Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/30/2017 01:51 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> Like I mention in another thread (and like Rich touches on) power
> savings can be an incentive to upgrade, besides the increase in speed.
> Power efficiency and speed generally increase in multiples greater
> than one, so you are reducing the cost and time of compilations or
> general use by a lot in the end.
> 
> Look at Alan's quoted build times for an example.
> 

I plan to upgrade but it probably won't be until early next year. Broken
appliances and vehicles in need of repair...

Where I am power is 8.5c/kWh CAD, it's so cheap compared to other parts
of the world... spending over a thousand dollars to save $20/year in
power is not really worth it. If I was paying 30c/kWh I would've
upgraded already.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Daniel Frey  wrote:
> On 08/29/2017 08:09 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Dale  wrote:
>>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>>
>>> Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
>>> almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
>>> system 24/7, that is even more reason.
>>>
>>
>> It's something I used to bring up in #gentoo when people would come in
>> and ask or complain about compilation times. The amortization period
>> for computers is generally 3 years. If you use them longer, you are
>> (in theory) losing money relative to your competitors.
>>
>> As a home user, your time and energy budgets might not be so tight,
>> but the lack of stress is worth a nice desktop for compiling your
>> software.
>>
>>
>
> I'm sort of on the fence for now. I bought my computer in 2008 (but an
> expensive processor, QX9650, with 8GB of RAM, very $$$ in 2008) and it
> still is running fine today. It still compiles reasonably quickly, as I
> use distcc with one other computer) and am still on spinning rust, but
> in RAID. My mythtv frontends have SSDs and every one has had the SSD
> replaced at least once.
>

A decade was about how long I expect my i7-4770k based system to last,
assuming I have absolutely no money to upgrade before then.

> My main frontend in the living room has shown problems (hanging while
> playing back recordings, and I mean a hard-lock... no ssh, no response
> at all, and the backend had in its logs "where'd it go? closing
> connection") and so I think the hardware may finally be at the end of
> its life. That was also built in 2008.
>
> I'm not going to throw a working computer out (well, recycle it) if I
> don't have to. Power is cheap here.
>
> I have concerns about the backend (Q6600) and frontend (E7500), as they
> were both built in 2008, but the thing is, they're just as fast as I
> remember them when built new.
>
> For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
> Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
> processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
> part of my distcc cluster.
>
> I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
> but I'm using RAID and distcc:
>
> $ genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice
>
>  Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
>merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.
>
> I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
> slow.
>

Like I mention in another thread (and like Rich touches on) power
savings can be an incentive to upgrade, besides the increase in speed.
Power efficiency and speed generally increase in multiples greater
than one, so you are reducing the cost and time of compilations or
general use by a lot in the end.

Look at Alan's quoted build times for an example.

R0b0t1.

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Daniel.

On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 07:49:49 -0700, Daniel Frey wrote:

[  ]

> For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
> Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
> processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
> part of my distcc cluster.

> I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
> but I'm using RAID and distcc:

> $ genlop -t libreoffice
>  * app-office/libreoffice

>  Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
>merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.

> I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
> slow.

Just for comparison, my new Ryzen 1700X box, with 16 GB RAM, and two 500
GB SSDs connected to the PCI bus (courtesy of Samsung) in a RAID-1,
compiled libreoffice for the first time in around 25 minutes.  (It
actually took ~35 minutes including 40-odd other packages.)  This was
with /var/tmp on a RAM disk.

If money isn't tight, treat yourself!  There's something nice about only
being able to drink one cup of coffee whilst LO is building, and XFCE4
starting in less than a second is also quite gratifying.

I built my new box partly because the old one from 2009, though still
working, is not going to be working for ever, and the announcement of
the Ryzen processors finished the prompting.  On this machine, building
LO takes around two and a half hours.

