Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-19 22:46, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: On 8/19/20 3:39 AM, Daniel wrote: It seems a bit tricky to get reaction on the list by those who are interested to respond without some others who are not really interested in discussion feeling called upon as well. I guess the problem is that if they do not pitch in then it might be said or thought "Why haven't you said earlier that you are against it?" I am not sure how to solve that problem. One solution might be to move initial discussions about patches to the bug tracker. There many people don't get automatic updates and hence the problem is circumvented. That's quite often done. It depends upon the size of the project. E.g., when I was re-writing the updateBuffer routines, it touched enough code that discussion happened here mostly. But for smaller things, yes, trac is probably the best place to work. Riki Thanks Riki. Good to know I seem not to be totally off with interpretations here. But I guess I needed a little bit of experience with posting patches on the list to figure this out. Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 8/19/20 3:39 AM, Daniel wrote: > It seems a bit tricky to get reaction on the list by those who are > interested to respond without some others who are not really > interested in discussion feeling called upon as well. I guess the > problem is that if they do not pitch in then it might be said or > thought "Why haven't you said earlier that you are against it?" I am > not sure how to solve that problem. One solution might be to move > initial discussions about patches to the bug tracker. There many > people don't get automatic updates and hence the problem is circumvented. That's quite often done. It depends upon the size of the project. E.g., when I was re-writing the updateBuffer routines, it touched enough code that discussion happened here mostly. But for smaller things, yes, trac is probably the best place to work. Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-18 10:14, Daniel wrote: On 2020-08-17 11:04, Daniel wrote: On 2020-08-17 10:59, Daniel wrote: ps. The patch is changing often. Currently, the layout box look as the attached screen capture (on macOS). I have a serious question for everyone who voted (for and against the inclusion): Have you tried the patch while working in LyX for some time before casting the vote? Just to clarify my intentions: I was honestly interested in whether people have tried the patch or not. I did not mean to say that people *should* have tried the patch. Not even in case someone voted. I know people don't have the time or interest to try every patch posted here. And that's totally fine. However, I think in that case leaving more time for people who are actually interested to discuss is a good idea. And things are particularly slow at the moment I guess due to holidays and COV-19 related issues. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure that I did not mean people to do things they don't want to. However, I tend to argue about things if I disagree. That might not be everyone's cup of tea. I never mean to force people accept my position. I accept if someone just disagree. But I prefer it if I can better understand why. It seems a bit tricky to get reaction on the list by those who are interested to respond without some others who are not really interested in discussion feeling called upon as well. I guess the problem is that if they do not pitch in then it might be said or thought "Why haven't you said earlier that you are against it?" I am not sure how to solve that problem. One solution might be to move initial discussions about patches to the bug tracker. There many people don't get automatic updates and hence the problem is circumvented. Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Dienstag, den 18.08.2020, 10:14 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > I have a serious question for everyone who voted (for and against the > inclusion): > > Have you tried the patch while working in LyX for some time before > casting the vote? Please let people give their opinion and do not constantly try to influence the process. If you do not stop with that, I will switch to secret ballot. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-17 11:04, Daniel wrote: On 2020-08-17 10:59, Daniel wrote: ps. The patch is changing often. Currently, the layout box look as the attached screen capture (on macOS). I have a serious question for everyone who voted (for and against the inclusion): Have you tried the patch while working in LyX for some time before casting the vote? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:45:44PM +0200, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so > I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. > > Three options have been proposed: > > A. Include the change without way to opt-out > B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out >(i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) > C. Do not include the change > > In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or > C. C. -- Enrico -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On 2020-08-17 12:45, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 09:13 +0200 schrieb Daniel: Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, but I haven't seen much support for the change from the others. Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about it. I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. Three options have been proposed: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or C. My vote is B. Jürgen I vote B. But only because my candidate isn't on the ballot. I also think that the vote is a bit too early in the process. How informed will the judgement be if people didn't try the patch for some time? Or is this a vote on whether people should merely be encouraged to try the patch for some time by committing it to master? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Am 17.08.2020 um 12:45 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller : > > Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 09:13 +0200 schrieb Daniel: >>> Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, >>> but I haven't >>> seen much support for the change from the others. >> >> Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well >> thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about >> it. > > I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so > I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. > > Three options have been proposed: > > A. Include the change without way to opt-out > B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out > (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) > C. Do not include the change > > In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or > C. > > My vote is B. > > Jürgen My vote is C (B with opt-out w/o gui provokes a new discussion about sensible defaults). Stephan -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-17 18:25, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: On 8/17/20 10:48 AM, Daniel wrote: On 17/8/20 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 09:13:45AM +0200, Daniel wrote: I guess you don't like the current Preferences > Editing > Control because it contains two GUI switches that seem to apply to a single combobox Indeed. I have suggested the formatted combobox a little while ago with reasons for why it might be a good idea (mainly giving an indication what the layout is as is done in the work area). Everyone who has responded so far (who are not too many) was indifferent so far, except for Riki who seemed in favor. Maybe one could take the non-response of others as indifference. My interpretation of silence when I encounter it for my proposal on the list is either indifference or silent reservation (people don't want to argue or don't want to hurt). I think silence on purpose to a proposal is not good. It only leads to people having to guess. Indifference is quite different from reservation and it is important to know. Yes, but people have limited time to devote to LyX and sometimes just let the discussion play out first. Email can be time consuming. In any event, Pavel is right about how we have worked in the past. Yes, makes sense to wait and see how a discussion unfolds first without investing too much time. But should then silence to a proposal discourage people from arguing for it? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 8/17/20 10:48 AM, Daniel wrote: > On 17/8/20 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 09:13:45AM +0200, Daniel wrote: >>> I guess you don't like the current Preferences > Editing > Control >>> because >>> it contains two GUI switches that seem to apply to a single combobox >> >> Indeed. >> >>> I have suggested the formatted combobox a little while ago with >>> reasons for >>> why it might be a good idea (mainly giving an indication what the >>> layout is >>> as is done in the work area). Everyone who has responded so far (who >>> are not >>> too many) was indifferent so far, except for Riki who seemed in >>> favor. Maybe >>> one could take the non-response of others as indifference. >> >> My interpretation of silence when I encounter it for my proposal on >> the list >> is either indifference or silent reservation (people don't want to >> argue or >> don't want to hurt). > > I think silence on purpose to a proposal is not good. It only leads to > people having to guess. Indifference is quite different from > reservation and it is important to know. Yes, but people have limited time to devote to LyX and sometimes just let the discussion play out first. Email can be time consuming. In any event, Pavel is right about how we have worked in the past. Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 17/8/20 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 09:13:45AM +0200, Daniel wrote: I guess you don't like the current Preferences > Editing > Control because it contains two GUI switches that seem to apply to a single combobox Indeed. I have suggested the formatted combobox a little while ago with reasons for why it might be a good idea (mainly giving an indication what the layout is as is done in the work area). Everyone who has responded so far (who are not too many) was indifferent so far, except for Riki who seemed in favor. Maybe one could take the non-response of others as indifference. My interpretation of silence when I encounter it for my proposal on the list is either indifference or silent reservation (people don't want to argue or don't want to hurt). I think silence on purpose to a proposal is not good. It only leads to people having to guess. Indifference is quite different from reservation and it is important to know. That doesn't mean that people should be careful in expressing their reservations. After all they might have thought about the proposal much less than the proponent. If even after another iteration (like the initial thread here) I don't get answer I am very reluctant to start coding, or I do just some quick & ugly & hackish solution for private needs. Otherwise there is big risk that my time will be wasted and never make it to master. Well, the only answers I got were positive (until lately). Quick & hackish it is. Ugly seems kind of problematic with GUI stuff even for personal use. So I guess the home-take message is that unless you get few positive responses after initial proposing UI change you better focus the energy on different issue instead of trying to argue your way through. The issue seemed to me important enough to warrant some extended exchange of arguments. After all it is one of the central GUI elements in LyX everyone uses. But I see that is more controversial than I thought. Focusing ones energy on the non-controversial stuff is probably all right. And it's what brings LyX the most forward. But it makes some kinds of progress impossible. I still think this latter kind of progress is important. I am not used to work in such projects. So, I might well be wrong about what is good. -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 09:13:45AM +0200, Daniel wrote: > I guess you don't like the current Preferences > Editing > Control because > it contains two GUI switches that seem to apply to a single combobox Indeed. > I have suggested the formatted combobox a little while ago with reasons for > why it might be a good idea (mainly giving an indication what the layout is > as is done in the work area). Everyone who has responded so far (who are not > too many) was indifferent so far, except for Riki who seemed in favor. Maybe > one could take the non-response of others as indifference. My interpretation of silence when I encounter it for my proposal on the list is either indifference or silent reservation (people don't want to argue or don't want to hurt). If even after another iteration (like the initial thread here) I don't get answer I am very reluctant to start coding, or I do just some quick & ugly & hackish solution for private needs. Otherwise there is big risk that my time will be wasted and never make it to master. So I guess the home-take message is that unless you get few positive responses after initial proposing UI change you better focus the energy on different issue instead of trying to argue your way through. Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Le 17 août 2020 15:28:22 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : >On 17/8/20 14:50, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> Le 17 août 2020 14:46:34 GMT+02:00, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes > a écrit : >>> 3/ new prefs that make debugging difficult, among others >> >> s/that// > >What does that mean? >-- >Daniel > >-- >lyx-devel mailing list >lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org >http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel Sorry, an unixism. With the sed program, this command tells to replace "that" by nothing, since it was an editing leftover. In general s/this/that/ means: replace "this" by "that". JMarc -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On 17/8/20 14:50, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 17 août 2020 14:46:34 GMT+02:00, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : 3/ new prefs that make debugging difficult, among others s/that// What does that mean? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 15:17 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > Maybe something like this could fix it? The voting is running. Either name your vote or don't. I am not going to change the procedure in any way. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 17/8/20 14:49, Daniel wrote: On 17/8/20 14:04, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 13:58 +0200 schrieb Daniel: The choices are: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change I take it that 1. Since the patch isn't finished yet, "the change" means "a change along the way of the current patch". If the majority rejects the feature, it will not going to be included. Otherwise, it will be included in the way the majority opts for. So, since there is no finished patch, I take it to mean "something along the way of the current patch will be included" when A or B win and then a GUI switch added or not depending on whether A or B wins. 2. Since the discussion was about a GUI switch, "way top opt-out" means "GUI switch". Yes. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I tend to prefer a GUI switch but would rather have the change included in some form than not. Should I vote A or B or is my preference not represented? This strikes me A. in any case, you have to decide. I will only count clear votings. My preference doesn't strike me as A. If my option wins, i.e. A wins, I don't get what I want. I'd rather B win. Or one could introduce a further option D. Include the change with way to opt-out (do include it if it cannot be opted out) There is a further problem (and it actually gets even worse by adding D): Say five people like me vote A, five like you vote B and six like Pavel vote C. Then it wouldn't be implemented. Even though most people would be happy with B (10 over 6). That strikes me as problematic. (Even worse, C won even though, say, the C people hardly had a preference while, say, the A people had a strong preferences...) Maybe something like this could fix it? There are two voting rounds. First voting round: throw the loser out. Second voting round: determines the winner. (There is still a problem with slight vs strong preferences and ties but those are problems with one round voting as well.) The options would be A. Include with GUI switch B. Include without GUI switch C. Do not include -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Le 17 août 2020 14:46:34 GMT+02:00, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : >3/ new prefs that make debugging difficult, among others s/that// -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 17/8/20 14:04, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 13:58 +0200 schrieb Daniel: The choices are: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change I take it that 1. Since the patch isn't finished yet, "the change" means "a change along the way of the current patch". If the majority rejects the feature, it will not going to be included. Otherwise, it will be included in the way the majority opts for. So, since there is no finished patch, I take it to mean "something along the way of the current patch will be included" when A or B win and then a GUI switch added or not depending on whether A or B wins. 2. Since the discussion was about a GUI switch, "way top opt-out" means "GUI switch". Yes. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I tend to prefer a GUI switch but would rather have the change included in some form than not. Should I vote A or B or is my preference not represented? This strikes me A. in any case, you have to decide. I will only count clear votings. My preference doesn't strike me as A. If my option wins, i.e. A wins, I don't get what I want. I'd rather B win. Or one could introduce a further option D. Include the change with way to opt-out (do include it if it cannot be opted out) There is a further problem (and it actually gets even worse by adding D): Say five people like me vote A, five like you vote B and six like Pavel vote C. Then it wouldn't be implemented. Even though most people would be happy with B (10 over 6). That strikes me as problematic. (Even worse, C won even though, say, the C people hardly had a preference while, say, the A people had a strong preferences...) -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Le 17 août 2020 12:45:44 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" a écrit : >I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so >I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. With a result along the lines of the latest screenshot posted by Daniel I think that 1/ the fonts have a cognitive cost (more things to think about) 2/ they do not add enough information to be worth this cost (far from it IMO) 3/ new prefs that make debugging difficult, among others Therefore my vote is >C. Do not include the change JMarc PS: that said, there may be other ways to improve the combox without showing font, but the margin on my vote bulletin is too narrow to describe them ;) -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 13:58 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > The choices are: > > > > A. Include the change without way to opt-out > > B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out > > (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) > > C. Do not include the change > > > > I take it that > > > > 1. Since the patch isn't finished yet, "the change" means "a change > > along the way of the current patch". If the majority rejects the feature, it will not going to be included. Otherwise, it will be included in the way the majority opts for. > 2. Since the discussion was about a GUI switch, "way top opt-out" > means "GUI switch". Yes. > I haven't made up my mind yet, but I tend to prefer a GUI switch but > would rather have the change included in some form than not. Should I > vote A or B or is my preference not represented? This strikes me A. in any case, you have to decide. I will only count clear votings. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 14/4/20 9:23, Daniel wrote: If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in Qt. I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance finding items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM styles from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling. Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like. I have a question about the voting going on in a subthreat of this threat. The choices are: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change I take it that 1. Since the patch isn't finished yet, "the change" means "a change along the way of the current patch". 2. Since the discussion was about a GUI switch, "way top opt-out" means "GUI switch". Is that right? I haven't made up my mind yet, but I tend to prefer a GUI switch but would rather have the change included in some form than not. Should I vote A or B or is my preference not represented? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On 17/8/20 13:44, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:53:37PM +0200, Kornel Benko wrote: Three options have been proposed: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or C. My vote is B. Jürgen A. No strong opinion, but if pushed for decision then C (WYSIWYM argument). Maybe Score voting should be introduced (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Score_voting). :) -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 13:42 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > I guess questions are still allowed. I only count votes in this subthread and ignore everything else. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:53:37PM +0200, Kornel Benko wrote: > > Three options have been proposed: > > > > A. Include the change without way to opt-out > > B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out > >(i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) > > C. Do not include the change > > > > In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or > > C. > > > > My vote is B. > > > > Jürgen > > A. No strong opinion, but if pushed for decision then C (WYSIWYM argument). Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
