Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The Ukrainian and Russian far right
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Both sides in the Ukrainian civil war harbour unsavoury right-wing forces - pan-Slavic separatists yearning for the old Tsarist Empire in the east and overt fascist admirers of the Hitler in the western provinces. But the Ukrainian far right, particularly its armed formations like the Azov battalion profiled below (see link), plays an outsized role in Ukrainian military and political affairs and represents a threat to the conservative Petroshenko government in Kiev unlike any comparable movement on the Russian side. The Putin government is autocratic but still popular in Russia for having restored economic growth and a semblance of military power, while anti-fascist and pro-Soviet sentiments have been embedded in the Russian political culture since the Great Patriotic War. By contrast, the Ukrainian economy continues to crumble and the population is increasingly frustrated by the new government’s failure to subdue the rebellion in the east despite the loss of much blood and treasure. In much of the country outside the industrialized Donbass, anti-Russian feelings run high, and those who fought with the pro-Nazi Bandera forces in western Ukraine are celebrated as national heroes. Conditions in Ukraine are coming perilously close to resembling those in Germany in 1918, when embittered veterans of the First World War returned home to become the shock troops of the Nazi party in the doomed Weimar republic. The issue may yet become whether the pro-Western government installed in Kiev earlier this year will be able to contain their contemporary Ukrainian counterparts. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] The Ukrainian and Russian far right
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == On 9/13/14 7:37 AM, Marv Gandall via Marxism wrote: Conditions in Ukraine are coming perilously close to resembling those in Germany in 1918, when embittered veterans of the First World War returned home to become the shock troops of the Nazi party in the doomed Weimar republic. The issue may yet become whether the pro-Western government installed in Kiev earlier this year will be able to contain their contemporary Ukrainian counterparts. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis Let me repeat a point I have made before. You need to keep a sense of proportion. The Azov Brigade has 300 members. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28329329) It is the poster child for those trying to stigmatize EuroMaidan, just as Privy Sektor and Svoboda were 4 months ago. Probably the best thing for Ukraine right now is to maintain a ceasefire so that class struggle can begin to trump this ethnic trap entirely of the Kremlin's making. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Roger Goodell is a Domestic Violence Enabler Who Must be Stopped
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == There are 56 instances of domestic violence described below since Roger Goodell became NFL Commissioner (September 2006-present). Of those 56 instances, players were suspended for a combined 13 games (not including Rice's indefinite suspension, which cannot be quantified). Out of 56 instances, only 10 players were released by their team. Roger Goodell is a domestic violence enabler who must be stopped. full: http://sidespin.kinja.com/roger-goodell-is-a-domestic-violence-enabler-who-must-b-1632385955 Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: After the Ceasefire « LRB blog
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == (Go to link below to see links that document the points enumerated below.) http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2014/09/12/omar-hamilton/after-the-ceasefire-2/ On 26 August a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas was agreed, bringing a fragile end to a war that killed 2150 Palestinians (mostly civilians) and 73 Israelis (mostly soldiers). Since then Hamas has not fired a single rocket, attacked an Israeli target, or done anything to break the terms of the ceasefire. Israel has done the following: 1. Annexed another 1500 acres of West Bank land 2. Seized $56 million of PA tax revenue 3. Not lifted the illegal blockade (as required by the ceasefire) 4. Broken the ceasefire by firing at fishermen on four separate occasions 6. Killed a 22-year-old, Issa al Qatari, a week before his wedding 7. Killed 16-year-old Mohammed Sinokrot with a rubber bullet to the head 8. Tortured a prisoner to the point of hospitalisation 9. Refused 13 members of the European Parliament entry into Gaza 10. Detained at least 127 people across the West Bank, including a seven-year-old boy in Hebron and two children, aged seven and eight, taken from the courtyard of their house in Silwad – and tear-gassed their mother 11. Continued to hold 33 members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in prison 12. Continued to hold 500 prisoners in administrative detention without charge or trial 13. Destroyed Bedouin homes in Khan al Ahmar, near Jerusalem, leaving 14 people homeless, and unveiled a plan to forcibly move thousands of Bedouin away from Jerusalem into two purpose-built townships 14. Destroyed a dairy factory in Hebron whose profits supported an orphanage 15. Destroyed a family home in Silwan, making five children homeless 16. Destroyed a house in Jerusalem where aid supplies en route to Gaza were being stored 17. Destroyed a well near Hebron 