Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem
During your possession of this machine has it always had this issue? The gradual pace of the deviation points to mainspring or main (1st) wheel issues. Set mainsprings are uncommon on DD machines. This is usually caused by degraded lubricant residue on the MS or stiff material on the barrel floor or lid catching the spring edges. It can also be due to a wear mismatch between 1st wheel and worm, especially if it’s cyclic error, If these came from two different motors. There can be other causes, less likely. I would put my money on sticky mainspring. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 20, 2019, at 1:28 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > wrote: > > > It’s not a flutter or wow, but rather a more gradual speed change so I doubt > it’s the surface of the governor disk but I will recheck. > > Ron > > From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron > via Phono-L > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 12:47 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Cc: Andrew Baron > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem > > Governor flywheel friction surface cleaned of ALL old residue, polished, and > fresh oil on the leather friction pads? Also, look closely at the flywheel as > it spins to verify that your screw loosening/tightening on the weight springs > indeed yielded the desired result. Run the motor as slowly as it will run > when making this observation, if there’s any doubt. The slower speed will > more readily reveal eccentricities. Check also for your problem at various > tensions of the mainspring — is it just as bad across the board, or more > noticeable when more fully wound or more relaxed? Deviations here would point > to mainspring coils sticking together, despite your observations. A > mainspring under tension, where the turns of its coils bear hard one upon the > other, will exhibit different behavior than what you can observe in a static > test. It may be necessary to do a thorough cleaning of the spring out of the > barrel, as well as the barrel muck itself, followed by a reinstall with > appropriate new lubricant. The most perfect regulating system (governor > setup) won’t iron out uneven delivery of power to the governor and turntable > platter. The underlying fault will be somewhat muted by the turntable > platter’s flywheel effect, so it is likely more pronounced than it would seem > with the platter on the spindle, and may be easier to pin down with the > platter removed. You’re already doing all the right things by being observant > and dealing with the visible issues, now look more closely for the subtler > ones. There are other possible causes beyond what I’ve outlined above, but > it’s best to check for these issues first. > > Best of luck and keep us posted. > > Andrew Baron > Alpine Clock Repair, LLC > Santa Fe > > > On Dec 20, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > wrote: > > If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s) What is your take on the > situation? Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a > constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from > the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring out. > A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear plate was > removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been loosened, and > tightened after the governor has spun around for a while. bearing points are > well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)? > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison DD problem
Governor flywheel friction surface cleaned of ALL old residue, polished, and fresh oil on the leather friction pads? Also, look closely at the flywheel as it spins to verify that your screw loosening/tightening on the weight springs indeed yielded the desired result. Run the motor as slowly as it will run when making this observation, if there’s any doubt. The slower speed will more readily reveal eccentricities. Check also for your problem at various tensions of the mainspring — is it just as bad across the board, or more noticeable when more fully wound or more relaxed? Deviations here would point to mainspring coils sticking together, despite your observations. A mainspring under tension, where the turns of its coils bear hard one upon the other, will exhibit different behavior than what you can observe in a static test. It may be necessary to do a thorough cleaning of the spring out of the barrel, as well as the barrel muck itself, followed by a reinstall with appropriate new lubricant. The most perfect regulating system (governor setup) won’t iron out uneven delivery of power to the governor and turntable platter. The underlying fault will be somewhat muted by the turntable platter’s flywheel effect, so it is likely more pronounced than it would seem with the platter on the spindle, and may be easier to pin down with the platter removed. You’re already doing all the right things by being observant and dealing with the visible issues, now look more closely for the subtler ones. There are other possible causes beyond what I’ve outlined above, but it’s best to check for these issues first. Best of luck and keep us posted. Andrew Baron Alpine Clock Repair, LLC Santa Fe > On Dec 20, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > wrote: > > If anyone is still here on the mailing list(s) What is your take on the > situation? Problem: Edison Diamond Disc single spring motor does not keep a > constant speed. Spring does not seem to be caked with grease, judging from > the several inner coils one can pull out without having the whole spring out. > A small amount of grease was added. Old grease under the bull gear plate was > removed and fresh grease added. Governor screws have been loosened, and > tightened after the governor has spun around for a while. bearing points are > well oiled, gears lightly greased. Solution(s)? > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org <http://phono-l.org/> > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > <mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza speed readout needle chatter
minimum appear more polished, indicating a history of (normal) rubbing. They could still be in tolerance however unless they measure out of round with a caliper. All this conjecture about worn holes is based solely on your comments about the problem manifesting only across a narrow portion of the speed range. For a condition where vibration of the needle is present across the entire speed spectrum, I would focus on resolving the source of the vibration, which could be as simple as refreshing the mounting pads between the motor housing and motor board. Vibration transferred to the motor board from the motor, could result in sympathetic vibration from the motor board to the indicator frame mounted under it, even if there is no wear at the indicator frame holes and arbors. In this case, you can ignore nearly all of the above. Ultimately, if the inidcator assembly is worn and replacements weren’t readily available, they could be restored to their factory tolerances. Best and good luck. Keep me posted on what you learn, Andrew Baron Santa Fe, NM > On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:47 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L > wrote: > > Hello to all! I hope someone can help me with this incredibly annoying > problem: the speed indicator mech of one of my Credenza X's chatters at 78rpm > It's fine at 80, it's fine at 90 (I have a Hughes adapter I use for Pathé > verticals), and it's fine below 77. But right at 78 to 79rpm, it chatters. > > It's pretty obviously the contact point between the leather nib and the > governor disc -- once it's up to speed, it bounces instead of riding smoothly > against the surface. I've cleaned the disc and even held some 2400 sandpaper > against it, I've replaced the leather nib with fresh leather shoestring of > two different gauges (one which was sold specifically as material for > phonograph brakes), I've soaked the nibs in oil, I've slathered them with > lithium grease… Nothing helps. I can get a few plays without chatter if I > apply more grease, or clean off the grease that's there (same result -- > "disturbing" that contact point in either way helps for a few plays). > > Anyone else ever had to deal with this? > > Thanks in advance, > Robert > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] "Sprung" Platter
Is the visible gap at the spindle hole or between the platter and hub? Further to my earlier suggestions, this would require a machine shop if you don’t have the tools, and it might be cheaper ultimately to buy a straight replacement platter from George Vollema. Regarding a cross pin in a substitute arbor/spindle, this would’t bend if it’s made of hard steel, like clock pivot wire, but again, this all may be too much work if you have replacement alternatives and would otherwise have to pay machine shop fees. Andrew Baron Santa Fe, NM On Dec 11, 2016, at 2:06 PM, John Selph via Phono-L <phono-l@oldcrank.org> wrote: > The platter has been removed and is just sitting on the spindle right now. > The problem is that it is warped and you can see a slight gap at the platter > spindle joint where the platter itself has been distorted. > > From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of harvey > kravitz via Phono-L > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 7:04 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Cc: harvey kravitz > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] "Sprung" Platter > > I have a VV 1-1, and here is how I removed the turntable. I would saturate > the spindle with either penetrating oil, liquid wrench or Kroil. Let the oil > seep into the spindle and the turntable. After a few hours, put a couple of > small pry bars underneath the turn table. Do not force this Take a > standard hammer and lightly tap the spindle. The turn table should pop off. > You might have to use the oil in more than one application. The important > thing is to be very gentle. These were very cheaply made machines, and > delicate. This method will work on other machines with stuck turn tables. > Harvey Kravitz > > > From: John Selph via Phono-L <phono-l@oldcrank.org> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Cc: John Selph <jse...@cox.net> > Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2016 3:15 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] "Sprung" Platter > > Anyone know of a way to repair a “sprung” platter? Apparently someone > attempted to remove the platter on a VV 1-1 by prying and the platter is now > warped. I was thinking of possibly using a press to apply pressure and > placing a tack weld on the “high” side of the platter/hub connection. Would > this work? > Thanks. > John > > "Once in the wilds of Afghanistan I lost my corkscrew, and we were forced to > live on nothing but food and water for days." W. C. Fields > > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://post.spmailtech.com/f/a/osjPIY8i7ysqgDIkvjgzJA~~/AABF2wA~/RgRaL2rCP0EIAKwjufb6fBNXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb180YAw1Mi4zOS4xNTQuMTZCCgACQjdOWOpTETdSGGFyY2hpdmVAbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlLmNvbQlRBABEEmh0dHA6Ly9waG9uby1sLm9yZ0cCe30~ > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://post.spmailtech.com/f/a/osjPIY8i7ysqgDIkvjgzJA~~/AABF2wA~/RgRaL2rCP0EIAKwjufb6fBNXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb180YAw1Mi4zOS4xNTQuMTZCCgACQjdOWOpTETdSGGFyY2hpdmVAbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlLmNvbQlRBABEEmh0dHA6Ly9waG9uby1sLm9yZ0cCe30~ > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] "Sprung" Platter
Hi John ~ I take it that the platter is already off or at least removable at this point, and the platter itself isn’t level with the hub? My approach, one of any number of ways that people might come up with, but this is what comes to mind, would be to fabricate a temporary substitute spindle/arbor that passes fully through the hub spindle socket, perhaps with about four inches of substitute arbor exposed on both sides of the platter. This is not meant to be used in the phonograph but just for straightening the platter. To make it a precise fit, both for truing purposes and to avoid hub socket damage, duplicate any taper in the original spindle, onto the new turned arbor. You’ll also need to replicate the cross pin if there is one, so the platter can lock onto the substitute arbor. Come to think of it, this might be necessary if your fit is otherwise precise. WORK HOLDING: Ideally, a decent sized lathe, say 6” to 10” (“ is max diameter of what the lathe can turn), with a three or four jaw chuck in the headstock and a Jacob’s chuck in the tailstock, each chuck securely tightened on your substitute arbor. You can use the lathe’s own tool post or any kind of fixture to gauge the deviation of the warp in the platter as you HAND turn the arrangement. This will show you clearly where the platter is high or low, and how far from true it is. With the substitute spindle, securely held providing a rigid mass to work against, you can then more accurately manage how far you push the platter, and where to push it. If necessary you can make a large clamp from a piece of 4” x 4” x 3/4" thick wood (to press against the underside of the platter), and a similar piece to clamp to the platter surface, which in turn can be clamped together, sandwiching the platter tightly, with a large carpenter’s clamp, which will also afford you a convenient handle to make your corrections. Don’t overdo it. Mark the platter edge with a sharpie or chalk (easily removable), at the approximate limits of where the distortion appear to be, so if you have to adjust the clamp and try again, you don’t lose track of where you’ve been. You can mark 1, 2, 3, etc., for each adjustment. You’ll be hand turning the platter & substitute spindle several times, probably before you get it where it needs to be. It also takes some keen observation to decide whether you’re pulling the platter up from or down in relation to the hub. If you get it wrong, don’t worry, as long as your end result is true. The point is, you have to work against mass and have a way to control your manipulations. You may find that moderate heat helps, but be careful not to overdo it or you can have the project go drastically wrong. The idea of a tack weld isn’t unreasonable, but you end up with something that’s far from factory condition, and if it’s otherwise a nice machine, a detractor. Regarding Harvey’s recommendations for freeing a stuck platter, I would add that PB Blaster has always worked better for me than Liquid Wrench or any other penetrating oil product. I would recommend also not to use a steel hammer, but a sufficiently heavy brass one, or a hard plastic mallet. Otherwise you risk getting a flat spot on your spindle top. An alternative would be to place a piece of hardwood over the spindle before you whack it. Harvey’s recommendation to support each side and hold it under tension is good. If you don’t have the means to do the warp repair yourself, share this recommendation with a machinist that you can trust, and see what they think. They may have a better idea. Best of luck keeping another worthy phonograph in good shape, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Dec 8, 2016, at 4:15 PM, John Selph via Phono-L <phono-l@oldcrank.org> wrote: > Anyone know of a way to repair a “sprung” platter? Apparently someone > attempted to remove the platter on a VV 1-1 by prying and the platter is now > warped. I was thinking of possibly using a press to apply pressure and > placing a tack weld on the “high” side of the platter/hub connection. Would > this work? > Thanks. > John > > "Once in the wilds of Afghanistan I lost my corkscrew, and we were forced to > live on nothing but food and water for days." W. C. Fields > > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://post.spmailtech.com/f/a/23BmiNJA_psXHNfh5z_y1w~~/AABF2wA~/RgRaK6_wP0EIAmwk-aSYQDFXA3NwY1gEAFkGc2hhcmVkYQdoZWxsb180YAw1Mi4zOS4xNTQuMTZCCgAJcHxKWA48vDVSGGFyY2hpdmVAbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlLmNvbQlRBABEEmh0dHA6Ly9waG9uby1sLm9yZ0cCe30~ > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Orthophonic vs. Electric?
When comparing the Edison DD to a Victor Orthophonic, it's best to think of them in terms of their complete systems rather than the horn of one vs. the horn of the other. Wouldn't it be an interesting experiment to connect the output of an Edison DD reproducer on an Edison DD phonograph playing one of the better DD records, to the input of a Victor Credenza horn? It wouldn't necessarily be a marriage made in heaven (I assume it would be quite a mismatch of impedances, or the acoustic analog thereof), but it would be interesting to observe. The systems that each company independently employed (Edison DD; Victor Orthophonic) obviously have no physical resemblance whatsoever, neither horn nor reproducer nor tone arm, and yet sonically the Edison was way ahead of the pack until the Orthophonic machines came out. There's just no comparison when comparing an especially good Edison DD record (with quiet surface) played on an upscale Edison DD machine, with ANY of the contemporary competitors for sheer naturalness of tone and overtones that the DD system was capable of. The DD machines had superior sound in 1913, by far, than anything else until a dozen years later when the Orthophonic came out. And even then, the right record on a good DD machine will give an Orthophonic Credenza a run for its money, even records made acoustically in the early 'teens compared to electric recordings in the mid '20s. Though the right record on a Credenza will often edge out the Edison, it's can be a close race in some cases, and a little like the Volvo Amazon outrunning the Ferrari in the celebrated YouTube video. Edison had a truly souped-up acoustic system developed by the end of 1912, that in real life would be unfair to compare to the electric system of 1925, and yet, the Edison system can hold its own in this chronologically and technologically skewed contest. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Orthophonic vs. Electric?
Hi Ron and all ~ Using a Kent adapter or similar device, yes, much easier, and the reverse of my supposition. It seems to me that a test done in both directions would be more informative than one or the other in isolation. Steve Medved just brought this fascinating YouTube video to my attention, to be shared as part of this discussion, attributed to Carsten Fischer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQw4K80QtM It's an interesting video and certainly the methods represent out-of-the-box, if not pseudo-scientific thinking: The Edison side of a salvaged Brunswick Ultona reproducer housing (with the full needle bar, similar to the Edison needle bar, etc.), other side (lateral side) eliminated and blocked off (ostensibly sealed against air leaks), and a short connecting tube to mate it to Victor 10-50 (!), to take advantage of the folded exponential horn. The modified Brunswick housing is equipped with a Victor Orthophonic Duralumin diaphragm (in hill-and-dale mode), and the presenter adds silent editorial comments as superimposed text, allowing the sound he recorded with a small condenser mic to let us hear the result. Very hard, even with larger speakers to get a sense of the real value of the experiment, which expect is due to the limitations of his recording method. Other limiting factors, or at least factors that make this somewhat less than an apples to apples test, is that the Brunswick system, or in this case the Brunswick parts adapted to the Victor arm) doesn't quite replicate the Edison Diamond Disc machine's tracking compliance in at least two ways: (a) I suspect that the compliance of the stylus to the groove would be adversely affected by the tracking force necessarily including the mass of the modified apparatus plus a portion of the Victor's tone arm (rather than as in the Edison system of it being limited to the tracking weight distributed more uniformly around the stylus), and (b) the necessity in this setup of the groove having to propel the entire equipment across as the record plays rather than the floating arrangement of the automatic tracking Edison DD system. I think these factors might combine to make for a more rigid, and quite possibly less responsive arrangement of groove, stylus and transferred acoustic energy to the horn. I think it's a fascinating choice to use the paper-thin Victor Duralumin diaphragm. The presenter tells us that mica will also work, but one can imagine it would narrow the dynamic range. However the mounting of the diaphragm as can be seen might possibly be hampered by an oversized retaining insulator, which also looks rather thick and one or both of these could impede the response. Another aspect that was bothering me a little was that the turntable dips and rises as it spins around (bent platter, as the spindle remains relatively true). This would have the effect of alternately adding and subtracting from whatever norm in the diaphragm's loading that the presenter was able to achieve with this modified arrangement of parts. The up and down, added to the more rigid load of also having to move the entire mass of reproducer and tone arm (add another intermediate joint in the Victor arm to the equation for the vertical accommodation of the uneven platter, and whatever differences in compliance and greater side-wall groove contact might be present, and for me it starts to be an interesting but not very accurate measure of how an Edison record, played as engineered, would sound through one of the large Orthophonic horns. I also have to wonder about the plumbing between the tone arm and the horn, and if this might also be a factor? Steve, Greg, others, are there other things I may be missing here? In the short term this video remains a fascinating study of one approach to answering the question about Edison DD through Orthophonic horn and you certainly have to credit the presenter with taking the time to investigate and document his findings. It would be interesting to take a purer approach, using a true DD reproducer, tracking as designed, and airtight, low-loss connection to the top of a Credenza or similarly large Orthophonic horn. Perhaps measure the difference in response with ears as well as spectrum analyzer... Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 16, 2014, at 6:58 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: Doing the comparison the other way around is easier, an orhtophonic record on an Edison DD with a good lateral adaptor and Orthophonic reproducer. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 5:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Orthophonic vs. Electric? When comparing the Edison DD to a Victor Orthophonic, it's best to think of them in terms of their complete systems rather than the horn of one vs. the horn of the other. Wouldn't it be an interesting
Re: [Phono-L] Orthophonic vs. Electric?
