Re: GnuCash design / new features
Quoting Brian Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Well, for one it would be really awesome if the invoice template was similar to iBiz, http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibiz/index.html . 1. We don't want to have specific external targets from within gnucash like that - the reference you quote is a moving target and if we try to fix against it, it will always be a case of catch-up. I wasn't suggesting mimicking iBiz. Another option we've discussed previously is e-guile.. This would make invoice templates effectively hand-written HTML with embedded guile.. So if you wanted to change the look at feel of your invoice you would just edit the HTML until it looked how you wanted it to look.. And then the embedded guile interpreter would run the template you created and display it with the relevant information. Then we could also distribute a bunch of templates (similar to iBiz) and you could choose one or create your own. Unfortunately as I was looking for an e-guile link I noticed that the author restructured his website and the old page is no longer there. I just emailed him about it. As I recall e-guile was effectively a single source file, so we could just copy-and-paste it into GnuCash and then someone would just need to figure out how to integrate it into the report subsystem and set up a runtime environment for a report template. 2. Tips and advice on how to manage the gnucash codebase. The tools to use and links to their documentation. Conventions and when to use branches. 3. A concerted effort to bring the existing disparate docs into one cohesive whole that is relevant, friendly, welcoming, genuinely helpful and bridges the gap between the gnucash-docs package and the gnucash-devel archives. 4. Regular and consistent updates to all documentation components. Realistically, this can only be achieved by using a tool that provides write access to all developers with CVS/SVN commit rights plus a few others with documentation skills - i.e. some form of CMS. I'd recommend Drupal. Sounds good, but what do you think, Derek, about 2,3, and 4--directly above? I think they sound like a great idea. I would love for someone to dedicate time to coalescing all the various docs, finding out what docs are missing, what docs are duplicated, and honing down our docs into: user-docs (gnucash-docs package) dev-docs (in doxygen) build docs (README, HACKING, ...) arch docs (everything else, which bridges the gaps) I don't believe we'd need something like Drupal for this; I think this could all be done in CVS/SVN. Sincerely, Brian -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Another option we've discussed previously is e-guile.. This would make invoice templates effectively hand-written HTML with embedded guile.. So if you wanted to change the look at feel of your invoice you would just edit the HTML until it looked how you wanted it to look.. And then the embedded guile interpreter would run the template you created and display it with the relevant information. Then we could also distribute a bunch of templates (similar to iBiz) and you could choose one or create your own. I like this idea. Unfortunately as I was looking for an e-guile link I noticed that the author restructured his website and the old page is no longer there. I just emailed him about it. As I recall e-guile was effectively a single source file, so we could just copy-and-paste it into GnuCash and then someone would just need to figure out how to integrate it into the report subsystem and set up a runtime environment for a report template. Once we have access to that source I would like to look into it. Sounds good, but what do you think, Derek, about 2,3, and 4--directly above? I think they sound like a great idea. I would love for someone to dedicate time to coalescing all the various docs, finding out what docs are missing, what docs are duplicated, and honing down our docs into: user-docs (gnucash-docs package) dev-docs (in doxygen) build docs (README, HACKING, ...) arch docs (everything else, which bridges the gaps) I don't believe we'd need something like Drupal for this; I think this could all be done in CVS/SVN. Hmmm, but is there anywhere that says in stuff like in version 2.5 we will have whatever, and in v. 3.0 will be these features as well. A current roadmap I guess. Is it not neccessary to have all this and the docs above on the/a website? Right now there is the wiki, gnucash.org, and then independent developers' sites all with different info. I want to sound rude, just that I was confused at where Gnucash is going after G2, so I thought if I am confused maybe others are as well--hence the website suggestions. For example, I read the QSF part on Neil's site and now I wonder what QOF/QSF has to do with G2, SQL backend, multi-user support, I am sorry and maybe I am a bit green on developing such an app, but I just don't get any of the stuff with QOF/QSF. Is it part of the Free the data concept or to support multiple backends/platforms or what? Sincerely, Brian -- Contagious Design! web . design . photo Brian Rose . web