18. Set fire to an olive grove near Hebron 19. Raided a health centre and a nursery school in Nablus, causing extensive damage 20. Destroyed a swathe of farmland in Rafah by driving tanks over it 21. Ordered the dismantling of a small monument in Jerusalem to Mohamed Abu Khdeir, murdered in July by an Israeli lynch mob 22. Continued building a vast tunnel network under Jerusalem 23. Stormed the al Aqsa mosque compound with a group of far right settlers 24. Assisted hundreds of settlers in storming Joseph’s Tomb in Nablus 25. Prevented students from entering al Quds University, firing stun grenades and rubber bullets at those who tried to go in 26. Earned unknown millions on reconstruction materials for Gaza, where 100,000 people need their destroyed homes rebuilt. The total bill is estimated at $7.8 billion Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] The Shiite ISIS that the US/Iran war on Iraq is backing
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Say Hello to America’s New Friends! Leave a reply (Or rather, the members of Obama’s new grand “coalition” that he isn’t telling you about). http://unfetteredfreedom.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/say-hello-to-americas-new-friends/ Since the Sunni rebel forces swept from the Iraqi province of Anbar to take control of huge swathes of Northern Iraq and beyond, the US has been engaged in a mad scramble to shore up their rapidly collapsing influence in Iraq, and in the region at large, for that matter. Or rather, influence that was deliberately sacrificed as a result of Obama’s obsessive desire to reach an accord with Iran, at the expense of the people of the region (especially the Syrian people) and the interests of the US. The Iraqi “army” proved to be a complete and utter paper tiger; owing more allegiance to money, sectarian hatred and Saddam-era Ba’athists (in the case of the high ranking officers) than it did to the Iraqi nation. This of course, generally tends to happen when your “army” has marginalised at least 35% of the population via sectarian policies, genocidal mass murder, barrel bombing their homes, and other charming methods. As Sunni resistance forces rapidly advanced, the army fell apart in a cowardly, disheartened, bureaucratic heap. Men took off their boots and uniforms and fled as soon as opposition fighters turned up, the commanders abandoned their men to whatever fate (or actively supported the insurgents), and the civilian population was left to fend for itself, leaving communities like the Yazidi minority under siege, and resulting in the mass slaughter of anyone deemed to be an opponent of ISIS. ISIS are only a fraction of the Sunni rebels, and still are (the vast majority are locals who have taken up arms, and Sunni tribal fighters, all sick of Baghdad’s oppression) but committed the most atrocities by far. Maliki, the US, and Iran have frequently and disgracefully blanketed all the Sunni rebels as ISIS without question, which is far from the truth. The advance was only finally halted at the gates of Baghdad, and not by the Iraqi “army” either, but by the troops of the Iranian quds force, led by the ruthless Qassem Soleimani. The utter failure of the Iraqi army was also partly compounded by deliberate sabotage by prime minister Nouri al-Maliki, under intense pressure to give up his seat. He deliberately withdrew his forces from the borders with Saudi Arabia and Syria in order to aid ISIS’ advance, his troops purposely left behind large amounts of heavy weapons for ISIS to take… In short, he used a classic tactic of Bashar al-Assad: create and/or empower extremist opponents in order to gain international support. Now, after months of wrangling, and the horrific slaughter of two brave American journalists (James Foley and Steven Sotloff) at the hands of ISIS, Obama has decided to do what America does best. Sod reaching out to the Sunni community to build a less sectarian Iraqi government and gain them some national empowerment (disenfranchised Sunnis are a big part of ISIS’ rise), sod addressing the fact that various dictators who are allegedly “fighting terrorism” are actually empowering ISIS in an attempt to gain his support, and definitely sod risking the lives of ISIS hostages. Lets just throw bombs at them and hope that they’ll go away. To that end, he is building up an array of allies in order to fight ISIS, both from the air and on the ground. He will bombard ISIS from the air, and other anti-ISIS factions will follow up by taking the battle to them on the ground, retaking lost territory and giving much-needed breathing space for the Iraqi (or rather, the Shiite) forces to regroup. A large coalition has been formed, containing an impressive array of nations, including several Arab states There’s a problem though, with many of the allies that Obama is now working with in the fight against ISIS. Namely, the fact that the men he is blowing up ISIS to embolden (or rather, blowing up any Sunni unfortunate enough to stand in their way) happen to be vicious sectarian killers responsible for the mass-murder of thousands of Sunni civilians since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and a significant number of US soldiers too. Namely, the vicious Shiite militias, the “special groups“, which emerged during the power vacuum left behind by the invasion. Under the previous administration, the Americans (at least partially) realised their mistake: that by removing Saddam, evil and disgusting as he was, they had removed a huge bulwark against Iranian influence in the region. With his viciously anti-Iranian regime in the dustbin, Khamenei and Soleimani saw their chance. They created, funded, and armed vicious sectarian
