Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax. We buy what we like, and not what we don't. The fact that Pentax is still in business means that they are producing what we like (more or less). John On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:19:58 -, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh? Dave On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually we do. Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy: Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax. Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long as) we treat him like a king :-) Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey DiGiorgi Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote: See, you are human after all ;-))) Or I put up a good simulation. ;-) G -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Exactly, John! And you are right - even the opposite is true, to some extend: People who do not buy Pentax are guilty of NOT giving Pentax greater incentives for further developments etc. :-) Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John Forbes Sendt: 1. januar 2007 12:26 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax. We buy what we like, and not what we don't. The fact that Pentax is still in business means that they are producing what we like (more or less). John On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 12:19:58 -, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh? Dave On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually we do. Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy: Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax. Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long as) we treat him like a king :-) Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey DiGiorgi Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote: See, you are human after all ;-))) Or I put up a good simulation. ;-) G -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: 12/31/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.1/611 - Release Date: 12/31/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Oh OK. I read that very late at night/early in the morning when I replied. I wasn't firing on all cylinders. :-) Cheers, Dave On 1/1/07, Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Exactly, John! And you are right - even the opposite is true, to some extend: People who do not buy Pentax are guilty of NOT giving Pentax greater incentives for further developments etc. :-) Regards Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af John Forbes Sendt: 1. januar 2007 12:26 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? I think Jens means that we, the users, make a Pentax a Pentax. We buy what we like, and not what we don't. The fact that Pentax is still in business means that they are producing what we like (more or less). John -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Actually we do. Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy: Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax. Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long as) we treat him like a king :-) Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey DiGiorgi Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote: See, you are human after all ;-))) Or I put up a good simulation. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/610 - Release Date: 12/30/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Huh? Dave On 12/31/06, Jens Bladt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually we do. Here's my 2 cents of pholisophy: Pentax makes cameras and lenses. People who buy a Pentax have made Pentax (the company) POentax (successful). Pentax makes what we want to buy. If they didn't, Pentax wouldn't be Pentax. Or, as Karl Marx once said: The King is merely a King, because (or as long as) we treat him like a king :-) Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Godfrey DiGiorgi Sendt: 23. december 2006 02:41 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote: See, you are human after all ;-))) Or I put up a good simulation. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. They just don't sell enough units. Maybe there will be a FF (24x36mm) or 1.3x crop DSLR using the crippled K mount and the 645D may be introduced if it's far enough along, but will be discontinued, quickly, if sales don't meet expectations. Let's face it Pentax only kept the SLR business because their corporate image required it. What does Hoya care? The Pentax SLR isn't their image, they want the medical products business. Paul Stenquist wrote: On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote: It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here. Paul -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Pure conjecture. Needless worry. Wait until something bad happens, then worry. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying my camera, and I will for quite a few years to come. Paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. They just don't sell enough units. Maybe there will be a FF (24x36mm) or 1.3x crop DSLR using the crippled K mount and the 645D may be introduced if it's far enough along, but will be discontinued, quickly, if sales don't meet expectations. Let's face it Pentax only kept the SLR business because their corporate image required it. What does Hoya care? The Pentax SLR isn't their image, they want the medical products business. Paul Stenquist wrote: On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote: It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here. Paul -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
