[biofuels-biz] EREN Network News -- 06/19/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- June 19, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events NAFTA Commission Calls for Carbon Trading, Renewable Energy DOE Aims to Buy Nearly 5 Percent Green Power by 2005 BLM Finds Renewable Energy Potential in 11 Western States Shell to Develop Multi-Megawatt Fuel Cells for Oil Platforms EPA Launches Energy Star Rating for Hotels Successful Test of Solar-Grade Silicon Production Process Wind Energy, Cogeneration Developer Files for Bankruptcy *Energy Facts and Tips U.S. Struggles to Upgrade its Electrical Transmission System *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- NAFTA Commission Calls for Carbon Trading, Renewable Energy The countries of North America should develop a carbon emissions trading system and promote renewable energy and energy efficiency, according to a report issued on Monday by the Commission for Environmental Cooperation (CEC). The CEC was established by Canada, Mexico and the United States to build cooperation among the partners in implementing the environmental accords included in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The new report, Environmental Challenges and Opportunities of the Evolving North American Electricity Market, was prepared for the CEC by an expert advisory board. The board specifically recommends forming a North American fund to promote the adoption of best available emission control technologies, energy efficiency measures, and energy conservation within the NAFTA countries. It also urges the NAFTA countries to promote the development and use of renewable energy through increased market-based incentives and funding. And in addition to a carbon emissions trading system, the board recommends continent-wide trading systems for emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxides. See the CEC press release at: http://www.cec.org/news/details/index.cfm?ID=2483. See the full report, as well as nine background papers (including one on renewable energy) and comments from the three governments, on the CEC Web site at: http://www.cec.org/pubs_docs/documents/index.cfm?ID=842. The United States is committed to expanding energy trading with its North American neighbors and to strengthening North American energy markets. The North American Energy Working Group, formed to help meet these commitments, issued its first report last week. North America -- The Energy Picture presents an overview of the energy situation on the continent. See the DOE press release, with a link to the full report, at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases02/junpr/pr02101.htm. A North American trading system for carbon emissions would represent a significant step toward addressing climate change issues and (as noted in the CEC report) would promote energy efficiency and renewable energy. Although President Bush has rejected the Kyoto Protocol, which would have mandated some form of carbon emissions trading, the United States is taking action at the federal and state levels to address climate change. According to the Pew Center on Global Climate Change, the business community is also doing its part. See the June 11th report, Climate Change Activities in the United States, on the Pew Center's Web site at: http://www.pewclimate.org/projects/us_activities2.cfm. DOE Aims to Buy Nearly 5 Percent Green Power by 2005 DOE intends to draw on renewable energy sources to provide at least 140 million kilowatt-hours of electricity for the department by 2005, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham announced last week. That represents nearly 5 percent of DOE's electricity use, which totaled about 3 billion kilowatt-hours in 1999. DOE will also help people throughout the West buy green power by offering a green tags program through its Western Area Power Administration, which markets federal hydropower in 15 western states. The program will allow Western's customers to support renewable energy projects by buying their environmental attributes, while the actual power from the projects will be sold into the traditional power market. Speaking at the 13th Annual Energy Efficiency Forum at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Secretary Abraham noted that DOE used 43.5 percent less energy in 2002 than it did in 1985, and expects to further increase its energy efficiency by 2 percent per year in the years ahead. Secretary Abraham noted that high-efficiency lighting using solid- state light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, shows significant potential for future energy savings. To advance LED lighting technology, Secretary Abraham announced that
[biofuels-biz] Biofuels for the emerging nations
I need information if there are any projects pertaining to biofuels for East African Countries(Tanzania, Kenya and Uganda)? Nizar W. Ramji - Post your ad for free now! Yahoo! Canada Personals [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: AW: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?
G'day Keith Camillo Thanks for the information, leads and suggestions.Can I please ask, what does DIYS IMHO stand forsomething about do it yourself? I presume when you mention about using an alcohol to lower cloud point, methanol could be as easily used, but is not the fuel of choice because of its origin. Somthing of interest, just thinking about fuels. Not far from where I live, in a little place called Wolsley, there are some relics from a by gone era, huge cement fuel tanks sitting out in the middle of a farmers paddock. Apparently they were used during the second world war to hold fuel reserves...and I think ( if my memory dosn't fail me ) they actually produced the fuel there...ethanol... I presume. I just thought that was interesting. Regards Steven Keith Addison wrote: Hello Camillo, Steve snip,snip 100% mutton fat: Yes, we do offer technology for that feedstock. But sorry, nothing for DIYS IMHO. Try this, good for tallow and lard - if it doesn't handle 100% you might have to mix it with some SVO or WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html Cloud point IS THE NUMBER ONE problem we all have with the cheap feedstocks though. Sorry to push this, but I found adding 10% ethanol lowered cloud point quite a useful amount, maybe more so in this case. It was 95% ethanol, by the way. Best Keith Bye for now, Camillo -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 23:48 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ? G'day Camillo, Thanks for the comments but can I ask the question.by what method/s of analysis do you determine the quality of Bio-diesel? I had a hinch that Glycerine would've been a specific nuber before its removal, and so a fatty acid analysis would've indicated the completeness of a reaction? It is good to know that in European systems you do in fact use raw feedstock. Just to throw another feedstock into the ball park...100%.mutton fat. I think someone on another thread mentioned something about the smell of kitten vomityes...fairly nasty smelling stuffbut produced the best looking fuel I've seen. Only problem...has a cloud point of about 16 degrees! Is it possible to alter the cloud point using surfactants? Have you done any work with regards to the use of tallows Camillo? I'd be interested to hear. Regards Steven Camillo Holecek wrote: If it helps to clarify, here are my two (EURO) cent: ALL commercial BD produced in Europe is made from raw oil, nobody bothers to refine (if they can). The fatty acid composition you mention has little to do with quality. It depends only on the feedstock AND GOES UNCHANGED THROUGH TRANSESTERIFICATION !!! Therefore it does not say anything on the quality of a biodiesel production. Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 15:26 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering G'day Keith, It's Steve Hobbs here. I have only two pieces of reference for my work. 1 - My humble 18 year old Nissan ute that has now travelled 7000 kms on a 40% cold pressed BD dino diesel mix and appears in all respects to be travelling fine (perhaps even better that fine, engine rattle has substantially reduced, cold starts improved, reduced smoke, etc..the ute is due to have injectors removed and inspected by an impartial party) 2 - I've had a sample of coldpressed BD analysised for fatty acid composition, which I guess would give an idea of the quality of the fuel by what fatty acids are and aren't present in my fuel. If you could Keith, I'd be interested to compare the fatty acid composition of my farm made cold pressed BD to commercially produced BD to see how the quality stacks up. So, here is the analysis C16:0C18:0C18:1C18:2C18:3C20:0C20:1C22:0 3.90 4.83 80.54 9.29 0.00 0.37 0.00 1.07 If you could provide me with a commentary on the quality of my fuel, it would be appreciated. Regards Steven snip, snip, snip,etc Keith Addison wrote: When compared with the costs of refining vegetable oils by degumming, neutralisation, bleaching etc., the cost of transesterifying raw oils is not; or should not be; excessive. Steve Hobbs has shown that the transesterification (with washing)of raw oil effectivelty removes the contaminants. I've seen various conflicting statements about that. Do you have a reference for Steve Hobbs's work? Best wishes Keith Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at
Re: AW: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?
