Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 11:46:54AM -0400, Joe wrote:

> But then that's the beauty of Linux. There are so many different ways to
> do things that different people with different skills aren't always forced
> to do things the same way.

Agreed. What I find sad is that many people actually prefer not having a
choice. Sometimes I notice this behavior with myself, but not in the
context of computers.

Scott


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Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Joe]

It would appear that on Apr 21, Helge Hafting did say:

> Thanks to all who replied, indicating some sort of local problem.
> 
> I use the middle mouse button when I use the mouse to select, and that is more
> common. Especially when copying between programs, when I need the mouse to
> switch focus anyway. (Forget alt+tab with more than "a few" windows.)

Whereas my own experience is somewhat different. But then I use separate
desktop areas for unrelated open windows so alt+tab only has a few windows
to cycle. On the other hand I tend to have several related lyx files open,
but that's alt+v so there's no conflict.

> When one is used to the ease of middle clicking, reaching for the keyboard
> takes way too much time. And not all apps use the same cut/paste keys. Using a
> right-click menu is even worse.

I've never found middle clicking easy. Even when I once actually had a three
button mouse. Now using a 2 button trackball on the PC and the Dell laptop has
an oversensitive non-synaptic touchpad that won't let me disable tap to click. 
I'm always using a keybinding to switch desktop areas just so I can get the
laptop's mouse pointer somewhere near where I even might want a click event
before switching back to the appropriate desktop area.

As it happens, I'm rather dependent on that right click menu.

> The hassle of bringing up a menu and locating the right choice when I already 
> had my
> finger on the mouse button that always do the right thing.

The only time I don't find it a hassle to use mouse copy/paste techniques
is when I'm moving text to/from an xterm (or more likely kde's Konsole
which is one of the few kde applications I still use since kde4 chased me
away)

> I feel pain when I see beginners bringing up cut/paste menus on linux because 
> they're
> used to such cumbersome ways from windows.

I use those menus a lot. But not because I got used to it from -retch- windows
I've been running from windows since version 3x. Only ever use it when
forced to use proprietary software that doesn't run without it.

But then that's the beauty of Linux. There are so many different ways to
do things that different people with different skills aren't always forced
to do things the same way.
-- 
Joe

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Helge Hafting]

Thanks to all who replied, indicating some sort of local problem.


Today, middle-click pasting from LyX to xterm works fine for me too. I 
don't know what happened, but I upgraded arch linux earlier today. Maybe 
some very temporary windowing bug got squashed.


This is good.  I use ctrl+c and v only when I use the keyboard to make 
the selection and move around. Typically when cutting & pasting within a 
LyX document. It is faster when I don't have to reach for the mouse.


I use the middle mouse button when I use the mouse to select, and that 
is more common. Especially when copying between programs, when I need 
the mouse to switch focus anyway. (Forget alt+tab with more than "a few" 
windows.)  When one is used to the ease of middle clicking, reaching for 
the keyboard takes way too much time. And not all apps use the same 
cut/paste keys. Using a right-click menu is even worse. The hassle of 
bringing up a menu and locating the right choice when I already had my 
finger on the mouse button that always do the right thing.  I feel pain 
when I see beginners bringing up cut/paste menus on linux because 
they're used to such cumbersome ways from windows.


Helge Hafting

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 03:25:07PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:56:54 +0200
> Helge Hafting  wrote:
> 
> > Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
> > middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there.
> > No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of
> > the X windowing system.
> > 
> > I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special
> > paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way?
> > Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it
> > into vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't
> > work, nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that
> > terminal before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in
> > LyX.
> > 
> > Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?
> 
> Ugh!
> 
> I switched from Windows to Linux in March 2001. In almost every
> respect, I greatly prefer Linux.
> 
> And then there's cut and paste.
> 
> Windows has one single clipboard buffer. No matter how you copy to it,
> and no matter how you paste from it, it works every time.
> 
> Linux has (at least) two separate clipboard buffers. Sometimes one or
> the other or both acquires text when you highlight. Sometimes one or
> the other acquires when you highlight and Ctrl+C. Sometimes you have to
> highlight and menu Edit->Copy: Sometimes Edit->Copy does different
> things than Ctrl+C.

