[meteorite-list] (AD) trade offer
Goodmorning list.I have a 719 gram very sculpted canyon diablo for trade.When you turn it over it looks like the st. louis arch.I am looking for stones,maybe eucrites or howardites.Let me know off list. steve Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] website GONE
No Matteo- you just no longer have a customer with your attitude. Mike --- M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: whe have another Mike Famer --- Mike Groetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Matteo- You are a very spitefull person. It is a shame for someone that should be trying to build some respect on this list. Mike Groetz --- M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deo Gratias...for who not know latin its Thanks God... Matteo --- steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: To all who purchased from my last meteorite sale,a huge thanks.The website is GONE,like I said it would.All purchases and trades are all going out today,so again thanks.Also a HUGE apology to all on this list for the misgivings of all this posts to advertise my sales.There is nothing left to sell.The rest of anything else is on ebay.And just a side note,I wish anyone who likes to do PUBLIC attacks on this list please keep it private.NO ONE LIKES PUBLIC ATTACKS.For some reason some people think that everything here needs to be aired.NO MORE!! Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420k for $1,399/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ruben and Son find 425 meteorite specimens in one day!!
Hi All, Thanks to everyone who emailed both on and off list to offer congratulations. My son and I have been reading all the emails together. He is very excited. Many emails asked about whether or not we would be selling any of our new find. The answer is, not until we know for sure what we have. Thanks again, Ruben Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - November 28, 2006
http://spacerocksinc.com/November_28.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dig Turns Up Little At Mysterious Newport Tower *except for a meteor ite)
Mark wrote: Good work there, well done taking the time to go see the site...Do you know if they do any kinds of tests other then a visual like a streak test, magnet test, etc., etc.? Hello Mark, Well, I'm only 30 minutes from the site, so no big deal getting there. Besides, the Newport Tower has been called the most enigmatic structure in North America, so visiting the first dig allowed there in 60 years was a must for me, since I've long been interested in the mystery of it's origin. Everyone involved wanted to see a Viking sword emerge from the ground, but that never happened. As for the mystery stone, it was actually found by accident when one of the students working there ran a magnet through dirt taken from a 2000-3000 BP level. They were not screening or paying attention to that level, as it long predates the tower, but the student didn't realize it and used a magnet in a search for metal artifacts, and up popped the stone. I was certainly disappointed that I was unable to examine it. On the other hand, that probably spared me the task of being the one to tell them that's no meteorite. I didn't want to find myself in that position, since by then the stone was their most exciting find. Many people from this list had written them, and at least one listmember suggested a monetary value for the stone!! So now the people at ASU can make the call. Best wishes, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dig Turns Up Little At MysteriousNewport Tower *except for a meteorite)
Hi all - They were not paying attention to that level This gets my blood pressure up. While from what I read, the excavators were constrained by time and weather, given the uniqueness of the site, they should have been paying attention. good hunting, Ed Man and Impact in the Americas --- Charlie Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark wrote: Good work there, well done taking the time to go see the site...Do you know if they do any kinds of tests other then a visual like a streak test, magnet test, etc., etc.? Hello Mark, Well, I'm only 30 minutes from the site, so no big deal getting there. Besides, the Newport Tower has been called the most enigmatic structure in North America, so visiting the first dig allowed there in 60 years was a must for me, since I've long been interested in the mystery of it's origin. Everyone involved wanted to see a Viking sword emerge from the ground, but that never happened. As for the mystery stone, it was actually found by accident when one of the students working there ran a magnet through dirt taken from a 2000-3000 BP level. They were not screening or paying attention to that level, as it long predates the tower, but the student didn't realize it and used a magnet in a search for metal artifacts, and up popped the stone. I was certainly disappointed that I was unable to examine it. On the other hand, that probably spared me the task of being the one to tell them that's no meteorite. I didn't want to find myself in that position, since by then the stone was their most exciting find. Many people from this list had written them, and at least one listmember suggested a monetary value for the stone!! So now the people at ASU can make the call. Best wishes, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dig Turns Up Little At Mysterious Newport Tower *except for a meteorite)
Elton wrote: We don't know what it is so it must be a meteorite, implying we on the dig are all knowing except for what we don't know otherwise. Hello Elton, Actually, Ron Barsted told me he based his visual identification on having seen and handled hundreds of meteorites at the Tucson Show every year. I've never been to the Tucson Show, but if I'd had the chance to examine the find, any visual ID I could make would have been based on handling hundreds of meteorites over 20 years. I don't know how much of an advantage that makes, but I agree that the photos alone indicate it is not a nickel-iron. Thanks for checking this out Charlie but a point of caution. The Academic types don't like (ahem..) Amateurs telling them anything that could threaten their proclamations. When you got to the part of about cutting and donating the 20% part I am sure they tuned you out. Well, over the years I've certainly run into that attitude many times, Elton. On the other hand, I'm very slightly removed from amateur status, being published in Native American petroglyph studies, among other archaeological subjects. So it's possible I was shown more respect that might otherwise have been the case. But I very much doubt it. The dig organizers made it quite clear to me that their only interest was in doing the right thing, including the 20% donation. Further, it was their hope that the city of Newport would eventually display the find at the headquarters of the Newport Historical Society. Odds are, of course, that it's a meteorwrong, since it's hard to beat the odds. But they were very happy to see me and happy to have heard from other listmembers. It will be up to ASU to give them the good or bad news. It would be a first for Rhode Island, so I'm hoping they beat the odds. Best wishes, Charlie __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Was: Meteorite novels -gifts II New Topics title- Meteorites and Archaeology
Dear Doug, You mentioned the Navajo. The Dene (Navajo) didn`t arrive New Mexico and the American Southwest until around 1500AD; and it has been proposed that the demise of the Puebloan (Casas Grande) culture MAY have been contributed to by their arrival. http://www.lapahie.com/Timeline_to_1491.cfm Casas Grande pre-dates their arrival. You may do a Web search for more information beyond this link: http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31id_site=560 Best, Dirk...Tokyo --- MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments -- I re-read my post, your words and by all means did take one comment very much to heart. I'm guilty as charged for not giving further consideration to other meteoritically interested cultures between those Germanic and ancients. I think Ed would be the better expert in that department on this side of the Atlantic. You speak of the Aztecs as a culture with as rich of a treatment of things meteoritic as the medieval traditions in your lands... I'd like to know more about that. I'd be interested in knowing what meteorites the Aztecs venerated, feared, deified, or imbued with magical qualities. Are you perhaps thinking of Xocotl the Aztec god of fire and Dark and occult side of planet Venus? I think he was more likey born spewn from a volcano, of which there are many in his territory, or as legend goes, a ball of feathers fell in a temple his virgin mother then bore him and others. So Xocotl's mother may have been fertilized by a meteorite in a stretch of faith (the feathers could be thought of as cometary)...but these are much further musings than others I've made:-) Maybe your reference is meant to consider the over 1.5 ton Casas Grandes Iron meteorite mummy found in the ruins of the temple of a mysterious peoples of Mexico and carted out to Philadelphia, USA. I say mysterious peoples as I don't think you can call them Aztecs with certainty, and they may actually be somewhat Navajo. Unfortunately, the information on that culture is so scant, circumstantial and too inconclusive. But the Casas Grandes meteorite had fallen tens of thousands of years before that region was populated. Thus, at best, one can imagine that it was appreciated for its heft and unique nearly indestructable properties. The reason I'm not sure we can call that culture Aztec, is because the business end of the great Aztec empire was generally disconnected and geographically no where near the southern limits of that mysterious culture, to make tribute payments to the empire. In fact, it seems to just mysteroiusly vanished without battle before the Spanish first appeared anywhere on the scene. There is contentious speculaion that that particular culture was from northern New Mexico near Colorado, and Ed may be able to add more on that subject. It seems to me they were their own independent culture eventually centered in Paquimé, Chihuahua, very close to El Paso TX - Juarez MX, where the meteorite was dug up. Hopefully we can learn more, but anything new will be an uphill battle the way the evidence is so limited and thus dominated more by speculations. I am not aware of too much shared divinity evidence though a minimal amount is no doubt common. The the next meteoritic thing in my neck of the desert, sitting above the northern tip of Mesoamerica, I can mention are the few tektites found way down in the ancient Mayan city of Tikal - but that would be in Guatemala already. These unique chards which are mysteries themselves as no more paired have been found after extensive scientific field work and study, and they are generally Chicxulub era mintage. What surprises me, is not the great deal of evidence of meteorites in the Aztec and Mayan cities, but rather the lack of it. I really would have thought more references, stonework or carvings could have been passed along. We're talking about a culture with debatably sophistiated astronomers and celestial timekeepers rivaling the Europeans and Arabs during periods in their history. I'd be very interested to be reminded if I have missed any mythology here even with the destruction here that has ensued there has been a great deal of stoneworks preserved and I am unaware of meteorites and comets showing on any of them despite the observatories and sophistication. Martin, I appreciate your kind humility regarding the historical record of Germanic accomplishments. I wasn't referring to your Grimms' tale, but rather the Grimms' Star Money which I posted the other day. On the other hand the accomplishments of Chinese, Arab, and Japanese, among others certainly survived in some shapes and forms and deserve a more important mention than I foolishly brushed by at 4:00 AM. I think though you've assumed a bit too much about my thoughts of rites
