Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:41, Tony Firshman wrote: No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# but in sheeps' clothes, of course... Wolfgang Hmmm, this subject is getting a bit 'woolly'. But I mutton't make bad jokes about it. I expect I'll get 'lambasted' for these awful puns now :-) -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... -- Rich Mellor OK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheep in the post to you tonight ;-) -- Dilwyn Jones
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 20/03/2004 13:17:04 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferablyonly sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need anew freezer... -- Rich MellorOK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheepin the post to you tonight ;-) Do I have any software worth 20 best Welsh sheep?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... -- Rich Mellor OK, I'll test this by ordering a program from you. 20 best Welsh sheep in the post to you tonight ;-) -- Dilwyn Jones not that simple I think, are they in lamb?, or maybe lambs?, breeding stock?, ewe's?, tups?. What is the exchange rate welsh sheep to Euro sheep. And last but by no means least - you may need a license ! All the best - Bill
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 19/03/2004 15:48:38 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It ties in a bit with Geoff's comment about a 1000 pounds work contract.Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine).For me, it is a question of commitment: if people buy my (or, indeed anybody else's software) for the QL, they still show commitment to the QL. They show that they care enough about the machine to put some of their money in it. If the software is totally free, this is no longer true.It is also a question of trying to subsidise the few traders we still have and without whom, I firmly believe, there would be no more QL community, period.(Although, I don't know how much giving them a program to sell isn't a poisend pill since, at least sometimes, it seems to cost more to produce/upgrade etc, than the money they get from the sales).So, if I have a program that I think could be sold , I'll always try to sell it. Any profit I make from it is reinvested in things QL Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a love for the system and the people involved. The more disputes that arise and the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive for us to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annual loss). I know that RWAP Software for one has hardly had ANY software sales in the past year and if it wasn't for the bit of income from second hand equipment which we sell on behalf of Quanta mainly, then we would have folded long ago and never had the funds or inclination to produce QWord. Public Domain and free software is all very well and good, but without the traders to provide it, provide advertising revenue for QL Today and Quanta and generally to promote the QL, there would be no community left. The main problem with free software is that there is no ongoing support or promotion - how many people that read QL Today and Quanta have no internet access to check on developments and new releases of software, or even to access public domain software. Dilwyn keeps his public domain service alive, but it is unlikely to generate enough income to pay him to advertise it. (Dilwyn, I wonder how many public domain disks you have sold in the last 6 months). If SMSQ/e were to become truly free software, surely the traders could not charge to sell it. In which case, who would promote it in QL Today / Quanta and pay for the advertising / deal with customer complaints, feedback and assistance in using it. I doubt anyone would do this - If you think this would not be the case Peter, then when are you going to start advertising QDOS Classic and providing contact details for people to know where to get upgrades andget help in installing the system / reporting bugs or problems?? --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 at 11:13:18, wrote: This was Rich with bad attribute--^ (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a love for the system and the people involved. The more disputes that arise and the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive for us to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annual loss). Who? I think none do now, if you account for time. Working for myself means time is money. Any time I spend on QL work means I earn less money. I make no profit even if I ignore my time, but I am a hardware man (8-(# What _is_ the problem of money? It seems no problem if it goes out, but only if it comes in. Money is only a token for favours. Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:54, Tony Firshman wrote: Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. Wolfgang
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Wolfgang Lenerz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP (Although, I don't know how much giving them a program to sell isn't a poisend pill since, at least sometimes, it seems to cost more to produce/upgrade etc, than the money they get from the sales). Very true in some cases especially in the amount of time taken up in supporting people who only use the manual when the phone is out of order but we do it and will continue to do it because it is usually fun and the appreciation we get is outweighed by the pain. There are times, however. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex. Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
Wolfgang Lenerz a écrit: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). For me, it is a question of commitment: if people buy my (or, indeed anybody else's software) for the QL, they still show commitment to the QL. They show that they care enough about the machine to put some of their money in it. If the software is totally free, this is no longer true. I agree with that opinion. Arnould
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 at 18:49:44, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:54, Tony Firshman wrote: Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
In a message dated 19/03/2004 16:57:40 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This was Rich with bad attribute--^ Maybe... Or maybe I am just echoing the feelings of other traders and QL users who long ago abandoned the scene (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED])Agreed - the QL traders continue to support the QL mainly from a lovefor the system and the people involved. The more disputes that ariseand the less people that buy any software, the less the incentive forus to carry on with the QL (most QL traders already make an annualloss).Who? I think none do now, if you account for time.Working for myself means time is money. Any time I spend on QL workmeans I earn less money.I make no profit even if I ignore my time, but I am a hardware man (8-(#What _is_ the problem of money? It seems no problem if it goes out, butonly if it comes in. Money is only a token for favours.Maybe we ought to resort to old fashioned sheep. Hey - I'm willing to accept anything as payment - though preferably only sheep that have been slaughtered and carved up so I do not need a new freezer... --Rich Mellor RWAP Services35 Chantry Croft, Kinsley, Pontefract, West Yorkshire, WF9 5JHTEL: 01977 610509Visit our website at URL:http://www.rwapsoftware.co.ukStuck with ordinary dial up internet connection ?? Read our review of internet accelerators and broadband at:URL: http://www.rwapadventures.com/Services/reviews.html
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:47, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). I understand the point of commitment by paying for the software. My viewpoint is that I like Freeware so much, that I would feel like a hipocite if any of the software/documetation/whatever I produced for the QL was sold. I produce what I do because I want to and make it available because I feel commited to community contribution. I feel commited when I contribute to the QL community. I'm not trying to nullify our viewpoing Wolfgang, just showing that some of us have differing viewpoints. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 16:47, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Contray to Peter, I will always consider trying to sell my programs, or at least some of them (I hasten to add that this has nothing to do with SMSQ/E, which is not mine). I understand the point of commitment by paying for the software. My viewpoint is that I like Freeware so much, that I would feel like a hipocite if any of the software/documetation/whatever I produced for the QL was sold. I produce what I do because I want to and make it available because I feel commited to community contribution. I feel commited when I contribute to the QL community. I'm not trying to nullify our viewpoing Wolfgang, just showing that some of us have differing viewpoints. Tim Swenson
Re: [ql-users] Re: Changing the subject
On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:41, Tony Firshman wrote: No thanks, I already look sheepish enough most of the time. I thought you were more wolf like (8-)# but in sheeps' clothes, of course... Wolfgang QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
