Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Well, for sure, some things stand out more when you look at the code on paper. Sometimes, scrolling up and down on a screen tends to obfuscate the code. This is more so (at least for me) with assembler code (which I'll admit to not knowing as well as C). Kevin From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Douglas Wooster Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:32 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version I always liked doing my own keypunching -- and I can **still** code better if I scribble the corrections on a fanfold listing! (multiprocessing: two 360-30's with 14KB (!) DOS supervisors which everybody said was too big) Douglas Re: [LINUX-390] Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R to: LINUX-390 08/22/2008 09:20 AM Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Didn't you mean that someone else could make punching mistakes for you? Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mark Perry wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) This didn't seem the time to mention what I used before I was promoted (public service) to an IBM shop. Operating systems there were SCOPE, MSOS and MASTER. We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. I found coding sheets easier, then someone else could punch holes in cards. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 attachment: image001.gif
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Well, for sure, some things stand out more when you look at the code on paper. Sometimes, scrolling up and down on a screen tends to obfuscate the code. This is more so (at least for me) with assembler code (which I'll admit to not knowing as well as C). Code? We had hex dumps about 8+ inches thick (today there would probably be a company policy about lifting so much weight)- just tear and twist a corner for a bookmark (maybe with comment), and use a highlighter pen for the interesting data on a page. Of course the backside of the continuous sheet output could be used for disassembly/comments/diagrams etc. ;-) Then we would work out an amaspzap fix. Kids today... mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
On Thursday 21 Aug 2008, John Summerfield wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? There was something called PCP that predated MFT but I am happy to say I never worked on it! :D See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_mainframe -Robin -- -- Robin Atwood. Ship me somewheres east of Suez, where the best is like the worst, Where there ain't no Ten Commandments an' a man can raise a thirst from Mandalay by Rudyard Kipling -- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Robin Atwood wrote: On Thursday 21 Aug 2008, John Summerfield wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? There was something called PCP that predated MFT but I am happy to say I never worked on it! :D See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_mainframe One of the three OS variants. They used the same JCL and bits not implemented (eg REGION on MFT and PCP) were checked and otherwise not used. PCP Primary Control Program. One job at a time, each job has dedicated use of all disks, tapes etc. I think printing was online, not spooled. Did not find its way into OS/VS. MFT Multitasking, Fixed partition sizes. I suspect changing their size required IPL, at least in earlier versions. In OS/VS, it was VS1. MVT Multitasking, variable regions. Programs could be waiting for region, even between steps if region was specified on the exec card. Became OS/VS2 Rel 1 (SVS) in OS/VS. ASP and HASP were add-ons. OS/VS VS2 Rel 2 was the initial release of MVS, and _that_ is what eventually became z/OS. HASP became JES2 and ASP became JES3. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Mark Perry wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) This didn't seem the time to mention what I used before I was promoted (public service) to an IBM shop. Operating systems there were SCOPE, MSOS and MASTER. We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. I found coding sheets easier, then someone else could punch holes in cards. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Here we go again g... I remember using Hollerith punched card machines. They were little things where you had to punch the zone (10, 11, 12?) and the numeric # to create coded alpha and numerics on the cards. No IBM 026 or 029 card punches in those days. If we made a mistake on the Hollerith, we would put a chad back in the incorrectly punched hole and smooth it in with a fingernail. Those worked OK until they replaced the brush card reader on the computer itself with optical readers. Then it was hit and miss with the chads. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mark Perry wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) This didn't seem the time to mention what I used before I was promoted (public service) to an IBM shop. Operating systems there were SCOPE, MSOS and MASTER. We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. I found coding sheets easier, then someone else could punch holes in cards. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Didn't you mean that someone else could make punching mistakes for you? Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mark Perry wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) This didn't seem the time to mention what I used before I was promoted (public service) to an IBM shop. Operating systems there were SCOPE, MSOS and MASTER. We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. I found coding sheets easier, then someone else could punch holes in cards. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
