Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 14:53:22 -0300 Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: Debian, and Ubuntu are desktop platforms. Yes they are widely used in production server environments (the slow ones that is) however, our last experience with Debian squeeze as a whole (ie, source tree, reliability, performance), was inhospitable. Dare I say, it was making as nauseated as we would be behind a Windows machine... Really? Debian is a desktop distro? Gentoo it is also, as ALMOST every distro... Gentoo is a meta distro; because of that, you can make it whatever you want to be nearly unlimited (other than by available manpower). :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Just because google does it, does not mean it's right. If you are going to make a suggestion, please make it an educated one. For example: I prefer RHEL because of it's mature GFS, and CMAN support which is Red Hat's implementation of global file system and cluster computing. Or you could even sound funny saying it but add valuable input nevertheless. Some thing like: I think SLES is the shizaooo for clustering because of it's continued support of Pacemaker Cluster, DRBD, GFS, OCFS2 etc Just saying I like something because google does, is not valuable input. To be honest, it's just as a waste of time to read as it is to write. Debian, and Ubuntu are desktop platforms. Yes they are widely used in production server environments (the slow ones that is) however, our last experience with Debian squeeze as a whole (ie, source tree, reliability, performance), was inhospitable. Dare I say, it was making as nauseated as we would be behind a Windows machine... That being said, the OP did not specify the type of cluster. Is he referring to HPLC (Oscar, Rocks, MPI) or Failover cluster for certain services such as HTTP, SSH etc.. as is provided by CMAN, Pacemaker. What has worked really solid for us due to many factors, and the idea of being able to build everything from the ground up is Gentoo, with Pacemaker, GFS, and DRBD. This is for our failover system. Kind Regards, Nick from Toronto. On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe it's intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not very poppular here On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com wrote: and what about slackware for server? Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. Franklin Wang Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to deal with. Clustering, well, you can do that using glusterfs -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Debian, and Ubuntu are desktop platforms. Yes they are widely used in production server environments (the slow ones that is) however, our last experience with Debian squeeze as a whole (ie, source tree, reliability, performance), was inhospitable. Dare I say, it was making as nauseated as we would be behind a Windows machine... Really? Debian is a desktop distro? Gentoo it is also, as ALMOST every distro... Debian uses old software, because all packages are very tested, and have bug fixes, before launch as stable... Debian is a REALLY stable distro, is for that why is very used as server. And ubuntu? Yes, it is shit [?] I think ubuntu is used as server, just because is easy [?] Any way... I think every stable distro, could be used as server. Who is better? Well, this depends on every one. Try to pick the best music group and you will have a same large discusion. Sorry if my english is not perfect. Bye! ;) 361.gif360.gif
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 2014-02-20 8:03 PM, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: Fsacundo impolitely omitted attribution, so I have to add it back... I said: That is such total FUD I just can't even say anything else about it without using some unsavory words. You no need to be disrespectfull... How was my comment disrespectful? It just was my opinion, and everybody are here to learn... But no one is going to learn (anything worthwhile) by spreading FUD. If you are going to voice a strong opinion, be prepared to have it challenged, especially when it is so clearly and obviously wrong. Everybody say good points. I think it is just a matter of taste. Lol! Wrong. Making a claim that gentoo cannot be updated while maintaining its server operations is just so wrong it is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with 'taste'. If you don't want people to say that some claim you make is ridiculously false, stop making ridiculously false claims. Simple.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 02/20/2014 12:53 AM, Facundo Curti
wrote:
I think a "more stable" distro is better for production.
My choice is debian. I think you cant find nothing more
stable that debian...
Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom
built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the
os.
This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on
production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you
need to update the system? This will use all the processor and
the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the
system when this is updating...
the advantage of clustering servers though is you can take one out
and update it. if you use a distributed compliation [1] and tell
portage to keep the binaries [2] you can take a few out and do them
together, then the remainder do not require compilation as the
compile has been done.
I think the best for a server is debian. I didn't try red
hat but I see this like a commercial distro :/ Any way, red
hat is very used as server. And if you choice to pay, you will
have official support (Other wise, you are alone :/)
many of the cluster tools and services are actually written by
redhat so there is no surprise that there is much better
integration.
however i would much rather put gentoo in a public facing domain
where you need the latest security patches always.
getting clustering to work with gentoo can be a bit of a pain if you
are just feeling your way
the big question really is what is the purpose of your cluster ?
shared database load?
load balanced web servers?
distributed file system?
distributed multi system multi cpu calculations?
distributed fast memory cache ?
each thing has a different set of tools and management thereof.
P.D: I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, i
speak spanish
2014-02-19 21:36 GMT-03:00 Franklin
Wang touch2...@gmail.com:
Maybe it's
intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or
ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not
very poppular here
On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote:
On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, "Franklin Wang"
touch2...@gmail.com
wrote:
and what about slackware for server?
