Re: License creator source

[linux_il]

Nadav Har'El wrote:
 On Sun, Aug 17, 2003, Oren Gozlan wrote about License creator source:
 
I'm not sure that this is the place.. But ...
 
 
 Indeed, it probably isn't.
 Asking such a question on linux-il is almost like asking how do I cook
 steak on a vegetarians' mailing list - even if people know, they are not
 likely to want to admit it :)
 
 
I'm looking for a starter source to build a license key that will be
expired after 30 days.
 
 

What about freedom of information?  What if he wants to know this for
other purposes than the ones you so readily assumed (e.g. just learn)?

Generally, off the top of my head - what you have to do is to write a
text like:

Valid until -MM-DD HH:MM:SS
digest this (e.g. MD5) and sign the digest with a private key
on your private machine.
The license file will look like:

Valid until -MM-DD HH:MM:SS
signed digest of the above

Provide the protected program with this file and a public key (possibly
compiled and hidden in the program's binary).

The protected program will have to read all the lines not including
the signed digest, digest it too (e.g. MD5 again), decrypt the
signed digest of the above
using the public key which comes with it and compare the two. If they
are the same then the license file is probably valid.

You can find asymmetric keys encryption implementations on the net.

The program can probably be attacked in several ways, one way I can
think of right now is to replace the public key in the program so it
matches the attacker's invented private key. Another is that the code
which checks the license will be skipped altogether.

(Don't worry about the GPL comment sent by someone - there is probably
also non-GPL code floating around).

--Amos

This is my vegetarian day - I eat only vegetarian animals.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Linux Lectures in Tel Aviv

[linux_il]

Parking is a big problem. Whenever I had to get there for any reason
finding a parking space was a nightmare or costly (or both).
Fridays are inconvenient too.

Ariel Biener wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Yedidyah Bar-David wrote:

I think TAU is the better place in all respects. Just like the Technion,
it is a large university, with many resources (and many more students).
I would like to ask everyone to give Eddie the time he needs. Don't forget
he has his job to do as well. I think Eddie did a great job of creating
this TAU-LUG all on his own during this year, and he should be commended.
I suggest that people learn to be more patient, and not jump the gun.

Also, I bet no one thought of it, but we could use IIUCC (Machba) video
conferencing capability and their network to broadcast the HAIFA-LUG
lectures to a room at TAU, and people could watch there, or the TAU-LUG
lectures to the Technion, and people could watch there.
There is alot one can do inside the university consortium, one just have
to think first, and jump afterwards.
--Ariel

 

On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 07:15:02PM +0300, Tal Achituv wrote:
   

Shachar Shemesh wrote:

 

[snip]
   

And for those with a car - it has FREE parking, as opposed to TAU...
 

That's not exactly true - on Fridays there is a lot of free parking
around tau.Even weekdays, on the relevant hours (18:00 and later)
have some free parking (but not as much as in Fridays).
--
Didi
   

I really have no idea how many people intend to arrive by car, bus, train,
or walk from their TAU dorms... is this information available anywhere?
 

I don't think so. Maybe we should start voting.
--
Didi
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   

--
Ariel Biener
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP(6.5.8) public key http://www.tau.ac.il/~ariel/pgp.html
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
To block spam or change delivery options: http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos-sha.com as your personal domain? http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell! http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5
 



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [OT] Java linkage

[linux_il]

Hi,

Would Tal clear this up, please? I'm intrigued.

I feel like everyone else understood that you want to know if you changed
the interface of your own class while I read your question that you want to
know if the new version of the class depends on new external code.
Who's right?
Thanks,

--Amos

Tzahi Fadida wrote:

maybe i don't understand, why do you need to do this?
usualy you use the interface mechanism for this.
i.e:
create an interface that this class should implement and make sure
your internal java files know about this interface. and u'd never have to worry about 
it.
if you both use/implement the same interface then it has to comply, else it wouldn't 
comply. just make sure you put the interface in a seperate java file and that you both 
use it.
* - * - *
Tzahi Fadida
MSc Student
Information System Engineering Area
Faculty of Industrial Engineering  Management
Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
Technion City, Haifa, Israel 32000
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Technion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tal Achituv
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:05 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
I'm looking for a solution for internal affairs :-) not with clients...

we do that class changing thing allot here, and looking for a way to resolve
this dependency issue.. I have the sources.. no need to decompile...
Is there a tool that supports this advanced versioning issue?

Thanks,
Tal.
-Original Message-
From: Ron Gidron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:51 PM
To: 'Tal Achituv'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
Well, 

I hope you guys don't use an obfuscator :-)
What I would do is first check CVS (or whatever you use) and see what
changes were made in the class. If you find that these changes are to
dramatic then you can get the class from the clients application, decompile
it (google java decompiler) fix the code, recompile and send them the fixed
class. Ugly yes! But it should work.
Be good.
Ron
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tal Achituv
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:14 PM
To: 'Ron Gidron'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
Yes, When I wrote the mail I was confused myself - as there is no real
link in java...
here's the problem:

I have to supply a patch for a software build 18, and am currently working
on build 22 of the same software.
I wonder if I can just give them the class from the b22 and put it instead
the patch requiring class of the b18...
Now I need to wait until runtime to see if this class really fits... :-)

seems like I'm not the first to hit this problem... as in the C world you
simply link...
(I know the class from b22 compiles... I don't know if it links with all
the others correctly... [lets say a method signature changed])...
Do you know if there is a solution in the industry??

Tal.

-Original Message-
From: Ron Gidron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:04 PM
To: 'Tal Achituv'
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
How do you mean **links**?
AFAIK Class files are independent and are executed as such by the JVM,
There is no traditional linkage done in Java and there is no linker. The JVM
is responsible to download all the referred classes that you class refers to
AT RUNTIME...
I hope I understood the question well, please feel free to ask again or
elaborate your previous question.
Regards
Ron 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tal Achituv
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:00 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: [OT] Java linkage
Hi all

Is there a tool / method to check if a compiles java object (class) links
correctly?
Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tal Achituv.
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


   



To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
To block spam or change delivery options: 

Re: when was the beginning?

[linux_il]

Hmmm. I'll have to cross-check with the people who did this
with me (e.g. Izar, formerly from Aduva, and maybe Marc was
involved too), but as far as I can tell I already installed Linux on
a 386 Olivetti as early as mid-1992 at HUJI CS. We had NFS and
YP (NIS) and AMD (automounter). No X11 at the beginning.
It was one of the 0.99 kernels.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

When did the use of Linux in Israel have begun ??
According to linux-forum at Tapuz there were 
some users in 1993. 
Follow the link to my question there: 
http://www.tapuz.co.il/tapuzforum/main/Viewmsg.asp?id=236msgid=17037541 

Maybe someone knows HARVEY STERN ??
Because he was the one who lit the fire... 
(according to Doron Ofek)

---
Walla! Mail, Get Your Private, Free E-mail from Walla! at:
http://mail.walla.co.il


=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
To block spam or change delivery options: http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell! http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5
 



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [OT] Java linkage

[linux_il]

import caluses are meaningless here. They are just a syntactic sugar to
let programmers avoid having to type the full package names every time they
reffer to a class.
The class signature also has nothing to do with this since as I understand
the question Tal wants to know whether all the classes/methods used from
within the new version of the class are available in the classpath at 
runtime,
he can, for instance, use some new com.company.xxx.AClass.AMethod()
from the new version.
(Not to mention dynamic class loading with reflection and Class.forName()).

I myself am not aware of such a tool. If you don't have dynamic class 
loading
in the code then you might want to look at some Apache Java (Jakarta) side
projects like BCEL (http://jakarta.apache.org/bcel/index.html) for 
something to
base your own code analysis on. (e.g. run a Java program with the relevant
CLASSPATH, extract reffered method calls and class names from the code
and try Class.forName() on them. Then make sure that the found class comes
from a relevant CLASSPATH component. In addition use reflection to lookup
the particular method/constructor within the loaded class).

--Amos

Uzi Refaeli wrote:

Donot know about such a tool but you can check that:
* The new class dose not import classes that are not in the application cp.
* The class signature is the same.
good luck

 

From: Tal Achituv [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:14 PM
To: 'Ron Gidron'
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
Yes, When I wrote the mail I was confused myself - as there is no real
link in java...
here's the problem:

I have to supply a patch for a software build 18, and am 
currently working
on build 22 of the same software.

I wonder if I can just give them the class from the b22 and 
put it instead
the patch requiring class of the b18...

Now I need to wait until runtime to see if this class really 
fits... :-)

seems like I'm not the first to hit this problem... as in the 
C world you
simply link...

(I know the class from b22 compiles... I don't know if it 
links with all
the others correctly... [lets say a method signature changed])...

Do you know if there is a solution in the industry??

Tal.

-Original Message-
From: Ron Gidron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:04 PM
To: 'Tal Achituv'
Subject: RE: [OT] Java linkage
How do you mean **links**?
AFAIK Class files are independent and are executed as such by the JVM,
There is no traditional linkage done in Java and there is no 
linker. The JVM
is responsible to download all the referred classes that you 
class refers to
AT RUNTIME...

I hope I understood the question well, please feel free to 
ask again or
elaborate your previous question.

Regards
Ron 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Tal Achituv
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:00 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: [OT] Java linkage
Hi all

Is there a tool / method to check if a compiles java object (class) links
correctly?
Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Tal Achituv.
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
To block spam or change delivery options: http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell! http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5
 



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Candidate for next mini-CD occasion

[linux_il]

Local Area Security Linux

http://www.localareasecurity.com/

The Slashdot story:

http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/03/08/12/1747200.shtml?tid=106tid
=126tid=172tid=185

And since it's based on Knoppix maybe it can be tweaked to
be used as a bootstrap for installing Debian.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Secure kernel problem

[linux_il]

Not that I'm familiar with this particular problem but which JDK/JRE are 
you trying
to use? GTK makes me suspect it's the latest Sun 1.4, am I right?
Have you tried IBM's JDK?
Also - I've just read in Slashdot a couple of days ago that some people
at RH have generated an Eclipse compiled with GCJ, with reports of improved
startup and performance, maybe you'd like to try these as well (and report
back).

Cheers,

--Amos

Oded Arbel wrote:

Hi list.

I have a problem running Eclipse (free java development environment) 
under
Mandrake's secure kernel (grsecurity patched) - when ever I try to run 
the
eclipse executable, I get this error:
java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError:
/home/odeda/local/eclipse-dev/eclipse/plugins/org.eclipse.swt.gtk_3.0.0/os/linux/x86/libswt-pi-gtk-3016.so:
/home/odeda/local/eclipse-dev/eclipse/plugins/org.eclipse.swt.gtk_3.0.0/os/linux/x86/libswt-pi-gtk-3016.so:
failed to map segment from shared object: Permission denied


I've tried to search the web, but the only thing I got was an email on
SecurityFocus's Vuln-Dev list saying something to the effect that 
grsecurity
blocks execution of binary objects using ld-linux.so (
http://lists.jammed.com/vuln-dev/2002/04/0184.html ). I can't figure 
out what
do I need to setup in order to get eclipse working again under the 
grsecurity
patched kernel.

Can someone drop some pointer my way, please ?




=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Keysigning issues

[linux_il]

Dan Armak wrote:

When we get digital IDs+keys though, they'll have photos and we'll 
have to

publish the public keys, I guess... Does that mean photos of everyone will be 
available? To whom? Anyone have any links to info on the government's plans 
in this regard?

The government already keeps a digital photo of all driving license holders
in its computers - have you renewed your license lately? (btw, as far as I
remember, they don't have procedures to update this photo :)).
Suppose I post saying 'I'll help write the new version of foobar' and 
sign it.

Can you then sue me for not helping? Wouldn't a legally binding document need 
things like a date, or more than one signature (it takes two sides to make a 
contract)? IIRC even documents which only bind one side to do something are 
usually signed by witnesses (this document was signed in front of me by so-
and-so. sig of witness) but IANAL...

Nope - we just rented an apparetment to someone and all they have to
provide us with their Shtar Arvut (the slip they get from the post 
office) are
signatures of the guarentors (i.e. each guarentor signs for himself) and a
xerox of their ID.

Does the law hold the position that everything said or written is binding as 
long as it can be proved to have been said/written? So that digital sigs 
merely prove that I wrote the document in question? Or do they make it more 
binding somehow?

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Clock Drifts

[linux_il]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2003 at 11:54:19AM +0300, Amichai Rotman wrote:
 Hi Clan,
 
 I have a weird problem: My system time drifts 18 minutes back. I set the right 
 time and after a while (I can't say how long) it goes back 15-18 minutes...
 
 i.e. now: 
 
 my KDE Clock applet reads 11:29
 Aruzei Zahav Digital clock reads 11:47
 output from hwclock reads 11:47
 
 Which means the problem lies with the KDE applet

Not as far as I see it - the problem is with the system time (`date`).
What does it say?

As far as I know, hwclock is relevant for boot and shutdown times (it is read
to the system clock at boot and saved back at shutdown), it's not supposed to
be used anywere else.

1. Does your system read the hwclock at boot time (I think it's standard, at
least with Debian, but check your system).
2. What if you do hwclock --hctosys, does the system keep the time after
that?
3. Can you setup an NTP daemon on that system? It should handle drifting clocks
after a couple of days of running. (run ntpdate server1 server2 server3
immidietly before running the ntp daemon itself).

 
 I have tried to change time with hwclock and right-clicking the applet 
 (through KDE)

It's a 99.99% chance the applet reads the system time, not the harware clock
time. (the other 0.01% is just because I haven't actually looked at the
source).

