Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
UH-OH, have I been taken? I was told that my Edison C-1 is one of six known. According to the known serial numbers mine is the latest making it the last (accounted for) Diamond Disc machine. I sincerely hope that is not the case. Bruce - Original Message - From: Mike Stitt smst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? My response as to how does he know it's factory was tongue in cheek. When I hear stuff like that or only 3 know to exist I always ask or think who told you that. I remember hearing only three of these phongraphs exist. I smiled and thought well I have one, that makes 4. I didn't say it tho' Mike Oldcranky ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I collected Gems on a large scale, it would be unusual to have. One dead give away that the paint is not original to the date of manufacture is the lid. Notice the flathead nails on the edges to hold down the glue failure? Near the nails are gouges that were painted after the nailing and in other spots are chips of the same type not painted. It looks to my eye like it was done years ago but still old enough for the lid to have become unglued in a hot attic or damp basement...see mold on cylinder. Or not Bruce M. - Original Message - From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Factory painted or not, I think it looks nice. If I wanted a gem, I would buy it, if the price was right. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Yes, you have been taken, you should sell your C-1 to me for $1200 dollars and consider yourself lucky as it does not have nearly the paint job of that GEM ;-) Bill On Apr 11, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Bruce Mercer wrote: UH-OH, have I been taken? I was told that my Edison C-1 is one of six known. According to the known serial numbers mine is the latest making it the last (accounted for) Diamond Disc machine. I sincerely hope that is not the case. Bruce - Original Message - From: Mike Stitt smst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? My response as to how does he know it's factory was tongue in cheek. When I hear stuff like that or only 3 know to exist I always ask or think who told you that. I remember hearing only three of these phongraphs exist. I smiled and thought well I have one, that makes 4. I didn't say it tho' Mike Oldcranky ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Or perhaps more accurately half-vast. ? bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medvedsteve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-lphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstromw...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
What is the purpose of continuing to beat this seller's description? While we agree that it is highly unlikely the paint was applied at the factory, the paint is good enough that a seller without vast phonograph experience could easily think it looks as old as the machine, and therefore as far as he knows was applied at the factory. It looks like this seller sells lots of purses and boots, and is probably much more knowledgeable about those items than the average phonograph expert. If I had a purse to sell on eBay I could easily make wrong assumptions about it that the purse experts would laugh at too. And, whether painted at the factory or not, it looks very nice. If I owned it, I'd keep it and display it alongside my factory-correct Gems. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
I would not assume he is trying to cheat anyone. The paint does look aged and could have very likely been done when it was new.It looks professional, Although it was certainly not done at the factory, he may just not know that. -- Bill Taney Sent From My iPad On Apr 10, 2011, at 6:53 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Wow what a thread. I have a beautiful branded case gem, mint even with the recorder. I also have some decals from the 50's that are flowers. I'm willing to paint the whole thing black and add the flowers to the case and horn. I will throw in a very early Edison Gem horn that has no decal but Edison's script signature, like I said early. I will be careful applying the old water slide decals to the case and horn. I can add a bit of gold pin striping. I was thinking a satin black on the lid. Any offers? Now I'm not serious of course it's just too nice a Gem. Just making a subtle point. Done today horrifying, done fifty years ago double or triple the money? Now to be fair I collect many things I do appreciate age/value. I even have some folk art. Mike Oldcranky. On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: My 0.02 is on a early 50s antique shop with a big pile of these to move out for 15.00ea original and $20.00 decorated. On 04/09/2011 10:13 PM, Steven Medved wrote: Body and case are wood, painted black. Edison did not paint cases and lids black, especially covering his trademark decal on the lid. This did not come from the factory like that. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Ya know, I've done a good bit of assuming myself. He doesn't say anywhere that this was done at the factory. He just says its decorated and rare. Someone liked it enough to pay $1257 for it, I hope they didn't think it was factory decorated. John --- On Sun, 4/10/11, b...@taney.com b...@taney.com wrote: From: b...@taney.com b...@taney.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 9:12 AM I would not assume he is trying to cheat anyone. The paint does look aged and could have very likely been done when it was new.It looks professional, Although it was certainly not done at the factory, he may just not know that. -- Bill Taney Sent From My iPad On Apr 10, 2011, at 6:53 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