I actually prefer this behavior, although it caused me some confusion to
begin with. The reason I like it is because I can have one thing stored
in my clipboard and if I just want to do a quick copy/paste I can select
something without it overwriting the clipboard.

If you want them all to act as one clipboard, you can do that. For
example, in CopyQ you can check the boxes

  - Store text selected using mouse
  - Paste mouse selection with clipboard

and then I think it's basically like you have one clipboard.

Scott


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Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:56:54 +0200
Helge Hafting  wrote:

> Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
> middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there.
> No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of
> the X windowing system.
> 
> I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special
> paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way?
> Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it
> into vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't
> work, nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that
> terminal before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in
> LyX.
> 
> Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?

Ugh!

I switched from Windows to Linux in March 2001. In almost every
respect, I greatly prefer Linux.

And then there's cut and paste.

Windows has one single clipboard buffer. No matter how you copy to it,
and no matter how you paste from it, it works every time.

Linux has (at least) two separate clipboard buffers. Sometimes one or
the other or both acquires text when you highlight. Sometimes one or
the other acquires when you highlight and Ctrl+C. Sometimes you have to
highlight and menu Edit->Copy: Sometimes Edit->Copy does different
things than Ctrl+C.

On the pasting end, you can middlebutton, press Ctrl+V, or
Edit->Paste, each of which might draw from a different buffer to
paste.

I've tended to find that the most reliable way to do what I really
want to do, in most situations, is highlight and use Ctrl+C on the
copy end, and use the middle mouse button on the paste end. If that
doesn't work, use Edit->Paste.

For me, Linux's dual-you-guess-which cut and paste has been a
productivity sink for as long as I've used Linux. I've found various
muscle-memory actions to minimize the problem, but it's still there.

I'd like to hear about anybody who has been able to use a clipboard
application to lessen these problems, but the clipboard application
should be:

1) Window manager/Desktop environment agnostic

2) Quick and easy to see history of both clipboards and paste any of
   them into a document

3) Extra credit for a clipboard application that strongarms both
   clipboards to anything captured with Ctrl+C or Edit->copy or
   Edit->Cut

SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2017 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Paul A. Rubin]

On 04/20/2017 02:56 PM, Guenter Milde wrote:

On 2017-04-20, Scott Kostyshak wrote:


Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
Document Settings.

middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
sure what's going wrong.

I can reproduce both: (lyx 2.2.2 on Debian, XFCE, no clipboard manager)

Sometimes, select and middle-paste works, sometimes not!

* Short text parts without special markup work.
   Paragraph breaks work, too.
   ERT works.
   Layout list works.
   
* Footnotes in the selection -- fail

   Selection in a heading -- fail
   Line with Newline inset or Space inset -- fail

No error in the terminal, nor in xsession-errors.

Günter

The three failures Günter lists work at my end (LyX 2.2.2, Mint Serena, 
Mate, no clipboard manager that I'm aware of).


Paul

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Guenter Milde]

On 2017-04-20, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

>> Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
>> work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
>> Document Settings.

> middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
> sure what's going wrong.

I can reproduce both: (lyx 2.2.2 on Debian, XFCE, no clipboard manager)

Sometimes, select and middle-paste works, sometimes not!

* Short text parts without special markup work.
  Paragraph breaks work, too.
  ERT works.
  Layout list works.
  
* Footnotes in the selection -- fail
  Selection in a heading -- fail
  Line with Newline inset or Space inset -- fail

No error in the terminal, nor in xsession-errors.

Günter

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Anthony Campbell]

On 20 Apr 2017, Paul A. Rubin wrote:
> On 04/20/2017 10:58 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:18:05AM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote:
> > > On 04/20/2017 07:41 AM, Helge Hafting wrote:
> > > > Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing.
> > > Hi Helge.
> > > Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
> > > work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
> > > Document Settings.
> > > The use of keyboard can be avoided in yet another way, by using the
> > > right-click context menus. Both LyX and Gnome terminal let me do this.
> > middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
> > sure what's going wrong.
> > 
> > Scott
> FWIW, middle-button works for me, too (Linux Mint Serena, based on Ubuntu
> Xenial).
> 
> Paul

And for me on OpenBSD.

