Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
On 1/10/12, Guido Stepken gstep...@googlemail.com wrote: While deciders still reflect upon what programming language and framework to use, thinking about Java, .NET ... , Google and Apple have set new standards by pushing LLVM, V8, Webkit, node.js with a tremendous amount of money to perfection. Look at this example: http://monocle.inventivelabs.com.au/books/dubliners Works in Google chrome version 16 I cannot turn the pages in FF9.0.1, nor in Opera 11.60. An epub reader object, good example for ambient oriended programming. The reader behaves like an native app, independent on architecture, processor and os, touch, nontouch. Simply runs in every browser. And browser has javascript language bindings to all hardware, GPS, barometer, wifi, GSM, touch interface, mouse, cam if available. Porting PHARO onto Amber makes sense for me. Nothing else. COGVM, browser plugin, touch interface, portability discussion finished! IMHO the only chance for Smalltalk to come to new life. Yes, every computer including tablet computer and many mobile phones come with a virtual machine pre-installed. This VM interprets JavaScript. JavaScript is the VM of the web. http://www.dynamic-languages-symposium.org/dls-10/program/media/AllenWirfsBrock_2010_SmalltalkVirtualMachinesToJavaScriptEnginesPerspectivesOnMainstreamingDynamicLanguages_Dls.pdf slide 30 Or as Dan Ingalls puts it JavaScript is _the_ assembly language of the internet. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-September/131250.html Having an environment to do Smalltalk programming on this VM makes sense. JavaScript is actually a simple and clean language if you just look at the core language (no DOM, no browser objects). There are objects (like dictionaries in Smalltalk) and arrays which are specialized objects. And there are functions which are objects as well (including closures). Primitives values (Number, String, Boolean) behave as objects as well (read-only properties as changing the state does not make sense). Alan Wirfs-Brock is co-editor of the ECMAScript 5.1 specification http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/ECMA-262%20edition%205.1,%20June%202011.pdf In ECMAscript 5 (for example as implemented in IE9) a lot of Smalltalk constructs may be used 1:1. http://www.dynamic-languages-symposium.org/dls-10/program/media/AllenWirfsBrock_2010_SmalltalkVirtualMachinesToJavaScriptEnginesPerspectivesOnMainstreamingDynamicLanguages_Dls.pdf However as the example of the book reader shows there are problems with different implementations not supporting all the APIs. This as well applies to Amber where a lot more tests are needed. Regards Hannes Hirzel regards, Guido Stepken Am 10.01.2012 09:29 schrieb Friedrich Dominicus fr...@q-software-solutions.de: Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. YES. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. An argument to learn Smalltalk as a first language? Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
While deciders still reflect upon what programming language and framework to use, thinking about Java, .NET ... , Google and Apple have set new standards by pushing LLVM, V8, Webkit, node.js with a tremendous amount of money to perfection. Look at this example: http://monocle.inventivelabs.com.au/books/dubliners An epub reader object, good example for ambient oriended programming. The reader behaves like an native app, independent on architecture, processor and os, touch, nontouch. Simply runs in every browser. And browser has javascript language bindings to all hardware, GPS, barometer, wifi, GSM, touch interface, mouse, cam if available. Porting PHARO onto Amber makes sense for me. Nothing else. COGVM, browser plugin, touch interface, portability discussion finished! IMHO the only chance for Smalltalk to come to new life. regards, Guido Stepken Am 10.01.2012 09:29 schrieb Friedrich Dominicus fr...@q-software-solutions.de: Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
On 10 January 2012 14:25, Guido Stepken gstep...@googlemail.com wrote: While deciders still reflect upon what programming language and framework to use, thinking about Java, .NET ... , Google and Apple have set new standards by pushing LLVM, V8, Webkit, node.js with a tremendous amount of money to perfection. Look at this example: http://monocle.inventivelabs.com.au/books/dubliners An epub reader object, good example for ambient oriended programming. The reader behaves like an native app, independent on architecture, processor and os, touch, nontouch. Simply runs in every browser. And browser has javascript language bindings to all hardware, GPS, barometer, wifi, GSM, touch interface, mouse, cam if available. Porting PHARO onto Amber makes sense for me. Nothing else. COGVM, browser plugin, touch interface, portability discussion finished! IMHO the only chance for Smalltalk to come to new life. when you want to get fast somewhere you can always rent a car if you don't have one. but it will be very hard to convince car-rent provider to give you a specific car, which suits most for your needs. Because for rented cars you usually pretty limited in choice of features available. That's the main reason between having own VM and being able to directly control its features, and just running on rent car. regards, Guido Stepken Am 10.01.2012 09:29 schrieb Friedrich Dominicus fr...@q-software-solutions.de: Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