I always liked doing my own keypunching -- and I can **still** code better if I scribble the corrections on a fanfold listing! (multiprocessing: two 360-30's with 14KB (!) DOS supervisors which everybody said was too big) Douglas Re: [LINUX-390] Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R to: LINUX-390 08/22/2008 09:20 AM Sent by: Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Please respond to Linux on 390 Port LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Didn't you mean that someone else could make punching mistakes for you? Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:39 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mark Perry wrote: Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) This didn't seem the time to mention what I used before I was promoted (public service) to an IBM shop. Operating systems there were SCOPE, MSOS and MASTER. We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. I found coding sheets easier, then someone else could punch holes in cards. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 image/gif
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Cox Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 2:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version 1: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.development/msg/a32d4e2ef3b cdcc6 2: http://www.knoppix.net 3: http://www.skolelinux.org 4: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Now if anyone has some dates of when they were started for Slackware, SuSE, or RedHat we can know which is the oldest. As far as I can tell - April 1993 Slackware (update of SLS) (product release as far as I can tell not announcement) - Late 1992 SuSE (based off SLS, then slackware, then developed somewhat). First official release March 1993 (thats product to end users date) Red Hat trundles along in 1994. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? K And those of us who have worked on it too ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Very true. I was feeling fine until you made me feel old this morning g. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Perry Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:25 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? K And those of us who have worked on it too ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
When I installed VM BSEPP, I did not know if the idea of virtualization would last. Now I have a penguin ranch. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:41 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Very true. I was feeling fine until you made me feel old this morning g. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Perry Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 6:25 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? K And those of us who have worked on it too ;-) mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Yeppers. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 11:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Nah, MFT and I don't even remember what release CICS was in (it was macro based, ya know DFHKC, DFHFC etc). Suffice it to say, there was no Restart/Recovery. This was when I was at Allied Breweries in England, we wrote our own (with a lot of IBM cooperation - we had several SEs on site back then) and wrapped it around the DFHKC, FC and TC IBM code. I had heard that IBM used much of our original code for the CICS Recovery/Restart product although don't know whether that was really true or not. When we put new releases of CICS in, we just (from what I remember) had 4 places (DFHKC, FC, TC and maybe SC) to insert a CLC and BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
MFT, MVT, then VS1.I was DOS/VS. Installed CICS 1.0 macro level to replace BTAM stuff like 40407F7F2DOLDER THAN THE HILLS. My new 360/30 had a DISK drive (no more TOS). DFHPCT, DFHPPT, DFHFCT, DFHTCT etc in CICS. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Nah, MFT and I don't even remember what release CICS was in (it was macro based, ya know DFHKC, DFHFC etc). Suffice it to say, there was no Restart/Recovery. This was when I was at Allied Breweries in England, we wrote our own (with a lot of IBM cooperation - we had several SEs on site back then) and wrapped it around the DFHKC, FC and TC IBM code. I had heard that IBM used much of our original code for the CICS Recovery/Restart product although don't know whether that was really true or not. When we put new releases of CICS in, we just (from what I remember) had 4 places (DFHKC, FC, TC and maybe SC) to insert a CLC and BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:11 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version MFT, MVT, then VS1.I was DOS/VS. Installed CICS 1.0 macro level to replace BTAM stuff like 40407F7F2DOLDER THAN THE HILLS. My new 360/30 had a DISK drive (no more TOS). DFHPCT, DFHPPT, DFHFCT, DFHTCT etc in CICS. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Nah, MFT and I don't even remember what release CICS was in (it was macro based, ya know DFHKC, DFHFC etc). Suffice it to say, there was no Restart/Recovery. This was when I was at Allied Breweries in England, we wrote our own (with a lot of IBM cooperation - we had several SEs on site back then) and wrapped it around the DFHKC, FC and TC IBM code. I had heard that IBM used much of our original code for the CICS Recovery/Restart product although don't know whether that was really true or not. When we put new releases of CICS in, we just (from what I remember) had 4 places (DFHKC, FC, TC and maybe SC) to insert a CLC and BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
We had a check 13 pocket sorter that was connected to a printer that printed tapes. When the pocket filled, you pulled the tape and banded it to the checks. (1968) Our primary system was a card only 1401G. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:34 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:11 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version MFT, MVT, then VS1.I was DOS/VS. Installed CICS 1.0 macro level to replace BTAM stuff like 40407F7F2DOLDER THAN THE HILLS. My new 360/30 had a DISK drive (no more TOS). DFHPCT, DFHPPT, DFHFCT, DFHTCT etc in CICS. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Nah, MFT and I don't even remember what release CICS was in (it was macro based, ya know DFHKC, DFHFC etc). Suffice it to say, there was no Restart/Recovery. This was when I was at Allied Breweries in England, we wrote our own (with a lot of IBM cooperation - we had several SEs on site back then) and wrapped it around the DFHKC, FC and TC IBM code. I had heard that IBM used much of our original code for the CICS Recovery/Restart product although don't know whether that was really true or not. When we put new releases of CICS in, we just (from what I remember) had 4 places (DFHKC, FC, TC and maybe SC) to insert a CLC and BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
-Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. In those days I just sat in the tower and told pilots where to go. :-) -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. LOL Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:38 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version We had a check 13 pocket sorter that was connected to a printer that printed tapes. When the pocket filled, you pulled the tape and banded it to the checks. (1968) Our primary system was a card only 1401G. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:34 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:11 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version MFT, MVT, then VS1.I was DOS/VS. Installed CICS 1.0 macro level to replace BTAM stuff like 40407F7F2DOLDER THAN THE HILLS. My new 360/30 had a DISK drive (no more TOS). DFHPCT, DFHPPT, DFHFCT, DFHTCT etc in CICS. Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Nah, MFT and I don't even remember what release CICS was in (it was macro based, ya know DFHKC, DFHFC etc). Suffice it to say, there was no Restart/Recovery. This was when I was at Allied Breweries in England, we wrote our own (with a lot of IBM cooperation - we had several SEs on site back then) and wrapped it around the DFHKC, FC and TC IBM code. I had heard that IBM used much of our original code for the CICS Recovery/Restart product although don't know whether that was really true or not. When we put new releases of CICS in, we just (from what I remember) had 4 places (DFHKC, FC, TC and maybe SC) to insert a CLC and BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? Lea Stahr zVM, Linux and zLinux Administrator Navistar, Inc. 630-753-5445 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Summerfield Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 10:59 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version Evans, Kevin R wrote: Kinda makes one realize how long z/OS (or its ancestors) has been around, doesn't it? MFT? -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, and any attachments and/or documents linked to this email, are intended for the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, proprietary, or otherwise protected by law. Any dissemination, distribution, or copying is prohibited. This notice serves as a confidentiality marking for the purpose of any confidentiality or nondisclosure agreement. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the original sender. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
I'd like to sit in a tower and tell some people where to go g today. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:40 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Evans, Kevin R Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. In those days I just sat in the tower and told pilots where to go. :-) -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
On 8/20/2008 at 12:26 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I'd question that on all sorts of grounds. For one I'm very sure Debian is much much newer than Slackware. Slackware is *old* - really old. You're right, although depending on how you measure age Debian is either only a couple of months or a couple of years younger. I had researched this question some time back when I was going to be giving a presentation on Linux. I could have sworn what I found then revealed Slackware came along after Debian. Looking again now, that just isn't the case. I must be getting old. Argh. -snip- What is 'commercial' ? Trading a product in exchange for money with the intent to make a profit? Works for me. I also assume you mean 'oldest continually maintained' 8) Sure. I thought oldest surviving pretty much covered that. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: BE to re-institute our own recovery stuff). We even had pre-production 3270 screens g. We had a few 2260s on one system; 3270s hadn't been invented yet. I know, this dates me a lot g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:46 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version OS/VS1? VS1=MFT+VS I should have mentioned PCP. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: Mine was 360/50 and a 360/30. When the 30 was replaced with a 2nd 50, we ran the 30 for about a month outside of the computer room (with no air conditioning other than opening the windows) with IBMs blessing. 2311 and 2314 disk drives with a paper tape reader that had a flippable I worked for Amdahl for a while in the late 80s. One of our clients STILL used paper tape. Equipment in the field recorded data to paper tape, and the rolls were read by the computer system running MVS/XA. table so that the paper tapes we got in from construction sites could be read either started at the outside or the inside of the PT spool. 2540 card reader/puches and 1403 printers. Ah, the good ole days.g. Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stahr, Lea Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 1:11 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version MFT, MVT, then VS1.I was DOS/VS. Installed CICS 1.0 macro level to replace BTAM stuff like 40407F7F2DOLDER THAN THE HILLS. My new 360/30 had a DISK drive (no more TOS). DFHPCT, DFHPPT, DFHFCT, DFHTCT etc in CICS. We had a very buggy BTAM application written to APS[1] (Australian Public Service) standards. I don't think anyone else followed them, and it was wholly incompatible with TCAM (no VTAM yet), though I think I could write a bridge now. I got it working well enough to determine that the network (we had remote terminals) was never going to support enquiry traffic, it was way too slow. Later, we revisited the application and I chose to write using EXCP because: 1. BTAM didn't offer a lot. 2. Our real terminals emulated ASCII 3270s. 3. Our test terminals were real EBCDIC 3270s. 4. Supporting both code sets was easy using EXCP, not so using BTAM. It was very educational. [1] This was my introduction to communications. I was a raw CSO1, the technical expert was a CSO4. I didn't really like to bother him with my trivial problems. There's a lesson there for management everywhere. Oh, the test environment was someone else's 168 running MVS, the production environment our 145 with VS1. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Evans, Kevin R wrote: This is getting like Monty Python g. One guy says When we were young, we used to eat the leather from our shoes. The other guy says You had shoes?. OS/360 - some of you guys make me feel young, thanks ;-) You must be around 60, either that or your systems were old at the time ;-) I started on 370s (135,138,145,148,158,168 - 3033, 4341, 3081, 3084 etc.) We wrote our assembler on punched cards and were happy to do so, And you try and tell the young people of today that . they won't believe you. Python: http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
