Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
On Jan 6, 2005, at 8:08 AM, ken murphy wrote: It was reported in the news papers a couple of years ago that a local company changed to using vegetable oil as a fuel in all their large trucks. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] worth seeing
Takes a little bit to load but worth the wait. Kirk We Are One http://www.hiddengifts.org/we_are_one/ - Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,...]
Cornell's defrees hydraulics lab who has been helping me out. Evan wrote: John, I think you said it just right. I'll ask around to verify what I told you, but I still maintain that your pumps will be as good as impellers. Both are attached to motors, and transfer the energy into fluid motion. Once a fluid is put in motion, mixing happens. Just move the fluid, by any means available. Any luck getting the 3-phase motors started with a one-phase motor? Evan At 01:12 PM 1/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: Evan, I am involved in a discussion of mixing things on the biofuel list, I have attached the whole thread, someone suggested that pump mixing would be insufficient and then we got into a whole discussion about the details in which I did my best to sum up what you told me the other afternoon when I came in and played with pumps and drew things on chalkboards. I would really appreciate it if you would look over this and tell me what you think and add comments, corrections and suggestions where appropriate. thanks, John X-Account-Key: account1 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from mx.lightlink.com (pop.lightlink.com [205.232.34.15]) by adore.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00526 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from spam2.lightlink.com (spam2.lightlink.com [205.232.89.54]) by mx.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28477 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:48 -0500 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1105033787-16992-600-0 X-Barracuda-URL: http://spam2.lightlink.com:80/cgi-bin/mark.cgi Received: from smtp0.lightlink.com (mail0.lightlink.com [205.232.89.50]) by spam2.lightlink.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 80843200D92F for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from lightlink.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by smtp0.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) id MAA04435 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:46 -0500 Received: from nnytech.net (mail.converselabs.com [64.19.75.36]) by smtp0.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04385 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 1263 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2005 17:28:31 - Received: from localhost (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2005 17:28:31 - Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 31416 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2005 17:09:23 - Received: from emerald.lightlink.com (205.232.34.14) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2005 17:09:23 - Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rp1.lightlink.com [207.127.233.34]) by emerald.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13501 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:09:20 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:09:19 -0500 From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,... Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,... References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:28:28 + X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: biofuel.wwia.org List-Unsubscribe: http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel List-Post: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Spam Firewall at lightlink.com X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=3.5 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=9.0 KILL_LEVEL=1000.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 2.64, rules version 2.1.783 Rule breakdown belowptsrule name description -- --- 0.00 FORGED_RCVD_HELO Received: contains a forged HELO Kenneth, basically the variables are the viscosity of the fluid, the size and shape of the container, the power output of the pumps, the size and shape of the jets. I don't really understand all of this but essentially you are trying to make turbulence in the fluid which is what actually performs the mixing. I only spent an afternoon there, I get the impression you would have to spend years there to really
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha
muchas gracias F. - Original Message - From: FRANCISCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Francisco 1) I am please to share with you my views about Jatropha after a detailed literature research during the last 2 years. We are about to start a work to domesticate Jatropha here in Brasil. 2) Those are the figures I am using for a local project using Jatropha curcas L. *Planting*: 2 a 3 kg of _*seeds *_per hectare.(Approx. 1.300 seeds / Kg.). Assume 50% of seed will not generate healthy plants.** *Potential harvesting ( _seeds_ not fruit ) * *1¼ year*130 kg/ha** *2¼ *520 kg/ ha *3¼*1300 kg/ha *4¼*2600 kg/ha *5¼*4160 kg/ha *6¼ till 30¼ year*6300 kg/ha *Harvesting :* 1.300 a 2.500 kg _*seeds*_ per hectare third year and on *Productivity harvesting ( man hour ):* 2 kg a 3 kg seeds/ men hour there are no mechanical equipment for jatropha yet. Assume will maintain plant height at 2m. at the most. *Oil content*: 5kg a 5,5 kg of seed has 1,25 litres a 1,48 liters of oil. ( 25% up to 35% content of oil )To run calculations be conservative like i am as of now. There are no scientific hard data on this . First large experiment is being conduct by Daimler Benz at Gujarat, India .So far so good. *__**__**__*Oil pressing efficiency: *__* 80 % o the potential oil (1,0 liters a 1,19 liters per hour ) (semi-industrial) Cleaning efficiency: about 90 % Transesterification: about 97% efficient You have to dry the fruit in the shadow. Peel it clean the seed and than press it properly. *Very important to press it properly and degum the pure oil in order to get a good biodiesel at the end. There are few critical tricks.