Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
This site would indicate there's a wide variance: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/chart,124/ (Between 8 and 200 for various Linksys products - but the chart lists a number of other manufacturers) --Bruce Ted Roche wrote: I'm looking at setting up a caf/é/-style space where somewhere between 10 and 25 people will be working on their laptop. I'd be bringing in an internet connection, likely a Comcast 16/2, and I anticipate most folks will be surfing with 802-11g or n (draft). Mostly surfing, with occasional file uploads, YouTube viral videos. Twittering, or debugging a misbehaving Drupal app. Can 25 people share a single wireless access point, or will more than one be needed? Would a consumer-grade WRT54G or equivalent be suitable? For simplification, let's assume an open 40' x 50' space with fairly clear line-of-sight and no major physical obstacles. I recognize if there's a second space behind a brick wall they'll likely need their own WAP or a switched connection. I'm more concerned with the load on a single WAP. I've done mostly wired deployments or single AP layouts with a couple people, so I'm not sure where the loading will drag it down. Any insights on things to set up (DDWRT, traffic shaping) or avoid would be appreciated. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Launchpad to be free
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.comwrote: On 02/27/2009 08:35 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: Somewhere or another there was an explanation in writing... Oh, there, found it: Ah: There are two components, Soyuz and Codehosting, that we're keeping internal. They're part of Canonical's secret sauce in business areas that we care a lot about, and for now the costs to us of opening them up outweigh the benefits. My simple interpretation is that Canonical sees a benefit in opening (most) of Launchpad which should strengthen their position in the marketplace. Once their leadership position is further solidified, they have less risk with completing what they started (Mark Shuttleworth said he would like to open the source to Launchpad a long time ago). The alternate - assuming they were even ready - seems like it would risk people opening dozens of code hosting sites (seeking ad revenue) which serves to only fragment the market for code hosting. An over-simplification is that they are open-sourcing to compete against and catch up to services like GitHub. The skeptic would say they are opening enough to get free labor AND increased market share to fuel new product development (aka Launchpad Enterprise). The fact that Sourceforge (the code) was free a long time ago, and went through free/non-free versions is an example of how money interests can trump freedom. I'd also say that the quality of the Sourceforge system would be much better if it were free (e.g. it doesn't support other version control systems). Sourceforge's TOS basically All your code are belong to us (you grant them a proprietary license [1]). I think it's a big plus to the community that we will once again have a free code hosting system. Maybe this time they won't follow the same path as Sourceforge. Or maybe not. Karl Fogel seems to be very much involved in this [2] and he was also very much involved (in Subversion and) CollabNet [3], so he would know the true intentions and dynamics at play. I guess what I'm saying is that either Canonical wants to be in the Code Hosting business, or not. I don't know. I'm hoping for the latter. What I do know is that we have room for improvement because there really aren't ANY free and complete code hosting systems [4]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourceforge#cite_note-4 [2] https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing#what [3] http://producingoss.com/cv/ [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities -- Greg Rundlett Web Developer - Initiative in Innovative Computing http://iic.harvard.edu camb 617-384-5872 nbpt 978-225-8302 m. 978-764-4424 -skype/aim/irc/twitter freephile http://profiles.aim.com/freephile ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
Bruce Dawson wrote: This site would indicate there's a wide variance: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/chart,124/ (Between 8 and 200 for various Linksys products - but the chart lists a number of other manufacturer That's a handy site -- bookmarked! Thanks! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Disk imaging for XP system
Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? Thanks Chris -- IBA #15631 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