Thanks Greg for this wonderfully concise and broadly comprehensive treatise. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 15, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: Here's the short history of the fidelity of recorded sound: The earliest acoustic recording technology was VERY midrangey with no bass and no treble being recorded into the grooves. Likewise, the earliest acoustic players were also VERY midrangey and incapable of reproducing bass or treble. When you listen to an early acoustic record on an early acoustic player, they don't really complement each other so much as they do the same damage to the sound. They sound like a loud telephone. That is, you get a VERY, VERY or double-midrangey sound. The orthophonic era brought with it much more extended and flatter frequency response in both bass and treble, both in the recording equipment and in the acoustic playback. The net effect of playing an early electric recording on an acoustic orthophonic player is one of flatter, more extended frequency response. In short, a BIG improvement over the pre-ortho days. If you play an acoustic record on an ortho player, it sounds le ss midrangey and blatty than when played on an early player. Some people don't like this sound and consider it not authentic, but it is actually flatter response than the complementary noise you get from a pre-ortho player. Likewise, if you play an electric recording on an old acoustic player, you get a more blatty midrangey sound than if you play it on a more modern player. The earliest electronic players were actually worse sounding than the contemporary ortho acoustic players. The Victor 9-40, for example, which has both ortho acoustic as well as early electronic playback sounds better in the ortho acoustic mode than it does in the all-electronic mode. The reason is that the earliest electronics and speakers were pretty primitive. The early Victor electric players were odd designs in that they used an electric reproducer-driver that was amplified by the orthophonic horn. This would have worked out better if the driver design was better, but the net effect did not produce as good a fidelity as the contemporary all-acoustic players. They will play loudly, but their frequency response is pretty poor. The electronic players from most manufacturers were generally not very good until about 1929. The Victor RE-45 of 1929 was a revelation to listeners back then. It is vastly improved over the earlier designs, and it compares very favorably with much more modern players. If you are a collector of 1920s vintage radios, made it a point to listen to a Victor RE-45 or RE-75 radio/phono combination. The same radio and speaker was also used the in the radio-only models R-32 and R-52. There was no finer sounding radio set or radio/phono made in 1929. Electric recording playback on one of these sets is genuinely satisfying. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Richard richard_ru...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:03 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Orthophonic vs. Electric? I've never owned an orthophonic machine, but have recently been offered the chance to buy one (see other post), and I'm wondering if I should. My main concern has been one of sound quality; I've always suspected that acoustic records sound better on older, acoustic machines, and orthophonic/electric records sound best on electric machines. But this opportunity has me wondering: How do orthophonic/electric records sound when played on an orthophonic machine sound compared to when they're played on an electric machine (say, from the late 1920's or early 1930's)? All opinions are welcome, but what I'm really looking for is a comparison -- not just better or worse, but how they're different. And how do older acoustic records sound on an orthophonic machine? (In my humble opinion, they don't sound all that great on an electrical machine.) Finally, if I were to add one orthophonic machine to my collection someday, which one would you recommend if my top consideration is soun d q uality? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Article on Caruso Museum in Bklyn and future of large collections
An unusually well-written article. And a prescient reminder in the closing thoughts, as you pointed out. Thanks Steve. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:24 AM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: This article in today's Wall Street Journal should be of interest. It's about Aldo Mancusi's Caruso Museum and collection. Here is link which should be good for a few days: http://tinyurl.com/k8y2p3h I'll particularly point out the last sections where they discuss the future of Aldo's collection. It seems to parallel that of Miles Krueger's American Musicals Collection. collection. Steve Ramm ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Edison DD feature chronology?
Hi Esteemed Group ~ Does there exist any documentation that could shed light on when two features were added to the DD machines? A young friend (actually my RCATheremin.com co-creator Mike Buffington), today acquired his first antique phonograph -- The popular Edison Diamond Disc BC-34. He's always interested in the historical details and would enjoy knowing when this machine was made, or nearly when. The features I'm wondering about, that this example has, are: a) 10 12 inch tone arm stop buttons (as in the Edison Long-play machines); b) The shock-proof governor assembly. The serial number is 45005 and I think I read in Frow that the BC-34 production run reached around 52,000 units and production was concluded in August 1927. I guess this makes it a late '26 or early '27 machine? Anyone know when the above mentioned features were introduced? Best to all, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE!
Learning is ultimately what it's all about. Or was it the Hokey Pokey? I get confused... I'm a pop-up book designer (among other things), so one foot is always in the publishing world. My pop-up website is www.popyrus.com. Best, Andrew On Sep 10, 2013, at 8:05 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Thank you, Andrew! Steve really is second to none. All of our reproducers sound like the one in the video. Loud, clear and beautiful! We very much appreciate your opinion on the authenticity of the machine. We feel like we have learned so much in the past two weeks! It has been so much fun. As I said, we are going to continue to find out as much as we can about its history. We will be sure to keep updating the group as we learn more. There will definitely be at least one follow up video when it is completed. Incidentally, are you a writer or a teacher? The wording in your emails is just wonderful! :) Thanks so much again! Melissa From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE! That would explain the great sound. I'm also a recipient of Steve's expertise and labor, and count myself very fortunate to be able to say that. Regarding the choice of a Victor III for the Vernis-Martin finish, it wouldn't be the first time that a less than top-of-the-line Victor or Victrola was given this treatment. No doubt in my mind about what you have. The images of the artistic graphics lurking beneath the gold paint are at once haunting, inspiring and compelling. Thanks again for sharing your find and taking the time to produce the video and make it available. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 9, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Thank you so much, Andrew! What a nice email. The reason the sound is so good is because Steve Medved rebuilt that reproducer for us! Unfortunately, the machine did not come with its reproducer, so we put one of our extra ones on it for testing. Steve does such a great job on our reproducers! Thanks again, Melissa From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE! A hearty congratulations Melissa, and thanks for the update. A truly inspiring progress report. Great to see the mandolin and roses under the existing gold paint, and the machine sounds wonderful. How satisfying it must be to have it alive again with its new mainsprings. Looks like new reproducer gaskets and flange as well, underscoring a triumphant recording. Machines like this, that are so rare and have survived more than a century through questionable practices and poor conditions, have real stories to tell. Thanks for sharing this one. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hello Everyone, Here is an update on our Mystery Victor III. First, we would like to thank everybody who emailed us with advice and help! You are all wonderful! We were emailed off list about what we now know we really have. It turns out that back in the day, Victor made special custom made cabinet styles for the ultra wealthy. When you are that wealthy, you could get pretty much anything you wanted including a gold Victor with hand painted figures on the sides and all gold plated hardware! The style is called Vernis-Martin and was apparently pretty popular with those who could afford it. The different columns, cabinet style and color were all a special order, which now makes perfect sense. The patent plate was originally on the inside so that it wouldn’t cover the flowers. We were wondering why there were no extra pinholes anywhere on the outside of the cabinet. Now we know. We assumed correctly that the machine had been re-painted during its lifetime and unfortunately, the person who “restored” it painted fresh gold paint right over the original finish and the hand painted decorations! Once we cleaned the cabinet up, you could clearly see a mandolin, sheet music and roses with leaves under the topcoat of paint. You can also see the original bright gold leaf under the ugly new paint. We are in the process of finding an expert in restoring these types of finishes and getting a formal appraisal. It is a good thing we were contacted about this when we were. We were all set to strip the cabinet and refinish it last weekend! What a disaster that would have been. Below is a link to see the machine running for the first time. The machine had two broken springs that we just replaced along with a good motor cleaning. I tried to get a good shot of the mandolin on the left side of the cabinet. I hope you can see it through the paint
Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE!
That would explain the great sound. I'm also a recipient of Steve's expertise and labor, and count myself very fortunate to be able to say that. Regarding the choice of a Victor III for the Vernis-Martin finish, it wouldn't be the first time that a less than top-of-the-line Victor or Victrola was given this treatment. No doubt in my mind about what you have. The images of the artistic graphics lurking beneath the gold paint are at once haunting, inspiring and compelling. Thanks again for sharing your find and taking the time to produce the video and make it available. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 9, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Thank you so much, Andrew! What a nice email. The reason the sound is so good is because Steve Medved rebuilt that reproducer for us! Unfortunately, the machine did not come with its reproducer, so we put one of our extra ones on it for testing. Steve does such a great job on our reproducers! Thanks again, Melissa From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE! A hearty congratulations Melissa, and thanks for the update. A truly inspiring progress report. Great to see the mandolin and roses under the existing gold paint, and the machine sounds wonderful. How satisfying it must be to have it alive again with its new mainsprings. Looks like new reproducer gaskets and flange as well, underscoring a triumphant recording. Machines like this, that are so rare and have survived more than a century through questionable practices and poor conditions, have real stories to tell. Thanks for sharing this one. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hello Everyone, Here is an update on our Mystery Victor III. First, we would like to thank everybody who emailed us with advice and help! You are all wonderful! We were emailed off list about what we now know we really have. It turns out that back in the day, Victor made special custom made cabinet styles for the ultra wealthy. When you are that wealthy, you could get pretty much anything you wanted including a gold Victor with hand painted figures on the sides and all gold plated hardware! The style is called Vernis-Martin and was apparently pretty popular with those who could afford it. The different columns, cabinet style and color were all a special order, which now makes perfect sense. The patent plate was originally on the inside so that it wouldn’t cover the flowers. We were wondering why there were no extra pinholes anywhere on the outside of the cabinet. Now we know. We assumed correctly that the machine had been re-painted during its lifetime and unfortunately, the person who “restored” it painted fresh gold paint right over the original finish and the hand painted decorations! Once we cleaned the cabinet up, you could clearly see a mandolin, sheet music and roses with leaves under the topcoat of paint. You can also see the original bright gold leaf under the ugly new paint. We are in the process of finding an expert in restoring these types of finishes and getting a formal appraisal. It is a good thing we were contacted about this when we were. We were all set to strip the cabinet and refinish it last weekend! What a disaster that would have been. Below is a link to see the machine running for the first time. The machine had two broken springs that we just replaced along with a good motor cleaning. I tried to get a good shot of the mandolin on the left side of the cabinet. I hope you can see it through the paint on Youtube. Please note that the original crank is missing from this machine so we borrowed one from our other Victor III. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQobeO-HfLwfeature=youtu.be We are thrilled to own such a rare machine and it is going to stay in our collection for a while before we ever consider selling it. We certainly want to make it look as nice as we possibly can while still keeping it as original as possible. We will send a post when we find an expert to remove that top layer of paint and try to restore the images underneath. What we thought was a frankenphone turned out to be something special. You never know what you’re going to come across at an auction! Happy Hunting. J Melissa and Nick ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Victor III-UPDATE!
A hearty congratulations Melissa, and thanks for the update. A truly inspiring progress report. Great to see the mandolin and roses under the existing gold paint, and the machine sounds wonderful. How satisfying it must be to have it alive again with its new mainsprings. Looks like new reproducer gaskets and flange as well, underscoring a triumphant recording. Machines like this, that are so rare and have survived more than a century through questionable practices and poor conditions, have real stories to tell. Thanks for sharing this one. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 8, 2013, at 5:52 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hello Everyone, Here is an update on our Mystery Victor III. First, we would like to thank everybody who emailed us with advice and help! You are all wonderful! We were emailed off list about what we now know we really have. It turns out that back in the day, Victor made special custom made cabinet styles for the ultra wealthy. When you are that wealthy, you could get pretty much anything you wanted including a gold Victor with hand painted figures on the sides and all gold plated hardware! The style is called Vernis-Martin and was apparently pretty popular with those who could afford it. The different columns, cabinet style and color were all a special order, which now makes perfect sense. The patent plate was originally on the inside so that it wouldn’t cover the flowers. We were wondering why there were no extra pinholes anywhere on the outside of the cabinet. Now we know. We assumed correctly that the machine had been re-painted during its lifetime and unfortunately, the person who “restored” it painted fresh gold paint right over the original finish and the hand painted decorations! Once we cleaned the cabinet up, you could clearly see a mandolin, sheet music and roses with leaves under the topcoat of paint. You can also see the original bright gold leaf under the ugly new paint. We are in the process of finding an expert in restoring these types of finishes and getting a formal appraisal. It is a good thing we were contacted about this when we were. We were all set to strip the cabinet and refinish it last weekend! What a disaster that would have been. Below is a link to see the machine running for the first time. The machine had two broken springs that we just replaced along with a good motor cleaning. I tried to get a good shot of the mandolin on the left side of the cabinet. I hope you can see it through the paint on Youtube. Please note that the original crank is missing from this machine so we borrowed one from our other Victor III. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQobeO-HfLwfeature=youtu.be We are thrilled to own such a rare machine and it is going to stay in our collection for a while before we ever consider selling it. We certainly want to make it look as nice as we possibly can while still keeping it as original as possible. We will send a post when we find an expert to remove that top layer of paint and try to restore the images underneath. What we thought was a frankenphone turned out to be something special. You never know what you’re going to come across at an auction! Happy Hunting. J Melissa and Nick ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola Spring Re-greasing question
Hi John ~ I've just read your question and Rich's answer. I agree, you should bend just sufficient to release -- no need to bend them perfectly straight up, etc. Also, you may find that you can get away with leaving some leaning in quite a bit (very minimal bending). As long as you can tilt one end out, that may be all you need to liberate the other. It's better to err on the side of not bending enough. You can always bend a little more, incrementally. Regarding sending them out, I had an unpleasant experience with one of the major antique phonograph suppliers, who sell parts and do mainspring and other servicing. It took a very long time to get my spring barrels back (a 2-spring Brunswick setup with a nice, machined nickel-plated spacer between the barrels), and when it finally did come back the spacer was gone and in its place was a stack of mismatched washers! I wanted to save myself an unpleasant job and to this day I've never sent another out. I just take care of it myself. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 2, 2013, at 2:08 PM, john robles wrote: Hello all I have a question. I have an Amberola 75 that I got a a possible trade/sale machine later on. For now I am keeping it. The springs are badly in need of lubrication, and the leaves are coming apart as the machine plays with noisy results. The springs may even need replacement. I have not regreased Amberola springs before, and I see that the barrels are held closed with metal tabs. To clean and grease the spring you have to unbend them. Anyone done this with successful results (i.e. not breaking the tabs while bending)? I am tempted to buy another good spring barrel assembly with quiet, well greased springs for $95 as opposed to doing it myself. If I send it out, it would cost me over $100 to have it done by someone else. I do spring replacement jobs on Edison phonos, but I don't like doing it! What's your advice? John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Phono! Vic 3 or Frankenphone?
Regarding the turntable liberation, I've found that the product PB Blaster works much more effectively than Liquid Wrench or WD40. Any will stain the felt but might be cleaned with a solvent afterward. A soak over night can work wonders, and then the turntable should be leveraged upward by placing the fingers of each hand under the rim at 9 and 3 o'clock and exerting upward force. Based on the rust I see in the photos, this still might need more help, so WHILE exerting a firm and steady upward force with both hands (good thing there's two of you), give the top of the spindle a sharp tap with a hammer. It may take a few tries, but be sure that the penetrating oil has had a chance to do its job, and it's best to use a hard plastic mallet to avoid deforming the spindle top, or taking other precautions. Wedges can also be used in lieu of fingers, if applied simultaneously and exactly opposite each other -- beware that you can bend the spindle if you're not careful, even if using only your hands. Good luck. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 29, 2013, at 4:40 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hi Harvey, Thanks for your insight! Nick is trying to get the turntable off as we speak to check for those extra holes. It is rusted on tight and it has been a long day today so we may wait til the weekend to actually get it off. He says he can see under the turntable and that there do not appear to be any extra holes just the three screws holding the motor on. Thanks again, Melissa From: harvey kravitz harveykrav...@yahoo.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mystery Phono! Vic 3 or Frankenphone? From what I can see the parts are from a later Victor III. The cabinet looks old and original, but not to a Victor III. Did you take off the turn table to see if there were multiple holes in the motor board? If so, that would mean a swapped motor. If not, the cabinet can be new old stock that was modified by the original owner, a dealer, or a handyman. If there are no extra holes in the cabinet, I would strip and refinish it. It would be a very unique machine. Harvey Kravitz From: Melissa Ricci riccib...@yahoo.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org; phonol...@yahoogroups.com phonol...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:34 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Mystery Phono! Vic 3 or Frankenphone? Hello Everyone, Last night, Nick an I won an interesting phonograph at a local junk auction. Someone has spray painted the entire cabinet gold...inside and out! The double spring motor looks to be from a Victor III, the turntable and the upper works appear to be from a Victor III and it came with a ID plate (tacked inside the cabinet) that indicates it is indeed a Victor III. It also came with a nice original wood horn. The problem is, we have never seen a Victor cabinet with this design before. After quite a bit of research, we found that the Vic III came in two cabinet types and neither of them match this one, not even close! We own a late style Victor III to compare it to and it is definitely not the same. Strange. The wood under the terrible gold paint looks old and the back bracket looks to be correct. So we need to find out, is this a Frankenphone made up of Victor III parts with a handmade cabinet or a cabinet from a different machine? I was unable to find any cabinets with the kind of moldings this one has. Here are a few links to pictures we just took. Any ideas are greatly appreciated! http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09701.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09702.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09703.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09704.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09705.jpg.html http://s81.photobucket.com/user/musicalpets/media/Mystery%20Phono/DSC09706.jpg.html Thanks, Melissa ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola 75 serial numbers
Hi Steve ~ Do you have a sense of whether my nickel Diamond C reproducer 48233 would be original to my Amberola 50 Serial #5662? Also, any idea when the Diamond C went from nickel to black paint (year and serial number, more or less)? At a glance it seems the serial number of my Diamond C is way too high for my machine unless one factors in the greater number of Amberola 30's being produced. Still seems like a high reproducer number for the 4-digit machine serial number, but I'd like to get your opinion. This Amberola 50 is otherwise one of the best-preserved I've seen, decent and original outside, mint under the lid, very quiet and smooth low mile motor, etc. Andrew Baron On Aug 24, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Steven Medved wrote: It is a fairly low serial number, I worked on Amberola 30 number 137. My 50 is SM - - - 7488. I believe the 30 50 and 75 all had their own serial numbers as 137 had reproducer serial number 307 on it. SM is spring motor and number 137 did not have that on the ID plate. I believe just under 310,000 of the 30 50 and 75, 60, and 80's were made as I have not seen a Diamond D reproducer over 310,000. Steve Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:15:24 -0700 From: john9...@pacbell.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola 75 serial numbers Hello all I just noticed that the Amberola 75 I purchased at the APS show a couple of weeks ago is serial numbered SM - - - 7072. The three dashes appear on the ID plate. I had not noticed this on other machines. Is this a low serial number? Also, the drawers do not have the clips for record boxes in them as did my last 75. I thought at first that the drawers were replacements, but on close inspection they seem to be original, with no screw holes for the clips. Can anyone enlighten me? Did the earlier machines not have the clips? Or did the earlier ones HAVE the clips and later ones don't? Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] The Edison Phonograph Monthly Question
My set likewise gets enjoyed. It can remain undisturbed on the shelf for months at a time, and then at various times I find myself taking two or three volumes out for bedside table reading at night. Other times I get into some particular Edison phonograph, determine its general date of manufacture, and pull the age-appropriate volumes for reading over breakfast or lunch, to get the flavor of the EPM's promotional and monthly record list material around that particular general period. Like John, I never tire of them. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 22, 2013, at 9:57 PM, John Robles wrote: Fourteen volumes is the whole set. I bought mine 15 years ago and I never tire of it. John Robles On Aug 22, 2013, at 8:43 PM, phonost...@aol.com wrote: Hi Phono Friends, As an avid collector since 1985 of anything Phonograph related, including mostly the common phonographs, records, books, related postcards, record catalogs ect. I am considering selling my 14 exact reproduction, red hard cover books of The Edison Phonograph Monthly by Wendell Moore. I realize the price went down since the contents of these books were put on line, but these books are 'The' originals, excellent condition, and I would like to find them a new home to enjoy. Before I offer my set for sale, I would like to know if I have the complete set! I have Vol 1 through 14. Did Wendell Moore make a Vol. 15, or did I slowly purchase all His great book venture? The last of my EPM Vol. 14 is dated March, 1915. And Thanks to all my phonograph Friends out there, who helped me to learn and enjoy this hobby over these years of collecting and caring of my Phonograph venture!! Sincerely, Joan Lehman Dover, PA ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Electric pen
Hi John ~ A friend sent me this link this morning and I watched the video. This may sound harsh (for me), but I found it to be typically inaccurate media-mill fodder, with a catchy segment title to attract a big audience. Seems they're also catering to the contingent that's hungry to pounce on an Edison failure, perhaps? In reality, wasn't the electric pen Edison's first successful mass-produced product; i.e., mass produced by Edison's own shops and marketed in America and Europe, keeping his first factory quite occupied during its brief heyday? While we know that although the apparatus was hard to maintain by untrained office staff, conceptually the idea was successful enough to attract lumber man A. B. Dick, who with the much simplified Edison's Mimeograph put himself on the map as a major office machine and supplies manufacturer. Certainly it is true that the motorized pen was the ideal basis for the tattoo stylus (or whatever the right word might be). A more accurate brief account than the tv.yahoo video: http://edison.rutgers.edu/pen.htm NOW FOR ACCURACY IN REPORTING Edison's worst invention in terms of unsuccessful marketing, must have been his Electric Vote Recorder, his first issued patent unless I got this from a flawed history book. None were manufactured beyond the prototype. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 16, 2013, at 8:48 PM, john robles wrote: Here is a clip on what was called Thomas Edison's Worst Invention. Of course it is not well researched, but it is an interesting wawtch! http://tv.yahoo.com/video/playlist/primetime/thomas-edisons-worst-invention-061926628.html John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] R S O N tops
I have to chime in here as well. I've always felt that we're all enriched and more than a little honored to be at the receiving end of Steve's wisdom and experience, to make these little (and sometimes not so little) precious machines, all the more pleasurable and rewarding. Thanks, Steve, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 9, 2013, at 11:38 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: Thanks Steve, it is always fun to attend the Medved University on line Reproducers 101 course... Kindest regards, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Professionals - Not in conflict with Loran's request
I understand that Loran has instructed that Chuck and by extension, Steve, resolve their communications off list. So to take this simple request to the letter (as it wasn't directed at me), I see no conflict if I add my voice to what others have posted, in saying that Steve Medved is one of the most honorable individuals that it's been my good fortune to know. His dedication and contributions to this world of preserving and enjoying sounds of the past have been beyond measure. I agree with Steve's comment: I am not a professional and never will be. Thank goodness for that! Almost without exception (or perhaps without exception), the quality of Steve's work, and certainly the extent of his knowledge and experience, is vastly superior to those who call themselves professionals, and who despite the title have a history of putting out substandard, if not outright shoddy work. The world lost a great phonograph specialist when Steve wasn't born twins. Speaking for myself, when I get occupied with the minutia of my own craft, the very quality that enables me to maintain the concentration and high level of the work that I demand of myself, I can sometimes forget to shift gears and apply a less intensive perspective to the mundane logistics of life, which can sometimes remain magnified and out of proportion to what they really are. I have respect for Chuck and his efforts and contributions, as I do for Steve and his long history of devotion to our noble hobby. Andrew Baron popyrus.com/hugo ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] list down?
