[RDA-L] Seminar RDA in Europe, Copenhagen 8. August 2010
The presentations from the seminar RDA in Europe - making it happen are now available on http://www.slainte.org.uk/eurig/meetings.htm Anders Cato Anders Cato Head of Cataloguing Kungl. biblioteket - National Library of Sweden PO Box 5039 SE-102 41 Stockholm Visits: Humlegården, Stockholm Tel.: +46-8-463 44 29 Mobil: +46-73-917 24 74 E-mail: anders.c...@kb.se Web: www.kb.se http://www.kb.se/
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
No, you are definitely not alone. I consider myself pretty intelligent, and I've taken many workshops on FRBR, RDA, etc. Every time I think I figured it out, I've found something that doesn't fit what I thought I understood. Sigh. Maxine Sherman Cataloger Cuyahoga County Public Library Administrative Offices 2111 Snow Road / Parma, OH 44134-2728 p 216.749.9378 / f 216.749.9445 msher...@cuyahogalibrary.org www.cuyahogalibrary.org -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:00 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] New to list Hi all I am new to the list. I am just wondering whether anyone else is struggling as I am with RDA. I am finding the terminology rather impenetrable and the descriptions very convoluted. Would be good to know I am not the only one, or is it a sign of my age and my 32-year acquaintance with AACR2? Regards, Jackie Johnson Metadata Coordinator Library Services University of Birmingham Edgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121-414-2767 j.john...@bham.ac.uk
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
Thanks all for your replies and reactions. I don't feel half so bad now! I feel as the supervisor of my team I have to try and do my best, but it's an uphill struggle. I'm sure as I get further into it I'll be very grateful for this support group! Regards Jackie Jackie Johnson Metadata Coordinator Library Services University of Birmingham Edgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121-414-2767 j.john...@bham.ac.uk From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson [j.john...@bham.ac.uk] Sent: 26 August 2010 12:59 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] New to list Hi all I am new to the list. I am just wondering whether anyone else is struggling as I am with RDA. I am finding the terminology rather impenetrable and the descriptions very convoluted. Would be good to know I am not the only one, or is it a sign of my age and my 32-year acquaintance with AACR2? Regards, Jackie Johnson Metadata Coordinator Library Services University of Birmingham Edgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121-414-2767 j.john...@bham.ac.uk
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
Mark Ehlert wrote: As someone who's training others on RDA, I concur that parts of the new code are, if not impenetrable, certainly a tough row to hoe. Chapter 17 has been a real bear for me, for instance, though I think I finally managed to wrap my head most of it recently. The trouble is that you don't do cataloging just by applying a code of rules, but in a system that gives you forms to fill and options to decide and such. That's very much the environment catalogers live in and are used to. Their language consists of MARC tags and MARC field names, mostly. This will have to be adapted to RDA, or the other way - or it's not going to work. Even if much were to be accomplished along that line of reformulation or retraining, there's still the question of efficiency when you consider that the new code doesn't actually do many new things but more of the old and familiar ones, only in a more thoroughly conceptualized framework of thinking, coooked up by database engineers. B.Eversberg
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Bernhard Eversberg e...@biblio.tu-bs.de wrote: Mark Ehlert wrote: As someone who's training others on RDA, I concur that parts of the new code are, if not impenetrable, certainly a tough row to hoe. Chapter 17 has been a real bear for me, for instance, though I think I finally managed to wrap my head most of it recently. The trouble is that you don't do cataloging just by applying a code of rules, but in a system that gives you forms to fill and options to decide and such. That's very much the environment catalogers live in and are used to. Their language consists of MARC tags and MARC field names, mostly. This will have to be adapted to RDA, or the other way - or it's not going to work. Very true. That is something that I mention in my training as well: some of the difficulties in translating RDA into MARC. -- Mark K. Ehlert Minitex Coordinator University of Minnesota Bibliographic Technical 15 Andersen Library Services (BATS) Unit 222 21st Avenue South Phone: 612-624-0805 Minneapolis, MN 55455-0439 http://www.minitex.umn.edu/
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