 
 Both hwclock and the KDE applet settings show IDT as timezone and KDE has 
 Asia/Jerusalem set as area.

Where does hwclock tells the timezone? Mine looks like this:

# hwclock -r
Fri Jul 25 21:39:21 2003  -0.913389 seconds

And also:

% hwclock --version
hwclock from util-linux-2.11z

HTH,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[JOBOFFER] Linux/Unix/Windows system admin

[linux_il]

Hello,

We are looking for a system administrator with experience
with Linux (mostly Red Hat) and UNIX, but who can also maintain
integration with a Windows network and Microsoft Exchange server.

Candidates can e-mail ella.davidson at optier.com. If you have
questions then I'll try to answer them via private e-mail.

Good luck,

--Amos Shapira

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Weird Mozilla/microsoft.com behaviour

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 01:39:26PM +0300, Orr Dunkelman wrote:
 Now, I know that mozilla is faster on my conmputer with my netowrk (same
 proxy, I mentioned?). So the question is this an explorer optimization, or
 microsoft.com just identifies mozilla's and other not-native browsers and
 gets stuck?

I don't know specifically about MS's site, but in general over the last
3+ years I wrote web applications which tried to be as standard-compliant
as possible and generally Mozilla was much much slower than IE when it
came down to DOM manipulation via JavaScript. Mozilla 1.4.2 is supposed to
speed this up but as far as I'm aware it's still not up to par.

BTW - does anyone else get Mozilla-Firebird stuck so often? It shows
Walla better than Konqi and used to be much faster than Mozilla, but now
it gets stuck on me pretty constantly.  I'm using the version available for
Debian unstable.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: What is ARP? [ Was Re: A 2 hosts Ethernet network with a 255.255.255.254 netmask. ]

[linux_il]

On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 07:57:35PM +0300, Shaul Karl wrote:
   You are right that when I ping x.x.x.x I do know the IP address.
 Yet according to the DSL-HOWTO/appendix.html
 
  ARP
  Address Resolution Protocol. Converts MAC addresses to IP
  addresses.
 
 The way   I read this is that an ARP request would send the MAC and expect
 the IP in return. That is, what is known is the MAC and what is looked 
 after is the IP. If my understanding is correct then what both of us are 
 missing is how this integrates into Ethernet communication.

The way I read this is that the quoted document is in error.
Either they were reffering to RARP (reverse ARP, used to be used
for things like what DHCP does today, in combination with bootp)
or they just mixed IP and MAC. Maybe you want to write the author
about this.

Cheers,
--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: apache web server - hardware solution

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 02:00:58PM +0300, Shany Pozin wrote:
 
 My thoughts were :
 
 dual xeon P3 with 2MB cache /  or dual AMD  (don't know which one yet)
 2GB of RAM
 RAID0 array with two 80GB Western Digital 7200-rpm and a Raid controller
 2*LAN 10/100MB
 VIDEO CARD
 CD ROM
 4U case 

I get the impression you are trying to avoid a single point of failure,
am I right?
If that's so then what about having a cluster of at least two machines,
there are planty of ready-made such things for Linux floating around and
people on this list who know them much better than me

As for using WD for the disks - not to start a religious war but they at
least used to have bad reputation.  I got a few recommandations to shell
out a little more and get a Maxtor (and with a very little more it also
came with an 8Mb cache).

As for the dual-cpu requirement - is it a performance requirement?

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: apache web server - hardware solution

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 02:43:07PM +0300, Shany Pozin wrote:
 On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 14:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I get the impression you are trying to avoid a single point of failure,
  am I right?
 
 I will try to tackle this with a load balancer.

And duplicated systems behind it?
I'd suggest looking at the area of content management - to make sure the
systems are in sync without too much manual work.

 the brand was just an example , I am looking for RADI0 best solution ,
 but avoiding SCSI

I was reffering to the disks, nothing about the controller.
As for the RAID controller - there was a thread about RAID controllers
here on the list a couple of months ago, if I remember correctly, you
might want to check the archives.

 
  As for the dual-cpu requirement - is it a performance requirement?
 
 yes it is , I looking for a server that will hold about 500 req/sec
 serving of dynamic pages
 
  
  --Amos
 
 --
 Shany P

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: insane memory usage

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 05:29:21PM +0300, Eran Rundstein wrote:
 Well, before adding 1Gb of ram, I had 384Mb. Adding more RAM didnt affect the 
 performance at all :\

You mean you added RAM just because of this?
Well, you might understand now why the added memory haven't changed things -
it wasn't missing in the first place.

If you suspect you don't have enough RAM then you should look for
signs of excess thrashing (kernel keep reading pages from the disk
because it can't keep their copies in the RAM, and it keeps paging
out to the swap space for the same reason).

If you are generally looking at how to improve your machine's performance
then you should look at what the system in general or individual processes
are waiting on (IO vs. swapping/paging vs. network vs. cpu are the major
groups of options I can think off right now).

I'm not familiar with specific up-to-date tools and methods on how to do this,
I suppose google (and the list) can help you there.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: X keyboard handling

[linux_il]

On Fri, Jul 04, 2003 at 07:50:42PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
 3. Knowing when the user switches between the groups (I think there is 
 an X event that notifies about that, so this may not be a major problem).

Dunno about the rest, but running xev and pressing Left-Alt+Left-Shift
produces an event like:

KeyPress event, serial 27, synthetic NO, window 0x301,
root 0x39, subw 0x0, time 564607667, (105,110), root:(108,154),
state 0x1, keycode 64 (keysym 0xfe0a, ISO_Prev_Group), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 characters:  


(and the releasing of them together produces:)
KeyRelease event, serial 27, synthetic NO, window 0x301,
root 0x39, subw 0x0, time 564607765, (105,110), root:(108,154),
state 0x2001, keycode 64 (keysym 0xfe0a, ISO_Prev_Group), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 characters:  

Looks like the keysym generated is ISO_Prev_Group..

HTH some.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Strange Locale ( was Re: gentoo and Xkb )

[linux_il]

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 09:42:51AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
 (Ok, I know we can trap acceess to it via syscalltrace but)

What was that syscalltrace?

I'm looking for tools in that area and couldn't find such a program
in google or otherwise (specifically - I'm thinking of something which
will report to me all the paths passed to execve(2) anywere in the
system, the closest I found so far is the LinuxTraceToolkit (LTT) but
I suspect it's too heavy for my needs).

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Strange Locale ( was Re: gentoo and Xkb )

[linux_il]

On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 11:10:45AM +0300, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote:
 On Thu, Jul 03, 2003 at 10:56:29AM +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What was that syscalltrace?
 
 http://syscalltrack.sf.net

Thanks.  Sounds like just what I was after, including a Debian package.

 
  I'm looking for tools in that area and couldn't find such a program
  in google or otherwise (specifically - I'm thinking of something which
  will report to me all the paths passed to execve(2) anywere in the
  system, the closest I found so far is the LinuxTraceToolkit (LTT) but
  I suspect it's too heavy for my needs).
 
 Why is ltt too heavy? 

Because all I want is to have a list of file names (and maybe times),
LTT gives much much more about many more things and looks farheavier to
setup and run.

For instance, from reading the docs of syscalltrack all I'll have
to do is to configure it with:

rule {
 syscall_name = execle
 when = before
 action { type = LOG }
}

And get exactly what I want (hmmm, lots of shell/perl hacking on the output,
yummi yummi:)

Thanks,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: hang

[linux_il]

% cd /usr/src/kernel-source-2.4.20
% find -name \*.c | xargs egrep '(nopentium|nonpentium)'
/arch/i386/kernel/setup.c:  * mem=nopentium disables the 4MB page tables.
/arch/i386/kernel/setup.c: if (!memcmp(from+4, nopentium, 9)) {

I think this gives a definitive answer, doesn't it?

--Amos

On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 02:25:32PM +0300, Itay 'z9u2K' Duvdevani wrote:
 Thread says,
 mem=nopentium
 
 Others say,
 mem=nonpentium
 
 /usr/src/linux/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt says,
 there's no such kernel parameter...
 
 Which is the correct? (or, if it exists? and if so, why isn't it documented?)
 
 -- 
 Regards,
 Itay 'z9u2K' Duvdevani, GNU/Linux Kinneret.
 Public GPG Key: ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/kinneret/z9u2k.asc
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 To block spam or change delivery options: 
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz6_58z35eg0
 
 ReturnPath.net http://rd.mailshell.com/ad481
 Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell! 
 http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Captain Internet Responds

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 10:22:35AM +0300, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
 Aviram Jenik wrote:
 
  Unfortunately, despite several attempts by Shachar and Ira, we couldn't get 
  the Captain to meet Hamakor face to face for further explanations. However, 
  we're very happy with the community support and the wave of responses that 
  came to Hamakor and the various Linux forums.
 
 Is there really such a person? Usually there are several people who write

Your assumption sounds reasonable to me, but whether it's a single person
or a group of ten writers, I think it could be VERY beneficial for the
community if someone (Hamakor being the obvious candidate) could invite
these people for a well-though-out demonstration.

It reminds me of what we did at our gliding club - the air controllers used
to give u order we couldn't do (get up over 6000 feet within the next 5
minutes). So the club invited them for a flight and a lecture and since
then they mostly understand our limitations and are more flexible with
our needs.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[JOBSEEK] Looking for a job

[linux_il]

Hello,

I'm looking for some system and/or Java and/or C/C++ and/or network
programming job.

My resume is available in multiple formats under:
http://picton.bard.org.il/Resume-li
(MS Word, OpenOffice, RTF and HTML)

Thanks for any pointers,

--Amos Shapira

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Problems with PASV ftp

[linux_il]

On Tuesday 24 June 2003 11:14, Herouth Maoz wrote:
 Quoting Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I'm afraid that this command line does not leave enough info in the
  parsed output to say anything about the result. Can you please add a -w
  filename to the command line, and then send (at least me) the file? In
  the case of FTP, the content of the communication stream is extremely
  important.

 OK. I created a file, and a transcript of the session, and a similar

Hmm, it's a bit hard to see the sequence of commands in the packets - did you
use -s to increase the part of the packets which gets snapped? (-s 0
should capture the entire packet).

But even from the transcript it looks like ftp does some things before it
gives you the prompt - do you have a .netrc file? What does it contain (remove
passwords if required)? Does ftp -n makes a difference?
And what does ftp -v show?

And finally - can someone with access to IGLU's ftp daemon's log let us take
a look at them?

Cheers,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Cable Internet DNS Problem

[linux_il]

On Sunday 22 June 2003 16:41, Shaul Karl wrote:
   I am not aware of any limitation for editing it as far as policy is
 concerned. On the contrary. The fact that it is under /etc might

policy or no policy - the bottom line is that when you upgrade the package
it will (or supposed to) notice that you touched the file and put aside one
of the versions and you'll have to merge your changes into the new version.

Sometimes it's unavoidable, but it better be avoided for the sake of the
admin's sanity.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Problems with PASV ftp

[linux_il]

On Monday 23 June 2003 07:22, Herouth Maoz wrote:
 Yes, indeed. I used set passive in ncftp, and examined the
 transcript later to be sure that indeed it was sending the PASV or
 the PORT command as indicated. And I tried with every Mandrake PPC
 mirror - copied and pasted the URL to ncftp. With PORT and no
 firewall, it works. With PASV, it doesn't. I also made sure the site
 supported passive access - by trying to access it from work.

What about a tcpdump of the connection? Did you set verbose + debug on?

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Applying open source pressure on SCO

[linux_il]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 06:09:01PM +0300, Dan Armak wrote:
 The Boycott SCO apge on pclinuxonline.com has an interesting suggestion:
 Linus, please deny SCO the right to the Linux trademark until they drop these 
 suits and agree in writing to never pursue them again against any Linux 
 vendor.

What is the practical meaning of this, and how exactly would it affect SCO?

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Applying open source pressure on SCO

[linux_il]

On Thursday 19 June 2003 20:16, Dan Armak wrote:
 IANAL, so I don't really know either way. AFAIK you can't forbid someone
 from using your trademark if he isn't directly competing with you, and a

Can anyone define the verb use trademark? What does it mean? It's not like
SCO claims their software is Linux, right?  And they stopped selling
Linux-based software, right?

This might be getting over the edge of the scope of the list, but it's about
user rights and definitions of legal terms we encounter virtually every day
today, so I hopethe powers that be will bear with me.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Arik Baratz's phone number, anyone? (it's urgent)

[linux_il]

If someone has Arik Baratz' phone number then I'd appreciate it if you could
send it to me (direct, to the address above). He expressed interest in my
Alcatel modem and I need to know if it's still relevant before my partner
buys the Samsung for money this afternoon. He didn't reply to my e-mail.

Thanks,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

summary about ADSL problems - just got stuck at Actcom

[linux_il]

So to sum up the ordeal:

1. Bought a new Samsung modem - I was told at the Even Gvirol branch that it 
costs 400 and that 240 is only for the special package, but when I bought it 
somewere else they charged only 240, maybe she was nice to me and considered
my purchase as part of the special.

2. Came home, modem seemed to have conected fine but still pppoe couldn't 
connect.

3. Called Bezeq (again) - they can't help Linux users.

4. Called Actcom (again) - this time the guy there (who haven't been 
intimidated from Linux) saw that my connection was stuck since about the 
time my power went south and the problems began. After he released it 
(whatever that means) things startted working again.

(5. the guy at Actcom said that sometimes it's possible that their releasing 
is not enough and I might have to call Bezeq, this time I was spared.  He 
also said that powerdown and such sometimes get ADSL connections stuck).