programmer (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 06:59 -0800, Brian Rose wrote: Hmmm, but is there anywhere that says in stuff like in version 2.5 we will have whatever, and in v. 3.0 will be these features as well. A current roadmap I guess. Is it not neccessary to have all this and the docs above on the/a website? Right now there is the wiki, gnucash.org, and then independent developers' sites all with different info. I want to sound rude, just that I was confused at where Gnucash is going after G2, so I thought if I am confused maybe others are as well--hence the website suggestions. This is a good point (except for the wanting to sound rude part ;). We've been really focused on the G2 port and 2.0, and intentionally haven't talked with too much rigor about post-2.0, at the same time there's been a lot of discussion over the last year or so, and I think it breaks out like: - General simplification - Report handwavecleanup/handwave - Scheme removal - Finalize QOF extraction - Fix modularity system - Features - DB-backend/SQLite integration. - Budgeting - Book closing - Lots - SX using QOF (to support above) - Register rewrite in simple widgets. It might be possible to plan these out into specific releases/timeframes if we had regular releases and more than really-part-time developers. Right now, it's hard to have a realistic roadmap that's more formal. ...jsled -- http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Oh, no! different info. I want to sound rude, just that I DO NOT want to sound rude! Yikes! Sorry! This is a good point (except for the wanting to sound rude part ;). yeah. Well, people really do judge a book by its cover and a project by its interface and its website-E.g., Does it have lots of cool original eye candy that looks fairly new, So, if we want to attract more users, developers, etc--this is why I like Firefox. Looks great, but is a good product too. it breaks out like: - General simplification - Report handwavecleanup/handwave - Scheme removal - Finalize QOF extraction - Fix modularity system - Features - DB-backend/SQLite integration. - Budgeting - Book closing - Lots - SX using QOF (to support above) - Register rewrite in simple widgets. Ok. Sincerely, Brian -- Contagious Design! web . design . photo Brian Rose . web programmer (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Sunday 30 October 2005 2:44 am, Brian Rose wrote: Hmm, I was hoping it would be possible to use Gnucash via the desktop for one user and via a webpage for another user simultaneously--maybe that is a longer way off than I thought. None of the current developers have shown an inclination to work on such a feature so it will remain a long way off until someone decides it is worth investigating. It is a lot more complex than you may envisage - mainly because of the implicit logic that is hard to replicate in a browser environment. You'd need something compiled on the server that could do the job, maybe a new perl module that wraps a new C library or the proposed logic library required for cashutil. Well, the site explains the theory pretty well. However, I am throwing out ideas for consideration to make Gnucash tasty to an enduser/small business owner who isn't a Linux guy--e.g., avoids the command-line and doesn't want to code. I suggest you look at QSF and maybe help me finish off the conversion routines and invoice export. Well, for one it would be really awesome if the invoice template was similar to iBiz, http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibiz/index.html . 1. We don't want to have specific external targets from within gnucash like that - the reference you quote is a moving target and if we try to fix against it, it will always be a case of catch-up. 2. Someone else will undoubtedly have yet another target that should be considered. 3. QSF *can* deal with ANY external customisation requests. By having just the data required, you can develop a simple Perl/Python/PHP/whatever process that parses the XML and produces the template / report / format you need for whatever your target may be. It's designed to be all things to all men and once a conversion script is created, it remains current because all that is changing is the internal data - not the QSF format itself. Highly flexible, but using a GUI and a template creator. If it's flexible enough to import data into that template, QSF can provide the data. It's just a question of a suitable script to process the output. Are you happier in GUI development or CLI or both? Web dev and backend stuff is where I am most comfortable. Sounds perfect. Backend stuff will be the invoice QSF which still needs a few tweaks in src/business/business-core/gncInvoice.c and src/backend/qsf/qsf-backend.c - contact me off-list if you'd like to look into that and I can send you some examples. Web dev stuff is really down to your preference of Perl, PHP, Python, XQuery, XPath or something else to parse the XML and output the data in a format suitable for your template. Well, I am not sure other than above on invoices and what others have mentioned in this thread. Fine, that's enough for