Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Quoting Steve G., from the post of Fri, 04 Oct: So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. I have yet to see a cheap hardware off-the-shelf NAS that can beat a PC in performance or flexibility. I would get three WD Red disks and build a Linux machine around them, doesn't have to be too powerful. Don't stick old drives in there, you want reliability. use RAID5 in software, dm-crypt if you want some privacy, Samba, NFS and OwnClouׁ• like people already suggested, and a very logical directory tree so you can find everything easily. Also - backup backup baskup. there are cheap cloud services where you can have unlimited storagef for $20-$#0 a year, the better ones support rsync. don't be too cheap, you want your data alive. Especially unique stuff like family photos that can't be recovered from a torrent site... -- Built by 100 monkeys with 100 typewriters Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Using a PC as a server has several drawbacks: 1. Size 2. Power consumption A typical ARM based NAS will usually beat a PC in both categories. BTW, for backing up pictures, if you don't use the RAW file format, you can use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want). Udi On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Ira Abramov lists-linux...@ira.abramov.org wrote: Quoting Steve G., from the post of Fri, 04 Oct: So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. I have yet to see a cheap hardware off-the-shelf NAS that can beat a PC in performance or flexibility. I would get three WD Red disks and build a Linux machine around them, doesn't have to be too powerful. Don't stick old drives in there, you want reliability. use RAID5 in software, dm-crypt if you want some privacy, Samba, NFS and OwnClouׁ• like people already suggested, and a very logical directory tree so you can find everything easily. Also - backup backup baskup. there are cheap cloud services where you can have unlimited storagef for $20-$#0 a year, the better ones support rsync. don't be too cheap, you want your data alive. Especially unique stuff like family photos that can't be recovered from a torrent site... -- Built by 100 monkeys with 100 typewriters Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Still beta but I've just heard about it and it got me thinking about something like this for myself one day: https://arkos.io/ The main problem I see with running my own server is that it depends on my home ADSL line. Most of the time it shouldn't be a major problem but still access will be slower and more limited compared to, for instance, GMail. On 7 October 2013 20:13, Udi Finkelstein linux...@udif.com wrote: Using a PC as a server has several drawbacks: 1. Size 2. Power consumption A typical ARM based NAS will usually beat a PC in both categories. BTW, for backing up pictures, if you don't use the RAW file format, you can use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want). Udi On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Ira Abramov lists-linux...@ira.abramov.org wrote: Quoting Steve G., from the post of Fri, 04 Oct: So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. I have yet to see a cheap hardware off-the-shelf NAS that can beat a PC in performance or flexibility. I would get three WD Red disks and build a Linux machine around them, doesn't have to be too powerful. Don't stick old drives in there, you want reliability. use RAID5 in software, dm-crypt if you want some privacy, Samba, NFS and OwnClouׁ• like people already suggested, and a very logical directory tree so you can find everything easily. Also - backup backup baskup. there are cheap cloud services where you can have unlimited storagef for $20-$#0 a year, the better ones support rsync. don't be too cheap, you want your data alive. Especially unique stuff like family photos that can't be recovered from a torrent site... -- Built by 100 monkeys with 100 typewriters Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- [image: View my profile on LinkedIn] http://www.linkedin.com/in/gliderflyer ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
I did the math once, not worth it, חפרתי קצת לגבי לוחות שלא זוללים הרבה חשמל ומצאתי כמה אבל היתה לי עכשיו שיחה ממש מעניינת עם בחור בשם יריב מאתר plonter הבחור לא איש שיווק אבל הוא תפר לי משהו יפיפיה מארז מעוצב ב-1500 אני יכול לשחק טיפה עם הלוח אם ולקחת משהו חזק יותר אם צריך עוד משהו שיצא לבדוק, אם אני אשתמש בספק של 120W בערך העלות לשנה תהיה בערך 350 שח ואז ההפרש בין QNAP 459 Pro+ II שצורך בערך 33W, למחשב רגיל יורד עד בערך 200~ חיסכון לשנה אז יוצא שלקנות NAS תפור מראש יצא משהו בערך של 5000~ שח והרכבה של מחשב מאפס תעלה לי גג 2000 שח הפרש של 3000 שקל שההחזר שלו במנות של 200 יהיה 15 שנה ולא נראה לי שאני יוכל להנות מ-QNAS עד 15 שנה :) עוד מוצר שיצא לי לבדוק הוא - HP ProLiant N36L העלות שלו היא בערך 1500 שח ונראה שניתן לפרמט ולהתקין עליו FREENAS On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Udi Finkelstein linux...@udif.com wrote: Using a PC as a server has several drawbacks: 1. Size 2. Power consumption A typical ARM based NAS will usually beat a PC in both categories. BTW, for backing up pictures, if you don't use the RAW file format, you can use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want). Udi On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Ira Abramov lists-linux...