> Dan

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Daniel Frey]

On 08/29/2017 08:09 PM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Dale  wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
>> almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
>> system 24/7, that is even more reason.
>>
> 
> It's something I used to bring up in #gentoo when people would come in
> and ask or complain about compilation times. The amortization period
> for computers is generally 3 years. If you use them longer, you are
> (in theory) losing money relative to your competitors.
> 
> As a home user, your time and energy budgets might not be so tight,
> but the lack of stress is worth a nice desktop for compiling your
> software.
> 
> 

I'm sort of on the fence for now. I bought my computer in 2008 (but an
expensive processor, QX9650, with 8GB of RAM, very $$$ in 2008) and it
still is running fine today. It still compiles reasonably quickly, as I
use distcc with one other computer) and am still on spinning rust, but
in RAID. My mythtv frontends have SSDs and every one has had the SSD
replaced at least once.

My main frontend in the living room has shown problems (hanging while
playing back recordings, and I mean a hard-lock... no ssh, no response
at all, and the backend had in its logs "where'd it go? closing
connection") and so I think the hardware may finally be at the end of
its life. That was also built in 2008.

I'm not going to throw a working computer out (well, recycle it) if I
don't have to. Power is cheap here.

I have concerns about the backend (Q6600) and frontend (E7500), as they
were both built in 2008, but the thing is, they're just as fast as I
remember them when built new.

For the frontend replacement I think I'm going to jump to one of the
Ryzen products. I don't need ThreadRipper there, but one of their other
processors will work. The backend will get a faster processor but it's
part of my distcc cluster.

I think Dale posted a libreoffice build speed, mine isn't so bad either,
but I'm using RAID and distcc:

$ genlop -t libreoffice
 * app-office/libreoffice

 Tue Aug  1 08:45:28 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
   merge time: 1 hour, 22 minutes and 53 seconds.

I *really* hate the climate nowadays of toss it out when it acts up/gets
slow.

Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[R0b0t1]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 12:07 AM, Dale  wrote:
> Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
>>> I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or seven
>>> years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my satisfaction. But
>>> of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are much faster. Therefore
>>> I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year. This should be an enormous
>>> speedup. :-)
>>>
>> Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
>> that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
>> less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
>> space heater inside.
>>
>
> My old rig, AMD 2500+ CPU with about 3 or 4GBs of ram.  My new rig, AMD
> Phenom II X4 955  with 16GBs of ram.  My old rig, pulled about 400 watts
> from the wall, while idle.  My new rig, pulls about 160 watts idle and
> that includes monitor, router and all.  I don't think my little speakers
> are plugged into the UPS.  Thing is, my new rig according to my math is
> almost 10 times as fast. It has a lot more ram and more drives than the
> old rig.
>
> More to your point, my old rig used 80mm fans.  It had lots of them.
> CPU, several on the case including some I added myself.  It made some
> noise for sure.  My new case is a Cooler Master HAF-932.  It has those
> 200mm fans which move a lot of air but turn pretty slowly, which means
> quiet.  Thing is, the newer and faster rig runs cooler, quieter and
> faster than the old rig by far.
>
> Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
> almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
> system 24/7, that is even more reason.
>

It's something I used to bring up in #gentoo when people would come in
and ask or complain about compilation times. The amortization period
for computers is generally 3 years. If you use them longer, you are
(in theory) losing money relative to your competitors.

As a home user, your time and energy budgets might not be so tight,
but the lack of stress is worth a nice desktop for compiling your
software.

> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
>> I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or seven
>> years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my satisfaction. But
>> of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are much faster. Therefore
>> I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year. This should be an enormous
>> speedup. :-)
>>
> Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
> that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
> less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
> space heater inside.
>

My old rig, AMD 2500+ CPU with about 3 or 4GBs of ram.  My new rig, AMD
Phenom II X4 955  with 16GBs of ram.  My old rig, pulled about 400 watts
from the wall, while idle.  My new rig, pulls about 160 watts idle and
that includes monitor, router and all.  I don't think my little speakers
are plugged into the UPS.  Thing is, my new rig according to my math is
almost 10 times as fast. It has a lot more ram and more drives than the
old rig. 