* Pls note my numbers are *conservative not pessimistic not optimistic*. I contacted Africa, Germany ( Gtz, Reinhard at Hoekeheim University, etc. ) India ( Dr. Satish, etc. ) and Nicaragua and came up with above figures. Actual numbers will be better than those prior indicated so you can run a sensitivity for a 10% increase on final number of biodiesel.. Actual numbers will be in this range Saludos y Feliz ao a todos Chico (Francisco Ramos from Rio de Janeiro and Santiago de Compostela ) francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Andrew Lowe: Many thanks, Francisco. - Original Message - From: Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Crystal: could you please tell me the Jatropha nuts oil production in litres/hect or gallon/acre?. Tks, Francisco. Have a look on Journey to Forever, http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html. The values here correspond with values I've seen from a few other sources. Regards, Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 3/01/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset
Hello Nancy, Would you happen to have a link for these cars? Even the name of the which railroad would be great. I have no use for one, but my father will go absolutely nuts if I can locate a couple for him. Thanks! AntiFossil Mike Krafka Minnesota USA * If you think you are too small to make a difference try sleeping with a mosquito. Dalai Lama * Experience is the comb that nature gives us when we are bald. Belgian proverb * - Original Message - From: Nancy Canning To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset You can purchase from the railroad old insulated refrigerated box cars for same purpose. They cost about $5000. weigh a ton, have to be moved with bulldozer, D6 or D7 cat works. All metal, which is nice because you can weld directly to it, interior is lined in wood. I've converted one to workshop space, but easily could be living. You just need a cutting torch to add plumbing or wiring. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ I found two in the Southwest, EL Paso, and Albuquerque area, however, auctions come up with the railroad material and supplies around the US. Check the RR freight yards around the country. Contact the major RR lines and ask for list of agents they use for scrap metal cars, the RR themselves don't handle sales that I know of. Cars are sold when no longer usable or cost to much to repair carriages, but that doesn't effect storage shed usage, or living space. The large scrap metal dealers tend to purchase, then salvage what is usable, so they might be a source as well. Being in Minnesota, the main RR yards should have some local leads, or contacts for the various companies. One drawback to the refrigerator cars is that they fumigate them, so they stink for a while. Scrubbed down, with high pressure washer then aired out seemed to work. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel processor
Phillip; I am curious as to what you are referring to as an orphan gas station? Under ground tanks where what and laws concerning them are, what shut down many service stations in the USA. I would think to re-open those stations to retail biofuels the storage will have to be brought up to standards as well as any pollution found cleaned up as well. Thanks Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] E Pluribus Unum Motto of the USA since 1776 - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel processor : Dave - : : What size would you recommend for a typical gas : station/C-store in the United States? : : There are orphan gas stations that can be potentially : converted into a biodiesel/clean fuel gas : stationmaybe a neighborhood gas station of the : future will have a WVO biorefiner in back of the : station and pumps in front...like a neighborhood : dairy. : : Most refernces state that the average medium sized gas : station sells about 40,000 to 80,000 gallons per month : of traditional fuels to remain profitable viable and : pay the bills. : : Interested in gathering more research. : : Phillip Wolfe : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel processor
Doug, Good points. There are some gas stations that are up to standard in which the owner-operators want to sell or spin off - in ones and two...or in bunches. I was thinking of a neighborhood gas station in which the owner is retiring and or closed and up to par...just looking for another owner. Yes, you are correct that the UST (underground storage tanks) were quite an issue with leakage, not up to environmental guidelines, etc. But there are many good stations. On a much larger scale, a major petroleum company just spun off over 1,000 gas stations to another company or groups of medium companies. Thanks for pointing out your correct observations. --- Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phillip; I am curious as to what you are referring to as an orphan gas station? Under ground tanks where what and laws concerning them are, what shut down many service stations in the USA. I would think to re-open those stations to retail biofuels the storage will have to be brought up to standards as well as any pollution found cleaned up as well. Thanks Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] E Pluribus Unum Motto of the USA since 1776 - Original Message - From: Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel processor : Dave - : : What size would you recommend for a typical gas : station/C-store in the United States? : : There are orphan gas stations that can be potentially : converted into a biodiesel/clean fuel gas : stationmaybe a neighborhood gas station of the : future will have a WVO biorefiner in back of the : station and pumps in front...like a neighborhood : dairy. : : Most refernces state that the average medium sized gas : station sells about 40,000 to 80,000 gallons per month : of traditional fuels to remain profitable viable and : pay the bills. : : Interested in gathering more research. : : Phillip Wolfe : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