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II
Hi, Doug, Hijacking your nice thread again... The tektites in Tikal didn't find their way there by any other means than falling out of the sky. They have been found in the temples, anciently collected, and one much more degraded one has been found in the forests surrounding. Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right into the upper end of the dating spread for Australite/ Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look just exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. Tikal's antipodal point is on the western edge of the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an Ivorite was recovered from off shore of the Australian coast. equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think the currents carried it there -:) laughing... Casa Grande was found in 1867: A mass of 3407lb was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was presented to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First Description, W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill (1913). Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)... Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite collecting by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one about Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on to discuss dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites including Casa Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote METEORITE COLLECTING AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS in 1938. That paper can be found at: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W but it's where no mere mortal without official access can view it... You can read the first page, though, which is enough to see that it covers much the same ground as the paper previously cited (up above this one) which you can get to see (and download). Handing the thread back to you, Doug. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II Whe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments -- I re-read my post, your words and by all means did take one comment very much to heart. I'm guilty as charged for not giving further consideration to other meteoritically interested cultures between those Germanic and ancients. I think Ed would be the better expert in that department on this side of the Atlantic. You speak of the Aztecs as a culture with as rich of a treatment of things meteoritic as the medieval traditions in your lands... I'd like to know more about that. I'd be interested in knowing what meteorites the Aztecs venerated, feared, deified, or imbued with magical qualities. Are you perhaps thinking of Xocotl the Aztec god of fire and Dark and occult side of planet Venus? I think he was more likey born spewn from a volcano, of which there are many in his territory, or as legend goes, a ball of feathers fell in a temple his virgin mother then bore him and others. So Xocotl's mother may have been fertilized by a meteorite in a stretch of faith (the feathers could be thought of as cometary)...but these are much further musings than others I've made:-) Maybe your reference is meant to consider the over 1.5 ton Casas Grandes Iron meteorite mummy found in the ruins of the temple of a mysterious peoples of Mexico and carted out to Philadelphia, USA. I say mysterious peoples as I don't think you can call them Aztecs with certainty, and they may actually be somewhat Navajo. Unfortunately, the information on that culture is so scant, circumstantial and too inconclusive. But the Casas Grandes meteorite had fallen tens of thousands of years before that region was populated. Thus, at best, one can imagine that it was appreciated for its heft and unique nearly indestructable properties. The reason I'm not sure we can call that culture Aztec, is because the business end of the great Aztec empire was generally disconnected and geographically no where near the southern limits of that mysterious culture, to make tribute payments to the empire. In fact, it seems to just mysteroiusly vanished without battle before the Spanish first appeared anywhere on the scene. There is contentious speculaion that that particular culture was from northern New Mexico near Colorado, and Ed may be able to add more on that subject. It seems to me they were their own independent culture eventually centered in Paquimé, Chihuahua, very close to El Paso TX - Juarez MX, where the meteorite was dug up. Hopefully we can learn more, but anything new will be an uphill battle the way the evidence is so limited and thus dominated more by speculations. I am not aware of too much shared divinity evidence though a minimal amount is no doubt common.
Re: [meteorite-list] New Topics title- Meteorites and Archaeology... was novels
Hola Sterling, Got the handoff, shall I make it to all the 9 yards' lineHardly a hijacking since a detailed analysis of War Peace was kindly left to the scholars:-) Wow, Sterling, Nice catch, I had never read far enough into the Tikal tektites to find that they had been shown distinct from the K/T boundary material, thanks for the correction. The fact that the were transported there with source unknown was enough to turn me off about pursuing it - and it is too easy for the sloppy reader to assume a Chicxulub relationship due to the proximity. I now wonder if the tektites were truly paired, or can be paired, to any Indochinites. But the concept of import from Asia or Oceania is TOTALLY COOL, especially if you've every made the journey to Tikal as I did (before knowing about the tektites' find unfortunately), you'll definitely agree that it is not a likely place for things to appear. Something like a Mayan version of Tarzan and the Lost City comes to mind. Saludos Dirk and thanks for the kind comments below... what you mention of the Navajo's possible role in the disappearance of the Casas Grandes culture could make perfect sense in a parallel way. Just a minor clarification, and that is that it is not certain that the Casas Grandes culture which had the big iron meteorite excavated from the Paquime temple were any more Puebloan than the were Aztec - though both elements have been argued. There are currently no exclusive answers to that question of origin, which makes it nicely mysterious...The confusion here arises in that the Arizona locality Casa Grande is a different locality from the Northern Mexico locality of Casas Grandes. The are sufficiently geographically close that you still could be right, though in the Mexican Casas Grandes case is more probably not a pure Puebloan race than something different and independent. And their building styles were similar, only there were just lots more houses in Paquime...! (hence Casas Grandes vs. the singular ?? :-)) Thanks for the links. Best wishes, Doug Dirk kindly wrote: Dear Doug, You mentioned the Navajo. The Dene (Navajo) didn`t arrive New Mexico and the American Southwest until around 1500AD; and it has been proposed that the demise of the Puebloan (Casas Grande) culture MAY have been contributed to by their arrival. http://www.lapahie.com/Timeline_to_1491.cfm Casas Grande pre-dates their arrival. You may do a Web search for more information beyond this link: http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31id_site=560 Best, Dirk...Tokyo Sterling wrote: Hi, Doug, Hijacking your nice thread again... The tektites in Tikal didn't find their way there by any other means than falling out of the sky. They have been found in the temples, anciently collected, and one much more degraded one has been found in the forests surrounding. Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right into the upper end of the dating spread for Australite/ Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look just exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. Tikal's antipodal point is on the western edge of the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an Ivorite was recovered from off shore of the Australian coast. equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think the currents carried it there -:) laughing... Casa Grande was found in 1867: A mass of 3407lb was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was presented to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First Description, W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill (1913). Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)... Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite collecting by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one about Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on to discuss dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites including Casa Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote METEORITE COLLECTING AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS in 1938. That paper can be found at: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W but it's where no mere mortal without official access can view it... You can read the first page, though, which is enough to see that it covers much the same ground as the paper previously cited (up above this one) which you can get to see (and download). Handing the thread back to you, Doug. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II Whe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments -- I re-read my post, your words and by all
Re: [meteorite-list] (AD) trade offer
buy 7 days ago on ebay? --- steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Goodmorning list.I have a 719 gram very sculpted canyon diablo for trade.When you turn it over it looks like the st. louis arch.I am looking for stones,maybe eucrites or howardites.Let me know off list. steve Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels-gifts: Hopewell meteorites
