Re: Leica M but which one?
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you all for your thoughts. Will look at the links provided and certainly use other informations you gave. Hope I can manage to get this project real. As for film is dead as Godfrey says, I think not. But darkroom though might soon be indeed (what a pity). APX100 @ 2.5€ per film (36 shots) is nowhere near too expensive IMO. Um, APX100, like all Agfa films, was discontinued when Agfa divested the film business in 2004. A small company, Lupus I think, continues to produce a small amount of film under the AgfaPhoto label, after the AgfaPhoto venture declared bankruptcy in 2005. 2.5€ for 36 frames is about a US$ dime a shot for the media. Add processing costs, and time, scanning effort, and time ... and it's obvious that the only real reason to work with film is for the fun of it and to enjoy a couple of nice old cameras. I wouldn't exactly call that alive. ;-) Don't get me wrong: I love shooting with my Leica M, Rollei 35S, Nikon F, etc. Film has lovely and different imaging characteristics from digital capture. I'm happy that I still have a couple of dozen rolls of film in the freezer for my APS and Minox cameras, and kind of amused that I need to order another pro-pack or two of 35mm film since I am using the Leica enough to be worth it. But in any commercial sense, film is long dead. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
Thank you all for your thoughts. Will look at the links provided and certainly use other informations you gave. Hope I can manage to get this project real. As for film is dead as Godfrey says, I think not. But darkroom though might soon be indeed (what a pity). APX100 @ 2.5€ per film (36 shots) is nowhere near too expensive IMO. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Leica M but which one?
I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Digital I can't do without, but silver really is way more fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
If you're using film, forget about a meter with a Leica and learn the characteristics of Tri-X, Most of my shooting with the Spotmatic II and Tri-X was well beyond the metering capability of the camera. In fact the first time I had a camera who's meter was even close to as good as a trained eye was my LX. Heck man you're using film. By the way, since the resale value of used Leicas is pretty close to the purchase price, any good condition specimen that you buy is a bargain. You can probably sell it for nearly as much as you paid for it. Maybe more than you paid for it if you're lucky. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com wrote: I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Digital I can't do without, but silver really is way more fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
I bought both of my thread-mount Leicas on ebay. No problem if you only deal with people who have numerous sales and a 100% rating. If you buy a meterless Leica, you can get a meter that attaches to the flash shoe or use a handheld meter. A handheld incident meter is superior to most in-camera meters. The M4 is probably a good choice if price is important. It's also a nice camera. The thread-mount Leicas, like the IIIf and IIIc, are nice as well and quite affordable, but loading film is tricky until you get the hang of it. Paul On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Thibouille wrote: I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Digital I can't do without, but silver really is way more fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
Thank you. I was suspecting such an answer, and I admit I'm very happy with it :) Less money, and I'll be forced to train my meter so to say. May Kodak live long enough for my Tri-X needs. 2012/2/23 p. j. alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: If you're using film, forget about a meter with a Leica and learn the characteristics of Tri-X, Most of my shooting with the Spotmatic II and Tri-X was well beyond the metering capability of the camera. In fact the first time I had a camera who's meter was even close to as good as a trained eye was my LX. Heck man you're using film. By the way, since the resale value of used Leicas is pretty close to the purchase price, any good condition specimen that you buy is a bargain. You can probably sell it for nearly as much as you paid for it. Maybe more than you paid for it if you're lucky. On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com wrote: I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Digital I can't do without, but silver really is way more fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45, DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ KX, MX, SuperA+Motor, Z1, P30 Mamiya C330+80/2.8 Sekonic L-208 FalconEyes TE300D x2 Studio flashes Laptop: Macbook 13 Unibody SnowLeo/Win7 Programing: Delphi 2009 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Leica M but which one?