They did announce that MF film products have been discontinued. Only existing stock is still available. Hoya has supported the Tokina brand in full and quite invisibly. I doubt that anyone here even knew Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day. I expect that they will support the Pentax brand in full and invisibly. And until there's some real reason for worry, I suggest that we all take it easy. Life is good. Paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:15 PM, Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled them or trashed their product line. Paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I doubt that anyone here even knew Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day. I've known it since the acquisition. There was never any secrecy about it. Hoya took over Kenko at about the same time. Press releases went out about these deals, and I'm sure some of the photo publications mentioned this. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I doubt that anyone here even knew Hoya owned Tokana until just the other day. I've known it since the acquisition. There was never any secrecy about it. Hoya took over Kenko at about the same time. Press releases went out about these deals, and I'm sure some of the photo publications mentioned this. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 12/23/06 4:20 PM, Bob Shell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled them or trashed their product line. Right. Just the reverse, in fact, since they've improved Tokina quality. I think Tokina is a grandchild when their parent, Kenko became Hoya's subsidiary. Hoya is now emphasizing vertical integration which might actually work ;-). Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 1:47 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote: I would have expected you to know, Bob, since you cover the biz. But my point was that Tokina is still Tokina. Hoya hasn't disassembled them or trashed their product line. Right. Just the reverse, in fact, since they've improved Tokina quality. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Bob Shell wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Yes, that was my understanding as well. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Excellent question, although the same question can be asked concerning any other super brands - like Ferrari, Gucci, Porsche, Harley Davidson etc. Perhaps Pentax is not really a super brand (a brand for which people are prepared to pay an over price, because of the prestige etc.). But Pentax IS a widely well known and respected brand. When a company like Pentax merges with another company or buys it (like Imacon/Hasselblad, Konica/Minolta, Volvo/Ford etc.) it just means they are trying to make a reasonable sound business decision. Naturally, Pentax had to consider if this would damage the company reputation or not. And of course weather it wouild be profitable or not. The answer to the latter is obvious - Pentax must have considered this carefully, I'm sure. I don't know about the first question, but I guess HOYA is largely regarded as a company marketing excellent photographic filters for consumers as well as pro's. In the sixties-seventies Pentax WAS a super brand. The Spotmatics were a huge success. At that time Pentax sold more cameras than Nikon and Canon put together. Those days ar long gone. At first Nikon took a leading role. Roomers say that Nikon gave away cameras to journalist all over the world - in the sixties - making marketing a major issue. And they did of course develop nice cameras and excellent lenses as well. Canon took a leading role at the time the Canon EOS 1v was introduced. It was faster (AF) than any other camera. Almost every sports journalist in the world bought one. Since the sixties Pentax has: 1) Lived on utilizing the Spotmatic aera fame. 2) Marketed userfreindly, affordable cameras, without really competing with the major players; Nikon and Canon, in the pro market section. 3) Sold LOADS of high end PS and consumer cameras. 4) From time to time released (almost) pro-speced/enthusiast SLR cameras like the LX, PZ1, *ist D 5) From time to time released excellent (pro-speced) glass (like the F 1.4/50mm, A* 1.4 85mm, FA 2.8 80-200mm, FA 2.8 300mm, FA 31mm, FA f77mm and others) 6) Kept on releasing less excellent, but still useable lenses for the consumer market (F 4-5.6 35-80mm for 4x6 prints for the family album). 7) Released pro-speced, excellent Medium Format cameras (6x7 and 645). Pentax is targeting the consumer and enthusiasts markets as the number one priority (that's where the money is, they seem to think). And Pentax is from time to time competing successfully in the segment of consumer/enthusiast cameras (DS/K100D/K10D), but without trying to compete in the pro market segment (Full Frame, 8 FPS, Huge amount of F.2.8 zooms, fast AF, latest technology for computerized control of cameras and images. color profiles etc). Pentax is high end, userfriendly consumer and enthusiast cameras - and (from time to time) excellent or superior glass and camera features. I don't see any signs of changes in this policy. And hey, doesn't Hoya fit this policy like a glove? Regards Jens Jens Bladt http://www.jensbladt.dk +45 56 63 77 11 +45 23 43 85 77 Skype: jensbladt248 -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] vegne af Mark Cassino Sendt: 22. december 2006 02:07 Til: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Emne: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel the opposite? Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.) Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange ergonomics of the Mz-S? I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you. It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? - MCC -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Photography Kalamazoo www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/594 - Release Date: 12/20/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 23/12/06, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed: Wait until something bad happens, then worry. What part of that is difficult to understand? ;-)) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Noo. Not another Cotty ! Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 23/12/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: Noo. Not another Cotty ! Better start buying Dremel stock ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday... Adam Maas wrote: Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears the mirror on EF-S bodies). Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF) -Adam -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 23/12/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday... It's by pure chance I hacked the K15. It could just have easily been the A15. I'll see if I can dig out some pics of the operation -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 23, 2006, at 4:30 PM, Jens Bladt wrote: I'm sure. I don't know about the first question, but I guess HOYA is largely regarded as a company marketing excellent photographic filters for consumers as well as pro's. Hoya today is a major player in the semiconductor equipment business, makes hard drive platters and heads, and a wide variety of products having nothing to do with optics. See: http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/sep2005/ pi20050912_6558_pi044.htm Also see this link for a list of Hoya subsidiary companies: http://www.hoya.co.jp/CACHE/english/group_content_group5.cfm And this one for USA optical glass: http://www.hoyaoptics.com/specialty_glass/optical.htm We're talking about a large and diversified company, one small part of which deals with optics, and Pentax will become a small part of that. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