RE: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I read this as the number of supported WIRED connections! Many of the wireless routers also have several wired ports. I really don't think this is talking about signal strength through the air - I've never heard of a WAP which will support hundreds of wireless clients simultaneously. This is from the Cisco KB Wiki: Solution # K47828638 Title How many wireless clients an access point can support. Resolution The Access Point can support up to 20 clients (PC) or 7/8 phones comfortably, which depends on the application. The AP has the physical capacity to handle 2048 MAC addresses. However, because the AP is a shared medium and acts as a wireless hub, the performance of each user decreases as the number of users increases on an individual AP. Ideally, not more than 24 clients ... I have tried deploying a laptop cart of 18-22 laptops with Linksys units (this was 3 years ago), and it was a dismal failure. I got, at most, 14 on simultaneously ... when I deployed 3 AP's in the same room, I could get a few more on. My understanding is that home-quality units are just not powerful enough to deal with that many clients. Other schools have had better success, and it must be due to the construction of the building and the quality of the spaces in which the APs are used. At that point, we deployed a Cisco Aironet enterprise AP (they are up around $500) and it was very successful. We often have one laptop left out, but usually it just lags behind about 10 minutes (typically, we start up all of the laptops at once). It is POE, so we provide the power at the switch and did not need to run an electrical outlet out to the location of the AP. Since then, we have moved to Aruba Wireless school-wide. We have a centralized controller (less expensive than Cisco) and it configures our APs centrally. We are working towards overlapping coverage (1 AP) in each area of the building in which we provide wireless access. Pam McLeod Director of Technology, Alton School District From: gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org [gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org] On Behalf Of Ted Roche [tedro...@tedroche.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:45 AM To: Bruce Dawson Cc: Greater NH Linux User Group Subject: Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP? Bruce Dawson wrote: This site would indicate there's a wide variance: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_chart/Itemid,189/chart,124/ (Between 8 and 200 for various Linksys products - but the chart lists a number of other manufacturer That's a handy site -- bookmarked! Thanks! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
RE: Disk imaging for XP system
New versions of Acronis will support SATA drives, as will newer versions of Ghost. I'm wondering if Clonezilla might work, as well? Pam McLeod Director of Technology, Alton School District From: gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org [gnhlug-discuss-boun...@mail.gnhlug.org] On Behalf Of Chris [fj1...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:16 AM To: Greater NH Linux User Group Subject: Disk imaging for XP system Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? Thanks Chris -- IBA #15631 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Pam McLeod pmcl...@alton.k12.nh.us wrote: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I read this as the number of supported WIRED connections! Many of the wireless routers also have several wired ports. Correct, it's talking about the number of TCP connections it can route at the same time. -- -- Thomas ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
RE: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 10:22 -0500, Pam McLeod wrote: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I read this as the number of supported WIRED connections! Many of the wireless routers also have several wired ports. I really don't think this is talking about signal strength through the air - I've never heard of a WAP which will support hundreds of wireless clients simultaneously. This is from the Cisco KB Wiki: Solution # K47828638 Title How many wireless clients an access point can support. Resolution The Access Point can support up to 20 clients (PC) or 7/8 phones comfortably, which depends on the application. The AP has the physical capacity to handle 2048 MAC addresses. However, because the AP is a shared medium and acts as a wireless hub, the performance of each user decreases as the number of users increases on an individual AP. Ideally, not more than 24 clients ... I think this is the answer right here; wireless uses the same CSMA/CD algorithm that Ethernet does, so using WiFi is just like using the old unswitched hubs. Documents from a few years back talking about unswitched hubs reference a 30-40% limit on utilization; collisions end up limiting maximum performance to no more than that. -- Stephen Ryan Software Developer, Dartware, LLC ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
have you tried partimage on a linux rescue cd? Chris wrote: Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? Thanks Chris -- IBA #15631 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Launchpad to be free
Greg Rundlett wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.comwrote: On 02/27/2009 08:35 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: Somewhere or another there was an explanation in writing... Oh, there, found it: Ah: There are two components, Soyuz and Codehosting, that we're keeping internal. They're part of Canonical's secret sauce in business areas that we care a lot about, and for now the costs to us of opening them up outweigh the benefits. My simple interpretation is that Canonical sees a benefit in opening (most) of Launchpad which should strengthen their position in the marketplace. Once their leadership position is further solidified, they have less risk with completing what they started (Mark Shuttleworth said he would like to open the source to Launchpad a long time ago). The alternate - assuming they were even ready - seems like it