Landscaping materials, ie; decomposing granite. He runs dump trucks which are very similar to cement trucks. --- Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was that a cement company? On Jan 6, 2005, at 8:08 AM, ken murphy wrote: It was reported in the news papers a couple of years ago that a local company changed to using vegetable oil as a fuel in all their large trucks. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
SVO if not preheated is unlikely to burn completely and it might coke the valves, also it is higher viscosity so it may damage the injector pump as it has to push harder. Is this true of all Straight Vegetable Oils? Is it a particular kind of vegetable oil that SVO is generally referring to? What are the viscosities of various sources? Can they be mixed to make an SVO that can be used without any conversion? some places say you get a slight increase in power and range with biodiesel some people say it is a decrease, I don't know which to believe but most people seem to say that whatever change there is is small (usually people say 5%). I don't know what people say with regards to SVO. Could this be due to differences in environmental/climatic factors, such as the ambient temperature of the air? Sorry if these seem like lame questions. Thanks, erika - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel Ken, I am a newbie myself but I will take a crack at these as I have done lots of reading ken murphy wrote: He said there was no conversion of any sort required on his trucks. He simply began fueling them with VO. although this may work (especially in warmer climates) it seems to be generally regarded as a bad idea because although this may work (especially in warmer climates) it seems to be generally regarded as a bad idea because SVO if not preheated is unlikely to burn completely and it might coke the valves, also it is higher viscosity so it may damage the injector pump as it has to push harder. So after reading the posts on this list for a week or two now, I have a few questions: 1. Does Bio diesel pollute less than petro-diesel? Does VO pollute less than bio-diesel? both biodiesel and SVO (or straight vegetable oil) pollute significantly less than petrol-diesel. biodiesel seems to produce an increase in NOx emissions if you don't retard the injection timing, this increase does not seem to be present in SVO fueled engines. it is important to note that in order to run SVO you need to preheat the oil (I think it is to 170 degrees F) which is usually accomplished by running the engine on regular diesel (or biodiesel) for a time and circulating the engine coolant through the SVO tank, after it comes up to temp you switch over, this means that if you are running on petrol (or dino as people here like to call it) then you are polluting at an increased rate during the preheat cycle. depending on your climate, your vehicle and your system that could be for a long time. here in the frozen northeast the guy who runs liquidsolar (www.liquidsolar.com) reports to me that he almost never gets to switch over in the winter on trips under 10-15 miles but he has a big tank for the SVO so that might have something to do with it. 2. What are the advantages of using bio-diesel over simple vegetable oil? biodiesel is more like regular diesel so you just put it in your tank and you can mix it in any proportion with petrol-diesel so if you are on the road with no access to your refinery you can just pump in the dirty stuff. it generally requires no change to the vehicle. some people retard their injection timing to reduce NOx emissions and some people have found that some modifications to the vehicle are necessary for cold weather operations (if it is cold enough you might need to modify to run on regular diesel anyway). 3. Regarding energy equivalancy, will a vehicle using bio-diesel or vegetable oil achieve range and power comparable to using petro-diesel? some places say you get a slight increase in power and range with biodiesel some people say it is a decrease, I don't know which to believe but most people seem to say that whatever change there is is small (usually people say 5%). I don't know what people say with regards to SVO. Thanks for your help. Kemp Farnsworth Mesa, Arizona USA __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Earth Quake Prediction
Movement can occur any time you add or delete oil or water. The deep well injection project at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, near Denver, in the 1960s is a good example. While the frequency of the earthquakes at RMA somewhat matched the frequency of pumping, the magnitude of the associated earhtquakes did not. The project, started in 1962, produced magnitudes 5.3 and 5.1 by late 1967 (see Kirkham Rogers, Colorado Geological Survey Bulletin 43). Everything has multiple effects. Even inaction is an action. Complex world. Kirk Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, Yes, I will look. People of various discplines and backgrounds will notice convergent things. For example, will global warming cause a reciprocal action? (how is that for a hot potato(e) downward or upward. Also, can updtake of large reserves of traditional liquid crude petroleum have causal affect upon land movements - nature abhors a vacuum. (purely hypothetical) Thanks.. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Glad you liked it. Another resource you might like is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/ There is a link to a free Deja browser plugin there and the Deja collection is at (click for a list of titles) http://fax.libs.uga.edu/dbooks.html A book in Deja format that I found interesting is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/BL313xS648/ The Evolution of the Dragon. If memory serves he describes some unusual cloud behaviour that I would attribute to electrostatic forces. The quake website advocates heat as the mover and certainly infrared radiation will influence water vapor but piezoelectric effect could be the prime force. Rocks under stress can generate enourmous stress and that is current earthquake causality theory isn't it? Or perhaps it is both but I favor electrostatic. http://fax.libs.uga.edu/GN751xD685/ describes a rather enormous geological event. Some dispute his reasoning but the evidence he cites is fascinating of itself. All the best Kirk Phillip Wolfe wrote: I read the complete website and worth reading at least for its interesting point of view. Maybe the birds, bees, and animals detect obvious signs in Mother Nature that us humans are unwilling to see without solid empirical evidence. The author proposed that quakes can be predicated by observating cloud formations. The clouds are not real clouds but localized regional vapour formations from huge fricitional forces which heat up local air and land termperatures which then lears to vapour cloud formations over the impending quake area... Very interesting. The author states: ...The external forces cause(Refer to Fig. 15 and 16[4] ) between neighboring particles of rock to move against each other, and the resulting friction generates heat. The amount of heat can be surprisingly large. Scientific analysis of frictional melt and recrystallization of fault-rock indicates that temperatures from 300 - 1500o C can be generated along fault lines[5-8]. Anecdotal evidence of extreme heat is also plentiful. For example, very hot erupting matter was reported to have burned a man during the 7.8 Tangshan, China earthquake in 1976 [9]. Before the 7.3 Haicheng, China earthquake in1975, part of the ice in a shade of a frozen reservoir melted during a very cold winter [10]. Temperatures of 250~ 350o C were directly measured in steam and groundwater before three big earthquakes in Mexico [11]... unquote Thanks Kirk. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Interesting Earth Quake Prediction http://quake.exit.com/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Earth Quake Prediction and Deep Well Injection Correlation
Wow. Kirk - that was a surprising revalation - the fact that the Deep Well Injection Project was correlated to quake activity in its local vicinity. How did you know about that? Was that a petroleum project? I will check your citations. Thanks. --- Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Movement can occur any time you add or delete oil or water. The deep well injection project at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, near Denver, in the 1960s is a good example. While the frequency of the earthquakes at RMA somewhat matched the frequency of pumping, the magnitude of the associated earhtquakes did not. The project, started in 1962, produced magnitudes 5.3 and 5.1 by late 1967 (see Kirkham Rogers, Colorado Geological Survey Bulletin 43). Everything has multiple effects. Even inaction is an action. Complex world. Kirk Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, Yes, I will look. People of various discplines and backgrounds will notice convergent things. For example, will global warming cause a reciprocal action? (how is that for a hot potato(e) downward or upward. Also, can updtake of large reserves of traditional liquid crude petroleum have causal affect upon land movements - nature abhors a vacuum. (purely hypothetical) Thanks.. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Glad you liked it. Another resource you might like is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/ There is a link to a free Deja browser plugin there and the Deja collection is at (click for a list of titles) http://fax.libs.uga.edu/dbooks.html A book in Deja format that I found interesting is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/BL313xS648/ The Evolution of the Dragon. If memory serves he describes some unusual cloud behaviour that I would attribute to electrostatic forces. The quake website advocates heat as the mover and certainly infrared radiation will influence water vapor but piezoelectric effect could be the prime force. Rocks under stress can generate enourmous stress and that is current earthquake causality theory isn't it? Or perhaps it is both but I favor electrostatic. http://fax.libs.uga.edu/GN751xD685/ describes a rather enormous geological event. Some dispute his reasoning but the evidence he cites is fascinating of itself. All the best Kirk Phillip Wolfe wrote: I read the complete website and worth reading at least for its interesting point of view. Maybe the birds, bees, and animals detect obvious signs in Mother Nature that us humans are unwilling to see without solid empirical evidence. The author proposed that quakes can be predicated by observating cloud formations. The clouds are not real clouds but localized regional vapour formations from huge fricitional forces which heat up local air and land termperatures which then lears to vapour cloud formations over the impending quake area... Very interesting. The author states: ...The external forces cause(Refer to Fig. 15 and 16[4] ) between neighboring particles of rock to move against each other, and the resulting friction generates heat. The amount of heat can be surprisingly large. Scientific analysis of frictional melt and recrystallization of fault-rock indicates that temperatures from 300 - 1500o C can be generated along fault lines[5-8]. Anecdotal evidence of extreme heat is also plentiful. For example, very hot erupting matter was reported to have burned a man during the 7.8 Tangshan, China earthquake in 1976 [9]. Before the 7.3 Haicheng, China earthquake in1975, part of the ice in a shade of a frozen reservoir melted during a very cold winter [10]. Temperatures of 250~ 350o C were directly measured in steam and groundwater before three big earthquakes in Mexico [11]... unquote Thanks Kirk. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Interesting Earth Quake Prediction http://quake.exit.com/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from
