Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 6/1/06, Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must say I agree with Ben, I did the same search through text books, manuals when I was bored, just to see what was there, I think that is missing in computer searches. You've never wandered on Google? Read a post followed some random links to similar topics? Followed the See Also section of a manpage? Wandered Wikipedia? While I agree with Ben and Richard, and Tom, I think the flaw presented here is the original statement that discovery is unique to computers, and the assertion/implication that computer searches are somehow deficient in the area of discovery. Tom pointed out some great means of discovery, another I find quite educational are Wikis, especially those I can surf on my cell-phone browser. I've spent many a train ride surfing the emacs-wiki, the cliki (Common Lisp wiki), and countless others just discovering things. Not to mention places like CPAN, slashdot, etc. Discovery is something innate to the person, not something any given media has or doesn't have. My wife has 3 or 4 books she's read literally 100s of times. When she doesn't have anything good to read, she grabs one of these, and randomly opens to a page and begins reading. She claims she finds something new every time she does this, from books which she's read cover-to-cover countless times. The dictionary[1] definition of discovery, which states: 1. The act or an instance of discovering. 2. Something discovered. Even implies that it is something done by a *person*, not something which is dependant upon a thing. Look at Columbus, the desire for exploration and discovery were so strong in him that it led him to risk the very lives of himself and 3 ships worth of people for a non-existant trade-route! Footnotes: [1] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discovery -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 5/31/06, Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess my point is that computers aren't a magic pill.Kids willlearn if their parents spend the time with them to teach them.Itseems increasingly more common that parents (in this country at least)take to some sort of electronic substitute for what have been their traditional jobs when it comes to teaching their children. We don'thave time to sit and read with our kids anymore, but have no problemplopping them in front of the computer so we don't have to missAmerican Idol. I'm not arguing that there's no place for such programs (ReaderRabbit, etc.).But a computer will never be as effective a teachingtool for young readers as their parents.It just seems to me to be aconfusion in priority. At the risk of sounding indignant, I think you're over reacting. My son (2.5 yrs) seems to treat the computer all the things he does on it as just another toy. Sure I let him at it while I watch TV sometimes. I also let him play with legos, the chalk board, running around the house, the swing, etc. In some ways the computer is better because it interacts/reacts better. Just like I'm a better jungle gym becaus I react when he crawls all over me.The computer is just another toy. Sometimes we sit down together, sometimes he wants to do it himself.
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 6/1/06, Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of sounding indignant, I think you're over reacting. My son (2.5 yrs) seems to treat the computer all the things he does on it as just another toy. Sure I let him at it while I watch TV sometimes. I also let him play with legos, the chalk board, running around the house, the swing, etc. In some ways the computer is better because it interacts/reacts better. Just like I'm a better jungle gym becaus I react when he crawls all over me. The computer is just another toy. Sometimes we sit down together, sometimes he wants to do it himself. I appreciate your thoughts. My response, though, is to the attitude that we *have* to get computers into the hands/laps of kids. Especially those who are behind (like Benson's laptop for kids program, for example). I have no problems with kids using computers. Heck, I just put one in my 4 year old's room not too long ago. But the notion that a computer is the solution to all that ails the education process is one that mystifies me. Establish strong fundamental skills and build on them, rather than dropping a toy, as you aptly described it, in their laps. -- The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety. -Eric Sevareid, American News Commentator (1912 - 1992) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
A number of years ago, the issue of requiring each student have a laptop at a private school came up. While this is quite different from public schools in the US and in third world countries, some of the arguments are still very valid. Back at that time, some of the teachers objected because they could not afford to buy decent computers. While, in this country, I would assume that most teachers can afford at least a relatively up-to-date desktop, this may be an issue in third world countries, and it is important that the teachers have systems for themselves. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
a key skill pretty unique to computers is learning through searching and discovery vs memorizing Jonathan ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 6/1/06, Jonathan Linowes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a key skill pretty unique to computers is learning through searching and discovery vs memorizing I disagree. Before computerized dictionaries came along, whenever I went to search through a dictionary to look up a word, I almost always discovered a few new interesting words while I was at it. I also recall flipping idly through my textbooks at school during boring lectures, and reading stuff that looked interesting. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge
I must say I agree with Ben, I did the same search through text books, manuals when I was bored, just to see what was there, I think that is missing in computer searches. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Scott Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 3:33 PM To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On 6/1/06, Jonathan Linowes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a key skill pretty unique to computers is learning through searching and discovery vs memorizing I disagree. Before computerized dictionaries came along, whenever I went to search through a dictionary to look up a word, I almost always discovered a few new interesting words while I was at it. I also recall flipping idly through my textbooks at school during boring lectures, and reading stuff that looked interesting. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 6/1/06, Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must say I agree with Ben, I did the same search through text books,manuals when I was bored, just to see what was there, I think that ismissing in computer searches.You've never wandered on Google? Read a post followed some random links to similar topics? Followed the See Also section of a manpage? Wandered Wikipedia? It's just organized differently then a book. You can skip across the content any way you like.