would risk people opening dozens of code hosting sites (seeking ad revenue) which serves to only fragment the market for code hosting. An over-simplification is that they are open-sourcing to compete against and catch up to services like GitHub. The skeptic would say they are opening enough to get free labor AND increased market share to fuel new product development (aka Launchpad Enterprise). The fact that Sourceforge (the code) was free a long time ago, and went through free/non-free versions is an example of how money interests can trump freedom. I'd also say that the quality of the Sourceforge system would be much better if it were free (e.g. it doesn't support other version control systems). Sourceforge's TOS basically All your code are belong to us (you grant them a proprietary license [1]). I think it's a big plus to the community that we will once again have a free code hosting system. Maybe this time they won't follow the same path as Sourceforge. Or maybe not. Karl Fogel seems to be very much involved in this [2] and he was also very much involved (in Subversion and) CollabNet [3], so he would know the true intentions and dynamics at play. I guess what I'm saying is that either Canonical wants to be in the Code Hosting business, or not. I don't know. I'm hoping for the latter. What I do know is that we have room for improvement because there really aren't ANY free and complete code hosting systems [4]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourceforge#cite_note-4 [2] https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing#what [3] http://producingoss.com/cv/ [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities Risking being called on what free and complete means, I would venture to say that savannah.gnu.org and savannah.nongnu.org are very free (at least in the GNU sense of free), and complete enough for me to host at least one project on. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
Pam McLeod wrote: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I read this as the number of supported WIRED connections! Many of the wireless routers also have several wired ports. I really don't think this is talking about signal strength through the air - I've never heard of a WAP which will support hundreds of wireless clients simultaneously. Yeah, I'm thinking that 20 is probably a conservative estimate, and so I'd better plan on at least two or three AP devices. I believe I can set them up on non-interfering channels and reach my target 25, possibly peak 35, without over-stressing the connections. There's going to have to be some empirical testing and we'll have to see as the space gets occupied what the distribution of 802-11g and 802-11n clients, how many folks have PDA/cellphones/widgets that also use the wireless. Thanks, too, Pam for the home-model vs. the Cisco Enterprise comparison. I'll let folks know how it works out. This is from the Cisco KB Wiki: Solution # K47828638 Title How many wireless clients an access point can support. Resolution The Access Point can support up to 20 clients (PC) or 7/8 phones comfortably, which depends on the application. The AP has the physical capacity to handle 2048 MAC addresses. However, because the AP is a shared medium and acts as a wireless hub, the performance of each user decreases as the number of users increases on an individual AP. Ideally, not more than 24 clients ... I have tried deploying a laptop cart of 18-22 laptops with Linksys units (this was 3 years ago), and it was a dismal failure. I got, at most, 14 on simultaneously ... when I deployed 3 AP's in the same room, I could get a few more on. My understanding is that home-quality units are just not powerful enough to deal with that many clients. Other schools have had better success, and it must be due to the construction of the building and the quality of the spaces in which the APs are used. At that point, we deployed a Cisco Aironet enterprise AP (they are up around $500) and it was very successful. We often have one laptop left out, but usually it just lags behind about 10 minutes (typically, we start up all of the laptops at once). It is POE, so we provide the power at the switch and did not need to run an electrical outlet out to the location of the AP. Since then, we have moved to Aruba Wireless school-wide. We have a centralized controller (less expensive than Cisco) and it configures our APs centrally. We are working towards overlapping coverage (1 AP) in each area of the building in which we provide wireless access. Pam McLeod Director of Technology, Alton School District ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Codehosting was Re: Launchpad to be free