I prefer car rent. My brain quickly adapts to touch cars, mouse cars, kinect cars, siri cars. Am 10.01.2012 14:39 schrieb Igor Stasenko siguc...@gmail.com: On 10 January 2012 14:25, Guido Stepken gstep...@googlemail.com wrote: While deciders still reflect upon what programming language and framework to use, thinking about Java, .NET ... , Google and Apple have set new standards by pushing LLVM, V8, Webkit, node.js with a tremendous amount of money to perfection. Look at this example: http://monocle.inventivelabs.com.au/books/dubliners An epub reader object, good example for ambient oriended programming. The reader behaves like an native app, independent on architecture, processor and os, touch, nontouch. Simply runs in every browser. And browser has javascript language bindings to all hardware, GPS, barometer, wifi, GSM, touch interface, mouse, cam if available. Porting PHARO onto Amber makes sense for me. Nothing else. COGVM, browser plugin, touch interface, portability discussion finished! IMHO the only chance for Smalltalk to come to new life. when you want to get fast somewhere you can always rent a car if you don't have one. but it will be very hard to convince car-rent provider to give you a specific car, which suits most for your needs. Because for rented cars you usually pretty limited in choice of features available. That's the main reason between having own VM and being able to directly control its features, and just running on rent car. regards, Guido Stepken Am 10.01.2012 09:29 schrieb Friedrich Dominicus fr...@q-software-solutions.de: Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Someone said (recently?) something like that: There are a lot of object-oriented programming languages, but nearly no object-oriented programming. 2012/1/10 Friedrich Dominicus fr...@q-software-solutions.de Dennis Schetinin chae...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) No not really. See there is Objective-C in fifth place. That is not too bad. JavaScript is up also and that is very much a Smalltalk in disguise. I'd just would appreciate if Smalltalk was at least among the first 10. At least that would be deserved. Anyway if you see Smalltalk as idea supplier for Object-oriented languages, one can see that OO really rules. Down to Transact-SQL all the languages offer more or less support for OO-programming. Some even claim to be object-oriented ;-) There is not one language among the first 15 which does not offer anything about OO. See even Visual Basic uses it. Well it's not that this may all too much, but it's still obvious. OO is currently the way to go. I for my part would appreciate some more support for functional languages. But to some extend all of them at least support it partially. What is astonishing is the rank of R. That I think can be seen as unexpected. -- Q-Software Solutions GmbH; Sitz: Bruchsal; Registergericht: Mannheim Registriernummer: HRB232138; Geschaeftsfuehrer: Friedrich Dominicus -- Dennis Schetinin
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Guido Stepken wrote http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Smalltalk ... hmmm are Smalltalkers sure to realize whats ging on in the world? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's important to think about the wider world, but the tiobe index is rubbish. It's based on search engine hits for goodness sake. Of what is talking about a language, especially in the uber-democratic-everyone's-a-technical-blogger web a good indicator? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Re-Most-wanted-programming-language-tp4280758p4282434.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
[Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Sean P. DeNigri wrote: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's important to think about the wider world, but the tiobe index is rubbish. yes, see http://astares.blogspot.com/2006/07/stupid-metrics.html Bye T. -- NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurück-Garantie! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
For some healty banter, I used to say that all good programmers have to master at least one really unpopular language. Be it Smalltalk, Haskell, Erlang, Scala, Self, [your choice here] -Original Message- From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of Torsten Bergmann Sent: 10 January 2012 17:07 To: pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language: Sean P. DeNigri wrote: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's important to think about the wider world, but the tiobe index is rubbish. yes, see http://astares.blogspot.com/2006/07/stupid-metrics.html Bye T. -- NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurück-Garantie! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses, confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers, available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Torsten Bergmann wrote yes, see http://astares.blogspot.com/2006/07/stupid-metrics.html Exactly! I wrote a short blog post to vent: http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=911 -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Most-wanted-programming-language-tp4282590p4282943.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
fun :) yes, see http://astares.blogspot.com/2006/07/stupid-metrics.html Exactly! I wrote a short blog post to vent: http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=911 -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Most-wanted-programming-language-tp4282590p4282943.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
This here is real fun: http://www.reactos.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82781 I really love PVS - Studio, cause it documents, that its - by principle - *impossible* to write reliable software in certain programming languages. :-) Have fun! Guido Stepken Am 10.01.2012 19:46 schrieb Stéphane Ducasse stephane.duca...@inria.fr: fun :) yes, see http://astares.blogspot.com/2006/07/stupid-metrics.html Exactly! I wrote a short blog post to vent: http://seandenigris.com/blog/?p=911 -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Most-wanted-programming-language-tp4282590p4282943.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Smalltalk ... hmmm are Smalltalkers sure to realize whats ging on in the world? Have fun, Guido Stepken
Re: [Pharo-project] Most wanted programming language:
Yes, we do: the (outer) world is getting worse and worse :) 2012/1/10 Guido Stepken gstep...@googlemail.com http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html Smalltalk ... hmmm are Smalltalkers sure to realize whats ging on in the world? Have fun, Guido Stepken -- Dennis Schetinin