There are both K and A versions of the 15/3.5. In fact, i believe there are two different K versions. paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 5:40 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday... Adam Maas wrote: Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears the mirror on EF-S bodies). Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF) -Adam -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only profits. Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Bob -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I know that, but was commenting on the fact that it was a K version not the A that Cotty mutilated to force into an unholy mating to his darkside spawned infernal photographic device. Paul Stenquist wrote: There are both K and A versions of the 15/3.5. In fact, i believe there are two different K versions. paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 5:40 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I think the 15mm was a K not A, one of the few things I find forgivable as it would be much easier to restore full K functionality someday... Adam Maas wrote: Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears the mirror on EF-S bodies). Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF) -Adam -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
No corporation, big or small has use for sentiment. You can be sure that all Pentax decisions were motivated by profit potential, as they will continue to be. Not to worry. Paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 7:42 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only profits. Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Bob -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Small corporations are a bit different, Pentax showed all the hallmarks of being a small corporation. Their image was tied up in their SLR heritage. They used it instead of advertising. Pentax was less likely to dispense with their camera business because of that image, they held onto it during lean times waiting them out. Hoya will do what Konica did with their photo division much more readily. If it makes money nothing much will change. Paul Stenquist wrote: No corporation, big or small has use for sentiment. You can be sure that all Pentax decisions were motivated by profit potential, as they will continue to be. Not to worry. Paul On Dec 23, 2006, at 7:42 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Right now they're disappearing slowly, and the 645D will be replacing the 645, big corporations have no use for such sentiment, only profits. Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 23, 2006, at 12:06 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: I expect that un-profitable or merely less than nominally profitable products to be discontinued. That means that the medium format lines will disappear quickly. I thought they had already announced that they were phasing out the medium format film products. Bob -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the K10D, which seems to be from the old mould. The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look feel than most of the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very confusing. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Cassino Sent: 22 December 2006 01:07 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel the opposite? Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.) Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange ergonomics of the Mz-S? I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you. It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? - MCC -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Photography Kalamazoo www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 21/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. Your a hard man Godders ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the K10D, which seems to be from the old mould. Very similar time frame and thought. 1980 for me. The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look feel than most of the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very confusing. I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear. As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want. It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax cameras have. Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent pedigree. Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Mark Cassino wrote: Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange ergonomics of the Mz-S? It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? What makes Pentax - Pentax? It is very simple! It is the lenses, with a superb combination of sharpness and smooth rendition of out-of-focus areas. It is the bodies, with a superb combination of features and, above all, excellent handling. And it is value for money, because just about every Pentax product sells at a price that ensures it will be a good value. So lenses, features, handling and value are what makes Pentax - Pentax, for me. Can Hoya capture that? Well, Hoya's Tokina subsidiary makes some excellent lenses, including several of the new Pentax range. Hoya sure makes a lot of top quality glass. So I think Pentax is in very safe hands. Happy holidays. Colin ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:34 AM, Cotty wrote: - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh expectations. ... Cheers, Cotty That is obviously a concern for those who have appreciated the emphasis on small lightwieght gear; they are afraid that the new generation gear will outweigh their expectations! In terms of handling, look and feel, etc. (not optics) I am totally underwhelmed by all F and FA series lenses except for the FA* and Limiteds. I hope they continue to produce functional cameras and lenses that are like the Km M, A, and Limited lenses. Gear aimed to the user, not to the mass market impulse buyer. Stan -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I dont know how you guys cant like the A lenses either. They are plastic for the most part too, have terrible feel compared to the earlier K/M and screw lenses. They also have a far more common problem rate with the focus mechanisms than any of the eariler lenses. I dont like the A series lenses for this reason. I dont have a lot of exerinece with the F series and later lenses,but I can tell you for sure that the A series was and is a definate drop off in quality mechanically for Pentax, and that's one of the reasons I am/was an ardant defender of the need for the aperture cam sensor return to Pentax bodies. I dont want to use A lenses. I would much rather use the more refined K/M lenses if they were fully supported, the only features they would lack compared to A would be very minor compared to the features they currently lack on the current Pentax DSLR bodies. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cotty Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:35 AM To: pentax list Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On 22/12/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: the thing that made me buy my first Pentax, a new MX, in 1979 was that it was small, very well made, at least as good as its rivals from Olympus and Nikon, and much cheaper. Those are the distinguishing factors for me. I don't think it's been true of Pentax for a very long time, although it may be becoming more so with the release of the K10D, which seems to be from the old mould. Very similar time frame and thought. 1980 for me. The lenses from the pre-plastic era (ie the metal A lenses and earlier) seem to me to have a more consistent look feel than most of the more modern lenses too. I find the current line up of lenses very confusing. I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear. As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want. It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax cameras have. Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent pedigree. Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Sorry John, I ain't touching that one. Cheers, Dave On 12/22/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dont know how you guys cant like the A lenses either. They are plastic for the most part too, have terrible feel compared to the earlier K/M and screw lenses. They also have a far more common problem rate with the focus mechanisms than any of the eariler lenses. I dont like the A series lenses for this reason. I dont have a lot of exerinece with the F series and later lenses,but I can tell you for sure that the A series was and is a definate drop off in quality mechanically for Pentax, and that's one of the reasons I am/was an ardant defender of the need for the aperture cam sensor return to Pentax bodies. I dont want to use A lenses. I would much rather use the more refined K/M lenses if they were fully supported, the only features they would lack compared to A would be very minor compared to the features they currently lack on the current Pentax DSLR bodies. jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 22, 2006, at 1:12 AM, Cotty wrote: I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. Your a hard man Godders ;-) Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came out of other than an equipment buff. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/12/22 Fri PM 02:57:23 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? On Dec 22, 2006, at 1:12 AM, Cotty wrote: I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. Your a hard man Godders ;-) Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came out of other than an equipment buff. You say that as if being an equipment buff is a bad thing, Yet doesn't working the way you like make you an equipment buff? ;-) - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a Samsung DSLR? Would they if the price difference to the Pentax twin would be maybe 20% or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any (sentimental) reason despite the cost ? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 4:40 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I don't buy Samsung brand equipment because as far as I can determine their customer service in the US is virtually non-existent with respect to the photographic market. in that regard, Nikon/Canon/Leica/ Pentax/Olympus/Hasselblad are the strongest brands I've worked with. Godfrey On Dec 22, 2006, at 6:52 AM, Markus Maurer wrote: But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a Samsung DSLR? Would they if the price difference to the Pentax twin would be maybe 20% or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any (sentimental) reason despite the cost ? I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 12/22/06, Markus Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But as far as I have seen reported on this list very few buy a Samsung DSLR? Would they if the price difference to the Pentax twin would be maybe 20% or more or do they simple want the Pentax logo for any (sentimental) reason despite the cost ? greetings Markus Have you ever heard about Samsung DSLR firmware upgrades? I didn't. But the main reason for me is sentimental :) -- Best regards, Alex Sarbu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 12/22/06 9:57 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came out of other than an equipment buff. You are not the only one who thinks that way, if they ever are seriously into photography as hobby or money making. But there are many different ways to enjoy it. If taking picture is the only way to do so, you might be missing out something :-). Ken -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Well said, Cotty! (I suspect, BTW, that this post is longer than all of your other 2006 posts combined!) Merry (or Happy, in British!) Christmas! Rick --- Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, with uncharacteristic volubility: I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear. As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want. It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax cameras have. Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent pedigree. Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net http://www.photo.net/photos/RickW __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