Hi Maxine! Long-time-no-chat. I concur with what you said; as well as everyone else's comments set forth in this thread! We've certainly discussed some of this in Cataloging Needs of Public Libraries at ALA. It it is true that we've been cataloging with AACR2 ... some of us since 1981. The concept of learning something new is not the issue, trying to apply the new concepts is another matter. It is not uncommon for me to sit at my desk, read and try to apply the rules, and say (or so I've been told I say), Huh?, [expletive], what?, [another expletive], and so forth. Best. R. -- Robert C.W. Hall, Jr. Technical Services Associate Librarian Concord Free Public Library, Concord, MA 01742 978-318-3343 -- FAX: 978-318-3344 -- http://www.concordlibrary.org/ bh...@minlib.net -- -Original Message- From: MSHERMAN msher...@cuyahogalibrary.org To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:52:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [RDA-L] New to list No, you are definitely not alone. I consider myself pretty intelligent, and I've taken many workshops on FRBR, RDA, etc. Every time I think I figured it out, I've found something that doesn't fit what I thought I understood. Sigh. Maxine Sherman Cataloger Cuyahoga County Public Library Administrative Offices 2111 Snow Road / Parma, OH 44134-2728 p 216.749.9378 / f 216.749.9445 msher...@cuyahogalibrary.org www.cuyahogalibrary.org [http://www.cuyahogalibrary.org/] -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:00 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] New to list Hi all I am new to the list. I am just wondering whether anyone else is struggling as I am with RDA. I am finding the terminology rather impenetrable and the descriptions very convoluted. Would be good to know I am not the only one, or is it a sign of my age and my 32-year acquaintance with AACR2? Regards, Jackie Johnson Metadata Coordinator Library Services University of Birmingham Edgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121-414-2767 j.john...@bham.ac.uk
Re: [RDA-L] RDA implementation
Library and Archives Canada (LAC) is their usual informative and helpful manner have answered my questions concerning RDA implementation. Basically, retrospectively they will change headings to match RDA forms, but will not retrospectively change description. We have found following LAC's lead to be very worthwhile, e.g., following their example in using AACR2 for cataloguing reproductions (as opposed to the LCRI) has saved us having to decide how to deal with reproductions of reproductions, and what to do when there is no record for the reproduced item. Since we do reuse records often, we will make some automated retrospective descriptive changes, such as spelling out common abbreviations. LAC wrote: The earliest date that LAC will implement RDA is mid-2011. One dependency for LAC is the availability of the French translation of RDA. As plans develop, we will share them with the community. In relation to particular questions: In 130/630/730 remove '$pN.T.' and '$pO.T.' from between 'Bible' and $pBook. Spell out as 'New Testament' and 'Old Testament' if not followed by $p and the name of a book. *** LAC will make this change. In 110/710 Change Dept. to Department. *** LAC will make this change. Concerning change of genre headings now in 650 to 655: *** LAC is planning to use genre headings in the future and will likely follow Library of Congress' lead concerning their application. Change 008/23 = s to 008/23 = o, unless CD-ROM in 300 *** There is no plan at this time to change that value. In all 650, change Cookery to Cooking.** *** LAC will update subject headings with Cookery as we come across them. Relevant authority records in CSH have been updated and will appear in CSH on the Web when the product is next refreshed in September. Concerning substitution of 336-338 for 245$h: *** More analysis is required before we can determine how to proceed. __ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca) {__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/ ___} |__ \__
[RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
The complimentary open-access period to the RDA Toolkit ends August 31, 2010. Thanks to the thousands of people who have tried out the RDA Toolkit during the 10-week open-access period. We'll be sending a brief survey in the near future seeking your input, to help us improve the product and develop the most useful training. Here's how you can retain or obtain access to the RDA Toolkit after August 31: * Subscribe now visit http://www.rdatoolkit.org/subscribe for information. While your subscription is in process, we'll work with you on retaining seamless access. Don't forget-Special Double-User Introductory Offer! Subscribe at any site license level to the RDA Toolkit before August 31, 2011-a year from now-and get double the purchased number of concurrent users of the RDA Toolkit at no additional charge. (For example, buy a 2-user site license and get a 4-user license for the same price.) * Check what kind of subscription or access your consortium plans to offer. * Order through your subscription agency. Resource Description and Access (RDA) and the RDA Toolkit are published by the Co-Publishers for RDA (the American Library Association, the Canadian Library Association, and Facet Publishing, the publishing arm of CILIP: the Chartered Institute of Library and Information
Re: [RDA-L] Understanding RDA (was: New to list)
Mark said: ,,,describe WEMI as levels of information about the thing being cataloged: for the book in hand, the work is the idea conveyed by the uniform (preferred) title or name-title heading; the expression describes in broad and narrow strokes the content, the language, the mode of communication of that idea (text, English, any included index and bibliography); the manifestation is the description of the carrier and other aspects of that particular edition (x number of pages, includes this series statement and that statement of responsibility); and the item points to information particular to the piece in hand (missing pages, signature by the author). Excellent!! But as long as we are in MARC creating records for editions, largely irrelevant to our daily work, apart from navigating RDA if/when some must. Mac