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 6/1/06, Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/1/06, Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must say I agree with Ben, I did the same search through text books, manuals when I was bored, just to see what was there, I think that is missing in computer searches. You've never wandered on Google? Read a post followed some random links to similar topics? Followed the See Also section of a manpage? Wandered Wikipedia? Indeed. I think curiosity and the desire to learn will always lead you to new discoveries, regardless of whether you're flipping pages in a book, clicking links in a browser, or just exploring the world around you. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Yes I have, but something about a book, in class or where ever when you dont have access to a internet connection. Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Buskey Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:00 PM To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On 6/1/06, Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must say I agree with Ben, I did the same search through text books, manuals when I was bored, just to see what was there, I think that is missing in computer searches. You've never wandered on Google? Read a post followed some random links to similar topics? Followed the See Also section of a manpage? Wandered Wikipedia? It's just organized differently then a book. You can skip across the content any way you like.
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Jon maddog Hall wrote: ... I am currently reading a book called Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond which shows how even some isolated societies collapsed when they did not take into account the global picture. The way of stopping illegal immigrants and to increase the number of US exports bought by other economies is to increase the buying power and standard of living of those other economies. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No. Ireland, Lichtenstein, and Malaysia are all examples of countries that have turned themselves from some of the poorest economies of the world to some of the strongest in less than twenty years. What is happening in East Timor right now is exactly what happened to some of the not-so ancient civilizations. The desperate plight of the needy overruns the ability of government to keep order. That presupposes, of course, that the government has an interest in doing what's best for its people. Many times more than not it is the governments that gets in the way of progress. I would imagine quite a few of these governments in the so-called 3rd world may actually fear its people becoming smarter and brighter and better educated. And this is not limited, of course, to the 3rd world as we very well know. One of my favorite cartoons of all time was in Walt Kelly's Pogo, when the title character was rowing a boat through the swamp they lived in and he said We have met the enemy, and he is us. In today's world there is no we and them, there is only us. Regards, maddog I might even put it at a more individual level and say the enemy is I. Technology without a comprehensive plan and realistic goals is just a waste of time. And I grow very skeptical when there seems to be more emphasis on technology than a realistic plan. We see this all the time in our own public school system, over and over again, and no one seems to learn from the failures and mistakes of the past. There is a reason why my kids are currently being homeschooled. Nothing much has *really* changed since we ourselves were in grade school, and if anything, it's gotten worse. It's a cheap trick to just push technology and cross one's fingers that it will magically solve all the problems. Computers have been pushed into the US public school system, for example, and yet US schools still languish way behind the rest of the world. Furthermore, it was done at the expense of some other programs, such as art and music in some regions. And yet I'd say it is art and literature that defines who we are as a culture and a people. Meanwhile teachers still struggle to use and understand the technology -- typically the students themselves are much more savvy. What is wrong with this picture? If the student is smarter than the teacher, then what's the point? And we are a rich nation. Hmmm Actually, despite my cynicism, I do see a potential that the so-called 3rd world will better master the new technology that us rich countries do. As long as the individuals are free enough to explore the technology and it doesn't become mired in bureaucracy, there are possibilities. *I recently bought off the net a USB flash drive that holds 2 GB for $40. after rebate. My Brazilian friend told me that *IF* he could buy it in Brazil, it would cost the equivalent of between 200-300 USD. When I visited Belize a few years back, high-speed Internet access at the levels we now enjoy with Cable, DSL, and now Fios, was dreadfully expensive. We're talking $15000 BZE ($7500 USD) per *month* for a T1. This was back around 2000. The picture may be different now, but still. At the time Belize Telecom held a tight monopoly on *all* communication including the Internet. You were not even allowed to do satellite for linking to the Internet, believe it or not. The Belizian government allowed BTL to hold this monopoly for whatever the reason. Not quite as bad as the Bechtel water monopoly in Bolivia which let to the Bolivian Water War back in 2000, but still. Same company that Bush chose to help rebuild the infrastructure in Iraq. H... Get the governments out of the way and the people will do OK. -Fred ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Jeff Kinz wrote: On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: ... The original design called for a hand crank but it was determined that it would stress the frame too much. Current plans call for a foot pedal to produce power. None of the power plans require more than periodic power generation effort. :-) Flintstone Technology. ;-) Methinks someone has a pipe dream. I can just see it now. All of these villagers are given these PCs, which are dead after the first hour or two of use. But hey, I'm sure they'll find novel uses for dead PCs. Twenty years ago we had laptops that ran off double A batteries for days, (and for some people, weeks) at a time. I'm fairly certain we can do better than two hours. We'll see. :-) Like the OLPC units those old laptops used low power display technology, miserly CPU's and used software that was much smarter about what machine resources it used and how it used them. And one more interesting parallel - neither those old laptops nor the current OLPC's used ANY rotating storage. Ok, there