Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?
- Original message - On Fri, Sep 04, 2009 at 07:16:43PM +0200, kate.alh...@nokia.commailto:kate.alh...@nokia.com wrote: What people are asking here (among other things) is whether there are Qt widgets similar to HildonAppMenu or HildonPickerButton -which are absolutely essential for creating Fremantle applications- or developers are supposed to write them themselves. To avoid re-inventing the wheel again we are providing examples how you can do things with Qt. [...] If some of these composite widgets are so big problem, we can collect these examples as widget library. That's what I mean. While it's obvious that you can write apps for fremantle in toolkits other than Gtk/Hildon (e.g Canola), developers will have a hard time to make them fit in with the Fremantle UI style unless they have reasonable replacements for the most basic widgets. So yes, a widget library with equivalents to HildonAppMenu, HildonPickerButton, etc., would be the way to go in my opinion. First, sorry, the place to get hildon is git.maemo.org, as others have said. My bad. Now, on this QT thing, my personal view on the current state of QT in Maemo 5 is: QT is great when you want: - Create desktop (i.e. Home) applets - Create custom UIs like Canola - Create fancy unique animated stuff with your own graphics - Only need stuff to work with Maemo 5 skinning (i.e. Theme), don't care so much about finer details of user experience, as it is in Maemo 5. However, if you want to have the exact same user experience as the preinstalled Maemo 5 applications have (as seen in all youtube videos and the SDK), then you have much easier time and faster development with the gtk-based hildon widgets in Maemo 5. QT is at least equally powerful as GTK, but currently it lacks the Maemo 5 specific hildon widgets. So you would have to implement the most important hildon widgets yourself in QT, which is not easy if what you aim for is seamless user experience with the preinstalled Maemo 5 apps. The equivalent of Hildon (i.e. mobile, finger optimized widgets) is roughly the QT mobility http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/QtMobility, which is not available yet. As you can read from that page, you need more than vanilla QT for mobile UI. In GTK that mobile experience is provided by the new hildon widgets introduced in Maemo 5. BR, Mox ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Clutter 1.0 in maemo fremantle
(sorry for the crossposting, I couldn't decide which list was best) Hi all, I'd like to use clutter 1.0 (and clutter-gtk 0.10) in maemo fremantle, but so far I've had no luck. After applying the patches from bugs: http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1698 http://bugzilla.openedhand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1795 the build succeeded, but at runtime nothing appears on screen, and from the attached logs it seems that there is something wrong with EGL. Can anyone help me in finding out what's wrong? I can create a project on garage.maemo.org and upload the packages and the git repository, in case someone wants to hack on it. Ciao, Alberto -- http://www.mardy.it - geek in un lingua international! Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterX11 - [BACKEND] clutter-backend-x11.c:147: XOpenDisplay on ':0.0' Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterX11 - [BACKEND] clutter-backend-x11.c:174: Getting the X screen Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [BACKEND] ./clutter-backend.c:165: Units per em: 12,00 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterX11 - [BACKEND] clutter-backend-x11.c:226: X Display ':0.0'[0x1a3a8] opened (screen:0, root:68, dpi:96,00) Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-backend-egl.c:55: EGL Reports version 1.4 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [BACKEND] ./clutter-stage.c:1004: Creating stage from the default backend Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-backend-egl.c:245: Creating stage of type 'ClutterStageEGL' Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [MISC] clutter-backend-egl.c:260: EGLX stage created (display:0x1a3a8, screen:0, root:68) Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [ACTOR] ./clutter-actor.c:1183: Realizing actor 'ClutterStage' [0x28010] Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [ACTOR] ./clutter-actor.c:1183: Realizing actor 'ClutterStageEGL' [0x29018] Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:86: Realizing main stage Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:0 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:0 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:4 G:4 B:4 A:4 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:0 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:5 G:6 B:5 A:0 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:0 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE ClutterEGL - [BACKEND] clutter-stage-egl.c:147: EGLConfig == R:8 G:8 B:8 A:8 S:8 Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [LAYOUT] ./clutter-actor.c:4523: Width request for -1,00 px Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [LAYOUT] ./clutter-actor.c:4594: Width request for 640,00 px Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB CRITICAL ** ClutterEGL - Unable to create an EGL surface Sep 5 10:24:57 Nokia-N900-37-0 test-text[4858]: GLIB MESSAGE Clutter - [PAINT]
