Re: mb feathertools cache issue
With the re grooming you could just save out your old weight maps and reapply them Maybe as long as you have not edited the mesh! Ben On 5 November 2013 15:41, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Just thought I'd give you an update about this... Mr MB had a look at our scenes and encountered the same problem with reading the cache - the feather instances appeared on frame 1 but disappeared on subsequent frames. As there were some nested models under the main chicken model it was thought that there was confusion with ICE recognising certain elements of the setup... I ran a test by removing the nested models and there was no change - still a problem reading the cache. His suggestion was it was a soft cache reading error as it was a little sporadic with the errors we were getting. After much faffing and eliminating every conceivable thing from the list of things that could cause an issue we started over. Removed EVERYTHING other than the meshes to be surfaced with feathers. The feathers were remade and then I reapplied the rig with saved out envelope weights. So far so good. Maybe the issue was with the initial build of the feather system? No answer but problem solved. Although the re-grooming of the feathers obviously adds time, at least we have a setup that works including writing the cache out from referenced animation models and applying it to referenced render models. Thanks for your thoughts. Jonny On 4 November 2013 19:53, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.comwrote: You might be right Jonny, been a while since I used it. I am sure you can look see what attributes are being written and find the instance one - it is most likely an integer that can then be fed into an instance node. S. On 2013/11/04 9:01 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: The problem is, Sandy, that I cannot recreate the instancing section of the ice tree. The compound for MB feather tools is not explorable. You simply point it at an instance group but the allocation of each individual feather instance is defined by an envelope weight on a duplicate of the render mesh (called the envelope mesh) Under the hood this will give the particles a custom attribute (I'm guessing) that is used to inform which instance each particle should use-the same goes for size and rate but driven by a weight map that is local to the render mesh. Determining which attribute is being used and how is what I would need to know in order to use on a secondary ice tree by using the set instance geometry node in my 'cache read' particle cloud. MB looking at it but cache issue could be down to how the feather tools were set up originally or some kind of internal confusion due to the fact we have 3 separate feather tool setups all referencing the same instance feather group. Will report back when I know more. Jonny
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
Cheers, Ben. Good call - and no the mesh hasn't changed... but we want to steer completely clear of using anything that was involved in the previous setup call it superstition if you like but I don't want to risk adding anything that might have been involved in the initial corruption! As it goes the setup looks better than before anyway - it pays to do things over and over even if it does leave you sobbing quietly over your keyboard in the early hours! *-- * *Jonny Grew Ltd * *www.Jonnygrew.com http://www.Jonnygrew.com* *http://vimeo.com/jonnygrew/showreel2013*http://vimeo.com/jonnygrew/showreel2013 *07855 212722* Jonny Grew Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company number:07735521 VAT number: 122713057 This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Jonny Grew Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. On 5 November 2013 16:07, Ben Beckett nebbeck...@gmail.com wrote: With the re grooming you could just save out your old weight maps and reapply them Maybe as long as you have not edited the mesh! Ben On 5 November 2013 15:41, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Just thought I'd give you an update about this... Mr MB had a look at our scenes and encountered the same problem with reading the cache - the feather instances appeared on frame 1 but disappeared on subsequent frames. As there were some nested models under the main chicken model it was thought that there was confusion with ICE recognising certain elements of the setup... I ran a test by removing the nested models and there was no change - still a problem reading the cache. His suggestion was it was a soft cache reading error as it was a little sporadic with the errors we were getting. After much faffing and eliminating every conceivable thing from the list of things that could cause an issue we started over. Removed EVERYTHING other than the meshes to be surfaced with feathers. The feathers were remade and then I reapplied the rig with saved out envelope weights. So far so good. Maybe the issue was with the initial build of the feather system? No answer but problem solved. Although the re-grooming of the feathers obviously adds time, at least we have a setup that works including writing the cache out from referenced animation models and applying it to referenced render models. Thanks for your thoughts. Jonny On 4 November 2013 19:53, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.comwrote: You might be right Jonny, been a while since I used it. I am sure you can look see what attributes are being written and find the instance one - it is most likely an integer that can then be fed into an instance node. S. On 2013/11/04 9:01 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: The problem is, Sandy, that I cannot recreate the instancing section of the ice tree. The compound for MB feather tools is not explorable. You simply point it at an instance group but the allocation of each individual feather instance is defined by an envelope weight on a duplicate of the render mesh (called the envelope mesh) Under the hood this will give the particles a custom attribute (I'm guessing) that is used to inform which instance each particle should use-the same goes for size and rate but driven by a weight map that is local to the render mesh. Determining which attribute is being used and how is what I would need to know in order to use on a secondary ice tree by using the set instance geometry node in my 'cache read' particle cloud. MB looking at it but cache issue could be down to how the feather tools were set up originally or some kind of internal confusion due to the fact we have 3 separate feather tool setups all referencing the same instance feather group. Will report back when I know more. Jonny
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