I got this. Quiet, apparently. Andrew Baron On Mar 7, 2013, at 6:54 AM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I've been asked if the list is not working, so this is a test to satisfy my curiosity. Down or just quiet? Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Go-To Recording for Testing a New Machine / Reproducer
That's a very interesting approach. I think I've trained myself for so long, away from putting late records on earlier machines that I never would have thought of using one as a tool for a reproducer test. On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:39 AM, Steven Medved wrote: I use the latest loudest record I can find so any distortion will show up. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Go-To Recording for Testing a New Machine / Reproducer
Makes perfect sense. If the reproducer passes the test on late loud records, it should do very nicely on the ones it was designed for, and in the event of people subjecting late records to earlier heavy tracking machines with rebuilt reproducers, it should do OK (though awfully hard on the records, and a bit stressful on the ears. Seems like every antique mall has a Victrola with a 1952 MGM record or something like it on the platter. Andrew On Feb 26, 2013, at 11:39 AM, Steven Medved wrote: I want to potentially make the reproducer sound its worst. From: a...@popyrus.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 09:35:37 -0700 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Go-To Recording for Testing a New Machine / Reproducer That's a very interesting approach. I think I've trained myself for so long, away from putting late records on earlier machines that I never would have thought of using one as a tool for a reproducer test. On Feb 26, 2013, at 6:39 AM, Steven Medved wrote: I use the latest loudest record I can find so any distortion will show up. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What?!?
The other machine isn't almost identical, it IS identical. Same nicks in the same places, see the one on the leading edge of the front at the top, about an inch and a half from the right front corner, turntable velvet, etc. So what really is going on here? Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Merle Sprinzen wrote: For an example of what happens when two naïve bidders just have to have something, see the bidding on eBay #111013678879. And there's another almost identical machine on eBay right now by the same seller with a buy-it-now price of $350. But maybe I'm not seeing something that makes this machine extra special. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What?!?
And why would they have one auction with a Buy it Now and one without, unless the first (staged?) one was designed to make an unwary buyer think that they were getting a screaming deal to do the B.I.N. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 24, 2013, at 11:28 AM, aph4...@aol.com wrote: Merle, Have you noticed that the one sold and the one for sale for $350 are the same machine? Same seller. Mumbai, India. Very fishy. --Art Heller In a message dated 2/24/2013 10:51:59 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, msprin...@gmail.com writes: For an example of what happens when two naïve bidders just have to have something, see the bidding on eBay #111013678879. And there's another almost identical machine on eBay right now by the same seller with a buy-it-now price of $350. But maybe I'm not seeing something that makes this machine extra special. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] What?!?
Great point. I hadn't gotten that far in my thinking. I wonder if the seller can simply report that the high bidder was a deadbeat. Perhaps as long as Paypal doesn't see the purported funds, this might be easy for them to do. Still it seems they'd have listing fees, which would be minimal. Andy On Feb 24, 2013, at 12:39 PM, aph4...@aol.com wrote: Andy, If the first auction were to have been staged by shill bidders, and the item sold, would they not have to pay a hefty fee to eBay for the sale at that lofty amount? --Art Heller In a message dated 2/24/2013 12:27:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: And why would they have one auction with a Buy it Now and one without, unless the first (staged?) one was designed to make an unwary buyer think that they were getting a screaming deal to do the B.I.N. Andrew Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc grills needed
Another superb grille fabricator is Brian Krapes 17669 W. 58th Drive Golden, CO 80403 briankra...@msn.com He made a new grille and surround (frame) for my A-250 and was responsive to my requirement for matching the exact thickness (there were three different thicknesses used originally on this model), veneered both sides of the fretwork at my request, and other details that were particular to my early example of this model. His work is precise and clean and his rate very reasonable in relation to the quality of the product. Naturally, you would need to apply stain and finish to match your Edison. Good luck, however you choose. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 18, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Phono list: I need to get grills for: A Edison Diamond Disc C-19 : light OAK and Diamond Disc table model, B-19: I think it is a light gum wood. Anyone have a good contact for reproductions? Original would be great however, unlikely. Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Turntable Motor Question
On Feb 15, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: ...shorted turns) means that a few of the loops of wire in the coils are shorted together, causing the current to bypass them. The lecture is a good one, especially regarding the importance of appearing knowledgable (or even better, actually being informed) when talking to a service provider. But with regard to the line copied above, would it be more accurate to state ...causing the current to pass through the shorted group of loops together instead of individually, thus lowering the total resistance. If the current bypassed the shorted turns, it seems like they would be out of circuit. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Orlando show report
What a great report, Steven. Thanks so much for sharing it in such detail. Andrew Baron On Jan 27, 2013, at 11:44 AM, Steven Medved wrote: Thanks, Ron, The early buyers and the dealers were provided with Lunch both days. The first day, Friday, the dealers were set up in the room, no more parking lot victim to the elements. $20 early buyer you were able to be there at 7a.m. on Friday and Saturday from 8 a.m. on. This year the room looked full and there was a lot of nice machines. Steve Andersun brought a Class M with the early seldom seen Automatic reproducer serial number in the 15,000 range with no lettering on the body. The machine had listening tubes and a new brown wax cylinder made of a composite material so you could fully experience the machine. Don Gfell had his wonderful display and brought his brother, an antique dealer with him. Don sold a nice Victor VI with mahogany horn to a man living in Orlando who is beginning to collect and was helped out by people at the show with the other questions he had. Don's horn display is worth the price of admission. Don also has a seldom seen late dome top Model O reproducer. The Rolfs were there with the books they have written and their usual display that is so well done you would not know it began as a flat table. The Rolfs table is a very cheerful place to visit. Rob Mallet was there, another nice person to talk with and visit his display as well. Jean Paul Agnard and his wife were there along with Charlie Hummel, it is amazing how much Charlie fits in those two airline bags. The famous Bob Cole - Richard Brown tables and floor machines were in their normal corner. Harry Ruer stopped by and it was so very wonderful to see him. The Orlando show is not the largest, but it is the most friendly. Harry, Bob, and Richard has done an excellent job of creating a user friendly show that is wonderful to visit. All the dealers I asked were happy. Ron Sitko was there with his wife, my wife enjoyed talking with Ron's Sitko's wife Carole, Harry Ruer, Bob, Richard, and Ron Haring among others. The world famous nice guy Gregg Cline was there doing a live demonstration on how to install his decals on an Opera that was graciously donated by Richard Brown for the show and tell. Gregg makes his decals to look hand painted, he has 17, yes 17 different corners for the Triumph. On eBay I recently saw two triumphs that looked mint to me, they were Cline decals. Is it mint or is it Cline? Some people want his name in mico letters so they can tell. When you shellac over his decals you have a protected decal that look like the ladies in the Edison factory painted them on. Kevin Boerma had some very nice machines, I purchased a rare late 2 minute recorder with the same holder as the four minute from around 1913 for $50. He had a nice Toy Berliner. I spent the whole day talking with people so I did not get a chance to write down all the machines that were there. I got to see a large outdoor roller organ that had amazing volume. With my poor memory for names I cannot list all the sellers who were there. Russ Bruning was there with a repro Berliner reproducer for $100 from the 70's or 80's. The weather was very nice and the door being so close to the dealer parking makes it easy to move the machines in and out. There was a lot of cylinder and disc records there. Ron Haring had 5, yes 5 Edison dealer sample records and Charlie Hummel has the limited 100 count record he made of a DD that was made in 1912 to introduce the machines to the customers, three are known to exist. NEWS FLASH CELEBRITY WATCH: TIM FABRIZIO WAS THERE. He did not have a table but he was there to visit us, what a wonderful treat. Edison created the phonograph, Harry, Bob and Richard created the best show. We did not expect it to be better this year, but it was. Last year is was so nice we did not think it could be any better, but it was. Next year we expect it to be even better, that is where you come in. Make plans to visit us. The hotel is near to the attractions and who would not want to thaw out in January if you live up north. This year I spent around $800 on books, records, reproducer parts and the recorder. I was very pleased, there were bargains at the show along with some very nice people on both sides of the dealer tables. I enjoyed this show immensly, I am looking forward to next year. Steve To: phonol...@yahoogroups.com From: victrol...@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:43:02 -0500 Subject: Re: [phonolist] Orlando show report I would definitely say that Steve's report on the Orlando Antique Phonograph Show is accurate . The meeting hall was pretty much full with dealer and collector tables full of all kind of merchandise for sale. One of the dealers mentioned
Re: [Phono-L] Edison and anti-semitism
Yes Greg, you're absolutely right. I have that title in a little subset of records reserved for this genre, one in which almost no ethnic group or foreign nationality was safe from being parodied. Not to mention sexism. If I recall, it was much the same with Don Rickles, and other more modern comedians, whose stock in trade was insult humor (not always funny, but it seemed to enjoy a popular revival for a while there). Andrew Baron On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: The fact that Americans were more obsessed with immigrants and nationalities 100 years ago than we are today is well illustrated in the Edison BA record #4083 The Argentines, the Portuguese, and the Greeks by Ed Meeker. This is a fun song and one of my favorite BAs, but it also illustrates the popular preoccupation that people had with ethnic and national stereotypes back then. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Michael F. Khanchalian mfkhanchal...@altrionet.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison and anti-semitism You mean you look down on everyone except the Armenians. Come on now George :-) Sent from my iPhone On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:33 AM, George Glastris glast...@comcast.net wrote: Be that as it may, we Greeks look down on everyone else since we are the creators of Western Civilization. As the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding said..Every thing comes from the Greek. Or as my late father would say to his best friends (Mr. Kelley, Mr. Germeroth, and Mr. Freed) When my people were writing the great philosophical books of the ancient world, your people were swinging from trees. Then again, he would remind my mother that HIS family were Corinthian but that HER family were only Thessalian. -Original Message- From: Vinyl Visions Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 10:12 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison and anti-semitism Honestly, growing up in western Michigan, even as a white male I felt somewhat oppressed by the very nature of the clannish ethnic groups. It didn't matter if you were white, what mattered was whether you were Polish or Dutch. For example, the Dutch had bumper stickers that said If you're not Dutch, you're not much. Talk about discrimination... you couldn't buy a house in Zeeland, Michigan without going through an interview with a Dutch realtor - there were no For Sale/Rent signs in Zeeland, even though houses were obviously available. If your last name didn't end with a ski or other Polish ending you weren't accepted on the west side of Grand Rapids and the blacks were all located in their own section of town, because to avoid the busing and integration laws each small community that made up the total of Grand Rapids proper, incorporated into their own small towns. Benton Harbor, Michigan is a prime example: in the 1950's it was predominately white, but in the 60 's a nd 70's as blacks moved in - whites moved out across the river to St Joseph... the last time I was there, Benton Harbor was referred to as Benton Harlem and St Joseph was almost totally white. From: rpm...@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 23:44:50 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Edison and anti-semitism Given when he was born, where he lived, and his own ethnic and cultural group, I would be surprised if he were either more or less anti-semitic than others in the United States who weren't themselves Jewish. It wasn't remarkable for a Christian home owner to want to sell his home to another Christian; for a Christian employer to want a Christian employee. What we have here, I think, is a kind of social distance felt by one social and cultural group from another. In my own lifetime, newspaper advertisements for houses for sale or apartments to rent in New York City included clues in their texts about who they wanted, e.g. --- churches nearby --- carrying with it an implication of who they *did not* want. Edison was a man of his time, place, and background. paul charosh ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] update that Triumph or not?
The idea of drilling three big holes in something that's survived more than a 100 years in its original state is somewhat troubling, especially in a high-class, lower-production model like the Triumph. How about making a custom thin steel bracket that hangs over the back edge of the cabinet, similar to what you'd use to hang a Christmas wreath from your door, but wide enough to fasten the usual signet bracket to, with low-profile machine screw heads (or better yet, counter-sunk into the intermediate bracket/hangar and facing rearward; i.e., the nuts would be on the outer part of the signet bracket instead of inside the cabinet? It might require adding shims under the top hinge leaves to bump the motor board up enough to clear the thickness of the custom metal bracket (felt pads on the front corners to keep things level). The mass of the horn and support rods would ensure that the combination custom sheetmetal signet bracket assembly rests firmly against the outside rear panel of the cabinet. Lining the back of the intermediate bracket with green turntable felt (after securing the signet bracket to it and tightening the hardware of course) would protect the finish from the metal edges of the new bracket. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:18 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I've got a Triumph in for clean up and reproducer repair and the owner said that when he got it, he was given the original signet horn set up for the machine but it was never installed. Indeed, there are no holes in the back of the case. He was wondering if he should install it or not. So what would you do in a case like this, leave it as original, uninstalled, or complete the installation? Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Regina (or like) Music Box in Orange Cnty, CA
Hi Robert ~ I'm not in touch with the music box dealers in California, but there's a great article that would be of use to you in considering a prospective machine; not so much about the array of choices, but about assessing the cost of various mechanical issues, from minor to major, including missing teeth on the combs, etc. I see this link is for part 4 of a series on purchasing, so I would check out the other parts as well. The author is not only an authority, but writes in a very accessible and extraordinarily informative style. http://www.intertique.com/PurchasingMusicBoxPart4.html Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Nov 19, 2012, at 11:40 AM, rk...@cox.net wrote: My wife wants a Regina or Polyphon type disc player. I know enough about phonos to buy something online but not music boxes. Do you know of a store or booth or individual in Southern California that we could visit this week that might have Reginas or that type of antique music player for sale? We appreciate any hints. Thank you, Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Styles of the VV-XII
Hi Bob ~ I believe you have the fourth Victor XII: 501 was the first 502 503 504 Congratulations! It's relatively unlikely that the three earlier s.n.'s will ever surface, so unless/until the unlikely day that one does, you can claim to have the earliest currently known VV-XII. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Oct 28, 2012, at 6:02 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Loran: So... If the Victor VV-XII was the first table model made, and this one has the sn 504 Does that indicate it was the 3rd Victor table phonograph made? later Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Loran Hughes Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 5:19 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Styles of the VV-XII Given that serial numbers started at 501, that would be extremely early. A real find, indeed! Loran On Oct 28, 2012, at 3:58 PM, Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net wrote: Jerry: thanks for the information. I think I have the earlier one as I don't find any fancy molding around the machine at all. the phonograph ID plate has, what must be the sn of: 504 Interesting, the machine also has a company id plate as well. It is from Sherman, and Clay co. from Spokane. I looked it up and they started a store in 1906. OH! I was mistaken, I was able to remove the motor from the motor board. I just needed a little more time and investigation. thanks Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of DeeDee Blais Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 2:16 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Styles of the VV-XII The first style XII is a little plainer than the later XII. The doors over the horn are very thin. The later XII has a bit of fancy trim that runs around the machine under the lid and the doors over the horn are slightly taller. I think the model was made for slightly over a year and production must have been quite evenly split between the two styles. I think the mechanical parts were the same for each style. I think it's very interesting that when Victor introduced less expensive table model Victrolas, like the table model X and slightly later the IX, the top of the horn was open and the motor sat in the horn. Any noise produced by the motor came out through the horn. It must have been an effort to use up the more obsolete motors. One does not normally find evidence where Victor blatantly sacrificed quality and performance. Wouldn't it be interesting to sit in a meeting where these decisions were made by Victor executives? Jerry Blais ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Reproduction mainspring quality
Thanks! Andy On Oct 18, 2012, at 2:57 AM, zonophone2...@aol.com wrote: kuddos to ron he is a great guy also i just got some parts from him in wayne zono In a message dated 10/17/2012 10:31:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kb...@charter.net writes: I have had great service and quality from Ron Sitko for several years. Ken Brekke -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: gregory mogle Subject: [Phono-L] Reproduction mainspring quality Could some of the groups technical folks suggest who currently offers the best quality reproduction mainsprings for a conventional Victrola? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. I'm familiar with most of the common sources. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Source for springs
Thanks Jerry. Andy On Oct 18, 2012, at 1:33 PM, DeeDee Blais wrote: In addition to Ron Sitko, Dwayne Wyatt at Wyatt's Musical Americana is a good source. I believe both fellows will do the spring repair if you prefer. Jerry Blais ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Reproduction mainspring quality
Could some of the groups technical folks suggest who currently offers the best quality reproduction mainsprings for a conventional Victrola? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. I'm familiar with most of the common sources. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Reproduction mainspring quality
Thanks Ken for the suggestion. I appreciate your feedback on my question. Andy On Oct 17, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Ken and Brenda Brekke wrote: I have had great service and quality from Ron Sitko for several years. Ken Brekke -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: gregory mogle Subject: [Phono-L] Reproduction mainspring quality Could some of the groups technical folks suggest who currently offers the best quality reproduction mainsprings for a conventional Victrola? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. I'm familiar with most of the common sources. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] A tale of woe...
