Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-21 Thread Frank King 
Dear Roger,

Delighted to see that you heed my Rule 2:

 2. Never believe anything you read
anywhere [else] without checking.

Very properly you have checked my assertions
and found them wanting!  That's the kind of
guy I like!

I was basing my false assertions on a report
from an erstwhile colleague of mine who was
in India for three years.  He told me about
his frightening taxi ride 18 months ago to
the site of this sundial - all for my benefit!

He DID add "This complex seems to be work
in progress and maybe one day there will
be better access."

It seems this has happened already which
is very quick by local standards!

I very much echo this thought:

> In any case, celebrate the return of
> the sun, the winter solstice at 10:44 
> UTC 21 Dec 2016.

I stood to attention just under two
hours ago and feel much better as a
result.

Very best wishes

Frank
13:34 UTC 2016-12-21


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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-20 Thread Roger Bailey 

Hello Frank and all,

Consider the third dimension, elevation

Google maps show the view from space of the plane (X,Y). Go to Google street 
view for pictures showing the elevations (Z). The ring road around the 
sundial is a flyover on piers for traffic going south east turning and 
merging to head west. Street view pictures show lots of access for people 
and cars under the flyover. People live there, work there, trying to eke out 
a living.


Consider the fourth dimension, time. One street view picture shows the 
incomplete flyover ending abruptly at a sign announcing the 2010 
Commonwealth games. How has this site changed with time? How do people 
observe time as they rush around the flyover ring? Perhaps this explains the 
strange morning hour lines on the sundial accommodating people rushing past, 
the kind of people that set their clocks ahead so they can avoid being late, 
people that believe daylight savings time is useful.


The Institute of Driving and Traffic Research is across the road. Perhaps 
this sundial is a research project on the time space continuum of Delhi's 
roads and traffic.


In any case, celebrate the return of the sun, the winter solstice at 10:44 
UTC 21 Dec 2016.


Best Regards, Roger Bailey



--
From: "Frank King" <f...@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:31 AM
To: "Maes, F.W." <f.w.m...@rug.nl>
Cc: "Sundial Mailing List" <sundial@uni-koeln.de>
Subject: Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?


Dear Frans,

I was interested and amused by your comments
on the Delhi sundial...


According to the newspaper article...


Huh!  I live by two simple rules:

 1. Never believe anything you read in
Newspapers without checking.

 2. Never believe anything you read
anywhere else without checking.

I really ought to have a rule "1a" which
is "to be especially careful of newspapers
published in India."  They seem very prone
to exaggeration: the suggestion that this
dial is "one of the largest scientifically
accurate sundials in the world" is typical!

 This sundial most certainly does not
 merit the attribution "accurate".

It seems to me to be flawed in many
respects.  Most recent photographs
taken in the city seem to show a
very murky atmosphere: this sundial
rarely sees the sun!

The site is almost inaccessible
and it is a really good joke that,
surrounding this sundial, there are
many seats for people to sit on!
These seats will never be used
until there is a helicopter
service!

Very best wishes

Frank

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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-20 Thread Frank King 
Dear Frans,

I was interested and amused by your comments
on the Delhi sundial...

> According to the newspaper article...

Huh!  I live by two simple rules:

  1. Never believe anything you read in
 Newspapers without checking.

  2. Never believe anything you read
 anywhere else without checking.

I really ought to have a rule "1a" which
is "to be especially careful of newspapers
published in India."  They seem very prone
to exaggeration: the suggestion that this
dial is "one of the largest scientifically
accurate sundials in the world" is typical!

  This sundial most certainly does not
  merit the attribution "accurate".

It seems to me to be flawed in many
respects.  Most recent photographs
taken in the city seem to show a
very murky atmosphere: this sundial
rarely sees the sun!

The site is almost inaccessible
and it is a really good joke that,
surrounding this sundial, there are
many seats for people to sit on!
These seats will never be used
until there is a helicopter
service!

Very best wishes

Frank

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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-19 Thread Maes, F.W. 
Hi Frank,

Although it was not the start topic, I had a look at the new (no capital N)
Delhi sundial. According to the newspaper article, "the sundial has been
recently certified as one of the largest scientifically ACCURATE sundials
in the world." (my capitalization). Even if the attachment would not pass
the size filter, it is clear that the hour lines, visible from outer space,
do not warrant this attribution.