Hi Sterling, What may be an Iroquoian tradition of the Brenham impact is given in Man and Impact in the Americas (available through amazon.com). I am glad that organic samples were taken for radio-carbon dating in Steve Arnold's hunt. I am sure that the physics of that impact have been analyzed, but I don't know if a concise description of the appearance of that small impact has ever been written up. My guess is that one will probably be part of the television special. As I mentioned earlier, the Hopewell - Cherokee, Shawnee - value meteorites. I mentioned Mooney's reports of the Cherokee meteorite trade earlier, and I note here that the Shawnee have a rather elaborate vocabulary for celestial phenomenon. When you consider the astronomical function of Hopewell ring structures, this should come as no surprise. Note that some of the meteorites were found beaten into sheets, and near mica - these were mirrored surfaces, and as I mentioned earlier, polished iron slices, particularly from North American meteorites, will find good trade value from artisans at powwow. Fire starting irons are valued as well today, and this is pretty generally held. good hunting, Ed Man and Impact in the Americas --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Doug, Hijacking your nice thread again... The tektites in Tikal didn't find their way there by any other means than falling out of the sky. They have been found in the temples, anciently collected, and one much more degraded one has been found in the forests surrounding. Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right into the upper end of the dating spread for Australite/ Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look just exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. Tikal's antipodal point is on the western edge of the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an Ivorite was recovered from off shore of the Australian coast. equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think the currents carried it there -:) laughing... Casa Grande was found in 1867: A mass of 3407lb was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was presented to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First Description, W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill (1913). Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)... Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite collecting by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one about Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on to discuss dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites including Casa Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote METEORITE COLLECTING AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS in 1938. That paper can be found at: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W but it's where no mere mortal without official access can view it... You can read the first page, though, which is enough to see that it covers much the same ground as the paper previously cited (up above this one) which you can get to see (and download). Handing the thread back to you, Doug. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II Whe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments -- I re-read my post, your words and by all means did take one comment very much to heart. I'm guilty as charged for not giving further consideration to other meteoritically interested cultures between those Germanic and ancients. I think Ed would be the better expert in that department on this side of the Atlantic. You speak of the Aztecs as a culture with as rich of a treatment of things meteoritic as the medieval traditions in your lands... I'd like to know more about that. I'd be interested in knowing what meteorites the Aztecs venerated, feared, deified, or imbued with magical qualities. Are you perhaps thinking of Xocotl the Aztec god of fire and Dark and occult side of planet Venus? I think he was more likey born spewn from a volcano, of which there are many in his territory, or as legend goes, a ball of feathers fell in a temple his virgin mother then bore him and others. So Xocotl's mother may have been fertilized by a meteorite in a stretch of faith (the feathers could be thought of as cometary)...but these are much further musings than others I've made:-) Maybe your reference is meant to consider the over 1.5 ton Casas Grandes Iron meteorite mummy found in the ruins of the temple of a mysterious peoples of Mexico and carted
[meteorite-list] Mars Global Surveyor Image of the Week - November 27, 2006
MARS GLOBAL SURVEYOR Image of the Week November 27, 2006 The following new image taken by the Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) on the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft is now available: o Dust-Mantled Olympus Mons Flows (Released 27 November 2006) http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2006/11/27 Image Caption: Dust-covered lava flows on the lowermost south flank of Olympus Mons are captured in this 3 kilometers (1.9 miles) wide Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) view acquired during northern summer on 12 October 2006. One leveed lava channel just south (below) the center left of of the image disappears into a thick, pitted and cratered dust mantle. Sunlight illuminates the scene from the left/upper left. The image is located near 13.8N, 134.1W. North is toward the top/upper right. All of the Mars Global Surveyor images are archived here: http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/index.html Mars Global Surveyor was launched in November 1996 and has been in Mars orbit since September 1997. It began its primary mapping mission on March 8, 1999. Mars Global Surveyor is the first mission in a long-term program of Mars exploration known as the Mars Surveyor Program that is managed by JPL for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS) and the California Institute of Technology built the MOC using spare hardware from the Mars Observer mission. MSSS operates the camera from its facilities in San Diego, CA. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Surveyor Operations Project operates the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft with its industrial partner, Lockheed Martin Astronautics, from facilities in Pasadena, CA and Denver, CO. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Images
http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/0779/ The Planetary Society Weblog By Emily Lakdawalla New Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Images November 27, 2006 Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter HiRISE imaging team gave us all a gift: the release of 31 new images from the transition phase of MRO's operations at Mars. This is a new data set so it's going to take a little getting used to. The images are magnificent in their scale and detail but that creates problems -- they're enormous files, and difficult to handle unless you've got a pretty souped-up computer. My computer is not particularly souped-up, unfortunately. Whenever I manage to beg and plead and whine a new computer out of Lou, I don't have a lot of money to spend, and I always spend what I've got to get the highest-resolution screen available. Which means I make sacrifices in memory, hard drive space, and processing speed. So I'm having a tough time handling these monster images. The HiRISE team recognizes that this is a problem for people and are working on developing some online viewing tools that will enable visitors to view the full-resolution data without having to download and manipulate files that are hundreds of Megabytes in size. In the meantime, though, if you want to see the details, you have to put your modem and your computer to some serious work. It's doable, but painful. The pain's worth it in the end -- just scroll down to see for yourself. Here's what you need to do. First, clean off your hard drive to make space for a couple of gigs of image data, especially if (like me) your chosen image viewing software is Photoshop. Photoshop employs the hard drive as a scratch disk to save intermediate versions of images -- the undo levels -- so you need to leave a few gigs of space free on your drive at all times to keep the software happy. You don't, however, need Photoshop to view these images; HiROC suggests the use of a JPEG2000 viewing browser plug-in called ExpressView http://www.lizardtech.com/download/dl_options.php?page=plugins, which is free and easy to download and install. To open the JPEG2000 images in Photoshop, I needed to download and install a Photoshop plug-in to handle these files, which I got here http://www.leadtools.com/Utilities/PSPlugIn/PhotoShop_plug-in.htm. I'm sure there are other PhotoShop plug-ins available. Having prepared my computer, I can now get down to the business of poring over the incredible details in the HiRISE pictures. This one looked pretty cool: Eos Chasma Olivine (TRA_000835_1670) http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/TRA/TRA_000835_1670/, and moreover, it was a relatively petite 29 Megs to download. The click-to-enlarge version below shows the area at 1/8 its full resolution, or 4 meters per pixel. HiRISE Image of the wall of Eos Chasma This image was captured during the Transitional Phase of Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter's operations at Mars. It covers an area of about 5,500 by 3,200 meters and shows the steep walls and dune-filled canyons of Eos Chasma, part of the Valles Marineris system. The scene is illuminated from the west. Source http://hiroc.lpl.arizona.edu/images/TRA/TRA_000835_1670/ Credit: NASA / JPL / U. Arizona I wasn't disappointed by the detail visible in the full resolution version. I picked out two cool spots to show you at their full resolution. Here's a context photo showing where the two detailed views are: Eos Chasma as seen by HiRISE: Context map for detail images Credit: NASA / JPL / U. Arizona The first one shows sand dunes in the floor of the canyon. Look at all the beautiful different shapes that the dunes make as a result of what must be fairly capricous winds rounding the corner of the topographic high that comes in from the lower right. At the toe of the topographic high, at the lower center of the image, you can see a few boulders that have fallen down the cliff. At a few pixels across, they're on the order of 1 to 10 meters across -- the size of cars or trucks. Sand dunes within Eos Chasma This detail from a HiRISE image of Eos Chasma, Mars, is shown at its full resolution of 50 centimeters per pixel. A field of sand dunes on the left breaks into a variety of forms as it moves around a topographic high to the lower right (southeast). The entire image covers an area only 250 meters square, roughly the size of a football stadium. Credit: NASA / JPL / U. Arizona The next detail shows a beautiful fan-shaped debris deposit. The debris fan is made of lighter-toned material -- possibly closer in size and composition to the bright wall rocks -- than the dark stuff that makes up the sand dunes filling the canyon floor on the left. Debris fan within Eos Chasma This detail from a HiRISE image of Eos Chasma, Mars, is shown at its full resolution of 50 centimeters per pixel. A fan of debris cascades down a narrow canyon from southeast to northwest. The entire image covers an area only 250 meters square, roughly the size of a football