I've been hosting my project on sourceforge. I don't know that it is the best place to host it, but at the time I was looking at project hosting, I saw either that or savannah, and savannah had just had extensive down time (I think it was a couple years ago) So I wasn't sure they would be able to keep the servers up reliably enough. Also, Wograld is based on the crossfire engine code, and since Crossfire is hosted on sourceforge, I felt it made the most sense to host it there. However, sourceforge documentation was really bad so I was never able to figure out quite a few things. I know they have since revamped the site, so I am not quite sure how it is now. I intend to get back into it once I get all settled in from my move (I moved out of New Hampshire, Nashua was just too stressful for me and my husband after he lost his job there was no reason to be there anymore.) - Original Message From: Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com To: Greg Rundlett greg_rundl...@harvard.edu Cc: GNHLUG gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:22:21 AM Subject: Re: Launchpad to be free Greg Rundlett wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.comwrote: On 02/27/2009 08:35 PM, Jarod Wilson wrote: Somewhere or another there was an explanation in writing... Oh, there, found it: Ah: There are two components, Soyuz and Codehosting, that we're keeping internal. They're part of Canonical's secret sauce in business areas that we care a lot about, and for now the costs to us of opening them up outweigh the benefits. My simple interpretation is that Canonical sees a benefit in opening (most) of Launchpad which should strengthen their position in the marketplace. Once their leadership position is further solidified, they have less risk with completing what they started (Mark Shuttleworth said he would like to open the source to Launchpad a long time ago). The alternate - assuming they were even ready - seems like it would risk people opening dozens of code hosting sites (seeking ad revenue) which serves to only fragment the market for code hosting. An over-simplification is that they are open-sourcing to compete against and catch up to services like GitHub. The skeptic would say they are opening enough to get free labor AND increased market share to fuel new product development (aka Launchpad Enterprise). The fact that Sourceforge (the code) was free a long time ago, and went through free/non-free versions is an example of how money interests can trump freedom. I'd also say that the quality of the Sourceforge system would be much better if it were free (e.g. it doesn't support other version control systems). Sourceforge's TOS basically All your code are belong to us (you grant them a proprietary license [1]). I think it's a big plus to the community that we will once again have a free code hosting system. Maybe this time they won't follow the same path as Sourceforge. Or maybe not. Karl Fogel seems to be very much involved in this [2] and he was also very much involved (in Subversion and) CollabNet [3], so he would know the true intentions and dynamics at play. I guess what I'm saying is that either Canonical wants to be in the Code Hosting business, or not. I don't know. I'm hoping for the latter. What I do know is that we have room for improvement because there really aren't ANY free and complete code hosting systems [4]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourceforge#cite_note-4 [2] https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing#what [3] http://producingoss.com/cv/ [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities Risking being called on what free and complete means, I would venture to say that savannah.gnu.org and savannah.nongnu.org are very free (at least in the GNU sense of free), and complete enough for me to host at least one project on. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com writes: On 02/24/2009 02:55 PM, Paul Lussier wrote: My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. Can you just enter gallons as dollars? No, because I want to track both my costs and my usage. In Ledger I can simply do this: 08/08 BJ's Wholesale Club Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 13.569 @ $ 3.669 Assets:BankAccounts:Checking$ -49.78 Then I can run a report like this to see total gas consumption: $ ledger -f ledger.dat -p 2008 bal fuel GAL 316.516 Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 316.516 p...@whozit - /Users/pll/personal/finance/ledger#[949] Or this when I want to report actual costs for gas: $ ledger -f usaack.dat -p 2008 -V bal fuel $ 1,161.30 Expenses:Auto:Fuel $ 1,161.30 I use this to track heating oil, gasoline, electricity, and pretty much anything else that has a frequently fluctuating dollar value. I haven't yet figured out how to track things like this in GnuCash. Other things I've done with ledger, not easily recreated in GnuCash (or any other finance package that I know of) is to track my commuting costs between driving, taking the T and the Commuter Rail. For example when I ride my bike to work during the summer months, I drive more and take the T less, but I also have to purchase separate Commuter Rail and T passes since I didn't get monthly passes during that time. I can easily track my T and Commuter Rail rides as a currency: 05/31 MBTA Liabilities:CreditCards:USAA $ -93.00 Assets:Commute:Train CR 12.00 06/04 Train to North Station Assets:Commute:Train CR -1.00 Expenses:Commute:Train 06/04 Green Line to Lechmere Assets:Commute:Train T -1.00 Expenses:Commute:Train 06/06 Commute Home to Bedford Assets:Auto:Fuel GAL -1.414 @ $2.999 Expenses:Commute:Fuel 06/06 Commute Bedford to Home Assets:Auto:Fuel GAL -1.414 @ $2.999 Expenses:Commute:Fuel Now I can track my commuting only costs: $ ledger -f BikeCommute.dat bal $ -135.23436 CR 5.00 GAL -132.812 T 1.50 Assets $ 662.708 CR 43.00 T 5.00 Expenses $ -480.500 Liabilities $ 46.973893224 CR 48.00 GAL -132.812 T 6.50 Which tells me I've put 480.50 on my credit card, I've got 1.5 T rides left, and 5 Commuter Rail rides left, and I've used 132 Gallons of gas. And I can quickly figure