On 17/8/20 12:53, Kornel Benko wrote: Am Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:45:44 +0200 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller : Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 09:13 +0200 schrieb Daniel: Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, but I haven't seen much support for the change from the others. Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about it. I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. Three options have been proposed: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or C. My vote is B. Jürgen A. Kornel I guess questions are still allowed. Shouldn't we have a vote on whether to have a vote first? ;) Well, I guess this is just about adding it to master, so we might change our mind later. I take it that 1. Since the patch isn't finished yet, "the change" means "a change along the way of the current patch". 2. Since the discussion was about a GUI switch, "way top opt-out" means "GUI switch". I haven't made up my mind yet, but I tend to prefer a GUI switch but would rather have the change included in some form than not. Should I vote A or B? -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Am Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:45:44 +0200 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller : > Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 09:13 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > > > Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, > > > but I haven't > > > seen much support for the change from the others. > > > > Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well > > thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about > > it. > > I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so > I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. > > Three options have been proposed: > > A. Include the change without way to opt-out > B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out >(i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) > C. Do not include the change > > In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or > C. > > My vote is B. > > Jürgen A. Kornel pgpwtRDDq_GLp.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Voting (was Re: Layout list WYSIWYM)
Am Montag, den 17.08.2020, 09:13 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > > Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, > > but I haven't > > seen much support for the change from the others. > > Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well > thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about > it. I think everybody has now heard enough arguments from anybody else, so I suggest we stop arguing and go voting to see how the preferences are. Three options have been proposed: A. Include the change without way to opt-out B. Include the change but only if it can be opted out (i.e., do not include it if it cannot be opted out) C. Do not include the change In this subthread, please do not give any more arguments, just A, B or C. My vote is B. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-17 10:59, Daniel wrote: On 2020-08-17 10:10, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 17 août 2020 09:28:11 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : The answer to "Do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be changed to be good for everyone?" seems to be: First question: Some seem to want it, one seems to be indifferent only if there is a GUI switch, others are indifferent. I have personally been busy with other stuff and did not answer as I should have. My main issue is that this pushes people away from the semantics of layouts and towards wysiwygness. We definitely do not want people to pick a particular layout because it looks like what they want. On the contrary, they should pick the one that does what they want, and then try to change it (different class, other tweaks) if the look is not acceptable. Yes, I thought about the WYSIWYGness of formatted style choosers. My thinking ended up being this: LyX uses formatting to give the user a better overview of a document (this is what I take to be according to WYSIWYM though I am using this term without having a definition). So, LyX helps the user in this way to get a better overview. And my thought was that having formatting in the layout combobox will fulfill some of the same purposes and that this is as much WYSIWYGness as in the work area (probably none). And I would expect a user coming from a WYSIWYG word processors to care much more about the result in the workarea than in the combobox. So the possible detrimental effect seems small. In general, I guess that choosing a layout by its visuals in the combobox has (at least) two sides: one is the risk that you might choose what looks most like what you want (this applies to the work area as well and more so, I would say). The other is that you choose using your visual memory of what you have chosen before, which in turn might help you choose quicker among the layouts without having to read. I see how the new look may seem nice, but could you give me an example of how it helps to pick the right layout? Some particular examples: - The LyX-Code and verbatim layouts have a typewriter font to distinguish it from the other main layouts. This distinction becomes visible in the layout combobox too. - The greater sizes or boldness of the sectioning layouts make the user distinguish them more quickly and find sections in the main text. This helps the user distinguish them and find the relevant section quickly in the combobox too. But I find it a bit hard to evaluate all these claims without having them tested more widely in practice. ps. The patch is changing often. Currently, the layout box look as the attached screen capture (on macOS). -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Mon, 17 Aug 2020 09:59:31 +0200 schrieb Jean-Marc Lasgouttes : > Le 17 août 2020 09:28:11 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : > >I think you missed to send the link. But I seem to remember to have > >read > >it before but found it quite controversial. Anyway, it would be nice if > > > >you could share it again, so I can refresh my memory. > > Sorry, here it is. > https://ometer.com/preferences.html > > JMarc > Nice article! Kornel pgpOvEuweF4L3.pgp Description: Digitale Signatur von OpenPGP -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-17 10:10, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 17 août 2020 09:28:11 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : The answer to "Do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be changed to be good for everyone?" seems to be: First question: Some seem to want it, one seems to be indifferent only if there is a GUI switch, others are indifferent. I have personally been busy with other stuff and did not answer as I should have. My main issue is that this pushes people away from the semantics of layouts and towards wysiwygness. We definitely do not want people to pick a particular layout because it looks like what they want. On the contrary, they should pick the one that does what they want, and then try to change it (different class, other tweaks) if the look is not acceptable. Yes, I thought about the WYSIWYGness of formatted style choosers. My thinking ended up being this: LyX uses formatting to give the user a better overview of a document (this is what I take to be according to WYSIWYM though I am using this term without having a definition). So, LyX helps the user in this way to get a better overview. And my thought was that having formatting in the layout combobox will fulfill some of the same purposes and that this is as much WYSIWYGness as in the work area (probably none). And I would expect a user coming from a WYSIWYG word processors to care much more about the result in the workarea than in the combobox. So the possible detrimental effect seems small. In general, I guess that choosing a layout by its visuals in the combobox has (at least) two sides: one is the risk that you might choose what looks most like what you want (this applies to the work area as well and more so, I would say). The other is that you choose using your visual memory of what you have chosen before, which in turn might help you choose quicker among the layouts without having to read. I see how the new look may seem nice, but could you give me an example of how it helps to pick the right layout? Some particular examples: - The LyX-Code and verbatim layouts have a typewriter font to distinguish it from the other main layouts. This distinction becomes visible in the layout