now. It's how I started too. My primary purpose is speaking up is because I want to help enable more productivity and more small business users and hence a better, stronger Gnucash. In which case, you will be very welcome here. Derek mentioned that there were enough web programmers. Is there a need for people to port documentation from the dev list and doxygen to the web to help enable new programmers with Gnucash to be productive more quickly? Yes - the only question is WHERE that documentation should be hosted. I've had to host my own (http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/) because access to the gnucash site is so limited. I do have space there to host some more but I'd have to arrange some form of access until I get time to put Drupal onto that box. What I think we need is: 1. Entry-level docs that fill the gap between the detailed doxygen output, the patchy related pages docs - some of which are quite outdated - and the current gnucash website. 2. Tips and advice on how to manage the gnucash codebase. The tools to use and links to their documentation. Conventions and when to use branches. 3. A concerted effort to bring the existing disparate docs into one cohesive whole that is relevant, friendly, welcoming, genuinely helpful and bridges the gap between the gnucash-docs package and the gnucash-devel archives. 4. Regular and consistent updates to all documentation components. Realistically, this can only be achieved by using a tool that provides write access to all developers with CVS/SVN commit rights plus a few others with documentation skills - i.e. some form of CMS. I'd recommend Drupal. -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpsXLAkWVvwY.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Derek mentioned that there were enough web programmers. Is there a need for people to port documentation from the dev list and doxygen to the web to help enable new programmers with Gnucash to be productive more quickly? Yes - the only question is WHERE that documentation should be hosted. I've had to host my own (http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/) because access to the gnucash site is so limited. I do have space there to host some more but I'd have to arrange some form of access until I get time to put Drupal onto that box. The only reason you've had to do that is because I've only run the doxygen docs on HEAD, not g2. Once g2-HEAD then you'll no longer need to do that for doxygen. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Sunday 30 October 2005 1:24 pm, Derek Atkins wrote: Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Derek mentioned that there were enough web programmers. Is there a need for people to port documentation from the dev list and doxygen to the web to help enable new programmers with Gnucash to be productive more quickly? Yes - the only question is WHERE that documentation should be hosted. I've had to host my own (http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/) because access to the gnucash site is so limited. I do have space there to host some more but I'd have to arrange some form of access until I get time to put Drupal onto that box. The only reason you've had to do that is because I've only run the doxygen docs on HEAD, not g2. Once g2-HEAD then you'll no longer need to do that for doxygen. True, however I was thinking of my other documentation on that server. The URL itself goes to the DocBook documentation I wrote for qof_book_merge and QSF rather than the G2 Doxygen output. -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpdPdLH4hc3U.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: True, however I was thinking of my other documentation on that server. The URL itself goes to the DocBook documentation I wrote for qof_book_merge and QSF rather than the G2 Doxygen output. Just a side question... is there any particular reason the qof_book_merge docs aren't in doxygen? I can somewhat understand why QSF docs aren't. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Sunday 30 October 2005 3:18 pm, Derek Atkins wrote: Quoting Neil Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: True, however I was thinking of my other documentation on that server. The URL itself goes to the DocBook documentation I wrote for qof_book_merge and QSF rather than the G2 Doxygen output. Just a side question... is there any particular reason the qof_book_merge docs aren't in doxygen? I can somewhat understand why QSF docs aren't. The qof_book_merge API is in Doxygen - lots and lots of it. The stuff on my own server is more the design behind the API along with links to a whole range of other documentation. I suppose it's grown beyond the qof_book_merge name really but I have now subtitled it: Query Object Framework: Design and direction. to give a hint that it's more than just the merge. http://code.neil.williamsleesmill.me.uk/ The index (including some pages that just link to other sites or documentation generated from other projects) covers: Preface 1. QOF dependencies. 2. GnuCash dependencies. 2.1. GnuCash for Gnome2: gnucash-gnome2-dev 2.2. Building GnuCash 1. Introduction 1.1. Terms and definitions. 