out the cost basis: $ ledger -f BikeCommute.dat -VB bal $ -663.15 CR 19.00 T -5.00 Assets $ 662.71 CR 43.00 T 5.00 Expenses Telling me I've spent a total of $662.71 in commuting thus far: consisting of 43 Commuter Rail rides, and 5 T rides. The other thing I *really* like about ledger is that it's file is a simple ascii text file. I have over 8 years of financial data across more than 12 different accounts in a total of 4MB. For comparisson, the last time I seriously used GnuCash (2000/2001ish), which was right after they decided to move from plain ascii text to an XML-based file. My Y2000 GnuCash.xac data file, for only the year 2000 weighs in at 1.7M. Ledger is both smaller, more flexible, and suits my needs for the wacky things I like to do better than GnuCash, which, like most graphical applications, traps you into fairly restrictive interface, and takes significantly more time to load up. Please don't take this a slight towards GnuCash. It's not. I think it's a fantastic app if what you require is a GUI like thing that replaces something similar in the Windows world like MSM or Quicken. My requirements are significantly different than most people. My two biggest reasons for preferring ledger are: - I need to be able to simply, quickly enter lots of transactions. A GUI is seldom going to allow me to work at the speed I desire. Ledger allows me to enter data from within emacs, from the command line, via e-mail/procmail/shell-script (admittedly, I've never done the latter, though I've thought about setting such a hook up many times). - I need to be able enter data from multiple locations without waiting for a GUI. I tend to enter data from my laptop and from work. Since I can ssh into my server from both locations and access emacs within my screen session, it's simple to enter my data in one location and not worry about sync'ing things up. Also, being able to run things like perl, sed/awk, and grep on my data files and have it spit out something meaningful is a huge win for me most people won't care about. Also, the fact that ledger has python bindings is another win, given that I'm
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
--- On Sat, 2/28/09, Chris fj1...@gmail.com wrote: From: Chris fj1...@gmail.com Subject: Disk imaging for XP system To: Greater NH Linux User Group gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 10:16 AM Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? I used dd straigt from the linux rescue cd. Migrating windows XP partitions as well as linux partitions to a new larger harddrive for my old Dell 600m one hard drive in the laptop another in an external USB enclosure. I like Knoppix 5.1 for this as well but it was having a problem with old RedHat 9 partitions. I've gotten away from Partition Magic it was not able to read all linux partitions. dd Unix Power Tools, or Knoppix Hacks. Michael Nolin Embedded Solutions Unlimited, LLC Thanks Chris -- IBA #15631 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Paul Lussier wrote: Bill McGonigle b...@bfccomputing.com writes: On 02/24/2009 02:55 PM, Paul Lussier wrote: My goal is to track the gasoline usage, not the cost of the gasoline I use. The former doesn't vary much, whereas the latter varies drastically. Can you just enter gallons as dollars? No, because I want to track both my costs and my usage. In Ledger I can simply do this: 08/08 BJ's Wholesale Club Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 13.569 @ $ 3.669 Assets:BankAccounts:Checking$ -49.78 Then I can run a report like this to see total gas consumption: $ ledger -f ledger.dat -p 2008 bal fuel GAL 316.516 Expenses:Auto:Fuel GAL 316.516 p...@whozit - /Users/pll/personal/finance/ledger#[949] OK. I'll ask the obvious next question - where did this 'ledger' command come from? --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
Chris wrote: I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? We use Acronis, a worthy replacement for our beloved, lamented PartitionMagic. Acronis does support SATA, IDE, USB, etc. A very nice tool. Acronis TrueImage Workstation sounds like the specific product you want. If you want to stick to Linux tools, I have used GPartEd with good results. I use it from SystemRescue CD. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
Ted Roche wrote: I'm looking at setting up a caf//-style space where somewhere between 10 and 25 people will be working on their laptop. I'd be bringing in an internet connection, likely a Comcast 16/2, and I anticipate most folks will be surfing with 802-11g or n (draft). Mostly surfing, with occasional file uploads, YouTube viral videos. Twittering, or debugging a misbehaving Drupal app. Can 25 people share a single wireless access point, or will more than one be needed? Would a consumer-grade WRT54G or equivalent be suitable? For simplification, let's assume an open 40' x 50' space with fairly clear line-of-sight and no major physical obstacles. I recognize if there's a second space behind a brick wall they'll likely need their own WAP or a switched connection. I'm more concerned with the load on a single WAP. I've done mostly wired deployments or single AP layouts with a couple people, so I'm not sure where the loading will drag it down. Any insights on things to set up (DDWRT, traffic shaping) or avoid would be appreciated. I have successfully used Linksys WRT54GL with DDWRT or HyperWRT Thibor (the