More to your point, my old rig used 80mm fans.  It had lots of them. 
CPU, several on the case including some I added myself.  It made some
noise for sure.  My new case is a Cooler Master HAF-932.  It has those
200mm fans which move a lot of air but turn pretty slowly, which means
quiet.  Thing is, the newer and faster rig runs cooler, quieter and
faster than the old rig by far. 

Isn't it amazing how efficient and fast newer computers are?  It's
almost worth the energy saving to upgrade.  If a person runs their
system 24/7, that is even more reason. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[R0b0t1]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 9:54 PM, R0b0t1  wrote:
> Hello, I apologize for the tangents.
>
> The only on-topic comments I can offer are that: yes, those parts seem
> to be usable with Gentoo, whereas similarly old parts a decade ago
> were not; and, I have been looking for a low power server setup and
> would appreciate if you could communicate your ultimate part
> selection.
>
> Also that a $350-$400 CPU seems to be more than sufficient. My
> i7-4770K is still very capable and that I look forward to some day
> using a multisocket system with very nice Xeons (or the AMD
> equivalent, if it becomes competitive).
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Rich Freeman  wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 8:29 PM, wabe  wrote:
>>> Rich Freeman  wrote:
>>>
 On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
 >
 > I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or
 > seven years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my
 > satisfaction. But of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are
 > much faster. Therefore I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year.
 > This should be an enormous speedup. :-)

 Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
 that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
 less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
 space heater inside.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what TDP my Phenoms have (95W or 125W). The TDP of the
>>> 1950X is rated at 180W. But this is for all cores running at full load.
>>> So the effective heat output over time should be lower than with my old
>>> CPUs.
>>
>> Your old CPU has a TDP of 140W.  I forget which model exactly I had
>> but I think its TDP was 195W.
>>
>> Sure, the 1950X is going to pull quite a bit of power, but my 1600
>> only pulls 65W when going full tilt.  It is a very noticeable
>> difference.  I suspect my old CPU probably used a good portion of that
>> at idle.
>>
>>>
>>> Because of the high price for the whole machine (board, ram, cpu...)
>>> I will replace my two PCs (one Windoze and one Gentoo) with a single
>>> machine. However I have some concerns regarding dualboot. I would
>>> prefer NVMe SSDs but I think it may be better to use eSATA disks. Then
>>> I easily can switch the disks and it should be impossible that one OS
>>> can compromise the other.
>>
>> Seems like eSATA is harder to find these days.  USB3 seems to be the
>> way things are going.  However, that works just fine.
>>
>
> For a small amount of time you could find combination eSATA/USB 3
> connectors. I lament their demise.
>
>
> Something to be aware of is that, in general, USB hubs will operate at
> the speed of the slowest device connected. This is problematic because
> a lot of motherboards and cases are such that a mouse and keyboard are
> on the same hub that you would use at the front of your case. Mice and
> keyboards are typically USB 1.1 devices.
>
> For USB 1.1 to USB 2, there is *supposed to be* one or more
> transaction translators that take USB 1.1 data and retransmit it at
> USB 2 speeds. Some hubs don't seem to implement this properly and
> connecting a USB 1.1 device slows the entire bus down to USB 1.1
> speeds. Even if a transaction translator is present, the bus will
> remain busy for the entire USB 1.1 communication time taken by the
> device, slowing everything down.
>
> For USB 2 to USB 3, there is no conversion performed. This leads to a
> situation contrary to what most people would expect - multiple USB 2
> devices can not take advantage of more than the default USB 2
> bandwidth. USB 2 connections to a USB 3 hub simply do not use the USB
> 3 data lines, which are necessary for the increased bandwidth.
>
> Additionally, some hubs will downgrade USB 3 links to USB 2 speeds if
> a USB 2 device is present for unknown reasons. This might be because
> of the issue in the second paragraph, e.g. the requirement to wait for
> USB 2 transmissions. Reading the specification as to whether this was
> allowed behavior didn't make clarify anything to me.
>
> Regardless, the result is that if you plug a USB 1.1 device into a USB
> 3 hub you might slow your file transfers down by an order of magnitude
> or more. This is exactly what I experienced that led me to researching
> this issue.
>
>> On my motherboard at least the PCI-based NVMe came at the cost of
>> disabling one of the x16 slots, and the SATA-based one came at the
>> cost of disabling one of the SATA ports.  So, no PCI-based NVMe for me
>> as I have an 8x card in addition to my graphics card.
>>
>> They really need to make more flexible slots as I believe that the
>> slots themselves are electrically compatible - that is you can shove a
>> 16x card in a 1x slot as long as you eliminate the plastic that blocks
>> this from happening.  Granted, I wouldn't want to put my LSI card in a
>> 1x slot - it 