A.
-- 
Anthony Campbellhttp://www.acampbell.uk

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Paul A. Rubin]

On 04/20/2017 10:58 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:18:05AM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote:

On 04/20/2017 07:41 AM, Helge Hafting wrote:

Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing.

Hi Helge.
Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
Document Settings.
The use of keyboard can be avoided in yet another way, by using the
right-click context menus. Both LyX and Gnome terminal let me do this.

middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
sure what's going wrong.

Scott
FWIW, middle-button works for me, too (Linux Mint Serena, based on 
Ubuntu Xenial).


Paul

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:58:49AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:18:05AM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote:
> > On 04/20/2017 07:41 AM, Helge Hafting wrote:
> > > Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing.
> > 
> > Hi Helge.
> > Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
> > work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
> > Document Settings.
> > The use of keyboard can be avoided in yet another way, by using the
> > right-click context menus. Both LyX and Gnome terminal let me do this.
> 
> middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
> sure what's going wrong.

Note that I do get many messages

  QXcbClipboard: SelectionRequest too old

when selecting. But I only get these when I have my clipboard manager
(CopyQ) open.

Scott


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Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:18:05AM -0400, PhilipPirrip wrote:
> On 04/20/2017 07:41 AM, Helge Hafting wrote:
> > Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing.
> 
> Hi Helge.
> Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not
> work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from
> Document Settings.
> The use of keyboard can be avoided in yet another way, by using the
> right-click context menus. Both LyX and Gnome terminal let me do this.

middle-button paste work fine for me on Ubuntu with LyX 2.2.2. I'm not
sure what's going wrong.

Scott


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Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[PhilipPirrip]

On 04/20/2017 07:41 AM, Helge Hafting wrote:

Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing.


Hi Helge.
Copying from the document Xwindow-style (middle button) does indeed not 
work. Interestingly, it does work from the Source Pane, as does from 
Document Settings.
The use of keyboard can be avoided in yet another way, by using the 
right-click context menus. Both LyX and Gnome terminal let me do this.

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Charlie]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 11:56:54 +0200
Helge Hafting  wrote:

> Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
> middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there.
> No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of
> the X windowing system.
> 
> I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special
> paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way?
> Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it
> into vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't
> work, nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that
> terminal before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in
> LyX.
> 
> Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?
> 
> I understand that there will be limitations - LyX supports formatting 
> and the terminal only handles text. Still, I have no problem pasting 
> from openoffice into xterm, vim or gvim.
> 
> Currently, the only way I can copy text out of LyX 2.2.2 is by
> exporting an ascii file, or opening the .lyx file in a text editor.
> Which is cumbersome for extracting a paragraph from a much longer
> document.
> 
> Is this a bug? Or do I need to change some setup to get this
> functionality?
> 
> Helge Hafting

Not certain if I know this is what's required: LyX Version 2.2.2
Debian Linux testing.

I can just highlight text in a LyX document. Just pressing, at the same
time, left and right mouse buttons, can paste into xterm.

Something that does happen on a couple of blog sites, is, if directly
copying from text from LyX, causes it all to be seen as a hyperlink? No
biggie though. Just copy it into a text editor and paste from there.

Don't know if that helps.

Be well,
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

They deem me mad because I will not sell my days for gold and I
deem them mad because they think my days have a price. --Kahlil
Gibran

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Helge Hafting]

Den 20. april 2017 12:10, skrev Wolfgang Engelmann:



Am 20.04.2017 um 11:56 schrieb Helge Hafting:
Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there. 
No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of 
the X windowing system.


I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special 
paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way? 
Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it 
into vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't 
work, nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that 
terminal before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in LyX.


Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?

I understand that there will be limitations - LyX supports formatting 
and the terminal only handles text. Still, I have no problem pasting 
from openoffice into xterm, vim or gvim.


Currently, the only way I can copy text out of LyX 2.2.2 is by 
exporting an ascii file, or opening the .lyx file in a text editor. 
Which is cumbersome for extracting a paragraph from a much longer 
document.


Is this a bug? Or do I need to change some setup to get this 
functionality?


Helge Hafting

Mark the text to be copied, ctr c, paste with ctr v should work
Wolfgang
Well, this works for (g)vim and firefox, because they bind "paste" to 
"ctrl v".  Thanks. Emacs can also paste using a different paste key.