latter is deprecated I gather) firmware for about 40 concurrent users in three different settings: teachers in a training session, kids in a mobile lab setting, and a small cube farm with mixed engineers biz folk. I had no problems with simultaneous connections. The teachers and kids all were making Internet connections simultaneously for their training and testing (25-35 of them). I have also used Belkin (don't recollect the model) with stock firmware for a school with about 200 users. I have eight scattered around, plus two with stock WRT54G firmware. We used to have a lot of problems when we had older Linksys units, but most of the problem likely came from them moving the access points around, rather than from the equipment itself. They didn't have enough APs for the physical space and did not understand how to deal with wireless. (Several times we found three or four access points stacked on top of each other to, in the words of someone, "boost the signal.") Once we got the units evenly distributed and secured and configured the laptops properly, things have been running well. We did do some basic testing to ensure reasonable signal strength throughout the space when we positioned the units. Based on your physical dimensions, I would go with two, on non-overlapping channels, one at each end of the space. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
Chris wrote: Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? I did this on my wife's machine some time ago (thought it was IDE to IDE). Try g4l which is a bootable CD or USB stick. It should allow you to go disk-to-disk, then use gparted to expand the NTFS partition. Once you reboot XP, it will go through and do a disk check and you'll be set. -Mark ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: linux accounting software or cheap winxp
Bruce Dawson j...@codemeta.com writes: OK. I'll ask the obvious next question - where did this 'ledger' command come from? Err, apt-get install ledger ? Though I tend to compile from source. It's a John Wiegley production, so it should be available from his website, www.newartisans.com. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Stephen Ryan step...@sryanfamily.infowrote: I think this is the answer right here; wireless uses the same CSMA/CD algorithm that Ethernet does, so using WiFi is just like using the old unswitched hubs. Documents from a few years back talking about unswitched hubs reference a 30-40% limit on utilization; collisions end up limiting maximum performance to no more than that. For 802.11b, the problem is some what worse than the old wired hub, but 11a/g uses a slightly smarter algorithm that dramatically reduces the windows of opportunity for collisions. The AP acts like a bad traffic cop and yells clear to send to ever one at once, at which point there is a chance for collision. If there is a collision, some one is picked as the winner and gets the next few time slices. After a bit, there is another free-for-all, and another winner is picked. This happens hundreds of times per second and is some times adjustable in the advanced wireless settings, but you probably never need to mess with it. -- Alan Johnson a...@datdec.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Stephen Ryan step...@sryanfamily.info wrote: I think this is the answer right here; wireless uses the same CSMA/CD algorithm that Ethernet does From what I've read, not quite: It's CSMA (Carrier Sense Multiple Access) without the CD (Collision Detect). Most 802.11 stuff can't detect collisions, because a radio which is transmitting can't tell if another radio is also transmitting on the same frequency at the same time. Like with walkie-talkies; when you're transmitting, the receiver is disabled. So collisions hurt even more because the equipment can't even tell there's been one. I dunno about the stuff which uses multiple transceivers. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Pam McLeod pmcl...@alton.k12.nh.us wrote: ... I have tried deploying a laptop cart of 18-22 laptops with Linksys units (this was 3 years ago), and it was a dismal failure. ... ... At that point, we deployed a Cisco Aironet enterprise AP (they are up around $500) and it was very successful. ... I haven't done this myself, but I lurk on a few lists like isp-wireless and nanog, and what others have said concurs with the above: Quality of the equipment makes a huge difference. The SOHO stuff is designed for a handful of light users. The commercial stuff costs more but can cope with larger groups. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Stephen Ryan step...@sryanfamily.info wrote: I think this is the answer right here; wireless uses the same CSMA/CD algorithm that Ethernet does From what I've read, not quite: It's CSMA (Carrier Sense Multiple Access) without the CD (Collision Detect). Most 802.11 stuff can't detect collisions, because a radio which is transmitting can't tell if another radio is also transmitting on the same frequency at the same time. Like with walkie-talkies; when you're transmitting, the receiver is disabled. So collisions hurt even more because the equipment can't even tell there's been one. I dunno about the stuff which uses multiple transceivers. You just tweaked my memory, Ben. I avoided using specific abbreviations before because I was straining to remember, but you got me most of the way: 11b does CSMA/CA (collision avoidance), where they listen to see if any one is transmitting and then give it a shot if all seems clear, but have no idea if they hit anyone, leaving it to TCP (or some similar protcal up the stack) to take care of it. This becomes inefficient very quickly as load increases. 11a/g does CDish stuff as I descibed before where the AP knows when a collission occurred and lets the clients know with a little more information who gets to go next. -- Alan Johnson a...@datdec.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Launchpad to be free