Re: [Biofuel] Earth Quake Prediction and Deep Well Injection Correlation
Since you like to read here is some food for thought http://www.nae.edu/nae/bridgecom.nsf/weblinks/NAEW-4NHMDX?OpenDocument More info on quakes and wells http://geosurvey.state.co.us/pubs/rocktalk/rtv5n2.pdf This search string is a good one to Google - State of Stress in the Earth's Crust Kirk Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow. Kirk - that was a surprising revalation - the fact that the Deep Well Injection Project was correlated to quake activity in its local vicinity. How did you know about that? Was that a petroleum project? I will check your citations. Thanks. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Movement can occur any time you add or delete oil or water. The deep well injection project at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, near Denver, in the 1960s is a good example. While the frequency of the earthquakes at RMA somewhat matched the frequency of pumping, the magnitude of the associated earhtquakes did not. The project, started in 1962, produced magnitudes 5.3 and 5.1 by late 1967 (see Kirkham Rogers, Colorado Geological Survey Bulletin 43). Everything has multiple effects. Even inaction is an action. Complex world. Kirk Phillip Wolfe wrote: Kirk, Yes, I will look. People of various discplines and backgrounds will notice convergent things. For example, will global warming cause a reciprocal action? (how is that for a hot potato(e) downward or upward. Also, can updtake of large reserves of traditional liquid crude petroleum have causal affect upon land movements - nature abhors a vacuum. (purely hypothetical) Thanks.. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Glad you liked it. Another resource you might like is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/ There is a link to a free Deja browser plugin there and the Deja collection is at (click for a list of titles) http://fax.libs.uga.edu/dbooks.html A book in Deja format that I found interesting is http://fax.libs.uga.edu/BL313xS648/ The Evolution of the Dragon. If memory serves he describes some unusual cloud behaviour that I would attribute to electrostatic forces. The quake website advocates heat as the mover and certainly infrared radiation will influence water vapor but piezoelectric effect could be the prime force. Rocks under stress can generate enourmous stress and that is current earthquake causality theory isn't it? Or perhaps it is both but I favor electrostatic. http://fax.libs.uga.edu/GN751xD685/ describes a rather enormous geological event. Some dispute his reasoning but the evidence he cites is fascinating of itself. All the best Kirk Phillip Wolfe wrote: I read the complete website and worth reading at least for its interesting point of view. Maybe the birds, bees, and animals detect obvious signs in Mother Nature that us humans are unwilling to see without solid empirical evidence. The author proposed that quakes can be predicated by observating cloud formations. The clouds are not real clouds but localized regional vapour formations from huge fricitional forces which heat up local air and land termperatures which then lears to vapour cloud formations over the impending quake area... Very interesting. The author states: ...The external forces cause(Refer to Fig. 15 and 16[4] ) between neighboring particles of rock to move against each other, and the resulting friction generates heat. The amount of heat can be surprisingly large. Scientific analysis of frictional melt and recrystallization of fault-rock indicates that temperatures from 300 - 1500o C can be generated along fault lines[5-8]. Anecdotal evidence of extreme heat is also plentiful. For example, very hot erupting matter was reported to have burned a man during the 7.8 Tangshan, China earthquake in 1976 [9]. Before the 7.3 Haicheng, China earthquake in1975, part of the ice in a shade of a frozen reservoir melted during a very cold winter [10]. Temperatures of 250~ 350o C were directly measured in steam and groundwater before three big earthquakes in Mexico [11]... unquote Thanks Kirk. --- Kirk McLoren wrote: Interesting Earth Quake Prediction http://quake.exit.com/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts
Hi, Consider Habitat for Humanity International. http://www.habitat.org/ Derek Hargis -- Original message -- From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a volunteer for the local ARC chapter I'm unaware of any RC programs that plan to use the skills mentioned. I would suggest first contacting the peace corps http://www.peacecorps.gov/ . Many missionary groups may put his skills to use. In the event one has no particular faith they may contact the local ministerial alliance or Salvation Army for more information. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] E Pluribus Unum Motto of the USA since 1776 - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts : Red Cross : Luc : - Original Message - : From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:06 PM : Subject: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts : : : My father is in the construction trade and he asked me last night who he : might ask if his services would be useful in rebuilding things in : tsunami devastated areas, I don't really have those kinds of contacts : but I imagine someone on this list might. does anyone know who he would : contact to offer to go over there and help rebuild? : : John Guttridge ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] The Straight Up on Biodiesel - Can you dig it?!