@ira.abramov.org wrote: Quoting Steve G., from the post of Fri, 04 Oct: So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. I have yet to see a cheap hardware off-the-shelf NAS that can beat a PC in performance or flexibility. I would get three WD Red disks and build a Linux machine around them, doesn't have to be too powerful. Don't stick old drives in there, you want reliability. use RAID5 in software, dm-crypt if you want some privacy, Samba, NFS and OwnClouׁ• like people already suggested, and a very logical directory tree so you can find everything easily. Also - backup backup baskup. there are cheap cloud services where you can have unlimited storagef for $20-$#0 a year, the better ones support rsync. don't be too cheap, you want your data alive. Especially unique stuff like family photos that can't be recovered from a torrent site... -- Built by 100 monkeys with 100 typewriters Ira Abramov http://ira.abramov.org/email/ ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- *Rabin* ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
DO NOT USE RAID 5, Go for 1, 6, or 10 : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162 use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want)... Marked or not, if you flickr privet it will not be anymore. Which may be OK as long as you know. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
There are plenty of cheap low-power mainboards available... Intel Atom boards AMD E-series ARM stuff (pandaboard, beagleboard, and many more) So you can build your own low-power solution that will use in the area of 33W (though if you have lot's of disks I really don't see how you would get that low a peak usage with more then 2 disks since the avg. usage of a disk is about 10W, though that may have improved by now...) And yes, RAID 6, 1, 10 or RAIDZ should be what you look at Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו 2013/10/7 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: DO NOT USE RAID 5, Go for 1, 6, or 10 : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162 use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want)... Marked or not, if you flickr privet it will not be anymore. Which may be OK as long as you know. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Are the drives spinning all the time? If the drives are not accessed for some time (say, one hour) then I would expect the device to spin them down. On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 2:20 PM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: There are plenty of cheap low-power mainboards available... Intel Atom boards AMD E-series ARM stuff (pandaboard, beagleboard, and many more) So you can build your own low-power solution that will use in the area of 33W (though if you have lot's of disks I really don't see how you would get that low a peak usage with more then 2 disks since the avg. usage of a disk is about 10W, though that may have improved by now...) And yes, RAID 6, 1, 10 or RAIDZ should be what you look at Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו 2013/10/7 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: DO NOT USE RAID 5, Go for 1, 6, or 10 : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162 use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want)... Marked or not, if you flickr privet it will not be anymore. Which may be OK as long as you know. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
2013/10/7 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com: Are the drives spinning all the time? If the drives are not accessed for some time (say, one hour) then I would expect the device to spin them down. Well that depends on the firmware/OS and the optimizations you add... In prebuilt stuff I would also expect it, in self built stuff it depends 100% on you. On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 2:20 PM, E.S. Rosenberg esr+linux...@g.jct.ac.il wrote: There are plenty of cheap low-power mainboards available... Intel Atom boards AMD E-series ARM stuff (pandaboard, beagleboard, and many more) So you can build your own low-power solution that will use in the area of 33W (though if you have lot's of disks I really don't see how you would get that low a peak usage with more then 2 disks since the avg. usage of a disk is about 10W, though that may have improved by now...) And yes, RAID 6, 1, 10 or RAIDZ should be what you look at Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו 2013/10/7 vordoo vor...@yahoo.com: DO NOT USE RAID 5, Go for 1, 6, or 10 : http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162 use flickr which offers free storage up to 1TB (you can mark all your files private if you want)... Marked or not, if you flickr privet it will not be anymore. Which may be OK as long as you know. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