G'day Steven G'day Keith Camillo Thanks for the information, leads and suggestions.Can I please ask, what does DIYS IMHO stand forsomething about do it yourself? Do-it-yourselfers, in my humble opinion. I presume when you mention about using an alcohol to lower cloud point, methanol could be as easily used, but is not the fuel of choice because of its origin. Yes, I guess that's right. I was working with ethanol and found cloud point improvement, other interests too with ethanol blends, so I didn't try methanol, but certainly worth trying. That biodiesel had quite a low cloud point anyway, I've no idea what effect it might have on your high-CP muttonfat BD. Please let us know anything you find. Somthing of interest, just thinking about fuels. Not far from where I live, in a little place called Wolsley, there are some relics from a by gone era, huge cement fuel tanks sitting out in the middle of a farmers paddock. Apparently they were used during the second world war to hold fuel reserves...and I think ( if my memory dosn't fail me ) they actually produced the fuel there...ethanol... I presume. I just thought that was interesting. Hopefully a sign of a forthcoming era too, Steven. Best wishes Keith Regards Steven Keith Addison wrote: Hello Camillo, Steve snip,snip 100% mutton fat: Yes, we do offer technology for that feedstock. But sorry, nothing for DIYS IMHO. Try this, good for tallow and lard - if it doesn't handle 100% you might have to mix it with some SVO or WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html Cloud point IS THE NUMBER ONE problem we all have with the cheap feedstocks though. Sorry to push this, but I found adding 10% ethanol lowered cloud point quite a useful amount, maybe more so in this case. It was 95% ethanol, by the way. Best Keith Bye for now, Camillo -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 23:48 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ? G'day Camillo, Thanks for the comments but can I ask the question.by what method/s of analysis do you determine the quality of Bio-diesel? I had a hinch that Glycerine would've been a specific nuber before its removal, and so a fatty acid analysis would've indicated the completeness of a reaction? It is good to know that in European systems you do in fact use raw feedstock. Just to throw another feedstock into the ball park...100%.mutton fat. I think someone on another thread mentioned something about the smell of kitten vomityes...fairly nasty smelling stuffbut produced the best looking fuel I've seen. Only problem...has a cloud point of about 16 degrees! Is it possible to alter the cloud point using surfactants? Have you done any work with regards to the use of tallows Camillo? I'd be interested to hear. Regards Steven Camillo Holecek wrote: If it helps to clarify, here are my two (EURO) cent: ALL commercial BD produced in Europe is made from raw oil, nobody bothers to refine (if they can). The fatty acid composition you mention has little to do with quality. It depends only on the feedstock AND GOES UNCHANGED THROUGH TRANSESTERIFICATION !!! Therefore it does not say anything on the quality of a biodiesel production. Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 15:26 An: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering G'day Keith, It's Steve Hobbs here. I have only two pieces of reference for my work. 1 - My humble 18 year old Nissan ute that has now travelled 7000 kms on a 40% cold pressed BD dino diesel mix and appears in all respects to be travelling fine (perhaps even better that fine, engine rattle has substantially reduced, cold starts improved, reduced smoke, etc..the ute is due to have injectors removed and inspected by an impartial party) 2 - I've had a sample of coldpressed BD analysised for fatty acid composition, which I guess would give an idea of the quality of the fuel by what fatty acids are and aren't present in my fuel. If you could Keith, I'd be interested to compare the fatty acid composition of my farm made cold pressed BD to commercially produced BD to see how the quality stacks up. So, here is the analysis C16:0C18:0C18:1C18:2C18:3C20:0C20:1C22:0 3.90 4.83 80.54 9.29 0.00 0.37 0.00 1.07 If you could provide me with a commentary on the quality of my fuel, it would be appreciated. Regards Steven snip, snip,
Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?
Actually the methanol doesn't mix that well with the biodiesel. IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) does and seems to have a beneficial effect at quite low concentrations 2% even. IPA isn't cheap here, 95% ethanol, even at 10% is attractive since that is what is sold as metholated spirits. Tony clogged up again this morning-looked like mud- really must get across the need to add the biocide.(sorry Kieth) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Steven G'day Keith Camillo Thanks for the information, leads and suggestions.Can I please ask, what does DIYS IMHO stand forsomething about do it yourself? Do-it-yourselfers, in my humble opinion. I presume when you mention about using an alcohol to lower cloud point, methanol could be as easily used, but is not the fuel of choice because of its origin. Yes, I guess that's right. I was working with ethanol and found cloud point improvement, other interests too with ethanol blends, so I didn't try methanol, but certainly worth trying. That biodiesel had quite a low cloud point anyway, I've no idea what effect it might have on your high-CP muttonfat BD. Please let us know anything you find. Somthing of interest, just thinking about fuels. Not far from where I live, in a little place called Wolsley, there are some relics from a by gone era, huge cement fuel tanks sitting out in the middle of a farmers paddock. Apparently they were used during the second world war to hold fuel reserves...and I think ( if my memory dosn't fail me ) they actually produced the fuel there...ethanol... I presume. I just thought that was interesting. Hopefully a sign of a forthcoming era too, Steven. Best wishes Keith Regards Steven Keith Addison wrote: Hello Camillo, Steve snip,snip 100% mutton fat: Yes, we do offer technology for that feedstock. But sorry, nothing for DIYS IMHO. Try this, good for tallow and lard - if it doesn't handle 100% you might have to mix it with some SVO or WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html Cloud point IS THE NUMBER ONE problem we all have with the cheap feedstocks though. Sorry to push this, but I found adding 10% ethanol lowered cloud point quite a useful amount, maybe more so in this case. It was 95% ethanol, by the way. Best Keith Bye for now, Camillo -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 23:48 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ? G'day Camillo, Thanks for the comments but can I ask the question.by what method/s of analysis do you determine the quality of Bio-diesel? I had a hinch that Glycerine would've been a specific nuber before its removal, and so a fatty acid analysis would've indicated the completeness of a reaction? It is good to know that in European systems you do in fact use raw feedstock. Just to throw another feedstock into the ball park...100%.mutton fat. I think someone on another thread mentioned something about the smell of kitten vomityes...fairly nasty smelling stuffbut produced the best looking fuel I've seen. Only problem...has a cloud point of about 16 degrees! Is it possible to alter the cloud point using surfactants? Have you done any work with regards to the use of tallows Camillo? I'd be interested to hear. Regards Steven Camillo Holecek wrote: If it helps to clarify, here are my two (EURO) cent: ALL commercial BD produced in Europe is made from raw oil, nobody bothers to refine (if they can). The fatty acid composition you mention has little to do with quality. It depends only on the feedstock AND GOES UNCHANGED THROUGH TRANSESTERIFICATION !!! Therefore it does not say anything on the quality of a biodiesel production. Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 15:26 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering G'day Keith, It's Steve Hobbs here. I have only two pieces of reference for my work. 1 - My humble 18 year old Nissan ute that has now travelled 7000 kms on a 40% cold pressed BD dino diesel mix and appears in all respects to be travelling fine (perhaps even better that fine, engine rattle has substantially reduced, cold starts improved, reduced smoke, etc..the ute is due to have injectors removed and inspected by an impartial party) 2 - I've had a sample of coldpressed BD analysised for fatty acid composition, which I guess would give an idea of the quality
Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ?