[meteorite-list] New Horizons Gets First Glimpse of Pluto
http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/news_center/news/112806.htm New Horizons, Not Quite to Jupiter, Makes First Pluto Sighting November 28, 2006 The New Horizons team got a faint glimpse of the mission's distant, main planetary target when one of the spacecraft's telescopic cameras spotted Pluto for the first time. The Long Range Reconnaissance Imager (LORRI) took the pictures during an optical navigation test on Sept. 21-24, and stored them on the spacecraft's data recorder until their recent transmission back to Earth. Seen at a distance of about 4.2 billion kilometers (2.6 billion miles) from the spacecraft, Pluto is little more than a faint point of light among a dense field of stars. But the images prove that the spacecraft can find and track long-range targets, a critical capability the team will use to navigate New Horizons toward 2,500-kilometer wide Pluto and, later, one or more 50-kilometer sized Kuiper Belt objects. Mission scientists knew they had Pluto in their sights when LORRI detected an unresolved point in Pluto's predicted position, moving at the planet's expected motion across the constellation of Sagittarius near the plane of the Milky Way galaxy. Pluto appears in all three images of that region of space LORRI photographed on Sept. 21 and Sept. 24, confirming that it was real and not a cosmic ray or other object. For further confirmation, the object moving along Pluto's predicted path in the sky has a visual magnitude (brightness) a little brighter than 14, just what could be expected from Pluto at that time and that distance from New Horizons. To analyze the images for their moving target, the team actually pulled a page out of Clyde Tombaugh's Pluto discovery book, stroboscopically switching between multiple images of the same area taken days apart. Using this technique, objects such as stars appear stationary, but moving targets, such as a planet, are easily seen jumping between positions against the star field. Finding Pluto in this dense star field really was like trying to find a needle in a haystack, says New Horizons Principal Investigator Alan Stern, of the Southwest Research Institute. Clyde Tombaugh would have been proud because the LORRI team had to use the same technique that served him so well in discovering Pluto, but because LORRI produces digital images, they could avoid all the messy chemicals Clyde needed to develop the photographic plates! LORRI, designed and built by the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL), is crafted to obtain images at the highest possible resolution from the longest possible distance. This latest optical navigation test simulated the conditions under which LORRI will be required to find a Kuiper Belt object (and potential flyby target) as New Horizons approaches Pluto. LORRI passed this test with flying colors, because Pluto's signal was clearly detected at 30 to 40 times the noise level in the images, says New Horizons Project Scientist Hal Weaver of APL. Those of us who calibrated LORRI on the ground and in flight are not surprised to see what it can do, but we are mighty grateful that LORRI has survived launch and its first several months in space without any loss of performance, says LORRI Principal Investigator Andy Cheng, of APL. We'll have to wait until early 2015 for LORRI to return better views of Pluto than have ever been seen before. In the meantime, we're looking forward to viewing the marvels of the Jupiter system this coming January and February. Just beyond the Jupiter encounter, Stern says, the team will use LORRI to begin collecting valuable data on Pluto itself. We won't get useful science out of these first detections of Pluto, he says. But during the next several years of approach, we'll use LORRI to study Pluto's brightness variation with our angle to the Sun to build a 'phase curve' we could never get from Earth or Earth orbit. This will allow us to derive new information about Pluto's surface properties even while we are still far away. The Long Range Reconnaissance Imager (LORRI) on New Horizons acquired images of the Pluto field three days apart in late September 2006, in order to see Pluto's motion against a dense background of stars. LORRI took three frames at 1-second exposures on both Sept. 21 and Sept. 24. Because it moved along its predicted path, Pluto was detected in all six images. These images are displayed using false-color to represent different intensities: the lowest intensity level is black, different shades of red mark intermediate intensities, and the highest intensity is white. The images appear pixilated because they were obtained in a mode that compensates for the drift in spacecraft pointing over long exposure times. LORRI also made these observations before operators uploaded new flight-control software in October; the upgraded software package includes an optical navigation capability that will make LORRI approximately three times more sensitive still than for these Pluto
[meteorite-list] Europe Joins Hunt For Missing Mars Probe
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10669-europe-joins-hunt-for-missing-mars-probe.html Europe joins hunt for missing Mars probe David Shiga New Scientist 28 November 2006 NASA has called on the European Space Agency's Mars Express spacecraft to look for the missing Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) after the Opportunity rover failed to locate it by listening for its radio beacon. The 10-year-old MGS was last heard from on 5 November. It reported problems re-pointing one of its solar power arrays shortly before going silent (see NASA struggles to contact lost Mars probe http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10498). NASA called on its Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) to try to take pictures of MGS on 17 and 20 November. But the images did not reveal the spacecraft, perhaps because MGS had shifted in its orbit since last contact (see Mars probe probably lost forever http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10638-mars-probe-probably-lost-forever.html). After MRO failed to spot the spacecraft, NASA turned to its Opportunity rover to continue the search. Opportunity listened for MGS's radio beacon on 21 and 22 November, but heard nothing. Roving search All these failed attempts do not necessarily mean MGS is dead, says the spacecraft's manager Thomas Thorpe of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, US. The antenna that transmits the signal is on one side of MGS, and that may or may not have been pointed at Mars when we passed over the rover, he told New Scientist. The radio beam from MGS's antennas is about 60° wide, giving only about a 1 in 6 chance of it reaching the rover, since MGS's orientation is unknown. Opportunity's roving twin, Spirit, will try to detect the beacon, too. But Spirit is just emerging from its winter hibernation and will not have enough power to spare for this task until a few weeks from now, Thorpe says. Pass in the night In the meantime, the European Space Agency (ESA) is joining the search: We've asked the Mars Express people to take an image of MGS with their High Resolution Stereo Camera, Thorpe says, adding that the Mars Express HRSC team had agreed to make the attempt. They have not set a date for this attempt, but the earliest opportunity is on 7 December 2006, when the two spacecraft should come within 400 kilometres of each other. Even though random drift of the spacecraft has led to uncertainty in its position, the field of view of Mars Express's HRSC is wide enough to include the entire area that the spacecraft could be in, Thorpe says. MRO is just beginning its science observations and is too busy to continue hunting for MGS, he says. But if Mars Express can locate MGS, then a case could be made for a second imaging attempt with MRO, which has the only camera powerful enough to reveal the orientation of the spacecraft and the position of its solar panels, Thorpe says. This information would help engineers to diagnose and perhaps solve the problem that is preventing the spacecraft from communicating with Earth. Points of light The MRO images taken on 17 and 20 November did show two extra points of light that did not correspond to any of the stars expected in the field of view. There had been speculation that these points of light were two pieces of MGS - perhaps the main body of the spacecraft and a broken-off solar panel. Thorpe says that scenario is unlikely, however. If those blips were real, they were in two very different orbits, so it's pretty unlikely that both could have come from the spacecraft, he says. It remains possible that one of the points of light is MGS, but they are too dim to draw any firm conclusions, he says. One or both could just be instrument noise, perhaps the result of cosmic rays hitting the camera, he says. While other probes search for MGS, NASA is beaming commands to it from Earth every day in the hope of reviving it. The agency has been trying various ways of commanding it to turn on its low gain antennas, and also ordering it to rotate in the hope of getting them pointed closer to Earth. But the spacecraft has remained stubbornly silent despite these efforts. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Another Bright Light Seen Over Australia
http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,20840321%255E421,00.html Residents report bright light in sky at Ballarat Townsville Bulletin (Australia) November 29, 2006 FOR the second night in a row residents in western Victoria have reported seeing a bright light in the sky. Residents at Ballarat, west of Melbourne, said they saw something that looked like a UFO after spotting an orange coloured light in the sky about 10pm (AEDT) yesterday. The object hovered for more than one minute. But one resident said it could have been a model helicopter. A lot of guys fly night choppers here and they have the LCD lights around the blades and they have lights all down the boom and tail rotor, the man, identified only as Ian, told Southern Cross Broadcasting. These models can hover and they can go from zero to about 100km/h in a few seconds. On Monday night, people in South Australia and western Victoria deluged police and media with reports of a spectacular meteor sighting. Police in SA said they took calls from just after 8pm (ACDT) on Monday from Renmark and Loxton in the Riverland, most Adelaide suburbs and then from people living south of the city, with reports of something looking like a fireball in the sky. In Victoria, callers to ABC Radio from Bendigo to Horsham in the state's north-west down to Colac in the south-west, reported seeing a bright green coloured object shooting westward in the sky. An SA Police spokesman said later that the Bureau of Meteorology confirmed the object seen on Monday night was a meteor. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Papers About Permian Mass Extinctions