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[R0b0t1]

Hello, I apologize for the tangents.

The only on-topic comments I can offer are that: yes, those parts seem
to be usable with Gentoo, whereas similarly old parts a decade ago
were not; and, I have been looking for a low power server setup and
would appreciate if you could communicate your ultimate part
selection.

Also that a $350-$400 CPU seems to be more than sufficient. My
i7-4770K is still very capable and that I look forward to some day
using a multisocket system with very nice Xeons (or the AMD
equivalent, if it becomes competitive).

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Rich Freeman  wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 8:29 PM, wabe  wrote:
>> Rich Freeman  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or
>>> > seven years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my
>>> > satisfaction. But of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are
>>> > much faster. Therefore I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year.
>>> > This should be an enormous speedup. :-)
>>>
>>> Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
>>> that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
>>> less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
>>> space heater inside.
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what TDP my Phenoms have (95W or 125W). The TDP of the
>> 1950X is rated at 180W. But this is for all cores running at full load.
>> So the effective heat output over time should be lower than with my old
>> CPUs.
>
> Your old CPU has a TDP of 140W.  I forget which model exactly I had
> but I think its TDP was 195W.
>
> Sure, the 1950X is going to pull quite a bit of power, but my 1600
> only pulls 65W when going full tilt.  It is a very noticeable
> difference.  I suspect my old CPU probably used a good portion of that
> at idle.
>
>>
>> Because of the high price for the whole machine (board, ram, cpu...)
>> I will replace my two PCs (one Windoze and one Gentoo) with a single
>> machine. However I have some concerns regarding dualboot. I would
>> prefer NVMe SSDs but I think it may be better to use eSATA disks. Then
>> I easily can switch the disks and it should be impossible that one OS
>> can compromise the other.
>
> Seems like eSATA is harder to find these days.  USB3 seems to be the
> way things are going.  However, that works just fine.
>

For a small amount of time you could find combination eSATA/USB 3
connectors. I lament their demise.


Something to be aware of is that, in general, USB hubs will operate at
the speed of the slowest device connected. This is problematic because
a lot of motherboards and cases are such that a mouse and keyboard are
on the same hub that you would use at the front of your case. Mice and
keyboards are typically USB 1.1 devices.

For USB 1.1 to USB 2, there is *supposed to be* one or more
transaction translators that take USB 1.1 data and retransmit it at
USB 2 speeds. Some hubs don't seem to implement this properly and
connecting a USB 1.1 device slows the entire bus down to USB 1.1
speeds. Even if a transaction translator is present, the bus will
remain busy for the entire USB 1.1 communication time taken by the
device, slowing everything down.

For USB 2 to USB 3, there is no conversion performed. This leads to a
situation contrary to what most people would expect - multiple USB 2
devices can not take advantage of more than the default USB 2
bandwidth. USB 2 connections to a USB 3 hub simply do not use the USB
3 data lines, which are necessary for the increased bandwidth.

Additionally, some hubs will downgrade USB 3 links to USB 2 speeds if
a USB 2 device is present for unknown reasons. This might be because
of the issue in the second paragraph, e.g. the requirement to wait for
USB 2 transmissions. Reading the specification as to whether this was
allowed behavior didn't make clarify anything to me.