Thanks for everyone's help, hope someone finds this summary useful.

Now I'm looking for papers about this whole ADSL business and how it works.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets

[linux_il]

Thanks. I 'm aware of that button.
I dthis reset this morning but it didn't help.
Actcom support (a Debian user himself, it turned) said that
as far as he's aware once Bezeq notices you use PPPoE they'll
support on PPPoE on the line. Bezeq support denied this.
Bezeq support also said they don't support PPPoE on that
modem and the only thing they can tell me to do is to reset the modem.

My next line of options:

1. Test it with the Windows machine connected directly to the modem.
2. Upgrade the modem to PRO and use its dialer.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Guy Teverovsky 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:14 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets
 
 
 There is a small button (about a size of a pinhead) at the back of the
 modem.
 Use it to reset the modem to factory defaults. Reboot the modem
 (disconnect/connect the power) and let it sync.After that it 
 should work
 with PPTP.
 
 Guy
 
 On Mon, 2003-06-16 at 09:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hello,
  
  I've followed the instructions of enabling PPPoE on Linux
  as described at http://www.isoc.org.il/~doron/PPPoE.html
  and it worked at first but now after a reboot it stopped.
  
  I get multiple messages like Timeout waiting for PADO packets
  and some Timeout waiting for PADS packets. I tried configuraing
  the modem back to the PPTP setup but the old PPTP doesn't 
 work either
  (gives same messages, but much less of them).
  
  The modem is an ethernet SpeedTouch Home, debian unstable. ISP
  is actcom. Kernel is 2.4.20 with mppe and preemptive patches.
  
  I googled for the error message but it looks like people mostly
  suspect the line or the ISP, not the setup. Also the PPTP broke
  so I don't know where to proceed.
  
  Any hints anyone?
  
  Thanks,
  
  --Amos
  
  =
  To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
  the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
  echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 -- 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 To block spam or change delivery options: 
http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [META] Messages Received Twice [was Re: nfs blocking mount]

[linux_il]

From a quick skim through the headers I wonder if it could
be a bounced message which gets injected back into the list?
Stops after one loop - because of that extra header or because it
noticed that bounce string in there?

 -Original Message-
 From: Beni Cherniavsky 

 And these extra relays include cs.huji.ac.il itself twice!  The list
 signature is also doubled.  I wonder why it loops once but not more.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets

[linux_il]

Thanks a lot.

It indeed helped to see where I'm standing.

I talked to Bezeq wow support and it turns that if my modem
is still under worranty they will replace it for me at BezeqStore
with a Samsong at no cost.

It's a bit of a shame to get rid of this modem because it is supposed
to be upgradable to PRO and act as a router and dialer (on the other
hand, people here posted links to sites which show that it's a security
hazard).

So if someone wants to buy it for 400NIS (the price I'll have to pay for the
Samsong modem if I don't give back the Alcatel) please send me a
note, just be quick because meanwhile me and my partner are off the net,
VE-ZE KO-EV :-).

Cheers,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Yasha Harari 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:34 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets
 
 
 suggestion: try using the blue samsumg modem that your isp 
 should be able to
 provide. bezeqint provided me with one when they switched me 
 from pptp to
 pppoe (did so without asking me even).
 
 i had a similar problem when they switched me from PPTP to 
 PPPoE ... i ended
 up having to play with the alcatel modem for a couple weeks 
 but even that
 modem with its internal goodies (it has a router built-in) 
 was not able to
 connect ... so i ended up connecting with their samsung blue 
 modem ... and
 yes, it is true (according to the several Bezeq and 
 Bezeqint.net support
 staffers i spoke with) that they don't like to support PPTP 
 on their dsl
 lines, so once you have a PPPoE modem, they *do* turn off 
 your PPTP ... this
 is their policy since at least 5 months now...
 
 i hope that helps...
 
 yasha
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tue, June 17, 2003 8:18 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets
 
 
  Thanks. I 'm aware of that button.
  I dthis reset this morning but it didn't help.
  Actcom support (a Debian user himself, it turned) said that
  as far as he's aware once Bezeq notices you use PPPoE they'll
  support on PPPoE on the line. Bezeq support denied this.
  Bezeq support also said they don't support PPPoE on that
  modem and the only thing they can tell me to do is to reset 
 the modem.
 
  My next line of options:
 
  1. Test it with the Windows machine connected directly to the modem.
  2. Upgrade the modem to PRO and use its dialer.
 
  Any other suggestions?
 
  Thanks,
 
  --Amos
 
   -Original Message-
   From: Guy Teverovsky
   
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 3:14 AM
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for 
 PADO/PADS packets
  
  
   There is a small button (about a size of a pinhead) at 
 the back of the
   modem.
   Use it to reset the modem to factory defaults. Reboot the modem
   (disconnect/connect the power) and let it sync.After that it
   should work
   with PPTP.
  
   Guy
  
   On Mon, 2003-06-16 at 09:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
   
I've followed the instructions of enabling PPPoE on Linux
as described at http://www.isoc.org.il/~doron/PPPoE.html
and it worked at first but now after a reboot it stopped.
   
I get multiple messages like Timeout waiting for PADO packets
and some Timeout waiting for PADS packets. I tried 
 configuraing
the modem back to the PPTP setup but the old PPTP doesn't
   work either
(gives same messages, but much less of them).
   
The modem is an ethernet SpeedTouch Home, debian unstable. ISP
is actcom. Kernel is 2.4.20 with mppe and preemptive patches.
   
I googled for the error message but it looks like people mostly
suspect the line or the ISP, not the setup. Also the PPTP broke
so I don't know where to proceed.
   
Any hints anyone?
   
Thanks,
   
--Amos
   

 =
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run 
 the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   --
  
  
   =
   To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
   the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
   echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
  
   -- Your email is protected by Mailshell --
   To block spam or change delivery options:
  http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157qv2pz
 6_58z35eg0
 
 Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
 http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
 Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
 http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Re: PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets

[linux_il]

I was just quoting Bezeq Store's site
(https://www.bezeq.co.il/application/bezeqstore/scripts/prod.asp?prod_id=20948)
I put my plan on the table, no intention to make profit out of this
but people here quoted the PRO at 1000 NIS a couple of weeks ago so I
though if someone wants it for less then they are welcome to it.

From Barak Bloch [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 17 Jun 2003:

 Hi
 the samsung eth300 cost 240 NIS at bezeq store
 (áæ÷ñèåø)
 , and its easy to 
 upgrade it to router  (maybe easy than upgrade the alcatel 
 home
  to 
 PRO).
 
 anyway - in ~90$ , u can buy real router (no need to hack/upgrade)
 wi
 th 4 
 ports built in (no need to use  switch/hub) and inline adsl modem 
 so 400 NIS  for old Alcatel is... mmm... too much?
 
 Regards
 Barak.


___
The FREE service that prevents junk email http://www.mailshell.com

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

PPPoE on Linux - timeout waiting for PADO/PADS packets

[linux_il]

Hello,

I've followed the instructions of enabling PPPoE on Linux
as described at http://www.isoc.org.il/~doron/PPPoE.html
and it worked at first but now after a reboot it stopped.

I get multiple messages like Timeout waiting for PADO packets
and some Timeout waiting for PADS packets. I tried configuraing
the modem back to the PPTP setup but the old PPTP doesn't work either
(gives same messages, but much less of them).

The modem is an ethernet SpeedTouch Home, debian unstable. ISP
is actcom. Kernel is 2.4.20 with mppe and preemptive patches.

I googled for the error message but it looks like people mostly
suspect the line or the ISP, not the setup. Also the PPTP broke
so I don't know where to proceed.

Any hints anyone?

Thanks,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [OT] Spamming (was [OT] A note about internet zahav customer care)

[linux_il]

 From: Arik Baratz
 I beg to differ. Robbers know that what they are doing is not 

When was the last time you got a spam from the true address?
Why would they do that unless they wanted to try to cover their
tracks.

 They would then proceed to claim that the police force is an 
 organized group of bullies [rest of line snipped...]

well, I'd subscribe to such a claim...:-)

(not that I'm against law and order, it's just that my encounters with
the Israeli police led me to the conclusion that they aren't helping the
cause).

--Amos

PS The most rediculous spam I got a couple of times over that last week
is a spam about Clean you mailbox from spam!

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: nfs blocking mount

[linux_il]

 From: Oded Arbel 

 Ira Abramov wrote:
 
 How can one get a list of mounted filesystems without getting blocked
 running df or mount with a dead NFS server? I am writing a little

 How about reading /etc/mtab ?

And then do what with that info? You just get a static list as maintained
by mount/unmount.  It still won't prevent you from accessing a broken
NFS server.

That's unless I'm missing some Linux-specific trickery...

But back to Ira's original question and Oded's suggestion combined -
1. get the list (from /etc/mtab or wherever it is under /proc)
2. If it's a host:/directory format then try pinging the remote host.
3. You can also try rpcping and I suspect there is also some sort of nfsping
to check accessability of the nfs server.
4. Access the filesystem.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: nfs blocking mount

[linux_il]

Use the soft mount option?

http://btr0xw.rz.uni-bayreuth.de/cgi-bin/manpages/mount/8

Hope this helps.

BTW - have you considered other network filesystems?
I'm aware that NFS is much more portable, but if it's
between all-linux machines then I heard about other network
filesystems which sound to be more advanced.

--Amos


 -Original Message-
 From: Ira Abramov
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 lshell.com
 ]
 Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 8:39 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: nfs blocking mount
 
 
 How can one get a list of mounted filesystems without getting blocked
 running df or mount with a dead NFS server? I am writing a little
 status monitor script to see if NFS is up or down and what's 
 mounted. if
 I mount and then disconnect the server, running mount or df just hangs
 blocked till the server comes back. any way to read the mounts tables
 without having to get blocked if there is a problem?
 
 Thanks,
 Ira.
 
 -- 
 The place to be
 Ira Abramov
 http://ira.abramov.org/email/
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 To block spam or change delivery options: 
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

ReturnPath.net http://rd.mailshell.com/ad481
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 02:20:42PM +0300, Ely Levy wrote:
 Yea, But the EU beat you to it. they stardart working on a promoting a

I'd replace But with and. Sounds like part of the road was already
done.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?

[linux_il]

On Sunday 08 June 2003 22:42, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
 Government decision that all schools should use OpenOffice would also cost
 the taxpayers (maybe less) and lock out the competition. The only visible
 difference is that we win and they lose. That's OK, but speaking in
 these terms and speaking about public benefit and freedom in the same time
 doesn't sit well.

OK, you are right, so let's define it in matters which REALLY matter, for
instance, define it in terms of the document format: The format must be
completly documented and open (i.e. its definition cannot be changed
at will by some closed interest group, but by some open standards body).

As a government, I think there is some obligation to them to put out a tender 
and choose the best option, where money must play a part. Even if they choose
MS at the end of the process - the format will still have to be open and
they'll probably have to pay less for it (see, for instance, the slashdot(?) 
item about how Lindows resellers get MS products for 50$).

Would that be practicle and satisfy the requirement you described above?


  Microsoft seems to DO have the us vs. them mentality, as you put it.
  They

 They have to. Otherwise the shareholders would sue them :)

Fine. So as I said - MS's shareholders defined the rules - let's play that 
game until we have enough power to rewrite the rules.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: FS/OS in schools: why don't *they* tell us what they want?

[linux_il]

On Friday 06 June 2003 16:25, Vadim Vygonets wrote:
 Quoth [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, Jun 06, 2003:
  I have a feeling that schools are a very important goal - see how Mac's
  survived for so long simply because they managed to take over the
  American schools section.

 Why are you so keen on taking over the world?

I'm not. I just see:

1. How microsoft uses copyright laws to its advantage (BSA and friends) but
ignores them when it's convenient for them.
2. People get used to use microsoft at school and take it with them everywere 
else. Hurting microsoft there might let us get a foot in an important door. 
How do you think UNIX and related technologies found their ways to 
corporates? they were carried by students who got exposed to them at uni.

And why do I care about this? Because this morning I couldn't setup sendsms 
because registring at Orange requires IE, which I don't have on my Linux 
desktop. I see this as one of the many end results of the chain which 
startted, among other things, by ok, let's use Microsoft, what else is in 
the world? at schools.


- They are teaching (badly, but that's outside our scope) to use
software that (I hope) won't be used nearly as much much in the not
too distant future (ie by the time people now in 7th grade graduate).
  
   You should teach *something*.  Why is C taught in schools?  Is it
   the best programming language?  Is it widely used?  Well, yes, it
   is, but will it be widely used in five years?
 
  As much as I'm into object-oriented programming these days, I remember
  C was expected to die a horrible death already over ten years ago and
  still it's here alive and kicking.

 *Of course* it's alive and kicking -- it's taught almost
 everywhere.  Chicken, meet egg.

I don't agree to this reasoning. Pascal was also tought at many places (still 
is?) but it never took off as a mainstream application language.  On the 
other hand Perl is almost never offered at university courses but somehow 
everyone knows about it and use it. Therefore I don't see correlation between
tought and used.


  Not to start a flame war

 I'll start it with someone else instead, then.

Good. I hate flame wars.


   What did I miss?  Is OpenOffice the new Israeli standard?
 
  What about suggesting this to the ministry of education, as a matter of
  standardizing the silabus and the school's IT systems?

 I prefer troff with -mm macros.

 Serioiusly though, I don't have the us vs. them mentality on
 this matter; I can't see why schools should teach MS Word, but I
 can't see why they should teach OpenOffice either.  If we want to
 promote diversity, we should teach a little bit of everything.