[Marxism] Fwd: Syria Comment » Archives ISIS Is Weaker Than It Looks, By Balint Szlanko - Syria Comment
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The bottom line is that while ISIS looks strong, it really isn’t as strong as its fearsome reputation suggests. It is an organised, highly motivated guerrilla group with lots of experienced fighters. It builds on the weaknesses of its enemies by sending its highly mobile, quick-moving forces to places where they are least expected, uses suicide bombers as just another battlefield tool, and it magnifies the fear created by its shocking brutality with effective publicity. And now it has also got a significant amount of heavy weapons and armour, captured from the Iraqis, plus an influx of men, some from disenchanted Syrian rebel groups, some from Sunni tribes and other Iraqi insurgent group. It also has a lot of money, some from robbery, some from kidnappings and some from protection rackets. And yet ISIS have only really been successful in areas where it faced no serious resistance: in the political and military vacuum of the Sunni heartland, in eastern Syria and central and western Iraq. Its significant battlefield successes have really only been against disorganized and undermotivated enemies, such as the Iraqi Army or Syria’s disparate rebels, or isolated outposts of the Syrian Army, under siege for a very long time. Whenever it had to confront a determined and organised adversary, such as the Kurdish YPG in northeastern Syria, it has always been bested. Even Syria’s ragtag rebels managed to kick it out of northwestern Syria early this year, though that was before its big Iraqi victories and associated growth in strength. The same thing is likely to happen now, if only because launching surprise attacks against largely undefended cities is very different from defending the large geographic area it now controls against coordinated attacks (and the U.S. Air Force). full: http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/isis-weaker-looks-balint-szlanko/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Fwd: Altina | Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Altina Schinasi, the subject of the documentary “Altina” that opened yesterday at the IFC in New York, was like Peggy Guggenheim—a member of the Jewish haut bourgeoisie who opted for a bohemian life in the arts. full: http://louisproyect.org/2014/09/13/altina/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == And this idiot had the nerve to beg Ralph Nader not to run. He is finally eating his words. http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams- obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/gary. maclennan1%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/ernestleif%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lause got it right. The first time Obama ran, the customary leafy-headed white liberals on my job were all wetting their pants with delight. A black fellow union brother said he didn't think Obama could win. When I asked how come he said, Because he's got a black wife. Perhaps some white radicals need to go through some experiences, whatever that means. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sep 13, 2014 3:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] Ecuador: WikiLeaks exposes how US sought to stop democratic process
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == This is the fourth part of a seven-part series look at about 1000 WikiLeaks cables not reported onin English before from the US Embassy in Quito. It focuses on US intervention and push to block the contituent assembly to dradft a new, more democratic and progressive constitution. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/57362 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] After Six Years and a Quarter Million Hits: The Rustbelt’s Top Twenty Posts
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == New Post: After Six Years and a Quarter Million Hits: The Rustbelt’s Top Twenty Posts http://rustbeltradical.wordpress.com/2014/09/14/after-six-years-and-a-quarter-million-hits-the-rustbelts-top-twenty-posts/ The Rustbelt Radical has been around since 2008, with a couple of years of minimal activity. I never set out to promote the blog or have ambitions other than to have a place to occasionally write, communicate, rant or share. Even though the blog has been dormant of and on, I am proud of the well over 500 posts that I have produced. I am not proud of each post; of course, many – most- weren’t my best. But some of them I am quite proud of. Coincidentally, many of those I am most proud of are also those that have been most popular on the blog over the years. On the occasion of getting 250,000 hits, and returning from a longish absence, I thought I would share the top posts, in order of popularity, on the Rustbelt over the years with readers. Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Marxism] New Zealand: Dirty tricks rocks elections, Mana challenges status quo
