Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Anthony wrote: (By the way, to answer Frederick more directly, the laws surrounding joint authorship are *not* relatively universal. In the UK, joint authorship works in almost exactly the *opposite* way. In order to exploit a joint work, you need the permission of *all* the joint authors, not just one.) Yes, I talked with Francis Davey about this and he said the same. The joint work rules are an American pecularity and generate lots of well- paid legal work drafting contracts to get around them. Everywhere except the USA there isn't this problem. Does anyone have insight into how Wikipedia deal with this? Is it even a concern for them, and if not, why not? 80n ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
I asked two attorneys in the USA to look into the question of whether the OSM map data falls under copyright. Please see earlier messages in this thread for details of how the lawyers were chosen and the question asked. They produced a written report which they asked me not to distribute publicly because of attorney-client privilege. I have sent a copy of that report to the LWG and the OSM board, and I am happy to share a copy with anyone who'd like to see it, but I think it is necessary to have some results which can be fully public. To this end the lawyers have produced a public version which does not mention OSM by name, although the issues addressed are those relevant to our project. You can see the report at http://membled.com/work/osm/Map_Project_Memo_public_FINAL.pdf -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: I asked two attorneys in the USA to look into the question of whether the OSM map data falls under copyright. Please see earlier messages in this thread for details of how the lawyers were chosen and the question asked. They produced a written report which they asked me not to distribute publicly because of attorney-client privilege. I have sent a copy of that report to the LWG and the OSM board, and I am happy to share a copy with anyone who'd like to see it, but I think it is necessary to have some results which can be fully public. To this end the lawyers have produced a public version which does not mention OSM by name, although the issues addressed are those relevant to our project. You can see the report at http://membled.com/work/osm/Map_Project_Memo_public_FINAL.pdf This is good work Ed. Very clear and seems to address, full-on, most of the issues surrounding the topic. There's a word missing in the last line of section 2 (b). I guessing from the context the missing word is 'enforce'. In case it isn't, could you seek confirmation from the authors? Some of the conclusions I get from this (and others are welcome to draw out other conclusions and loose ends) are: * Maps are copyrightable, even when stored and represented as a database. * Facts are not copyrightable, but the creative bar is very low and if any originality is involved (selection, coordination, or arrangement, no matter how crude humble or obvious) then anything except the raw facts is copyrightable. * Tracing from maps, and from GPS tracks, is most likely copyrightable. Although the GPS tracks are unlikely to be copyrightable. * Individuals contributions will have copyright status if they pass the orginality test (selection, coordination, or arrangement, no matter how crude humble or obvious). * If the map is considered to be a compilation then all contributors, as joint authors, have joint copyright ownership. The hanging question in my mind is, if we assume, for the moment, that every contributor has joint copyright ownership, what rights would they actually have? Do they have full and unrestricted copyright in the whole compilation? Are they bound, or limited, by any of the terms or conditions that they agreed to when signing up? Are they in any way limited by the CC-BY-SA license grant? Would the Contributor Terms deny them any of their joint ownership rights? 80n ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 2:30 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: * Tracing from maps, and from GPS tracks, is most likely copyrightable. Although the GPS tracks are unlikely to be copyrightable. Oops, I meant to say: * Tracing from imagery, and from GPS tracks, is most likely copyrightable. Although the GPS tracks are unlikely to be copyrightable. * If the map is considered to be a compilation then all contributors, as joint authors, have joint copyright ownership. And this point is specifically applicable in the US. Does this joint authorship doctrine apply in other jurisdictions? 80n ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
Hi, On 12/08/2011 02:20 PM, Ed Avis wrote: They produced a written report I am intrigued by the joint authorship concept. If that was true (relatively) universally, then we could perhaps use that to force even those who haven't agreed to the license change to allow us (their co-authors) to continue to distribute their part of the work under a license we choose. At least under German copyright law, this would only require us to share our profits with them, and since our profit is zero, this whole issue could make the license change a breeze! Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
Am 08.12.2011 15:46, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, On 12/08/2011 02:20 PM, Ed Avis wrote: They produced a written report I am intrigued by the joint authorship concept. If that was true (relatively) universally, then we could perhaps use that to force even those who haven't agreed to the license change to allow us (their co-authors) to continue to distribute their part of the work under a license we choose. At least under German copyright law, this would only require us to share our profits with them, and since our profit is zero, this whole issue could make the license change a breeze! Well the concept is not new and has been suggested before at least in a couple of the major OSM countries have concepts of joint authorship (UK, Germany for example), but the consequences seem to differ quite a lot in the details. But the overriding reason why this is a path best not taken is that force boils down to legal action. And while for example in Germany permission to change the licence could not be unreasonably withheld, you would still have to ask each contributor first (unlikely that no answer would be considered consent). In summary I don't quite see how the report changes anything, summarized it states: a) maps are copyrightable in the US (not that we didn't know that) b) online maps are copyrightable in the US (we assumed that too) c) you could make a case that the underlying data of an online map is copyrightable (which we assume to some point for style files and similar... for the actually geographic data it is probably just speculation) d) we need a set of contributor terms that control the relationship between the mappers and the OSMF (very novel suggestion ... one could argue that the current CTs don't really cover all relevant points but that is a different discussion) Simon ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright status of OSM map data - publishable memo for USA
Simon Poole simon@... writes: In summary I don't quite see how the report changes anything, summarized it states: a) maps are copyrightable in the US (not that we didn't know that) b) online maps are copyrightable in the US (we assumed that too) c) you could make a case that the underlying data of an online map is copyrightable (which we assume to some point for style files and similar... for the actually geographic data it is probably just speculation) I think it's rather stronger than you could make a case. While the report is couched in conservative lawyer-speak, my understanding from speaking to the two attorneys is that it's pretty clear: the underlying data of the map falls within copyright. If you like, I could send you the full report which addresses OSM and the ODbL specifically? -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