It does represent a spruced up GEM of times past. Not ever being factory should not be an issue. This independent refurbishment was common in the 20s and 30s due to the wonderful economic conditions of the times. Well preserved examples are less than common though. On 04/10/2011 11:39 AM, The Farmers wrote: What is the purpose of continuing to beat this seller's description? While we agree that it is highly unlikely the paint was applied at the factory, the paint is good enough that a seller without vast phonograph experience could easily think it looks as old as the machine, and therefore as far as he knows was applied at the factory. It looks like this seller sells lots of purses and boots, and is probably much more knowledgeable about those items than the average phonograph expert. If I had a purse to sell on eBay I could easily make wrong assumptions about it that the purse experts would laugh at too. And, whether painted at the factory or not, it looks very nice. If I owned it, I'd keep it and display it alongside my factory-correct Gems. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
I agree with you Greg Farmer. - Original Message - From: The Farmers g...@usfamily.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? What is the purpose of continuing to beat this seller's description? While we agree that it is highly unlikely the paint was applied at the factory, the paint is good enough that a seller without vast phonograph experience could easily think it looks as old as the machine, and therefore as far as he knows was applied at the factory. It looks like this seller sells lots of purses and boots, and is probably much more knowledgeable about those items than the average phonograph expert. If I had a purse to sell on eBay I could easily make wrong assumptions about it that the purse experts would laugh at too. And, whether painted at the factory or not, it looks very nice. If I owned it, I'd keep it and display it alongside my factory-correct Gems. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Apparently it didn't hurt the price on this one... $1,200+ That's what is puzzling about eBay. Some great items go cheap, and others - like this GEM and the Frankenphone with the PVC horn elbow from a few weeks ago, go over the top. Don't get me wrong - the GEM was attractively done, but it would be great at $400-500, not $1,200. To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: zonophone2...@aol.com Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 19:34:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? HI STEVE I AGREE I HAVE SEVERAL COLLECTOR FRIENDS WHO HAVE ONE OFF CASES THAT WERE DONE BY OWNERS OF THE PERIOD WITH SOME VERY FANCY EMBELISHMENTS I AGREE IT MAY HURT THE PRICE BUT THEY ARE INTERESTING JUST THE SAME ZONO -Original Message- From: The Farmers g...@usfamily.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 1:00 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? What is the purpose of continuing to beat this seller's description? While we agree that it is highly unlikely the paint was applied at the factory, the paint is good enough that a seller without vast phonograph experience could easily think it looks as old as the machine, and therefore as far as he knows was applied at the factory. It looks like this seller sells lots of purses and boots, and is probably much more knowledgeable about those items than the average phonograph expert. If I had a purse to sell on eBay I could easily make wrong assumptions about it that the purse experts would laugh at too. And, whether painted at the factory or not, it looks very nice. If I owned it, I'd keep it and display it alongside my factory-correct Gems. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
HI STEVE I AGREE I HAVE SEVERAL COLLECTOR FRIENDS WHO HAVE ONE OFF CASES THAT WERE DONE BY OWNERS OF THE PERIOD WITH SOME VERY FANCY EMBELISHMENTS I AGREE IT MAY HURT THE PRICE BUT THEY ARE INTERESTING JUST THE SAME ZONO -Original Message- From: The Farmers g...@usfamily.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 1:00 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? What is the purpose of continuing to beat this seller's description? While we agree that it is highly unlikely the paint was applied at the factory, the paint is good enough that a seller without vast phonograph experience could easily think it looks as old as the machine, and therefore as far as he knows was applied at the factory. It looks like this seller sells lots of purses and boots, and is probably much more knowledgeable about those items than the average phonograph expert. If I had a purse to sell on eBay I could easily make wrong assumptions about it that the purse experts would laugh at too. And, whether painted at the factory or not, it looks very nice. If I owned it, I'd keep it and display it alongside my factory-correct Gems. -- Greg Farmer - Original Message - From: bruce78...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? He said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factor, And where pray tell did he derive that knowledge from ? Me thinks very strongly, that it is a figment of his vast imagination !! - Original Message - From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: Phono-l phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2011 11:16:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Edison did offer special decoration but that was usually on the metal parts and not on the cabinet. I tend to think some amateur did this, though it is very nice. John Robles --- On Sat, 4/9/11, Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com wrote: From: Vinyl Visions vinyl.visi...