1.1.1. QOF: Query Object Framework . 1.1.2. Pilot-QOF: Querying Palm databases as objects. 1.1.3. QOF-gen: QOF Object Generator. 1.1.4. Data Freedom: Liberate your data from the application. 1.1.5. What's a QofBook? 1.1.6. QSF - QOF Serialization Format. 1.2. Other versions of this documentation. 2. Background 3. Source Documentation 3.1. Doxygen Documentation. 3.1.1. qof_book_merge Doxygen documentation. 3.1.2. QSF Doxygen documentation. 3.1.3. QOF Doxygen documentation. 3.1.4. GnuCash Doxygen documentation. 3.1.5. GnuCash Gnome2 port Doxygen documentation. 3.2. Other general documentation 3.2.1. Gnucash Design documentation 3.2.2. GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide 3.2.3. GnuCash Help Manual 3.2.4. KVP Values used By GnuCash 3.3. qof_book_merge Source Code 3.4. QSF Source code 3.4.1. QSF and qof_book_merge tarballs 4. Creating GnuCash Invoices using a Palm PDA 4.1. Beginnings 4.2. Getting into GnuCash / QOF 4.2.1. Why the GnuCash File QofBackend needs changing 4.2.2. Tips on debugging within GnuCash 4.3. Building QOF onto pilot-link 4.3.1. Converting existing objects to QOF 4.4. Pilot-QOF 4.4.1. What does QOF have to do with pilot-link, or vice versa? 4.4.2. pilot-qof manpages 4.4.3. Generating new objects 5. QSF - QOF Serialization Format. 5.1. What is QSF? 5.1.1. Features of QSF 5.1.2. Requirements of QSF 5.1.3. Validation of QSF. 5.1.4. QSF examples 5.2. Mapping QSF objects between QOF applications 5.2.1. The QSF Map file 5.2.2. Relating the map to the QSF objects 5.3. Writing new QSF maps 6. Merging QofBook's 6.1. Preparing the rule set 6.2. Draft of a rule set framework. 6.3. Design of the merge 6.3.1. Example programs for qof_book_merge 6.4. Using qof_book_merge with new and existing QOF objects 6.5. Known problems 6.6. Design improvements 7. Data Mining and freedom of access. 7.1. Data mining within QOF 7.2. Data Freedom within QOF I think I've got the split about right - maybe there is still too much in the Doxygen output but there are topics covered at my own site that simply don't fit into gnucash or QOF doxygen. -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpC3yQqmR19w.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Sun, 2005-10-30 at 09:53 +, Neil Williams wrote: On Sunday 30 October 2005 2:44 am, Brian Rose wrote: Hmm, I was hoping it would be possible to use Gnucash via the desktop for one user and via a webpage for another user simultaneously--maybe that is a longer way off than I thought. None of the current developers have shown an inclination to work on such a feature so it will remain a long way off until someone decides it is worth Actually, you and warlord have both said this recently, and I just wanted to say that I *do* want to do this, actually. But it's sufficiently far enough out on my todo list (1 year, at least) as to practically be useless. :) ...jsled -- http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Hi, I suggest you look at QSF and maybe help me finish off the conversion routines and invoice export. I will look at QSF, first. Well, for one it would be really awesome if the invoice template was similar to iBiz, http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibiz/index.html . 1. We don't want to have specific external targets from within gnucash like that - the reference you quote is a moving target and if we try to fix against it, it will always be a case of catch-up. I wasn't suggesting mimicking iBiz. 2. Someone else will undoubtedly have yet another target that should be considered. Probably. Maybe we could come up with something to enable customizing invoices without leaving the Gnucash GUI and iBiz applies one way. So, several suggestions could be incorporated to create something better than the wisdom of anyone person. 3. QSF *can* deal with ANY external customisation requests. By having just the data required, you can develop a simple Perl/Python/PHP/whatever process that parses the XML and produces the template / report / format you need for whatever your target may be. It's designed to be all things to all men and once a conversion script is created, it remains current because all that is changing is the internal data - not the QSF format itself. Sounds very high-level, generalized, and vague. I.e., I don't understand, but maybe I will after reading about QSF. Highly flexible, but using a GUI and a template creator. If it's flexible enough to import data into that template, QSF can provide the data. It's just a question of a suitable script to process the output. Who is expected to write the script? Who is Gnucash intended for? Are you happier in GUI development or CLI or both? Web dev and backend stuff is where I am most comfortable. Sounds perfect. Backend stuff will be the invoice QSF which still needs a few tweaks in src/business/business-core/gncInvoice.c and src/backend/qsf/qsf-backend.c - contact me off-list if you'd like to look into that and I can send you some examples. I will read about QSF. 2. Tips and advice on how to manage the gnucash codebase. The tools to use and links to their documentation. Conventions and when to use branches. 3. A concerted effort to bring the existing disparate docs into one cohesive whole that is relevant, friendly, welcoming, genuinely helpful and bridges the gap between the gnucash-docs package and the gnucash-devel archives. 4. Regular and consistent updates to all documentation components. Realistically, this can only be achieved by using a tool that provides write access to all developers with CVS/SVN commit rights plus a few others with documentation skills - i.e. some form of CMS. I'd recommend Drupal. Sounds good, but what do you think, Derek, about 2,3, and 4--directly above? Sincerely, Brian -- Contagious Design! web . design . photo Brian Rose . web programmer (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