Original Message
Subject:
How about the gentoo server or cluster in
production environment?
Date:
Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800
From:
Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com
To:
gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org,
gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org
Hi all,
I'm not familiar with gentoo server and
cluster. So could you tell me
the experience about them? Thanks.
Franklin Wang
Gentoo makes the best server os because
it's a custom built os where the admin knows each
and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there
are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to
deal with.
Clustering, well, you can do that using
glusterfs
--
skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com,
Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distcc
[2]
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2chap=3#doc_chap4
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 2014-02-19 7:53 PM, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you need to update the system? This will use all the processor and the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the system when this is updating... That is such total FUD I just can't even say anything else about it without using some unsavory words. I had an old underpowered server (only 2GB of RAM) that supported about 100 users using IMAP to access their huge maildir mailstores (some users have 20+GB of mail). I kept the thing updated on a regular basis, and the only time it ever went down was to reboot after a kernel upgrade. Updates to all of the other software - postfix and courier-imap (now dovecot) were always done on the live system, and interruption in service was only momentary when I restarted the services after the updates. So please... there may be some legitimate philosophical or other reasons (PHB?) not to use gentoo, but what you said ain't one of them.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 2014-02-20 7:04 AM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 2014-02-19 7:53 PM, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you need to update the system? This will use all the processor and the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the system when this is updating... That is such total FUD I just can't even say anything else about it without using some unsavory words. I had an old underpowered server (only 2GB of RAM) that supported about 100 users using IMAP to access their huge maildir mailstores (some users have 20+GB of mail). I kept the thing updated on a regular basis, and the only time it ever went down was to reboot after a kernel upgrade. And I neglected a main factor - this server was running and serving this many users and being updated simultaneously like this for about 9 YEARS. I only just recently (in the last couple of months) replaced it with a shiny new gentoo VM running on my shiny new vmWare host, and I only did that because I wanted to enable dovecots on disk indexes but couldn't do that without adding more RAM and more disk space to the old box, and since I had a shiny new vmWare host, it only made sense to ditch the old box.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Hi, On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 07:40:59 +0800 Franklin Wang wrote: I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. We have successful experience with Gentoo on both production servers (someone call this area enterprise, though I dislike such name) and HPC setups. In short, Procs: - fine-tuned setups; - really large choice of components; - high-performance setups (especially rocks for HPC); - reduced attack surface; - nontrivial attack surface; - large system updates easy (comparted to e.g. RHEL4 - RHEL5 migration); - easier to add and maintain out-of-tree software. Cons: - much longer time for initial setup; - harder to apply routine updates; - poorly suitable for tasks like: create me this new service ASAP (for which you don't have prepared images), preferably yesterday. Other notes: - requires more qualified personnel to maintain. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko pgpkbel_Wkp06.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. There are some quite decent clusters running Gentoo. See the homepage of the cluster team, https://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/cluster/ and also the link there Clusters running Gentoo. -- Andreas K. Huettel Gentoo Linux developer kde, council
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
the advantage of clustering servers though is you can take one out and update it. if you use a distributed compliation [1] and tell portage to keep the binaries [2] you can take a few out and do them together, then the remainder do not require compilation as the compile has been It is True. I didnt throught on thath. :) That is such total FUD I just can't even say anything else about it without using some unsavory words. You no need to be disrespectfull... It just was my opinion, and everybody are here to learn... Everybody say good points. I think it is just a matter of taste. I hope get the chance to try gentoo as server someday. For now, i just stay in debian. (And my lovely gentoo as desktop, of course). Bye! ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 21 Feb 2014 06:33, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: the advantage of clustering servers though is you can take one out and update it. if you use a distributed compliation [1] and tell portage to keep the binaries [2] you can take a few out and do them together, then the remainder do not require compilation as the compile has been It is True. I didnt throught on thath. :) That is such total FUD I just can't even say anything else about it without using some unsavory words. You no need to be disrespectfull... It just was my opinion, and everybody are here to learn... Everybody say good points. I think it is just a matter of taste. I hope get the chance to try gentoo as server someday. For now, i just stay in debian. (And my lovely gentoo as desktop, of course). Bye! ;) Just my two cents - I've been using gentoo on my servers as well as on client servers since about 2.5+ years and never had any issues.