@live.com Subject: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 8:20 AM I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Mike, the reason that the seller knows that is obvious in his statement: Like most eBay items it starts with a statement of authenticity: Extremely rare! Body and case are wood, painted black, with gold trim on base and rose flowers and daisy on case. I have been collecting antiques for over forty years from coast to coast. This is the only one I have ever seen. So this is how he knows the paint is original: HE has NEVER seen one. :) Neither has anyone else, so maybe there is a reason for that... it is a one-off previous owner painted machine. It could have been painted by the original owner, shortly after it left the factory and the paint would be period authentic - 100 + yrs. old. The thing that looked non-factory, is that the flower design on the horn and the flower design on the case, were similar but not the same design/style. The horn had the same gold scroll work added as on the base - not a difficult task for an artist. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
He is also correct, it is original paint. It is not a copy of paint, it is original paint right out of a can and/or tube, and it is old. Now how old is not defined. To some 10 years is old to others one thousand is young. He is not claiming that this decoration was applied contemporaneously by Edison, he is just leaving the gullible to make that assumption. As the clear coat finish is cracked it was not done last week though. Everything on eBay is RARE L@@K! On 04/09/2011 07:44 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote: Mike, the reason that the seller knows that is obvious in his statement: Like most eBay items it starts with a statement of authenticity: Extremely rare! Body and case are wood, painted black, with gold trim on base and rose flowers and daisy on case. I have been collecting antiques for over forty years from coast to coast. This is the only one I have ever seen. So this is how he knows the paint is original: HE has NEVER seen one. :) Neither has anyone else, so maybe there is a reason for that... it is a one-off previous owner painted machine. It could have been painted by the original owner, shortly after it left the factory and the paint would be period authentic - 100 + yrs. old. The thing that looked non-factory, is that the flower design on the horn and the flower design on the case, were similar but not the same design/style. The horn had the same gold scroll work added as on the base - not a difficult task for an artist. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstromw...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
So true about the rarity factor on ebay. Yesterday someone had a Victrola 50 on there listed as very old and rare, and it was priced at $1,700.00. Never mind that there are three others on ebay right now priced at around $350.00... John --- On Sat, 4/9/11, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 7:28 PM He is also correct, it is original paint. It is not a copy of paint, it is original paint right out of a can and/or tube, and it is old. Now how old is not defined. To some 10 years is old to others one thousand is young. He is not claiming that this decoration was applied contemporaneously by Edison, he is just leaving the gullible to make that assumption. As the clear coat finish is cracked it was not done last week though. Everything on eBay is RARE L@@K! On 04/09/2011 07:44 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote: Mike, the reason that the seller knows that is obvious in his statement: Like most eBay items it starts with a statement of authenticity: Extremely rare! Body and case are wood, painted black, with gold trim on base and rose flowers and daisy on case. I have been collecting antiques for over forty years from coast to coast. This is the only one I have ever seen. So this is how he knows the paint is original: HE has NEVER seen one. :) Neither has anyone else, so maybe there is a reason for that... it is a one-off previous owner painted machine. It could have been painted by the original owner, shortly after it left the factory and the paint would be period authentic - 100 + yrs. old. The thing that looked non-factory, is that the flower design on the horn and the flower design on the case, were similar but not the same design/style. The horn had the same gold scroll work added as on the base - not a difficult task for an artist. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstromw...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Body and case are wood, painted black. Edison did not paint cases and lids black, especially covering his trademark decal on the lid. This did not come from the factory like that. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
My response as to how does he know it's factory was tongue in cheek. When I hear stuff like that or only 3 know to exist I always ask or think who told you that. I remember hearing only three of these phongraphs exist. I smiled and thought well I have one, that makes 4. I didn't say it tho' Mike Oldcranky On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:50 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: So true about the rarity factor on ebay. Yesterday someone had a Victrola 50 on there listed as very old and rare, and it was priced at $1,700.00. Never mind that there are three others on ebay right now priced at around $350.00... John --- On Sat, 4/9/11, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 7:28 PM He is also correct, it is original paint. It is not a copy of paint, it is original paint right out of a can and/or tube, and it is old. Now how old is not defined. To some 10 years is old to others one thousand is young. He is not claiming that this decoration was applied contemporaneously by Edison, he is just leaving the gullible to make that assumption. As the clear coat finish is cracked it was not done last week though. Everything on eBay is RARE L@@K! On 04/09/2011 07:44 