Hi all, 1. OSX already has GnuCash via X11 and Fink (there could be licence problems with a native Cocoa port and it is not being considered). Ok. 2. KDE can run GnuCash if the Gnome libraries are installed. KDE also has it's own alternatives to GnuCash. Just a thought. 3. The web page idea is FAR more difficult than you may imagine and NONE of the work above even comes close to a HTML/PHP/Perl front end. I've done work on QSF (XML) which *could* be used to render GnuCash (and other QOF) data as HTML for purposes of data mining and customised reports but that's definitely as far as it goes. Hmm, I was hoping it would be possible to use Gnucash via the desktop for one user and via a webpage for another user simultaneously--maybe that is a longer way off than I thought. 2. Mozilla designed for plugins from the very earliest stages, it's not easy to build a system into an existing program. True. 3. Plugins can only go so far and still won't meet everyone's needs. IMHO, it is better to provide easier, more robust access to the data itself and let users handle it in Perl or PHP, Python or whatever. QSF is a flavour of XML that has a Schema and is intended to provide this simple and flexible data access. http://www.data-freedom.org/ Well, the site explains the theory pretty well. However, I am throwing out ideas for consideration to make Gnucash tasty to an enduser/small business owner who isn't a Linux guy--e.g., avoids the command-line and doesn't want to code. What functionality do you want in your module? Well, for one it would be really awesome if the invoice template was similar to iBiz, http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibiz/index.html . My wife uses iBiz. I don't like a lot of it--(it is to click-happy for me), however the invoice template creator is pretty good. It uses a web template like method of specifying where everything goes for an invoice template. Highly flexible, but using a GUI and a template creator. It seems very daunting and time consuming. There's no escaping that one. Developing in gnucash could quite easily consume 150% of your available time. The discipline to control that must come from you, as must the motivation to persist. Most any project is similar that way, isn't it? So I guess it depends on your motivation, your perspective and your itch. ... We each need our own itch for motivation. Are you happier in GUI development or CLI or both? Web dev and backend stuff is where I am most comfortable. What's your itch? Well, I am not sure other than above on invoices and what others have mentioned in this thread. My primary purpose is speaking up is because I want to help enable more productivity and more small business users and hence a better, stronger Gnucash. Derek mentioned that there were enough web programmers. Is there a need for people to port documentation from the dev list and doxygen to the web to help enable new programmers with Gnucash to be productive more quickly? Sincerely, Brian -- Contagious Design! web . design . photo Brian Rose . web programmer (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Friday 28 October 2005 4:58 am, Brian Rose wrote: (switched to devel) And budget support. Chris Shoemaker has been working on this, it's just been added to G2. Also, what would happen if the engine and functionality was separated from the GUI? I'm working on that. QOF is the GnuCash engine without the financial objects and that has been spun out of GnuCash. http://qof.sourceforge.net/ The financial functionality is being separated from the GUI too - the objects (Accounts, Invoices etc.) are to be shared with cashutil: http://linux.codehelp.co.uk/cashutil/ What needs to follow is the financial logic - only part of which is currently embodied in the objects. CashUtil will be folded into the gnucash sources but ONLY after the Gnome2 port is released. Then provide good docs and an api for building a frontend using a web page, KDE, Gnome2, OS X, 1. OSX already has GnuCash via X11 and Fink (there could be licence problems with a native Cocoa port and it is not being considered). 2. KDE can run GnuCash if the Gnome libraries are installed. KDE also has it's own alternatives to GnuCash. 