At a whim some time back we mixed a high ratio of methanol to biodiesel. The result was a completely homogenous fuel some days later. If memory serves, the ratio was 1:1. A bit more than a simple enhancement. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: gjkimlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ? Actually the methanol doesn't mix that well with the biodiesel. IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) does and seems to have a beneficial effect at quite low concentrations 2% even. IPA isn't cheap here, 95% ethanol, even at 10% is attractive since that is what is sold as metholated spirits. Tony clogged up again this morning-looked like mud- really must get across the need to add the biocide.(sorry Kieth) --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Steven G'day Keith Camillo Thanks for the information, leads and suggestions.Can I please ask, what does DIYS IMHO stand forsomething about do it yourself? Do-it-yourselfers, in my humble opinion. I presume when you mention about using an alcohol to lower cloud point, methanol could be as easily used, but is not the fuel of choice because of its origin. Yes, I guess that's right. I was working with ethanol and found cloud point improvement, other interests too with ethanol blends, so I didn't try methanol, but certainly worth trying. That biodiesel had quite a low cloud point anyway, I've no idea what effect it might have on your high-CP muttonfat BD. Please let us know anything you find. Somthing of interest, just thinking about fuels. Not far from where I live, in a little place called Wolsley, there are some relics from a by gone era, huge cement fuel tanks sitting out in the middle of a farmers paddock. Apparently they were used during the second world war to hold fuel reserves...and I think ( if my memory dosn't fail me ) they actually produced the fuel there...ethanol... I presume. I just thought that was interesting. Hopefully a sign of a forthcoming era too, Steven. Best wishes Keith Regards Steven Keith Addison wrote: Hello Camillo, Steve snip,snip 100% mutton fat: Yes, we do offer technology for that feedstock. But sorry, nothing for DIYS IMHO. Try this, good for tallow and lard - if it doesn't handle 100% you might have to mix it with some SVO or WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html Cloud point IS THE NUMBER ONE problem we all have with the cheap feedstocks though. Sorry to push this, but I found adding 10% ethanol lowered cloud point quite a useful amount, maybe more so in this case. It was 95% ethanol, by the way. Best Keith Bye for now, Camillo -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 23:48 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] raw or refined feedstock ? G'day Camillo, Thanks for the comments but can I ask the question.by what method/s of analysis do you determine the quality of Bio-diesel? I had a hinch that Glycerine would've been a specific nuber before its removal, and so a fatty acid analysis would've indicated the completeness of a reaction? It is good to know that in European systems you do in fact use raw feedstock. Just to throw another feedstock into the ball park...100%.mutton fat. I think someone on another thread mentioned something about the smell of kitten vomityes...fairly nasty smelling stuffbut produced the best looking fuel I've seen. Only problem...has a cloud point of about 16 degrees! Is it possible to alter the cloud point using surfactants? Have you done any work with regards to the use of tallows Camillo? I'd be interested to hear. Regards Steven Camillo Holecek wrote: If it helps to clarify, here are my two (EURO) cent: ALL commercial BD produced in Europe is made from raw oil, nobody bothers to refine (if they can). The fatty acid composition you mention has little to do with quality. It depends only on the feedstock AND GOES UNCHANGED THROUGH TRANSESTERIFICATION !!! Therefore it does not say anything on the quality of a biodiesel production. Camillo Holecek Biodiesel Raffinerie GmbH, Austria -Ursprngliche Nachricht- Von: Steven Hobbs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Montag, 17. Juni 2002 15:26 An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: genetic engineering G'day Keith, It's Steve Hobbs here. I have only two pieces of reference for my work. 1 - My humble 18 year old Nissan ute that has now travelled 7000 kms on a 40% cold pressed BD dino diesel mix and appears in all respects to be
RE: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa
What has me confused the most is warming should be accompanied with enhanced evaporation. Yet when I look at tree rings in central Montana the reduced rainfall that began in the early 70's is still with us. As for recording peak temperatures at weather stations reduced humidity should see wider temperature excursions. We should set records for high AND low. In Montana we have seen that very thing. It also occurs to me if evaporation is lower cloud cover may be lower. This is not an automatic given because clouds really reflect the humidity at altitude and the precipitation model is not a simple one. I'm not advocating one theory or another. All I can say with honesty is the more I study this the more confused I feel. Has anyone looked at the methane hydrate link I posted earlier? Pawnfart has an uncanny record of prediction accuracy. Kirk Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 8:49 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa Correct. And as others have taken such great pains to debunk psuedo-science http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00040A72-A95C-1CDA-B4A 8809EC588EEDF why should anyone take equal or greater pains here? At least not since the rebuttal was thorough and principally accurate. I'm afraid Mr. Witmer is not much more than a lost looking for a cause. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Olga Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa There's quite a bit of detailed disussion of Lomborg's book at the Scientific American site below: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0B96-9517-1CDA-B4A 8809EC588EEDFp ageNumber=1catID=4 Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list. kris --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Mr Witmer It's not often that a person has both Gary North and Bjorn Lomborg quoted at him in the same day. If you and them make three straight saws, I'll be fully confident in cutting a dead straight line with my allegedly bent one. No, it's not something akin to a religious confrontation, not by any means. That would simply be the last resort of someone who's been confronted with contrary evidence and been unable to produce any of his own, abandoning his points along the way as they became untenable, pretending they never existed in the first place, and finally being left without a leg to stand on, and hence this retreat into an essentially non-rational arena, hoping to find safety there. It's just cant. As is the stuff below about science. Well, Keith and other friends, what we really have here is something akin to a religious confrontation, because the disagreement involves fundamental differences in worldview and presuppositions. For example, a perusal of reviews of Bjorn Lomborg's The Skeptical Environmentalist: Measuring the Real State of the World ( http://amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521010683/ ) shows that there is virtually no middle ground: everyone either loves it or loathes it. And that has been the case since the modern environmentalist movement began with books like Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, which similarly produces extreme reactions from readers. I have profound disagreements with the entire set of Malthusian, Darwinian, Marxist and Freudian presuppositions that pervade most of modern thought, especially in the sciences. Science is hardly value-free and neutral. The set of presuppositions that any scientist brings to his work will surely affect the outcome of that work. As I see it, modern scientists include lots of brilliant men, and most of them are cutting with a bent saw. It doesn't matter how sharp a bent saw is, it still can't cut straight. The vast majority of scientists study neither the history of scientific thought nor the philosophy of science, and thus fail to recognize that according due to the presuppositions of their modern worldview, there is no way they can explain how science even ought to be possible. To me these scientists seem to be living an incongruity without ever becoming aware of the fact. Be that as it may, I recognize there is a huge body of research purporting to support the conclusion
[biofuel] Global warming b.s.