Dear Friends, Two recent papers, which are coauthored by Dr. Greg J. Retallack and discuss the Permian mass extinction, have been recently published. They are: Retallack, G.J. and Krull, E.S. 2006. Carbon isotopic evidence for terminal-Permian methane outbursts and their role in extinctions of animals, plants, coral reefs and peat swamps. In Greb, S. and DiMichele, W.A., Editors, Wetlands through time. Special Paper of the Geological Society of America. vol 399, p 249-268. The 3 MB version of the above paper can be downloaded from: http://www.uoregon.edu/~gregr/Papers/Ragnarok2.pdf This paper provides a very detailed discussion of what he and his coauthors argued caused the Permian mass extinction. Also, there is: Retallack, G.J., Greaver, T., Jahren, A.H., Smith, R.M.H., Sheldon, N.D., and Metzger, C.A., 2006, Middle-Late Permian mass extinction on land. Geological Society of America Bulletin. vol. 118, p. 13981411. The 1.5 MB version of the above paper can be downloaded from: http://www.uoregon.edu/~gregr/Papers/Mid-Late%20Permian%20extinction.pdf The above Geological Society of America Bulletin paper is interesting because, they recognize two distinct and separate geologically abrupt mass extinctions on land. One of these occurs at the end of the Middle Permian (Guadalupian) at 260.4 Ma and a later one occurring with the Permian Period at 251 Ma. Both of these correspond to previously recognized marine mass extinctions. He is quite skeptical of the Permian mass extinctions as having been related to any asteroid or comet impact. Other papers coauthored by Greg J. Retallack, which are related to the Permian extinction can be found at: http://www.uoregon.edu/~gregr/publications.html They include: Retallack, G.J., Jahren, A.H., Sheldon, N.D., Chakrabarti, R., Metzger, C.A., and Smith, R.M.H., 2005. Permian-Triassic boundary in Antarctica. Antarctic Science 17, 241-258. The PDF file for this paper can be found at: http://www.uoregon.edu/~gregr/Papers/PTAntarctica.pdf Yours, Paul Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad - Super Auctions Ending in Two Hours!
Dear List Members, I have several excellent auctions ending this afternoon representing some great bargains. This week, I loaded some slightly larger specimens and still kept the opening bid at just 99 cents. You will also find Qty 14 single kilogram unclassified bulk lots at a fraction of the price the Moroccans are now asking. As a matter of fact, I am starting these out below my costs in order to clear out my storage area. I only have 14 kilograms left out of the 65 plus kilograms I loaded last week so they are going fast. After these are gone, only a few suppliers will be left and when their stockpiles are exhausted, I expect the price to escalate rapidly. I also loaded Qty 2 single kilo lots of NWA 4293 but this time, the meteorites themselves are larger. There are plenty of specimens still at the 99 cent mark representing some true value! To see all of the too numerous to list outstanding auctions, click on this link. Several of these still have no bid and are at the opening price of just 99 cents so be sure to check them out: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZraremeteorites Check out some of these highlights: NWA 1694, LOW TKW CK3 crusted part slice: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055964994 A CK4 currently at $1.00 a gram: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055978512 Last Piece of NWA 2711, A Unique and Fresh Mesosiderite: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055979631 A real Chassignite fragment still just 99 cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055980490 NWA 2918 CO3.0, As good as it gets still extremely low priced: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055982526 NWA 2999 The Angrite, The Real Deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055984087 A Gorgeous Brachinite from the worlds largest specimen: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055992389 A Beautiful part slice of the new Granulitic Lunar Meteorite. The price is still ridiculously low so you may want to check it out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140055994844 WIGGED Sikhote Alin - 360 Degree Flow Lines - Awesome! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=40056008911 A 200-PLUS Gram Sikote Alin with a HOLE Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140056010651 NEW ITEM, A Lunar Pendant Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140058386543 AWESOME SMB Complete Slice started at Just 99 Cents: hhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140058387684 Qty 2, NWA 4293 Lots Left with Larger Pieces: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140058389853 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140058390189 Oriented Stony with Frothing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140058391173 And don't forget to check out the several dozen bulk unclassified lots and other great items at this link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZraremeteorites Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Study Finds that a Single Impact Killed the Dinosaurs
http://munews.missouri.edu/NewsBureauSingleNews.cfm?newsid=12264 University of Missouri-Columbia News Release Contact: Katherine Kostiuk Sr. Information Specialist 573-882-3346 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Study Finds that a Single Impact Killed the Dinosaurs Data supports the single-impact theory in a controversial discussion November 28, 2006 COLUMBIA, Mo. - The dinosaurs, along with the majority of all other animal species on Earth, went extinct approximately 65 million years ago. Some scientists have said that the impact of a large meteorite in the Yucatan Peninsula, in what is today Mexico, caused the mass extinction, while others argue that there must have been additional meteorite impacts or other stresses around the same time. A new study provides compelling evidence that one and only one impact caused the mass extinction, according to a University of Missouri-Columbia researcher. The samples we found strongly support the single impact hypothesis, said Ken MacLeod, associate professor of geological sciences at MU and lead investigator of the study. Our samples come from very complete, expanded sections without deposits related to large, direct effects of the impact - for example, landslides - that can shuffle the record, so we can resolve the sequence of events well. What we see is a unique layer composed of impact-related material precisely at the level of the disappearance of many species of marine plankton that were contemporaries of the youngest dinosaurs. We do not find any sedimentological or geochemical evidence for additional impacts above or below this level, as proposed in multiple impact scenarios. MacLeod and his co-investigators studied sediment recovered from the Demerara Rise in the Atlantic Ocean northeast of South America, about 4,500 km (approximately 2,800 miles) from the impact site on the Yucatan Peninsula. Sites closer to and farther from the impact site have been studied, but few intermediary sites such as this have been explored. Interpretation of samples from locations close to the crater are complicated by factors such as waves, earthquakes and landslides that likely followed the impact and would have reworked the sediment. Samples from farther away received little impact debris and often don't demonstrably contain a complete record of the mass extinction interval. The Demerara Rise samples, thus, provide an unusually clear picture of the events at the time of the mass extinction. With our samples, there just aren't many complications to confuse interpretation. You could say that you're looking at textbook quality samples, and the textbook could be used for an introductory class, MacLeod said. It's remarkable the degree to which our samples follow predictions given a mass extinction caused by a single impact. Sedimentological and paleontological complexities are minor, the right aged-material is present, and there is no support for multiple impacts or other stresses leading up to or following the deposition of material from the impact. The impact of a meteorite on the Yucatan Peninsula likely caused massive earthquakes and tsunamis. Dust from the impact entered the atmosphere and blocked sunlight, causing plants to die and animals to lose important sources of food. Temperatures probably cooled significantly around the globe before warming in the following centuries, wildfires on an unprecedented scale may have burned and acid rain might have poured down. MacLeod and many other scientists believe that these effects led to the relatively rapid extinction of most species on the planet. Some other scientists have argued that a single impact could not have caused the changes observed and say that the impact in the Yucatan predates the mass extinction by 300,000 years. MacLeod's co-investigators were Donna L. Whitney from the University of Minnesota, Brian T. Huber from the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History and Christian Koeberl of the University of Vienna. The study was recently published in the 'in press' section of the online version of the Geological Society of America Bulletin. Funding was provided by the U.S. Science Support Program, the U.S. National Science Foundation and the Austrian Science Foundation. Samples were recovered on Leg 207 of the Ocean Drilling Program. -30- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Was: Meteorite novels -gifts II New Topicstitle- Meteorites and Archaeology