Re: [clutter] Clutter 1.0 in maemo fremantle
Hi, JiangWei Zhou wrote: when you run the test-actors test app, does it produce the same output? it seems in clutter , it cannot create the egl window surface. use |*eglGetError *|to check the error code ,which is not correct. i think this may help you to find the cause. Yes, I get the same output from the test-actors test (the only difference is that test-actors exits shortly after the error occurs, while test-text loops forever). For both tests the error code is 0x3005, EGL_BAD_CONFIG. I'll try to investigate a bit more. Ciao, Alberto -- http://www.mardy.it - geek in un lingua international! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 08:01, ext-mox.so...@nokia.com wrote: However, if you want to have the exact same user experience as the preinstalled Maemo 5 applications have (as seen in all youtube videos and the SDK), then you have much easier time and faster development with the gtk-based hildon widgets in Maemo 5. This doesn't give much of a transition plan for developers, or the chance to fix things in the Qt API whilst it's in community support mode. It's unclear who, exactly, the Qt community who are doing the support are. Is it people like David Greaves (lbt) and others at http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ or is it Kate and other people at Nokia? Presumably, with Fremantle (almost) out, people at Nokia are now working on Harmattan and the transition to Nokia supported for Qt. Is this being done in the open? Is the Harmattan UI going to be similar enough that the concepts (app menus etc.) are translatable? If so, presumably Nokia are going to need an app menu API; and it seems perfectly reasonable that we should be seeing it sooner rather than later. There's a lot of confusion in this thread, and it risks fueling FUD about the stability and viability of Fremantle as a platform if - when developers are starting writing Fremantle apps - they can't see where the platform is going in 1-2 years. The equivalent of Hildon (i.e. mobile, finger optimized widgets) is roughly the QT mobility http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/QtMobility, which is not available yet. So that raises some obvious questions: * When _is_ it going to be available? * Will it be available for Fremantle? * Will it provide a seamless experience with Hildon on Fremantle? Most of that page is talking about high-level services APIs (multimedia, contacts, location etc.). What if I just want to write a simple calculator app? Thanks in advance, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [clutter] Clutter 1.0 in maemo fremantle
JiangWei Zhou wrote: you may remove the EGL_STENCIL_SIZE, 8 from the egl config list and try again. i just wonder it may cause this problem. but in our target, there is no such problem. Mmmm... the more I play with egl the less I understand how it works. The call to eglChooseConfig() changes the configs variable, and puts in the first element of the array a configuration in which R, G, B, and A are all 8 bits (which presumably are not supported, because AFAIK on the N900 X starts on 16 bit mode). Anyway, commenting out the call to eglChooseConfig makes things go slightly better: eglCreateWindowSurface() succeeds. But then the context creation fails, with error EGL_BAD_CONFIG again. If I remove the attributes parameter and just pass NULL there, then it still fails but the error code is 0x3001, i.e. EGL_NOT_INITIALIZED. Any hints on what to try now? Ciao, Alberto -- http://www.mardy.it - geek in un lingua international! ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [clutter] Clutter 1.0 in maemo fremantle
Update:
Alberto Mardegan wrote:
JiangWei Zhou wrote:
you may remove the EGL_STENCIL_SIZE, 8 from the egl config list
and try again.
i just wonder it may cause this problem. but in our target, there is
no such problem.
I checked the source code of clutter-0.8 in maemo, and with that
attribute list it worked. Then I try to remove the differences one by
one, to reduce them to the minimum: strangely enough, the problem is in
specifying EGL_{RED,GREEN,BLUE}_SIZE. Removing them from the attributes
array make the whole things work.
I guess I won't submit a patch for it, as the change is maemo-specific:
I cannot see any reason why specifying those sizes would break the thing.
Anyway, I'm happy to announce that I got clutter 1.0 and clutter-gtk
0.10 to work fine in maemo fremantle. I'll create a project in
garage.maemo.org and upload the packages as soon as I've cleaned them up
a bit. :-)
Thanks for your support!
Alberto
--
http://www.mardy.it - geek in un lingua international!
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Re: Asking for developers and user support for a N900 application
On Friday 04 September 2009 20:12:00 Andrew Flegg wrote: will test your screen scraping processes (he says, doing *lots* of screen scraping for other things). I did something similar for my phone, though a bit differently - my operator allows free service requests (say, *121#) to obtain account info. Initially I also wanted to use the web interface, but it was always changing in the background (even if it wasn't really visible in the browser) and these small modifications made it difficult (=cumbersome, requiring constant updates) to keep it working. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?