The name stamped on the camera body and lenses. Since none of us can tell simply by looking at a photograph, what camera model and what lens model it was taken with, and there are literally millions of very nice photos taken with other brands, the above is what makes a Pentax. That and it was in A Hard Day's Night. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 22, 2006, at 7:01 AM, mike wilson wrote: Perhaps. But to me the photographs have always been more important than the tools that make them. In the end, what people respond to are the prints and web images, no one really cares what camera they came out of other than an equipment buff. You say that as if being an equipment buff is a bad thing, Yet doesn't working the way you like make you an equipment buff? ;-) No. An equipment buff enjoys the equipment for its own sake. There's nothing wrong with that but it's not photography, which is my interest. I buy the equipment for the sake of making photographs and want the equipment to work the way I need it to for that purpose. I do enjoy using good equipment too, but that's a secondary result of it making the photographs I want. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: I buy the equipment for the sake of making photographs and want the equipment to work the way I need it to for that purpose. I do enjoy using good equipment too, but that's a secondary result of it making the photographs I want. Okay, I'll pipe up here. The way I see it, it's an organic merger of the two things - wanting to do nothing but take good pictures, and wanting to do nothing but play with cameras. I have no regrets saying that I'm just as happy fondling the kit as I am out making pics. I love all the paraphernalia associated with good photography equipment - both still and moving. I'm not ashamed to say that I also sleep with the odd lens. JOKE. But yeah, I like my gear and I don't mind being called a nutter for giving inanimate objects names and such. It's all a bit of fun :-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 12/22/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JOKE. But yeah, I like my gear and I don't mind being called a nutter for giving inanimate objects names and such. It's all a bit of fun :-) Cheers, Cotty I think I'll call the K10D Woody Woodpecker. Just engage the DR system and you'll know why grin -- Best regards, Alex Sarbu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Hi! For some reason I missed that post from Cotty. Anyway, I should say that Cotty has his way with words. I should say that I feel exactly the same, up to the wording of course. Thanks, Cotty, you're quite right I think. Boris --- Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, with uncharacteristic volubility: I don't so much find it as confusing, just that I do not want plastic lenses. I don't own any. It means more weight, but I don't associate more weight with being detrimental. All my Pentax and Canon lenses (and cameras) are metal and heavy and will last longer than I will. Just the way i like to shoot - with a bit of heft to the gear. As for the merger, it doesn't really effect me, although we do have an *ist Ds in the house. I am sad to see Pentax as a small underdog being merged with another company if for nothing other than it eventually moulds itself into something else, no matter how much reassurance is given that it won't. Sure, I have no doubt the Pentax brand will continue - in a worst-case scenario for at least a few years, probably much much longer. But after the honeymoon is over, the core people who made Pentax what it is today (Ken will know of the names) will slowly and surely be edged or bought out. Hoya will appoint people to take the company in the direction it wants to go (I have personal experience with such a merger) and that may or may not coincide with what the fans want. It may mean much better things in terms of research and development of new products [from the Imaging section] and so you will probably see better and greater DSLRs coming on the scene - probably even 'full frame' 35mm DSLRs - but they won't have the karma that current Pentax cameras have. Then again, I have always said that the Pentax of today is a far cry from the Pentax of 30 years ago. Now comes the next generation. On the whole I think it is a sad day. But Godders will be pleased - the gear will still be there and future incarnations will doubtless outweigh expectations. There's a lot to be pleased about for anyone that likes good quality photographic equipment decently priced with excellent pedigree. Pentax is dead. Long live Pentax! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net http://www.photo.net/photos/RickW __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. In a moment of madness I looked at some of the Cn lens reviews to see what was to be gained if anything by switching to the full frame 5D. The favourite wide lens was the sigma 12-24, which I have in a Pentax mount. I didn't fancy paying £1000 for a 16-35 Canon zoom with worse barrel distortion than the Sigma. Their 14mm was twice the price of the Pentax and not that well thought of. The 20mm prime was indifferent although at least not astronomically expensive. the 24 1.4 was excellent but only when stopped down and cost another £1000. The 24 2.8 was OK at best and so on Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Peter It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears the mirror on EF-S bodies). Plenty of people do this to get better Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon or Leica wides onto the nice canon FF bodies. I personally have the Leica and M42 adaptors and intend on getting a Nikon adaptor as well (I have a Canon film body and may get a 5D if I ever get the cash, I've got an extensve Nikon MF collection that I'd like to use on FF) -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