Have you looked at Mike Pelly's set up ? If you are able to work stainless you could consider something along his lilnes: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor11.html is the path. Luc - Original Message - From: Dan Wilde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Straight Up on Biodiesel - Can you dig it?! Hello everyone, I am new to this, I am going to make a Biodiesel unit. My question is,out of all the ideas out there, what unit is giving the cleanest fuel and is there a set of plans I may buy on this unit.I was planning to make it out of stainless steel, and make it right the first time. Many thanks Dan Wilde, Albuquerque,NM Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a great biode definition from a real thinker on another bioblog: Straight Up Eric over at Schoebiz posted an easy-to-understand piece on the composition of biodiesel: http://www.schoebiz.com/archives/80.php I guess they use the word bio because the ingredients come from biological sources. The ingredients are methanol, lye, and fat. You can make this stuff out of waste vegetable oil (WVO) from a Burger King. Fat is just a series of triglycerides. A triglyceride is comprised of three (tri) fatty acid chains and one glycerine molecule. When you mix the lye and methanol with the triglycerides, the lye breaks up the glycerine from the three fatty acid chains it?Ts connected to. Then the methanol comes in and connects with all the broken up fatty acid chains. So the final product is basically a whole lot of methyl esters (a methanol combined with a fatty acid chain) mixed in with some leftover lye and glycerine. Once you wash the solution and drain out the extra shit, you have pure methyl esters. And that's all biodiesel is. But let me tell you, these methyl esters are crazy. I mean, you can run a freaking car on them. Right on, Eric. Well said my biofuel friends, All I can say is Right On! Can you dig it! __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] three phase electricity, cheap motors, and the rotary phase converter
biodieseler land as we are all a bunch of scroungers and we seem to need motors. I have found that three phase motors are always really cheap (often free) because no one wants them because three phase power is not typically available in non-commercial settings and it is often only available to larger customers who use a lot of power and pay a lot of presence fee. if you have an extra three phase motor and standard 220 power you can make your own three phase. Single phase 220 is actually 2 phases, shifted by 180 degrees with a common neutral, that is what the three wires are. If you examine your breaker box you will find that it has 2 rails or buses each of them connected to a single conductor that comes in from the electric company, and a third which is connected to the neutral line and also to ground. 110 volt breakers connect to one or the other bus line and then you connect the other lines to the ground/neutral (this is only true in the main panel, in a sub panel or in a junction/device box neutral and ground are different) 220V breakers are connected to both buses so they get both phases of power coming from the electric company. in three phase you get a third leg so now you have four wires. you can actually run a three phase motor on any two legs but it will produce less power and, if jolted just right, may reverse direction. so here is the magic, if you drive a motor it will generate, so you drive the motor on the first two legs and then grab the third leg for your other motors. the trick is starting, once you have it going the first motor, the idler spins, leading the phase on the third leg which produces the necessary current for the other motors to have their three phase. if you have one really big motor (like a 3-5 horse) and some smaller motors (like one horse) you can run a few of them off the same phase converter without any problems. there are some neat tricks too for example those who understand capacitors will remember that although they pass AC, they also produce a phase shift or lag so if you add a capacitor between the first leg and the third leg of a large enough value you can actually start your phase converter (or your motors if you don't need their rated power) with just the regular 220. if your phase converter is rated at more horsepower than your load and your motors have a service factor of 1.15 to 1.25 (should be on the plate on the side of the motor, probably S.F.) then you should get your full rated horsepower. there is an excellent site on all of this complete with some diagrams here: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/ph-conv/ph-conv.html here is a PDF that has instructions on building a nicely integrated phase converter for shop power: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/3-phase.pdf John Guttridge ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] storing vegetable oil