Re: [RDA-L] New to list
I was one of the reviewers of RDA when it was being written. Basically, the English is terrible. Very passive sounding. Long sentences. Distinctions that do not make a difference (Choice of entry and Recording of entry--why are they two different parts of the code and so far apart. I was told some time back that the whole thing would be rewritten. In more direct language (Like AACR2, perhaps?). But I don't know if they will have the time. Hope so. On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Jackie Johnson j.john...@bham.ac.ukwrote: Hi all I am new to the list. I am just wondering whether anyone else is struggling as I am with RDA. I am finding the terminology rather impenetrable and the descriptions very convoluted. Would be good to know I am not the only one, or is it a sign of my age and my 32-year acquaintance with AACR2? Regards, Jackie Johnson Metadata Coordinator Library Services University of Birmingham Edgbaston Birmingham B15 2TT 0121-414-2767 j.john...@bham.ac.uk -- Gene Fieg Cataloger/Serials Librarian Claremont School of Theology gf...@cst.edu
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
My opinion/suggestion: It would be ideal to allow open access to the RDA rules via rdatoolkit.org throughout the entirety of all three of the U.S. Libraries testing phases. Testers will be creating records in the second phase of the test period, which is about to begin, and that is when I think most people would really benefit from RDA open access-they could look at RDA records side-by-side with the rules. This would allow for more transparency and more input from libraries outside of the testing group. Asking people to pay for access to a code of rules that has not been formally (nor even informally) adopted by the library community is, in my opinion, outrageous. Keep RDA access open until we decide we will implement it. *** Robert Bothmann Electronic Access/Catalog Librarian Associate Professor, Library Services From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Troy Linker Sent: Thursday, 26 August, 2010 11:35 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st The complimentary open-access period to the RDA Toolkit ends August 31, 2010. Thanks to the thousands of people who have tried out the RDA Toolkit during the 10-week open-access period. We'll be sending a brief survey in the near future seeking your input, to help us improve the product and develop the most useful training. Here's how you can retain or obtain access to the RDA Toolkit after August 31: * Subscribe now visit http://www.rdatoolkit.org/subscribe for information. While your subscription is in process, we'll work with you on retaining seamless access. Don't forget-Special Double-User Introductory Offer! Subscribe at any site license level to the RDA Toolkit before August 31, 2011-a year from now-and get double the purchased number of concurrent users of the RDA Toolkit at no additional charge. (For example, buy a 2-user site license and get a 4-user license for the same price.) * Check what kind of subscription or access your consortium plans to offer. * Order through your subscription agency. Resource Description and Access (RDA) and the RDA Toolkit are published by the Co-Publishers for RDA (the American Library Association, the Canadian Library Association, and Facet Publishing, the publishing arm of CILIP: the Chartered Institute of Library and Information
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
My boss asked me if we should buy this. I hadn't been paying too much attention to RDA since it seemed to be still in the testing phase and since I don't do much cataloging any more. So I spent a couple of days reading things about it, looking at the toolkit, etc. From what I can tell, you can get LC's training information at no charge. I don't see the actual rule book, but lots of helpful info is there. It was enough to boggle my mind, anyway. I hadn't put it into words, but I agree with you - charging for it before it's even adopted or implemented is less than friendly or helpful! Linda Divan Library Systems Co-ordinator Centennial Library Cedarville University 251 N. Main St. Cedarville, OH 45314 937-766-7843 div...@cedarville.edu Bothmann, Robert L robert.bothm...@mnsu.edu 8/26/2010 2:21 PM My opinion/suggestion: It would be ideal to allow open access to the RDA rules via rdatoolkit.org throughout the entirety of all three of the U.S. Libraries testing phases. Testers will be creating records in the second phase of the test period, which is about to begin, and that is when I think most people would really benefit from RDA open access—they could look at RDA records side-by-side with the rules. This would allow for more transparency and more input from libraries outside of the testing group. Asking people to pay for access to a code of rules that has not been formally (nor even informally) adopted by the library community is, in my opinion, outrageous. Keep RDA access open until we decide we will implement it. *** Robert Bothmann Electronic Access/Catalog Librarian Associate Professor, Library Services From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Troy Linker Sent: Thursday, 26 August, 2010 11:35 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st The complimentary open-access period to the RDA Toolkit ends August 31, 2010. Thanks