Good - so Microsoft is welcome to port their stuff to Linux :).

Seriously - the average person in the street isn't aware about the 
alternatives. The standard costs the tax payers a lot of money and locks 
out the competition. This is what brought us to the current situation.

Microsoft seems to DO have the us vs. them mentality, as you put it. They 
sort of setup the rules that way. Let's play them with what we have.


 Vadik.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Force reboot a machine?

[linux_il]

On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 04:26:14PM +0300, Shaul Karl wrote:
 On Tue, Jun 03, 2003 at 02:23:16PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
 
About serial consol - anyone has a 
  RJ-45 to D9 serial cable?
  

And where would you connect that RJ45?

This part of the discussion reminds me that back about 7 years ago
when I took part in some tiny ISP there was some hub laying around there
which could take serial cables and make them available over telnet,
(each serial port mapped to a different TCP port) very useful for remote
access to serial ports.  Is this what you had in mind?

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Symulation of WitForMultipleObjects on Linux

[linux_il]

Hi,

About the WaitForMultipleObjects on Linux - it indeed looked like a useful
thing back in the NT 3.51 days, except that it didn't work for Socket handles
and the limit of 64 objects was annoying (had to accomodate for unlimited
number of threads and file handles).

You might want to look at the Reactor pattern (or just its implementation)
in ACE to see how you might approach this in a portable way.

http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/ACE-overview.html

Hope this helps, would be curious to hear how things turned out.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Hamakor finally established!

[linux_il]

On Wednesday 02 April 2003 17:00, Alon Altman wrote:
   I think making the official membership card a blank CD-R/RW with the
 member's details outside should be best. Also, I think each member should
 get a signed (by the amuta) file certifying he/she is a member up to a
 certain date, and that file can be placed on the membership CD or otherwise
 used as a digital membership certificate (if it includes the member's
 public key as well).

   Alon

(I'm not replying particularly to this message, but to the whole thread in
general)

All these ideas are nice and sexy, but I think there is still this little
matter of funding.

I'd like to suggest that maybe such membership cards would be offered
as marchendies (i.e. anyone intrested in such a card(s?) will pay for it).
That way:
1. The expenses of these cards fall only on those interested in it (I'm not
sure when I am going to use this card, or even if I'll find it useful once
or twice a year its cost might still be too high, and I don't see why my
money should go to such cards when more important activities might not
have enough funding).
2. The society's funds go to their purpose (between us - how much does
 such a cool membership card really promotes the society's goals, compared
 to other possible activities?).
3. If charged a bit over the cost then it could be an additional (and legal?)
source of income for the society.

(same thing goes for T-shirts and other possible marchendise -
reflecting on this I suspect that a T-shirt might help spread the word about
the society even better than a membership card).

BTW - wouldn't such matters fit better to a [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing
list? The Hamakor isn't about linux only, and it's a matter for Hamakor 
members.

Cheers,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Looking for SysAdmin Troubleshooter

[linux_il]

On Wednesday 02 April 2003 21:45, Ira Abramov wrote:
 Quoting Official Flamer/Cabal NON-Leader, from the post of Wed, 02 Apr:
  Quoth [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   I am running a RedHat 7.0 system as an Internet gateway for my LAN.  I
   am looking for someone to come in and diagnose and fix a problem I am
   having with connecting to the Internet.  I am in the Gush Etzion area.
 
  Remind me - isn't that somewhere abroad? ;-)
 
  obTROLL!

 indeed. Gush Etzion is not beyond the green line, Marc. It was ours in
 1948 already. read your history books :)

As much as Hebron.

I don't need to go to history books to verify that - my mother was the
massenger who delivered the message about the fall of Gush Etzion
back in 48.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Redhat 9 going out next week???

[linux_il]

On Tue, Mar 25, 2003 at 06:30:55PM +0200, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote:
 No. Will there be? yes. That's one of the reasons for the incompatible
 major version number, to warn you about such things. 
 
  Is there a workaround
 
 Of course. Don't pass binaries around, only source and compile on each
 machine. Compile with -static. Install compatibility library. Heck,
 write in java... 

What about what Debian do? I think what they do is to provide the right
library versions in parallel and so allow gradual transition to the newer
version.

Sounds basic to me, but then I never had to play with this too much, just
used apt-get and friends.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: backup woes

[linux_il]

On Friday 21 March 2003 00:14, Shaul Karl wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 20, 2003 at 07:29:19AM +0200, Michael Sternberg wrote:
  /dev/hda6: Can't read next inode while scanning inode #2453824
  How can I check out to what file belongs this inode ?

   Perhaps with debugfs? That is the only thing I can say about it. Do
 report if you manage to sort it out.

Have you executed this backup on a live filesystem?  Maybe it was
just an inode which was allocated/removed during the backup?


=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Request for update on the current Linux Distributions.

[linux_il]

On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 09:21:38PM +0200, Nadav Har'El wrote:
 The guy basically asked for a faster distribution. With all due respect
 to the various distributions and their specific advantages and disadvantages,
 significant speed difference isn't one of these things. Other that +-10%

I'd subscribe to that (and the rest snipped views and recommandations).

But your reply just shaked my memory about some distribution a few years
ago which was about compiling the entire Linux (based on Debian, maybe?)
with the most optimization options possible, they used to have quite
faster execution times back then (30%+). Does anyone rememeber what I'm
talking about? What happened to them?

--Amos


=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: egged.co.il works

[linux_il]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2003 at 11:35:27PM +0200, Herouth Maoz wrote:
 At 18:47 +0200 on 11/3/2003, Alon Altman wrote:
 
 
   The question is- does it support MSIE 7.0? The answer: They don't know.
 
 This question is the same for a standards-compliant site, because you 
 don't know when one of the browsers is going to pick up on a new 
 standard and ruin everything. This has happened to me lately: I've 
 always used cookies for sessions, it's as standard as muck. Now 
 marketing has asked me to put that site within a frame so that the 
 location bar will show our domain and nothing else. The frameset is 
 in domain A, the frame within it is in domain B. So far, no standards 
 broken, Mozilla works perfectly, MSIE 5.5 works, hunky dory.

Frames are evil, evil evil!

Anyway, try sticking the following header:
P3P: CP=NON

(with quotes).

 
 But MSIE 6 doesn't accept my cookie. This is because is an early 

I don't think you losed something from supporting standards so far,
you would have hit this wall even while using MSIE's dialect wouldn't
you?

 So that argument is out the window as well.

I wasn't convinced, not by this example anyway.

Cheers,
--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Fwd: BSA Accuses OpenOffice ftp sites of piracy]

[linux_il]

On Wed, 2003-03-05 at 20:41, Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
 On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Vadim Vygonets wrote:
 
  Quoth [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, Mar 04, 2003:
   You remind me what I knew about using Windows before I arrived to my
   current workplace.  Outlook is not just a mail client but a (convenient!
   IMHO) address book + calendar + notes + mail organizer. You can say they
   don't belong together but the fact is that the integration is VERY
   convenient.
 
  Seen it.  Not so convenient, and *really* doesn't belong
  together.  Nor do I see the point of having a mailer inside your
  browser.
 
 This is a work around a *problem* of the system/UI.
 
 On my system I simply:
 
   cat  file  [|possible pipe] | {mail|mutt} whatever
 
   cat  file  [|possible pipe] | lpr

And you think it's more convenient than pressing the Print button? 
I've been there and moved on.

(BTW, cat file | program is the most naive beginner mistake, if it's
only one file then you can run program  file, RTFM :-).

 
 Mozilla, Explorer, and such are limited. They can't easily pipe their
 output. So they need to be bloated with all that functionality.
 
 They need all that functionality embedded inside them.
 

I disagree about your conclusion. Just like pipes can be used to move
streams of bytes between programs (unidirectionally!) so can
remote-procedure-calls be used to call plug-ins from main programs
(bidirectionally!).

I used, managed and programmed UNIX since 1986 until 2000. I still
like the power of scripting and such. But when it gets down to reading,
e.g., this very mailing list I find it much more convenient to click
buttons and have the right viewer used automatically embedded in my mail
window as well as the textual data in the right encoding than start
typing   or ^X and Enter and god knows what in a limited 80x40
text-only screen. I also like the ability to click a URL and have the
browser popped-up instead of having to copy-paste the address.

If MS are so wrong about their integration stuff (I'm not familiar with
MS jargon, but I think it's about COM and its descendants) then how come
GNOME and KDE invest so much in imitating this and Linux sites keep
showing off screen shots of these environments? (one claim against them
is that they stole good ideas and implemented them very badly, but still
I find their interface today more convenient to some tasks than the
ASCII-alone world of pipes and command line).

This elitist view that if it's good enough for grandma then it's not
good enough for me looks simply pathetic to me.

Just today someone who works on Mac OS X told me she has a great user
interface but underneath it she can always open a tcsh window and start
typing away (she's has a 2nd degree in CS from HUJI so she feels
comfortable with tcsh).

UNIX command line tools are great for some jobs, but the computer world
haven't frozen 30 years ago when these concepts where first invented.

The UNIX command line interface was invented within the limitations of
the hardware and software technologies of the time, these limitations
have been lifted long ago. I don't see the point of making this
interface sacred just because two decades ago only geeks could use it.

 
   I think you are mixing Outlook Express with Outlook.
 
  Maybe.
 
Why are people so obsessed with spreadsheets?  What do you use
them for?
 
 Spreadsheets allow you to deal with *lots* of data.
 
 Unix scripts tend to be line-oriented, or record-oriented.



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Fwd: BSA Accuses OpenOffice ftp sites of piracy]

[linux_il]

On Thu, 2003-03-06 at 19:51, Ira Abramov wrote:
 the point is, the right tool for the right job. I agree plugins are
 great, and I agree the CLI pipeline is not too smart in many cases to
 serve all the needs, but forking to a new process with several file
 descriptors (not just the one) is a pretty good plugin interface, and
 all you have left to do is decide on a protocol. the two ideas are not

Agreed - when the input fits the interface and the final job at hand
(like fgrep'ing/sed'ing/awk'ing my kern.log to find how many thousands
of attempts were made to access my port 139 and where they came from). 

But why throw away a pretty functional graphic mail client which lets me
view HTML and images nicely and give me mail address completion (because
the address book is integrated in the mail client)? Just because it can
work BOTH with a mouse as well as some keyboard input? And allows me
multi-tasking because the compose window is separate so I can check dig
the mail folder without getting out of the compose window?

If you don't use it then why do you bother with X11 on your display at
all?

 THAT remote if you generalize plugins (SOAP?) and make commandline
 piping stronger (two way or more).

That's basically my point - it sounds like people are a bit fanatical
about CLI and pipes CAN do it all and therefore they MUST be used for
everything and therefore GUI have no right to exist.

I agree that basically pipes in CLI world fulfill similar function to
plugins/RPC/whatever-it's-called-today in the GUI/integrated-interface
world. I think I've even seen attempts with some esoteric shells or UNIX
variants to enable two-way pipes (as well as tricks with named pipes,
but it's never quite robust because of the business of possible
deadlock), evidently it never took off.

What I fail to understand is people's insistence on ignoring or even
despising other ways to do things just because they are different from
the CLI they learned.



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: egged.co.il works

[linux_il]

On Tue, 2003-03-04 at 00:54, Nadav Har'El wrote:
 On Tue, Mar 04, 2003, Tzafrir Cohen wrote about Re: egged.co.il works:
  So another broken site is supported, instead of it being built properly.
 
 Right... And worse, this gives Microsoft a whole new baseline on which they
 can create new divergent technology, which gets further and further from
 W3C standards, while Konqueror continues to chase its tail...

I beg to differ (about MS's standards support).  At my workplace we have
to deal a lot with browsers and their quirks (they are the interface to
everything we do) and to how sites are designed to work with them and we
see improvements towards the standard support as IE moved from 5.0 to
5.5
and now 6.0.

I suspect the problem is less in IE support for standards (which is
getting better) and more in education of site builders who got used to
the notion that good looking sites can't be based on standards,
something which might have been true years ago but no longer so.

 
 This is why Netscape freed the Mozilla sources - to stop Microsoft from being
 able to do that. And this is why Mozilla has very strong opinions on not
 emulated broken IE behaviour.


=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Fwd: BSA Accuses OpenOffice ftp sites of piracy]

[linux_il]

On Tue, 2003-03-04 at 22:05, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I think many people who despise MS (me among them) admit that they are
  kings when it comes to GUI design and usability for non-technical users.
 
 I guess you never used a Mac then...

Not recently. In fact I can't remember when I actually used a Mac.
My clearest memory is circa Apple IIc and Mac 1 (Marc - it's when we
first met - do you remember what year it was?)

 
 Mac OS9 is one of the best UI out there for your grandma. OSX does a 
 fine job as well, althugh the unix under it still tends to pop up a bit 
 to often for a no nothing user (althugh it is getting better, and it 
 is one of the best UIs out there).

Could very well be - it doesn't exclude the idea the MS still know how
to design GUI's, even if others might do it better in some corners (but
MS were probably smart enough to invest in developer tools :).

In any case - putting aside some relatively recent developments in the
Linux GUI world (KDE 3.1 springs to my mind), I still think MS
applications have some more coherancy than, let's say, xterm + evolution
+ mplayer or something like that living on the same screen. And that's a
long way from Motif or Xaw which was what you had to put up with back as
late as the mid-90's (the X Athena Widget set was created just to test
the widget infrastructure and stayed around far too long simply because
there was no other free and generally accepted alternative for years).

 
 Some of MS applications are quite good, but they are by no means best 
 when it comes to the UI (those horrible tabbs in Office's prefrences, 
 anyone?)