Regardless, the result is that if you plug a USB 1.1 device into a USB
3 hub you might slow your file transfers down by an order of magnitude
or more. This is exactly what I experienced that led me to researching
this issue.

> On my motherboard at least the PCI-based NVMe came at the cost of
> disabling one of the x16 slots, and the SATA-based one came at the
> cost of disabling one of the SATA ports.  So, no PCI-based NVMe for me
> as I have an 8x card in addition to my graphics card.
>
> They really need to make more flexible slots as I believe that the
> slots themselves are electrically compatible - that is you can shove a
> 16x card in a 1x slot as long as you eliminate the plastic that blocks
> this from happening.  Granted, I wouldn't want to put my LSI card in a
> 1x slot - it would be nicer if they had a 2x or 4x slot in there, but
> I realize that 1x and 16x seems to be where all the demand is.
>

This is true. Unless the OS on the graphics card is making assumptions
it shouldn't 

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 8:29 PM, wabe  wrote:
> Rich Freeman  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or
>> > seven years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my
>> > satisfaction. But of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are
>> > much faster. Therefore I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year.
>> > This should be an enormous speedup. :-)
>>
>> Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
>> that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
>> less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
>> space heater inside.
>
>
> I'm not sure what TDP my Phenoms have (95W or 125W). The TDP of the
> 1950X is rated at 180W. But this is for all cores running at full load.
> So the effective heat output over time should be lower than with my old
> CPUs.

Your old CPU has a TDP of 140W.  I forget which model exactly I had
but I think its TDP was 195W.

Sure, the 1950X is going to pull quite a bit of power, but my 1600
only pulls 65W when going full tilt.  It is a very noticeable
difference.  I suspect my old CPU probably used a good portion of that
at idle.

>
> Because of the high price for the whole machine (board, ram, cpu...)
> I will replace my two PCs (one Windoze and one Gentoo) with a single
> machine. However I have some concerns regarding dualboot. I would
> prefer NVMe SSDs but I think it may be better to use eSATA disks. Then
> I easily can switch the disks and it should be impossible that one OS
> can compromise the other.

Seems like eSATA is harder to find these days.  USB3 seems to be the
way things are going.  However, that works just fine.

On my motherboard at least the PCI-based NVMe came at the cost of
disabling one of the x16 slots, and the SATA-based one came at the
cost of disabling one of the SATA ports.  So, no PCI-based NVMe for me
as I have an 8x card in addition to my graphics card.

They really need to make more flexible slots as I believe that the
slots themselves are electrically compatible - that is you can shove a
16x card in a 1x slot as long as you eliminate the plastic that blocks
this from happening.  Granted, I wouldn't want to put my LSI card in a
1x slot - it would be nicer if they had a 2x or 4x slot in there, but
I realize that 1x and 16x seems to be where all the demand is.

>
> Hopefully the price for RAM will drop before I buy the new rig. It's
> incredible high at the moment.
>

Yeah, the best price I could find as $99 for 8GB of DDR4 ECC, and only
at 2400.  Not much of a consumer market for ECC.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[wabe]

Rich Freeman  wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
> >
> > I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or
> > seven years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my
> > satisfaction. But of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are
> > much faster. Therefore I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year.
> > This should be an enormous speedup. :-)
> >  
> 
> Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
> that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
> less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
> space heater inside.

I have a huge cooler and a big 140mm fan on top of the CPUs. That plus
noise absorbing cases with some huge slow rotating fans makes my PCs 
nearly silent. However when running under full load its a little bit
annoying. As workaround I then rise the volume of my stereo a bit. ;-)

I'm not sure what TDP my Phenoms have (95W or 125W). The TDP of the 
1950X is rated at 180W. But this is for all cores running at full load. 
So the effective heat output over time should be lower than with my old 
CPUs.