Hi, Dirk, Doug, List, That timeline is a great URL, a very detailed account of Dene history (and lots more); the source is from the documentation of one of the Dene lawsuits, so you know anything that could questioned by anybody was omitted. The earliest tree ring dates show the period 1350-1390 AD for settled structures. That implies an earlier entry into the area. Intruders, invaders, or new folk generally have to invade first, then settle; you don't build a house until you're secure in the area, so the intrusion date would be 1300-1350 AD. There was a major drought in the area in the years preceeding 1347 AD, at which time a number of major Pueblo communities were abandoned. By 1500, the Dene were settled in for a century or so. I know an anthropologist once who used to sing a song entitled, How Them Athabascan Bastards Made The Great Pueblos Fall, to the tune of The Wabash Cannonball. Like most made-up songs, it had a great many verses, few of which are printable in this forum. Wish I could remember them. Basic Rule of the 21st Century: you can find ANY THING you want on the Internet: http://archaeology.about.com/cs/entertainingarcha/a/athabastards.htm These verses are fairly sedate... And, completely off-topic, the analysis of Aztec history and politics on that timeline URL is brilliant. The Aztec homeland was supposedly in the nothern area, but since the Aztecs burned and re-wrote their own history for propaganda value, little is certain. A good source on Casas Grandes is: http://www.desertusa.com/ind1/ind_new/ind13.html No mention of the meteorite, though. Another good referrence that you can't get to: The Worship and Folk-Lore of Meteorites, by Farrington (1900): http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0021-8715(190007%2F09)13%3A50%3C199%3ATWAFOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3 No URL, Doug, just the referrence: MONNIG O.E. (1939): HOW THE CASAS GRANDES, CHIHUAHUA, MEXICO, METEORITE GOT TO WASHINGTON D.C., Popular Astron. 47, pp. 152-154. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Was: Meteorite novels -gifts II New Topicstitle- Meteorites and Archaeology Dear Doug, You mentioned the Navajo. The Dene (Navajo) didn`t arrive New Mexico and the American Southwest until around 1500AD; and it has been proposed that the demise of the Puebloan (Casas Grande) culture MAY have been contributed to by their arrival. http://www.lapahie.com/Timeline_to_1491.cfm Casas Grande pre-dates their arrival. You may do a Web search for more information beyond this link: http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31id_site=560 Best, Dirk...Tokyo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] valuable Nantan
Quite a price for a little Nantan http://cgi.ebay.com/Sygun-Museum-Nantan-Iron-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ130052231871 Stefan __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Archaeology and Meteorites
Dear Ed and List, Ed, I am sure the list would be interested in seeing your Table of Contents or excerpts from your book. This might also aid in more sales of your book. I have been looking for a review of your book; if you know of any reviews please let us know. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo I encourage Dr. Blakeslee, archaeologist from Kansas, a member of this list to join the discussion. --- E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sterling, What may be an Iroquoian tradition of the Brenham impact is given in Man and Impact in the Americas (available through amazon.com). I am glad that organic samples were taken for radio-carbon dating in Steve Arnold's hunt. I am sure that the physics of that impact have been analyzed, but I don't know if a concise description of the appearance of that small impact has ever been written up. My guess is that one will probably be part of the television special. As I mentioned earlier, the Hopewell - Cherokee, Shawnee - value meteorites. I mentioned Mooney's reports of the Cherokee meteorite trade earlier, and I note here that the Shawnee have a rather elaborate vocabulary for celestial phenomenon. When you consider the astronomical function of Hopewell ring structures, this should come as no surprise. Note that some of the meteorites were found beaten into sheets, and near mica - these were mirrored surfaces, and as I mentioned earlier, polished iron slices, particularly from North American meteorites, will find good trade value from artisans at powwow. Fire starting irons are valued as well today, and this is pretty generally held. good hunting, Ed Man and Impact in the Americas --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Doug, Hijacking your nice thread again... The tektites in Tikal didn't find their way there by any other means than falling out of the sky. They have been found in the temples, anciently collected, and one much more degraded one has been found in the forests surrounding. Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right into the upper end of the dating spread for Australite/ Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look just exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. Tikal's antipodal point is on the western edge of the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an Ivorite was recovered from off shore of the Australian coast. equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think the currents carried it there -:) laughing... Casa Grande was found in 1867: A mass of 3407lb was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was presented to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First Description, W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill (1913). Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)... Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite collecting by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one about Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on to discuss dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites including Casa Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote METEORITE COLLECTING AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS in 1938. That paper can be found at: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W but it's where no mere mortal without official access can view it... You can read the first page, though, which is enough to see that it covers much the same ground as the paper previously cited (up above this one) which you can get to see (and download). Handing the thread back to you, Doug. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II Whe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments -- I re-read my post, your words and by all means did take one comment very much to heart. I'm guilty as charged for not giving further consideration to other meteoritically interested cultures between those Germanic and ancients. I think Ed would be the better expert in that department on this side of the Atlantic. You speak of the Aztecs as a culture with as rich of a treatment of things meteoritic as the medieval traditions in your lands... I'd like to know more about that. I'd be interested in knowing what meteorites the Aztecs venerated, feared, deified, or imbued with magical qualities. Are you perhaps thinking of Xocotl the Aztec god of fire and Dark and occult
Re: [meteorite-list] Was: Meteorite novels -gifts II New Topicstitle- Meteorites and Archaeology
Hi Sterling, Dirk, Doug, List - Dirk's timeline never made it to me. While I did not cover Navajo or Hopi traditions or their archaeological sequences in Man and Impact in the Americas, I don't have a problem with Dene (Navajo) settlement at those times. The problem with the Athabascan Bastards hypothesis is that the pueblos were apparently under attack several hundred years earlier. Of course, given the Mushkogean traditions, there is an easy explanation available for this data. This might be academic, but how populations responded to climate changes in North America, and when those climate changes occured, are not exactly trivial questions. How did the Maunder Minimum affect North America? Dirk asks in another message about reviews. Well, some of the few people who have read my book think its pretty good. It is under review by NPS for carrying in their shops, but to say the least, recent impact events are controversial, at least for the time being. I'm sorry Man and Impact in the Americas does not include more meteorite lore, but there was other more essential information that needed to be covered in it. Without my stroke, my copy editors illness, and my production manager's father's death, many of the typos/errors in it would have been caught, and there would have been a lot more illustrations. I read or at least looked at a lot of what is out there while putting the book together, and in my opinion it is the finest single volume introduction available for the peoples east of the Mississippi River. At least a few other people agree. I did what I could. good hunting, Ed --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Dirk, Doug, List, That timeline is a great URL, a very detailed account of Dene history (and lots more); the source is from the documentation of one of the Dene lawsuits, so you know anything that could questioned by anybody was omitted. The earliest tree ring dates show the period 1350-1390 AD for settled structures. That implies an earlier entry into the area. Intruders, invaders, or new folk generally have to invade first, then settle; you don't build a house until you're secure in the area, so the intrusion date would be 1300-1350 AD. There was a major drought in the area in the years preceeding 1347 AD, at which time a number of major Pueblo communities were abandoned. By 1500, the Dene were settled in for a century or so. I know an anthropologist once who used to sing a song entitled, How Them Athabascan Bastards Made The Great Pueblos Fall, to the tune of The Wabash Cannonball. Like most made-up songs, it had a great many verses, few of which are printable in this forum. Wish I could remember them. Basic Rule of the 21st Century: you can find ANY THING you want on the Internet: http://archaeology.about.com/cs/entertainingarcha/a/athabastards.htm These verses are fairly sedate... And, completely off-topic, the analysis of Aztec history and politics on that timeline URL is brilliant. The Aztec homeland was supposedly in the nothern area, but since the Aztecs burned and re-wrote their own history for propaganda value, little is certain. A good source on Casas Grandes is: http://www.desertusa.com/ind1/ind_new/ind13.html No mention of the meteorite, though. Another good referrence that you can't get to: The Worship and Folk-Lore of Meteorites, by Farrington (1900): http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0021-8715(190007%2F09)13%3A50%3C199%3ATWAFOM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-3 No URL, Doug, just the referrence: MONNIG O.E. (1939): HOW THE CASAS GRANDES, CHIHUAHUA, MEXICO, METEORITE GOT TO WASHINGTON D.C., Popular Astron. 47, pp. 152-154. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Was: Meteorite novels -gifts II New Topicstitle- Meteorites and Archaeology Dear Doug, You mentioned the Navajo. The Dene (Navajo) didn`t arrive New Mexico and the American Southwest until around 1500AD; and it has been proposed that the demise of the Puebloan (Casas Grande) culture MAY have been contributed to by their arrival. http://www.lapahie.com/Timeline_to_1491.cfm Casas Grande pre-dates their arrival. You may do a Web search for more information beyond this link: http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31id_site=560 Best, Dirk...Tokyo __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com
Re: [meteorite-list] What is this?