That and it was in A Hard Day's Night. Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years: What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's Night? I've asked dozens of people, but no one has provided a satisfactory answer. Anyone here know? John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:59 AM, Cotty wrote: The way I see it, it's an organic merger of the two things - wanting to do nothing but take good pictures, and wanting to do nothing but play with cameras. I have no regrets saying that I'm just as happy fondling the kit as I am out making pics. I love all the paraphernalia associated with good photography equipment - both still and moving. I'm not ashamed to say that I also sleep with the odd lens. Um, I wonder what Alma thinks when she rubs up against something hard, thick and round at night ... No, you don't have to answer that. ;-) ]'-) Good equipment can inspire me too (although not quite to the direction of sleeping with it) ... witness the fun I'm having using the Pentax 645 kit occasionally right now ... and all the paraphernalia is pretty neat when it does what you want it to. I don't enjoy it much just for itself, but thinking about it gives me pause to consider how I might put it to use. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
John Celio wrote: That and it was in A Hard Day's Night. Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years: What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's Night? Pentax H3 I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm on it at one point. BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last. It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: For some reason I missed that post from Cotty. Anyway, I should say that Cotty has his way with words. I should say that I feel exactly the same, up to the wording of course. Thanks, Cotty, you're quite right I think. I'll take that as a compliment. Actually I'll take anything I can get ;-) Shalom! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: Good equipment can inspire me too (although not quite to the direction of sleeping with it) ... witness the fun I'm having using the Pentax 645 kit occasionally right now ... and all the paraphernalia is pretty neat when it does what you want it to. I don't enjoy it much just for itself, but thinking about it gives me pause to consider how I might put it to use. See, you are human after all ;-))) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Adam Maas, discombobulated, unleashed: It's called Cotty-izing a lens, as Cotty has done exactly that to an A 15 and A* 85 for use on his 1DmII. Easier to do now that Cameraquest is selling a K-EF adaptor (You'll still need to trim the stop-down lever off to clear the mirror on a FF or 1.3x crop body, but the lever clears the mirror on EF-S bodies). With an intro like that who needs Ed McMahon? Here ya go... http://www.cottysnaps.com/snaps/mods/eoskmount.html -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Peter Fairweather, discombobulated, unleashed: Makes the advantage of a full frame sensor disappear at the wide end. I even thought of taking a hacksaw to the Pentax mounts and converting them to Canon. Has anyone ever tried that? ; ; Not to my knowledge. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 22/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed: Um, I wonder what Alma thinks when she rubs up against something hard, thick and round at night ... No, you don't have to answer that. ;-) ]'-) That's the dead cat I keep as a backup. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's Night? Pentax H3 I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm on it at one point. I don't recall the lens being all that big. Are you sure it was a 135? I always figured it was a 50mm of some sort, especially since they're so much more common. BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last. It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too. I too saw it in the theater, though it was at least five years ago, when it was remastered (or something like that) and released to a small number of theaters around the country. I've loved that movie since I was little, when my dad first showed it to my brothers and I (I know your caper! became a catchphrase in my family). The theater I saw it in was even an old-fashioned, very ornate, single-screen venue, which my dad said was a lot like the theaters he went to as a kid. It was like being in a time-machine. :) John -- http://www.neovenator.com http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
At first I thought, Wow, the same camera I had. Then I though, That is just plain silly. What would Ringo be doing with a Honeywell Pentax sold only in america? Besides that I think the H3 was pre-Beatles. I do know that at one time they all had Spotmatics, but I am not sure just which version. If he had an European version of an H3 it would have been a S3. OK just looked it up, the movie was released in 64, so S3 or S3a is most likely. Mark Roberts wrote: John Celio wrote: That and it was in A Hard Day's Night. Which brings to mind a question that has been bothering me for years: What camera model and lens combination was Ringo using in A Hard Day's Night? Pentax H3 I'm pretty sure he was using a 135mm lens at one point but I have no idea which 135 it might be. Can't remember for certain if he had a 50mm on it at one point. BTW: I saw A Hard Day's Night in the theater the summer before last. It's a very good film and a lot of fun, too. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Cotty wrote: See, you are human after all ;-))) Or I put up a good simulation. ;-) G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. I agree with you on the lenses, more or less. Thanks for the interesting feedback about your Canon lens experience. Pentax lenses are a bit of a mixed bag - they once had a really complete line up of high end to everyday lenses, but there's been no real updating to the high end models (like HSM for big telephotos (600 f4, 400 f2.8)). Now the line up is a bit spotty. The backwards compatibility that Pentax has stuck with is a major plus - but a lot of older lenses have issues with chromatic aberration on digital bodies. Pentax body's a well designed and feature rich, IMO, especially when compared to similar price points for the other brands. For me, the combination of backwards compatibility, a recently full line up of lenses (fortunately all available when I was building my collection) and premium / specialty lenses like the Limited Series distinguish Pentax from the crowd. The medium format offerings also distinguish Pentax from Canon, Nikon, and Minolta. - MCC -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Photography Kalamazoo www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
