Re: [lace] Finger looping

[Kim Davis]

Gil and Jean, please correct me if you know differently, but I do not
believe this is loop braiding.  I do not recognize the interlacing or color
configurations as possible with orthodox braids from this technique.

Kim



>

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[lace] Colour in Lace.

[Elizabeth Ligeti.]

Wow! Alex, that hits it right on the head!!  Texture or colour? One does seem
to override the other. Yes, I agree.
I do a lot more monochrome lace, and I know just what you mean about the
texture showing up when it is not distracted by colour.

Catherine, I worked your Strawberries – and learned Such a Lot while working
the pieces – flowers wired, leaves with wired veins, and a double layer of
stitching to make the strawberries. It was such fun to do, - and a belated big
Thank You for the pattern – and in fact, the whole book!!  However when I
put that piece in my Proficiency   exam, it was written, by the examiners, as
Stumpwork. I am not sure whether they accepted and passed it, or not!!
Stumpwork is surely partly Needlelace, anyway – isn’t it?!! Well, that
whole piece is Needle Lace to me, anyway!!  (But then, - I was always a bit of
a rebel!! – and I refuse to be Politically correct!)

Devon – Yes, I too get odd dots, Capital letters, and other marks put in to
some Arachne letters – Jeri’s and my own among others. I have no idea why,
and no way of altering it.  It certainly does not come from this end. It only
seems to happen to the Arachne emails.

Regards from Liz.in Melbourne,. Oz.

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Re: [lace] Finger looping

[Sue Babbs]

I've indulged Devon (grin!) and uploaded her photos to a "Devon Thein - 
Indulgences" album on the Arachne Flickr page


Sue

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[lace] Finger looping

[DevonThein]

Gil says <>

This reminds me that I was at a show at the Morgan Library not long ago where
there were some 14th century  Indulgences on display. These were the things
you could buy in the medieval world in order to shorten your time in
Purgatory. There were some braids on them that I thought might be finger
looping, arguably a precursor to bobbin lace, which Gil and Jean Leader know
about.  If Sue will indulge me, perhaps I could send them to her and she could
post them on the Arachne flicker account and maybe Gil and Jean Leader could
tell me whether they think they are finger looping.

Devon

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RE: [lace] defining lace

[DevonThein]

<>

This may have to be in the catalog. In some case where there is a clear
antecedent I am hoping to show an example in the catalog entry.

Devon

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[lace] Point de Gaze surprisingly embroiderly

[DevonThein]

Catherine writes: Devon also mentions that Jill uses weaving techniques in her
works but this technique is the main distinguishing feature to be found in
Halas lace also.

Yes, needle weaving is used in Halas lace. Also, I think is some very early
laces. But, now that I am thinking about it, I am realizing that Point de Gaze
has a lot of stiches that are these needle woven circles, often perched on
radial or grid like “warp” threads. Looking at the diagrams in
Earnshaw’s book from Merehurst Embroidery Skills, I also see a petal that is
a triangle lined with button hole stitches, but that has a Cretan stich
connecting the two rows of button hole stitch, which is something I realize
that the artist Agnes Herczeg does in her work.

I never thought about it before we had this discussion of embroidery stitches
in needle lace.

Devon



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[lace] Contemporary Needlelace

[Devon Thein]