Jim's advice is excellent, and a good reminder. If the crack in the slab is too narrow to get the magnet close enough, put the magnet on a sliver of steel (not stainless), and use the sliver as a magnetic extension. A rare earth magnet will improve your chances. Andrew Baron On Sep 19, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Jim Nichol wrote: You need a powerful magnet to get it out of the crack. Jim Nichol On Sep 19, 2012, at 11:03 AM, David Barnett da...@fairlibertyscall.com wrote: It was like a scene from an old movie. I was installing a combo attachment on my Edison Standard and had every in just about the right position. I slightly rotated the mandrel to make sure it still moved smoothly, and the tiny headless set screw in the double-gear piece from the combo kit fell out. I guess I had backed it out a bit too much while working. There I was in one of those sudden slow motion scenes watching in horror as the screw slowly fell and bounced on the case, the workbench, the chair, my foot and the floor while I flailed around trying to stop it's merciless descent into the one crack in the cement floor under the workbench while simultaneously contributing the classic drawn-out dialog line: Oooohhh No So, can anyone help locate that screw? I'd go for that double-gear piece with the screw in it, if need be. I'd get 2 to have a backup (yes, I know I'm sometimes klutsy). Thanks for hearing my tale of woe. David David Barnett da...@fairlibertyscall.com C: 516-398-8668 www.FairLibertysCall.com 3 Ike Place Woodmere, NY 11598 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?
I would add to Ron's comment about substitute rubber for the idler wheel, that an O-ring will indeed provide sufficient traction and makes an attractive alternative to get your platter running smoothly and quietly (provided that the turntable bearings / bushings are well cleaned and properly lubricated). As Ron noted, size (I think in this case diameter) is not critical, as long as it fits the steel idler disc snugly so it can't slip. However the thickness of the O-ring or other alternative tire should be as close to the same as it is on the original tire, or your turntable speed will be too fast or too slow. Andrew On Sep 2, 2012, at 8:54 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: And if it has an idler wheel between the motor's rotating shaft and the turntable edge, its actual size is not critical. You can substitute a rubber O ring. However, a little internet searching will turn up places that will replace the idler's rubber with new to the same size as original. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 8:08 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man? You're welcome Edward. The rubber idler wheel can sometimes be reconditioned -softened and surface-dressed with a chemical. If it has a notable flat spot (from decades resting against the inside of the turntable rim under tension), it will need to be replaced. When these get hard it transfers all kinds of noise to the platter which then acts like a diaphragm to magnify the noise. The motor board, if the motor is bolted directly to it, then acts like a sound board, further amplifying the rattle. The original stylus might have been a metal alloy. One such was called Osmium, which would give more plays than an ordinary steel needle. It could also have been a jewel-tipped metal shank. Electric Admirals from that era with no radio are pretty rare. The repairs are pretty straightforward. Best of luck, Andrew On Sep 2, 2012, at 5:42 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: Andrew, Thank You for taking the time to respond as you did, with all that helpful information! I guessed aright that if the symptoms were described, someone who knows them would indicate a prognosis. I think that since these machines are fairly rare, and yet when working properly play records with a lovely, iconic sound, they should be restored. They're easier on the old records than a Victrola, also, if you like to play them a lot, as I do. I have a great GE phonograph, with an AM radio, that I would estimate to have been available in the 40s, extrapolating from your description of this Admir al. The original stylus must be gone. I got it with a standard steel needle in it. And yes, the garbled music was from the record. There is no radio with this unit, it only plays records. I'll wait and see if anyone in the area responds, but appreciate your making yourself available. I used to know someone in the antique radio club that came down to the Salem, Sounds of Nostalgia show, but it's been awhile. I've lost touch. It would be nice to know who's doing this now. All the Best, : ) Edward In a message dated 9/2/2012 3:01:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: Hi Edward ~ Your Admiral is more likely late pre-war; ca. 1939 to 42, or early post-war; ca. 1946-1947. The symptoms you describe are typical of this technology when it ages, and are: Hardened rubber on the idler wheel (turntable noise); Dead electrolytic capacitors, two to three of these will be found in need of replacement (loud hum and garbled sound). This is a job for a soldering iron, and the correct types and polarity will be needed. These are available. If when you say the music sounds garbled you mean music from a record and not from a built-in radio, then it's a small miracle that your crystal cartridge might actually be good. 99% of these are found dead or substantially diminished in unrestored phonographs of this era. The fact that there's a set screw for the stylus indicates that yours still has the crystal cartridge. These can be rebuilt with a new element if needed (some of the distortion can be from the cartridge), or replaced with a more reliable type of cartridge and stylus. The unit may need some other minor work. Usually motor bearings, idler wheel arbor bushings and platter bearings need de-gumming and new lubrication, and if it has a changer, these usually need some attention as well. On the electronic side, the power cord may be brittle if it's original and certain of the paper capacitors will likely benefit from replacement as these get electrically leaky and can also contribute to distortion. I don't know who in Portland works
Re: [Phono-L] early electric phono repair man? SAFETY comments
Further to Al's comments, if your Admiral was made before 1946 it won't appear in SAMS Photofacts (which started that year), but may appear in the Rider Perpetual Troubleshooters manuals. Your model number might also appear on a printed paper glued to the inside of the cabinet, underneath. Whether plaque or paper, it should clearly show the word Model in front of that number. Other numbers might only be patent dates or chassis number. In some cases the chassis number is used in lieu of model number, to locate the schematics. It will be marked Chassis or simply Ch. in front of the number. Frankly though, for your Admiral none of this should be needed. The loud hum problem you describe is cured simply by matching the replacement filter capacitor values to the original specs. Your originals are likely two capacitors that are combined in one cylindrical cardboard unit, rated between 30 and 50 microfarads at 150 volts, for which a pair of commonly available modern replacements of 47 MFD at 160 volts will work. Distortion can come from degraded smaller capacitors in your unit as well (the little wax covered paper cylinders in the range of .01 to .05 MFD typically), as well as a degraded cartridge. First step in determining whether these are further issues is to replace those larger filter capacitors and see if that clears up the problem. If you can solder properly (even many repair shops turn out questionable solder work), you can make this repair yourself. If you'd like to attempt it feel free to get in touch with me outside of this forum if you like, and I can advise you further on the parts, the replacement procedure and proper solder technique if needed. Thanks Al for the reminder of the hot potentiometer shafts on the Edison C2. I wonder if my C4 is that way (have never thought about it). Andrew On Sep 2, 2012, at 11:15 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: Greetings Edward: I do all my own restorations. When it comes to anything electronic, the first thing you need to know is the model number and serial number. From that you can get to step 2, finding a schematic diagram. I would recommend Peter Wall in San Francisco but he is a long way from you. There must be someone in your area who will do the restoration but likely any professional will charge a hefty fee. The model and serial are likely put on the back of the cabinet or on a plaque attached to the radio or amplifier chassis. Andrew is quite correct about the capacitors being dead. The speakers of that era used the field coil for a choke (inductor) to smooth out the rectified DC in the power supply so when the caps are dead you get 60Hz hum coming from the speaker. You really should never apply full operating current to any old TV or Radio that hasn't worked in years. Bad things can happen quickly to delicate components. Shops specializing in old electronics often have Photofacts or Wiley's service bulletins. Again this starts with the model number. Lastly, don't go poking around when the unit is powered up. Some units like my Edison C2 have HOT potentiometer shafts. I can tell you that to have a few hundred volts surge through your body is no fun. These old units are best safely brought up in line voltage slowly with a variac and made more safe with an isolation transformer. Regards, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?
Hi Edward ~ Your Admiral is more likely late pre-war; ca. 1939 to 42, or early post-war; ca. 1946-1947. The symptoms you describe are typical of this technology when it ages, and are: Hardened rubber on the idler wheel (turntable noise); Dead electrolytic capacitors, two to three of these will be found in need of replacement (loud hum and garbled sound). This is a job for a soldering iron, and the correct types and polarity will be needed. These are available. If when you say the music sounds garbled you mean music from a record and not from a built-in radio, then it's a small miracle that your crystal cartridge might actually be good. 99% of these are found dead or substantially diminished in unrestored phonographs of this era. The fact that there's a set screw for the stylus indicates that yours still has the crystal cartridge. These can be rebuilt with a new element if needed (some of the distortion can be from the cartridge), or replaced with a more reliable type of cartridge and stylus. The unit may need some other minor work. Usually motor bearings, idler wheel arbor bushings and platter bearings need de-gumming and new lubrication, and if it has a changer, these usually need some attention as well. On the electronic side, the power cord may be brittle if it's original and certain of the paper capacitors will likely benefit from replacement as these get electrically leaky and can also contribute to distortion. I don't know who in Portland works on antique radios, but I know you can find someone through the radio collector community out there or a museum. If that fails I restore these types of items but you would incur shipping charges in addition to the usual parts and labor. Good luck with this. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 2, 2012, at 2:26 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: Greetings Phellow Fonoteers, Can anyone recommend a repair man for an electric-powered, 78-player, hopefully in the Portland, Oregon area? I have an Admiral tabletop that's likely from the 1930s. It has some interesting Art Deco features, and has a thumb screw at the head of the tone arm for changing needles. The turntable makes enough noise to stampede the cattle, and when the tubes warm up it hums very loudly, and I fear it will frighten the peasants who have no way of appreciating what manner of sinister experiments are going on here. Also, the music sounds garbled. I suspect it has an electrical short going on but this isn't something I know a lot about, but I don't want to awaken my creation prematurely, or burn our castle down. Anyway, if you know somebody, possibly an antique radio man, I'll call him or her forthwith. Many Thanks, : ) Edward ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Anyone know an early electric phono repair man?
You're welcome Edward. The rubber idler wheel can sometimes be reconditioned -softened and surface-dressed with a chemical. If it has a notable flat spot (from decades resting against the inside of the turntable rim under tension), it will need to be replaced. When these get hard it transfers all kinds of noise to the platter which then acts like a diaphragm to magnify the noise. The motor board, if the motor is bolted directly to it, then acts like a sound board, further amplifying the rattle. The original stylus might have been a metal alloy. One such was called Osmium, which would give more plays than an ordinary steel needle. It could also have been a jewel-tipped metal shank. Electric Admirals from that era with no radio are pretty rare. The repairs are pretty straightforward. Best of luck, Andrew On Sep 2, 2012, at 5:42 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: Andrew, Thank You for taking the time to respond as you did, with all that helpful information! I guessed aright that if the symptoms were described, someone who knows them would indicate a prognosis. I think that since these machines are fairly rare, and yet when working properly play records with a lovely, iconic sound, they should be restored. They're easier on the old records than a Victrola, also, if you like to play them a lot, as I do. I have a great GE phonograph, with an AM radio, that I would estimate to have been available in the 40s, extrapolating from your description of this Admir al. The original stylus must be gone. I got it with a standard steel needle in it. And yes, the garbled music was from the record. There is no radio with this unit, it only plays records. I'll wait and see if anyone in the area responds, but appreciate your making yourself available. I used to know someone in the antique radio club that came down to the Salem, Sounds of Nostalgia show, but it's been awhile. I've lost touch. It would be nice to know who's doing this now. All the Best, : ) Edward In a message dated 9/2/2012 3:01:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: Hi Edward ~ Your Admiral is more likely late pre-war; ca. 1939 to 42, or early post-war; ca. 1946-1947. The symptoms you describe are typical of this technology when it ages, and are: Hardened rubber on the idler wheel (turntable noise); Dead electrolytic capacitors, two to three of these will be found in need of replacement (loud hum and garbled sound). This is a job for a soldering iron, and the correct types and polarity will be needed. These are available. If when you say the music sounds garbled you mean music from a record and not from a built-in radio, then it's a small miracle that your crystal cartridge might actually be good. 99% of these are found dead or substantially diminished in unrestored phonographs of this era. The fact that there's a set screw for the stylus indicates that yours still has the crystal cartridge. These can be rebuilt with a new element if needed (some of the distortion can be from the cartridge), or replaced with a more reliable type of cartridge and stylus. The unit may need some other minor work. Usually motor bearings, idler wheel arbor bushings and platter bearings need de-gumming and new lubrication, and if it has a changer, these usually need some attention as well. On the electronic side, the power cord may be brittle if it's original and certain of the paper capacitors will likely benefit from replacement as these get electrically leaky and can also contribute to distortion. I don't know who in Portland works on antique radios, but I know you can find someone through the radio collector community out there or a museum. If that fails I restore these types of items but you would incur shipping charges in addition to the usual parts and labor. Good luck with this. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Sep 2, 2012, at 2:26 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: Greetings Phellow Fonoteers, Can anyone recommend a repair man for an electric-powered, 78-player, hopefully in the Portland, Oregon area? I have an Admiral tabletop that's likely from the 1930s. It has some interesting Art Deco features, and has a thumb screw at the head of the tone arm for changing needles. The turntable makes enough noise to stampede the cattle, and when the tubes warm up it hums very loudly, and I fear it will frighten the peasants who have no way of appreciating what manner of sinister experiments are going on here. Also, the music sounds garbled. I suspect it has an electrical short going on but this isn't something I know a lot about, but I don't want to awaken my creation prematurely, or burn our castle down. Anyway, if you know somebody, possibly an antique radio man, I'll call him or her forthwith
Re: [Phono-L] Yellow Highlighting (was World War I Victrola ad)
Poignant to see Harry Lauder standing alone on the left; Harry, who threw himself full-force into entertaining the troops in some of the most dangerous spots to boost morale, and all the more after his only son was killed in the war. Andrew On Aug 16, 2012, at 11:58 PM, DanKj wrote: Sticking with the Snob Appeal of Opera, of course.It DID work very well for Victor, as proven by the immense number of Red Seals still found in most collections today (though they are also obviously hardly played!) ... The Boys getting slaughtered Over There must have wanted to hear Billy Murray, Collins Harlan, Jolson, and surely the latest Dance Hits by the Victor Military Band. - Original Message - By the way, I wonder why Victor thought that our troops in the trenches wanted to listen to Caruso, Heifetz, Paderewski, etc. I'm sure that kind of music wouldn't be any more popular then than today with our troops. Jim Nichol ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] NPR phonograph celebrities
Great to hear Don's Gfell's voice in this piece. Fun idea as well, to think of him having Edison's voice recite Our boys made good in France... on the town square amid the revving engines of the vintage vehicles on a summer's eve. It's enlightening also to listen to the audio and read the article at the same time. Some things get as lost in the media jumble as if they were translations from the Chinese on inexpensive product instruction sheets. For example, in the audio, when Nancy Wargo describes the air conditioning on her '49 Chevy as being two windows down at 55 mph, the text version of the article translates it this way: ...even in this heat, she says it can hit 55 mph. I have a '29 Chevy and it'll do slightly better than 60 mph with its original drive train, and it's geared considerably lower than a '49. I should think that Nancy's '49 would do at least 80 or 85, so it's too bad readers (but not listeners) will get the wrong idea. If anyone on this list knows Nancy, it would be interesting to find out. Not the end of the world to get such a simple piece of information so wrong (not to mention completely missing the humor of it), but just the vagaries of a media machine that cares little for accuracy of details, such as Don Gefell's last name. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 7, 2012, at 4:36 PM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: Here's the link to hear the story. You'll note that they MISPELLED Don Gfell's name in the test. _http://www.wbur.org/npr/158201577/cruisin-for-classic-cars-on-a-steamy-summ er-night_ (http://www.wbur.org/npr/158201577/cruisin-for-classic-cars-on-a-steamy-summer-night) Steve Ramm In a message dated 8/6/2012 9:33:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, maff...@bresnan.net writes: While setting at the dinner table in Montana tonight, I was listening to NPr, which made a reference to Milan Ohio. They were talking about restoration of vintage cars. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Influences to our phonographic affinities