On 8/20/2008 at 2:44 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I may be wrong, but I think Slackware predates the other current distros. See http://lwn.net/Distributions/ Slackware is the oldest surviving _commercial_ Linux distribution. Debian is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, by a little bit. (Credit where credit is due.) Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:05:50 -0600 Mark Post [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/20/2008 at 2:44 AM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Summerfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I may be wrong, but I think Slackware predates the other current distros. See http://lwn.net/Distributions/ Slackware is the oldest surviving _commercial_ Linux distribution. Debian is the oldest surviving Linux distribution, by a little bit. (Credit where credit is due.) I'd question that on all sorts of grounds. For one I'm very sure Debian is much much newer than Slackware. Slackware is *old* - really old. It started off as a fork/takeover of the moribund SLS releases (Soft Landing Systems) which was the first 'big' distro compared with the 5 floppy MCC release. What is 'commercial' ? I also assume you mean 'oldest continually maintained' 8) Thirdly Debian and Red Hat are the same age - they both come from the BOGUS disto which was the first real package management system although MCC had a rather basic but functional packages model long before (and was the first distro proper). SuSE must be up there with Debian/Red Hat for age probably even older as it started as a German translation Slackware/SLS. The lwn distro lists and charts are very incomplete for the earlier days and somewhat inaccurate in places. Fortunately I have a large bookcase of Linux releases going back ... Alan (who started with HJ Lu's boot/root floppy disk pair). -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
I don't know when any of the other distributions started but Debian is having a 15th birthday party in many locations this month. Debian turns 15 On 16 August 1993 Ian Murdock [1]announced a new Linux distribution named Debian. 15 years later the project started by him is the biggest Linux distribution worldwide, offering more than 20 000 software packages maintained by over 1'000 volunteers, supporting more hardware architectures than any other Linux distribution, and providing a base for more than twenty active derivatives, like [2]Knoppix, [3]Skolelinux or [4]Ubuntu. 1: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.development/msg/a32d4e2ef3bcdcc6 2: http://www.knoppix.net 3: http://www.skolelinux.org 4: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Now if anyone has some dates of when they were started for Slackware, SuSE, or RedHat we can know which is the oldest. -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
1: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.development/msg/a32d4e2ef3bcdcc6 2: http://www.knoppix.net 3: http://www.skolelinux.org 4: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Now if anyone has some dates of when they were started for Slackware, SuSE, or RedHat we can know which is the oldest. As far as I can tell - April 1993 Slackware (update of SLS) (product release as far as I can tell not announcement) - Late 1992 SuSE (based off SLS, then slackware, then developed somewhat). First official release March 1993 (thats product to end users date) Red Hat trundles along in 1994. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Alan Cox wrote: 1: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.development/msg/a32d4e2ef3bcdcc6 2: http://www.knoppix.net 3: http://www.skolelinux.org 4: http://www.ubuntu.com/ Now if anyone has some dates of when they were started for Slackware, SuSE, or RedHat we can know which is the oldest. As far as I can tell - April 1993 Slackware (update of SLS) (product release as far as I can tell not announcement) - Late 1992 SuSE (based off SLS, then slackware, then developed somewhat). First official release March 1993 (thats product to end users date) Red Hat trundles along in 1994. Check out http://futurist.se/gldt/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Red Hat trundles along in 1994. Check out http://futurist.se/gldt/ I've seen it - its inaccurate in many places and missing key distributions that form the links - eg BOGUS. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
Alan Cox wrote: Red Hat trundles along in 1994. Check out http://futurist.se/gldt/ I've seen it - its inaccurate in many places and missing key distributions that form the links - eg BOGUS. One distro I've not seen mentioned yet is Brutal. I't's not _that_ old, but on seeing its capabilities I surmise its creator might be a guest in one of HM's fine institutions, or someone's equivalent. Even Google doesn't know it. I found it at planetmirror, an Australian mirror of the known universe, and from its description it seemed the creator had a keen interest in illegal snooping-type activities. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Distribution ages, was: Linux version
On 8/20/2008 at 6:11 PM, in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alan Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -snip- I've seen it - its inaccurate in many places and missing key distributions that form the links - eg BOGUS. The June 21, 2007 version lists BOGUS. When was the last time you looked? Perhaps they've received enough feedback to improve things. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