to the thousands of people who have tried out the RDA Toolkit during the 10-week open-access period. We'll be sending a brief survey in the near future seeking your input, to help us improve the product and develop the most useful training. Here's how you can retain or obtain access to the RDA Toolkit after August 31: * Subscribe now visit http://www.rdatoolkit.org/subscribe for information. While your subscription is in process, we'll work with you on retaining seamless access. Don't forget-Special Double-User Introductory Offer! Subscribe at any site license level to the RDA Toolkit before August 31, 2011-a year from now-and get double the purchased number of concurrent users of the RDA Toolkit at no additional charge. (For example, buy a 2-user site license and get a 4-user license for the same price.) * Check what kind of subscription or access your consortium plans to offer. * Order through your subscription agency. Resource Description and Access (RDA) and the RDA Toolkit are published by the Co-Publishers for RDA (the American Library Association, the Canadian Library Association, and Facet Publishing, the publishing arm of CILIP: the Chartered Institute of Library and Information
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
I agree completely with the thought below. Additionally, if the creators of RDA hope to have the standard adopted by educators, system developers, researchers, the wider metadata community, database developers, IT staff, library and computer education professors, museums staff, etc., I hope that it is under consideration at least for the future that RDA be made an open-access standard, like Dublin Core, VRA Core, etc. Linda Sheridan Dausch Electronic Resources Serials Librarian Technical Services Chicago Public Library 400 S State St., 3S-12 Chicago, IL 60605 voice: 312.747.4652 ldau...@chipublib.orgmailto:ldau...@chipublib.org www.chicagopubliclibrary.orghttp://www.chicagopubliclibrary.org/ From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Bothmann, Robert L Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:22 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st My opinion/suggestion: It would be ideal to allow open access to the RDA rules via rdatoolkit.org throughout the entirety of all three of the U.S. Libraries testing phases. Testers will be creating records in the second phase of the test period, which is about to begin, and that is when I think most people would really benefit from RDA open access-they could look at RDA records side-by-side with the rules. This would allow for more transparency and more input from libraries outside of the testing group. Asking people to pay for access to a code of rules that has not been formally (nor even informally) adopted by the library community is, in my opinion, outrageous. Keep RDA access open until we decide we will implement it. *** Robert Bothmann Electronic Access/Catalog Librarian Associate Professor, Library Services From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Troy Linker Sent: Thursday, 26 August, 2010 11:35 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st The complimentary open-access period to the RDA Toolkit ends August 31, 2010. Thanks to the thousands of people who have tried out the RDA Toolkit during the 10-week open-access period. We'll be sending a brief survey in the near future seeking your input, to help us improve the product and develop the most useful training. Here's how you can retain or obtain access to the RDA Toolkit after August 31: * Subscribe now visit http://www.rdatoolkit.org/subscribe for information. While your subscription is in process, we'll work with you on retaining seamless access. Don't forget-Special Double-User Introductory Offer! Subscribe at any site license level to the RDA Toolkit before August 31, 2011-a year from now-and get double the purchased number of concurrent users of the RDA Toolkit at no additional charge. (For example, buy a 2-user site license and get a 4-user license for the same price.) * Check what kind of subscription or access your consortium plans to offer. * Order through your subscription agency. Resource Description and Access (RDA) and the RDA Toolkit are published by the Co-Publishers for RDA (the American Library Association, the Canadian Library Association, and Facet Publishing, the publishing arm of CILIP: the Chartered Institute of Library and Information
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
charging for it before it's even adopted or implemented is less than friendly or helpful! But it is lean, mean, and a concrete manifestation of the often-invoked advice to run it like a business! Mike Tribby Senior Cataloger Quality Books Inc. The Best of America's Independent Presses mailto:mike.tri...@quality-books.com
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Robert L Bothmann wrote: My opinion/suggestion: It would be ideal to allow open access to the RDA rules via rdatoolkit.org throughout the entirety of all three of the U.S. Libraries testing phases. If this cannot be done, we see a possibility to ease the situation. A while ago, I presented an alternative interface which might be called the RDA Browser (in analogy to the LCSH Browser we have had in operation for some time): http://www.mail-archive.com/rda-l@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca/msg03613.html This is a question for Mr. Linker: What would be the position of your company about it? Our database is derived from the 2008 full draft, not the current text. We would not ask for permission to open it indefinitely, just for a brief period like, say, as long as the tests are being conducted. And that text is available anyway as PDFs with copypaste enabled, which means it is open for access by anyone. (We are almost wondering, indeed, do we need to ask anyone for permission? What is the legal situation?) Our index would just make the locating of specific rules easier, and there's no commercial motivation behind it whatsoever. We are no company, just a library that has done some open source software. B.Eversberg