is hope. Hard drives sucks -- power! --Fred ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 11:08:01PM -0400, Bill Ricker wrote: Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. Right on Jeff. My daughter loved Reader Rabbit. I credit Reader Rabbit and Harry Potter between them for my daughter being literate. You have to give her parents and teachers some credit too. :) Of course, this is the daughter that likes Windows XP Home and fills the harddrive with WMA soundfiles to my shame, so there is a downside to Reader Rabbit. Which would be solved by the $100 laptop, no MS Windows ... You could run reader rabbit under wine, but then the wma files might work too. :) -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 5/30/06, Bill Ricker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. Right on Jeff. My daughter loved Reader Rabbit. I credit Reader Rabbit and Harry Potter between them for my daughter being literate. Of course, this is the daughter that likes Windows XP Home and fills the harddrive with WMA soundfiles to my shame, so there is a downside to Reader Rabbit. Which would be solved by the $100 laptop, no MS Windows ... I guess my point is that computers aren't a magic pill. Kids will learn if their parents spend the time with them to teach them. It seems increasingly more common that parents (in this country at least) take to some sort of electronic substitute for what have been their traditional jobs when it comes to teaching their children. We don't have time to sit and read with our kids anymore, but have no problem plopping them in front of the computer so we don't have to miss American Idol. I'm not arguing that there's no place for such programs (Reader Rabbit, etc.). But a computer will never be as effective a teaching tool for young readers as their parents. It just seems to me to be a confusion in priority. -Mike- -- The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety. -Eric Sevareid, American News Commentator (1912 - 1992) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 01:26:22PM -0400, Michael Costolo wrote: I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or add would make them better at reading or math. Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 09:04:14PM -0400, Paul Lussier wrote: If my kids didn't play with the physical ones, I'd have much less opportunity to play with that stuff myself :) And let me tell you, it's *FUN* to build big block towers with your kids and knock them down! [yes it is, and the older you get the bigger your blocks get too :-)] [Although we knock them down less often. Kids need physical activities [to help their brains develop just as much as they need mental ] [activity] Yep. Getting computers to people in third world countries. Right. Benson, crazy though he is, was foolish enough to think we should take care of people in our country before helping other countries people who can't read and write. That whole Charity begins at home thing is just so, well, un-PC :) While the emphasis for the OLPC project is third world deployment, One of the people Negroponte has had many discussion with is MA Governor Mitt Romney. Romney wants to deploy the OLPC systems to Public schools in Massachusetts. I assume this meets your criteria of taking of things at home to some degree. Should the rest of the governors in the US do the same thing? Sure. http://www.fcw.com/article90958-09-29-05-Web A laptop for every student BY Dibya Sarkar Published on Sept. 29, 2005 Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney wants every middle and high school student in the state to get a laptop computer. -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 5/30/06, Jeff Kinz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 01:26:22PM -0400, Michael Costolo wrote: I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or add would make them better at reading or math. Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. Jeff, I never implied that kids couldn't use them to learn. But generations of us learned rather well with books. Books that are relatively inexpensive, don't require power, or break when you drop them. Math in particular hasn't really changed (nor has reading), particularly at the grade school level, so (math, reading) books remain essentially up to date regardless of how long you have them. Laptops in particular are expensive, require power, break (often catastrophically) when you drop them, and no one wants last year's slow, bulky models. How uncool... And apparently the much less expensive desktops just won't work here? If these are the hoops we have to jump through to get kids to learn it is a rather sad commentary on the state of our society. And our ability/willingness to parent. -Mike- Father of a 2 and a 4 year old. -- The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety. -Eric Sevareid, American News Commentator (1912 - 1992) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. The OLPC units have built in wi-fi mesh capability This only means that the units can network with each-other on a local basis. However for longer distance internet connectivity this project: http://www.green-wifi.org/ does exactly what you are looking for and is designed to work with the OLPC units. These routers come with their own Solar panel designed and built for deployment to these more rugged environments Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. The original design called for a hand crank but it was determined that it would stress the frame too much. Current plans call for a foot pedal to produce power. None of the power plans require more than periodic power generation effort. :-) Methinks someone has a pipe dream. I can just see it now. All of these villagers are given these PCs, which are dead after the first hour or two of use. But hey, I'm sure they'll find novel uses for dead PCs. Twenty years ago we had laptops that ran off double A batteries for days, (and for some people, weeks) at a time. I'm fairly certain we can do better than two hours. Like the OLPC units those old laptops used low power display technology, miserly CPU's and used software that was much smarter about what machine resources it used and how it used them. And one more interesting parallel - neither those old laptops nor the current OLPC's used ANY rotating storage. -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 04:32:04PM -0400, Richard A Sharpe wrote: I'd support this project if it were to get a laptop in every household in the USA but third world I don't think so, let's start thinking about taking care of our own first the rest of the world. Mitt Romney has already introduced a bill to distribute an OLPC to every schoolchild in MA. I guess you'd better start a letter writing campaign in NH right away. the