Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Alan Altmark]

On Thursday, 02/16/2017 at 07:58 GMT, Douglas Wooster  
wrote:
> And for extra credit, you could run the z/VM on Hercules on an x86 box 
:)

Only if the x86 were Mantissa on CMS or BOCHS on Linux on your z machine. 
Darn those annoying license agreements! :-)

Alan Altmark

Senior Managing z/VM and Linux Consultant
Lab Services System z Delivery Practice
IBM Systems & Technology Group
ibm.com/systems/services/labservices
office: 607.429.3323
mobile; 607.321.7556
alan_altm...@us.ibm.com
IBM Endicott

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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Paul Flint]

Dear Doug,

But not on VM370...

https://hub.docker.com/r/flintiii/vm370/

Regards,

Flint

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017, Douglas Wooster wrote:


Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:58:07 -0500
From: Douglas Wooster <d...@isomedia.com>
Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port <LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU>
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

And for extra credit, you could run the z/VM on Hercules on an x86 box :)

Douglas

-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick
Troth
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

On 02/16/2017 07:46 AM, Paul Flint wrote:

I am going out on a limb here and suggesting that Mantissa somehow
compiled something like ReactOS?


Mantissa figured out a way to run X86 (32-bit and 64-bit) binaries and
operating systems on top of z/VM. (ReactOS, Windows, Linux, *BSD, anything)

Looks pretty slick. Based on what they've leaked on this and other email
lists, they leverage CP services and functions to optimize the
capabilities of the underlying z hardware. They've been wowing people at
SHARE and other conferences for at least the past 5 years. I have not
heard if they actually released a salable product or if anyone has
purchased, trialed, or beta tested.

A somewhat slower performer would be to port BOCHS to CMS and run your
Windoze systems on that.

-- R; <><




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Kindest Regards,



☮ Paul Flint
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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Douglas Wooster]

And for extra credit, you could run the z/VM on Hercules on an x86 box :)

Douglas

-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick
Troth
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 1:11 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

On 02/16/2017 07:46 AM, Paul Flint wrote:
> I am going out on a limb here and suggesting that Mantissa somehow
> compiled something like ReactOS?

Mantissa figured out a way to run X86 (32-bit and 64-bit) binaries and
operating systems on top of z/VM. (ReactOS, Windows, Linux, *BSD, anything)

Looks pretty slick. Based on what they've leaked on this and other email
lists, they leverage CP services and functions to optimize the
capabilities of the underlying z hardware. They've been wowing people at
SHARE and other conferences for at least the past 5 years. I have not
heard if they actually released a salable product or if anyone has
purchased, trialed, or beta tested.

A somewhat slower performer would be to port BOCHS to CMS and run your
Windoze systems on that.

-- R; <><




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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Rick Troth]

On 02/16/2017 07:46 AM, Paul Flint wrote:
> I am going out on a limb here and suggesting that Mantissa somehow
> compiled something like ReactOS?

Mantissa figured out a way to run X86 (32-bit and 64-bit) binaries and
operating systems on top of z/VM. (ReactOS, Windows, Linux, *BSD, anything)

Looks pretty slick. Based on what they've leaked on this and other email
lists, they leverage CP services and functions to optimize the
capabilities of the underlying z hardware. They've been wowing people at
SHARE and other conferences for at least the past 5 years. I have not
heard if they actually released a salable product or if anyone has
purchased, trialed, or beta tested.

A somewhat slower performer would be to port BOCHS to CMS and run your
Windoze systems on that.

-- R; <><




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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Paul Flint]

Greetings Timothy Sipples,

Excellent...exemplairily weird.

I had never heard of z86VM or Mantissa (http://www.mantissa.com/).

I am going out on a limb here and suggesting that Mantissa somehow 
compiled something like ReactOS?


Holy lisense fees!  I see lawyers reserving tickets...

Thanks again Timothy and...

Kindest Regards,

Paul

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017, Timothy Sipples wrote:


Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:40:02 +0800
From: Timothy Sipples <sipp...@sg.ibm.com>
Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port <LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU>
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

For another "bizarre" answer, this path might work:

1. Obtain z86VM (beta) from Mantissa Corporation;
2. Obtain Microsoft Windows from Microsoft;
3. Install and run Microsoft Windows on z86VM on z/VM;
4. Obtain Oracle Database for Windows from Oracle;
5. Install and run Oracle Database for Windows on Microsoft Windows on
z86VM on z/VM.

Oracle Database 11g Express Edition is available here, at no charge, if
you'd like to experiment with this particular recipe:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/database-technologies/express-edition/overview/index.html

To my knowledge, Mantissa's z86VM product is still in beta. Some
information is available here:

http://www.mantissa.com/mantissa-product-families/virtualization/

Mantissa has not certified Microsoft Windows yet, as far as I know. For
now, at least, you'll need to stick to 32-bit Windows and 32-bit Oracle
Database since z86VM does not include X86-64 support.

I'm not sure why there's a desire (or curiosity?) to run Oracle under z/VM
without Linux, but I'm answering the question as asked.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Kindest Regards,



☮ Paul Flint
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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Timothy Sipples]

For another "bizarre" answer, this path might work:

1. Obtain z86VM (beta) from Mantissa Corporation;
2. Obtain Microsoft Windows from Microsoft;
3. Install and run Microsoft Windows on z86VM on z/VM;
4. Obtain Oracle Database for Windows from Oracle;
5. Install and run Oracle Database for Windows on Microsoft Windows on
z86VM on z/VM.