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Linux the local trade rags

[linux_il]

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 10:12, Gilad Ben-Yossef wrote:
 So, some of you might be interested in what some people have to say
 about Linux in Israel:
 
 http://www.dailymaily.co.il/26-2-2003/news.htm
 
 (Scroll till you see Shachar and my ugly face :-)

Simply hilarious! Worth a copy at the Internet reporting hall
of shame.

 
 rant
 
 So, I go to this panel, sit right next to the reporter who wrote the
 piece and practically say just *one* single thing and they manage to
 mis-quote me on that one...
 
 If anyone here read Linus biography, you know what he thinks of
 reporters. These kind of things make me understand why.
 
 /rant

So far EVERY time I read something in the newspaper about which I had
some personal knowledge I could find glaring errors in their
understanding of the subject (be it about computers, aviation,
geography, or some obscure events).



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Intel compiler vs. gcc

[linux_il]

On Tue, 2003-02-25 at 16:59, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
 Vadim Vygonets [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  From what I understood, people are complaining that icc takes
  more time to compile the same files than gcc.
 
 It makes sense to me that a compiler that optimizes better with take
 more time.

But if it optimizes better then surely its own code run faster (because
I assume it was compiled by itself) and so the optimization should take
the same amount of time? :-)

Just kidding

--Amos



=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Intel compiler vs. gcc

[linux_il]

What's the point of running two such compilations in parallel?
They just compete on cpu and resources.
Have you tried to do the same (compile X11 and KDE CVS's at
the same time) with the GNU gcc and got better results?

 -Original Message-
 From: Hetz Ben-Hamo
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:20 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Intel compiler vs. gcc
 
 
   They claim 30% performance gain on gcc 3.2..
  
  I've read (don't remember the source, sorry, maybe lkml) that 
  snapshot gcc from CVS is closing the gap quickly. 
 
 My only gripe is that the compile speed itself is 
 SSLLOOWWW... compiling X11 
 CVS + KDE CVS at the same time is a great way to see how to 
 bring your CPU to 
 it's knees..
 
 I wish someone could hack the auto* tools to work with 
 {borland, Intel} 
 compilers...
 
 Thanks,
 Hetz
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Intel compiler vs. gcc

[linux_il]

yes, certainly, I'm aware of make -j 3, but two
separate projects which look at different files and parts of the
disk (causing lots of head skips, cache threshing etc)?

It just sounds wierd to me that someone will run two such
large compilations in parallel and then say that the compiler is
slow. Slow compared to what? gcc in the same situation?

Just trying to watch and learn...

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 2:49 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Intel compiler vs. gcc
 
 
 no it doesn't
 
 there is sense in compiling few things together.
 as a matter of fact, it takes a lot less time to compile the 
 kernel by 
 make -j 30 than by make
 ( at least on my computer)
 
 the reson, is that on the time the cpu wait for the disk to write one 
 file or read another, it can compile another file
 remember that a lot of files use the same header files and compiler 
 files, so it stayes in memory an can be used while
 the cpu is on iowait.
 
 erez.
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 What's the point of running two such compilations in parallel?
 They just compete on cpu and resources.
 Have you tried to do the same (compile X11 and KDE CVS's at
 the same time) with the GNU gcc and got better results?
 
   
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Hetz Ben-Hamo
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:20 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Intel compiler vs. gcc
 
 
 
 
 They claim 30% performance gain on gcc 3.2..
 
 
 I've read (don't remember the source, sorry, maybe lkml) that 
 snapshot gcc from CVS is closing the gap quickly. 
   
 
 My only gripe is that the compile speed itself is 
 SSLLOOWWW... compiling X11 
 CVS + KDE CVS at the same time is a great way to see how to 
 bring your CPU to 
 it's knees..
 
 I wish someone could hack the auto* tools to work with 
 {borland, Intel} 
 compilers...
 
 Thanks,
 Hetz
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
 
 
 v2pz6_58z35eg0
 
 Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
 http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
 Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
 http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Intel compiler vs. gcc

[linux_il]

I don't see how you concluded that this point was missed.

It still doesn't mean that it's not legitimate to look at the performance
gains these 306$ might give people who are willing to invest them.

I made a small bet with someone from management that our company will be
asked by a customer to run our software on Linux before the end of 2003,
the Intel compiler might be a good investment for us (we are aware of at
least one customer where our performance already was the breaking point
to make us win a deal over the competition).

 -Original Message-
 From: Daniel Feiglin 
 Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:15 PM
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Intel compiler vs. gcc
 
 
 Aren't we missing something here: The $305.99 price tag.
 
 Oh, and let's not forget that dear old open source GCC can 
 function as a 
 full cross compiler which also costs. We're stuck with Intel for now, 
 but who knows what we'll be using in a few years from now? Anyone 
 remember DEC, DG, Interdata ...
 
 Ah me! Sic tranit gloria RMS.
 
 Daniel
 
 Michael Sternberg wrote:
  Somebody tried Intel C++ Compiler 7.0 for Linux ?
  
 http://www.programmersparadise.com/Product.pasp?txtCatalog=Par
adisetxtCategory=txtProductID=I23+0A12
 
 They claim 30% performance gain on gcc 3.2..
 
   Michael

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Problem with Pth or make or what?

[linux_il]

 -Original Message-
 From: Beni Cherniavsky 
 Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:02 PM
 Subject: Re: Problem with Pth or make or what?

 Aside from security, it can also confuse scripts when you run 
 them in a
 directory containing a program named the same as some system 
 program the
 script uses.

Rule #1 for script writing - never EVER relay on $PATH, better reset the
path
to a known value if you can and if you have the patience lookup individual
command full paths at the beginning. I think there are already tools and
standard script libraries to do that for you.

Of course you are going to jump and say that scripts can't guess the right
value for PATH, but that depends on the situation - if it's a global script
then usually
it should relay on globally available programs anyway. If it's something
local for
the group or something then even more so it can know which components
should
go in the path.  Even if you are writing the script for your own private use
I still
recommand that you set the PATH because you never know what's going to be in
it (e.g. scripts invoked via ssh and such or other situations where the
normal path
settings do not happen).

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Problem with Pth or make or what?

[linux_il]

 -Original Message-
 From: Beni Cherniavsky 
 Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 2:54 PM
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Problem with Pth or make or what?

 Good advice.  Indeed a quick grep of scripts in /usr/bin 
 shows most reset
 the path.  I was refering to my own ~/bin scripts and shell 
 aliases where
 I'm too lazy to do it.  Perhaps I'm wrong but PATH is 
 intended to avoid
 typing the full pathes, not to bring the need back.

You are right - but once you set the $PATH you can relay on it and use
relative program names.  Or what many (more robust) scripts do is to
lookup the individual programs and set a script variable for each one of
them
(e.g. $AWK = lookup(awk) then use $AWK everywhere in the script).

As for laziness - it might cause you a headache one day when your
environment
changes or you want to copy it over to somewhere else, better maintain it
now.

 On a second thought, having '.' in the *end* of the path is 
 almost safe.

I'd say it's pretty safe, but I still wouldn't put it in the root path.

 Not that I'd use it anyway, I'm typing dotslash automatically now :-).

Me too :). I just noticed that I don't have '.' in my path, I was sure I
have it
as I always had. Damn habits

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Ebay privacy policies

[linux_il]

Here is a free URL, this story is all over the net and I think I saw it
mentioned even in the printed Yediot

http://news.ep.walla.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=itempath=4id=351882

 -Original Message-
 From: Michael Sternberg 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:49 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Ebay privacy policies
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Ira Abramov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 
  http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?itemNo=265008
 
 Will it be too much to ask not to send URLs that require
 any kind of login (never mind that its free and takes only
 a minute to fill in all personal details) ? Or, at least,
 to send copy of this page attached, preferable html only ?
 
   Thanks, Michael.
 
 -- 
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Ebay privacy policies

[linux_il]

If anyone is interested, I opened account linuxil password linuxil.

Enjoy.

 -Original Message-
 From: Michael Sternberg 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:49 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Ebay privacy policies
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Ira Abramov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 
  http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArtPE.jhtml?itemNo=265008
 
 Will it be too much to ask not to send URLs that require
 any kind of login (never mind that its free and takes only
 a minute to fill in all personal details) ? Or, at least,
 to send copy of this page attached, preferable html only ?
 
   Thanks, Michael.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: debian mirror

[linux_il]

 On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:23:25AM +0200, Ely Levy wrote:
  Hey,
  How is debian mirroring going in israel?
 
 There was a discussion on debian-il. The short summary:
 1. ftp.tau.ac.il:/pub/OS/Debian mirrors most of Debian i386

Is this faster than the european sites you mention below?

 2. Debian has netselect, and even something like (I don't remember
 exactly) apt-netselect, which can select the fastest mirror for you.
 The fastest people found were .no. and .it., both more than 
 0.5Mbit ADSL.

That's probably the apt-spy I mention in my separate reply.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: debian mirror

[linux_il]

First - thanks for the effort, it's always a welcomed message to read.

There is a mirror at debian.org.il but I suspect it's connected through an
ADSL
line and not very fast even if I'm connected through the same ISP (Actcom).

I run apt-spy from time to time and it mostly finds hosts in Europe (italy,
belgium, france, germany). I can send you my current sources.list if you are
interested.

(It's a shame this utility can't average over multiple
runs because the results vary widely from one run to another).

I think it would be better if you could pull stuff directly from a main
mirror abroad:

1. If one of the Israeli mirrors goes down for some reason (e.g. disk full
as
happened a few weeks ago) then the other one can serve as a backup.
2. If you mirror a mirror then you are one step behind the rest
3. You might get better performance over the university's line abroad than
from the existing mirror.

Thanks,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Ely Levy 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:23 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: debian mirror
 
 
 Hey,
 How is debian mirroring going in israel?
 do we have a fast israeli host to mirror from
 suggestion on which outside coutry source is fast and reliable?
 cshuji is going to mirror woodie and maybe surge and sid if 
 we have space
 (all for i386)
 
 Ely Levy
 System group
 Hebrew University
 Jerusalem Israel
 
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

ReturnPath.net http://rd.mailshell.com/ad481
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: sim-0.8.1 glibc and misc [long]

[linux_il]

On my unstable debian box:

picton:~ dpkg -S crt1.o
libc6-dev: /usr/lib/gcrt1.o
libc6-dev: /usr/lib/crt1.o
libc6-dev: /usr/lib/Mcrt1.o

Do you have libc6-dev installed?

Well, it's already installed so dpkg -S is useful, but if you would go to
http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages and go to the Search the
contents of packages you could have found that too. (it's libc6-dev
for stable too).

As for the other compilation attempts - they are doomed because
you don't have a critical file for any compilation on your system (as far as
it
looks from the results of your test).

Hope this helps,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Eliran Gonen 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 5:15 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: sim-0.8.1 glibc and misc [long]
 
 
 [ quite LONG ]
 
 Hello IGLUs!
 
 I downloaded sim-0.8.1 source package (.tar.gz) and unpacked it.
 Then, moved into the new directory and typed as usual:
 
 $ ./configure --disable-kde   # --disable-kde 
 disable the use of the KDE libs as I have none
 
 ... Few seconds and I got this error message:
 
 checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
 checking for -p flag to install... yes
 checking whether build environment is sane... yes
 checking for gawk... no
 checking for mawk... mawk
 checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
 checking for style of include used by make... GNU
 checking for gcc... gcc
 checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C 
 compiler cannot create executables
 See `config.log' for more details.
 
 So I fired my editor and noticed this on the config.log file:
 
 
  config.log 
 configure:1773: checking for gawk
 configure:1802: result: no
 configure:1773: checking for mawk
 configure:1789: found /usr/bin/mawk
 configure:1799: result: mawk
 configure:1809: checking whether make sets $(MAKE)
 configure:1829: result: yes
 configure:2187: checking for style of include used by make
 configure:2215: result: GNU
 configure:2343: checking for gcc
 configure:2359: found /usr/bin/gcc
 configure:2369: result: gcc
 configure:2613: checking for C compiler version
 configure:2616: gcc --version /dev/null 5
 2.95.4
 configure:2619: $? = 0
 configure:2621: gcc -v /dev/null 5
 Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.4/specs
 gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)
 configure:2624: $? = 0
 configure:2626: gcc -V /dev/null 5
 gcc: argument to `-V' is missing
 configure:2629: $? = 1
 configure:2653: checking for C compiler default output
 configure:2656: gcc conftest.c  5
 /usr/bin/ld: cannot open crt1.o: No such file or directory
 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 configure:2659: $? = 1
 configure: failed program was:
 | #line 2632 configure
 | /* confdefs.h.  */
 |
 | #define PACKAGE_NAME 
 | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME 
 | #define PACKAGE_VERSION 
 | #define PACKAGE_STRING 
 | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT 
 | #define PACKAGE sim
 | #define VERSION 0.8.1
 | /* end confdefs.h.  */
 |
 | int
 | main ()
 | {
 |
 |   ;
 |   return 0;
 | }
 configure:2698: error: C compiler cannot create executables
 See `config.log' for more details.
 / config.log 
 
 After googling for:
 /usr/bin/ld: cannot open crt1.o: No such file or directory
 
 I saw the problem was that I have no glibc-devel!
 As root: $ apt-get install glibc || $ apt-get install glibc-devel
 returned nothing (well actually: No installation candidates).
 
 So I just went gnu.org and got the glibc source package.
 