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Greg Rundlett greg_rundl...@harvard.edu wrote: Sourceforge's TOS basically All your code are belong to us (you grant them a proprietary license [1]). That's a bit much. Now, their TOS are confusing, no doubt about it. But in addition what you're looking at, they also state Except for Feedback ... COMPANY claims no ownership or control over any Content. You ... retain all intellectual property rights Certainly, at *NO* point, do they claim proprietary rights (ownership). Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia. They also qualify some of their licensing statements with ... on SourceForge.net. It reads like an overzealous lawyer trying to make sure they have the right to actually do what they're trying to do, i.e., copy and distribute content. Did you know that by posting content (like your message) to the GNHLUG server, you granting anyone the right to publish, duplicate, and/or redistribute your content? We do that because otherwise running this list might be considered copyright infringement. http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/LegalNotice -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Ben Scott dragonh...@gmail.com wrote: I haven't done this myself, but I lurk on a few lists like isp-wireless and nanog, and what others have said concurs with the above: Quality of the equipment makes a huge difference. The SOHO stuff is designed for a handful of light users. The commercial stuff costs more but can cope with larger groups. This used to be very true in the 11b days as a few manufacturers, Cisco included, did the 11a/g style CSMA on 11b as a proprietary value-add. This was so successful that it became part of the 11a/g specs. Some vendors even developed some super sweet polling algorithms (no collisions as clients only speak when spoken too), the jists of which are part of the WiMAX standard. But I digress. I'd stick to Bruce's link as a guide to modern LAN gear. If you want to talk WAN, which is what we isp-wireless folks are more concerned with, we have a whole other world of things to talk about. =) WiWAN in very breif: polling is king for point to multi point, but mesh works well with 11a/g(/n?) style CSMA/CD. -- Alan Johnson a...@datdec.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Mark Komarinski mkomarin...@wayga.orgwrote: Chris wrote: Hello All I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that, I have tried Norton Ghost (2003) but that can't see the SATA drive, and I have also tried Powerquest partition magic image center with no luck because that barfs on some directory entry. WIll dd or some other program do the job or will I have to try to find some other package? I've played around with Clonezilla. It's a live CD that will image the used part of a Windows or Linux system to a fileserver (ftp/nfs/cifs/SSH host). If it doesn't know the filesystem, it will dd the whole disk. If you do that, you can't shrink the disk when you unimage. They have additions that will multicast to image multiple systems like ghost can. I did this on my wife's machine some time ago (thought it was IDE to IDE). Try g4l which is a bootable CD or USB stick. It should allow you to go disk-to-disk, then use gparted to expand the NTFS partition. Once you reboot XP, it will go through and do a disk check and you'll be set. I've heard of g4l as well. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Disk imaging for XP system
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Chris fj1...@gmail.com wrote: I have an XP system which I want to migrate from a 250GB IDE drive to a 500GB SATA drive, is there a live CD and package that would allow me to do that ... I've used the partimage tool to clone partitions, and parted with the gparted GUI front-end to resize/move them, always with good results so far. Used it on partitions from Windows 2000 and XP. Haven't tried Vista. Both tools are included on the bootable SysRescueCD (http://www.sysresccd.org/). -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:17 PM, Alan Johnson a...@datdec.com wrote: Quality of the equipment makes a huge difference. This used to be very true in the 11b days I can't speak as to the accuracy of the discussions, but they have been much more recent than that, up to and including within the past 12 months. Given that I've personally seen LinkSys's stuff crap out under a 20 person load on *Ethernet* (let alone wireless), I have no trouble believing that a $500 AP does better than a $50 one. This isn't intended as a dig against LinkSys. It's designed for the SOHO environment. Using it for more is abusing the design; one can't complain at that point. Not that my then-client understood that; hence the reason I have first-hand experience -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: How many laptops to a wireless AP?