Today, using much of the same data, No way. Even where the same climate records are used, new ways of crunching them and of correlating them with each other, with other evidence and with huge amounts of new data have produced new and much improved information from the old records. An early 70s mainframe had 16kb of RAM. NASA's new climate-change supercomputer has 1024 CPUs. Other areas have seen similar advances, from ground-level studies to satellites. Hundreds of major institutes all over the world are involved in this work. Phooey. More memory and faster processors just make bad code execute faster. The principles of data reduction are not new, and are not processor-dependent. The rule is still garbage in, garbage out - and the garbage in can be either bad data or flawed concepts embodied in bad data-reduction code, or both. My favorite story concerns the other eco-catastrophe hoodoo, the destruction of the ozone layer. When the first Antarctic surface ultraviolet flux measurements were made during the 1957 International Geophysical Year, the data reduction code was written to arbitrarily exclude data showing a flux above a certain value, which was considered impossible. Readings above that value would thus be indicative of instrument failure or an error in recording the data. When the code was rewritten years later, that bias was not included, and the Antarctic ozone hole suddenly appeared. It had of course been there - seasonally - all along, but you still find that error propagating today, and the sudden appearance of the hole used as proof of rapid decay of the ozone layer - which of COURSE is caused by chlorofluorocarbons, as all right-thinking people know. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sight tube material
I would like to know what a sight tube could be made of for a biodiesel processing tank. Preferrably flexible tubing that could be fixed to barbed fittings on the tank. With thanks, Matt Aleks Kac uses a translucent braided tubing for that. That's with the acid-base method, so it resists both sulphuric and methoxide, though both are at low concentrations. More about plastics and their properties here: Identifying plastics http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#plastics Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America have brought the world's worst drought to Africa
Mr Witmer Kris, I wish someone would pay me for writing! I am in nobody's employ. I never pretended to know it all. That's exactly what you pretend. You're missing out, there are certainly people who'd pay you for this kind of activity. If my failure to be convinced that the rich have stolen the rain and that the blame for starting the [Sahel drought] appears to lie with the developed world makes me a creep and I should get off this list, let me ask you: do you want to shun contact with people who differ from you, or who disagree with you? Not at all. But I will shun people with hurtful prejudices that they defend with thuggish tactics and a lack of integrity. If this is the kind of reaction that I, a mere lay person with a casual interest in the subject, am accorded, then what shall be the fate of the professional scientist who dissents from the current consensus on global warming? If he uses the same thuggish tactics and lack of integrity as you do, he'll probably get the same treatment (though as I said there are good employment opportunities that go with that, so his fate might be rather comfortable, materially at least, if not morally). If he's an honest investigator, he won't suffer any fate, other than probably to change sides as his knowledge improves, as many thousands have done - most were sceptics, now they think otherwise. Speaking of climate, how about maintaining a climate in which dissenters and skeptics aren't pilloried? You have not been pilloried, Mr Witmer. You have been asked to defend your views but have not done so in an even-handed way. You sneer at newspapers and then quote newspapers in your defence. You offer scientific evidence but when it's questioned you dance away like some latter-day Fred Astaire. For a start, what are the references please for the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration study you cited, for the NASA study you cited, for your quote from syndicated columnist Alton Chase, and what were his references? Your implying that there's a less-than-open climate of debate here is simply sleazy. But that's what we've come to expect from you. It's a cheap tactic to infer that it's your views that you're being criticised for rather than the way you present them - your views are welcome, your behaviour isn't. We've seen it here before, I guess we'll see it again. You've talked a right load of half-assed crap here about a lot of things - about Africa and drought, about weather and climate, about the media, about science, about economics and politics, about history, about decomposing trees, about environmentalists, about religion, human nature, the universe and all the fish. But that's just fine, feel free, say whethever you like. What is not just fine is that you demand proof and honest tactics from others, but what we get from you is sneers and jeers, evasions and pretence. Such double standards are far from just fine. At the very least, however distasteful you might find it, you need to maintain contact with people like me. Preaching to the choir converts nobody (assuming you are right), and you might actually learn something of value, either directly or indirectly, through interactions with dissenters and skeptics. Don't give yourself such graces, Mr Witmer, you're neither a dissenter nor a sceptic, you're just a denier. Look at the terms you keep using - you're a dogmatist, whether or not you can see it yourself. There is nothing to be gained from maintaining contact with dogmatists. The alternative is not preaching to the choir, it's holding an open and honest debate. As Todd said, get off it. Or go away. snip -- Christopher Witmer Kris Book wrote: I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, Succinctly put, Kris. Keith Addison would get their own damn list. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America have brought the world's worst drought to Africa
Christopher Witmer wrote: Todd, if I replied that the feeling is mutual I would be a liar. I believe that all human beings are created in the divine image and therefore worthy of respect. But tell me, does your disdain also apply to the researchers and policy advisors who in the 1970s laid a load of crap on us that human industrial activity is bringing on another ice age? And by the same measure would your disdain not also therefore apply to a religion that claimed infallibility and enforced the idea on pain of death that the Earth was the centre of the universe, round which all else revolved? Or would you concede that it's developed a little since then? Made a complete about-face in fact - the capacity to do that merits respect, far more so than sticking to an increasingly untenable position would have done. (Which is what you're doing.) By far the major part of the 70s thesis was that climate change with human industrial cause promised catastrophe. As Hoagy and others have pointed out, this has a longer history than just from the 70s, and it has not changed, simply developed, as the cause has been exacerbated, the evidence mounted, and the tools of the investigators improved. The exact prognosis has changed, but not as much as you think. The difference between an ice age and global warming might seem rather large, but the difference between the two sets of factors which might cause them is rather slight. That's typical of a complex system undergoing chaotic change. That's why I said you don't know much about the subject you're being so opinionated about and suggested you should do some homework before venturing any further. But you knew better, so you still know worse. I'm afraid this all-but-final citadel you've walled yourself up in is just another house of straw. Any activist convinced of global warming should print out and post above his desk the April 28, 1975 Newsweek article The Cooling World, from which I quote: The evidence in support of these predictions [of global cooling, not warming] has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it . . . Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects . . . The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality. Remove your inserted brackets and the statement stands up pretty well today. And what you've inserted is irrelevant. I don't think the ice-age scenario has yet been finally disproved, it's just become more and more unlikely as the evidence has mounted overwhelmingly on the side of warming. The inconsistency you keep pointing to just isn't there. The certitude you accuse the researchers and policy-makers of has never been there, and still isn't. They're cautious and responsible, they don't claim any certainties they can't justify. (You should learn from them.) The global climate is changing, overall temperatures are increasing, human industrial activity is a cause, it will get worse, local effects will vary widely. Beyond that, probabilities, not certainties - but anyone who doesn't take a caution from the fact that as the picture grows ever-clearer the cautious predictions are consistently overturned in favour of more severe consequences should perhaps wake up. Again, local effects will vary widely - and yes, indeed, it will also include some areas growing cooler, albeit temporarily. That shouldn't be any susprise with the most complex system we know of going through chaotic change. So this other pet jeer doesn't have much substance either. And I'm afraid all your nonsense about presuppositions and open-mindedness applies primarily to you, as with most of the mud you've flung. There's a lesson in that too. Appal Energy wrote: Frankly, I've got a great deal more respect for a horse that shits on my shoe than I have for someone who comes in all barrel chested and tries to lay a load of crap on me or anyone else. I'd have to agree with that. Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] black ops
Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list. Yeah, right. If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Better still - accuse him of working for the CIA! Works every time. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Catalyst (metanol/lye) pump
Hello Tomas I was hoping you'd get more responses, but I think you got some input on pumps, not anything else. So I'll try. I have been making biodiesel from used (restaurant) vegoil since 1999 here in Finland for my own use, this has been working very well. Now I am building a little larger manufacturing unit (low cost building, from used parts). I have 2 x 6000 litre batch processing tanks (old cheese tanks with impellers) installed in a old for the purpose rebuilt builded insulated building (warm in the winter). May be some one can help me with information on the following questions which have occured during the build up of the system: - Information of pump manufaturers or systems for transfering the methanol/lye solution from the mixing tank to the bio oil tank (the solution amount aprox 1000 liter/batch) the pumping can be slow. I am using a air pump for transfereing the oil into the bio oil tank but is there any other systems witch can be used. -How much methanol will vaporize from the biodiesel during the mixing and settling time? I believe it's more inclined to vaporise while mixing the methoxide, good case for doing that in a closed vessel. During the process itself, of course it does evaporate, but how much would depend on many variables. Again a good case for a closed system. If using little less methanol will everything be used by the reaction The excess is important, especially with WVO, especially with higher FFA levels. Without sufficient excess you're likely to end up with an uncompleted reaction and di- and mono-glycerides in the product. There's more information here: How much methanol? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html So, better to use excess methanol, try to minimise evaporation, and recover the methanol afterwards. and will there be any methanol vaporazing from the biodiesel. This question as i will mix the catalyst outside and transfere it into the factory (closed house, but ventilated), and for preventing of build up of gas pockets inside which then can be ignite from the electrical lamps or other heat sorce? Why not have an extractor fan leading to the outside? - What exactly (chemical formulas) is the washing water consisting of after the washing of the biodiesel ? It depends on your process, and then on your wash process. With ordinary washing with a single-stage process you'll have a bit of lye (sodium or potassium), a bit of methanol (unless you recover it), some glycs, FFA soap. If you use acid in the wash you'll have a bit of that too, whatever it is. If you use the acid-base process you'll also have a small amount of sulphates. My intetion is to dump it on a compost built for this purpose. The washing water will be filtered through a layer of soil and torf mix with is laying on a sand bed. The sand filter will be some 20-30 meters long. After this the washwater is planned to be infiltrated into the ground in the normal way. Is there anything in the washing water which this kind of filtering is not removing and can be harmfull or affect the environment ? That sounds like more filtering and less composting. Is there an active composting process involved? If not, I'd recommend it. Aerobic composting will certainly deal with all the above chemicals in the wash water safely. However, with large amounts of water, it'll be difficult because you'll constantly risk getting the compost materials too wet and ending up with a nasty anaerobic mess. People might recommend an anaerobic process, for example, biogas, if you have the other materials required, which will give you some process heat energy but leave you with a difficult sludge (which is NOT a good fertiliser as often claimed - it might have a high-ish NPK content, but it destroys the soil life). I think you should ascertain what compounds will be in your wash and seek advice from these people: WASTENOT ! is an international, cross-industry, organic waste processing, composting, and utilization forum for professionals in all aspects and areas of converting organic wastes into a valuable asset in replenishing the world's soils and farmlands. Details here: http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/wastenot.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also the Compost list - send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: subscribe compost Tomas Johnsson http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/compost/ Compost mailing list Also look into the greywater resources. These are useful sites: http://www.greywater.com/ Greywater irrigation - grey waste treatment http://www.oasisdesign.net/books/misinfo.htm Common Greywater Mistakes and Preferred Practices I hope this helps Best wishes Keith Addison -Do some one have links to batch processing hardware manufacturers (hobby and pros). Its nice to see and a lot can be learnt from what other are buildning? Thanks every one for interesting and informative dicussions. bst rgds Tomas Johnsson Yahoo! Groups
Re: [biofuel] Global warming b.s.