 $ ./configure
 [..sniped..]
 checking version of gcc... 2.95.4, bad
 checking for gnumake... no
 checking for gmake... no
 checking for make... make
 checking version of make... 3.79.1, ok
 configure: error:
 *** These critical programs are missing or too old: gcc
 *** Check the INSTALL file for required versions.
 
 Then I tried compiling make:
 
 $ ./configure
 checking for C compiler default output... configure: error: C 
 compiler cannot create executables
 
 And then gcc-3.2.2:
 
 $ ./configure
 
 /usr/bin/ld: cannot open crt1.o: No such file or directory
 collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 *** The command 'gcc -o conftest -g -O2   conftest.c' failed.
 *** You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
 
 Again, the crt1/glibc-devel problem.
 
 I'm runing debian woody on an i686, kernel 2.4.18
 
 If you got that far, do you know how to solve this ?
 
 Thanks ALOT!
 -- 
   A HREF=http://www.rootshell.be/~eg;Eliran Gonen/A
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 

RE: Reply to list vs. no - suggeted solution to accomodate everyone

[linux_il]

I'm not familiar with previous instances of this discussion, I just know
I'm very annoyed from having to keep editing the to field every time I
reply to this list.

Why are there three addresses for this list?


 -Original Message-
 From: Shachar Shemesh 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:59 AM
 Subject: Reply to list vs. no - suggeted solution to 
 accomodate everyone
 
 
 Hi,
 
 It seems that there are two types of people on this list, with the 
 following motives (both I can understand).
 A. People who want the people who click reply to all to 
 send them two 
 messages when replying to them.
 B. People who only want to get each message once, regardless 
 of whether 
 they were in the discussion or not.
 
 Group B's motives are clear. Group A's motives, of which I am 
 a member, 
 usually stem from mailing list header based filtering. This 
 means that 
 messages sent through the list are filed into one folder, 
 while messages 
 sent to me directly arrive at my inbox. When you click reply 
 to all on 
 my messages, you are sending a message to my list's folder, 
 and also one 
 arriving at my inbox, signalling to me that this is a personal answer 
 which should be addressed on a different priority.
 
 I am not trying to open the list should add replyto discussion. Not 
 only has this discussion been answered with the same answer 
 repeatadly 
 each time Nadav raised it, but this is not technically 
 possible with a 
 list that has [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], all submitting to the same list (which 
 one will 
 you put in the reply to? if someone posted to another address, *the 
 list* will get two copies when clicking reply to all).
 
 We do see that the problem is that, when I click reply to 
 all, I don't 
 know whether to remove the CC to the recipent or not, unless 
 I happen to 
 know the recipent. I know that Muli wants my additional copy, and the 
 Ira doesn't. This is just coincidance.
 
 What I suggest is that those people who don't want to get 
 double replies 
 manually add the reply to upon sending the message. This solves all 
 problems:
 A. Each one decides for himself whether he gets two copies or one.
 B. Noone's decisions are forced upon anyone else.
 C. You know which address you are sending to, you know what to put in 
 the reply to field (i.e. - if you are sending to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], you will not put [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the 
 reply to).
 
 What do you think? Can we, please, put this discussion to 
 sleep once and 
 for all?
 
 -- 
 Shachar Shemesh
 Open Source integration consultant
 http://www.consumer.org.il/sun/
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Reply to list vs. no - suggeted solution to accomodate everyo ne

[linux_il]

 -Original Message-
 From: Ira Abramov
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 lshell.com
 ]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:14 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Reply to list vs. no - suggeted solution to accomodate
 everyo ne
 
 
 Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED], from the post of Tue, 18 Feb:
  I'm not familiar with previous instances of this 
 discussion, I just know
  I'm very annoyed from having to keep editing the to field 
 every time I
  reply to this list.
 
 so was I until I switched from pine to mutt :)

Currently I read it on Outlook at work (tried to forward back to home
but things got weared).

 
  
  Why are there three addresses for this list?
 
 historical reasons. the list was on huji since the dawn of time, we
 added a linux.org.il domain and server and when I offered to move the
 list to it there were lots of opinions for and against. part 
 were based
 on the iresponsivness of the list admin at huji (who was it 
 back then?)
 and part on the if it's not broken don't fix it ideal. the 
 outcome was
 that we set up an alias under linux.org.il so everyone is happy.
 
 then came a time for the server to move. YBA and I had a 
 communications
 problem, since the server changed IP and for 3 weeks the DNS didn't
 follow up, and so mail @linux.org.il bounced and there was much
 confusion (because people moved to use the list address there). I
 finally solved it by buying iglu.org.il, which I use in my mailings,
 which is also an alias to the huji address. YBA later 
 re-pointed the MX
 record and we ended up with the three faces of Eve. It is 
 interesting to
 note you are not the only one who gets confused, so does
 mailarchive.org, mail getting to the list from different posters is
 archived as three seperate lists over there which is the sillyest and
 oddest thing (and the list-of-all-lists page doesn't reflect 
 that, oddly
 enough).
 
 solutions:
 
 1. I drop all aliases from iglu.org.il and linux.org.il and all are
 forced to use huji
 
 2. I get the list of subscribers from Ely Levy, we set it up 
 on the iglu
 server, we can proudly say the list finally runs on a 
 Gnu/Linux server,
 and we'll have digests to save people reading all this junk in small
 packets :)
 
 3. situation stays as it is, because nothing is really broken :)

I'd vote for (2), though I like the linux.org.il domain better.

So people (I think including myself, not even sure where I'm subscribed
through) will have to update their address book once, not such a big
hassle.

This spaghetti should better be stopped before it gets worse.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Guessing filesystem while unmounted

[linux_il]

 On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 01:41:01PM +0200, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Why can't people learn to use procmail? it's annoying!
  
  Because part of supporting open standards is that you don't 
 have to use
  specific software in order to enjoy a forum properly. I 
 can't use procmail
  because right now I read the list on Outlook (that's what 
 we have at work),
  which gives me enough filtering.
 
 You need to go back and read what you've said. Really, do it. 

Have you seen me ask why cant people use Outlook anywere?

From your previous reply it sounded like the list is designed only for
people
who can use Procmail.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Reply to list vs. no - suggeted solution to accomodate everyo ne

[linux_il]

 Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED], from the post of Tue, 18 Feb:
   
   so was I until I switched from pine to mutt :)
  
  Currently I read it on Outlook at work (tried to forward 
 back to home
  but things got weared).
 
 why not subscribe your home address instead?

It's a long (technical) story.  I am muling over the option but
I'd rather try to avoid that (mainly due to spam).

 the linux.org.il is not under our control, and has been known to have
 blackouts in the past. the domain owner seems to sometime respond,

I figured out hat there are problems with the linux.org.il domain,

I have nothing against iglu, it's just that linux.org.il sounds
cleaner, that's all.

  This spaghetti should better be stopped before it gets worse.
 
 well, it's been going on for 6 years since the linux.org.il domain was
 bought. so far not so bad. doesn't seem broken. should we 
 really fix it?

What about all the confusion of the aliases and split list archives
etc...?

(I'm counting on these archives to find the fine technical answers
posted here).

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: ADSL modem

[linux_il]

Would that router provide firewall capabilities?

I love the flexibility of having my Linux box as a firewall
(and it costs less than your quoted price (ADSL ethernet modem cost
me 240NIS, ethernet cards borrowed but would cost another 140 NIS
for two cards)).

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Dekel Tsur 
 Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:47 AM
 Subject: Re: ADSL modem
 
 
 If you plan connecting more than one computer, you should 
 consider buying
 a combined modem+router+switch, which can be bought for about 500 NIS.
 

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: ADSL modem

[linux_il]

As far as I can tell Linux supports practically any card
you'll find in the market.

What I would do if I were you is:

1. see what your favourite store offers, make double-sure
they give you the right model number (make it clear to them that
if it doesn't work with your PC then you'll give it back for money)

2. check the net for Hardware-HOWTO (is this the most up to date
document to check?) and the sources of your current kernel for
support to this card.

It would be interesting to hear what you come up with (models and prices).
I might be in the market for a multi-port card soon if you see anything
like this.

Good luck.

 -Original Message-
 From: Eli Segal 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 12:11 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Linux-IL
 Subject: Re: ADSL modem
 
 
 do I need a specific firm for ethernet card ??
 or shoud what they sell on most stores will do ??
 
 for now I just want to connect to ADSL
 
 
 thanx 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 12:02 PM
 Subject: RE: ADSL modem
 
 
  Would that router provide firewall capabilities?
  
  I love the flexibility of having my Linux box as a firewall
  (and it costs less than your quoted price (ADSL ethernet modem cost
  me 240NIS, ethernet cards borrowed but would cost another 140 NIS
  for two cards)).
  
  --Amos
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Dekel Tsur 
   Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:47 AM
   Subject: Re: ADSL modem
   
   
   If you plan connecting more than one computer, you should 
   consider buying
   a combined modem+router+switch, which can be bought for 
 about 500 NIS.
   
  
  =
  To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
  the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
  echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Collection of sample high-quality iptables configurations?

[linux_il]

Here is something which should fit your needs (except maybe that I use a
fixed IP address).

Hope this helps.

BTW - once you setup the configuration you can save/restore it in the boot
scripts with iptables-save and iptables-restore.

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Omer Zak 
 Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 1:09 PM
 Subject: Collection of sample high-quality iptables configurations?
 
 
 Once upon a time I configured a 2.2.x Linux firewall with 
 ipchains, and
 used a script with which I was happy, as it opened only 
 certain ports, had
 anti-spoofing protection, etc.
 More recently I configured a 2.4.x Linux firewall with 
 iptables.  However
 I am not happy with the iptables configuration used there.
 
 Does anyone know about a collection of recommended iptables 
 scripts for
 the following environments:
 1. Single Linux PC at home (no need to export services like WWW to the
Internet).
 2. Home or small office network (NAT, any PC can access the Internet,
nothing is exported to the world).
 
 Note:  for more complicated setups (such as office Web server to be
 accessible from the Internet), I'd not rely upon cookbook 
 scripts but have
 someone who really knows the stuff (possibly me) set it up for me.
 But for the average home/small office user, a restrictive cookbook
 approach is the best approach, for if he has to figure things out by
 himself he may make mistakes; and if he hires a security 
 expert, this may
 be expensive and he may be let down by an improperly 
 qualified expert.
  --- Omer


#!/bin/sh

## Insert connection-tracking modules (not needed if built into kernel).
insmod ip_conntrack
insmod ip_conntrack_ftp

## Create chain which blocks new connections, except if coming from inside.
iptables --new-chain block

# allow established connections, or related packets
iptables --append block --match state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED --jump ACCEPT

# DROP all other packets (be stealth, right?)
iptables --append block --jump DROP

## Jump to that chain from INPUT and FORWARD chains.
iptables --append INPUT --jump block
iptables --append FORWARD --jump block

# Masquerade out ppp0 (we have a known IP address from Actcom, so use SNAT)
iptables --table nat --append POSTROUTING --out-interface ppp0 --jump SNAT --to-source 
192.117.105.145

# Disallow NEW and INVALID incoming or forwarded packets from ppp0.
iptables --append INPUT --in-interface ppp0 --match state --state NEW,INVALID --jump 
DROP
iptables --append FORWARD --in-interface ppp0 --match state --state NEW,INVALID --jump 
DROP

# default policy of INPUT and FORWARD is to DROP everything which didn't match
iptables --policy INPUT DROP
iptables --policy FORWARD DROP

RE: xkb handling in upcoming 4.3.0

[linux_il]

 -Original Message-
 From: Shachar Shemesh 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:07 AM
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: xkb handling in upcoming 4.3.0
 
 
 Well, I beg to differ.

I suspect the bottom line is the same result, only it sounds like you
know this stuff.

 
 I'm not sure what 4.3.0 did, but the correct behaviour should be that 
 shift-9 produces open brackets in left to right languages, 
 and close 
 brackets on right to left languages. shift-0 should produce 
 the other one.

I suppose that's a more technically correct way to describe the result
I want.  So it sounds like so far we actually agree.

 
 As far as the engravings go, it is up to the display engine 
 to display 
 open brackets as left brackets in LTR context, and right 
 brackets in RTL 

Ah - that might be the key to our little disagreement - the keyboard
is supposed to reverse it once and then the display is supposed to reverse
things again.  As long as the end result is:
1. I press Shift-9 to get a left brace etc...
2. The generated document contains that correct character.
3. The final display is correct (e.g. in some sites I saw braces which
   kept switching on every edit).

then I'd be glad with it, and even more so happier to know we conform
to a standard.

 context. We can see, then, that we need cooperation of the keyboard 
 layout and the display engine in order to get a consistant 
 and pleasant 
 experience.
 
 The situation thus far was not very good in X, but was tolerable. 
 Shift-0 in RTL context produced the wrong key (i.e. - close bracket 
 instead of open bracket), but this was compensated by the 
 fact that the 
 display engine did not know it was supposed to reverse them. This is 
 called, in Technical jargon Visual Hebrew. I think I don't need to 

Again (if I understand this) - you mean that the new way is simply to teach
both the keyboad and the display that they are supposed to reverse, right?

I can't check your suggested test right now (no desktop Linux at work :-(),
it sounds like we agree on the wanted end user experience and that you know
what you are talking, so I am relaxed about this now.

Cheers,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Please reply to me direct (was: Re: backup utility)

[linux_il]

 I don't mind questions from offlist people, but questions about
 proprietery products with no intereset for the Free Software community
 (nor even, sigh, for OpenSource people), should be filtered out.

Not to defend the practice of asking a question without being
on the list, but what about the bigger goal of helping a linux
win?