> That said, I'd check any chip you buy for the week number to ensure
> that it doesn't have the segfault issue if you're going to use it with
> Gentoo.

I read about the problem regarding Ryzen and Linux. That's one reason
why I didn't bought it yet. Then I read about the new AMD 1950X and 
decided to wait some months until the price of this CPU has dropped a 
bit and its potentially existing childhood diseases are cured.

Because of the high price for the whole machine (board, ram, cpu...)
I will replace my two PCs (one Windoze and one Gentoo) with a single 
machine. However I have some concerns regarding dualboot. I would 
prefer NVMe SSDs but I think it may be better to use eSATA disks. Then
I easily can switch the disks and it should be impossible that one OS 
can compromise the other. 

Or is there another way to proper isolate the systems?

> I am using mine with ECC RAM and can report that seems to work fine,
> though you should check for MB recommendations for that.

I also plan to use ECC RAM. For image processing I need a lot of RAM.
And the more RAM, the more risk for memory corruption. 

Before I buy new stuff I have to read a lot of information. Since I 
bought my hardware many years ago I lose touch with the actual 
hardware development.

Hopefully the price for RAM will drop before I buy the new rig. It's 
incredible high at the moment.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Rich Freeman]

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:22 PM, wabe  wrote:
>
> I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or seven
> years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my satisfaction. But
> of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are much faster. Therefore
> I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year. This should be an enormous
> speedup. :-)
>

Having just upgraded one of those to a Ryzen 5 1600 I can tell you
that besides tripling your kernel build speeds, it will also sound
less like a hair dryer and make your room feel less like it has a
space heater inside.

That said, I'd check any chip you buy for the week number to ensure
that it doesn't have the segfault issue if you're going to use it with
Gentoo.

I am using mine with ECC RAM and can report that seems to work fine,
though you should check for MB recommendations for that.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[Dale]

mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> any one have experiance with athlon, Phenom, and opteron?  if so i'm
> curios if it's worth a $15-20 expense.
>
> -- 
> The Power Of the People Is Stronger Than The People In Charge.


Check this site out:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

Click on the top section and it will sort by that score.  Example, you
may want to click CPU Value to get the most bang for the buck.  One
could click on Rank and then go down the price column until you find one
within your budget.  Example, if you are willing to spend $1,000 on a
CPU, the third one in the ranking will give you the biggest bang.  It's
the third fastest that has been tested and it is a LOT cheaper than
$2,700 for the one in first place.  Me, I'd go way down the list until I
got to about number 90.  It costs about $230.00.  That would be my upper
end budget. 

That said, I have this right now.

model name:  AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor

I have 16GBs of ram.  It does pretty well. 

genlop -t

 Fri Aug 18 01:57:52 2017 >>> www-client/firefox-55.0.1
   merge time: 1 hour, 57 minutes and 8 seconds.

 Tue Jul 25 13:30:04 2017 >>> sys-devel/gcc-5.4.0-r3
   merge time: 50 minutes and 12 seconds.

 Wed Jul 26 06:53:51 2017 >>> app-office/libreoffice-5.2.7.2
   merge time: 3 hours, 27 minutes and 47 seconds.

root@fireball / #

Those are with portage's work directory on spinning rust.  It is faster
on tmpfs but if it is going to upgrade a combination of those, I need
more ram.  I plan to upgrade to 8 cores and 32GBs of ram at some point. 

Hope that helps. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] processor speed

[wabe]

 wrote:

> any one have experiance with athlon, Phenom, and opteron?  if so i'm
> curios if it's worth a $15-20 expense.


I'm using an AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor. I bought it six or seven 
years ago when it was brand-new. It still works to my satisfaction. But 
of course recent CPUs (for example AMD Ryzen) are much faster. Therefore 
I wanna buy an AMD Threadripper next year. This should be an enormous 
speedup. :-)

Use your preferred search engine and take a look at some benchmarks to
compare the speed of your current CPU with the one you wanna buy. This 
should help you to make a decision.

--
Regards
wabe