Dear Catherine,
I am truly grateful for the time you have spent on this.
Be assured I am asking the artists for their statements about the works.
It was the superficial and often misinformed treatment of lace by the
mainstream press that made me wonder what it would be like if someone who
actually knew about lace was to design a contemporary lace show. Having
started lacemaking in the early 1970s I thought I might have a go at
describing what each lace artist was doing. I don’t find that there is a lot
of critical commentary on lace art for me to read and absorb, so I am trying
to analyze it as best I can, and to put it into a historical context of lace
in the 20th and 21st centuries. I find that this is an era that tends to be
skipped over in favor of highly romantic descriptions of 17th century
lacemakers, or quaint cottagers at their pillows in front of rose covered
dwellings.
Another issue that I find I encounter when I am reading articles that have
appeared about the artists in the show,  in the past, is that the mere fact
that they are using lacemaking technique overshadows everything else as the
writer expounds on what lace is supposed to be, frilly, delicate, ultra
feminine, and how this artist is at odds with that description.  But almost
never does the non-lace press talk about the special way the artist may be
using the techniques that make it interesting. For instance I was examining
Daniela Banatova’s work the other day and noticed that she often uses a
different colored worker than the passives, to create sort of a blending.
Sometimes she uses a finer thread for some of the fillings to make them more
faint. She uses long twisted sewings in the manner of Czech modern lace to
create voids.
In the early twentieth century if one wanted to have a discussion about what
Picasso and Matisse were doing with their painting, one would go down to the
Deux Magots and buy a cup of coffee and talk to the other people who were
interested in painting. If I want to talk about lace, the place to go is
Arachne. It gives me a chance to float any theories I may have and find out if
they are crack pot theories before they actually appear in print. So, I am
grateful for people who want to explore these topics and point out the flaws
in my arguments and share ideas I haven’t thought of.
Devon

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[lace] Contemporary Needle lace

[DevonThein]

Dear Catherine,
I am truly grateful for the time you have spent on this.
Be assured I am asking the artists for their statements about the works.
It was the superficial and often misinformed treatment of lace by the
mainstream press that made me wonder what it would be like if someone who
actually knew about lace was to design a contemporary lace show. Having
started lacemaking in the early 1970s I thought I might have a go at
describing what each lace artist was doing. I don’t find that there is a lot
of critical commentary on lace art for me to read and absorb, so I am trying
to analyze it as best I can, and to put it into a historical context of lace
in the 20th and 21st centuries. I find that this is an era that tends to be
skipped over in favor of highly romantic descriptions of 17th century
lacemakers, or quaint cottagers at their pillows in front of rose covered
dwellings.
Another issue that I find I encounter when I am reading articles that have
appeared about the artists in the show,  in the past, is that the mere fact
that they are using lacemaking technique overshadows everything else as the
writer expounds on what lace is supposed to be, frilly, delicate, ultra
feminine, and how this artist is at odds with that description.  But almost
never does the non-lace press talk about the special way the artist may be
using the techniques that make it interesting. For instance I was examining
Daniela Banatova’s work the other day and noticed that she often uses a
different colored worker than the passives, to create sort of a blending.
Sometimes she uses a finer thread for some of the fillings to make them more
faint. She uses long twisted sewings in the manner of Czech modern lace to
create voids.
In the early twentieth century if one wanted to have a discussion about what
Picasso and Matisse were doing with their painting, one would go down to the
Deux Magots and buy a cup of coffee and talk to the other people who were
interested in painting. If I want to talk about lace, the place to go is
Arachne. It gives me a chance to float any theories I may have and find out if
they are crack pot theories before they actually appear in print. So, I am
grateful for people who want to explore these topics and point out the flaws
in my arguments and share ideas I haven’t thought of.
Devon




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[lace] defining lace

[Lorelei Halley]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents worth - I have Jill Nordfors' book from
long ago, before I even started making lace. Personally I would not regard
most of that book as lace. She focuses on detached buttonhole stitch laid on
top of the base fabric, and that fabric remains as part of the finished
work. I would class this as embroidery, just as stump work is a 3
dimensional form of embroidery. I do think transparency or holes are a
necessary part of lace, because the aesthetic is different for embroidery
and for lace. In embroidery color is usually a primary factor, with raised
work, layers and textures an added element of appeal. With lace the division
of the surface into areas of different textures, weaves and  densities is
where the design focus has to be. I don't think color needs to be excluded
from lace. I have used color right from the start, when I was learning. But
color does add a problem to lace, in that it often obscures the density
variations. One of my own pieces demonstrated this to me when I tried to
photograph it. When I backlit the piece the density variations really stood
out. But the color variations disappeared. (I used white and shades of
off-white randomly throughout the piece.) When I frontlit the piece the
color variations were really obvious, but the density variations
disappeared. So I had to both light it from the front and from behind to get
a good photo. It took all day and a horrendous backache to achieve it.