I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) I have an M3 and had an M4-2 for several years as well. There isn't much to choose between them. In your position I think the best thing to do would be buy whatever is least expensive and in decent user condition. I would not buy one of eBay because there are chop paste jobs out there and you have no comeback if you end up with a dog. I've bought all my Leica stuff from reputable dealers, and even so I once ended up with a real pig of a lens that I eventually threw in the bin. The principal differences between the different types of M are detailed in many places, but essentially come down to the number of framelines, viewfinder magnification, film loading system, ability to use a winder, and a couple of other things. M4-2s are less highly thought of than the German-made cameras, but frankly it doesn't really matter. With M3s there's a difference between 2-stroke and 1-stroke shutter levers (they're not petrol-driven, it's what you have to do to wind the film on). 1-stroke is easier to use. I agree with whoever suggested buying a meterless M. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
Light meters are for sissies. On Feb 23, 2012, at 10:21 AM, Thibouille wrote: I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) -- Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs -- Digital I can't do without, but silver really is way more fun. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Leica M but which one?
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com wrote: I slowly convinced myself I needed to try a Leica (was hard actually). I don't wanna try alternatives *before* the M, if the M is nice but doesn't justify the cost, I'll look into Voigtlander and such. So, fot those who indeed shot with an M, what should I look for? Buying new is out of the question, and, let's say a lens might get useful as well ;) An M4 seems affordable but no meter. M6 is pricey at about 1000 euros. Any well-maintained M is a thing of joy. but so are the Barnak Leicas. however, stick to the Ms as then you're looking at cameras from just the past 59 years, not the previous 31 as well. ;-) Of course, old Leicas are like any other old, mechanical thing: they are subject to the ills of old age and often need to be cleaned, repaired, and re-calibrated for reliable operation. The good news is that it's usually worth doing. Like others have suggested, I'd go for one without a meter. The M6 and later models with a meter are typically about 20-30% more money and pose more points of failure to repair if required. It's not hard to use a hand-held meter and often produces better results. Not considering the type I, II, III models, I've had nearly all the models up to the M6TTL ... M2, M3, M4-P, M4-2, M6, CL and M6TTL. Of them all, the M4-Ps were my favorites until I bought the M4-2 last September. The M4-2 was the first model with a hot shoe flash mount if that's important to you. Unless you fall in love with it, I'd avoid the M5. It's an unusual model that's bulkier and somewhat more problematic than the M4 which preceded it and the M4-2 which succeeded it. The CL is delightful–smaller and lighter than the Ms–but similarly often a bit problematic with regard to mechanical robustness and reliability. As a data point, I paid $720 for the M4-2 body in BGN condition from KEH.com. It needed a cleaning and recalibration of the rangefinder which KEH offered to do for me under warranty, but I preferred to have it taken care of by my local technician. That cost me $120. He tested the shutter at the same time and found it accurate to within 1/3 EV up to 1/250 second, after that it runs a bit off as the shutter time goes up (they tend to run fast at one end and slow at the other when they need an overhaul). That's good enough. Aside from those minor and correctible issues, it is in at least EXC cosmetic and mechanical condition. Mmm are brick and mortar dealer a more serious source for that kind of cameras or Ebay is as good (scared of scams). It's generally best to buy Leicas from Leica specialist shops, whether private or commercial. KEH.com is one of the larger and more reliable of general retailers so I wasn't afraid of being stiffed with them. Ebay is a good source if you find the right seller, although many people are under the strange opinion that these cameras are worth far more than they really are there. People on GetDPI.com and RangeFinderForum.com are often good sources, possibly FredMiranda.com too, but of course don't expect a warranty. Red Dot Cameras in the UK, Leica Shop Vintage Cameras in Austria, Tamarkin Camera in Connecticut, USA SherryKrauter.com in the USA, and The Photo Village in New York City, USA, are all shops I've dealt with and had good service. I bought the M9 from Tamarkin ... superb service. Tamarkin.com currently has a range of used Ms for sale on their website. Thank you. PS: Film rulez :) Film is dead. But that doesn't stop it from having fun. ]'-) -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