Hi Sterling, I like your formation mechanism, but with a sudden lake drainage and not a rapid melting, but the problem here is that this stone was found in Moundsville, WVa. True this is on the Ohio River, but it still seems unusual, and clearly others thought so. You have glacial erratics up by Hagerstown, Md, so its entirely possible that one of the local valleys could have held a lake which drained suddenly, maybe even flowing down either Little or Big Grave Creek. While not a meteorite, perhaps it could have been an unusual stone collected or used long ago by the people living there, but its likely we'll never know for certain. good hunting, Ed --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This is a strictly two-cents-worth opinion, since I have a stone that is a twin to this one (at least, photographically) except that it is only the size of a very small ostrich egg: same shape, same smooth finish, shiny black and dense, not native to this limestone country I live in. It is no mystery. The glaciers brought it here, but then finished it off in the immense and violent outflow that poured forth when the Wisconsin glaciation melted rapidly. The prolate spheroid shape is produced by the stone spinning around its longest axis in the high-speed flow and grinding against everything else in the flow. River cobbles are just as smooth but irregular, even polygonal. But if you spin it fast enough, as the Mississippi must have flowed when it carved a 25-mile wide channel with 200-foot cliffs on either side, this is the shape you get. I found my little one in a gully about ten miles down from where the face of the glacier that sat on Illinois was. This gully wasn't any Mississippi, but I bet it was cut through the limestone in an hour or a day, like a Scablands channel. Or, maybe, it's a Thunderbird egg... Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What is this? Hi Jim - The remains at Moundsville are covered in my book Man and Impact in the Americas, and I have visited there several times, inclusing tracing the Grave Creek trade path. There was extensive Native American settlement in the entire area (map page 133 Man and Impact in the Americas). Most of the mounds were pretty well leveled by 1894, excepting the Main mound. I have not visited the other mound which you mention still exists. I'm sure that maps from 1894 would show active European cemeteries. These could be compared against Schoolcraft's map. The area was also very heavily industrialized by 1894, so some industrial object can not be excluded. Perhaps a buisness directory or town directory or some such would allow identification of the individual in the initials. Check with the genealogical section of the library in Moundsville. (PS - They have a copy of my book, available for free loan.) As I mentioned before, I've never seen anything like it. The WVA archaeologists someimes meet at the museum at the big mound, so you could stop by there and check when they will be meeting. Or you might try contacting them through the internet. What material is the object composed of? Ed --- Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ed.. I don't know how to take the name grave digger. I am guessing that is a polite way of saying that he dug into indian burrial mounds in the area. The initials, I am guessing, are of the finder since the 1894 corresponds to the year that it was supposedly found. There are no river rocks like that in this area. However, it has been suggested by another list member that it could be transported glacial rock. The glaciers stopped their advance along a line in Northern Ohio which is probably about 100 miles north of where this was found.Moundsville WV. There were several adena burial mounds in this area. Still are two. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs.
[meteorite-list] FW: Another Batch of Great Auctions Tonight Soon....
From: michael cottingham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:28 PM To: 'michael cottingham' Subject: AD: Another Batch of Great Auctions Ending Soon Hello, Please check out my Auctions ending soon, some real awesome pieces and their prices are still a bargin! Beautiful slice of Lahoma, L5 check the metal out on this specimen! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200049977594 28.59 gram specimen of an awesome new CV3 . http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050420121 A 105 gram endcut of a beautiful Mesosiderite! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200049978899 Check this classic Howardite out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200049980437 A very dreamy and beautiful piece of Gujba, worth a peak! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050411404 A 37 gram specimen of a NEW Pallasite, still real cheap! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050412958 NWA 2378, NEW H3.5, 43.20 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050421199 Check this R3.8, 12 gram slice out! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050422291 Rare Fall from Pakistan, MARDAN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050411404 Super Rare Naoki, witnessed fall from India! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200050466905 And many, many more great specimens. See all at: http://stores.ebay.com/Voyage-Botanica-Natural-History Click into auctions to see all that are ending soon! Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ceres: The Wet Look
http://skytonight.com/news/4765721.html Ceres: The Wet Look by J. Kelly Beatty Sky Telescope November 28, 2006 Last summer's vote by members of the International Astronomical Union elevated Ceres from being merely the largest member of the asteroid belt to a prime candidate for dwarf planet status. And from what astronomers have learned about it recently, Ceres is making a good case for that promotion. The most recent insights come from a trio of astronomers led by Andrew S. Rivkin (Applied Physics Laboratory), who examined the big asteroid's near-infrared spectral signature last year. Previous work had already established the presence of clay-like minerals that include water as part of their molecular structure. Rivkin's team has used the body's infrared fingerprint to refine the kinds of materials that might lie on its surface. The best candidates, he reported at a recent meeting of planetary scientists, are iron-rich clays that contain roughly 5% carbonates - just the kind of minerals that would form on what was once a wet surface. The new results follow on the heels of observations with the Hubble Space Telescope, conducted last year, that imply Ceres is more than just a rocky jumble. Peter C. Thomas (Cornell University) and others determined that the its slightly squashed shape and spin rate match what would be expected for a body that had differentiated (segretated) into a rocky core and a water-ice exterior. Only a thin rind of rock and dust may be hiding an icy layer 60 to 120 kilometers (40 to 80 miles) thick. And Hubble images are no longer the last word on Ceres' appearance. Last month a team of European researchers led by Benoit Carry (LESIA, France) released images of the asteroid taken four years ago with the Keck Observatory's powerful adaptive-optics camera. They find that Ceres has a smooth shape overall, slightly fatter across its midsection (481 km) than through its poles (447 km). According to Carry, the surface of Ceres displays a wealth of bright and dark markings, some of which might be due to regional differences in composition. All of this is whetting the appetite of scientists involved in Dawn http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/, a NASA spacecraft that narrowly avoided outright cancellation earlier this year. Now scheduled for launch next summer, Dawn will spend time orbiting both Ceres and Vesta, an equally intriguing asteroid. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] valuable Nantan
These auctions have been going on for some time now.Always campo or nantans,small specimens,large sale price,many bids and guess what! Bidders identity is kept private.Hum-Hummm !! I think i smell fish. Herman. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dig Turns Up Little At MysteriousNewport Tower *except for a meteorite)