Forgot to say 2013 sp1 - testing in 2014 now but the fear of switching version mid project makes me reluctant!! *-- * *Jonny Grew Ltd * *www.Jonnygrew.com http://www.Jonnygrew.com* *http://vimeo.com/jonnygrew/showreel2013*http://vimeo.com/jonnygrew/showreel2013 *07855 212722* Jonny Grew Limited is registered in England and Wales. Company number:07735521 VAT number: 122713057 This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Jonny Grew Ltd. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. On 4 November 2013 16:05, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Hello list, Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on some issues we have with mb feather tools When we're caching out the pointcloud we're getting sporadic results in reading the cache back. We have 3 separate mb feather tool setups (body, head and wings) all under different models. These all reference the same feather group in it's own model) and all nodes have been switched to say 'this_model' as advised within the documentation. We're using 6 different feathers and populating the surface using the envelope weights on the 'envelope mesh' that determines which feather within the feather group goes where. This all works great when live but when caching out we're finding that either: 1/The instances aren't there (the particles are - you can see if you change the pointcloud display property to point) 2/Certain feathers are missing (ie feather 3 and 4). You can force the instances to be visible by adding another ice tree on the empty cache read point cloud with a 'set instance geometry' node, however this only populates with the first feather in the feather group. - As the compounds are locked we're not sure what attribute we could use to ensure that the correct feathers are in the correct place. It appears that when things do sporadicly work that they only do from a single scene. Exporting the model from this scene and caching causes even weirder results which means it looks like using reference models in our animation scenes is a no-go. We'll have to export animation action clips, apply them into this scene that sporadicly works and export the ICE Cache into our render scene. Any pointers much appreciated on stating our blindingly obvious faults or hooky work-arounds. Cheers Jonny
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
I have found it is safest, and I presume you are using ICE Cache? ..to setup the instancing on the point cloud reading the cache in - i.e. I copy and paste the instance section from the original cloud to the in cloud. So you can either read in the cache into the mixer, or a cache node - then if mixer add a simple ICE tree that does just instancing. Does this make any sense? S. On 2013/11/04 6:05 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: Hello list, Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on some issues we have with mb feather tools When we're caching out the pointcloud we're getting sporadic results in reading the cache back. We have 3 separate mb feather tool setups (body, head and wings) all under different models. These all reference the same feather group in it's own model) and all nodes have been switched to say 'this_model' as advised within the documentation. We're using 6 different feathers and populating the surface using the envelope weights on the 'envelope mesh' that determines which feather within the feather group goes where. This all works great when live but when caching out we're finding that either: 1/The instances aren't there (the particles are - you can see if you change the pointcloud display property to point) 2/Certain feathers are missing (ie feather 3 and 4). You can force the instances to be visible by adding another ice tree on the empty cache read point cloud with a 'set instance geometry' node, however this only populates with the first feather in the feather group. - As the compounds are locked we're not sure what attribute we could use to ensure that the correct feathers are in the correct place. It appears that when things do sporadicly work that they only do from a single scene. Exporting the model from this scene and caching causes even weirder results which means it looks like using reference models in our animation scenes is a no-go. We'll have to export animation action clips, apply them into this scene that sporadicly works and export the ICE Cache into our render scene. Any pointers much appreciated on stating our blindingly obvious faults or hooky work-arounds. Cheers Jonny
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben On 4 November 2013 16:05, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Hello list, Just wondered if anyone can shed any light on some issues we have with mb feather tools When we're caching out the pointcloud we're getting sporadic results in reading the cache back. We have 3 separate mb feather tool setups (body, head and wings) all under different models. These all reference the same feather group in it's own model) and all nodes have been switched to say 'this_model' as advised within the documentation. We're using 6 different feathers and populating the surface using the envelope weights on the 'envelope mesh' that determines which feather within the feather group goes where. This all works great when live but when caching out we're finding that either: 1/The instances aren't there (the particles are - you can see if you change the pointcloud display property to point) 2/Certain feathers are missing (ie feather 3 and 4). You can force the instances to be visible by adding another ice tree on the empty cache read point cloud with a 'set instance geometry' node, however this only populates with the first feather in the feather group. - As the compounds are locked we're not sure what attribute we could use to ensure that the correct feathers are in the correct place. It appears that when things do sporadicly work that they only do from a single scene. Exporting the model from this scene and caching causes even weirder results which means it looks like using reference models in our animation scenes is a no-go. We'll have to export animation action clips, apply them into this scene that sporadicly works and export the ICE Cache into our render scene. Any pointers much appreciated on stating our blindingly obvious faults or hooky work-arounds. Cheers Jonny
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
I found this plugin brill but its a bit of a fiddle, There is a addon out there that will export all the feathers together as one mesh. I've seen at Glassworks, if that person want to give it out I suggest you set up a new thread to see if this person comes forward. He all over this list, so he may! Start your title with some thing like, this was once a thread Freeze ICE tree to geometry? Ben On 4 November 2013 16:53, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