Interesting stories. Any news of a next generation of hobbyists is certainly welcome, regardless of how the interest is sparked. At ten years old (Benjamin isn't a bad name for that matter, either!), he was a couple years younger than the usual 12 or 13 that most get turned on to this hobby. How satisfying it must have been to see Benjamin's sojourn continuing with his Victrola 50. And what a great thing to have facilitated it. Andy On Aug 6, 2012, at 3:30 AM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: You may be onto something, Andrew. Another wunderkind I knew, at seventeen went into the woods with his flintlock, shot a deer, and made a tunic from the skin. His particular fancy was George Rodgers Clark, and the French and Indian War. He grew up in Oregon, no less. Go figure. Every generation produces a rare few who are special. Some of them most certainly advance the reach of the Human Race, and the rest at least enhance our quality of life. There's a ten year-old I know now who was so enthralled by my phonographs that his mom bought him a Victrola 50 I'd just restored. While on their summer vacation last month, his mom sent an e-mail with young Benjamin listening to his phonograph set up at a Colorado campground picnic table! Now, have we identified the next generation of hobbyist? chuckles : ) Edward In a message dated 8/5/2012 2:25:31 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: Hi Edward ~ Like you, my folks had no particular affection for old things or machines. They've also both been relatively helpless with mechanical challenges of the most basic variety. Though we can never know it all, I think past-life influences and cumulative gifts thus derived are as likely to influence our current affinities and skills as are environmental and familial connections. It's a common story that the children of collectors have no particular interest in enjoying (let alone maintaining) even the most humble collection. As for influencing factors, mentors can certainly play a vital role if one is fortunate enough to have them, but if that spark wasn't there to begin with, we wouldn't likely have drawn the mentors into our lives to begin with. Those connections simply would not have been made for us. I like the sound of the highschool boy you knew and his individuality. The clothing alone makes one imagine the machine shop culture of the late 19th century. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 2, 2012, at 2:25 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: I love wunderkinds and their stories, n' enjoyed yours, Andrew! It reminded me of a mechanically talented HS boy I knew a few years ago who asked everybody he ran into if they had any broken lawnmowers or chainsaws. He'd usually get 'em for free, and then repaired and sold them. Needless-to-say, he wasn't a Goth, or a Bagger, a Stoner or a Preppie, but he wore faded overalls and a tam cap! Ha! Does anyone think our passion for antiques hearkens to a previous life, or is it a kind of genetic affinity, or what? My mom disdained anything old. When I was a boy, she had barely pointed out a cabinet we had in the basement that came over from Italy with great-grand parents in the 1840s, and then coming home from school I saw it on the curb for the trash collectors! I reacted with horror, and squirreled it away to my clubhouse in the backyard. Though Mom called everything that played a record a Victrola, do I need to say the actual Victrola was long gone by the time I was old enough to save it? : ) Edward In a message dated 8/2/2012 8:10:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: Glad you enjoyed it. Taking the time to type out these remembrances brought out some old memories. The only thing of real importance that I omitted, was that the waitresses at Flynns would now and then offer me a tall, icy Coca Cola for free while I worked on reviving the machines; a tremendous and always unexpected perk. I got to work on phonographs AND got free soft drinks. So, to the list of those who've been generous and supportive must be added the waitresses of Flynn's Dixie Ribs of the mid 1970s. Andrew On Aug 2, 2012, at 3:50 AM, john robles wrote: Great story, Andrew! I am loving reading all these histories! John Robles From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, August 1, 2012 9:09:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] How it Started Great to hear everyone's stories. Here's mine. I've had an affinity for history, machines and the phonograph for as long as I can remember, and recall creating a paper model of an upright phonograph before I ever had a real one. I also remember standing in utter awe, in the Edison Winter Home and Museum in Fort Myers (now the Edison-Ford estates), gazing
[Phono-L] Influences to our phonographic affinities
Hi Edward ~ Like you, my folks had no particular affection for old things or machines. They've also both been relatively helpless with mechanical challenges of the most basic variety. Though we can never know it all, I think past-life influences and cumulative gifts thus derived are as likely to influence our current affinities and skills as are environmental and familial connections. It's a common story that the children of collectors have no particular interest in enjoying (let alone maintaining) even the most humble collection. As for influencing factors, mentors can certainly play a vital role if one is fortunate enough to have them, but if that spark wasn't there to begin with, we wouldn't likely have drawn the mentors into our lives to begin with. Those connections simply would not have been made for us. I like the sound of the highschool boy you knew and his individuality. The clothing alone makes one imagine the machine shop culture of the late 19th century. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 2, 2012, at 2:25 PM, keeper...@aol.com wrote: I love wunderkinds and their stories, n' enjoyed yours, Andrew! It reminded me of a mechanically talented HS boy I knew a few years ago who asked everybody he ran into if they had any broken lawnmowers or chainsaws. He'd usually get 'em for free, and then repaired and sold them. Needless-to-say, he wasn't a Goth, or a Bagger, a Stoner or a Preppie, but he wore faded overalls and a tam cap! Ha! Does anyone think our passion for antiques hearkens to a previous life, or is it a kind of genetic affinity, or what? My mom disdained anything old. When I was a boy, she had barely pointed out a cabinet we had in the basement that came over from Italy with great-grand parents in the 1840s, and then coming home from school I saw it on the curb for the trash collectors! I reacted with horror, and squirreled it away to my clubhouse in the backyard. Though Mom called everything that played a record a Victrola, do I need to say the actual Victrola was long gone by the time I was old enough to save it? : ) Edward In a message dated 8/2/2012 8:10:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: Glad you enjoyed it. Taking the time to type out these remembrances brought out some old memories. The only thing of real importance that I omitted, was that the waitresses at Flynns would now and then offer me a tall, icy Coca Cola for free while I worked on reviving the machines; a tremendous and always unexpected perk. I got to work on phonographs AND got free soft drinks. So, to the list of those who've been generous and supportive must be added the waitresses of Flynn's Dixie Ribs of the mid 1970s. Andrew On Aug 2, 2012, at 3:50 AM, john robles wrote: Great story, Andrew! I am loving reading all these histories! John Robles From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, August 1, 2012 9:09:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] How it Started Great to hear everyone's stories. Here's mine. I've had an affinity for history, machines and the phonograph for as long as I can remember, and recall creating a paper model of an upright phonograph before I ever had a real one. I also remember standing in utter awe, in the Edison Winter Home and Museum in Fort Myers (now the Edison-Ford estates), gazing at the wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling display of cylinder players sprouting morning glory horns in such profusion that it looked like a massive, enchanted garden. I have to admit reaching out to touch some of the uprights and consoles there, lined up behind velvet barrier rails, just so I could feel the history. In 1974 when I was 12 my family moved, and within bike-riding distance of our new home was a restaurant called Flynn's Dixie Ribs. For ambience, it was decorated with old relics, including Singer sewing machines and several mostly 1920s phonographs. I don't recall if they were for sale, but my first phonograph, a Berg-Artone portable, was procured from there. The management was very kind, letting me tinker with the machines in the off hours, and it was there that I got my first hands-on phonograph mechanism education. I recall that I paid for the Berg-Artone with a fine Morgan silver dollar and $5.00 hard-earned from mowing ten lawns in the Florida heat. That portable had a broken mainspring, a punctured, wrinkled aluminum diaphragm and a dangling needle chuck. You might say that the management got the better end of the deal, but for me it was a major coup to get the solid makings of a viable machine. I got two records with it; a tired copy of Jimmie Lunceford's R hythm is Our Business on Decca, and Till We Meet Again (paired with Have
Re: [Phono-L] Orthophonic grille extraction
Some Orthophonic Victrolas require lifting or removing the motor board and sliding the grille upward, straight up until the bottom of the grille clears the top of the cabinet and comes completely out. I've seen this as well as the one that screws in from the front on different versions of the 8-30. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 5, 2012, at 7:05 PM, DanKj wrote: So, this Credenza X sounds pretty good, but I'd sorta like to look at the horn's interior. I do not want to injure the cloth, which was perfect until I tried to move the grill - now there's a little blemish where it rubbed against the center of the horn. My later 8-30's grille came out easily through the front, and the Granada needed the doors taken off, but I don't see how this can be removed. If it's going to wreck the cloth, I'll leave sleeping horns lie. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor Tone-Arm assistance needed
Hi Dan ~ If the grease is very light, like a dab of white lithium grease out of a tube (not the spray), there's no need to clean it out after assembly (likewise avoid cleaning sprays which can cause collateral damage to finishes if not precisely controlled and masked). The main thing is that the new grease should be light and not stiff (avoid wheel bearing grease, etc.), so you're not impeding the free lateral movement of the tone arm as this will cause premature wear to the records and could affect sound quality. Naturally you'll have removed every trace of the old grease from the balls, retainer and races prior to applying the new, which should be done relatively sparingly. As Ron noted, they greased these at the factory, so there's no reason to clean out your fresh application of uncontaminated grease. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Aug 2, 2012, at 6:08 AM, Rich wrote: Grease to hold them in place and good electrical contact cleaner to clean it out after assembled. On 08/02/2012 02:26 AM, DanKj wrote: I took apart the base of an Orthophonic arm (the kind without bracket and pivot pin) and am having a frustrating time getting it together again! I just don't see how to get the 5 ball-bearings to stay put while the 3 screws are replaced. Tried holding it upside-down in one hand, but it was impossible to keep every part in place. Also tried assembling right in the Victrola, which almost works - until I try to put the black cover on. I might have done this with a Granada, long ago, but maybe I looked at how it was put together changed my mind! Any suggestions will be received with gratitude. :) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] How it Started
Glad you enjoyed it. Taking the time to type out these remembrances brought out some old memories. The only thing of real importance that I omitted, was that the waitresses at Flynns would now and then offer me a tall, icy Coca Cola for free while I worked on reviving the machines; a tremendous and always unexpected perk. I got to work on phonographs AND got free soft drinks. So, to the list of those who've been generous and supportive must be added the waitresses of Flynn's Dixie Ribs of the mid 1970s. Andrew On Aug 2, 2012, at 3:50 AM, john robles wrote: Great story, Andrew! I am loving reading all these histories! John Robles From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, August 1, 2012 9:09:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] How it Started Great to hear everyone's stories. Here's mine. I've had an affinity for history, machines and the phonograph for as long as I can remember, and recall creating a paper model of an upright phonograph before I ever had a real one. I also remember standing in utter awe, in the Edison Winter Home and Museum in Fort Myers (now the Edison-Ford estates), gazing at the wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling display of cylinder players sprouting morning glory horns in such profusion that it looked like a massive, enchanted garden. I have to admit reaching out to touch some of the uprights and consoles there, lined up behind velvet barrier rails, just so I could feel the history. In 1974 when I was 12 my family moved, and within bike-riding distance of our new home was a restaurant called Flynn's Dixie Ribs. For ambience, it was decorated with old relics, including Singer sewing machines and several mostly 1920s phonographs. I don't recall if they were for sale, but my first phonograph, a Berg-Artone portable, was procured from there. The management was very kind, letting me tinker with the machines in the off hours, and it was there that I got my first hands-on phonograph mechanism education. I recall that I paid for the Berg-Artone with a fine Morgan silver dollar and $5.00 hard-earned from mowing ten lawns in the Florida heat. That portable had a broken mainspring, a punctured, wrinkled aluminum diaphragm and a dangling needle chuck. You might say that the management got the better end of the deal, but for me it was a major coup to get the solid makings of a viable machine. I got two records with it; a tired copy of Jimmie Lunceford's R hythm is Our Business on Decca, and Till We Meet Again (paired with Have a Smile) on Victor. First I sorted out the reproducer and for a time I just spun the records by finger-on-the-label, enthralled at how so much sound could come out of a purely mechanical device. I was already into electronics and had built some kits and a little transistorized amplifier, so discovering that acoustic reproduction could yield such bold volume and detail was a revelation. I also learned that the motor's centrifugal governor worked quite well to regulate my hand-driving of the platter, and that in its own right was an education. Eventually I got brave, liberated the mainspring and repaired it, and from that point forward the Berg-Artone was capable of playing records without human intervention, once set in motion. Well-meaning adults would ask how I knew what to do, which I always thought was some kind of trick question. It never occurred to me that they wouldn't necessarily know a lot more than I did about that sort of thing. For needles, I used whatever was in the little spring-lidded needle cup and found that the pointy ones sounded better than the blunted ones, and resulted in less black powdery buildup on the needle tip. After that, I scrounged through the needle bins of the other phonographs in the restaurant, weeding out the obviously worn ones. In search of more, an experiment of cutting the heads off of little brads from the local hardware store yielded poor results, but added to my evolving education. I remember the great moment when at a hi-fi store, I found several new blister packs of 25 needles for 25 cents each, and bought them all. They must have been old stock then, as none further appeared to replace them. The big event when I was 13, was the acquisition from the same restaurant, of a Cecilian Melophonic upright model; something of an Orthophonic wannabe, but in fine condition with attractive burl overlay accents. I derived hours of pleasure listening to that machine and its comparatively full-bodied tone. The record I played most often on it was a cornet solo of Carry Me Back to Ole Virginny on a blue-label Columbia. It had a mournful quality, and a perceived richness that seemed to also carry me back in time. The performer's name remains embedded in my
Re: [Phono-L] How it Started
recall what I did to raise the $135.00 for that machine, but it must have taxed every horse-trading avenue I had at the time. I used to collect coins, and it's likely I turned in some of the collection. The big bonus for me, however, was going to Mark's house to pick up the machine (with much arm-twisting of my new-driver older brother). There, my host provided us with a guided tour of his phonograph collection. My eyes must have been big as saucers, and my ears standing at attention to pick up every sound. My first cylinder phonograph finally came to hand about two years later around 1978, courtesy of Les Goldberg at his store Everything Audio. This shop was clear across the city, a harrowing drive on three expressways to the unknown treasures that lay at the other end of the journey. Everything Audio inspired me endlessly with the restored radios, phonographs and occasional Jukebox in its little front showroom, while Les toiled in back, dealing with the day-to-day life of TV and tape player repair, and unappreciative consumer-customers. In his showroom, however, he had seemingly endless piles of 78's standing precariously tall and at an affordable fifty cents each, and I would spend hours sifting through these, hobbling out in the early afternoon with bent knees and numb legs, to get sustenance from the burger joint next door. The rest of the afternoon would be spent sorting the records into the can live without, maybe and have to have piles. A glance inside my wa llet would often dictate the final cull, though. One day Les gave me the unexpected, golden opportunity to take my pick of one of two non-functional Edison Home phonographs, in exchange for returning one to him working and salable. These were my phonograph beginnings. I've loved the mechanics of it, getting to know the artists and records, reading the histories and enjoying the simple, aesthetic pleasure of seeing the machines. As time goes on and I mature, I find myself feeling less possessive about the machines, and spending far more time thinking about the generosity and support of the people I've met over the years through this passion, one of whom continues to be a prized mentor, and others whose wisdom I've been privileged to dip into with a dedicated question now and then about a particular machine. My phonograph collection these days numbers a dozen machines, which in the rush of life tend to fade into the woodwork when left alone, but shine forth when interest from other, and sometimes younger people gives them an added reason to be played. In roughly chronological order they are: An early Edison banner Triumph improved for performance with a 2/4 setup, a prized Medved-rebuilt O-reproducer and Gfell Music Master horn; a Victor Type E front mount (Monarch Junior), a Zonophone Grand Opera, Edisons: maroon Gem and Home model D's, early A-250, a Victrola XVIII, a Brunswick 17 with the dual-diaphragm Ultona, an Amberola 50, a Kameraphone Thorens Excelda, and an electric-motored Victor Orthophonic Credenza. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Interesting stories, was: Apology to all
I'll chime in here and also say that your story of how you discovered phonographs, and what appeals to you about them, should be shared with the group, which after all is the point of this list. Everyone got their start in this hobby one way or another, and each story I'm sure is a personal one to each individual, regardless of circumstance. Andrew Baron On Jul 30, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Peter Fraser wrote: No, please post your story. If people don't want to read it (or anything else posted here, for that matter) they can learn to click delete - it's not hard to do. Sent from my iPhone -- Peter pjfra...@mac.com On Jul 30, 2012, at 1:04 PM, Ken aka: OnATorrent onatorr...@yahoo.com wrote: Everyone, It had been suggested to me by a couple of people to right up my story about how I fisrt got the Phono Fever at the age of 26 years old. Unfortunately it will contain parts of my life away form the topic of Phonos as I overcame major life issues. I guess now it would be inappropriate to post my story here. If any of you that encouraged me to do this, and if you still would like to read my story, please contact me off board. As I donot want to cause problems or get people here upset with me. I to am sorry for posting my off topic personal major life event. I really did not mean to ruffle anyones feathers, Kenneth From: Loran T. Hughes lo...@oldcrank.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Apology to all John, You owe no one an apology. Yes, one purpose of the list is to share further knowledge about the hobby. Phono-L is also a conduit for socialization among those of us who share common bonds. Folks, if you get your panties in a wad over some non-phono related chatter, run your own listserve and make the rules. Hang out here, you play by my rules. Thanks, Loran On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 10:21 AM, John Robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: Good morning all. I received an email this morning from a list member stating that it would be nice if I did not use Phono-L for my personal email or soapbox, and that not everyone wants to hear all this. It was further stated that the purpose of Phono-L was to share and further our knowledge about our shared hobby. That is true. I simply responded to a public message that was posted by a list member. I had written him privately asking him to let me know how he was doing. He answered publicly. Was it off subject? Yes. I did not use the list as a soap box' I merely made a compassionate response to a list member's message. I assume he received a similar response. I also assume that if the medical issue had been cancer or some other mainstream ailment, I would not have been accused of being on my soapbox, which implies a political attitude. Be that as it may, I am sorry if my public response to a public message offended anyone. I will try to keep my compassion for suffering private from now on. John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org/ ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Info on an Edison DD W-250 needed
William Mary Official Laboratory Model, Pages 116, 117, 118, Frow, 1982 hardbound edition. Andrew Baron On Jul 30, 2012, at 9:00 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Phono listers: I am trying to find info about an Edison DD player: W-250 Earlier this week I was asked by a friend antique shop owner about a phonograph he recently acquired and I agreed to help him by way of copying the pages from my Frow DD book. . I can't seem to find it in Frows book as my reader isn't finding a glossary. Any info on this machine and or what pages can it be found in Frow's book would be a great help. Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] My story...