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Thanks for your help. The choice for HPC can be more free. I prepare to try it in datacenter, for FTP first, and then web server, mail server and so forth. Of course, I still think it's better to use rhel or suse for database, CRM and others. On 2014年02月20日 22:35, Andrew Savchenko wrote: Hi, On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 07:40:59 +0800 Franklin Wang wrote: I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. We have successful experience with Gentoo on both production servers (someone call this area enterprise, though I dislike such name) and HPC setups. In short, Procs: - fine-tuned setups; - really large choice of components; - high-performance setups (especially rocks for HPC); - reduced attack surface; - nontrivial attack surface; - large system updates easy (comparted to e.g. RHEL4 - RHEL5 migration); - easier to add and maintain out-of-tree software. Cons: - much longer time for initial setup; - harder to apply routine updates; - poorly suitable for tasks like: create me this new service ASAP (for which you don't have prepared images), preferably yesterday. Other notes: - requires more qualified personnel to maintain. Best regards, Andrew Savchenko -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Thanks a lot. On 2014年02月21日 02:41, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date:Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From:Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. There are some quite decent clusters running Gentoo. See the homepage of the cluster team, https://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/cluster/ and also the link there Clusters running Gentoo. -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com wrote: and what about slackware for server? Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. Franklin Wang Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to deal with. Clustering, well, you can do that using glusterfs
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Maybe it's intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not very poppular here On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com mailto:touch2...@gmail.com wrote: and what about slackware for server? Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com mailto:touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org mailto:gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org mailto:gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. Franklin Wang Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to deal with. Clustering, well, you can do that using glusterfs -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
I think a more stable distro is better for production. My choice is debian. I think you cant find nothing more stable that debian... Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you need to update the system? This will use all the processor and the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the system when this is updating... I think the best for a server is debian. I didn't try red hat but I see this like a commercial distro :/ Any way, red hat is very used as server. And if you choice to pay, you will have official support (Other wise, you are alone :/) P.D: I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, i speak spanish [?] 2014-02-19 21:36 GMT-03:00 Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com: Maybe it's intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not very poppular here On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com wrote: and what about slackware for server? Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. Franklin Wang Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to deal with. Clustering, well, you can do that using glusterfs -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang 349.gif
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
On 20 Feb 2014 06:23, Facundo Curti facu.cu...@gmail.com wrote: I think a more stable distro is better for production. My choice is debian. I think you cant find nothing more stable that debian... Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you need to update the system? This will use all the processor and the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the system when this is updating... I think the best for a server is debian. I didn't try red hat but I see this like a commercial distro :/ Any way, red hat is very used as server. And if you choice to pay, you will have official support (Other wise, you are alone :/) P.D: I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, i speak spanish 2014-02-19 21:36 GMT-03:00 Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com: Maybe it's intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not very poppular here On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com wrote: and what about slackware for server? Original Message Subject: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment? Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800 From: Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com To: gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org, gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org Hi all, I'm not familiar with gentoo server and cluster. So could you tell me the experience about them? Thanks. Franklin Wang Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to deal with. Clustering, well, you can do that using glusterfs -- skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com, Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang Um, binhost?
Re: [gentoo-user] Fwd: How about the gentoo server or cluster in production environment?
Debian's powerful and stable, and I like apt very much. Gentoo and
arch can be used for soho. Google uses red hat in datacenter with a
customized kernel, and facebook started the project of open compute.
are several RISC processors going to die?
On 2014年02月20日 08:53, Facundo Curti
wrote:
I think a "more stable" distro is better for production.
My choice is debian. I think you cant find nothing more
stable that debian...
Gentoo makes the best server os because it's a custom
built os where the admin knows each and every aspect of the
os.
This is true, but gentoo is a little unstable to use on
production. The system must be on 365 days/year. ¿and when you
need to update the system? This will use all the processor and
the system will be overloaded. This means users can't use the
system when this is updating...
I think the best for a server is debian. I didn't try red
hat but I see this like a commercial distro :/ Any way, red
hat is very used as server. And if you choice to pay, you will
have official support (Other wise, you are alone :/)
P.D: I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, i speak spanish
2014-02-19 21:36 GMT-03:00 Franklin
Wang touch2...@gmail.com:
Maybe it's
intresting, although I prefer to use red hat, suse or
ubuntu in datacenter as Google. Slackware servers're not
very poppular here
On 2014年02月20日 08:14, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote:
On 20 Feb 2014 05:12, "Franklin Wang"
touch2...@gmail.com
wrote:
and what about slackware for server?
Original Message
Subject:
How about the gentoo server or cluster in
production environment?
Date:
Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:41:28 +0800
From:
Franklin Wang touch2...@gmail.com
To:
gentoo-ser...@lists.gentoo.org,
gentoo-clus...@lists.gentoo.org
Hi all,
I'm not familiar with gentoo server and
cluster. So could you tell me
the experience about them? Thanks.
Franklin Wang
Gentoo makes the best server os because
it's a custom built os where the admin knows each
and every aspect of the os. Security wise, there
are no unwanted or unused stuff, so lesser bugs to
deal with.
Clustering, well, you can do that using
glusterfs
--
skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com,
Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
--
skype:touch21st, Gtalk:touch21st, Yahoo/MSN:franklinwan...@yahoo.com,
Xing/Linkedin:Franklin Wang