Short answer: - cheaper than dirt, or at least double digits, not triple (in dollars) Sorry this is not going to happen, adjust the figure come back later. Lookup one of the 'of the shelf' -W.D My Books, or whatever, home NAS systems. You can get or build one like these, copy all your data: - Slowly by browsing to the home-NAS web interface from your old devices or PCs. - Faster by connection to the home-NAS file share OR direct connecting a USB adapter from home-NAS to the old IDE's or SD-cards. If you D.I.Y you may get a better system. Maybe combine a new router/firewall in the NAS to solve the two network, wired WiFi, problem. but the price will be more or less the same. Because -... Long Answer: - if it can handle IDE drives it would be awesome - all my old drives are IDE , and it would be nice to continue using them. Nope, it probably will be a bad idea to use the old disks, instead of buying a one new big efficient HD: - It will cost you more money to connect use the old ones. If you have a motherboard that can accept all of them, it will use a lot more electricity, if you do not have one it will cost you on top of that to get the old one's even connected. - It will make a lot more noise, heat and you pay for damping cooling it. - They are old getting older, they are going to die soon, you do back up:-) If not, I need a solution to connect the older drives - at least so I can transfer the data without taking apart an older computer and physically mounting each drive. Your home-NAS will have it setup for you, by using NFS, SMB or a web interface, whether built from scratch -running your own linux server services on hardware similar to the one's that are suggested for FreeNAS projects, or proprietary solution. After you have setup the file share in the NAS, SAN or whatever you can boot your old device/PC and move the data to the share: - Slowly by browsing to the home-NAS web interface from your old devices or PCs. - Faster by connection to the home-NAS file share OR Take out the old IDE's, SD-card or whatever holds your data and plug it with a USB adapter to the home-NAS. See: Open source implementations FreeNas, Openindiana, Owncloud (not exactly a NAS but you may like it). And proprietary solutions, W.D. My book or whatever. - 2 drives (maybe more?) Yep, but... as you ask that it be cheap, make sure you address the backup before you spend on redundant disks -AS THEY ARE NOT BACKUPS!. And, in today high density disks era, you DO NOT use raid 5 -It is statistically practically granted to fail. Go for raid 1, 6 or 10. - accessible by both wired and wireless connections, if possible No problem, see above. Questions: 1. What do I do if my wireless router has two IP networks, one for the wired computers and the other for the wireless (a real situation and also a real pain in the ass - wired computers and laptops could not reach one another)? - You have an option in the router to use only one network or brig the mandatory two. - You have an option to change/upgrade the firmware to one that can do the above. See: OpenWRT, DD-WRT, Tomato, etc. - Get a new router or build a home-NAS that is a router too. - Brig the networks on another device, build a home-NAS that is a brig for the two networks. 2. Is there a simple way - or any way - to connect to the drive from several networks (because the cell phones have a different IP address, and also the wired and wireless devices might have separate IP addresses)? Yes, you share the drive connect with web or brig the networks, see above. HTH, ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Steve G. word...@gmail.com wrote: I am getting to a point that, between all the old computers I still own or use, the orphan hard drives from abandoned systems, and the dual boot laptops, I have a storage nightmare. I have photos, videos, articles, music, everywhere, and it is getting to the point that I can't access files because I don't know where they are or were, or because they are on drive that are no longer in use. So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. Any suggestions of devices, or where to look for them? Here is what I think it should look like: - OS agnostic - should play well with Linux, MacOS, Win7 or 8 (for future). If I can access it from tablets or smart phones (iOS or Android), even better. - if it can handle IDE drives it would be awesome - all my old drives are IDE , and it would be nice to continue using them. If not, I need a solution to connect the older drives - at least so I can transfer the data without taking apart an older computer and physically mounting each drive. - 2 drives (maybe more?) - accessible by both wired and wireless connections, if possible - I assume I would have to connect to the device directly to set up the IP, and from then on manage it remotely. If I can set the IP address without connecting (I remember headless servers that let you set the IP with a toggle on the device) life would be so much easier. - cheaper than dirt, or at least double digits, not triple (in dollars) Questions: 1. What do I do if my wireless router has two IP networks, one for the wired computers and the other for the wireless (a real situation and also a real pain in the ass - wired computers and laptops could not reach one another)? 2. Is there a simple way - or any way - to connect to the drive from several networks (because the cell phones have a different IP address, and also the wired and wireless devices might have separate IP addresses)? Thanks, Z. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il You can build your own NAS server from a old PC parts and run FreeNAS on it. as for IDE adapter you can buy one of this cheap adapter - http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-to-IDE-SATA-2-5-3-5-Hard-Drive-Disk-HDD-Converter-Adapter-Cable-/290760774098?pt=US_Drive_Cables_daptershash=item43b2b151d2 but from experience - they tend to over heat and die - so i spend few more dollars a bought the dock station version and i use my portable drive transformer with it. - http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-3-5-2-5-IDE-SATA-HDD-Dual-Docking-Station-HUB-AC-Adapter-USB-Cable-/300907274121?pt=US_Drive_Enclosures_Dockshash=item460f789f89 no so long ago i was looking to build a NAS server for my self and I compiled a list of some hardware parts i like to buy for this, maybe it will help you, my total was over 2000 NIS (~600$), but you can scale down the spec to fit your budget and needs. 