http://lynxlace.com/images/r12l.jpg 

Lorelei

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[lace] Colour

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi

I have had several emails from prominent lacemakers adding their support to my
comments about monochrome and coloured lace. One added concern regarding
colour when displaying lace as monochrome stands may look less attractive than
brightly coloured ones.  I saw a very colourful display that had silk drapes
of various colours across the stand behind monochrome lace. The silk set the
lace off perfectly and the stand was very attractive. Lace is by definition a
fabric with holes produced as it is made. Therefore the background can give
all the colour the lace needs.

Blow the dust

Alex

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[lace] Anny’s patterns

[Clay Blackwell]

Several of Anny’s friends and students have been helping her family sell the 
remaining books and patterns which were in stashes all over the world!  I have 
just a few left and would love for them to find good homes.

Please check the list and let me know if you would like a picture of any of 
them.

“Virginia”. (A Cardinal on flowering Dogwood)
“Haspengouw”. (Interesting book marker with fruits)
“Etta J’sButterfly”
“Winter Fairy” (One of my favorites... I’ve made it several times,)
“DC’sCherry Blossoms”

Clay

Clay Blackwell
Virginia, USA

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Re: [lace] defining lace

[Clay Blackwell]

Sent from my iPad


There are
> On Apr 5, 2018, at 9:20 AM, Sue Babbs  wrote:
>
> snip...
> This made me wonder if is possible for Devon to include any historical
display
> boards with photos of early needle and bobbin lace (in white)  and the
> colourful braids from which the bobbin lace evolved and the very colourful
> raised embroidery (stumpwork) being done in the mid-1600s.

> Sue, there are two excellent books that do just that!  The first is Lace - a
History  by Santina Levey.  The other is Trois Siecles de Dentelles, compiled
by the Museum of Art and History in Brussels.

Clay


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Re: [lace] defining lace

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

I actually don’t disagree with you, Gil. I was just “thinking out loud,” let’s 
say. You make a great point about early bobbin lace being more like braiding 
than lace. 

Best,
Elena

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Re: [lace] What do bobbin and needle lace have in common?

[Elena Kanagy-Loux]

Pardon, I didn't realize we were specifically discussing contemporary examples. 
I was interested in the overall debate. Of course, lots of lace is made in 
color, I myself enjoy making bobbin and needle lace in color as well - although 
I love white too! I love it all, honestly, no matter what one wants to call it. 
:)

Best,
Elena

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Re: [lace] defining lace

[Sue Babbs]

I agree with many of you, the recent discussions on Arachne have been quite
fascinating.

Gil Dye said bobbin lace in the 16th century:  bobbin lace evolved in the
sixteenth century from braid making and exactly the same techniques were used
for the colourful surface decorations in metal threads and coloured silks as
for the white linen bobbin lace on the ruffs of the time - where bobbin and
needle lace were often used together, and were sometimes barely
distinguishable.

This made me wonder if is possible for Devon to include any historical display
boards with photos of early needle and bobbin lace (in white)  and the
colourful braids from which the bobbin lace evolved and the very colourful
raised embroidery (stumpwork) being done in the mid-1600s.

Sue

suebabbs...@gmail.com

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RE: [lace] Colour in lace

[DevonThein]

Regarding Alex’s insightful comment, I have to say that I go back and forth
about color in lace myself. On the one hand, I like color. On the other hand,
the palette of lace making is texture and pattern. When you are using pattern
and differences in density for your palette you tend to use the techniques of
bobbin lace and needle lace  to their ultimate.  In fact, it has been a bit of
a problem in staging the exhibition. The exhibition isn’t very colorful. The
most vibrantly colorful objects are ones made by the lace artists of the
1970s. That phase appears to be over. Now lace artists are using the palette
of pattern and texture to a greater extent, and are working in monochrome,
even if the chrome may be red or black. I am finding myself realizing that
lace technique developed in an environment of monochrome and miniaturization.
But, modern art galleries are large places that typically display large
colorful art.