Well, it's always interesting to hear how a phono collector got the bug, what their first machine or machines were, and what aspect of the field drew them in; aesthetics, historical interest, mechanical interest, music interest, or combinations of these and others. Though I'm sure it doesn't need an invitation on this forum, feel free to relate what your experience has been. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Ken aka: OnATorrent wrote: Hello everyone, I made a statement that I was thinking about posting my story here for everyone to read from my introduction to phonographs at the age of 26 in 1993 and followed by my 19 year obsession. I had a great group of people that took me under there wing and guided me and gave me a great education and showed me the ropes on collecting and everything that I needed to know to be a successful collector and all the years I have spent as a younger man. I have had 3 people that wanted me to do this and I just wanted to make sure everyone would be interested in my story of live and collecting through hard times and good. Comments are welcome, Kenneth Keeton ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Early DD opportunity
Someone in the area ought to act on this relatively scarce early Edison Diamond Disc. Ten hours to go at time of this notice: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=320928454931ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Tin-foil replica questions
Many thanks, Jim, for your detailed answer. I have, and love Rene's book. It's been a while since I've paged through it so didn't recall the information on the replicas being there (or got so caught up on the history of the originals that the replica section didn't stay in mind . I probably last read the book through in 2002. Though I'm in New Mexico and the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting is in Minnesota, I hope to visit there again before too long and it would be nice to operate their replica with Curator Steve Raymer. They do a lot of educational outreach and have lots of school groups that come through, and a demonstration of their tin foil machine could be a great part of that program. The park ranger at the ENHS who was present when I tried the Kruesi replica in their demonstration room was very surprised that I was able to get such a loud, articulate result. He hadn't heard that replica perform so well, even though most visitors shouted into it louder. I can only imagine that most operators either engaged the recording stylus too lightly (so the recorded indentations are very shallow) or too deep (so the recording diaphragm excursion is limited by the stylus bottoming the foil into the groove on the drum), OR, they set the playback stylus too shallow (so only a fraction of the total depth of the undulations engage the playback diaphragm), or too deep (thus flattening the delicate, recorded foil undulations to the bottom of the drum groove), or some combination of these less than optimal settings. To say nothing of speed and steadiness, so the styli remain in maximum compliance with the foil at all times. I'm just noticing the plans for the Kreusi replica now, near the back of Rene's book, which appear to be related to the Edison's staff blueprints that you mentioned, although with a slightly later date. I'm hoping to create an opportunity to fabricate a fairly faithful example of this machine in the not too distant future. I had the Gillette plans in another book but hadn't realized that I had these too, in Rene's book. So thank you very much for bringing my attention 'round to this volume! Andrew Baron Santa Fe On May 17, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Jim Nichol wrote: The foremost authority in the world on tinfoil phonos is Rene Rondeau. Also, I think Rene is the only person who has arranged for any tinfoil to be made in the last 60 years or so. I know he's arranged at least 2 production runs at great expense. I believe the majority of it went to the Henry Ford Museum and the Smithsonian for their tinfoil demos. The rest was made available to collectors, and may still be available. I bought some in both rolls and cut sheets. Rene wrote the authoritative book on the subject called Tinfoil Phonographs in 2001. I can't imagine any phono collector not buying a copy, so you will probably want to buy one from Rene. It also mentions some of the replica makers. Edison's staff made blueprints of the Kruesi in 1928-1930. When I visited the West Orange Lab in about 1967, their gift shop sold me a bound copy of the blueprints, with a color picture of the Kruesi original on the cover. Most or all of the replicas would have been based on these prints (including the extra holes in the base). Rene says the Ptacek and Stehlik replicas are even more accurate than the blueprints, base on study of the original machine. My replica Kruesi tinfoil phono was made by Elmer Jones. His name is cast into the cast iron base (on the bottom). Rene's book said the Elmer produced about 15 replicas in the 1960's, but I bought mine from Elmer at Union for $500 (I think around 1980). Elmer told me he planned a run of about 10 Kruesi machines, but he didn't say if mine was the first of 10. I think it was. I was astounded that that machine was for sale all day Saturday, and no one bought it until I did in mid-afternoon! Bill Ptacek made 25 replicas, and Mirek Stehlik made 30, according to the book. Bill's are marked WCP with a date on the bottom, and Mirek's are unmarked, but have a serial number stamped on the end of the main shaft, says the book. When I was at the Henry Ford Museum in 2009, I visited the Menlo Park complex. After watching a woman play a tinfoil recording on an original Bergmann/Edison phono, I asked her if she knew that Rene Rondeau supplied her with the tinfoil. She said that name sounds familiar. She opened the drawer in the table that the phono was sitting on, and pulled out a copy of Rene's book! I said that's him!. Jim Nichol On May 17, 2012, at 1:02 AM, Andrew Baron wrote: I know this has been covered here before, but I'm seeking a little knowledge for the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting, that they might know more about a beautiful reproduction Kreusi replica (part of the Jack Mullin Collection), and where to source the soft tin foil appropriate for demonstrating that machine. I noticed
Re: [Phono-L] Tin-foil replica questions
Thanks Jim for the clarification. I've just taken a closer look at these reduced-size plans. Some of the numbers in the dates are a bit hard to make out. The last figure of the last date appears to be a 7, somehow, which of course doesn't make sense in relation to the other dates. Thanks also for the clarification on Rene's tin foil project. I'll look into it further. Best, Andrew Baron On May 17, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Jim Nichol wrote: What did you mean about the blueprints in the book having a slightly later date? The dates are a little hard to read, but they are: 2/19/30 1/18/29 2/28/30 1/24/30 It is a little unfortunate that they had to be shrunk to fit the book. The set I bought were at least twice that big. I haven't found my copy yet, but they would have to be the same as the dates above. I was wrong in my earlier comments about some of Rene's tinfoil going to the Smithsonian. I see in a 2006 email from Rene to Phonolist that he had 500 pounds of tinfoil produced several years earlier of which was split between the Ford Museum, the Edison National Historic site, and about 50 collectors. He was getting ready to make more in 2006. Jim Nichol On May 17, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Baron wrote: Many thanks, Jim, for your detailed answer. I have, and love Rene's book. It's been a while since I've paged through it so didn't recall the information on the replicas being there (or got so caught up on the history of the originals that the replica section didn't stay in mind . I probably last read the book through in 2002. Though I'm in New Mexico and the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting is in Minnesota, I hope to visit there again before too long and it would be nice to operate their replica with Curator Steve Raymer. They do a lot of educational outreach and have lots of school groups that come through, and a demonstration of their tin foil machine could be a great part of that program. The park ranger at the ENHS who was present when I tried the Kruesi replica in their demonstration room was very surprised that I was able to get such a loud, articulate result. He hadn't heard that replica perform so well, even though most visitors shouted into it louder. I can only imagine that most operators either engaged the recording stylus too lightly (so the recorded indentations are very shallow) or too deep (so the recording diaphragm excursion is limited by the stylus bottoming the foil into the groove on the drum), OR, they set the playback stylus too shallow (so only a fraction of the total depth of the undulations engage the playback diaphragm), or too deep (thus flattening the delicate, recorded foil undulations to the bottom of the drum groove), or some combination of these less than optimal settings. To say nothing of speed and steadiness, so the styli remain in maximum compliance with the foil at all times. I'm just noticing the plans for the Kreusi replica now, near the back of Rene's book, which appear to be related to the Edison's staff blueprints that you mentioned, although with a slightly later date. I'm hoping to create an opportunity to fabricate a fairly faithful example of this machine in the not too distant future. I had the Gillette plans in another book but hadn't realized that I had these too, in Rene's book. So thank you very much for bringing my attention 'round to this volume! Andrew Baron Santa Fe On May 17, 2012, at 1:34 AM, Jim Nichol wrote: The foremost authority in the world on tinfoil phonos is Rene Rondeau. Also, I think Rene is the only person who has arranged for any tinfoil to be made in the last 60 years or so. I know he's arranged at least 2 production runs at great expense. I believe the majority of it went to the Henry Ford Museum and the Smithsonian for their tinfoil demos. The rest was made available to collectors, and may still be available. I bought some in both rolls and cut sheets. Rene wrote the authoritative book on the subject called Tinfoil Phonographs in 2001. I can't imagine any phono collector not buying a copy, so you will probably want to buy one from Rene. It also mentions some of the replica makers. Edison's staff made blueprints of the Kruesi in 1928-1930. When I visited the West Orange Lab in about 1967, their gift shop sold me a bound copy of the blueprints, with a color picture of the Kruesi original on the cover. Most or all of the replicas would have been based on these prints (including the extra holes in the base). Rene says the Ptacek and Stehlik replicas are even more accurate than the blueprints, base on study of the original machine. My replica Kruesi tinfoil phono was made by Elmer Jones. His name is cast into the cast iron base (on the bottom). Rene's book said the Elmer produced about 15 replicas in the 1960's, but I bought mine from Elmer at Union for $500 (I think around 1980
[Phono-L] Tin-foil replica questions
I know this has been covered here before, but I'm seeking a little knowledge for the Pavek Museum of Broadcasting, that they might know more about a beautiful reproduction Kreusi replica (part of the Jack Mullin Collection), and where to source the soft tin foil appropriate for demonstrating that machine. I noticed that their replica tin foil phonograph has the faithfully recreated details in the base, like the oblong prior use holes in the base, as per the authentic Kreusi phonograph at the ENHS. I'm aware that a number of replicas were made by at least two or three individuals and wonder how to determine the origin of this one. As I recall there might be an identifying mark or limited serial number on the bottom? And as noted above, where does one obtain the foil? Thanks in advance for any assistance with these questions. Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victrola IV stuff needed
Hi Darrell ~ I'd be interested in a manual copy as well for a friend who uses a Victrola IV at his science camp. Not time sensitive at all, but if you make a copy for John, a second copy might be convenient. Let me know the cost. Best, Andrew Baron On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Darrell Lehman wrote: I probably have a manual I can copy - perhaps an ad to copy also - let me know if no one comes thru with an original. What's your time frame? best, Darrell == john robles wrote: Hello all Does anyone have a repro or original Victrola IV manual? My nephew is buying one from me for his girlfriend. She is in school to be an opera singer and he wants to buy her this victrola and some operatic records. I am making a special price for him and I want to throw in some extras, like the manual, a Victrola IV ad that I can frame, etc. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] The Automaton at the Franklin Instutute
Thanks Steve ~ The man of parts article has some inaccuracies (as much print / on-line media does). The Oscar video is something that I have mixed feelings about, but I'm glad to see that they at least made the costume loose. A comment about yours regarding putting in a quarter -- You are remembering correctly that you got a drawing for a quarter, but this would have been taken by the operator as there was never any coin mechanism on the machine (as far as I know). Thanks for your clarification on the name The Franklin, vs. The Franklin Institute. I remember the former; didn't realize it had reverted back. The Franklin Institute was the first place of major organized scientific learning and dissemination, I think starting around 1824. Key technologies by many inventors and corporations were often first demonstrated publicly at the Institute, at least into the mid 20th century. It reopened as an interactive museum in 1933 at its current location which was built for the purpose (and entombing one of the largest locomotives ever built in the process). It remains a vital and fascinating place, and has many treasures tucked away, in addition to what's on exhibit. Please keep me posted on the scan of your drawing. A high-res scan, of 300 dpi (ideally) would be great for my study. Best, Andy On Apr 22, 2012, at 1:17 PM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: I was able to dig up the two articles on the Automaton from the Philadelphia Inquirer that I mentioned: First the guy I mentioned who maintained it for many years: _A man of parts._ (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/science/2020_A_man_of_parts_.html?viewAll=y) and then this - with video. _Franklin Institute Automaton ready for his Oscar_ (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/artswatch/Franklin-Institute-Automaton-ready-for-his-close-up.ht ml?ref=more-like-this) Because of interest, I'm gonna dig out the drawing I mentioned and scan it. BTW, Andy (and others). The museum (founded by Ben Franklin, and where Emile Berliner first demonstrated his Gramophone in 1887) tried to market itself as The Franklin a few years ago but locals complained because of nostalgic memories. So it is now back to being The Franklin Institute Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] The Automaton at the Franklin Instutute - The DRAWING!
Fascinating, Steve, to see this, and the 1959 date makes it even more meaningful. The automaton is capable of doing much cleaner work today. A number of conditions are contributing to the deterioriation of the drawing quality in this image, which makes it a very valuable document of the automaton's health at that time. I'm looking at the same image sharing service you used and working on setting up an account so I can upload a recent rendition of the same drawing, entitled Chinese Temple. If you would b willing to make and email to me a high-res version of this same drawing (300 dpi would be preferred, but 200 should suffice; no need for the back of the paper), it would be much more useful to my study. I'll chime in again with a link to the current drawing shortly. Best, Andy On Apr 22, 2012, at 1:59 PM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: Okay folks I dug out my scrapbook and made three scans. The Front and back of the drawing that Automaton made plus a copy of the floorplan of the FI (I had it with the drawing). Per the page on my scrapbook it was during my visit between December 27th and 31st, 1959 My memory is pretty strong and I remember it being located on the Ground Floor outside the Lunchroom. BTW, note that also on that flor was the ORIGINAL Univac Computer which was created at the Univ. of PA. Bigger than your PC or Ipad of course. Here is link to the scans. http://tinyurl.com/83rb7fj Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] The Automaton at the Franklin Instutute - The DRAWING!
Hi Steve and anyone who may be interested in seeing a current example of the automaton's Chinese Temple. I've given up for the time being, trying to do this on line. I would be happy to send an email privately to anyone who would like to see what this same drawing looks like today. Steve, I'll email a jpeg of it to you momentarily. Thanks again for posting the image. Andy On Apr 22, 2012, at 1:59 PM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: Okay folks I dug out my scrapbook and made three scans. The Front and back of the drawing that Automaton made plus a copy of the floorplan of the FI (I had it with the drawing). Per the page on my scrapbook it was during my visit between December 27th and 31st, 1959 My memory is pretty strong and I remember it being located on the Ground Floor outside the Lunchroom. BTW, note that also on that flor was the ORIGINAL Univac Computer which was created at the Univ. of PA. Bigger than your PC or Ipad of course. Here is link to the scans. _http://tinyurl.com/83rb7fj_ (http://tinyurl.com/83rb7fj) Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] The Automaton at the Franklin Instutute - The DRAWING!