Best regards,
Frans Maes

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Beverly Stimpson <
beverly.stimp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In message <2a50dfe...@users.interwebs.com>
>   Beverly Stimpson  wrote:
>
> >
> > Do the members of this list know, whether there are some (or even ANY)
> > sundial designers in INDIA - since I have a potentially very lucrative
> > business proposal, especially for use within the 'Educational Sector'.
> >
>
>
> Thanks to the (few) people, who had contacted me privately - especially
> Martina Addiscott, who gave me the perfect 'contact' for my purposes.
>
> Though it may seem strange, their main thrust is "aero-modelling" (see
> website at www.aero-sports.in) - but those people have the exact mix of
> educational contacts and expertise, needed for my business proposal.
>
>
> One of their 'Franchisees' is Rajbir Singh Grewal 
> who operates a travelling "StarLab" planetarium, which visits schools
> across India - and he has already expressed interest in my idea, which
> involves combining 'sundials' with 'physical education'.  Please note,
> it has NOTHING to do with playground sundials of the Analemmatic type.
>
> Incidentally, in answer to a previous question - I would NOT require
> 'manufacturing' contacts, since if this is needed at all it should be
> within the capability of any individual local school/college in India.
>
>
> Before anyone asks, the reason I have chosen India - is because this
> concept is only suitable for very LOW latitudes within the 'tropics',
> to which traditional sundials (and Analemmatics) are not best suited.
>
> Also, because India is largely an 'English-speaking' country - I will
> therefore avoid any difficulties, associated with language barriers.
>
>
> My thanks again to the people who responded, but I now have the basis
> of this business - with a pre-established 'network', covering India !
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Beverly Stimpson.
>
> ---
> https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
>
>
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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-19 Thread Beverly Stimpson 
In message <2a50dfe...@users.interwebs.com>
  Beverly Stimpson  wrote:

> 
> Do the members of this list know, whether there are some (or even ANY)
> sundial designers in INDIA - since I have a potentially very lucrative
> business proposal, especially for use within the 'Educational Sector'.
> 


Thanks to the (few) people, who had contacted me privately - especially
Martina Addiscott, who gave me the perfect 'contact' for my purposes.

Though it may seem strange, their main thrust is "aero-modelling" (see
website at www.aero-sports.in) - but those people have the exact mix of
educational contacts and expertise, needed for my business proposal.


One of their 'Franchisees' is Rajbir Singh Grewal 
who operates a travelling "StarLab" planetarium, which visits schools
across India - and he has already expressed interest in my idea, which
involves combining 'sundials' with 'physical education'.  Please note,
it has NOTHING to do with playground sundials of the Analemmatic type.

Incidentally, in answer to a previous question - I would NOT require
'manufacturing' contacts, since if this is needed at all it should be
within the capability of any individual local school/college in India.


Before anyone asks, the reason I have chosen India - is because this
concept is only suitable for very LOW latitudes within the 'tropics',
to which traditional sundials (and Analemmatics) are not best suited.

Also, because India is largely an 'English-speaking' country - I will
therefore avoid any difficulties, associated with language barriers.


My thanks again to the people who responded, but I now have the basis
of this business - with a pre-established 'network', covering India !


Regards,

Beverly Stimpson.

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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-19 Thread Frank King 
Dear Beverley,

You ask:

> Do the members of this list know,
> whether there are some (or even ANY)
> sundial designers in INDIA...

There are several modern sundials in India
so someone must be designing them!  I have
even had a hand in a dial in Goa [do you
count that as India?] myself.

To take just one example, go into Google
Maps and zoom into:

  28.582888N  77.265734E

There you will see a spectacular large
new sundial in Delhi.  You can clearly
see the hour lines.

There are only three minor snags:

 1. Delhi has terrible air pollution
and the sun rarely shines on this
instrument.

 2. It is situated in the middle of
a complex of urban highways and
is impossible to get to on foot.
[Intrepid sundial enthusiasts go
by taxi.  You have to persuade
the driver to stop in the fast
lane so you can get out.  You
also have to persuade the driver
to come back to collect you or
you may never escape!]

 3. There are echoes of the Oughtred
versus Delamain spat over the
double horizontal sundial.

To give the flavour of Snag 3, I
suggest you read the Hindustan Times:

  http://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/DDA-sundial

You will see that the Delhi Development
Authority are claiming ownership of the
Intellectual Property.  Quite separately,
Gagan Vij who did all the work claims
Artistic Ownership.

You say that you have a potentially very
lucrative business proposal.  Maybe you
should read this article twice!  It is
definitely a cautionary tale!

Frank

Frank H King
Cambridge, U.K.

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Re: Are there some Sundial Designers, in INDIA ?

2016-12-17 Thread Mina Jain 
Hi, Beverly,

You mean designers or some one who can produce?

Historically, jaipur is the place there are giant sundials.

Let  me know . I am an architect, who worked on conservation of Jaipur
Jantar Mantar.

regards,

Mina Jain


On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Beverly Stimpson <
beverly.stimp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Do the members of this list know, whether there are some (or even ANY)
> sundial designers in INDIA - since I have a potentially very lucrative
> business proposal, especially for use within the 'Educational Sector'.
>
> I know that there are sources of mass-produced (mainly brass) 'garden'
> dials, originating from that part of the world - but I am NOT really
> interested in such manufacturers, but am looking for other contacts.
>
> Regards,
>
> Beverly Stimpson.
>
> --
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>
>
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