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Please reply to me direct (was: Re: backup utility)

[linux_il]

  Not to defend the practice of asking a question without being on the
  list, but what about the bigger goal of helping a linux win?
 
 I see that as a moot issue. Linux has already won. what I 

Ever heard of be paranoid?

I wouldn't say that Linux has won any time soon, there is a lot more
market to gain and threats to answer even just to preserve what is
already linux territory (what's linux territory? Movie studios?).
(e.g. NZ Post just decided to move from OS/2 to Windows after
considering Linux for a few months - I wonder if the Linux vendors
there could do more to win this deal).

As for this being off topic - isn't a question about commercial software
on top of Linux of interest for this group or its participants? Go figure
if one day you might have a project or a job at that customer because
linux won there. What would you brag about in Linux in Government
conferences if not about how many businesses succeed on Linux?

Everything is connected

--Amos


=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: What is missing before we have out-of-the-box Linux Hebrew experience in RedHat 8.0/Gnome desktop?

[linux_il]

Interesting read (though I'm a Debian user).

I tried to restart xft (the X Font Server), and after it 
 was restarted,
several font-using applications (emacs, AbiWord, gedit, 
 etc.) failed
at startup due to failure to find fonts.
A full reboot of the machine fixed this problem.

What about a full restart (CTRL-Backspace) of the X server?
What about logout/login?

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: What is missing before we have out-of-the-box Linux Hebrew ex perience in RedHat 8.0/Gnome desktop?

[linux_il]

 On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Interesting read (though I'm a Debian user).
 
 What complementary actions does one need to do to get full Hebrew in a
 modern Debian installation?

I'd love to answer that, but I always was hazy about
hebrew/character-sets/keyboard
bindings and so forth. And in addition I only recently returned to the Linux
scene so
I'm not even sure what's the situation on my machine right now (I use the
default
Gnome installation of unstable with GDM, choose default at login, and
added the
instructions posted here last week to enable switching hebrew/english with
both shift keys).

  What about logout/login?
 
 Tried this before doing full reboot, didn't work for me.

logout/login doesn't work for me either when I tried it (for other things),
I think it doesn't causes a restart of the server, which sounds like what
is required.

Cheers,

--Amos
What do you do when linux crashes?
Sit in the dark and wait for the power to come back.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: xkb handling in upcoming 4.3.0

[linux_il]

I'd like to concur with that!

I though that I missed the line of this discussion because some positions
sounded
so wierd (mainly stuff like Shift-9 opening braces all the time).  Not until
this
reversing began with KDE have I ever had problems with braces in any
language
I used on computers and now I keep having to press keys and see what
happens
when I type hebrew in Linux, this is completly rediculous!

So please stop this instanity while you can.

Thanks.

  Please remember that shift9 means open braces, and shift0 
 means close them.
  How they are represented on screen is another thing.
 
 No! shift-9 contains engraving (on the plastic) of *left parenthesis*
 Under your interpretation it would produce a right parenthesis in
 hebrew. This is completely insane!

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: root fs mount options

[linux_il]

Zombies are walking dead - don't worry about them too much except that
it would be nice to get rid of them.
I wonder if maybe one of them is a child of the other and there are supposed
to be two processes?

 -Original Message-
 From: Michael Sternberg 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 9:01 AM
 Subject: RE: root fs mount options
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Michael Sternberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 
  How can I tell kernel what mount options to use when mount 
 root fs (/) ?
  I have in kernel command line root=/dev/mtdblock0 rw and 
 want to use
  mount option noatime for faster access.
 
 Hello
 I hate to answer my own question but the possible solution 
 can be adding
 
 /dev/mtdblock0 / jffs2 noatime,remount 0 0
 
 to /etc/fstab.
 The problem with above is that two instances og JFFS2 garbage
 collectors starts running. `ps` reports:
 
 8 rootZ N [jffs2_gcd_mtd0]
20 rootSWN [jffs2_gcd_mtd0]
 
 
 And I can not kill the first zomby process even with SIGKILL.
 Any JFFS2 experts around here ?
 Of course if I could transfer to kernel noatime in command line
 this problem would not arise..
 
   Thanks, Michael.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: OT: PROG question: regarding returning errors in libraries

[linux_il]

 From: Oleg Goldshmidt
 I dislike errno-like global error codes - they are too easy to
 overwrite and too easy to forget to check thoroughly (since they exist
 sorta independently from the functions).
 
 I much prefer returning an error/success code from functions. Among
 other things, I consider it useful that it strongly encourages, if not
 strictly enforces, actually checking the bloody code after you call
 the function.

Nope.  I've seen tons of code where function return codes were not
checked and then people just don't understand why things don't work
(typical undeveloper phenomena - they keep assuming things just work,
funny busterds :).

Exceptions are the best way to force handling of errors. They can
also convery lots of useful data (full objects) as well as use error
hierarchy (e.g. a file-related exception type from which a file open
failed because the path contained an unreadable component exception
can be created).

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: ip over usb

[linux_il]

Just typed ip over usb in google and found some links about Ethernet
over USB, might be good enough for you?

BTW - it seems that most interest is drown around Zaurus PDA's, if that's
the case for you then the first link from the search sounds useful:

How to set up an Ethernet over USB connection between the Sharp Zaurus
SL-5000D/SL-5500 and a Linux machine

http://www.ruault.com/Zaurus/ethernet-over-usb-howto.html

Hope this helps.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 hi
 
 I am looking for a standard way of sending ip ( or ethernet ) 
 over usb.
 
 is there a standards for this ? if so, send me a link

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: ADSL/Cable in Israel

[linux_il]

I already have an ADSL Alcatel HomeConnect(?) modem I bought from Bezeq
working fine with PPTP.  Is there ANY reason for me to consider bothering
with PPPoE (except that it sounds like it's more standard).  Is it more
relayable
or anything like that?

Thanks for putting up that document.

Cheers,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Doron Shikmoni 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 2:15 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: ADSL/Cable in Israel
 
 
 
 
 Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote:
 
 3. There is no ISP in Israel that supports PPPoE connections (for 
 appliances like routers,etc..)
   
 
 ISP support for PPPoE is not needed. In fact, as Doron 
 Shikmoni pointed
 out on this list in the past you can even set the Bezeq 
 supplied Alcatel
 modems to workj in PPPoE mode quite easily if you're willing to 
 fiddle with the ADSL modem's setting via it's web interface.
 
 
 
 All ISP's in Israel supports PPPoE. Fact is, it's not 
 related to them so 
 much - it's more related to Bezeq, which now officially 
 supports PPPoE with 
 their Samsung external modems (as well as hacked Alcatel 
 modems - but you're 
 on your own now).
 
 
 Just a slight correction to the above statement: In the ADSL realm,
 as Gilad correctly noted, the ISPs do not need to support PPPoE -
 and neither does Bezeq. They both don't get to see the PPPoE
 (or PPTP for that matter). If your modem can bridge PPPoE into
 the ATM cloud, then you can happily do PPPoE. The Alcatel unit does
 not need to be hacked to do it - you just need to conifgure it 
 differently
 from its default setting (see URL below for instructions). The Samsung
 units are supplied this way by default (in fact, they just 
 don't support 
 PPTP
 relay into PPPoA). I tend to believe the same is doable even with the 
 Orckit
 units - I haven't tried it though.
 
 Short form of the above: in ADSL, you can do PPPoE, provided your
 modem can do the bridging.
 
 Instructions for configuring the Alcatel unit for PPPoE:
 http://www.isoc.org.il/~doron/PPPoE.html
 
 Good luck,
 Doron
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: ADSL/Cable in Israel

[linux_il]

I wonder which ethernet ADSL modem you got (prompted by the statement
that Bezeq stopped supporting Alcatel modems, which is what I have).

 From: Omer Zak 

 Recently I got an ADSL connection.  I made sure I get a 
 non-USB ADSL modem
 by declaring in the application form that my PC does not have USB
 connection, and that it has a NIC.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: pppd persist?

[linux_il]

aha! now I did the connection between this and why I one of the repliers
(thank you all!) stressed about being careful not to disconnect when not
necessary.

But I'm connected via actcom and have a permanent IP address so this is
much less critical for me.

Cheers,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: mnna4 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:55 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: pppd persist?
 
 
 I'm not sure if it's relevant, but in the last 10 days, my IP keeps
 changing. I'm using an update client for dyndns and from it's
 logfile I see that the address changes 2-3 times a day while 
 it used to be
 stable for weeks.
 My modem is Alcatel (pro) with autodial. (Obviously using 
 it's own routing
 s/w).
 It doesn't affect my internet usage. Just letting you know.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Ilya Konstantinov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 11:07 PM
 Subject: Re: pppd persist?
 
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi,
  
  I keep seeing people talk about pinging the other side of their
  ADSL line in order to discover whether it's still up and re-run
  pppd if ping fails.
  
  Have anyone of them tried pppd's persist option and decided that
  it's not good enough?
  
  Except for cases when pppd crashes (which I didn't see happening
  lately), it looks like a fine idea. Just make sure it's not 'pptp'
  running 'pppd' - but instead  'pppd' running 'pptp' (via 
 pppd's pty
  option - see pptp --help for an example).
  (Ignore this if you're using a PPP over Ethernet configuration.)
 
 
 
  =
  To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
  the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
  echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

Wouldn't you rather have amos.shapira.com as your personal domain?
http://rd.mailshell.com/ad465
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: still need help with USB printer

[linux_il]

At least on Debian we have lsusb(8) which comes in the usbutils package.

hope this helps.

 -Original Message-
 From: shlomo solomon 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 6:30 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: still need help with USB printer
 
 
 I've wasted hours GOOGLEing since I last wrote about this 
 problem. The 
 wierdest thing is that the error message seems to be random. 
 Below are the 
 error messages I got only a minute apart. The first one says 
 that the device 
 is busy and a minute later that the device doesn't exist. 
 Needless to say, I 
 made no changes between the two tests.
 
 One thing that someone suggested on one of the forums I 
 looked on was to turn 
 the printer on and off a few times - but that didn't help. 
 And as I already 
 wrote before, in Mandrake 8.1 the printer works. Can anyone 
 suggest what may 
 have changed in the Mandrake 9.0 USB support?
 
 BTW - I still haven't found any sort of utlity to **look at** 
 the USB bus. 
 Maybe I could find something that way. Any suggestions - PLEASE !!!
 
 Here are the error messages:
 
 
 [root@shlomo1 root]# echo jhjgfhgfhgf jhjhgjhg  /dev/usb/lp0
 bash: /dev/usb/lp0: Device or resource busy
 
 [root@shlomo1 root]# echo jhjgfhgfhgf jhjhgjhg  /dev/usb/lp0
 bash: /dev/usb/lp0: No such device
 
 -- 
 Shlomo Solomon
 http://come.to/shlomo.solomon
 Sent by KMail (KDE 3.0.3) on LINUX Mandrake 9.0
 
 
 
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: still need help with USB printer

[linux_il]

My lsusb gives all the details it can find, which is a lot:

Bus 001 Device 001: ID : Virtual Hub
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   1.00
  bDeviceClass9 Hub
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize0 8
  idVendor   0x Virtual
  idProduct  0x Hub
  bcdDevice0.00
  iManufacturer   0 
  iProduct2 USB UHCI Root Hub
  iSerial 1 1020
  bNumConfigurations  1
  Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength   25
bNumInterfaces  1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration  0
bmAttributes 0x40
  Self Powered
MaxPower0mA
Interface Descriptor:
  bLength 9
  bDescriptorType 4
  bInterfaceNumber0
  bAlternateSetting   0
  bNumEndpoints   1
  bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
  bInterfaceSubClass  0 
  bInterfaceProtocol  0 
  iInterface  0 
  Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81  EP 1 IN
bmAttributes3
  Transfer TypeInterrupt
  Synch Type   none
wMaxPacketSize  8
bInterval 255
  Language IDs: (length=4)
  (null)((null))

Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0451:2046 Texas Instruments 
  Language IDs: none (invalid length string descriptor bf; len=0)
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   1.10
  bDeviceClass9 Hub
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize0 8
  idVendor   0x0451 Texas Instruments
  idProduct  0x2046 
  bcdDevice1.25
  iManufacturer   0 
  iProduct0 
  iSerial 0 
  bNumConfigurations  1
  Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength   25
bNumInterfaces  1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration  0
bmAttributes 0xe0
  Self Powered
  Remote Wakeup
MaxPower0mA
Interface Descriptor:
  bLength 9
  bDescriptorType 4
  bInterfaceNumber0
  bAlternateSetting   0
  bNumEndpoints   1
  bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
  bInterfaceSubClass  0 
  bInterfaceProtocol  0 
  iInterface  0 
  Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81  EP 1 IN
bmAttributes3
  Transfer TypeInterrupt
  Synch Type   none
wMaxPacketSize  1
bInterval 255
  Language IDs: none (invalid length string descriptor bf; len=0)

(and that's with nothing connected but a hub on my screen).

What's your lsusb version? Maybe you can take a look at debian.org and see
where they got that lsusb from (and just download the source from there).

 -Original Message-
 From: shlomo solomon 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 10:32 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: still need help with USB printer
 
 
 On Wednesday 01 January 2003 19:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  At least on Debian we have lsusb(8) which comes in the 
 usbutils package.
 