You keep coming back with this stuff, eh, Marc? You get debunked, you wait a few months and then try it again as if it never happened. Will you be telling us again soon that nukes are good for you too? Today, using much of the same data, No way. Even where the same climate records are used, new ways of crunching them and of correlating them with each other, with other evidence and with huge amounts of new data have produced new and much improved information from the old records. An early 70s mainframe had 16kb of RAM. NASA's new climate-change supercomputer has 1024 CPUs. Other areas have seen similar advances, from ground-level studies to satellites. Hundreds of major institutes all over the world are involved in this work. Phooey. More memory and faster processors just make bad code execute faster. The principles of data reduction are not new, and are not processor-dependent. The rule is still garbage in, garbage out - and the garbage in can be either bad data or flawed concepts embodied in bad data-reduction code, or both. I think that might apply to what you've just written with your computer (oft-replicated bad code it seems), but it also makes good code execute faster, and also makes it much easier and faster to cross-check and double- and triple-cross-check absolutely everything for errors. With more and more researchers and hundreds upon hundreds of top-level institutes now involved, that has indeed been happening. Anyway, all you've done is sling a bit of mud at a very snazzy supercomputer, which fails to stick, and missed out the other rather important bit: from ground-level studies to satellites. Phooey to you. My favorite story concerns the other eco-catastrophe hoodoo, the destruction of the ozone layer. When the first Antarctic surface ultraviolet flux measurements were made during the 1957 International Geophysical Year, the data reduction code was written to arbitrarily exclude data showing a flux above a certain value, which was considered impossible. Readings above that value would thus be indicative of instrument failure or an error in recording the data. When the code was rewritten years later, that bias was not included, and the Antarctic ozone hole suddenly appeared. It had of course been there - seasonally - all along, but you still find that error propagating today, and the sudden appearance of the hole used as proof of rapid decay of the ozone layer - which of COURSE is caused by chlorofluorocarbons, as all right-thinking people know. But Marc, you didn't finish it. Let me see if I can remember it correctly. It's all a plot fomented by the Third World bloc in the United Nations to implement a global government and deprive us of our democratic rights. Did I get it right? Or was that just global warming? Or both? One gets confused. You guys, really - you postulate this massive worldwide conspiracy with a cast of literally millions, which would require an incredibly powerful and effective organisation to implement it, for which you offer an utterly limp damp squib such as this. Who's the other usual suspect? Researchers after grant money. Pathetic! Tell me, have you spent any time in southern climes recently? Destruction of the ozone layer and the hole over the Antarctic's just a hoodoo, eh? Go tell that to the southern Chileans, tell them it's all just a deliberate computer glitch, their skin cancer's actually been happening all along, they just didn't notice it before. Keith Addison Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] black ops
Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list. Yeah, right. If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Better still - accuse him of working for the CIA! Works every time. Yeah right, Marc - sorry, it's you who's out of whack. If you've managed not to notice that the message has been rather thoroughly refuted, and that as Kris says the messenger has been unable to offer any support at all for his opinions, then your saw's as bent as his is. Clearly that's so, judging from the selective little snippets you excerpt that you think you'll be able to take a successful dig at. Er, you DID used to work for the CIA didn't you? Or was it US military intelligence? Always get fooled by their own propaganda, those guys. Keith Addison Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 06/19/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- June 19, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events NAFTA Commission Calls for Carbon Trading, Renewable Energy DOE Aims to Buy Nearly 5 Percent Green Power by 2005 BLM Finds Renewable Energy Potential in 11 Western States Shell to Develop Multi-Megawatt Fuel Cells for Oil Platforms EPA Launches Energy Star Rating for Hotels Successful Test of Solar-Grade Silicon Production Process Wind Energy, Cogeneration Developer Files for Bankruptcy *Energy Facts and Tips U.S. Struggles to Upgrade its Electrical Transmission System *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- NAFTA Commission Calls for Carbon Trading, Renewable Energy The countries of North America should develop a carbon emissions trading system and promote renewable energy and energy efficiency, according to a report issued on Monday by the Commission for Environmental Cooperation (CEC). The CEC was established by Canada, Mexico and the United States to build cooperation among the partners in implementing the environmental accords included in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The new report, Environmental Challenges and Opportunities of the Evolving North American Electricity Market, was prepared for the CEC by an expert advisory board. The board specifically recommends forming a North American fund to promote the adoption of best available emission control technologies, energy efficiency measures, and energy conservation within the NAFTA countries. It also urges the NAFTA countries to promote the development and use of renewable energy through increased market-based incentives and funding. And in addition to a carbon emissions trading system, the board recommends continent-wide trading systems for emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxides. See the CEC press release at: http://www.cec.org/news/details/index.cfm?ID=2483. See the full report, as well as nine background papers (including one on renewable energy) and comments from the three governments, on the CEC Web site at: http://www.cec.org/pubs_docs/documents/index.cfm?ID=842. The United States is committed to expanding energy trading with its North American neighbors and to strengthening North American energy markets. The North American Energy Working Group, formed to help meet these commitments, issued its first report last week. North America -- The Energy Picture presents an overview of the energy situation on the continent. See the DOE press release, with a link to the full report, at: http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases02/junpr/pr02101.htm. A North American trading system for carbon emissions would represent a significant step toward addressing climate change issues and (as noted in the CEC report) would promote energy efficiency and renewable energy. Although President Bush has rejected the Kyoto Protocol, which would have mandated some form of carbon emissions trading, the United States is taking action at the federal and state levels to address climate change. According to the Pew Center on Global Climate Change, the business community is also doing its part. See the June 11th report, Climate Change Activities in the United States, on the Pew Center's Web site at: http://www.pewclimate.org/projects/us_activities2.cfm. DOE Aims to Buy Nearly 5 Percent Green Power by 2005 DOE intends to draw on renewable energy sources to provide at least 140 million kilowatt-hours of electricity for the department by 2005, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham announced last week. That represents nearly 5 percent of DOE's electricity use, which totaled about 3 billion kilowatt-hours in 1999. DOE will also help people throughout the West buy green power by offering a green tags program through its Western Area Power Administration, which markets federal hydropower in 15 western states. The program will allow Western's customers to support renewable energy projects by buying their environmental attributes, while the actual power from the projects will be sold into the traditional power market. Speaking at the 13th Annual Energy Efficiency Forum at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Secretary Abraham noted that DOE used 43.5 percent less energy in 2002 than it did in 1985, and expects to further increase its energy efficiency by 2 percent per year in the years ahead. Secretary Abraham noted that high-efficiency lighting using solid- state light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, shows significant potential for future energy savings. To advance LED lighting technology, Secretary Abraham announced that
Re: [biofuel] Global warming b.s.