OLPC project is willing to work with any agency that wants to put the units in the hands of kids. -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. Speech Recognition Technology was used to create this e-mail ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Sat, May 27, 2006 at 10:27:43PM -0400, David Ecklein wrote: I don't understand this fixation on laptops. These are commodities for the affluent, costing twice as much when new as desktops. They have far less upgrade capability, the screens are delicate and hard to repair, the mouse and keyboard are compromises. The cases are fragile and often have proprietary form factors and parts, inhibiting inexpensive repairs. The sole asset of a laptop is portability, which many college students have found turns into a liability: they are one of the most stolen items on campus. Hi David, Your idea of what a laptop computers totally matches the current image designed and promoted by the people marketing to modern American office place right now. It's a status toy that somewhat resembles the image that Italian sports cars used to have in the '60s and '70s. Expensive high status toys which perform some functions marvelously well but spend a great deal of time being repaired and paid for. Fortunately there's more than one way to do it. The laptop units being designed by the one laptop per child unit are completely different in every way from the properties that you described above. It's just possible that the man who originally started MIT's media lab might have some unique ideas about how to approach creating a portable, rugged computing unit that consumes very little power. I hope you take the time to take a look at the one laptop per child wiki. Its very enlightening. The unit has unique ideas and of course, since there is no profit margin that needs to be satisfied to build the unit the acquisition cost is tremendously reduced. There are currently thin client units available on the market that are retailing for around $150. These units, in some ways have larger more powerful configurations than the OLPC units. And, given modern marketing costs and the necessary profit margins as well as the cost of sales etc. yada yada I would be willing to bet you that the cost of production for those thin client units is somewhere between 60 and $80, or even less IMHO, this laptop promotion is being done for reasons other than the benefit of school children, whether here or abroad. I would rather see an effort mounted to refurbish the many usable desktops that are going to the dump every day. The participation of high school computer and science clubs could be enlisted; there is more standardization with desktops than with laptops, and you don't need special tools or skills with the latter. Since flat screens are trendy and recently relatively affordable, new CRT monitors are selling for a song, usable used ones are so plentiful the Salvation Army and Goodwill no longer accepts them. I thought the rise of Linux would make recycling desktops an obvious project (an OS not as demanding as, say, XP), but now I am not so sure. As my Filipina mother-in-law used to say, common sense is not so common. Dave Ecklein - Original Message - From: Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge I'd support this project if it were to get a laptop in every household in the USA but third world I don't think so, let's start thinking about taking care of our own first the rest of the world. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:27 PM To: Fred Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Er. The machines are running Linux -- Fedora Core or some RedHat variant? -- and the machines are designed to create ad-hoc wireless networks. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Hand cranks or other similar alternative power options have always been the plan for the $100 OLPC laptops. The earlier marketing materials have always included pictures including a hand crank. There's ongoing discussion within the project as to how to accomodate the power needs of the laptop without depending on people
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
David Ecklein wrote: Perhaps I am talking apples and oranges here, in an effort to introduce a note of skepticism. Does anyone have more detailed specs on these Model-T laptops that must be cranked? http://laptop.org/ I haven't been following the project closely, but attended a presentation about it 6-12 months ago that discussed some of the goals and challenges of the project. Some of the requirements (as listed at that time) that caught my attention were no moving parts, and possibly a sealed case, especially no fans to suck in dirt and dust. From what I've heard they bear very little resemblance to what most of us think of when we hear laptop. - Heather ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Tue, May 30, 2006 at 09:10:53AM -0400, Michael Costolo wrote: On 5/30/06, Jeff Kinz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 01:26:22PM -0400, Michael Costolo wrote: I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or add would make them better at reading or math. Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. I never implied that kids couldn't use them to learn. But generations Michael, I never said that you implied that. You said, and I quote from above I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or add would make them better at reading or math. And I said: Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. For many people, children and adults, the immediate interaction and clever presentation of both concepts and skill drills available on a computer make the task of learning new things faster and easier. Why? One of the major ingredients of excellent learning software has always been the fun factor. The two examples which I listed for you above both have excellent fun factor. of us learned rather well with books. Books that are relatively inexpensive, don't require power, or break when you drop them. Math in particular hasn't really changed (nor has reading), particularly at the grade school level, so (math, reading) books remain essentially up to date regardless of how long you have them. Books are great things, I have a few thousand of them here in my house. Unfortunately books are not expandable, books cannot interact, books cannot teach except in the most static fashion by presentation of information. Yes generations of people have learned very well with books. And before those generations many more generations learned very well with parchment, or papyrus, or clay. Which we clearly should never have moved away from the first place. After all what's the difference between a chunk of clay, and a nice lightweight hardbound edition of Mooney's reading primer? Right