Excellent point, Jim. Thanks for the link. Yes, if you scroll down and click on the Chinese Temple drawing, you get a pretty good representation (although in fairly low resolution) of how the drawing compares now to Steve's in 1959. The drawings on that web page were all made from the current output, following the 2007 restoration. Thanks for thinking of this link and sharing it. For those who haven't seen it's inner workings in action, the 72 cams that rotate together inside the cabinet when the figure is drawing, and the motors that drive them, are very much like music box mechanism. Andy On Apr 22, 2012, at 4:01 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: Andy, why not ask Steve to post your drawing along with his? Also, is your drawing similar to the one on this page? http://www.fi.edu/learn/sci-tech/automaton/automaton.php?cts=instrumentation Jim Nichol On Apr 22, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: Hi Steve and anyone who may be interested in seeing a current example of the automaton's Chinese Temple. I've given up for the time being, trying to do this on line. I would be happy to send an email privately to anyone who would like to see what this same drawing looks like today. Steve, I'll email a jpeg of it to you momentarily. Thanks again for posting the image. Andy On Apr 22, 2012, at 1:59 PM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: Okay folks I dug out my scrapbook and made three scans. The Front and back of the drawing that Automaton made plus a copy of the floorplan of the FI (I had it with the drawing). Per the page on my scrapbook it was during my visit between December 27th and 31st, 1959 My memory is pretty strong and I remember it being located on the Ground Floor outside the Lunchroom. BTW, note that also on that flor was the ORIGINAL Univac Computer which was created at the Univ. of PA. Bigger than your PC or Ipad of course. Here is link to the scans. _http://tinyurl.com/83rb7fj_ (http://tinyurl.com/83rb7fj) Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] OT: new Hugo automaton website
Hi Jim ~ This was one of those serendipitous situations, with a lot of wonderful coincidences of unlikely elements from far and wide, all coming together at the same moment in time. It's the sort of thing that has you thinking if it hadn't of been for this (earlier event), then that connection wouldn't have happened, and if it hadn't of been for that I was aware that The Franklin had one of the (currently fewer than 100 known) surviving RCA theremins, and I was aware that it hadn't worked in more than fifty years. It was a great satisfaction to be able to restore it for them during the same visit that the more involved automaton restoration took place. Different skills, yes, in a way, but both use a similar analytical thought process of assessing a situation and applying effect-to-cause reasoning. Andy On Apr 20, 2012, at 5:44 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: I had no idea how complex your repair work was! I hate to think what would have happened if they hadn't found you to do the work! I can also imagine how stunned the Franklin Institute must have been when you told them that you could fix both their automaton AND their Theremin!!! Those are two entirely different skills. Jim Nichol On Apr 20, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: For my friends on Phono-L who love antique mechanical things, and the stories behind them: http://www.popyrus.com/hugo/index.html Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] OT: new Hugo automaton website
Hi Steve and thanks for your comment. I would LOVE to see a high-res scan of that automaton drawing, and to the best of your recollection, the year it was made, if not the month and year. The report that you can download from my Hugo-Automaton site has some of my esoteric ideas and conjecture. I'd like to compare details of the automaton's drawings at different times in history, as a way to catalog wear and tear on its memory cams. Your automaton drawing, and when it was made, is a snapshot of the condition of the automaton at the moment the drawing was made. Your drawing's details could reveal (by comparison to recent drawings), anything from almost imperceptible degradation in the recent output, to outright corruptions of the drawn lines including dropouts or slashes. I have printouts of drawings from the automaton going back to 1802, which give an ideal picture of what the drawings looked like when the machine was nearly new, and some from the 1930s, a couple from the late '40s and one or two others. Your drawing would bridge a gap that I'd love to see for my study, especially if you could relatively date it. You can reply directly to me at a...@popyrus.com, and of course it's fine to post the image for whoever might be interested in seeing it. Thanks for communicating about it! Andy On Apr 21, 2012, at 7:56 AM, srsel...@aol.com wrote: Hi Andrew! I didn't know you were on this list. There was an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer when HUGO was coming out about a guy who retired from the Franklin Institute and helped advise on the film. Ironically, I grew up near Philly (where I now live) and remember the working Automaton - it was outside the cafeteria. And, just last month, as I pulled out my old scrapbook of my early teen years I came across the ACTUAL pen drawing that the Automaton drew for me,. (I think you put in a quarter to make it work. The paper it is on has the history of the machine printed on the back. If important enough that others want to see a scan, I can post it. Steve Ramm In a message dated 4/20/2012 3:28:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, a...@popyrus.com writes: For my friends on Phono-L who love antique mechanical things, and the stories behind them: http://www.popyrus.com/hugo/index.html Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question
Thanks Jim. I'm looking at Gregg's website now. Andy On Apr 20, 2012, at 6:20 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: Why not use Gregg Cline decals for the Standard B stripes, etc.? http://phonodecal.com Jim Nichol On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Randy Larson wrote: I'm also asking for help on stripe-ing, not stripping, I've tried pin strips from cars (too wide), tried hand painting with masking tape (paint bleeds under masking tape, looks bad) and free hand (worse yet, too many cups of coffee). Ron Sitco mentioned a roller device, checked that out, it starts at $100.00 (too much for the budget at the moment.. but will check it out if anyone else has tried it and it worked. Thanks. Randy Larson On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: No, it is relatively thin and you bake it to set it. May take several dips to get it all thick enough to fill the craters in the casting not filled by the initial filling with plaster. Was sanded between coats if required. Final coat of asphaltum is then coated with shellac and then stripes applied followed by final coat. Seed lac was the specific type of shellac used. On 04/20/2012 09:04 AM, Steven Medved wrote: Asphaltum is thick and self leveling and takes a long time to dry? From: appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:12:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question You can strip a bedplate by soaking in a solution of Red Devil lye. Be advised that the black bedplates are coated with asphaltum -- not paint. Colored bedplates are coated with tinted shellac -- not paint. From: steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 21:25:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question In my opinion do not strip unless you have to, use the old paint as a primer. You will be amazed at the casting defects in the bedplates. Steve From: a...@popyrus.com Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:07:57 -0600 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question I'd like a refresher on that too. Just got in a lowly model B Standard, that's a good machine with a nice cabinet, nickel parts and combination attachment, but some blankety-blank polished all the stripes and umbrella signature off of it. Andy On Apr 19, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Phono list: Previously I read a discussion on stripping the Edison bed-plates. the posting described what chemical and how to use it as well as the safety considerations. I can't find my saved copy, could someone resend or provide the information again? later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] OT: new Hugo automaton website
For my friends on Phono-L who love antique mechanical things, and the stories behind them: http://www.popyrus.com/hugo/index.html Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question
I'd like a refresher on that too. Just got in a lowly model B Standard, that's a good machine with a nice cabinet, nickel parts and combination attachment, but some blankety-blank polished all the stripes and umbrella signature off of it. Andy On Apr 19, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Phono list: Previously I read a discussion on stripping the Edison bed-plates. the posting described what chemical and how to use it as well as the safety considerations. I can't find my saved copy, could someone resend or provide the information again? later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question
I dropped a p in my brain when I read this. I'm not interested in stripping, but striping! Yes, the castings are rough. This Standard B has salvageable black surface on the bed plate, but barely a trace of the STRIPING. Who has the best kit and/or method for re-striping and decalling an Edison Standard? Andy On Apr 19, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Steven Medved wrote: In my opinion do not strip unless you have to, use the old paint as a primer. You will be amazed at the casting defects in the bedplates. Steve From: a...@popyrus.com Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:07:57 -0600 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] stripping Edison bed-plates question I'd like a refresher on that too. Just got in a lowly model B Standard, that's a good machine with a nice cabinet, nickel parts and combination attachment, but some blankety-blank polished all the stripes and umbrella signature off of it. Andy On Apr 19, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Bob Maffit wrote: Phono list: Previously I read a discussion on stripping the Edison bed-plates. the posting described what chemical and how to use it as well as the safety considerations. I can't find my saved copy, could someone resend or provide the information again? later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor Orthophonic diaphragm
Hi Steve ~ I had inquired a few weeks ago. Andrew Baron On Mar 6, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Steven Medved wrote: Who was looking for a Victor Orthophonic Diaphragm? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Partly OT, Victor Theremin site
Hi Greg and thanks for the background info. This is all familiar to me. In fact it was Moog's interview in the documentary film Theremin An Electronic Odyssey that inspired me to build what became my first theremin, at its heart his first published design (the 201). There's a photo of it, about half-way down the about page of our new site: http://www.rcatheremin.com/about.php Dr. Moog signed this instrument for me during a visit just after New Years day 2003. It's great that Moogfest has been so successful and the traditions as well as the ever present (in the theremin world) avant-garde continue to thrive. Moog Music and Moog Archives are on our list of organizations to send notices to, but the reminder is good. There's always more things on my plate than time to do it all, same as you, and reminders don't hurt a bit. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: Hi Andrew, You may or may not know that Dr. Robert Moog, the inventor of the Moog synthesizer, started his career as a consequence of his fascination with the original RCA theremin. He started restoring them, then he decided to make new ones. One thing led to another, and the Moog Music company was formed. Today, Moog Music is alive, well, and thriving in Asheville, NC (my stomping grounds). They are still restoring original theremins as well as making and selling new ones, in addition to all their newer synthesizer equipment. A lot of musicians descend on Asheville to visit Moog Music and play with their toys. Asheville started a music gathering called Moogfest two years ago which is a celebration of all things Moog. It's been a huge success, and more are in the planning stages. You might want to contact Moog or one of their websites to spread the news of your website. Lots of musicians and others interested in the theremin should see your postings there. Her e's the scoop on Moogfest. Another one will probably be scheduled this year around October: http://www.moogfest.com/ Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 9:11 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Partly OT, Victor Theremin site Hi all ~ My Victor Theremin* colleague and I have just co-created a new website: rcatheremin.com For those who may be interested, here you will find practical but heretofore unavailable information about the original 1929 theremins, the first manufactured musical instrument to employ no acoustic or mechanical means of reproducing of sound. In Victor advertising, it was stated: Not a phonograph---Not a radio---Not like anything you have ever heard or seen! There are Victor records of this unique first electronic musical instrument that date from 1930 (Victor 25130 is one that some of you may have seen), and the instrument itself (which is played without touching it) was developed during the time that RCA was busy acquiring the Victor Talking Machine Company. If any of you own or know of someone who has one of these original Victor Theremins, please let me know about it, as we are actively researching the survivors. Both Mike and I own RCA theremins, and are not in the market to buy, but rather are more interested in documenting the survivors and sharing what we've learned about these rare and unusual instruments. I hope you enjoy the site, Andrew Baron Santa Fe (*As originally advertised in 1929, also referred to in brochures as the RCA Theremin) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Partly OT, Victor Theremin site
Hi Jim and thanks for chiming in. Your Moog 91A is rare and desirable model, as I'm sure you know. Very low production. At the time RCA was tooling up for their ill-fated theremin venture, they were still a few months away from having the Camden Victor factories, so yes, GE Westinghouse divided up the production at the standard ratio. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 4, 2012, at 9:51 PM, Jim Nichol wrote: This is so cool! I own a Moog Theremin 91A (which is very close in appearance to an RCA model). I only looked at your website for a few seconds before I found that Theremins were made for RCA by both GE and Westinghouse. I don't know why that never occurred to me before, since I knew RCA was based on those two companies. I worked for GE for 37 years, but of course, Theremins were never mentioned. Jim Nichol On Mar 4, 2012, at 9:11 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: Hi all ~ My Victor Theremin* colleague and I have just co-created a new website: rcatheremin.com For those who may be interested, here you will find practical but heretofore unavailable information about the original 1929 theremins, the first manufactured musical instrument to employ no acoustic or mechanical means of reproducing of sound. In Victor advertising, it was stated: Not a phonograph---Not a radio---Not like anything you have ever heard or seen! There are Victor records of this unique first electronic musical instrument that date from 1930 (Victor 25130 is one that some of you may have seen), and the instrument itself (which is played without touching it) was developed during the time that RCA was busy acquiring the Victor Talking Machine Company. If any of you own or know of someone who has one of these original Victor Theremins, please let me know about it, as we are actively researching the survivors. Both Mike and I own RCA theremins, and are not in the market to buy, but rather are more interested in documenting the survivors and sharing what we've learned about these rare and unusual instruments. I hope you enjoy the site, Andrew Baron Santa Fe (*As originally advertised in 1929, also referred to in brochures as the RCA Theremin) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Partly OT, Victor Theremin site
The date of your brochure would be between March 13, 1930 (when the marketing of the theremin was officially transferred to the Victor division of RCA), and sometime between March and July 1931, when the theremin project came to a close. There was only one theremin sold in 1931 according to RCA records, so it seems most likely that your brochure dates from 1930. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 5, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Bill Burns wrote: Thanks for your kind words, Andrew! Do you have a better date for the brochure than my 1930s? -- Bill On 3/5/2012 1:53 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: Thanks Bill for this fabulous brochure link, and for adding a link to rcatheremin.com on this brochure page. For those who may be interested, this brochure is a great introduction to RCA's marketing for their theremin. They put a huge investment into capturing a market for a product that ultimately couldn't be played by most users. The surviving Victor records from 1930 and (I think) 1931 are part of the legacy of RCA's foray into the musical instrument business. It wouldn't be until a quarter century later that they revisited the medium of electronic music, with a programmable synthesizer (like the phonograph, it would play recordings or programs, rather than being an instrument that could be played in real time. I have a copy of this brochure, but haven't scanned it. Your scans, and the presentation of the page are beautiful. I'm copying my site co-creator Mike Buffington on this. He may add a link to your brochure page if he finds a suitable place to add it. Thank you for the invitation to link to it. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Bill Burns wrote: On 3/4/2012 9:11 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: My Victor Theremin* colleague and I have just co-created a new website: rcatheremin.com An excellent and much-needed resource! I've added a link to your site from my page on the Victor Theremin brochure: http://ftldesign.com/Theremin/ You might consider linking back if you don't have a copy of the brochure yourself. -- Bill ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Partly OT, Victor Theremin site
Hi all ~ My Victor Theremin* colleague and I have just co-created a new website: rcatheremin.com For those who may be interested, here you will find practical but heretofore unavailable information about the original 1929 theremins, the first manufactured musical instrument to employ no acoustic or mechanical means of reproducing of sound. In Victor advertising, it was stated: Not a phonograph---Not a radio---Not like anything you have ever heard or seen! There are Victor records of this unique first electronic musical instrument that date from 1930 (Victor 25130 is one that some of you may have seen), and the instrument itself (which is played without touching it) was developed during the time that RCA was busy acquiring the Victor Talking Machine Company. If any of you own or know of someone who has one of these original Victor Theremins, please let me know about it, as we are actively researching the survivors. Both Mike and I own RCA theremins, and are not in the market to buy, but rather are more interested in documenting the survivors and sharing what we've learned about these rare and unusual instruments. I hope you enjoy the site, Andrew Baron Santa Fe (*As originally advertised in 1929, also referred to in brochures as the RCA Theremin) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Triumph Cygnet Horn Crane
Hi Steve ~ I recall the Triumph horn crane issues coming up some time back on this forum. Can you elaborate if/when you have time, on the difference between the cranes made for the horizontal carriage vs. the cranes made for the angled carriage? I thought I'd resolve the tracking differences on my Triumph (Gfell Music Master, reproduction crane) with a Tiz-it, but was concerned about losing audio velocity as the carriage travels through its looser-fit positions during the course of playing a cylinder (snug-to-loose fit of Tiz-it to horn). With the rubber horn coupler (which I use to avoid Tiz-it losses), it's the usual problem of no matter how carefully the suspension spring is adjusted, there's a small portion of the tracking that fairly jams the carriage down to the straightedge, and the rest barely touches. A solution might be to secure the Tiz-it with an internal sleeve of rubber, to seal the upper (tapered) part of the Tiz-it to the inside of the horn stem, and allow the constant-diameter sleeve portion of the Tiz-it to ride up and down on the reproducer neck during play, the suspension spring being adjusted so the Tiz-it base just barely bottoms on the reproducer when the over all travel is at its closest position. This would be minimal loss of air pressure, but not as good as a rubber coupler, and would have the added disadvantage of wear to the nickel plating on the reproducer tube. A thin layer of white lithium grease, though a dust-catcher, might take care of these two deficits (sealing and friction wear). Would love to get your thoughts on this if you have time. Not urgent. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 27, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Steven Medved wrote: Hello Bob and list, There are several types of cranes. The early ones do not have the spring at the top and require a metal tizit to work and are not as high as the later ones which are made higher at the top to accomodate the spring. The later ones have the spring at the top and need to be higher to accomodate the spring. There are cranes that are made for the horizontal carriage. There are cranes that are made for the 45 degree carriages. The difference is about three inches in where it falls. I would recommend Ron Sitko at 518-371-8549, you can call him in the evening between 7 and 10 pm, he is in New York. Another guy had the same problem and he called Ron and got the correct crane at a good price. Steve From: rkolba0...@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:53:31 -0500 To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Triumph Cygnet Horn Crane I have two Triumphs with O reproducers. One has an original cygnet crane (10 to the bend) and the other is a reproduction (8 to the bend)..obviously the wrong crane for this machine. I am looking for either an original or reproduction Triumph crane. Many thanks. Bob Kolba ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 12-Inch Button on Edison Disk Machine?
I concur that the button makes it easier, especially on a nice, well-lubricated machine where it's easy to go too far and then swinging all that mass back over to the right (without going too far again), prior to setting the diamond down on the disc. I don't speed through, but it's a lot of mass to swing over and stop dead before dropping the stylus. The button stops it exactly where it needs to be and there's no fishing. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 23, 2012, at 9:32 AM, chris...@cox.net wrote: A friend has a Laboratory Model diamond disk player. To the left of the platter, along the edge close to the cabinet, are two push buttons -- one labeled 10 and the other 12. Neither of us was aware that there were 12-inch diamond disks. Were Edison reproducers available for lateral records? Was this an after-market modification? Thanks, Chris ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 12-Inch Button on Edison Disk Machine?
Interesting. The 10 - 12 buttons on my first DD also were on a BC-34. I've only ever seen them on that one and some Laboratory Model C-19's. Anyone out there have them on other models?? Andrew On Feb 23, 2012, at 1:33 PM, DanKj wrote: Twelve-inch discs were recorded in preparation for a new series, but the Long Playing program was decided upon,. instead. 12 masters had been recorded as far back as 1910, too. Problems with the gold- sputtering process supposedly stopped the early issue of 12inch Edisons, plus the fact that the 10inch discs already played as long as any competing discs. My Baby Console also has the 10-12 buttons never occurred to me that they were intended for stupid people, though . I doubt that the average person knew or cared what size were his phonograph records, any more than most people knew or cared how any machines worked. - Original Message - From: chris...@cox.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:32 AM Subject: [Phono-L] 12-Inch Button on Edison Disk Machine? A friend has a Laboratory Model diamond disk player. To the left of the platter, along the edge close to the cabinet, are two push buttons -- one labeled 10 and the other 12. Neither of us was aware that there were 12-inch diamond disks. Were Edison reproducers available for lateral records? Was this an after- market modification? Thanks, Chris ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] 12-Inch Button on Edison Disk Machine?
Thanks Russ. That is an unusual one. I appreciate your chiming in. Andrew Baron On Feb 23, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Russ Ridley wrote: they are found on my IU-19 Italian Umbrian. Russ On 2012-02-23, at 4:25 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: Interesting. The 10 - 12 buttons on my first DD also were on a BC-34. I've only ever seen them on that one and some Laboratory Model C-19's. Anyone out there have them on other models?? Andrew ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Late Edison DD speed control
Hi Ron ~ The fingers are free to engage more deeply into the holes of the anti-shock collar as the weights expand and the flywheel is drawn inward. The collar limits undesirable rotation but does not limit compression of the distance between the flywheel and the opposite end of the governor shaft. Andrew Baron On Feb 17, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: I recently saw a later Diamond Disc motor with a more complicated governor design than I usually see. The governor has what I guess is an anti-shock mechanism, three fingers with holes and pins in them which I am assuming work similarly to the spring wire on a Fireside governor. I could not figure out how one would change the speed of the motor. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks, Ron L ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Does anyone know how to make a Jones Motrola _safe_?
Hi Philip ~ 1) Soldering to pot metal might not be possible, depending on the composition. 2) Tapping a screw thread in a correctly sized hole for that tap, with cutting oil and reasonable care, poses very little risk unless the casting is full of cracks (In which case it wouldn't be safe to use anyway). Cast white metal is relatively soft and easily tapped if the tap is fresh and the tap pilot hole is the right size. 3) Another method is to capture a flat metal ring lug under an existing screw if there are any internal anchor points used for other purposes, and solder the ground wire to the other end of the ring lug. 4) Regardless of which method you use, if the AC plug has been changed or is a universal type (not molded on), better double check that the green wire has been correctly attached to the ground prong in the plug, before attaching it to the metal housing. Best, Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Feb 16, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Philip Carli wrote: Would soldering the green wire to the case do as well as a screw? I believe the case is pot metal and tapping it for a screw might shatter the whole thing. Philip Carli From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] on behalf of Greg Bogantz [gbogan...@charter.net] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:27 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Does anyone know how to make a Jones Motrola _safe_? I believe the Motrola has a metal case. The danger can occur if there is electrical leakage from the internal wiring to the case and its attached metal parts which can occur due to carbonized insulation that can begin to develop a lower resistance. I would recommend first testing with an ohmmeter to determine if there is already leakage from either of the wires leading from the motor to the case. An ohmmeter reading should indicate a very high or infinite resistance from either wire to the case when things are correct. If you measure any significantly lower resistance, the internal wiring will need to be redone or repaired. If there is good isolation from the motor wires to the case, I would recommend replacing the line cord with a modern three-wire cord with a 3-terminal AC plug. Connect the black and white wires to the motor circuit as was done in the original 2-wire cord. Then connect the green wire to a screw on the metal case. This will privide a grounding connection from the case to your household earthing system. If electrical leakage should develop in the future, it will be routed thru the green wire to your household ground system (assuming you plug the cord into a modern 3-wire outlet). In the worst case, it will blow a fuse or circuit breaker rather than leaving the system a shock hazard. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Philip Carli philip_ca...@pittsford.monroe.edu To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:08 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Does anyone know how to make a Jones Motrola _safe_? I have a Jones Motrola I'm trying to rewire, but I read that they can be dangerous in their original ungrounded state? Any ideas on how I can deal with this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Philip Carli This email message and any attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from using the information in any way, including but not limited to disclosure of, copying, forwarding or acting in reliance on the contents. If you have received this email by error, please immediately notify me by return email and delete it from your email system. Thank you. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org This email message and any attachments may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from using the information in any way, including but not limited to disclosure of, copying, forwarding or acting in reliance on the contents. If you have received this email by error, please immediately notify me by return email and delete it from your email system. Thank you. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] 1000 year old Edison
Wow, this is more than 800 years older than Edison himself! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-YEAR-OLD-EDISON-RECORD-PLAYER-/170752074412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27c19de2ac ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Slot hardware on Victor
What is this (upper right corner), that resembles a coin slot? Photos of the inside don't include it or anything related to it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-PHONOGRAPH-TYPE-M-/160725573111?_trksid=p4340.m1374_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6025034377881422351 Andrew Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Slot hardware on Victor
Thanks for this detailed reply. History sometimes loses the details, and it's always interesting to learn the possibilities. Andrew On Feb 1, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Scott and Denise Corbett wrote: Hi Andrew, While it looks like a coin slot, there is no corresponding hole in the wood below it (unless wood was replaced). In addition, there seems to be no extra apparatus below with the motor to start/stop it (as you pointed out). I think it was for some type of homemade attachment, possibly to hold needles, and whatever went into the slot is gone. We have a needle holder attachment for our Victor V. It bolts onto the rear where it is held into place with one of the two large bolts that hold the back bracket on (See George and Tim's book Gadgets, Gizmos, Gimmicks, Page 63). It could have even been for a speed gage. That is the fun of the hobby, there is no end to what is out there. _Scott Denise Corbett -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 8:59 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Slot hardware on Victor What is this (upper right corner), that resembles a coin slot? Photos of the inside don't include it or anything related to it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTOR-PHONOGRAPH-TYPE-M-/160725573111?_trksid=p4340 .m1374_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps %3D63%26clkid%3D6025034377881422351 Andrew Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Orthophonic diaphragm anyone?
