
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:31 linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2



Here is mine:
# ls -l /usr/src/
total 4
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root   21 Feb 23 10:02 linux - linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2
drwxr-xr-x 24 root root 4096 Feb 23 10:23 linux-3.2.1-gentoo-r2

and I made sure that its a completely clean install of gentoo-sources

The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config files 
in /boot?

# ls -l /boot/
total 13760
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2336082 Jan  5 12:03 System.map-3.1.6-gentoo-cj-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2422336 Feb 23 10:23 System.map-3.2.1-gentoo-r2-cj-2
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   1 Jan  9 13:38 boot - .
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   68292 Jan  5 12:03 config-3.1.6-gentoo-cj-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   70578 Feb 23 10:23 config-3.2.1-gentoo-r2-cj-2
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root4096 Feb 23 10:48 grub
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4563312 Jan  5 12:03 vmlinuz-3.1.6-gentoo-cj-1
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4608752 Feb 23 10:23 vmlinuz-3.2.1-gentoo-r2-cj-2

Rgds,
Coert

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Neil Bothwick]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:43 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:

 The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config
 files in /boot?

I'd say it's more likely to be getting it from /proc/config.gz.

But why start with a clean config each time? That means you have plenty
of opportunities to produce a broken kernel on every update.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This is as bad as it can get; but don't bet on it.


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Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[William Kenworthy]

On Thu, 2012-02-23 at 10:10 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:
 Hello all,
 
 Usually on gentoo when gentoo-sources gets updated, updating the kernel 
 went as follows:
 
 eselect kernel set {new kernel}
 cd /usr/src/linux
make mrproper
 make menuconfig
...


BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Coert Waagmeester]

On 02/23/2012 11:17 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:43 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:


The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config
files in /boot?


I'd say it's more likely to be getting it from /proc/config.gz.

But why start with a clean config each time? That means you have plenty
of opportunities to produce a broken kernel on every update.




Is there a way to import old config files with newer kernel sources?
I tried it once by simply copying .config into the newer src dir, but I 
read somewhere that there could be incompatibilities.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo-sources menuconfig feature/weirdness

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 12:48:35 +0200
Coert Waagmeester lgro...@waagmeester.co.za wrote:

 On 02/23/2012 11:17 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
  On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:51:43 +0200, Coert Waagmeester wrote:
 
  The only thing I can currently think of is maybe the kernel config
  files in /boot?
 
  I'd say it's more likely to be getting it from /proc/config.gz.
 
  But why start with a clean config each time? That means you have
  plenty of opportunities to produce a broken kernel on every update.
 
 
 
 Is there a way to import old config files with newer kernel sources?
 I tried it once by simply copying .config into the newer src dir, but
 I read somewhere that there could be incompatibilities.
 

That is exactly how you do it. Copy a .config over and run make
oldconfig

Yes, there could be incompatibilities. This might happen once every few
years when you do an upgrade over 10 version numbers. But that can be
fixed.

Not doing it this way means a very high likelyhood of the machine not
booting with every single upgrade, plus the huge amount of work it
takes to go through everything in menuconfig.

The choices are simple,

- low risk of occasional breakage
- high risk of frequent breakage



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com