3. The web page idea is FAR more difficult than you may imagine and NONE of the work above even comes close to a HTML/PHP/Perl front end. I've done work on QSF (XML) which *could* be used to render GnuCash (and other QOF) data as HTML for purposes of data mining and customised reports but that's definitely as far as it goes. ... Secondly why not provide similar support for extensions like Mozilla has, that can be easily installed by the user? 1. GnuCash 1.8 has it's own module system because the Gnome1 libraries didn't do what was needed. Gnome2 libraries (in particular GModule) can but this work has only been done so far for the backends. Plugins for backends are part of my plan for QOF and therefore GnuCash. 2. Mozilla designed for plugins from the very earliest stages, it's not easy to build a system into an existing program. 3. Plugins can only go so far and still won't meet everyone's needs. IMHO, it is better to provide easier, more robust access to the data itself and let users handle it in Perl or PHP, Python or whatever. QSF is a flavour of XML that has a Schema and is intended to provide this simple and flexible data access. http://www.data-freedom.org/ I would be more open to reading docs and using an API to scratch my itches, compared to downloading the gnucash source and studying it for a while to know how my first attempt at a module is going to affect everything else before I can contribute. What functionality do you want in your module? It seems very daunting and time consuming. There's no escaping that one. Developing in gnucash could quite easily consume 150% of your available time. The discipline to control that must come from you, as must the motivation to persist. I have been reading the devel lists for a week now and threads gone and on and on. Is there a benevolent dictator/leader or a specific milestone map or are the developers just doing what seems best to each of themselves? The map at the moment is G2. Discussions are ranging over tools and philosophies but that is all about the future. There has been a long standing need to move away from CVS but it cannot start until G2 is sorted out. However, the discussions upon what to use instead and how gnucash development should be organised after G2 have provoked marked differences of opinion between the current group of active developers. As for each to his own, there was angst about my work on QOF but despite all the problems that is now done. I am not a GUI programmer, never have been. I work on gnucash because I want to provide easier access to gnucash data, not because I had any designs for a whizzo GUI frontend or even new GUI components. Others are already far better at that than I will ever be. So I guess it depends on your motivation, your perspective and your itch. I work with command-line interfaces (like cashutil) because I dislike the bloat of GUI programming. I have a need for better data access from various devices and situations so I concentrate on QOF, backends, CLI programs and XML. If you want a quick introduction to the fundamentals of gnucash, you could do worse than look at the cashutil code which is currently a very stripped-down CLI version of gnucash. There is a lot more work needing to be done on cashutil. We each need our own itch for motivation. Are you happier in GUI development or CLI or both? What's your itch? -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpmuN6ceHpyg.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
Re: GnuCash design / new features
On Fri, 2005-28-10 at 18:00 -0400, Josh Sled wrote: On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 22:06 +0100, Neil Williams wrote: On Friday 28 October 2005 4:58 am, Brian Rose wrote: (switched to devel) From where? Where can I see the original message? ...jsled It's in gnucash-user Here's his post: From months of list reading these are things that concern list users 1. End of financial year close issues 2. Invoice printing including font choice and Fancy invoice customisation 3. Connecting with PalmOS 4. Choosing a customer or vendor when doing invoices or payments is clumsy 5. Cheque printing 6. Multi-user version I would have to add to this list Recurring invoices And budget support. Also, what would happen if the engine and functionality was separated from the GUI? Then provide good docs and an api for building a frontend using a web page, KDE, Gnome2, OS X, ... Secondly why not provide similar support for extensions like Mozilla has, that can be easily installed by the user? I would be more open to reading docs and using an API to scratch my itches, compared to downloading the gnucash source and studying it for a while to know how my first attempt at a module is going to affect everything else before I can contribute. It seems very daunting and time consuming. I have been reading the devel lists for a week now and threads gone and on and on. Is there a benevolent dictator/leader or a specific milestone map or are the developers just doing what seems best to each of themselves? Sincerely, Brian -- Contagious Design! web . design . photo Brian Rose . web programmer (604)-630-2426 . brianATcontagiousdesignDOTnet -- Brian [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnucash-devel mailing list gnucash-devel@gnucash.org https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