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010, Bernhard Eversberg wrote: This is a question for Mr. Linker: What would be the position of your company about it? Our database is derived from the 2008 full draft, not the current text. There have been a lot of changes to RDA content since that draft, including numbering changes as well as revised and new text and examples. It should not be relied on as a substitute for the final content that's available through the RDA Toolkit. --Adam Schiff ** * Adam L. Schiff * * Principal Cataloger* * University of Washington Libraries * * Box 352900 * * Seattle, WA 98195-2900 * * (206) 543-8409 * * (206) 685-8782 fax * * asch...@u.washington.edu * **
Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st
Linda I agree with you. As a cataloger in a small library I could not put RDA in my budget during this economic difficulties. Katherine Quoting Linda Dausch ldau...@chipublib.org: I agree completely with the thought below. Additionally, if the creators of RDA hope to have the standard adopted by educators, system developers, researchers, the wider metadata community, database developers, IT staff, library and computer education professors, museums staff, etc., I hope that it is under consideration at least for the future that RDA be made an open-access standard, like Dublin Core, VRA Core, etc. Linda Sheridan Dausch Electronic Resources Serials Librarian Technical Services Chicago Public Library 400 S State St., 3S-12 Chicago, IL 60605 voice: 312.747.4652 ldau...@chipublib.orgmailto:ldau...@chipublib.org www.chicagopubliclibrary.orghttp://www.chicagopubliclibrary.org/ From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Bothmann, Robert L Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:22 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st My opinion/suggestion: It would be ideal to allow open access to the RDA rules via rdatoolkit.org throughout the entirety of all three of the U.S. Libraries testing phases. Testers will be creating records in the second phase of the test period, which is about to begin, and that is when I think most people would really benefit from RDA open access-they could look at RDA records side-by-side with the rules. This would allow for more transparency and more input from libraries outside of the testing group. Asking people to pay for access to a code of rules that has not been formally (nor even informally) adopted by the library community is, in my opinion, outrageous. Keep RDA access open until we decide we will implement it. *** Robert Bothmann Electronic Access/Catalog Librarian Associate Professor, Library Services From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:rd...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Troy Linker Sent: Thursday, 26 August, 2010 11:35 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Keep your access to RDA after August 31st The complimentary open-access period to the RDA Toolkit ends August 31, 2010. Thanks to the thousands of people who have tried out the RDA Toolkit during the 10-week open-access period. We'll be sending a brief survey in the near future seeking your input, to help us improve the product and develop the most useful training. Here's how you can retain or obtain access to the RDA Toolkit after August 31: * Subscribe now visit http://www.rdatoolkit.org/subscribe for information. While your subscription is in process, we'll work with you on retaining seamless access. Don't forget-Special Double-User Introductory Offer! Subscribe at any site license level to the RDA Toolkit before August 31, 2011-a year from now-and get double the purchased number of concurrent users of the RDA Toolkit at no additional charge. (For example, buy a 2-user site license and get a 4-user license for the same price.) * Check what kind of subscription or access your consortium plans to offer. * Order through your subscription agency. Resource Description and Access (RDA) and the RDA Toolkit are published by the Co-Publishers for RDA (the American Library Association, the Canadian Library Association, and Facet Publishing, the publishing arm of CILIP: the Chartered Institute of Library and Information Katherine R. Morgan Technical Services/Administrative Assistant Norway Memorial Library 207-743-5309
Re: [RDA-L] Consortial purchases
Apologies, that last message should not have gone out to the entire list. Nick - Nicholas T. Bennyhoff Technology Development Manager Lewis Clark Library System Edwardsville, IL 62025 (618) 656-3216 ext.106 nicholasbennyh...@lcls.org
[RDA-L] Love the word substitution
From the plans for European adoption of RDA RDA Sweden contributed to constituency review of full draft Early adoption is the *objection* Translation into Swedish *emphasis added __ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca) {__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/ ___} |__ \__