Hi all ~ I'm inquiring on behalf of a friend (who may have already spoken to one or two of this group in his independent searching), if anyone is aware of a source for new reproduction Orthophonic diaphragms, with or without the spider. If so, who might have them, how good is the quality, and what price? Has anyone here had experience with this? Best to all, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Edison Opera horn neck?
eBay description: VINTAGE VICTROLA METAL SPEAKER HORN ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Opera horn neck?
If from a radio loudspeaker, I don't think it was Magnavox. Magnavox parts are common, but I haven't seen one that looks like this. On Jan 24, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Rich wrote: Reconfigured Magnavox radio speaker horn elbow? On 01/24/2012 09:27 AM, Andrew Baron wrote: eBay description: VINTAGE VICTROLA METAL SPEAKER HORN ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Opera horn neck?
Good to be aware of. Thanks for passing along these details. On Jan 24, 2012, at 4:42 PM, Rich wrote: I received that information from someone who was making the repro units. Apparently the collar end is former Magnavox and the lower section came from another source. At the time I did not follow up on further details as it was not something I was interested in knowing. On 01/24/2012 04:21 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: I wasn't aware of this. The sharper angle that goes to the reproducer is the detail I haven't seen on stock Magnavox horn necks. Thanks for the clarification. On Jan 24, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Rich wrote: The replacement Opera horn elbows are made from Magnavaox radio speakers. There is some disassembly and reassembly required. would want to have that one in my hands before I would be spending Opera class money for it. On 01/24/2012 12:24 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: If from a radio loudspeaker, I don't think it was Magnavox. Magnavox parts are common, but I haven't seen one that looks like this. On Jan 24, 2012, at 10:35 AM, Rich wrote: Reconfigured Magnavox radio speaker horn elbow? On 01/24/2012 09:27 AM, Andrew Baron wrote: eBay description: VINTAGE VICTROLA METAL SPEAKER HORN ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Edison Concert Banner Case and Lid Opportunity
Amazing to see this. I hope you get your price and more. Andy Baron On Jan 8, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Terry Baer wrote: I just posted a nice original case and lid with all the hardware for a banner Concert on eBay (item 170761333838). This is a nice pair and a chance to upgrade or complete a machine. Best, Terry ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] OT: clockwork automaton article in NY Times today
Thank you Greg (and also Jim and Steve for chiming in, and Jim for noting the YouTube videos). The Youtube video of the live demonstration isn't produced at all; more like home movies, taken at the Franklin Institute upon the dual-event of first public showing of the automaton in some years, combined with a book signing by Brian Selznick back at the place where this vital element of his book (and movie HUGO) was discovered. In the event video, it's fun to hear Brian talk about how we discovered the original writing implement body hidden away within the interior framework of the machine. We still don't know what the original writing tip was, but it's likely that it was a small metal nib for ink. The original, ornamented writing implement body had apparently never been seen in the 80 years that the automaton had resided at the Franklin. Here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfeNC28vpYo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwkkDfs-RKg On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: Congratulations, Andy, on getting this priceless piece of history restored to full functionality. That must have been a privelege as well as great fun to do. What a wonderful challenge in trying to figure out what each piece of the mechanism did. I'm constantly amazed at the delicacy and precision of mechanisms such as watches and timepieces that were made hundreds of years ago. I have often wondered how these precision mechs were even made so many years ago before the availability of modern materials and processes. I'm always fascinated by this stuff. Thanks for the link. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: Andrew Baron a...@popyrus.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:00 PM Subject: [Phono-L] OT: clockwork automaton article in NY Times today For those phonograph enthusiasts whose interests extend into other mechanical realms, Today's edition of the New York Times (Science Times section) ran an article about the drawing/writing automaton that restored for Philadelphia's Franklin Institute Science Museum. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/science/maillardet-automaton-inspired-martin-scorseses-film-hugo.html?_r=2seid=autosmid=tw-nytimespagewanted=all Best to all, Andrew Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] OT: clockwork automaton article in NY Times today
For those phonograph enthusiasts whose interests extend into other mechanical realms, Today's edition of the New York Times (Science Times section) ran an article about the drawing/writing automaton that restored for Philadelphia's Franklin Institute Science Museum. Here's the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/science/maillardet-automaton-inspired-martin-scorseses-film-hugo.html?_r=2seid=autosmid=tw-nytimespagewanted=all Best to all, Andrew Baron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] A once grand Brunswick console going cheap in PA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=180761748377ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Help - Stubborn governor weights
Hi John ~ A precision-fitting hollow ground screwdriver will solve most stubborn screw problems at the outset and save burring the screw slot as well. Andrew Baron On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:44 PM, john robles wrote: Thanks Melissa and Nick! Luckily the screw head is fairly deep, not like those danged screws on the back of a Victrola no. 2 reproducer. I always manage to wreck one of the four!! John From: Melissa Ricci riccib...@yahoo.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Help - Stubborn governor weights Hi John, Nick and I have had great success getting those stubborn screws out with this easy method. Use the correct size screwdriver which is quite small. Attach a pair of vise-grips to the screwdriver handle and use the grips to turn the screwdriver as you apply pressure. It works every time for us! The vise-grips give you just enough leverage to do the job and not strip the tiny screw. Good Luck! Melissa --- On Sat, 10/22/11, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net Subject: [Phono-L] Help - Stubborn governor weights To: phonolist phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 1:45 PM Hello all I need to replace the governor springs on a Victor II. I have removed the weights and springs from the shaft, but the small screws that connect the weight to the springs will not budge. What do you all recommend to get them loose? They are really tight and I don't want to strip the screwheads. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Help - Stubborn governor weights
Nick Melissa's method works well, and as she notes correct size is important. Naturally, it also makes it easier if you anchor the adjoining part (the weight in this case) in a vise. A piece of belt leather wrapped around the anchored part helps prevent scarring. I don't generally apply heat to such small parts, but if you do, remember to heat the part with the female thread more. My penetrating oil of choice is PB Blaster. Seems to work better than Liquid Wrench or others I've tried. Andrew Baron On Oct 22, 2011, at 12:31 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hi John, Nick and I have had great success getting those stubborn screws out with this easy method. Use the correct size screwdriver which is quite small. Attach a pair of vise-grips to the screwdriver handle and use the grips to turn the screwdriver as you apply pressure. It works every time for us! The vise-grips give you just enough leverage to do the job and not strip the tiny screw. Good Luck! Melissa --- On Sat, 10/22/11, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net Subject: [Phono-L] Help - Stubborn governor weights To: phonolist phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 1:45 PM Hello all I need to replace the governor springs on a Victor II. I have removed the weights and springs from the shaft, but the small screws that connect the weight to the springs will not budge. What do you all recommend to get them loose? They are really tight and I don't want to strip the screwheads. Thanks John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor II ?
Hi Melissa ~ The following applies mainly to the horn and elbow for the Victor II: Late last year I bought a Victor II, which unbeknownst to me (at the time I bought it at auction), has the lowest documented serial number (35) of any standard model Victor phonograph in the Victor-Victrola on line database. It was complete except for the horn and horn elbow, and because it had this interesting serial number, the search began to complete it properly. The VII seems to be a popular favorite among collectors, with the humpback rear panel an appealing element. You might already be aware of this since you're working on your Victor II generally, but in addition to the tone-arm that Ron noted, the horn elbow is also specific to the II, and can be somewhat hard to find. Reproductions are available, I believe. The horn can be hard to locate as well, the 19 black flower version being much easier to locate than the correct black brass (I'll refer to as bb) earlier style horn. It was a bit of a learning curve to research the variations in sizes of the bb horn. The information in the Victor Data Book is helpful (especially with regard to the black pedal horn), but less so when it comes to what turns out to be a broader range of bell shapes and diameters on the bb horns. According to the VDB, there's quite a leap up in size between a VI and VII bb horn. In reality, I'm now aware of at least two intermediate sizes (between the VI VII bb horn) that the book does not document. One way the VDB IS useful here, is that it breaks down the various production runs of the VII over time, and shows whether a particular series of VII had the bb or 19 pedal horn as original equipment. Your serial number, cabinet and hardware details will help zero in on which series you have and which horn it should have. A very nice VII black pedal horn, correct at 19 just sold on eBay for $129 + shipping; a very fair price I think. A correct bb horn for a VII can cost in the $400 range or more for a decent example. Maybe someone can comment further on the tone-arm length -- If a Victor II has the humpback rear panel, does it take a slightly longer arm than a non-humpback machine? Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Oct 19, 2011, at 2:59 PM, Melissa Ricci wrote: Hi Everyone, We are in need of the entire back bracket and tone arm for our new Victor II. Below is the link to an Ebay auction for what looks like a II tone arm and bracket. We were told by Ron Sitko that the Victor II had a specific back bracket and tone arm. Only a part from a II will fit another II. Can anyone tell me if the part in the Ebay auction is from a II. The seller doesn't seem to know. Thanks!Melissa http://www.ebay.com/itm/220877076235 --- On Wed, 10/19/11, srsel...@aol.com srsel...@aol.com wrote: From: srsel...@aol.com srsel...@aol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Modern Cylinder Boxes - ARSC Project To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 9:50 AM Actually The Library of Congress funded an affordable archival cylinder box project for ARSC which just ended last year. Check out info on Page 10 and 11 here: _http://www.arsc-audio.org/newsletter/nslr124.pdf_ (http://www.arsc-audio.org/newsletter/nslr124.pdf) They are not commercially available yet though. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] WWI music perspective
of it. That it remained in the Victor catalog until 1933 is an indication of how it resonated with the buying public of the day. All these examples are just the tip of the ice burg for this diverse category of recorded song. I too, like my '20s records, love my Helen Kane recordings and so many others of that escapist decade. Records from the first decade of the twentieth century are rich in the entertainment and imagery of those days (in addition to the charming simplicity of the recordings); records from the '30s (especially in the middle years of that decade, when you can find them) have the distinct flavor of that period. '40s, '50s, I enjoy them all. But for the sheer breadth, depth and richness of content in such a brief period of recording history, the music of World War One is hard to top. Andrew Baron Santa Fe On Oct 11, 2011, at 8:15 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I love the historical aspect of the music, as well. I guess that I'm stuck in an era (the 20''s), which seems similar to the 1990's with the stock market craze leading to the depression. That era produced some very good jazz. WWI is an interesting historical era, but I find it to be somewhat conflicting - like all wars. Playing catchy tunes at home, while people are being gassed in the trenches -- all for what reason? Same with WWII swing music... goofy lyrics apparently to escape reality. I hope you know that I wasn't making a critical statement regarding your taste in music... Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 05:49:33 -0700 From: riccib...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor III is Working! Thank you! Hi, Thanks for the comment. We actually listen to a lot of jazz. I am a band teacher and have a jazz band at school. We play music from the 1920's on. We have a 1940's jukebox at home full of jazz. However, at the moment, I am really enjoying these quirky songs from the WW1 era. it is something different and it really shows what the mentality was back in the early 1900's. Being a history person, I just love the lyrics. I love how they sing about sending soldiers cigarettes and candy. I find these songs interesting, cute and catchy. Melissa --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com wrote: From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor III is Working! Thank you! To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 11:22 PM The machine is great... but the music leaves a little to be desired. Try some 20's Jazz or Blues. Coon Sanders or Irving Aaronson and his Commanders would be great or even some Helen Kane (Betty Boop) to liven things up. Check out RedHotJazz.com for some ideas... Just a suggestion - everyone has different tastes. Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:06:37 -0700 From: riccib...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor III is Working! Thank you! Hello Everyone, Thank you again for helping us to solve our motor issue and for all the comments about whether or not to restore our Victor II. It looks like we will take our time searching for parts and restore the II. We will let you all know how it comes out. The Victor III was our first outside horn Victor machine so we are so happy to have it working. There is an old repair to the spear tip oak horn that we will need to deal with and we would like to have the tone arm re-plated but for now we are just happy to hear it play! :) Below are links to a video of our now working Victor III and our Home Model D with wood grained metal cygnet playing our first ever royal purple cylinder. Thank you again for all of your help! Melissa Victor III http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHjh_Xfw1n0 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Bargain Victrola
Anyone catch this? It's also 100 years old, and plays 45's as well! http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200653017746ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123 Andy ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Now, this is what I call a very interesting... Phonograph...
Actually, what kept my attention longer than the model was the painting, which appears to be an original Barraud, or a very faithful copy of an antique painting -- Look at the irregularities of the canvas. Andy Baron Santa Fe On Sep 14, 2011, at 4:31 PM, rkeuler wrote: ..even a cool Nipper there!:-) ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] My phonograph room
Thanks John for posting the photos. Great looking room and tasteful display of the machines and accessories, and especially the signs and advertising on the walls. Nice also to see the Columbia BE and the Edison A-200 in situ. Andrew Baron On Sep 4, 2011, at 6:37 AM, john robles wrote: Thanks Dave. Scott Corbett had that sign made for me and there is a story behind the sign. I was selling at the CAPS show several years ago, and this guy (Gary Dial) wandered by my table. He was perusing my stuff, and he picked up my card. He did a double take, and said Your name is Robles? I said yes..he said Oh I have something at my table you need to see! He hurried me over to his table and there was the sign. I gasped when I saw it, especially because I knew of no Robles House of Music in Ventura back in the day. I said I have to have that, how much is it? He said he'd left me have it for $75. I paid him and made the rounds with it showing all my friends, who showed proper astonishment. A little later I got back to my table and had it displayed behind me. Pretty soon I noticed several of my friends gathered around the table grinning..and it sank in! I had been pranked!! Gary came up and gave me my money back, saying he had to charge me what he thought would be a realistic amount, that he couldn't charge me only $20 or so because he thought that would make me suspicious. It was a great joke and I treasure that sign and the great friendships with all the people that were in on it. John From: David Dazer dda...@sbcglobal.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] My phonograph room Very nice, John. I especially like the replica old time sign. What a great little item. Dave --- On Sun, 9/4/11, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net Subject: [Phono-L] My phonograph room To: phonolist phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 3:21 AM Here is a link to pics of my phonograph room and machines. I don't have much room so I don't have many machines, but I enjoy what I have. Double click on the pics to enlarge them and read the comments. If you have a photobucket account I'd like to see some of your collections! http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa39/john9ten/My%20Phono%20Room/ John Robles ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Approx. value/rarity question: Edison DD record file
Thanks John for your sense of this. That's right around what I was thinking, but in the absence of any further experience with this kind of item. Andy On Sep 3, 2011, at 4:22 AM, John Maeder wrote: In that condition, and being that you are probably the only serious phonograph collector in Santa Fe/Albuquerque, I think $150 is fair. Certainly not over $200. From: a...@popyrus.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 21:22:14 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Approx. value/rarity question: Edison DD record file Putting this question to the collective wisdom here on phono-L: How scarce, and what value range might I apply to a Haag Bissex record file? There's one available locally and I want to offer the owner a fair price for it. This item is basically a small oak cabinet just wide enough (and tall deep enough) to contain 36 Edison DD records, divided by slats. At the bottom of each slat is a button to eject the record out of its slot. There's a front panel that pivots outward and up, and slides back just under the cabinet top. Condition is just fair, with a top that has some prominent corner damage and missing some veneer around the edges. The top is also bowed slightly downward and at some point in the distant past, someone drove a number of finishing nails straight through the top of the top panel, to re-attach it to the side walls of the cabinet. The top panel should probably be replaced, and finished as well as possible to not stand out from the old. There's also a prominent chip in a corner of the bottom panel, but this might be doctored with a small patch piece. The cabinet should probably be re-glued as it wobbles a little. This may also be due to the somewhat thin materials used in the original construction. The original finish on the front panel and sides is decent, and it's very decent and presentable inside. Haag Bissex was based in Philadelphia, and I could find almost nothing about them searching the internet. There are only two contemporary trade fair references from around 1921, and an inquiry posted to phono-L five years ago about one of these made with gum- wood, that was paired with an Edison Chalet B-19. I don't imagine that it's large enough to fit under a B-19 properly though. As noted above, the example I've found is oak. The Haag Bissex metal tag on it shows a 1916 patent date. I've never seen one of these, and have only a very general idea of what to offer. I sure could use it, though. Any thoughts or insights from this group would be most welcome. Best to all, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] Approx. value/rarity question: Edison DD record file
Putting this question to the collective wisdom here on phono-L: How scarce, and what value range might I apply to a Haag Bissex record file? There's one available locally and I want to offer the owner a fair price for it. This item is basically a small oak cabinet just wide enough (and tall deep enough) to contain 36 Edison DD records, divided by slats. At the bottom of each slat is a button to eject the record out of its slot. There's a front panel that pivots outward and up, and slides back just under the cabinet top. Condition is just fair, with a top that has some prominent corner damage and missing some veneer around the edges. The top is also bowed slightly downward and at some point in the distant past, someone drove a number of finishing nails straight through the top of the top panel, to re-attach it to the side walls of the cabinet. The top panel should probably be replaced, and finished as well as possible to not stand out from the old. There's also a prominent chip in a corner of the bottom panel, but this might be doctored with a small patch piece. The cabinet should probably be re-glued as it wobbles a little. This may also be due to the somewhat thin materials used in the original construction. The original finish on the front panel and sides is decent, and it's very decent and presentable inside. Haag Bissex was based in Philadelphia, and I could find almost nothing about them searching the internet. There are only two contemporary trade fair references from around 1921, and an inquiry posted to phono-L five years ago about one of these made with gum- wood, that was paired with an Edison Chalet B-19. I don't imagine that it's large enough to fit under a B-19 properly though. As noted above, the example I've found is oak. The Haag Bissex metal tag on it shows a 1916 patent date. I've never seen one of these, and have only a very general idea of what to offer. I sure could use it, though. Any thoughts or insights from this group would be most welcome. Best to all, Andrew Baron Santa Fe ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Electric motor for phonograph/changer
I have some NOS electric phono motors for 1940s and 50s machines. If you can email a photo I might be able to match it one of these. Andrew Baron On Aug 29, 2011, at 6:35 PM, ny victrolaman wrote: Greetings! Can anyone tell me where I might find a replacement electric motor for a 1940's phonograph/changer? (If you need more specific make/model info, please let me know.) And yes, I've already tried West-Tech -- no luck there. Thanks! ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