combobox too. - The greater sizes or boldness of the sectioning layouts make the user distinguish them more quickly and find sections in the main text. This helps the user distinguish them and find the relevant section quickly in the combobox too. But I find it a bit hard to evaluate all these claims without having them tested more widely in practice. -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Le 17 août 2020 09:28:11 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : >I think you missed to send the link. But I seem to remember to have >read >it before but found it quite controversial. Anyway, it would be nice if > >you could share it again, so I can refresh my memory. Sorry, here it is. https://ometer.com/preferences.html JMarc -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Le 17 août 2020 09:28:11 GMT+02:00, Daniel a écrit : >The answer to "Do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be >changed to be good for everyone?" seems to be: > >First question: Some seem to want it, one seems to be indifferent only >if there is a GUI switch, others are indifferent. I have personally been busy with other stuff and did not answer as I should have. My main issue is that this pushes people away from the semantics of layouts and towards wysiwygness. We definitely do not want people to pick a particular layout because it looks like what they want. On the contrary, they should pick the one that does what they want, and then try to change it (different class, other tweaks) if the look is not acceptable. I see how the new look may seem nice, but could you give me an example of how it helps to pick the right layout? JMarc -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-17 00:37, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 16 août 2020 21:27:44 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : In general, ever thought about a further switch called "Advanced Preferences"? Adding an "advanced preference" section is a good sign that there is a preference issue ;) Here is some interesting reading from Gnome hacker Havoc Pennington about prefs. We might find good ideas there. I guess the right question to ask is "do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be changed to be good for everyone?". This is amore difficult path, but it leads to better programs. I think you missed to send the link. But I seem to remember to have read it before but found it quite controversial. Anyway, it would be nice if you could share it again, so I can refresh my memory. The answer to "Do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be changed to be good for everyone?" seems to be: First question: Some seem to want it, one seems to be indifferent only if there is a GUI switch, others are indifferent. Second question: It seems that it can't. Some like that it gives the user an indication of the layout, some want it plain. These are inconsistent. I understand and find reasonable both points of view, in particular because this is a new feature that hasn't been tried out for a longer time in LyX. The feature isn't ready for testing in master yet as I recently noticed. But it might be worth introducing it at a later point so that the developers can try it out. I fully agree that asking these question leads to better programs. And it might be that we have to reconsider the answers again with respect to the feature. However, sometimes choice might be the best option (and not just for political reasons - pace Pavel). (See also my answers to Pavel.) -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-16 23:13, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 09:16:05PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 16 ao??t 2020 16:08:25 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : On 2020-08-16 16:06, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: Pavel was joking. Was he? I was actually serious. It's absurd to introduce new GUI switch for the sake of single combobox appearance. To me one should strive to get bunch of other developers on his side for the proposed change or add the patch to personal patchset as a his own peculiarity. From time to time it might happen that some change causes such conflict that we go for a switch -- it is not good for the software itself, but for political reasons we try not to make half of the team frustrated or similar. I don't see this is the case here. Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, but I haven't seen much support for the change from the others. Thanks a lot for your feedback. Here are my initial, maybe not well thought through, thoughts (these three words look so similar) about it. I guess you don't like the current Preferences > Editing > Control because it contains two GUI switches that seem to apply to a single combobox appearance. But I think it matters not only whether it is a single one but also whether it is a central, as in very often used, combobox. Single sounds unimportant but single most used combobox sounds a bit more important and might justify some ability for the user to tailor it to the user's liking. I have suggested the formatted combobox a little while ago with reasons for why it might be a good idea (mainly giving an indication what the layout is as is done in the work area). Everyone who has responded so far (who are not too many) was indifferent so far, except for Riki who seemed in favor. Maybe one could take the non-response of others as indifference. Jürgen seemed to be indifferent of the default only under the condition of a GUI switch. People work differently. IMO there is no best for everyone in many respects, in particular for the GUI. This is especially true for the beginner compared to the experienced. That's why software should allow the experienced user to change it to their liking, especially the GUI. There is another reason this is true for LyX: new features don't get much testing by users. So, it might be sometimes good to throw out some new ideas to users with the ability to disable it to not force ideas on users. There is a number of software with many preferences. For example, LibreOffice has many preferences. The applications is configured in a way that the new user would not even have to touch them at all. That is most important. But I guess the experienced user appreciates the ability to set it to their liking. Other software has rather simple GUI preferences but also advanced settings. For example, Firefox has a (rather) simple main preferences about:preferences and, for the advanced user, about:config. Again, this is just my not well thought through thoughts (very similar, really). So, take it with a grain of salt. -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Le 16 août 2020 21:27:44 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : >>In general, ever thought about a further switch called "Advanced >Preferences"? Adding an "advanced preference" section is a good sign that there is a preference issue ;) Here is some interesting reading from Gnome hacker Havoc Pennington about prefs. We might find good ideas there. I guess the right question to ask is "do we want the feature at all? If not, how could it be changed to be good for everyone?". This is amore difficult path, but it leads to better programs. JMarc PS: of course Pavel was not joking. -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 09:16:05PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 16 ao??t 2020 16:08:25 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : > > > >On 2020-08-16 16:06, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: > >> Pavel was joking. > > Was he? I was actually serious. It's absurd to introduce new GUI switch for the sake of single combobox appearance. To me one should strive to get bunch of other developers on his side for the proposed change or add the patch to personal patchset as a his own peculiarity. >From time to time it might happen that some change causes such conflict that we go for a switch -- it is not good for the software itself, but for political reasons we try not to make half of the team frustrated or similar. I don't see this is the case here. Personally I don't care whether old or new combo version is used, but I haven't seen much support for the change from the others. Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-16 21:16, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 16 août 2020 16:08:25 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : On 2020-08-16 16:06, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: Pavel was joking. Was he? I see. I am still not sure about JMarc though. Anyway, I'll add a gui switch as Jürgen asked for. In general, I am against a new switch, but I would have to see the actual result. Our preference dialog is really a mess IMO. I can think about a good place. In general, ever thought about a further switch called "Advanced Preferences"? Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Le 16 août 2020 16:08:25 GMT+02:00, racoon a écrit : > >On 2020-08-16 16:06, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: >> Pavel was joking. Was he? >I see. I am still not sure about JMarc though. Anyway, I'll add a gui >switch as Jürgen asked for. In general, I am against a new switch, but I would have to see the actual result. Our preference dialog is really a mess IMO. JMarc -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-16 16:06, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: On 8/16/20 3:24 AM, Daniel wrote: On 2020-08-03 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 12:04:46PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 2 ao??t 2020 10:18:50 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" a écrit : Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). Just pretend you did not hear me :) Design of single combo box looks like exactly situation where we should have fight over single solution than providing another gui switch. I saw that there are gui switches for sorting and grouping environments. Does this only apply to the layout combo box so far (maybe that should be made explicit in the gui)? If so, I am inclined to think that if these warrant a gui switch, so does the formatted text layout box. Pavel was joking. I see. I am still not sure about JMarc though. Anyway, I'll add a gui switch as Jürgen asked for. Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 8/16/20 3:24 AM, Daniel wrote: > On 2020-08-03 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: >> On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 12:04:46PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >>> Le 2 ao??t 2020 10:18:50 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" >>> a écrit : Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). >>> >>> Just pretend you did not hear me :) >> >> Design of single combo box looks like exactly situation where >> we should have fight over single solution than providing another >> gui switch. > > I saw that there are gui switches for sorting and grouping > environments. Does this only apply to the layout combo box so far > (maybe that should be made explicit in the gui)? If so, I am inclined > to think that if these warrant a gui switch, so does the formatted > text layout box. Pavel was joking. Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-03 15:49, Pavel Sanda wrote: On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 12:04:46PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 2 ao??t 2020 10:18:50 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" a écrit : Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). Just pretend you did not hear me :) Design of single combo box looks like exactly situation where we should have fight over single solution than providing another gui switch. I saw that there are gui switches for sorting and grouping environments. Does this only apply to the layout combo box so far (maybe that should be made explicit in the gui)? If so, I am inclined to think that if these warrant a gui switch, so does the formatted text layout box. -- Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On Sun, Aug 02, 2020 at 12:04:46PM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 2 ao??t 2020 10:18:50 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" a > écrit : > >Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > >> Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? > > > >A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). > > Just pretend you did not hear me :) Design of single combo box looks like exactly situation where we should have fight over single solution than providing another gui switch. Pavel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Le 2 août 2020 10:18:50 GMT+02:00, "Jürgen Spitzmüller" a écrit : >Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: >> Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? > >A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). Just pretend you did not hear me :) JMarc -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Sonntag, den 02.08.2020, 09:44 +0200 schrieb Daniel: > Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? A pref entry would be fine (JMarc, I hear you screaming!). We already have prefs (in Edit > Control) to toggle sorting and grouping of layouts, so that would be the place. I can live with it being on by default. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-02 08:04, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Am Samstag, den 01.08.2020, 02:20 -0400 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: Patch fixing first two issues posted to bug. I'm happy to commit this, but I'd like a bit more input from the other devs and users about it. I hope this will be implemented with an option to switch it off. Personally I find such formatted combos distracting. Jürgen Do you prefer a ui or non-ui switch? Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
Am Samstag, den 01.08.2020, 02:20 -0400 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck: > Patch fixing first two issues posted to bug. I'm happy to commit > this, but I'd like a bit more input from the other devs and users > about it. I hope this will be implemented with an option to switch it off. Personally I find such formatted combos distracting. Jürgen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-08-01 08:20, Richard Kimberly Heck wrote: On 7/26/20 1:54 PM, Daniel wrote: On 2020-07-24 18:13, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:47, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:29, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:23, Daniel wrote: If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in Qt. I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance finding items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM styles from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling. Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like. Daniel There was some grayish background color. A nicer version is attached. Daniel Some more thoughts on the content of the items in the list: I guess the easiest way would be to always show label + layout-name However, in some cases this leads to non-ideal results. For example, this would result in Theorem 1. Theorem That's long and confusing. So, instead there needs to be an attribute, call it "LayoutListLabel", that allows the formatting if the layout list item should have a different content. I guess it would be enough to have a reference to the whole label (such as Riki's ## for PrettyFormat but more customization, which might also come to PrettyFormat soon, might be better). So, for the theorem environments it would be: LayoutListLabel "##" Due to popular demand ;), and for the fun of it, I have made some steps towards implementation. Attached is the visual result of these first steps. I think looks nice and helps to more quickly find what one is looking for. I'd be curious what you think? Next step would be to try to figure out how to get the string with counter and bullets. This would also make the stars (*) on the layout names redundant. Daniel A first attempt is the attached patch. Minor stuff: LyX style is: * ptr, not *ptr. Also x * y, not x*y. However, there are a couple of (possible) issues: 1. I get an ASSERTION: support/lassert.cpp (51): ASSERTION false VIOLATED IN /Users/Shared/LyX/lyx/src/frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp:132 frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp (133): Unrealized font! I guess I am not getting the QFont from the lyx::FontInfo correctly. But I am not sure what the correct function is. It seems otherwise to work as expected. 2. I am not sure the way I get the size of an unchanged row from the dropdownlist in an efficient way. Where is this? Here: // get default font pointsize and metric ... QFontMetrics fm(guititem->font()); I am trying to get my hand on the default height of the dropdown list rows to set a minimum height on the rows when the font size is, e.g. "Tiny". There is probably a better way to do this. But I also noticed that setting the row height as I did leads to the width becoming fixed as well which in turn cuts off very long layout names with enlarged fonts. I guess I will have to learn a little qt stylesheeting for this. For now, I suggest a patch that just does not care about the rows becoming tiny. Patch fixing first two issues posted to bug. I'm happy to commit this, but I'd like a bit more input from the other devs and users about it. (There's also the itemize, enumerate, etc, question, though that could be handled later.) Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 7/26/20 1:54 PM, Daniel wrote: > On 2020-07-24 18:13, Daniel wrote: >> On 2020-04-14 09:47, Daniel wrote: >>> On 2020-04-14 09:29, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:23, Daniel wrote: > If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in > Qt. I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance > finding items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM > styles from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling. > > Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like. > > Daniel > There was some grayish background color. A nicer version is attached. Daniel >>> >>> Some more thoughts on the content of the items in the list: >>> >>> I guess the easiest way would be to always show >>> >>> label + layout-name >>> >>> However, in some cases this leads to non-ideal results. For example, >>> this would result in >>> >>> Theorem 1. Theorem >>> >>> That's long and confusing. So, instead there needs to be an >>> attribute, call it "LayoutListLabel", that allows the formatting if >>> the layout list item should have a different content. I guess it >>> would be enough to have a reference to the whole label (such as >>> Riki's ## for PrettyFormat but more customization, which might also >>> come to PrettyFormat soon, might be better). So, for the theorem >>> environments it would be: >>> >>> LayoutListLabel "##" >> >> Due to popular demand ;), and for the fun of it, I have made some >> steps towards implementation. Attached is the visual result of these >> first steps. I think looks nice and helps to more quickly find what >> one is looking for. I'd be curious what you think? >> >> Next step would be to try to figure out how to get the string with >> counter and bullets. This would also make the stars (*) on the layout >> names redundant. >> >> Daniel >> >> > > A first attempt is the attached patch. Minor stuff: LyX style is: * ptr, not *ptr. Also x * y, not x*y. > However, there are a couple of (possible) issues: > > 1. I get an ASSERTION: > > support/lassert.cpp (51): ASSERTION false VIOLATED IN > /Users/Shared/LyX/lyx/src/frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp:132 > frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp (133): Unrealized font! > > I guess I am not getting the QFont from the lyx::FontInfo correctly. > But I am not sure what the correct function is. It seems otherwise to > work as expected. > 2. I am not sure the way I get the size of an unchanged row from the > dropdownlist in an efficient way. Where is this? Patch fixing first two issues posted to bug. I'm happy to commit this, but I'd like a bit more input from the other devs and users about it. (There's also the itemize, enumerate, etc, question, though that could be handled later.) Riki -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-07-26 19:54, Daniel wrote: On 2020-07-24 18:13, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:47, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:29, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:23, Daniel wrote: If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in Qt. I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance finding items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM styles from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling. Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like. Daniel There was some grayish background color. A nicer version is attached. Daniel Some more thoughts on the content of the items in the list: I guess the easiest way would be to always show label + layout-name However, in some cases this leads to non-ideal results. For example, this would result in Theorem 1. Theorem That's long and confusing. So, instead there needs to be an attribute, call it "LayoutListLabel", that allows the formatting if the layout list item should have a different content. I guess it would be enough to have a reference to the whole label (such as Riki's ## for PrettyFormat but more customization, which might also come to PrettyFormat soon, might be better). So, for the theorem environments it would be: LayoutListLabel "##" Due to popular demand ;), and for the fun of it, I have made some steps towards implementation. Attached is the visual result of these first steps. I think looks nice and helps to more quickly find what one is looking for. I'd be curious what you think? Next step would be to try to figure out how to get the string with counter and bullets. This would also make the stars (*) on the layout names redundant. Daniel A first attempt is the attached patch. However, there are a couple of (possible) issues: 1. I get an ASSERTION: support/lassert.cpp (51): ASSERTION false VIOLATED IN /Users/Shared/LyX/lyx/src/frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp:132 frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp (133): Unrealized font! I guess I am not getting the QFont from the lyx::FontInfo correctly. But I am not sure what the correct function is. It seems otherwise to work as expected. 2. I am not sure the way I get the size of an unchanged row from the dropdownlist in an efficient way. Maybe someone has a comment on any of the above or other? Daniel Ticket is at https://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/11914. Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-07-24 18:13, Daniel wrote:
On 2020-04-14 09:47, Daniel wrote:
On 2020-04-14 09:29, Daniel wrote:
On 2020-04-14 09:23, Daniel wrote:
If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in Qt.
I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance finding
items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM styles
from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling.
Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like.
Daniel
There was some grayish background color. A nicer version is attached.