off the bat the OLPC unit has an advantage over books which is insurmountable. it can carry many books simultaneously, and can present information dynamically and interactively. As for your claim that books are inexpensive, for the cost of three good technology books I can purchase one OLPC unit. And I'm willing to bet you that O'Reilly publishing will let you insert a number of their technology books into the OLPC units for free as part of their contribution to the project. However their books are probably not appropriate for the children that the project is targeted at. One aspect of the OLPC project that you are likely unaware of the curriculum/texts efforts which is trying to include educational books with the OLPC units - for ZERO cost. As for your claim that these things will drop when you break them, please go and read more about the OLPC units. These are not the same type of thing that you go down to Staples and buy off-the-shelf. It pains me to see this misconception continuously regurgitated. These units are designed from scratch for use by children. If a ruggedized case is not the first design requirement then everyone in the project has gone completely mental. Laptops in particular are expensive, require power, break (often catastrophically) when you drop them, and no one wants last year's slow, bulky models. How uncool... $100 is expensive? Interesting. Last years model? nope - there is only one model. break? Nope, not these. And apparently the much less expensive desktops just won't work here? Another misconception - Desktops would be more expensive than the OLPC units. desktop= $400 OLPC = $100 (maybe $130 initially). If these are the hoops we have to jump through to get kids to learn it is a rather sad commentary on the state of our society. And our ability/willingness to parent. Exactly what hoops are you referring to here Mike? Thats sounds like a criticism, but it has no content in it, just a judgmental phrase. These are not hoops we are jumping through to get kids to learn. This is a hoop we are jumping through to give more children the chance to learn better, or in some cases, to have the chance to learn at all. Most children in the underdeveloped regions of the world would love to be able to go to school. Many can't. Current education trends (in places where the public education is actually working) are pushing kids farther and faster than they have gone before. (sadly - this isn't true everywhere in the US, I wish it were). Your comment on parenting is on-target. Educators have learned that no matter what they do if the parents aren't re-enforcing learning at home, the kids never do as well. The OLPC UNIT can help children learn better by giving them a better tool to use. They can access information more
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Please go see reader Rabbit or Math Blaster in action with kids who are in Kindergarten through fourth grade. Then it will be clear to you. Right on Jeff. My daughter loved Reader Rabbit. I credit Reader Rabbit and Harry Potter between them for my daughter being literate. Of course, this is the daughter that likes Windows XP Home and fills the harddrive with WMA soundfiles to my shame, so there is a downside to Reader Rabbit. Which would be solved by the $100 laptop, no MS Windows ... -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On May 27, 2006, at 10:27 PM, David Ecklein wrote: I don't understand this fixation on laptops. These are commodities for the affluent, costing twice as much when new as desktops. They have far less upgrade capability, the screens are delicate and hard to repair, the mouse and keyboard are compromises. The cases are fragile and often have proprietary form factors and parts, inhibiting inexpensive repairs. The sole asset of a laptop is portability, which many college students have found turns into a liability: they are one of the most stolen items on campus. The laptops of the MIT project don't have a lot of resemblance to the disposable, fragile, overpowered 1st-world toys you find for sale at the big box stores. Their design criteria lead them to choose the laptop form factor. I haven't followed the project in detail, but I'd suspect there were good reasons: portability for personal ownership, minimal power consumption, etc. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge
I agree about the laptops, they are not very upgradeable. I have for years been recycling used desktop PC's to places like Child and Family services, church groups and anyone who could not afford a pc. My objection to the laptop program was that they were going out of the country; take care of your own before you stat trying to take care of everyone else. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: David Ecklein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 10:28 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge I don't understand this fixation on laptops. These are commodities for the affluent, costing twice as much when new as desktops. They have far less upgrade capability, the screens are delicate and hard to repair, the mouse and keyboard are compromises. The cases are fragile and often have proprietary form factors and parts, inhibiting inexpensive repairs. The sole asset of a laptop is portability, which many college students have found turns into a liability: they are one of the most stolen items on campus. IMHO, this laptop promotion is being done for reasons other than the benefit of school children, whether here or abroad. I would rather see an effort mounted to refurbish the many usable desktops that are going to the dump every day. The participation of high school computer and science clubs could be enlisted; there is more standardization with desktops than with laptops, and you don't need special tools or skills with the latter. Since flat screens are trendy and recently relatively affordable, new CRT monitors are selling for a song, usable used ones are so plentiful the Salvation Army and Goodwill no longer accepts them. I thought the rise of Linux would make recycling desktops an obvious project (an OS not as demanding as, say, XP), but now I am not so sure. As my Filipina mother-in-law used to say, common sense is not so common. Dave Ecklein - Original Message - From: Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge I'd support this project if it were to get a laptop in every household in the USA but third world I don't think so, let's start thinking about taking care of our own first the rest of the world. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:27 PM To: Fred Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Er. The machines are running Linux -- Fedora Core or some RedHat variant? -- and the machines are designed to create ad-hoc wireless networks. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Hand cranks or other similar alternative power options have always been the plan for the $100 OLPC laptops. The earlier marketing materials have always included pictures including a hand crank. There's ongoing discussion within the project as to how to accomodate the power needs of the laptop without depending on people to have wall sockets. Note that the laptops have no hard drives (flash only), relatively small screens, and are designed to run in black and white mode most of the time for better power consumption. Also note that these aren't PCs... I think that either you or I is completely misunderstanding the purpose of the project, or suffering under some similarly constricting misunderstanding. Care to enlighten me as to which it might be? -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Perhaps I am talking apples and oranges here, in an effort to introduce a note of skepticism. Does anyone have more detailed specs on these Model-T laptops that must be cranked? Christopher Schmidt in an earlier email did have some informed speculation (hand-generated power, b/w screen, not a PC, etc.). Doesn't sound too promising in itself. If the built-in wireless is workable as described, that would be a mitigation - but would you want to use one? For a while some people in the US who could not afford (or didn't want) a computer bought set-top boxes that would connect to their televisions, just as in an earlier time, word-processing machines were on the market. Both of these over-specialized attempts at dodging the polymorphism of the PC proved evolutionary dead ends. Many (but clearly not all) developing countries do have power. Not always on, and not always at the same voltage! I have had some experience of this in rural Philippines, among the poorest areas in the world. It seems to me cheap electricity would trump many other priorities, including provision of laptops to children in those places. Has MIT got the cart before the horse? I have seen very good solar-powered calculators sold at dollar stores. These might deliver much more educational bang for the buck than a crippled laptop costing between $100 and $300 as projected. As for other functions covered by laptops, cheap cell-phone service is spreading rapidly in developing countries. Text messaging is arguably more popular in the Philippines than it is here. Perhaps there is a Chinese-made video cell-phone already in the pipeline that might cover many functions visualized by this MIT project, at less cost. Finally, no one has mentioned any hard copy in connection with these projected laptops. The paperless revolution many technophiles heralded years ago has really turned out to be a slow evolution. Why should we expect it to be more instantaneous in developing countries? Printers and their ongoing expenses (ink, ribbons, paper, repair or disposal etc) could swamp the cost of the laptop itself. I still like the idea of recycling existing PCs; it is a tragedy that they are being disposed of without due consideration for their educational potential. Especially when, in some cases, there are environmental concerns about their final resting places. Dave Ecklein - Original Message - From: Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Ecklein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Sent: Sunday, May 28, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On May 27, 2006, at 10:27 PM, David Ecklein wrote: I don't understand this fixation on laptops. These are commodities for the affluent, costing twice as much when new as desktops. They have far less upgrade capability, the screens are delicate and hard to repair, the mouse and keyboard are compromises. The cases are fragile and often have proprietary form factors and parts, inhibiting inexpensive repairs. The sole asset of a laptop is portability, which many college students have found turns into a liability: they are one of the most stolen items on campus. The laptops of the MIT project don't have a lot of resemblance to the disposable, fragile, overpowered 1st-world toys you find for sale at the big box stores. Their design criteria lead them to choose the laptop form factor. I haven't followed the project in detail, but I'd suspect there were good reasons: portability for personal ownership, minimal power consumption, etc. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
The laptops of the MIT project don't have a lot of resemblance to the disposable, fragile, overpowered 1st-world toys you find for sale at the big box stores. Their design criteria lead them to choose the laptop form factor. I haven't followed the project in detail, but I'd suspect there were good reasons: portability for personal ownership, minimal power consumption, etc. Right on all points, as I read it. For those willing to RTFA ... this weeks news and the mother-lode ... http://laptop.media.mit.edu/laptopnews.nsf/latest/news?OpenDocument http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmedia/blog/2006/05/one_laptop_per_child_first_pho.html http://www.laptop.org/ Rehabbing obsolete desktops will only help the part of the 3rd world that has compatible power grid -- and would not be highly efficient of anything except helping us get rid of toxic waste computers. If you want to do something useful with the old desktops ... Those of you who want to act locally ... do so! Putting Linux on recently-old desktops for local underfunded schools would be possibly more useful, if the School IT department doesn't have a MS-only policy. Probably easier to find local social-service NGOs and other independent non-profits that will take them. Tom Limoncelli recommends helping your local non-profits with the spare time his Time Management for Systems Administrators will give you [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/timemgmt/ http://isbn.nu/0596007833/], but outsource their mail and lists and websites to free webservices so you can focus on the important stuff. People who are actively rehabbing computers for the American underprivileged need your help ... and they don't need really obsolete 486's or P1's, and do like laptops. http://www.tecschange.org/donations/donation-faq.html http://www.epa.gov/NE/solidwaste/electronic/reuse.html -- Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge
I'd support this project if it were to get a laptop in every household in the USA but third world I don't think so, let's start thinking about taking care of our own first the rest of the world. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:27 PM To: Fred Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Er. The machines are running Linux -- Fedora Core or some RedHat variant? -- and the machines are designed to create ad-hoc wireless networks. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Hand cranks or other similar alternative power options have always been the plan for the $100 OLPC laptops. The earlier marketing materials have always included pictures including a hand crank. There's ongoing discussion within the project as to how to accomodate the power needs of the laptop without depending on people to have wall sockets. Note that the laptops have no hard drives (flash only), relatively small screens, and are designed to run in black and white mode most of the time for better power consumption. Also note that these aren't PCs... I think that either you or I is completely misunderstanding the purpose of the project, or suffering under some similarly constricting misunderstanding. Care to enlighten me as to which it might be? -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
I don't understand this fixation on laptops. These are commodities for the affluent, costing twice as much when new as desktops. They have far less upgrade capability, the screens are delicate and hard to repair, the mouse and keyboard are compromises. The cases are fragile and often have proprietary form factors and parts, inhibiting inexpensive repairs. The sole asset of a laptop is portability, which many college students have found turns into a liability: they are one of the most stolen items on campus. IMHO, this laptop promotion is being done for reasons other than the benefit of school children, whether here or abroad. I would rather see an effort mounted to refurbish the many usable desktops that are going to the dump every day. The participation of high school computer and science clubs could be enlisted; there is more standardization with desktops than with laptops, and you don't need special tools or skills with the latter. Since flat screens are trendy and recently relatively affordable, new CRT monitors are selling for a song, usable used ones are so plentiful the Salvation Army and Goodwill no longer accepts them. I thought the rise of Linux would make recycling desktops an obvious project (an OS not as demanding as, say, XP), but now I am not so sure. As my Filipina mother-in-law used to say, common sense is not so common. Dave Ecklein - Original Message - From: Richard A Sharpe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: One Laptop Per Child pledge I'd support this project if it were to get a laptop in every household in the USA but third world I don't think so, let's start thinking about taking care of our own first the rest of the world. Rich Richard A Sharpe 8 Meadowview Lane Merrimack, NH 03054 Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you, not because they are kind, but because you are. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:27 PM To: Fred Cc: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Er. The machines are running Linux -- Fedora Core or some RedHat variant? -- and the machines are designed to create ad-hoc wireless networks. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Hand cranks or other similar alternative power options have always been the plan for the $100 OLPC laptops. The earlier marketing materials have always included pictures including a hand crank. There's ongoing discussion within the project as to how to accomodate the power needs of the laptop without depending on people to have wall sockets. Note that the laptops have no hard drives (flash only), relatively small screens, and are designed to run in black and white mode most of the time for better power consumption. Also note that these aren't PCs... I think that either you or I is completely misunderstanding the purpose of the project, or suffering under some similarly constricting misunderstanding. Care to enlighten me as to which it might be? -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Paul Lussier writes: Right. Benson, crazy though he is, was foolish enough to think we should take care of people in our country before helping other countries people who can't read and write. That whole Charity begins at home thing is just so, well, un-PC :) Gosh, when you put it that way, it sounds so simple. --kevin ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Bill McGonigle wrote: There's a pledge going on here for folks who want to pledge $300 to buy a $100 OLPC laptop: http://www.pledgebank.com/100laptop I've been told that this pledge project is not directly affiliated with the OLPC project, and that the OLPC laptops are not available in the US at this time. My information came from Christopher Blizzard, who is leading the software effort for the OLPC project. If we (read any/all GNHLUG chapters) are interested in learning more about OLPC, Chris said that he'd be happy to come up and talk about it at a meeting (I didn't even have to twist his arm, I swear!). Have a great weekend! Heather ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Thursday 25 May 2006 21:04, Paul Lussier uttered thusly: ... Yep. Getting computers to people in third world countries. Right. Benson, crazy though he is, was foolish enough to think we should take care of people in our country before helping other countries people who can't read and write. That whole Charity begins at home thing is just so, well, un-PC :) Hey, didn't that used to be PC at some point in the past? ;-) Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Methinks someone has a pipe dream. I can just see it now. All of these villagers are given these PCs, which are dead after the first hour or two of use. But hey, I'm sure they'll find novel uses for dead PCs. -Fred ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. The MIT folks realize that. They designed them with the 3rd world environment in mind. Each laptop shares it's wireless connection with other laptops in range, so the laptops nearest the one network link at the school repeat it down the street in an adaptive mesh. -- Bill[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 10:01:52PM -0400, Fred wrote: Anyway, just to add my own $0.02, I don't see the $100 PC making much f a difference -- unless it can connect to the Internet. Otherwise the third world will be limited to whatever content and software their respective governments will allow to be installed on those PCs. Er. The machines are running Linux -- Fedora Core or some RedHat variant? -- and the machines are designed to create ad-hoc wireless networks. Oh, and unless these PCs can be run with a hand crank or solar cells, still pretty useless in many parts of the world. And with the typical power consumption of laptop CPUs, that's a lot of hand cranking. And I don't see how you can keep the costs down to $100 if you have to include solar cells. Hand cranks or other similar alternative power options have always been the plan for the $100 OLPC laptops. The earlier marketing materials have always included pictures including a hand crank. There's ongoing discussion within the project as to how to accomodate the power needs of the laptop without depending on people to have wall sockets. Note that the laptops have no hard drives (flash only), relatively small screens, and are designed to run in black and white mode most of the time for better power consumption. Also note that these aren't PCs... I think that either you or I is completely misunderstanding the purpose of the project, or suffering under some similarly constricting misunderstanding. Care to enlighten me as to which it might be? -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 5/25/06, Bill McGonigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a pledge going on here for folks who want to pledge $300 to buy a $100 OLPC laptop: http://www.pledgebank.com/100laptop The idea is that your $300 purchase funds two additional laptops in the field. Even $300 seems like a pretty good deal on the hardware, though it probably won't be your primary machine, but I'd love to load up GCompris for my daughter on one. Nicholas Negroponte is not affiliated with this pledge and is currently not interested in private sector funding of the laptops. This pledge is also somewhat of an attempt to prove that there's an alternative to big-government funding for this kind of charity work. If the pledge reaches its goal it represents a $20M pot of money for the project representing an additional 200,000 laptops in the field. Granted, it's a small dent in the 1.8 billion they need to produce. Deadline to sign up by: 31st October 2006 1,748 people have signed up, 98252 more needed More on the project: http://laptop.org -Bill I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or add would make them better at reading or math. Or is this something different than Benson's old project? -Mike- -- The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety. -Eric Sevareid, American News Commentator (1912 - 1992) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
On 5/25/06, Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never understood why giving laptops to kids who can't read or addwould make them better at reading or math.Hmm.. I have a 2.5 year old at home. He's been playing with mommy's laptop since 18 months or so. At Xmas we got a PC in the living room (with XP - hey, my wife's sewing machine software needs XP. So does Blue's Clues) and he's got his own login (w/o passwd or privililiges). So far: 1) He logs in2) He goes to noggin, nick jr, the wiggles and other web shortcuts on the desktop.3) He starts the Blue's Clues game4) He knows that if he doesn't see his icons, he logs out mommy or daddy w/ start - logoff. Hell, I have users that don't know to do that. 5) He knows to close windows by clicking on the X. I showed him once. See #4.6) He plays the memory match, shape match, and various other games on the web sites. It's easier then setting up concentration cards. 7) He also does the drawing and paint programs8) He can entertain himself w/o needing mommy or daddy.Some of the games teach concepts like: growing flowers needs soil, seeds and water shape, color puzzle and pattern matching counting and letters searching for details - studying the screen - how many of you have users that call you because they didn't take the time to read the screen to get the right info? culture (videos of three little pigs, etc. Ok, more like TV here) click and drag to place thingsIs a computer needed? Maybe not. But he makes much less of a mess w/ the computer cards, puzzle pieces and drawing tools then the physical ones (which he also has).btw - most of these apps use flash and play sound. Reading isn't needed. Or is this something different than Benson's old project? Yep. Getting computers to people in third world countries.-Mike--- The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, ortelevision.It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution ofanxiety.-Eric Sevareid, American News Commentator (1912 - 1992) ___gnhlug-discuss mailing listgnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss-- A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures.- Daniel Webster
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
I pledge at least 100$ to the laptop.. But the kid will probrably be me. Heck! Playing with a 100$ laptop in my livingroom helps a a child read AND write.. ME! :-) Thomas On 5/25/06, Bill McGonigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a pledge going on here for folks who want to pledge $300 to buya $100 OLPC laptop: http://www.pledgebank.com/100laptopThe idea is that your $300 purchase funds two additional laptops in the field.Even $300 seems like a pretty good deal on the hardware, thoughit probably won't be your primary machine, but I'd love to load upGCompris for my daughter on one.Nicholas Negroponte is not affiliated with this pledge and is currently not interested in private sector funding of the laptops.This pledgeis also somewhat of an attempt to prove that there's an alternative tobig-government funding for this kind of charity work.If the pledge reaches its goal it represents a $20M pot of money for the projectrepresenting an additional 200,000 laptops in the field.Granted, it'sa small dent in the 1.8 billion they need to produce.Deadline to sign up by: 31st October 2006 1,748 people have signed up, 98252 more neededMore on the project: http://laptop.org-Bill-Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440BFC Computing, LLCHome: 603.448.1668[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf___gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.orghttp://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: One Laptop Per Child pledge
Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 8) He can entertain himself w/o needing mommy or daddy. I've got an almost 4 year old who's been doing that since pretty much day one, and has never really played with the computers in the house or watch TV. Is a computer needed? Maybe not. But he makes much less of a mess w/ the computer cards, puzzle pieces and drawing tools then the physical ones (which he also has). If my kids didn't play with the physical ones, I'd have much less opportunity to play with that stuff myself :) And let me tell you, it's *FUN* to build big block towers with your kids and knock them down! Yep. Getting computers to people in third world countries. Right. Benson, crazy though he is, was foolish enough to think we should take care of people in our country before helping other countries people who can't read and write. That whole Charity begins at home thing is just so, well, un-PC :) -- Seeya, Paul ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