 It's installed on Mandrake too, and that was one of the first 
 things I 
 checked. But that's not what I meant. All it tells me is that 
 my USB devices 
 (including the printer) are properly identified:
 
 [root@shlomo1 root]# lsusb
 Bus 001 Device 001: ID :
 Bus 001 Device 006: ID 04cc:1122 Philips Semiconductors Hub
 Bus 001 Device 008: ID 04b8:0005 Seiko Epson Corp. Stylus Printer
 Bus 001 Device 003: ID 055f:0006 Mustek Systems Inc. 
 ScanExpress 1200 UB
 
 In fact, I prefer usbview which, aside from the GUI, also 
 gives alot more 
 information. But neither lsusb or usbview one can help me 
 **sniff** around 
 and see what's going wrong.
 
 -- 
 Shlomo Solomon
 http://come.to/shlomo.solomon
 Sent by KMail (KDE 3.0.3) on LINUX Mandrake 9.0
 
 
 
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

Well, we are drifting into the web and user interface design territory, but
the point I made can be concluded from other points in the original list -
pop-ups,
annoying graphics, heavy load, relliance on particular browser version (even
particular IE versions) all will drive away potential customers.

 -Original Message-
 From: Oleg Goldshmidt 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:16 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  I think you missed the main point:
  
  5. Bottom line - drives away potential business (customers, 
 partners) and
  misses the whole point of having a web site.
 
 This they won't agree with, on the basis of 98% of customers use IE
 so the extra expense is not warranted.
 
 The real point is
 
 5. Bottom line: it costs much more to create and *maintain* a site
with advanced IE features.
 
 -- 
 Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

Yes, that's the spirit of my message.

Thanks.

 -Original Message-
 From: Shlomi Fish 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ilshell.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:51 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
 
 
 On 31 Dec 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   I think you missed the main point:
  
   5. Bottom line - drives away potential business 
 (customers, partners) and
   misses the whole point of having a web site.
 
  This they won't agree with, on the basis of 98% of customers use IE
  so the extra expense is not warranted.
 
  The real point is
 
  5. Bottom line: it costs much more to create and *maintain* a site
   with advanced IE features.
 
 
 Another point is that users would like more minimalistic and
 standards-compliant sites better than sites with a lot of
 bandwidth-overloading, DHTML/JS, useless bells and whistells madness.
 Making your site basic and portable will eventually make it much more
 popular, even among MSIE users.
 
 Regards,
 
   Shlomi Fish
 
  --
  Oleg Goldshmidt | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  =
  To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
  the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
  echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
 --
 Shlomi Fish[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
 Home E-mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups...
 Wait a second - is n a natural number?
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

ReturnPath.net http://rd.mailshell.com/ad481
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

 From: Oron Peled 

 On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 08:41:55 +0200
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I think you missed the main point:
  
  5. Bottom line - drives away potential business (customers, 
 partners) and
  misses the whole point of having a web site.
 
 Very good, but now we should think of means to substantiate this
 claim. Otherwise it would be dismissed with the usual 95% is IE

No. That's my point - having pop-ups and large downloads on every page
drives away also IE users because the site is not useable to them too.
That's why they should stop believing that all these gizmo's help their
business.

 arguments. What I was thinking was how can we show they loose
 business in general (not just Linux) -- therefore I emphasized
 the public image.

See my reply above.

 Another linked issue. How can we address complaints to *correct*
 authority in the organization (I think marketing dept. should
 be our focus). What we need is e-mail addresseses so we can
 (politely and rationaly) complain to, thus conveying the message:
It's better be standard compliant then to deal with bad
 publicity from tech savy people about the quality of your
 web site.
 
 Of course every complaint should be accompanied with the known
 facts about lowering maintenance costs etc so they won't be
 pushed right away from the table due to no money excuses.

And in what position would you be talking to them?
If I were them, I think I'd just suspect you are trying to sell me your
services as a portable HTML hack.

Cheers,

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

Here here to that!

Education can be found the source of many solutions.  Maybe aproaching
such schools and offering them help with setting up Linux-based classes
will be beneficial to both parties - the schools get lower cost of ownership
(should probably be shown very good return on investment (ROI) in order to
interst them) and can brag about teaching people more useful stuff, and we
Linux crowd get:
1. More people who are aware of portability issues.
2. More potential Linux users.
3. More potential Linux advocates.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 There is a lot of truth in this. Web Designer and Web 
 Master courses in
 Israel are normally entirely Microsoft-oriented. My sister 
 took one at John
 Bryce. When she mentioned the word Netscape there people 
 sneered. They learn
 HTML, JScript (Ahem), VBScript, IIS, ASP, and so on.
 
 This would explain the relatively low adoption of 
 Linux/Apaache/{PHP,Perl} in
 Israeli web sites. All those web designers require a working 
 MS machine to even
 get their bearings.
 
 Maybe our take should be in the tech schools (John Bryce, 
 Sela, Interbit,
 High-Tech, whatever), pointing out Linux advantages, low 
 license fees, and what
 this means at a time when few companies can afford those 
 $1000 to send over
 employees. The result - more people who will be trained in 
 using free software
 go on the market.
 
 Herouth

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

This remoinds me - I'm reading now The Complete DHTML refference
(or something like that) from O'Reilly (don't sniger - this book
is all about portability) and was wondering how feasable would it
be to stick an IE compatibility module in Mozilla?  Has anyone
though of that?  I don't know Mozilla's internal workings.

 -Original Message-
 From: Ira Abramov
 
 for Visa Leumi it was easy. they told me the web interface will simply
 not be available to me and I should stick to other options (phone) or
 use the bank's interface to see future charges in thw queue. all this
 was fine until (now I read) leumi changed the interface as well.
 
 Explonter over CrossOver, anyone? :)

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

pppd persist?

[linux_il]

Hi,

I keep seeing people talk about pinging the other side of their
ADSL line in order to discover whether it's still up and re-run
pppd if ping fails.

Have anyone of them tried pppd's persist option and decided that
it's not good enough?

I just put it on (with maxfail 0 so it will retry forever) and it
seems to work, but I'd like to learn from other people's experience
if there is any hidden snag waiting for me down the road.

Thanks,

--Amos

Of course Australia was marked for glory, for its people
had been chosen by the finest judges in England -- Anonymous

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

Maybe such a fight should be done under the title of web standards rather
than open source vs. microsoft. I think there are already bodies which
promote
web standards adoption (forgot their details). Does anyone know if they have
reps in Israel?

 -Original Message-
 From: Shoshannah Forbes 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 4:44 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Uri Bruck; Linux-IL
 Subject: Re: OT: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
 
 
 
 On Thursday, Dec 26, 2002, at 19:43 Asia/Jerusalem, Oleg Kobets wrote:
 
  Awarness:
  Mostly companies are not aware that there is such thing as 
 Linux and 
  so they
  never tell the people who actually build the site that it should 
  support
  non-IE browsers.
 
 It is not just linux users who face this problem: I use Mac 
 as well as 
 linux, and we have the same problem (see a few threads on this exact 
 subject in the mac forum: http://forums.ort.org.il/mac ). not to 
 mentioned windows users who do not use IE (yes, there are people like 
 that).
 
 Too bad that every little segment has been fighting 
 separately on this 
 issue- we should join forces and work together- then we will probably 
 get better results.
 
 --
 The News, Uncensored http://www.tellinglies.org/news/
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client

[linux_il]

I think you missed the main point:

5. Bottom line - drives away potential business (customers, partners) and
misses
the whole point of having a web site.

 -Original Message-
 From: Oron Peled 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 9:24 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Mila Tova on Bank Leumi site and linux/mozilla client
 
 
 On Mon, 30 Dec 2002 17:43:40 +0200
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Well, working as a web programmer for a long time now, you 
 can't imagine how
  childish bosses are.
 
 Good point. So it's the same struggle we see everywhere in 
 the software field
 about PHB's and Marketoids forcing non-professional decisions 
 on their techies.
 
 So we should really fight this battle not only on a practical basis
 (these sites are problematic for us), but also on ideological basis
 (this web software sucks and contains proprietary code -- we 
 think it's
 bad for everybody).
 
 Of course the many practical arguments raised so far will 
 help demonstrate
 the problem. So let's try to compose a partial list:
   1. Maintenance hell for upgrades
   2. Should retest for many versions of proprietary products
  (e.g: Flash versions)
   3. Non-professional image in the eyes of tech-people (no 
 standards compliance,
  no thorough testing) may inflict on the name of the company.
   4. Small but important market (non-Windows, many tech-people)
  may be lost.
 
 Since PHB's couldn't care less for [1,2,4] I think maybe item 3
 should be stressed. Maybe instead of calling a company webmaster
 about your page doesn't work with Linux/Mozilla/Whatever we 
 should call
 the marketing department with Whoever designed your web pages haven't
 done a professional job. It may deteriorates your public image without
 you knowing about it... We will be happy to give technical details to
 your relevant representatives.
 
 What do you think? Is this approach too aggressive? (reaching the
 web design team from above).
 
 
 Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron
 
 He who sacrifices functionality for ease of use
 Loses both and deserves neither
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il

[linux_il]

 -Original Message-
 From: Gilad Ben-Yossef 

 The people you mention are active in the TelAviv Linux group (in fact,
 they practivly founded it) that holds bi weekly meeting and 
 activities. 

How can I get in touch with this group (the Tel-Aviv Linux Group)?

Can't find their e-mails or other contact details on the net.

--Amos

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: counting emails and pine questions

[linux_il]

It's a standard trick :-)

Messages in these files are separated by From  lines (notice the space).
Why do you use less?  You can supply the file name to grep:

egrep -c '^From ' /var/spool/mail/USERNAME

I'm not familiar with pine.  Have you checked it's docs?  It sounds like
a trivial question.

Cheers,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Ishai Parasol
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 10:26 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: counting emails and pine questions
 
 
 Hi
 
 I'm looking for a way to know (using the command line) the 
 number of emails
 that a /var/spool/mail/USERNAME file contains. Right now I'm 
 using less
 /var/spool/mail/USERNAME | grep -c Subject:  , but it's not 
 accurate enough
 (cases of forwarded mails etc.). Any better ideas ?
 
 Another question. Is it possible to run pine with another 
 user email file
 (/var/spool/mail/USER) ?  for example, I'm logged as root and 
 want to read
 USER2 emails (ofcourse, USER2 can't login, he's only a mail 
 account and not
 a full user). If it's impossible with pine, is there a 
 client (not for X)
 that can do it ?
 
 Thanks,
 Ishai.
 
 
 
 =
 To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
 the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
 echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 -- Your email is protected by Mailshell -- 
 As you requested, this email was forwarded to you by Mailshell.
 Mailshell will forward your replies to this email and keep your
 private email address safe.
 
 To unsubscribe safely and easily using Mailshell or to stop 
 forwarding:
 http://www.mailshell.com/control.html?a=blshp8bbumg87yq1j9157q
v2pz6_58z35eg0

FreshAddress.com http://rd.mailshell.com/ad482
Earn up to $3 for each of your friends who signs up with Mailshell!
http://rd.mailshell.com/sp5

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Takanon in transparent format [Was: Re: Hamakor website]

[linux_il]

Just a minor correction taken as an excuse to educate people about such
organizations - (or I am going to be corrected) - the body in
charge of the Takanon, and which is the top body in an Amuta in general,
is the assembly (i.e. all voting members of the Amuta).  The Vaad is just
the administrational body which executes the decisions of the assembly.

I think you can compare this to democracies (in proper countries, not in
banana.il) - where the government is the Vaad which executes the policies
decided by the people in elections and referendums.

Cheers,

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Ehud Karni 
 
 The real advantage is that she can submit the change as a patch/diff,
 so if the central manager (the Vaad) decides to accept this change it
 is easy to implement.
 
 Ehud.

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il

[linux_il]

I appreciate the point about Hamakor aiming the entire open source area.

Having a Penguin on the home page might promote the confusion with which
a first-time visitor to the site already has about open source vs. linux
vs. apache
vs. GNU etc.

Maybe a mix of logos is in order, or even a dominant GNU logo can be
regarded
as a representative of the movement?

--Amos

 -Original Message-
 From: Gabor Szabo 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 12:04 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Hamakor website - http://www.hamakor.org.il
 
 
 Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote:
  On Fri, Dec 27, 2002 at 10:12:13AM +0200, Hetz Ben-Hamo wrote:
  
 Is Hamakor is talking about Open Source or Linux? if Open 
 Source, then why 
 do you have the Tux logo? 
  
  
  The amuta, as mentioned in the FAQ, is about free software and open
  source. As it happens, the most visible single project in 
 that field
  is GNU/Linux, so the Amuta obviously pays a lot of attention to
  GNU/Linux and its users. Of course, if anyone wants to 
 organize a BSD
  conference, we are all for it as well. 
 
 We like camels too.
 I'd appreciate one (maybe stepping on a snake ? ;-) on HaMakor.org.il

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Questions to RMS (was: Re: RMS, T'so and the LUG)

[linux_il]

Unless he's willing to swim here, if you believe the newspapers and
remember the previous war, commercial flights will cease in case some
objects start flying in unauthorized vertical paths.

:-)

Practical suggestion - let's just plan as if everything is going to be
ok and at worst the plans will get cancelled.

 On Monday 23 December 2002 10:49, Dvir Volk wrote:
   the RMS visit is getting closer and closer.
 
 RMS does not strike me as the kind of guy that will postpone 
 a visit over 
 something silly like a little war... did you read this guy's 
 political 
 doc's??
 
 :)

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: IBM Workshop with RMS and T'so in Tel-Aviv and Haifa

[linux_il]

OK, let's start a religious war:

VI sucks.

(Just kidding :-)

 -Original Message-
 From: Uri Bruck 

 If you gonna start a religious war, might as well have 
 religion somewhere 
 in it... :)

=
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with
the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command
echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]