And of course you have reputable references and are willing to forward them for the benefit of all, yes? References which support the claim of seasonal pre-existence and no increased in loss of stratospheric ozone? - Original Message - From: F. Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel List biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 3:07 AM Subject: [biofuel] Global warming b.s. Today, using much of the same data, No way. Even where the same climate records are used, new ways of crunching them and of correlating them with each other, with other evidence and with huge amounts of new data have produced new and much improved information from the old records. An early 70s mainframe had 16kb of RAM. NASA's new climate-change supercomputer has 1024 CPUs. Other areas have seen similar advances, from ground-level studies to satellites. Hundreds of major institutes all over the world are involved in this work. Phooey. More memory and faster processors just make bad code execute faster. The principles of data reduction are not new, and are not processor-dependent. The rule is still garbage in, garbage out - and the garbage in can be either bad data or flawed concepts embodied in bad data-reduction code, or both. My favorite story concerns the other eco-catastrophe hoodoo, the destruction of the ozone layer. When the first Antarctic surface ultraviolet flux measurements were made during the 1957 International Geophysical Year, the data reduction code was written to arbitrarily exclude data showing a flux above a certain value, which was considered impossible. Readings above that value would thus be indicative of instrument failure or an error in recording the data. When the code was rewritten years later, that bias was not included, and the Antarctic ozone hole suddenly appeared. It had of course been there - seasonally - all along, but you still find that error propagating today, and the sudden appearance of the hole used as proof of rapid decay of the ozone layer - which of COURSE is caused by chlorofluorocarbons, as all right-thinking people know. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sight tube material
Matt wrote: I would like to know what a sight tube could be made of for a biodiesel processing tank. Preferrably flexible tubing that could be fixed to barbed fittings on the tank. I'd recommend fairly thin-walled HDPE (high-density polyethylene). It's not as clear as vinyl, but vinyl clouds up after awhile. Don't know about Tygon -- maybe someone else here does. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] black ops
Come on Marc. The guy enters stage left with sweeping generalizations and stereotypes, using his own expertise and opinion as reference, just itching to stir something up, assuming a different attack position after each response to each ill thought remark. Mention the word cult and he attacks for lack of tolerance to his message. Apparently the use of the word cult is mandatorily synonymous with card-carrying membership in any of many mainstream religions, therefore the user must be synonymous with a sheep, greatly lacking in discernment and willing to follow anyone who seems to have a fresh bale of alfalfa. And of course, all scientists are bent saws as a result of their presuppositions, yet his presuppositions and the scientists he chooses to rely upon are perfectly acceptable. That's a double standard if ever there was one. Epistemologically self-conscious? He's not even aware of the major flaws in his own character, as evidenced by his own words. Not much more there than a bag of hot bio-gas. Maybe he'll learn to harness it. Maybe not. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: F. Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel List biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 3:18 AM Subject: [biofuel] black ops Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list. Yeah, right. If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Better still - accuse him of working for the CIA! Works every time. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] black ops
Keith, It was US MI that Marc used to work for. Does that mean missing intelligence? Sure wish I had saved the location of his personal ego...e web site. Todd - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 4:28 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] black ops Well said Keith, this guys numbers are totally out of whack. They are so far from correct, that I suspect that Christoper is a paid propaganda writer. His words sound very much like someone who is involved in the black ops profession. It seems like every list that is set up to do some public good is infected with these folks who just keep causing friction. I sure wish these know-it-all creeps who offer nothing but opinion yet demand proof, would get their own damn list. Yeah, right. If you can't refute the message, attack the messenger. Better still - accuse him of working for the CIA! Works every time. Yeah right, Marc - sorry, it's you who's out of whack. If you've managed not to notice that the message has been rather thoroughly refuted, and that as Kris says the messenger has been unable to offer any support at all for his opinions, then your saw's as bent as his is. Clearly that's so, judging from the selective little snippets you excerpt that you think you'll be able to take a successful dig at. Er, you DID used to work for the CIA didn't you? Or was it US military intelligence? Always get fooled by their own propaganda, those guys. Keith Addison Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Earth Day - was Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa
Keith wrote: Finally, would you say that Earth Day should be abandoned? That it's accomplished nothing useful, not helped to awaken a single person's awareness to environmental issues? Regardless of who subsequently funded and profited from it, AFAIK the oil spill off Santa Barbara in 1969 was the original inspiration for Earth Day, and helped launch the environmental movement - genuine and sound inspiration, no matter what malcontents may since have climbed on the bandwagon. Their unwanted presence now doesn't mean oil spills are good. MH wrote: Even though your asking Kirk I just wanted to slip in a couple different Earth Day views starting with a fair shake [2000] ending with a closer look [1996]. I'm having trouble with the other Q's. But Senator Gaylord Nelson who initiated the legislation designating Earth Day, asserts that every political and economic interest must be involved in this effort including corporations, farmers, religious people, academia, and the general public. Some corporations have great reputations for helping environmental causes, others do not have admirable reputations but getting them involved goes a long way toward changing their practices. As Nelson states My view is that if a business or corporation has an internal program based on improving environmental performance and are complying with it, or seeking conscientiously to comply with it and believe in sustainability, they ought to be able to participate. However, Nelson pointed out in 1999 that we still have a long way to go in order to achieve sustainability. He is concerned that we are degrading and depleting our resource base that he refers to as, consuming our capital. Overpopulation, deforestation, aquifer depletion, air pollution, water pollution, depletion of fisheries, and urbanization is consuming our capital and leading to erosion of our living standards and quality of life (Motavalli,1995, Nelson, 1999). Earth Day 2000 The Celebration of Earth Day: Perspectives on an Environmental Movement Irwin Weintraub Brooklyn College of the City University of New York, USA Read more about it http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj12/weintraub1.html === The key to greenwashing, claims John Stauber, publisher of PR Watch magazine and co-author of Toxic Waste is Good for You, is a good cop/bad cop approach to the environment. Companies take on corporate ad campaigns and high-profile partnerships with mainstream environmental group--while simultaneously lobbying to gut green laws. For many environmental observers, that's a classic example of Astroturf, a term coined by former Texas senator Lloyd Bentsen to describe phony grassroots movements put together by major corporate interests to advance their agendas. The latest example of one of these pro-industry front groups is Concerned Alaskans for Resources and the Environment (CARE), which was set up this year with $175,000 in seed money from the timber industry to advocate extending clear-cut logging permits in the Tongass National Forest of Southeast Alaska. Astroturf groups often hide their real agendas behind warm and fuzzy names like CARE, which distort the meaning of language in a way rarely seen outside a Pentagon press briefing. Similarly named groups include The Environmental Conservation Organization, created by developers opposed to wetlands protection; People For the West, founded by the mining industry to defend the 1972 mining law; and the Global Climate Coalition, an oil and gas industry group established to fight the myth of global warming. Professional Astroturf contractors are now multiplying quickly inside the Washington Beltway. One of the leading practitioners of the craft is Jack Bonner of Bonner and Associates, whose clients include GM, Exxon and U.S. Tobacco. Bonner's biggest success to date (one that earned him a high six-figure fee) involved mobilizing genuine grassroots groups like the Georgia Baptist Convention and Delaware Paralyzed Veterans Association on behalf of the auto industry's fight against tougher fuel-efficiency legislation. BA did this with mass mailing to farmers, senior citizens and others warning that if the standards passed, Detroit would be forced to stop producing vans, church buses and farm trucks. Of course Washington politicians understand that much of the citizen input they receive is really Astroturf. But for politicians about to vote against broadly popular environmental, health, safety or consumer protections, it's a lot easier to say they're responding to a populist uprising among their constituents than to admit they are voting the agenda of their major PAC contributors from the timber, oil, auto or other industries. A Service of E/The Environmental Magazine Perception is Reality Greenwashing Puts the Best Public Face on Corporate Irresponsibility By David Helvarg Volume VII, Number 6 November-December 1996 For
Re: [biofuel] Re: Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America...