580 x1 CASE - Antec P280 # support for 6 drives with easy access 300 x1 CPU - Intel Dual Core G2030 Ivy Bridge Box 390 x1 Motherboard - ASRock H77M 425 x1 Memory - Kit Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600MHz KHX1600C9D3B1K2/8GX # check recommendation for raid - no GREEN drives 330 x3 DRIVES - Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB SATA3 / SATA2 # A single-parity RAIDZ (raidz) configuration at 3 disks (2+1) Total ~ 2000 NIS -- *Rabin* ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: Linux friendly NAS or networked drive/raid - perhaps wireless
2013/10/5 Steve G. word...@gmail.com: I am getting to a point that, between all the old computers I still own or use, the orphan hard drives from abandoned systems, and the dual boot laptops, I have a storage nightmare. I have photos, videos, articles, music, everywhere, and it is getting to the point that I can't access files because I don't know where they are or were, or because they are on drive that are no longer in use. So I am thinking, maybe I should get an external network drive, or raid, or NAS, and use it to consolidate my drive and keep all my files in one place from now onward. Any suggestions of devices, or where to look for them? As Rabin says you can build one yourself, computer shops also carry tons of them these days and most are essentially a linux embedded device with some (proprietary) front-end. Here is what I think it should look like: - OS agnostic - should play well with Linux, MacOS, Win7 or 8 (for future). If I can access it from tablets or smart phones (iOS or Android), even better. Linux - NFS, Samba, WebDAV, most any fs you can think of (though if you want your home to live there you need a POSIX compliant fs to avoid major PITAs) - if it can handle IDE drives it would be awesome - all my old drives are IDE , and it would be nice to continue using them. Are you sure you want to invest the electricity in oparting lots of old drives when you can probably migrate all the data on them to one new drive and still have room to spare? (obviously it should be one set of drives with proper data security in mind but the idea). If not, I need a solution to connect the older drives - at least so I can transfer the data without taking apart an older computer and physically mounting each drive. USB to ATA adapters go for less then 100 NIS at both KSP and ivory, other real computer stores probably also carry them, BUG may not... - 2 drives (maybe more?) If I had only 2 drives I would mirror them... but you can get more drives and have less overhead for the same data security through RAIDZ or RAID5/6 - accessible by both wired and wireless connections, if possible No reason it shouldn't be possible on something you build yourself, most consumer product NAS products feature only wired interfaces but 17 of the 752 products listed by tweakers.net do claim to have such an interface. - I assume I would have to connect to the device directly to set up the IP, and from then on manage it remotely. If I can set the IP address without connecting (I remember headless servers that let you set the IP with a toggle on the device) life would be so much easier. Some products have a little embedded screen and some buttons that would allow for a headless setup. - cheaper than dirt, or at least double digits, not triple (in dollars) Only the simplest of simple NAS products (that generally only have 1-2 harddrive bays) have 2-digit dollar prices. Questions: 1. What do I do if my wireless router has two IP networks, one for the wired computers and the other for the wireless (a real situation and also a real pain in the ass - wired computers and laptops could not reach one another)? Get a decent wireless router, reconfigure your current router, or if you made the choice continuously (though you question makes it sound like you didn't) then either the NAS will have both wireless and wired connectivity and be a potential bridge between the 2 networks that should have been isolated from one and other, or you enable routing between the 2 networks on the router which would essentially defeat the purpose of separating the 2 networks in the first place unless you do so with careful policies. 2. Is there a simple way - or any way - to connect to the drive from several networks (because the cell phones have a different IP address, and also the wired and wireless devices might have separate IP addresses)? Cellphones would have the same set of IPs unless you are using you cellular providers' Internet and not your wireless in which case you need to ask yourself Am I comfortable exposing all my data protected by a measly password at best to the big bad Internet (tm)? On a self built solution you may very well be able to raise security and use keys etc. but still the question will always be Am I comfortable with the level of security I created. Regards, Eliyahu - אליהו Thanks, Z. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