It does not work if I want to paste something into the terminal itself 
though.


One case is when I want to test a command that I am writing about in LyX 
- I sometimes teach shell scripting. So I want to mark a long 
complicated command and paste it into an xterm to ensure there are no 
typos or other snags.


Another case is when I mark some paragraphs and paste it into a terminal 
that is running this:

cat > quicknotes
I can paste stuff from everything else: other terminals, firefox, 
openoffice. But not from LyX :-( Of course I can use "vim quicknotes" 
instead, but why should I have to?


Finally, using the mouse alone for mark+paste is much easier than
* mouse mark
* ctrl+c
* move mouse to other window
* ctrl+v (or whatever that app uses for a paste key)

Fewer transitions between mouse and keyboard is a good thing. Some 
extremists don't use the mouse at all, and do everything from the 
keyboard. I am not there, but grabbing the mouse _once_ is so much 
quicker than grabbing it twice and also using the keyboard twice. (And 
then it don't work for xterm either.)


Helge Hafting

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am 20.04.2017 um 12:10 schrieb Wolfgang Engelmann:



Am 20.04.2017 um 11:56 schrieb Helge Hafting:
Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there. 
No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of 
the X windowing system.


I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special 
paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way? 
Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it 
into vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't 
work, nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that 
terminal before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in LyX.


Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?

I understand that there will be limitations - LyX supports formatting 
and the terminal only handles text. Still, I have no problem pasting 
from openoffice into xterm, vim or gvim.


Currently, the only way I can copy text out of LyX 2.2.2 is by 
exporting an ascii file, or opening the .lyx file in a text editor. 
Which is cumbersome for extracting a paragraph from a much longer 
document.


Is this a bug? Or do I need to change some setup to get this 
functionality?


Helge Hafting

Mark the text to be copied, ctr c, paste with ctr v should work
Wolfgang
Or, if you want to copy a section, use the outline pane, click on the 
particular section (or whatever) with right mouse button, choose 'select'
(the selected part turns blue), ctr c and paste in your editor (or 
whatever) with ctr v

In This way you can also move up or down selected parts, very handy!

Wolfgang

Re: How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Wolfgang Engelmann]

Am 20.04.2017 um 11:56 schrieb Helge Hafting:
Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there. 
No wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of 
the X windowing system.


I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special 
paste to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way? 
Sometimes, I want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it into 
vim or something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't work, 
nothing happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that terminal 
before, the old text is pasted instead of what I marked in LyX.


Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?

I understand that there will be limitations - LyX supports formatting 
and the terminal only handles text. Still, I have no problem pasting 
from openoffice into xterm, vim or gvim.


Currently, the only way I can copy text out of LyX 2.2.2 is by 
exporting an ascii file, or opening the .lyx file in a text editor. 
Which is cumbersome for extracting a paragraph from a much longer 
document.


Is this a bug? Or do I need to change some setup to get this 
functionality?


Helge Hafting

Mark the text to be copied, ctr c, paste with ctr v should work
Wolfgang

How do I copy text from LyX to xterm/rxvt?

[Helge Hafting]

Most linux sw lets me mark text with the mouse, and then click the 
middle mouse button in some other window in order to paste it there. No 
wading through "cut/paste menus", this is one of the strengths of the X 
windowing system.


I have no problem pasting terminal text into LyX (or using special paste 
to deal with line endings). But how do I go the other way? Sometimes, I 
want to mark a paragraph or two in LyX, and paste it into vim or 
something else running in an xterm. But that doesn't work, nothing 
happens. If I have copy-pasted text within that terminal before, the old 
text is pasted instead of what I marked in LyX.


Doesn't LyX put marked text on the clipboard?

I understand that there will be limitations - LyX supports formatting 
and the terminal only handles text. Still, I have no problem pasting 
from openoffice into xterm, vim or gvim.


Currently, the only way I can copy text out of LyX 2.2.2 is by exporting 
an ascii file, or opening the .lyx file in a text editor. Which is 
cumbersome for extracting a paragraph from a much longer document.


Is this a bug? Or do I need to change some setup to get this functionality?

Helge Hafting