To Pentax's credit we should point out that the FA 600/4 is still available by special order. I don't know about the 400/2.8. I think we'll see more long glass in the future. Right now, they're trying to fill in the midrange with new DA lenses. Paul On Dec 22, 2006, at 9:42 PM, Mark Cassino wrote: Peter Fairweather wrote: Mark The answer to your question is the lenses. I agree with you on the lenses, more or less. Thanks for the interesting feedback about your Canon lens experience. Pentax lenses are a bit of a mixed bag - they once had a really complete line up of high end to everyday lenses, but there's been no real updating to the high end models (like HSM for big telephotos (600 f4, 400 f2.8)). Now the line up is a bit spotty. The backwards compatibility that Pentax has stuck with is a major plus - but a lot of older lenses have issues with chromatic aberration on digital bodies. Pentax body's a well designed and feature rich, IMO, especially when compared to similar price points for the other brands. For me, the combination of backwards compatibility, a recently full line up of lenses (fortunately all available when I was building my collection) and premium / specialty lenses like the Limited Series distinguish Pentax from the crowd. The medium format offerings also distinguish Pentax from Canon, Nikon, and Minolta. - MCC -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Photography Kalamazoo www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Small, light amateur oriented SLR's with innovative features, top-quality ergonomics and a dedication to unique, top-quality lenses. -Adam Mark Cassino wrote: With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel the opposite? Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.) Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange ergonomics of the Mz-S? I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you. It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? - MCC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:07 PM, Mark Cassino wrote: It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? I will be very surprised if Hoya even tampers with it. They have to see what's happening with the new products. They're not going to ruin a good thing. But they will be able to provide resources that Pentax lacks. I can't see anything but a win, win situation here. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Good answer. On Dec 21, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Adam Maas wrote: Small, light amateur oriented SLR's with innovative features, top-quality ergonomics and a dedication to unique, top-quality lenses. -Adam Mark Cassino wrote: With the Hoya acquisition of Pentax, I'm pondering a fundamental question - what could Hoya do to make me feel that my future Pentax (or Ho-Tax) is a true Pentax camera, and what could they do to make me feel the opposite? Obviously, there's the lens compatibility issue. Pentax has really distinguished itself by retaining backwards compatibility with virtually all K mount lens, even if you lose a few features when using them. (And even if they produce really bad chromatic aberrations on a digital body.) Otherwise - what makes Pentax - Pentax? Is it SMC? The devotion to ~40mm pancake lenses? 'Unusual' sharpening of JPG's in the DSLR? The strange ergonomics of the Mz-S? I like Pentax. I've been about as loyal to them as I've ever been to any brand, simply because I could count on them to do what was right in their eyes and damn the pressure for conformity. For that, I respected them. They were the Gary Cooper of the camera world - low key, conservative, but doing what they chose to do, thank you. It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? - MCC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
- Original Message - From: Mark Cassino Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? It's the lenses. Always has been. Hopefully, that won't change. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
I don't care one wit who owns or merges with Pentax as long as the cameras they make continue to make pictures with the quality that I am satisfied with, and work the way I like. If they stop doing that, I'll buy some other camera which does. It's that simple. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
Hi! It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? I once was told by someone or read somewhere that Pentax has a nickname of Japanese Leica... Pentax is unique by virtue of their lenses. Nothing can compare with old limiteds or star lenses. Now, I think the way the DPReview press release is worded means actually that Pentax will cease to exist. It will become a part of very large entity and I am very much afraid that Pentax will loose its identity. That is to say of course that I am not jumping ships or anything, because I have what I want and my cameras and lenses are still shooting very straight. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
On 12/22/06, William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Mark Cassino Subject: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax? It's a question I ask myself - what makes Pentax unique? And can Hoya capture that? It's the lenses. Always has been. Hopefully, that won't change. William Robb Ditto what WW said. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