Daniel
Some more thoughts on the content of the items in the list:
I guess the easiest way would be to always show
label + layout-name
However, in some cases this leads to non-ideal results. For example,
this would result in
Theorem 1. Theorem
That's long and confusing. So, instead there needs to be an attribute,
call it "LayoutListLabel", that allows the formatting if the layout
list item should have a different content. I guess it would be enough
to have a reference to the whole label (such as Riki's ## for
PrettyFormat but more customization, which might also come to
PrettyFormat soon, might be better). So, for the theorem environments
it would be:
LayoutListLabel "##"
Due to popular demand ;), and for the fun of it, I have made some steps
towards implementation. Attached is the visual result of these first
steps. I think looks nice and helps to more quickly find what one is
looking for. I'd be curious what you think?
Next step would be to try to figure out how to get the string with
counter and bullets. This would also make the stars (*) on the layout
names redundant.
Daniel
A first attempt is the attached patch. However, there are a couple of
(possible) issues:
1. I get an ASSERTION:
support/lassert.cpp (51): ASSERTION false VIOLATED IN
/Users/Shared/LyX/lyx/src/frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp:132
frontends/qt/GuiFontLoader.cpp (133): Unrealized font!
I guess I am not getting the QFont from the lyx::FontInfo correctly. But
I am not sure what the correct function is. It seems otherwise to work
as expected.
2. I am not sure the way I get the size of an unchanged row from the
dropdownlist in an efficient way.
Maybe someone has a comment on any of the above or other?
Daniel
diff --git a/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.cpp b/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.cpp
index 01cb60e652..ca9a60797f 100644
--- a/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.cpp
+++ b/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.cpp
@@ -31,6 +31,7 @@
#include "LyXRC.h"
#include "Paragraph.h"
#include "TextClass.h"
+#include "GuiFontLoader.h"
#include "insets/InsetText.h"
@@ -400,6 +401,8 @@ void LayoutBox::showPopup()
d->resetFilter();
QComboBox::showPopup();
view()->setUpdatesEnabled(enabled);
+ // update popup size to fit content which can be wider due to formatted
text
+ view()->setMinimumWidth(view()->sizeHintForColumn(0));
}
@@ -502,7 +505,7 @@ void LayoutBox::set(docstring const & layout)
void LayoutBox::addItemSort(docstring const & item, docstring const & category,
- bool sorted, bool sortedByCat, bool unknown)
+ FontInfo const & f, bool sorted, bool sortedByCat, bool unknown)
{
QString qitem = toqstr(item);
docstring const loc_item = translateIfPossible(item);
@@ -511,7 +514,16 @@ void LayoutBox::addItemSort(docstring const & item,
docstring const & category,
QString qcat = toqstr(translateIfPossible(category));
QList row;
- row.append(new QStandardItem(titem));
+ QStandardItem *guititem = new QStandardItem(titem);
+ // get default font pointsize and metric
+ int dfps = guititem->font().pointSize();
+ QFontMetrics fm(guititem->font());
+ // set item font according to layout
+ guititem->setFont(getFont(f));
+ // set minimum height in case the font is smaller than 1.5 default
+ if (guititem->font().pointSize() < dfps*1.5)
+ guititem->setSizeHint(QSize(sizeHint().width(), fm.height()*1.5));
+ row.append(guititem);
row.append(new QStandardItem(qitem));
row.append(new QStandardItem(qcat));
@@ -599,7 +611,7 @@ void LayoutBox::updateContents(bool reset)
// obsoleted layouts are skipped as well
if (!lit->obsoleted_by().empty())
continue;
- addItemSort(name, lit->category(), lyxrc.sort_layouts,
+ addItemSort(name, lit->category(), lit->font,
lyxrc.sort_layouts,
lyxrc.group_layouts, lit->isUnknown());
}
diff --git a/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.h b/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.h
index ac8c86e0f1..955f5adb8b 100644
--- a/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.h
+++ b/src/frontends/qt/LayoutBox.h
@@ -16,6 +16,8 @@
#ifndef LYX_LAYOUT_BOX_H
#define LYX_LAYOUT_BOX_H
+#include "FontInfo.h"
+
#include "support/strfwd.h"
#include
@@ -43,7 +45,7 @@ public:
void
Re: Layout list WYSIWYM
On 2020-04-14 09:29, Daniel wrote: On 2020-04-14 09:23, Daniel wrote: If I read correctly, then drop-down list items can be styled in Qt. I think it would look awesome and, more importantly, enhance finding items if the layout list would provide some of the WYSIWYM styles from the work area. I'd suggest font attributes and labeling. Attached is a mock-up of what this might look like. Daniel There was some grayish background color. A nicer version is attached. Daniel Some more thoughts on the content of the items in the list: I guess the easiest way would be to always show label + layout-name However, in some cases this leads to non-ideal results. For example, this would result in Theorem 1. Theorem That's long and confusing. So, instead there needs to be an attribute, call it "LayoutListLabel", that allows the formatting if the layout list item should have a different content. I guess it would be enough to have a reference to the whole label (such as Riki's ## for PrettyFormat but more customization, which might also come to PrettyFormat soon, might be better). So, for the theorem environments it would be: LayoutListLabel "##" Daniel -- lyx-devel mailing list lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org http://lists.lyx.org/mailman/listinfo/lyx-devel