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == New Zealand goes to the polls on September 20. Amid a big scandal of government “dirty tricks”, the Mana Movement http://mana.net.nz/ is pushing the interests of the working-class and Maori communities. Mana was formed when firebrand Maori Party MP Hone Harawira split over the Maori Party's support for a right-wing National Party government in 2011. It brings together militant Maori activists with other working-class and left forces. It has joined forces with the Internet Party https://internet.org.nz/, founded by Internet businessperson Kim Dotcom, to form the Internet Mana ticket for the September 20 elections. Polls show it is on course to win at least three seats. *Joe Carolan* is the Internet Mana candidate for Mt Albert in Auckland. He is also an organiser for the Unite Union and a member of Socialist Aotearoa. He spoke to *Stuart Munckton* on New Zealand's elections and Internet Mana's campaign. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/57363 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == What did I mean that Afro Americans had to go through the experience of a black presidency? The answer seems obvious to me. The class always has to learn and often the hard way through experience. I do not live in the USA of course and so cannot speak from direct experience, but I would hazard the guess that Afro-Americans are probably still rusted on to Obama and will remain loyal to the end. I have no criticisms of that- comprendre est tout pardonner. What I do criticize, is the continued fostering of the noxious illusion that there is a progressive moment left in the Democratic Party. Hopefully the experience of the Obama presidency may have hastened the end that particular delusion. Without wishing to strike a far left note, it seems to me that the deep structure of Moore's criticism of Obama is that a progressive Democratic President is still a possibility. I would hold that it is not. comradely Gary On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:55 AM, Thomas via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Lause got it right. The first time Obama ran, the customary leafy-headed white liberals on my job were all wetting their pants with delight. A black fellow union brother said he didn't think Obama could win. When I asked how come he said, Because he's got a black wife. Perhaps some white radicals need to go through some experiences, whatever that means. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sep 13, 2014 3:28 PM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == The trouble is that, in America, there are no lessons learned that aren't rather thoroughly lost in the tsunami of media that accompanies then and later washes out. I put Obama less on the black community than the white silly shits who saw supporting him as a means of expiating guilt. After all, I think Obama would hardly have been the first choice for African Americans, while he was certainly the ideal first black president for the whites. ML Sent from my Windows Phone From: Ernest Leif via Marxism Sent: 9/13/2014 9:55 AM To: Mark Lause Subject: Re: [Marxism] Fwd: Michael Moore Slams Obama: All He’ll Be Remembered for Is ‘First Black President’ | Mediaite == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Is an odd statement. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure Black America needs to go through BHO, as much as the US needs to move on from structural racism. Years from now we'll still find blacks defending the man against antediluvian ideologues - for the record I don't think this is entirely a good thing - but what many non-black radicals still fail to understand, and sometimes it boggles my mind, is that most of us still identify first with race, and second with class. There is no mass party or organization around these days to help flesh out these particular American complexities. Until that comes along... On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 4:24 AM, Gary MacLennan via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: == Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == Well I am more optimistic than this. I like to feel that the future is Red and that Obama will be remembered for the right-wing con artist that he is. Perhaps Afro-America had to go through this experience. Just like many women in America may have to go through the experience of having a woman president. Or maybe gay America will have to go through the experience of having an openly gay president. I hope not. I hope Obama is remembered for teaching all of us that It's the class war, stupid. comradely Gary Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at:
[Marxism] France: Left Front debates ‘uniting the people’ vs ‘uniting the left’
== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. == About 200 activists from France’s Left Front gathered in Paris on Saturday 6 to discuss the group’s future. The Left Front’s future has been in limbo over the past few months after disagreements about strategy led to a weak performance in the European and local council elections in May. The meeting took place at a time of controversy in French politics. Socialist Party (PS) President Fancois Hollande had sacked the cabinet and appointed a new one — the second time since the start of the year — and the far-right National Front (FN) topped the presidential polls for the first time. On top of this, Jean-Luc Melenchon, the leader of the Left Party that is one of main groups in the Left Front, stood down as Left Front co-president. Melenchon announced he would soon launch a new Movement for a Sixth Republic. https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/57369 -- “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man Under Socialism “The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