Curtis, I suppose it all boils down to what the core inner belief is of the practitioner. For some, the filthy lucre is the root of all evil. For others, who choose not to omit portions of texts, it's the love of the filthy lucre that is the root of all evil. Then I suppose love of self comes in a close second and is supporting cast to the above. Combine the two and you have the discounting of all others to infinite and varying degrees in the pursuit of either self, money or both. Then here comes those God, please damn them naturalists, who tend to believe that any more than what you need is excess and pruriant self-gratification, especially when others have considerably less than what they need to survive. Quickly equity amongst all peoples becomes socialism or communism and a direct affront to old fashioned representative capitalismerrrI mean representative democracy. Thus the politically/theologically dogmatic turf wars begin, where all the rules of common sense are abandoned in pursuit of the alpha ideology. The only thing for absolute certain? The face of humanity doesn't change much from border to border or generation to generation and rarely do the problems get better rather worse. Just a thought from one who is hell bent on sharing the garden with the groundhogs, Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 11:31 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America... Preaching ... ideology converts ... dogma. Just a few years ago, I remember those terms only being reserved for religious conversation. You know, the one with the missionary at your door .. explaining why his church is the true church. While you're quietly trying to say no thanks, excuse me, I already have a church. Never thought it would ever enter the scientific world. Or maybe it should ... I dunno. But either way, I suppose it frightens me a little, to here public policies .. and laws ... sorta all coming down to a contest of inner basic beliefs. That's all ... my $0.02. Curtis --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Preaching to the choir converts nobody... ---snip--- Look at the terms you keep using - you're a dogmatist, whether or not you can see it yourself. There is nothing to be gained from maintaining contact with dogmatists. The alternative is not preaching to the choir, it's holding an open and honest debate. = Join the Revolution! http://thincnet.com/revolution9/downline/vdownline.html?9107 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sight tube material
How about Nylon. One of four chemicaly impervious chemicals. Haven't used it yet but that was my plan. Would appreciate comments if it had been used? Matt wrote: I would like to know what a sight tube could be made of for a biodiesel processing tank. Preferrably flexible tubing that could be fixed to barbed fittings on the tank. _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mathematical Modeling - was Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America have brought the world's worst drought to Africa
As a after thought if North America effects climate change in Africa then it would stand to reason Russia Asia would effect No. America particularly if coal, dust storms and even bombs exploding (creating dust in the upper atmosphere and nuclear winter fallout) looking back last century would tend to cool certain parts of the hemisphere unless there use was reduced - depending on the prevailing winds. Anyway I was recently informed of a three of books listed below, with abbreviated outlines, located at: Mathematics for a Changing Planet* *This work is supported by the US Department of Education, FIPSE and by the National Science Foundation http://www.mth.pdx.edu/~paul/earth/ Earth Algebra, College Algebra with Applications to Environmental Issues Christopher Schaufele, Kennesaw State University Nancy Zumoff, Kennesaw State University Marlene Sims, Kennesaw State University Stanley Sims, Kennesaw State University Description This innovative approach to college algebra focuses on modeling (primarily by curve fitting) real data related to environmental issues such as global warming and the greenhouse effect. Table Of Contents I. CARBON DIOXIDE CONCENTRATION AND GLOBAL WARMING. II. FACTORS CONTRIBUTING TO CARBON DIOXIDE BUILD-UP. III. ACCUMULATION OF CARBON DIOXIDE. IV. CONNECTING CARBON DIOXIDE, PEOPLE AND MONEY. V. ALTERNATE ENERGY AND NEW TRENDS: REDUCING CARBON DIOXIDE EMISSION. http://www.aw.com/catalog/academic/product/1,4096,0321015975,00.html Earth Angles, Precalculus: Mathematics with Applications to Environmental Issues, Preview Edition Nancy Zumoff Description Engrossing Precalculus for an environmentally-conscious generation of students. This exciting new precalculus text presents algebraic concepts in the context of contemporary environmental issues. Zumoff and Schaufele have integrated NCTM methodology and guidelines with the relevance of pertinent global issues. Earth Angles will engross students with problems presenting the reality of our earth's condition, while preparing them for a successful transition into calculus. Table Of Contents 2. U.S. Water Usage and Population. 3. Per Capita Water Use. 4. Constant Flow Rivers. 7. Snow-Fed Rivers: Temperature and Precipitation. 8. Snow Fed Rivers: Streamflow. 9. The Price Power. Sulfur Dioxide Emission. Acid Rain. 10. Arsenic. http://www.aw.com/catalog/academic/product/1,4096,0321043235,00.html Earth Studies: Applied Calculus, Kendall/Hunt Publishing Inc(2000). By Nancy Zumoff, Christopher Schaufele, KENNESAW STATE UNIVERSITY and M. Paul Latiolais, PORTLAND STATE UNIVERSITY Applied calculus presented in the context of Environmental issues, including population, food production, energy production and consumption and air quality. Table of Contents 1. Population Models 3. What's for Dinner. 4. Surplus Grain and the Integral. 5. The World's Coal and Petroleum Supplies 6. Drilling for Dollars 7. Lost in the Ozone 8. The Village of Mathopolis http://www.mth.pdx.edu/~paul/earth/ES-table.html Have any of you taken a peek at either of these or others related to this topic? If so would ya mind voicing your opinion and/or listing them. ` Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Global warming b.s.