E.P. Grondine and list, I certainly agree. Researchers often relegate strata unrelated temporally to a target component to the waste-heap of total irrelevance, often due to a progressively (regressively) narrowed perspective and/or lack of time/funds (weather? what a joke! temporary structures such as canopies can be built. This all should have been anticipated in that part of the world). I believe no irreversible, destructive excavation work (as if there is any other) should be undertaken without a research design accounting for all site formation processes, and not at all if an artifact-fetish motivates attitudes. Charcoal and other organics (if recovered at all) was discarded frequently during excavation before the advent of C14 dating, and lithic debitage, a highly informative artifact class, was largely ignored until the '70s. Thermally-affected rocks are usually only counted, weighed, and discarded in contemporary excavations. Invasive field archaeology is only maximally informative as a highly systematic recordation of a site that values tedious redundancy - statistical redundancy - and is not biased by a search or discovery of a people, culture, or other construct bound to one of many competing theories or in verifying (as opposed to falsifying - in the Popperian sense) a selected hypothesis. Archaeology is not ethnography. Populations utilizing the Newport Tower may have buried objects to extreme depth, overlooked because of age (not to mention also that chemical pedology is specifically and uniquely contingent on the presence of metals or organic remains not otherwise associated with each other - affecting precipitation in a predictable manner). We must anticipate revolutions in analytical field methods, which is to anticipate better analytical technologies as well as a more holistic awareness of physical conditions commanding the collection of data-sets often ignored in ordinary contexts. Very large hydrologic-geomorphological data-sets will be necessary to the the future of geoarchaeological research of Acheulian European sites, for example; most sites like this have been redeposited by Pleistocene alluvial process, but will be interpreted with much greater certainty as technology permitting fast, accurate mass data acquisition and physical analysis becomes inexpensive. If my reading is correct, some work at Newport Tower sounds like bad CRM archaeology, necessarily controlled by and preocuppied with issues like 'significance,' with time, money, and impetus always too limited. Better attention to chemical precipitates, if iron residues can be morphologically detected physically as discrete anomalies, may reveal traces of iron artifacts (perhaps only oxidizing into ostensive oblivion). It's all too expensive. Too bad we can't re-excavate. ... and students ... . I know of a student who, during the excavation of a California Archaic (Millingstone Horizon - La Jolla [San Marcos]), troweled right through a rare hearth feature in their 1x1m unit, and simply did not record or otherwise mention it. A sense of shame and regret motivated this action (rather a lack of action) once it was recognized that ANY damage had been done. Data still could have been collected from some in situ portion of the hearth. Error or inexperience of a student led to the inadvertent and auspicious discovery of an important object irrelevant to historical reconstruction. Carelessness due to inexperience and a lack of accountability led to incomplete chronostratigraphic calibration somewhere else. -Thaddeus Besedin (a student of geoarchaeology - pardon the false pedantry) E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all - They were not paying attention to that level This gets my blood pressure up. While from what I read, the excavators were constrained by time and weather, given the uniqueness of the site, they should have been paying attention. good hunting, Ed Man and Impact in the Americas --- Charlie Devine wrote: Mark wrote: Good work there, well done taking the time to go see the site...Do you know if they do any kinds of tests other then a visual like a streak test, magnet test, etc., etc.? Hello Mark, Well, I'm only 30 minutes from the site, so no big deal getting there. Besides, the Newport Tower has been called the most enigmatic structure in North America, so visiting the first dig allowed there in 60 years was a must for me, since I've long been interested in the mystery of it's origin. Everyone involved wanted to see a Viking sword emerge from the ground, but that never happened. As for the mystery stone, it was actually found by accident when one of the students working there ran a magnet through dirt taken from a 2000-3000 BP level. They were not screening or paying attention to that level, as it long predates the tower, but the student didn't realize it and used a magnet in a search for
Re: [meteorite-list] New Topics title- Meteorites and Archaeology... was novels
Hi Dirk, Doug - RE: Navaho and their role in the SW sequence: My book Man and Impact in the Americas covers Mushkogean traditions of their migrations, and events around Sunset Volcano. It's available for $34.95 from amazon.com, or send $35 to P.O. Box 158, Kempton, IL 60946 and I'll sign it for you and pick up the postage. good hunting, Ed --- MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola Sterling, Got the handoff, shall I make it to all the 9 yards' lineHardly a hijacking since a detailed analysis of War Peace was kindly left to the scholars:-) Wow, Sterling, Nice catch, I had never read far enough into the Tikal tektites to find that they had been shown distinct from the K/T boundary material, thanks for the correction. The fact that the were transported there with source unknown was enough to turn me off about pursuing it - and it is too easy for the sloppy reader to assume a Chicxulub relationship due to the proximity. I now wonder if the tektites were truly paired, or can be paired, to any Indochinites. But the concept of import from Asia or Oceania is TOTALLY COOL, especially if you've every made the journey to Tikal as I did (before knowing about the tektites' find unfortunately), you'll definitely agree that it is not a likely place for things to appear. Something like a Mayan version of Tarzan and the Lost City comes to mind. Saludos Dirk and thanks for the kind comments below... what you mention of the Navajo's possible role in the disappearance of the Casas Grandes culture could make perfect sense in a parallel way. Just a minor clarification, and that is that it is not certain that the Casas Grandes culture which had the big iron meteorite excavated from the Paquime temple were any more Puebloan than the were Aztec - though both elements have been argued. There are currently no exclusive answers to that question of origin, which makes it nicely mysterious...The confusion here arises in that the Arizona locality Casa Grande is a different locality from the Northern Mexico locality of Casas Grandes. The are sufficiently geographically close that you still could be right, though in the Mexican Casas Grandes case is more probably not a pure Puebloan race than something different and independent. And their building styles were similar, only there were just lots more houses in Paquime...! (hence Casas Grandes vs. the singular ?? :-)) Thanks for the links. Best wishes, Doug Dirk kindly wrote: Dear Doug, You mentioned the Navajo. The Dene (Navajo) didn`t arrive New Mexico and the American Southwest until around 1500AD; and it has been proposed that the demise of the Puebloan (Casas Grande) culture MAY have been contributed to by their arrival. http://www.lapahie.com/Timeline_to_1491.cfm Casas Grande pre-dates their arrival. You may do a Web search for more information beyond this link: http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31id_site=560 Best, Dirk...Tokyo Sterling wrote: Hi, Doug, Hijacking your nice thread again... The tektites in Tikal didn't find their way there by any other means than falling out of the sky. They have been found in the temples, anciently collected, and one much more degraded one has been found in the forests surrounding. Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right into the upper end of the dating spread for Australite/ Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look just exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. Tikal's antipodal point is on the western edge of the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an Ivorite was recovered from off shore of the Australian coast. equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think the currents carried it there -:) laughing... Casa Grande was found in 1867: A mass of 3407lb was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was presented to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First Description, W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill (1913). Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)... Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite collecting by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one about Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on to discuss dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites including Casa Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote METEORITE COLLECTING AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS in 1938. That paper can be found at: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W but it's where no mere mortal without official access can view it... You can read the first page, though, which is enough to see that it covers much the same ground as the paper previously cited (up
Re: [meteorite-list] valuable Nantan
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think i smell fish. Yeppers! shil-fish And why are these Nantans and Campos only found in museum quality? Where are the common ones? Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