From: maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org [maemo-developers-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of ext Andrew Flegg [and...@bleb.org] Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:47 AM To: Soini Mox (EXT-Movial/Helsinki) Cc: maemo-developers@maemo.org Subject: Re: New apps for fremantle with Qt? On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 08:01, ext-mox.so...@nokia.com wrote: However, if you want to have the exact same user experience as the preinstalled Maemo 5 applications have (as seen in all youtube videos and the SDK), then you have much easier time and faster development with the gtk-based hildon widgets in Maemo 5. This doesn't give much of a transition plan for developers, or the chance to fix things in the Qt API whilst it's in community support mode. Let's once again get back to the roots. There is no one-to-one parity between Qt and Hildon widgets but same functionality can be done with both of them. Mox sees a big problem that there are some composite widgets missing and you need to build them from several Qt basic widgets. I don't see it as much problem at all because Qt does make much more compact code and things are easily doable. We in qt4.garage.maemo.org have been concentrating more to fundamental issues that were not easily doable with plain Qt like input method, maemo-style integration, finger kinetic scroll or some hildon dependent window manager properties etc. Because there are several persons that see missing of some ready made composite widgets as big problem, we should also do some solution to this even it is not complicated at all. It's unclear who, exactly, the Qt community who are doing the support are. Is it people like David Greaves (lbt) and others at http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ or is it Kate and other people at Nokia? Maemo qt port has been done from beginning in full open source fashion anyone can participate open project and anyone can offer support as free or for charge an for any open source software. We have several persons that are Nokia employees, who are doing work with this Qt, we just do it as open. About this supported status, we have plan to to clarify situation in maemo summit. Presumably, with Fremantle (almost) out, people at Nokia are now working on Harmattan and the transition to Nokia supported for Qt. Is this being done in the open? Is the Harmattan UI going to be similar enough that the concepts (app menus etc.) are translatable? We are telling more about Harmatan UI much advance before releasing actual device. There will be also presentations about Harmatan subject in maemo summit. If so, presumably Nokia are going to need an app menu API; and it seems perfectly reasonable that we should be seeing it sooner rather than later. There's a lot of confusion in this thread, and it risks fueling FUD about the stability and viability of Fremantle as a platform if - when developers are starting writing Fremantle apps - they can't see where the platform is going in 1-2 years. We have tried to release key information much advance. First story about Harmatan and Qt was told in LinuxTag 2008, that more than one year from this date. Maemo Qt project were also published as garabe project around same time. We did first Fremantle releases of Qt together with alpha SDK . The equivalent of Hildon (i.e. mobile, finger optimized widgets) is roughly the QT mobility http://labs.trolltech.com/page/Projects/QtMobility, which is not available yet. We have finger optimized widgets already. We did not like to make something different than Hildon but rather we took Hildon style and adapted it to widgets. Then we added missing features listed above. So that raises some obvious questions: * When _is_ it going to be available? * Will it be available for Fremantle? * Will it provide a seamless experience with Hildon on Fremantle? You should rather think Qt Mobility as parallel track. Once again, we have finger friendly basic widgets. About some composite widgets mentioned earlier to get exactly same look and feel layout should be same than Hildon and that's not a problem. You don't need Qt mobility to make Qt apps with Hildon look and feel. Most of that page is talking about high-level services APIs (multimedia, contacts, location etc.). What if I just want to write a simple calculator app? If you would like to write simple calculator app, you just need basic widgets like buttons, labels, text entries, containers etc. We have all of them and they are using Hildon style. You will have exactly same look and feel as you have with GTK The discussion about missing widgets has been has been about some composite widgets like picker button that you can compose from dialog, scrollabele list and buttons. Kate ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
RE: New apps for fremantle with Qt?
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 08:01 However, if you want to have the exact same user experience as the preinstalled Maemo 5 applications have (as seen in all youtube videos and the SDK), then you have much easier time and faster development with the gtk-based hildon widgets in Maemo 5. This doesn't give much of a transition plan for developers, or the chance to fix things in the Qt API whilst it's in community support mode. Before people start jumping into long term conclusions, I'd rather encourage people to start documenting to wiki.maemo.org, what is known about QT in Maemo 5 and build a better understanding collectively there. I don't know about QT any more than what is publicly informed. Which is very little. Lets move from the guesswork here to documenting what is really known to wiki. Big thanks to Kate for the clarifying post. I'm sorry I misunderstood the purpose of QT mobility. Seems it's not about widgets, but about platform components like Contacts and Services. I would caution against too easily dismissing Hildon Pickers as trivial composites that app developers can implement. At least in Hildon widgets, Claudio, Berto and others have spent huge amount of time to get the pickers work just right. You can see it yourself in the hildon git changelog. The combobox in Linux desktops is pretty much a subset of the hildon pickers (in terms of funtionality, not directly in terms of actual UI elements). So if pickers would be trivial, then why would there be a need to provide a combobox in the standard toolkit? I managed to finally get a QT app running (qt-maemo-example from fremantle extras-devel). Based on that experience, I updated the QT wiki page at: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon#Limitations I hope you guys will make additions and corrections to there, so we have more information easily available. Thanks! Mox ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