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote: Mike, the reason that the seller knows that is obvious in his statement: Like most eBay items it starts with a statement of authenticity: Extremely rare! Body and case are wood, painted black, with gold trim on base and rose flowers and daisy on case. I have been collecting antiques for over forty years from coast to coast. This is the only one I have ever seen. So this is how he knows the paint is original: HE has NEVER seen one. :) Neither has anyone else, so maybe there is a reason for that... it is a one-off previous owner painted machine. It could have been painted by the original owner, shortly after it left the factory and the paint would be period authentic - 100 + yrs. old. The thing that looked non-factory, is that the flower design on the horn and the flower design on the case, were similar but not the same design/style. The horn had the same gold scroll work added as on the base - not a difficult task for an artist. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstromw...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
Factory painted or not, I think it looks nice. If I wanted a gem, I would buy it, if the price was right. On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 7:50 PM, john robles john9...@pacbell.net wrote: So true about the rarity factor on ebay. Yesterday someone had a Victrola 50 on there listed as very old and rare, and it was priced at $1,700.00. Never mind that there are three others on ebay right now priced at around $350.00... John --- On Sat, 4/9/11, Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com wrote: From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, April 9, 2011, 7:28 PM He is also correct, it is original paint. It is not a copy of paint, it is original paint right out of a can and/or tube, and it is old. Now how old is not defined. To some 10 years is old to others one thousand is young. He is not claiming that this decoration was applied contemporaneously by Edison, he is just leaving the gullible to make that assumption. As the clear coat finish is cracked it was not done last week though. Everything on eBay is RARE L@@K! On 04/09/2011 07:44 PM, Vinyl Visions wrote: Mike, the reason that the seller knows that is obvious in his statement: Like most eBay items it starts with a statement of authenticity: Extremely rare! Body and case are wood, painted black, with gold trim on base and rose flowers and daisy on case. I have been collecting antiques for over forty years from coast to coast. This is the only one I have ever seen. So this is how he knows the paint is original: HE has NEVER seen one. :) Neither has anyone else, so maybe there is a reason for that... it is a one-off previous owner painted machine. It could have been painted by the original owner, shortly after it left the factory and the paint would be period authentic - 100 + yrs. old. The thing that looked non-factory, is that the flower design on the horn and the flower design on the case, were similar but not the same design/style. The horn had the same gold scroll work added as on the base - not a difficult task for an artist. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstromw...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Richrich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number:230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
As far as he knows is a very loaded statement. In other words within the realm of his knowledge. He is either a cheat or knows very little. Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:55:15 -0700 From: smst...@gmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Ward an interesting comment. How would the seller know that? On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Ward Sandstrom w...@bis.midco.net wrote: I contacted the seller days ago and he said that as far as he knows the paint was applied at the factory. He didn't put my question and his answer back in his auction. Ward S. - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? Some of these enhancements were done in the early 50s, and during the depression to improve mail order saleability of used phonos. To tell what you are looking at you would have to be doing paint analysis to date it. Does not realy look Factory though. On 04/09/2011 11:23 AM, Steve Andersen wrote: I believe it was not done at the factory. Usually the factory would put special guilt on the casting, not the case. Either a jobber or an artistic owner did this. Steve On Apr 9, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Vinyl Visions wrote: I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real?
My 0.02 is on a early 50s antique shop with a big pile of these to move out for 15.00ea original and $20.00 decorated. On 04/09/2011 10:13 PM, Steven Medved wrote: Body and case are wood, painted black. Edison did not paint cases and lids black, especially covering his trademark decal on the lid. This did not come from the factory like that. From: vinyl.visi...@live.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 11:20:57 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] eBay GEM - Is this real? I found an auction for an Edison GEM, with rose flowered horn and decorated case which matches and appears to be old... Question: did Edison ever produce a machine with a flowered case to match the horn - seller claims it to be VERY rare? eBay Item number: 230604577714 http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Gem-Phonograph-Rose-Flower-Horn-Case-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ230604577714QQcategoryZ38029QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m1374QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DPI%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8335346353050994345 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