Devon

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[lace] defining lace

[Gilian Dye]

I have been very interested in the recent discussions on Arachne,
particularly the information about the 1970s revival of needlelace and the
increase in interest in crafts in countries apart from England. Thank you
to all who have added to the knowledge of our heritage in this area.

Now the discussion has moved on to attempts to define lace, all very
thought provoking, but I have no expectation that we will ever reach any
conclusion that we can all agree!
I suggest that there are a wide range of fabrics/items that 99% of
lacemakers and non-lacemakers would look at and say 'that's lace'. These
could be made by any one of numerous techniques, by hand or machine or a
combination of both (Kate Middleton's dress was machine net and
machine-made motifs, the lace fabric as a whole was assembled by expert
hand stitchers). The problem of definition comes when we are looking at
work that is not small and white with lots of holes, but uses techniques we
usually associate with lacemaking - particularly bobbin and needle-lace,
but also the craft laces such as tatting, knitting, crochet, filet,
Tenerife  Personally I am happy to leave the subject slightly fuzzy at
the edges, but I'm not sure this is going to be any help to Devon with her
catalogue entries!

On a specific point I'm afraid I disagree with Elena - bobbin lace evolved
in the sixteenth century from braid making and exactly the same techniques
were used for the colourful surface decorations in metal threads and
coloured silks as for the white linen bobbin lace on the ruffs of the time
- where bobbin and needle lace were often used together, and were sometimes
barely distinguishable. Bobbin lace techniques can still be used for making
a wide variety of shaped and straight braids some of which (eg Milanese)
would be easily recognised as lace, but others are much more solid and
would be described as braids.

Gil
>From a chilly Northumberland, where the sun is shining for the first time
for more than a week

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[lace] Colour in lace

[Alex Stillwell]

Hi Arachnids

Here is a comment I found interesting regarding lace. When I became involved
in teaching a pilot scheme for City & Guilds I tried to get on a BTECH course
for design but unfortunately it was on the same days as I was teaching.
However, when I discussed why I wanted to attend the course with the head of
department he said ‘I will have to give you plenty of work on textures.
Textures are your colour.’

Traditionally most lace has been monochrome and the designs a balance of
textures, light and shade. When you add colour you upset this balance because
colour immediately becomes dominant and overpowers the subtleties of the
textures. Hence when colours become the design the changes in texture usually
have to be reduced so that the design is not overloaded and many techniques
have to be modified to accommodate the requirements of moving the coloured
threads to where they need to go.

I am a monochrome traditionalist at heart but that does not stop me from
enjoying coloured lace nor from helping students who wish to explore using
colour and positively encouraging those who show a flair with colour. But I
object strongly to those who are dismissive of traditional monochrome lace and
wonder if they are jealous of those of us who are able to make it. We need to
keep the best of the traditional techniques going while embracing new
developments.

Blow the dust

Alex

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Re: RE: RE: [lace] Nordfors Clark, Contemporary Needlelace

[Catherine Barley]

Original message
>From : devonth...@gmail.com

Subject : RE: RE: [lace] Nordfors Clark, Contemporary Needlelace




Devon


I have no desire or inclination to spend anymore valuable time reading through 
lace/embroidery books to clarify/establish facts as to the current 
description/identification of various forms of needlelace, so this will be my 
last and final posting on the subject.

I am truly thankful that the responsibility of submitting an accurate 
description of some of the exhibits to be staged in Devon's forthcoming 
exhibition, does not rest on my shoulders, but if it did, I think I would be 
inclined to invite the workers of these exhibits to provide their own thought 
process on the production of their works. The press/media did an excellent job 
of unwittingly hoodwinking the naïve public into believing that the lace for 
Katherine Middleton's wedding dress was handmade lace!  However, as lacemakers 
ourselves, we all know this fact to be inaccurate, as we are able to identify 
handmade lace from machine made lace, and know that it was most definitely 
machine made lace and not handmade lace!