Alan Johnson wrote: On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com wrote: I have successfully used Linksys WRT54GL with DDWRT or HyperWRT Thibor (the latter is deprecated I gather) firmware for about 40 concurrent users in three different settings: teachers in a training session, kids in a mobile lab setting, and a small cube farm with mixed engineers biz folk. I had no problems with simultaneous connections. The teachers and kids all were making Internet connections simultaneously for their training and testing (25-35 of them). I have also used Belkin (don't recollect the model) with stock firmware for a school with about 200 users. I have eight scattered around, plus two with stock WRT54G firmware. We used to have a lot of problems when we had older Linksys units, but most of the problem likely came from them moving the access points around, rather than from the equipment itself. They didn't have enough APs for the physical space and did not understand how to deal with wireless. (Several times we found three or four access points stacked on top of each other to, in the words of someone, "boost the signal.") Once we got the units evenly distributed and secured and configured the laptops properly, things have been running well. We did do some basic testing to ensure reasonable signal strength throughout the space when we positioned the units. Based on your physical dimensions, I would go with two, on non-overlapping channels, one at each end of the space Looking only at the wireless network layer, 802.11b is bad at handling multiple active clients and will only get you 5Mbps of application throughput when you have an 11Mbps connection over the air. It should handle 10-20 active clients on a ~1Mbps back haul fairly nicely since that leaves 4Mbps to be wasted on collisions and retransmits. I had forgotten to mention that we had eliminated all the 11b we could in that 200 users network. That definitely helped a lot. 11a/g starts with a bigger pipe of ~14Mbps of application throughput on a 36Mbps+ connection over the air and is better at sharing it. If every one has full signal and with 54Mbps of on-the-air speed, that gives you 18Mbps to waste on collisions. You should easily be able to serve 40 clients (as mentioned by Dan) sharing a 12Mbps connection. You might not want to play Doom on it, but if you are mostly talking about web browsing and email, that kind of bursty, not-so-latency-sensitivity traffic should be fine. In fact, I would think you could get 100 or more users sharing such a connection. If you are limited to 6Mbps back-haul, and disable 11b, then I'd bet on a pretty smooth ride all 100+. 11n varies widely in application throughput by device (did that ever come out of draft?), but I have not heard anything less than 100Mbps. I don't know for sure, but I am pretty sure it uses the same sharing as 11a/g. I would be shocked if it is worse. At a max of 200 simultaneous routed connections (a la Bruce Dawson's link) you are going to hit that before you max out 11n clients. So, my suggestion is that 1 11g router on a clean channel should more than meet your needs if the guts behind the radio can handle the connections. Go for 11n if you expect that kind of client, but remember that 2.4Ghz 11n traffic will crush any 11b/g traffic competing for the same bandwidth on a nearby access point. Same goes for 5Ghz 11n vs 11a. Not really your problem, but we Linux geeks are all about play-nice, right? Also, 11n uses twice the bandwidth per channel, so you need 2 of the 3 non-overlapping channels of 11b/g to run 11n at 2.4Ghz. This means you will aways be using some of channel 6, the middle of which is the resonant frequency of H2O used by microwave ovens. (This is why the 2.4Ghz band is unlicensed.) I have not heard of microwave ovens causing noticeable problems with 11n at 2.4Ghz, but they sure can screw up 11g and they crush any 11b within range. I've definitely seen problems with 2.4GHz cordless phones taking out 11g. Never noticed microwaves doing it though. As for picking a clean channel and playing nice, run net stumbler before you buy anything just to see the situation, unless you are sure you are clean in this location. It is free, so it does not hurt to check anyway. Kind of a fun tool to play with. It even cracks WEP keys for you! Or is that Air Snort... It has been a while since I played with either. In a perfect world, everyone runs 5Ghz 11n and leaves 2.4 for other technologies, but unless you are in a corporate setup with bucks to blow on new client WNICs, then I'm guessing that won't happen. =) My experience with 11n at 2.4 GHz is limited. It works nicely at 5 GHz. I was (operative word, "was") in a situation where we could have switched everyone at our client to 11n, but then the economy happened and that project is shelved now. Oh, and it is worth mentioning that Linksys hardware runs on open-source Linux