I thought that proving a theory, one way or the other made it a fact. Many theories are considered mainstream fact, but wanting proof for something not proven, for an argument, is like cutting on both sides of a tree, it only makes sense if it being held from the top. If that statement doesn't confuse you , I'll think of something else. Have a good one. F. Marc de Piolenc wrote: Today, using much of the same data, No way. Even where the same climate records are used, new ways of crunching them and of correlating them with each other, with other evidence and with huge amounts of new data have produced new and much improved information from the old records. An early 70s mainframe had 16kb of RAM. NASA's new climate-change supercomputer has 1024 CPUs. Other areas have seen similar advances, from ground-level studies to satellites. Hundreds of major institutes all over the world are involved in this work. Phooey. More memory and faster processors just make bad code execute faster. The principles of data reduction are not new, and are not processor-dependent. The rule is still garbage in, garbage out - and the garbage in can be either bad data or flawed concepts embodied in bad data-reduction code, or both. My favorite story concerns the other eco-catastrophe hoodoo, the destruction of the ozone layer. When the first Antarctic surface ultraviolet flux measurements were made during the 1957 International Geophysical Year, the data reduction code was written to arbitrarily exclude data showing a flux above a certain value, which was considered impossible. Readings above that value would thus be indicative of instrument failure or an error in recording the data. When the code was rewritten years later, that bias was not included, and the Antarctic ozone hole suddenly appeared. It had of course been there - seasonally - all along, but you still find that error propagating today, and the sudden appearance of the hole used as proof of rapid decay of the ozone layer - which of COURSE is caused by chlorofluorocarbons, as all right-thinking people know. Marc de Piolenc Iligan, Philippines [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mathematical Modeling - was Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America have brought the world's worst drought to Africa
Have any of you taken a peek at either of these or others related to this topic? If so would ya mind voicing your opinion and/or listing them. Why Hoagy...I'm surprised. Didn't you know that these texts are all part of a bigger communist plot to take over all homelands and forever turn them back over to free spirited hippie scum and Pantheistic wood nymphs? Chuckle... Chuckle..Chuckle...! Seriously, you would be surprised how converting a recycled aluminum can into a btu equivalent on a chalkboard and then comparing that to x amount of gasoline can peak a campus insurrection. It's really tough on the old fart school board establishments when all the kids know right from wrong better than they do. It really gets intense when you tie the btus to visuals of where the ore is mined and the state of many of the peoples in the regions. Just what is it that children understand that adults so easily forget or disregard? Todd Swearingen Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sight tube material
Eric Ruttan wrote: How about Nylon. One of four chemicaly impervious chemicals. What are the other three, Eric? Used to use neoprene tubing for such things, long ago - fuel, chemicals, never found anything that rotted it. Neoprene polychloroprene. At least that's what we called it and what it was sold as, tough transparent tubing. Keith Haven't used it yet but that was my plan. Would appreciate comments if it had been used? Matt wrote: I would like to know what a sight tube could be made of for a biodiesel processing tank. Preferrably flexible tubing that could be fixed to barbed fittings on the tank. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America...
Preaching ... ideology converts ... dogma. Just a few years ago, I remember those terms only being reserved for religious conversation. You know, the one with the missionary at your door .. explaining why his church is the true church. While you're quietly trying to say no thanks, excuse me, I already have a church. Never thought it would ever enter the scientific world. Or maybe it should ... I dunno. But either way, I suppose it frightens me a little, to here public policies .. and laws ... sorta all coming down to a contest of inner basic beliefs. That's all ... my $0.02. Curtis --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Preaching to the choir converts nobody... No I didn't, Mr Witmer wrote that. This is Mr Witmer's terminology, not mine. You wrote: public policies .. and laws ... sorta all coming down to a contest of inner basic beliefs. That's where Mr Witmer has retreated to, and where I will not follow him, nor others. So the debate is not quite as you choose to see it. ---snip--- Look at the terms you keep using - you're a dogmatist, whether or not you can see it yourself. There is nothing to be gained from maintaining contact with dogmatists. The alternative is not preaching to the choir, it's holding an open and honest debate. This is saying what you're saying - no matter how much Mr Witmer might wish it to be, it is not a 'contest of inner basic beliefs.' Maybe you didn't notice, but we keep asking him for evidence to support his views, and we keep getting dogma in return. Please don't ascribe this one-sided view to both sides of the argument. Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Earth Day - was Revealed: how the smoke stacks of America havebrought the world's worst drought to Africa
Hi Hoagy Glad you posted some of the Stauber interview - good stuff. Here's a bit more from him, concerning the so-called leaders of the environmental movement and more: http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1997Q4/ PR Watch, vol. 4, no. 4: Flack Attack Anyway, Stauber and Rampton's PR Watch doesn't seem to rate Earth Day as Astroturf, though a lot of Astroturf undoubtedly tries to board the wagon, possibly with some success. On the other hand, quite a lot of Astroturf has been founded in response to Earth Day, to oppose it, which I guess speaks well for it. I think if there were any serious stink about Earth Day, Stauber and Rampton would be right on top of it. Trust us, we're experts, sure, but I do trust those two, they're damned good, they do excellent work. I'll stick with my point you've quoted below, I think it stands. Keith wrote: Finally, would you say that Earth Day should be abandoned? That it's accomplished nothing useful, not helped to awaken a single person's awareness to environmental issues? Regardless of who subsequently funded and profited from it, AFAIK the oil spill off Santa Barbara in 1969 was the original inspiration for Earth Day, and helped launch the environmental movement - genuine and sound inspiration, no matter what malcontents may since have climbed on the bandwagon. Their unwanted presence now doesn't mean oil spills are good. By the same token, I keep having to eject and/or bar various trolls and assorted malcontents from the Biofuel list, far more than anyone knows. I'm really surprised that such an apparently innocuous subject as biofuels should attract such a constant stream of weirdos, but it does - trolls, spinners, twisters, imposters, thieves, charlatans,frauds, spammers, liars and cheats, sheer psychopaths, you'd be amazed. Well, it may attract them, for whatever reason, but they don't characterise it, do they? Nor do they discredit the worth and value of biofuels and the biofuels issue. Even with most of the ethanol in the US being made by ADM, and Big Soy with a deadly grip on biodiesel development, that still holds good. Kirk used Earth Day as an example, and it is one. To broaden it out again, considering the immense power and resources of those it opposes, and their lack of any other guiding principle than the bottom line, it was obvious right from the start that the environment movement would be compromised, bought off, infiltrated by fifth-columnists, emasculated wherever possible, have its share of turncoats and wolves in sheep's clothing. All of those things have happened and continue to happen, but still, that does not discredit the movement as a whole, and certainly not the issues it stands for. It's not even their fault, really - it's our fault, the people, who've allowed it to happen with our lack of vigilance. Would that there were more Staubers and Ramptons. Business and corporate involvement in environmental issues is currently a most pertinent subject, considering the upcoming Earth Summit in Johannesburg. Expect a hijacking: http://journeytoforever.org/fyi_previous5.html#140202 Greenwash + 10 -- The UN's Global Compact, Corporate Accountability and the Johannesburg Earth Summit Regards Keith MH wrote: Even though your asking Kirk I just wanted to slip in a couple different Earth Day views starting with a fair shake [2000] ending with a closer look [1996]. I'm having trouble with the other Q's. But Senator Gaylord Nelson who initiated the legislation designating Earth Day, asserts that every political and economic interest must be involved in this effort including corporations, farmers, religious people, academia, and the general public. Some corporations have great reputations for helping environmental causes, others do not have admirable reputations but getting them involved goes a long way toward changing their practices. As Nelson states My view is that if a business or corporation has an internal program based on improving environmental performance and are complying with it, or seeking conscientiously to comply with it and believe in sustainability, they ought to be able to participate. However, Nelson pointed out in 1999 that we still have a long way to go in order to achieve sustainability. He is concerned that we are degrading and depleting our resource base that he refers to as, consuming our capital. Overpopulation, deforestation, aquifer depletion, air pollution, water pollution, depletion of fisheries, and urbanization is consuming our capital and leading to erosion of our living standards and quality of life (Motavalli,1995, Nelson, 1999). Earth Day 2000 The Celebration of Earth Day: Perspectives on an Environmental Movement Irwin Weintraub Brooklyn College of the City University of New York, USA Read more about it http://egj.lib.uidaho.edu/egj12/weintraub1.html === The key to greenwashing, claims John Stauber, publisher of PR Watch
[biofuel] South Dakota Voters To Decide On Industrial Hemp
http://www.globalhemp.com/News/2002/June/sd_voters_to_decide.shtm l Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