If you were going that route maybe emTopolizer2 would be another solution? http://www.mootzoid.com/plugin/emtopolizer2 For the original issue it sounds like the ice custom attributes 'optimisation' problem. Without knowing which attributes are resonsible for the instance picking you're a bit stuck though, especially with closed compounds. On 4 November 2013 17:11, Ben Beckett nebbeck...@gmail.com wrote: I found this plugin brill but its a bit of a fiddle, There is a addon out there that will export all the feathers together as one mesh. I've seen at Glassworks, if that person want to give it out I suggest you set up a new thread to see if this person comes forward. He all over this list, so he may! Start your title with some thing like, this was once a thread Freeze ICE tree to geometry? Ben On 4 November 2013 16:53, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben -- www.matinai.com
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
Cheers, Ben - Will do. We're packing up a scene with the problem to mr MB himself too so we'll see if he can shed some light on it! - Hopefully not stating that we've made a fundamental mistake that will make us look like knobs! Yep, Matt... That's the problem... but again if Mr MB can show is which attributes can be used to force a particular instance then that too would be handy.. I'll be sure to update with our results/work arounds! I'll take a look at EM's thang too. Thanks Thanks for your help, guys Jonny On 4 November 2013 17:19, Matt Morris matt...@gmail.com wrote: If you were going that route maybe emTopolizer2 would be another solution? http://www.mootzoid.com/plugin/emtopolizer2 For the original issue it sounds like the ice custom attributes 'optimisation' problem. Without knowing which attributes are resonsible for the instance picking you're a bit stuck though, especially with closed compounds. On 4 November 2013 17:11, Ben Beckett nebbeck...@gmail.com wrote: I found this plugin brill but its a bit of a fiddle, There is a addon out there that will export all the feathers together as one mesh. I've seen at Glassworks, if that person want to give it out I suggest you set up a new thread to see if this person comes forward. He all over this list, so he may! Start your title with some thing like, this was once a thread Freeze ICE tree to geometry? Ben On 4 November 2013 16:53, Jonny Grew jonny.g...@gmail.com wrote: Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben -- www.matinai.com
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
ICEcache mode should work fine - you just need to possible recreate or copy the Instancing section on the cloud in. S. On 2013/11/04 6:53 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com mailto:sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
The problem is, Sandy, that I cannot recreate the instancing section of the ice tree. The compound for MB feather tools is not explorable. You simply point it at an instance group but the allocation of each individual feather instance is defined by an envelope weight on a duplicate of the render mesh (called the envelope mesh) Under the hood this will give the particles a custom attribute (I'm guessing) that is used to inform which instance each particle should use-the same goes for size and rate but driven by a weight map that is local to the render mesh. Determining which attribute is being used and how is what I would need to know in order to use on a secondary ice tree by using the set instance geometry node in my 'cache read' particle cloud. MB looking at it but cache issue could be down to how the feather tools were set up originally or some kind of internal confusion due to the fact we have 3 separate feather tool setups all referencing the same instance feather group. Will report back when I know more. Jonny On Nov 4, 2013 5:58 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: ICEcache mode should work fine - you just need to possible recreate or copy the Instancing section on the cloud in. S. On 2013/11/04 6:53 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: Cheers, guys. So it appears that with either of these methods we can only get it to work with one feather type? Am I missing something? As we can't access the attribute that defines the feather type (1-6 within the group) the set instance doesn't look like an option and the polymesh duplicator only allows one instance object too? I seem to remember that momentum has an instance to geometry function but the studio I'm at doesn't have it. Is there another instance to geometry script out there? I can't seen to find one. Cheers On Nov 4, 2013 4:24 PM, Sandy Sutherland sandy.mailli...@gmail.com wrote: We did it this way too on Zam - but you can only use one instance this way, unless things have changed since then? S. On 2013/11/04 6:22 PM, Ben Beckett wrote: I have been working with this feather tool for two years now my formula to make it work is: Step1 In scene one Create the feathers with mbfeather tool on your character save this as a base scene Step2 PolyMesh Duplicate the feathers (this example is for one type of feathers) Step3 With that *poly mesh* of the feathers, save it out as a obj and texturing that.(remeber to set the UVs before export) Step4 In scene two, I animate the bird. Then point caching animated Character and a applying the cache to the mbfeather character in your base scene, the character now movers and the feathers go with him. Step5 cache the mbfeathers* Poly mesh* as it still is linked to the mbfeathers sim Step6 apply the cache to the exported obj, in scene two, the animated scene. Works nicely Ben
Re: mb feathertools cache issue
You might be right Jonny, been a while since I used it. I am sure you can look see what attributes are being written and find the instance one - it is most likely an integer that can then be fed into an instance node. S. On 2013/11/04 9:01 PM, Jonny Grew wrote: The problem is, Sandy, that I cannot recreate the instancing section of the ice tree. The compound for MB feather tools is not explorable. You simply point it at an instance group but the allocation of each individual feather instance is defined by an envelope weight on a duplicate of the render mesh (called the envelope mesh) Under the hood this will give the particles a custom attribute (I'm guessing) that is used to inform which instance each particle should use-the same goes for size and rate but driven by a weight map that is local to the render mesh. Determining which attribute is being used and how is what I would need to know in order to use on a secondary ice tree by using the set instance geometry node in my 'cache read' particle cloud. MB looking at it but cache issue could be down to how the feather tools were set up originally or some kind of internal confusion due to the fact we have 3 separate feather tool setups all referencing the same instance feather group. Will report back when I know more. Jonny