One would be hard pushed to find any of the stiches Devon refers to from Jill's 
book ie chain stitch, coral stitch, stem stitch, Cretan stitch, Ceylon stitch 
in a 'how to' book on needlelace techniques (other than hers of course), but 
have no problem whatsoever finding them in many Embroidery books, as that's 
what they are - Embroidery stitches!  I did quickly thumb through Jill's book 
only to discover that all her stitch samples are worked on needlepoint canvas, 
enabling the worker to maintain an even tension - I decline to comment on this 
practice.  I am proud to have a piece of my own Contempory 3-D strawberries 
portrayed in this very same book but do not claim it to be 'Needle LACE' in the 
strict sense of the word 'Lace' but rather a Contemporay work utilising 
needlace techniques!

On page 83 she describes the method of working the buttonholed Argentan ground, 
where she states 'This is the complex Argentan ground which is not for the 
faint hearted' and gives detailed instructions/diagrams as to how to work this, 
including the preparation required to couch down the supporting cordonnet and 
explains how the work is finally removed from the background fabric.  This will 
of course result in it being free from any supporting fabric and would qualify 
as a true sample of 'stiches in the air'.  What she doesn't say however, is 
that this would traditionally be surrounded by other more closely worked 
buttonhole areas to support it, but presumably her use of it is to work it over 
the top of maybe a closely worked corded Brussels foundation/fabric?  Devon 
also mentions that Jill uses weaving techniques in her works but this technique 
is the main distinguishing feature to be found in Halas lace also. 

Perhaps a more accurate description of these Contemporay works would be that of 
a' Needle worked background fabric, embroidered/enhanced with 
buttonhole/embroidery stitches'?  Do you honestly believe that a beautiful 
piece of Point de Gaze, Yougal, Amelia Ars, Halas, Burano, Alemcon etc fall 
into the category of Embroidery?  Possibly Limerick, Carrickmacross or Tambour 
work but surely not any of the above!

Catherine Barley

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com



 with the intention of bringing awareness of the term 'lace' to the attention 
of the general public

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Re: [lace] What do bobbin and needle lace have in common?

[Catherine Barley]

Original message
>From : enkanagyl...@gmail.com

Subject : Re: [lace] What do bobbin and needle lace have in common?


In a recent viewing of 17th century English embroidery, I noted that some of 
the stitches used to fill in backgrounds behind raised work resembled Hollie 
Point, but in color. But we would not call that lace. Raised work itself is 
obviously a very close relative of needle work, with the difference sometimes 
seeming to only be the use of white vs color. 
I’ve also been researching early English lace as you all know, and it seems 
like most early references to needle lace lump it in with embroidery, whereas 
“lace” alone denotes bobbin lace, but not in all cases. 

So how do we distinguish? A truly perplexing question indeed.


The only difference is not just the use of white v colour as there are plenty 
of bobbin lacemakers who work mainly in colour - Jane Atkinson for one.  There 
are also many needlelace workers who work only in colour and whose names have 
been brought to my attention here in these discussions on the subject.  The 
difference is that if the needlelace stitches are worked onto a background 
fabric, it is embroidery but if it can stand alone without the need of a 
background fabric to support it, it is needle 'lace' in the true sense of the 
word.  Please don't complicate matters by thinking that a piece of needlelace 
that has been worked in the traditionally accepted manner before mounting onto 
a background fabric and then put into a frame, is embroidery - it is not, 
because it can stand alone and one can see through it, it does not need a 
background fabric because it is lace that was not worked onto a background 
fabric of any description..  Also these EARLY references do lump it into!
  embroidery but we're discussing the 21st century needlelaces, not the 17th 
century use of it.  Alencon and all of the other traditional needlelaces, which 
are not 21st century inventions are without any doubt whatsoever needlelace and 
will not be found lumped in with embroidery if  searched for using the words  
'Alencon Needlelace' but the word 'Needlelace' alone, clearly does.  

Catherine Barley

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catheinebarley.com

Catherine Barley

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com 

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