Oracle Database 11g Express Edition is available here, at no charge, if
you'd like to experiment with this particular recipe:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/database-technologies/express-edition/overview/index.html

To my knowledge, Mantissa's z86VM product is still in beta. Some
information is available here:

http://www.mantissa.com/mantissa-product-families/virtualization/

Mantissa has not certified Microsoft Windows yet, as far as I know. For
now, at least, you'll need to stick to 32-bit Windows and 32-bit Oracle
Database since z86VM does not include X86-64 support.

I'm not sure why there's a desire (or curiosity?) to run Oracle under z/VM
without Linux, but I'm answering the question as asked.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Duerbusch, Tom]

Dreaming...

When Oracle was supported under VM, it was VM/SP.  It was 24 bit code.
I also want to say it was in 370 mode which, I think, has long since bit
the dust in the CMS world.

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:27 AM, David Boyes  wrote:

> > Am I dreaming to assume that Oracle would actually=20 support 7 on a
> current z/VM?
>
> Probably not. I'm sure if you a) managed to find a copy, and b) threw
> large bales of cash at them, they'd find a way, but Oracle 7 was long, long
> ago. I doubt any modern application would be able to connect to it, and all
> their VM talent has long ago gotten other jobs and moved on. I doubt they
> even have a way to generate a license key for it anymore, but you'd have to
> ask them.
>
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>



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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Bernd Oppolzer]

We tested Oracle on z/VM at my former customer's site;
this must have been version 5.x - the time frame in the end 199x years.

We had to drop it, because performance was so bad. The problem was that
the different Oracle processes that make up the Oracle database were
implemented
as different VM machines which commuicated via IUCV. If the load on the
VM system
was heavy, the commuication between the Oracle processes took much to long.

In constrast, SQL/DS (or DB2/VM, as it was called later) is implemented
in one
VM machine, and the communication is done inside this machine. It did not
suffer from similar problems; it was even able to support the VSE guests
(using
Guest Sharing) in an acceptable response time.

We stopped all the "Oracle on VM" activities and changed the Oracle
licences fees
(which was about 25 Deutsche Mark, IIRC) to Oracle licences for AIX
and RS/6000s.

Kind regards

Bernd


Am 14.02.2017 um 16:35 schrieb Paul Flint:

Dear David,

Thanks.  You Sine-Nomine-Associates are clearly wise folks with a
whole lot of experience...  Am I dreaming to assume that Oracle would
actually support 7 on a current zVM?

Regards,

Flint



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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Paul Flint]

Greetings David,

Once again wise words from the "SNA Gateway"...

:^)

I gotta say that the option Tim Sipples, proposed of running Oracle in a 
zOS guest under VM is a bit more practical than running Oracle 7, I just 
find it facinating that Oracle appears to have abandoned VM, but not MVS.


On the other hand, I have done my time with Oracle...

Thanks and...


Kindest Regards,

Paul Flint

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017, David Boyes wrote:


Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:27:34 +
From: David Boyes <dbo...@sinenomine.net>
Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port <LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU>
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?


Am I dreaming to assume that Oracle would actually=20 support 7 on a current 
z/VM?


Probably not. I'm sure if you a) managed to find a copy, and b) threw large 
bales of cash at them, they'd find a way, but Oracle 7 was long, long ago. I 
doubt any modern application would be able to connect to it, and all their VM 
talent has long ago gotten other jobs and moved on. I doubt they even have a 
way to generate a license key for it anymore, but you'd have to ask them.

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Kindest Regards,



☮ Paul Flint
(802) 479-2360 Home
(802) 595-9365 Cell

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Based upon email reliability concerns,
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Paul Flint
17 Averill Street
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05641

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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[David Boyes]

> Am I dreaming to assume that Oracle would actually=20 support 7 on a current 
> z/VM?

Probably not. I'm sure if you a) managed to find a copy, and b) threw large 
bales of cash at them, they'd find a way, but Oracle 7 was long, long ago. I 
doubt any modern application would be able to connect to it, and all their VM 
talent has long ago gotten other jobs and moved on. I doubt they even have a 
way to generate a license key for it anymore, but you'd have to ask them.

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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Timothy Sipples]

Oracle Database up through 10g R2 *can* run under z/VM without Linux. I'm
referring to Oracle Database 10g R2 for z/OS, and of course z/OS can run on
z/VM very well indeed.

Hypothetically, Oracle or an authorized Oracle remarketer could ship Oracle
Database in virtual "appliance" form for z/VM, similar to the Oracle
virtual appliances available for Oracle VM VirtualBox. However, that
hypothetical virtual appliance would still include at least a few parts of
Linux.


Timothy Sipples
IT Architect Executive, Industry Solutions, IBM z Systems, AP/GCG/MEA
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?

[Paul Flint]

Dear David,

Thanks.  You Sine-Nomine-Associates are clearly wise folks with a whole 
lot of experience...  Am I dreaming to assume that Oracle would actually 
support 7 on a current zVM?


Regards,

Flint

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017, David Boyes wrote:


Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 14:14:15 +
From: David Boyes 
Reply-To: Linux on 390 Port 
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Oracle under z/VM without Linux?


I realize that this may be a genuinely stupid question, but is it possible
to run Oracle directly under IBM z/VM like you can with DB2?


Not anymore. The last version of Oracle to run as a CMS application was Oracle 
7. Current versions of Oracle on z/VM all require a Linux guest.

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Kindest Regards,



☮ Paul Flint
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