- Original Message - From: ken murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: [Biofuel] storing vegetable oil If I want to use vegetable oil as fuel, I want to be able to have a month's supply in reserve. You will have no trouble in rotating a month's supply, once properly washed. There is some concern about bubbling for washing as air causes oxidation that could have a negative effect in long term storage, if I understand that correctly. I use an oscillating lawn sprinkler hung upside down and fed via a Pony Pump to wash and it works very well. How well will vegetable oil store? How is it done? Some have had success storing for several months. The usual prefered method of storage is in carboys. Fill to the brim so that there is a little air as possible and keep in a cool (not cold) dark place. Will new and Used oil store the same? Once processed into BD or before processing? Virtually any oil will keep almost forever if kept near or below freezing, but I don't know what the effect would be on storing BD in a frozen state for any length of time. Luc thanks Kemp __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] New BD brewer
- Original Message - From: Dana Knight [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:33 PM Subject: [Biofuel] New BD brewer Hello All, I have been doing the research on BD for that last month or so and am now trying to source all the equipment I need in the most economical fashion possible. This is proving more difficult than I thought. Two questions; does anyone know of a good source for parts and equipment (can't afford pre-fab systems); Never mind the pre-fabs, do it yourself, you'll get more out of the experience that way. Depending on how able you are with your hands, you could probably find some useful stuff at the local dump; a used water heater (or a local plumber might help also), some plumbing that has been discarded, some lumber bits and pieces ect. even some electrical cord (No 10 or 12)could probably be found there. As for the electronics you are going to have to go at least middle of the road, don't cheap out on stuff like a scale and PH meter as these alone will help eliminate basic problems during titration. The amount of things you will need is also relative to what kind of processor you want to make. You can get away pretty simply with a 22 liter one; http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html Not a whole lot of complicated stuff there, however, unless you want to spend your entire week's free time making fuel 20 liters at a time, a larger one may be in order :-) Luc and second; any BD brewers in Colorado please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] to share knowledge. Cheers, Dana Knight Boulder, CO ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] best processor, was: The Straight Up on Biodiesel - Can you dig it?!
Any of the plans you see on JTF make quality biodiesel, otherwise they wouldn't be up there. If there's a best I'd think it's Deep Thort, because it does have some tweaks that either help or at least don't hurt. Most of the responsibility for the quality of the biodiesel however will rest with the operator not the equipment. Good biodiesel can be made in a basic steel 55 gallon drum with a propane torch for a heater and a drill and paint stirrer for an agitator, in the rain, outdoors in winter (I know because I've done it). Stainless will hold up longer, hard plumbing of reactor style vessels make safety simpler but the quality of the product all rests in the hands of the operator. kk Legal Eagle wrote: G'day Dan; Have you looked at Mike Pelly's set up ? If you are able to work stainless you could consider something along his lilnes: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor11.html is the path. Luc - Original Message - From: Dan Wilde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Straight Up on Biodiesel - Can you dig it?! Hello everyone, I am new to this, I am going to make a Biodiesel unit. My question is,out of all the ideas out there, what unit is giving the cleanest fuel and is there a set of plans I may buy on this unit.I was planning to make it out of stainless steel, and make it right the first time. Many thanks Dan Wilde, Albuquerque,NM Phillip Wolfe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a great biode definition from a real thinker on another bioblog: Straight Up Eric over at Schoebiz posted an easy-to-understand piece on the composition of biodiesel: http://www.schoebiz.com/archives/80.php I guess they use the word bio because the ingredients come from biological sources. The ingredients are methanol, lye, and fat. You can make this stuff out of waste vegetable oil (WVO) from a Burger King. Fat is just a series of triglycerides. A triglyceride is comprised of three (tri) fatty acid chains and one glycerine molecule. When you mix the lye and methanol with the triglycerides, the lye breaks up the glycerine from the three fatty acid chains it?Ts connected to. Then the methanol comes in and connects with all the broken up fatty acid chains. So the final product is basically a whole lot of methyl esters (a methanol combined with a fatty acid chain) mixed in with some leftover lye and glycerine. Once you wash the solution and drain out the extra shit, you have pure methyl esters. And that's all biodiesel is. But let me tell you, these methyl esters are crazy. I mean, you can run a freaking car on them. Right on, Eric. Well said my biofuel friends, All I can say is Right On! Can you dig it! __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- Kenneth Kron President Bay Area Biofuel http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 415-867-8067 What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it! Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset
- Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset G'day Luc, where do you find one of these units and what do they cost? At times they can be had where ever they sell and/or restore and/or service refrigerated trailors. You want the diesel powered one. Cost will vary on the used market. New would be in a couple to a few thousand I suspect. They are electronically controlled with a type of think pad with all the necessary gauges to let you know if something is amiss. I haven't tried out this idea yet although it seems from everything that I have been abel to gather that there is no good reason why it wouldn't work as expected. It is for all intents and purposes a diesel engine like any diesel engine, with battery, fuel pump and filters, electric start and thermometer swith controled. You set the temp you want on the control panel and then when the temp gets there the thermometer tells the unit to stop producing heat/cold. The position of the thermometer's reader is important. In a trailer it is behind the back wall where the returning air will hit it and record the inside air temp which it will then aloow the unit to continue cooling/heating or tell it to standby until the temp drops/ goes up enough to have it automatically switch on again.They can be set to continuous run or recycle. The later will turn the thing on and off as the need is. The former will run the motor continuously although it will still only heat/cool when the thermometer tells it to. On continuous run it could also be charging a battery bank while waiting for the thermometer to kick in.The power produced would not be for use by the unit itself as it is stand-alone and self sufficient; the power would be for other stuff, like lights or a processor or other stuff. Like I said though, it is still only a work in the ideas stage at this time. Oh yeah, on full run all day it will consume about 25 liters fuel. A reafer needs to be fueled every second day when on the road, so does that make it viable ? I've not done any calculations yet. Luc John ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,...]
but I still maintain that your pumps will be as good as impellers. Both are attached to motors, and transfer the energy into fluid motion. I reckon anyone can maintain what they wish. But props and pump-impellers aren't quite the same thing. A prop provides lift/thrust while at the same time propelling fluid out from its orbit. Pumps incur far more friction, being designed for uni-directional flow, with all their force exiting through a small surface area. If the pump isn't positioned sensibly and if a tank isn't configured for pump circulation (round) you won't get anywhere close to the same interaction of materials as you will with a prop. We've seen how little interaction there is with a 3/4 hp pump in comparison to our present 3/4 hp, twin-prop setup. The results were enough to convince us that pumps are far better for fluid transfer and props are best left for mixing. Todd Swearingen Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,...] This is the response that I received from Evan, the graduate student at Cornell's defrees hydraulics lab who has been helping me out. Evan wrote: John, I think you said it just right. I'll ask around to verify what I told you, but I still maintain that your pumps will be as good as impellers. Both are attached to motors, and transfer the energy into fluid motion. Once a fluid is put in motion, mixing happens. Just move the fluid, by any means available. Any luck getting the 3-phase motors started with a one-phase motor? Evan At 01:12 PM 1/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: Evan, I am involved in a discussion of mixing things on the biofuel list, I have attached the whole thread, someone suggested that pump mixing would be insufficient and then we got into a whole discussion about the details in which I did my best to sum up what you told me the other afternoon when I came in and played with pumps and drew things on chalkboards. I would really appreciate it if you would look over this and tell me what you think and add comments, corrections and suggestions where appropriate. thanks, John X-Account-Key: account1 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from mx.lightlink.com (pop.lightlink.com [205.232.34.15]) by adore.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00526 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from spam2.lightlink.com (spam2.lightlink.com [205.232.89.54]) by mx.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28477 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:48 -0500 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1105033787-16992-600-0 X-Barracuda-URL: http://spam2.lightlink.com:80/cgi-bin/mark.cgi Received: from smtp0.lightlink.com (mail0.lightlink.com [205.232.89.50]) by spam2.lightlink.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 80843200D92F for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from lightlink.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) by smtp0.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) id MAA04435 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:46 -0500 Received: from nnytech.net (mail.converselabs.com [64.19.75.36]) by smtp0.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04385 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:49:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 1263 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2005 17:28:31 - Received: from localhost (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (127.0.0.1) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2005 17:28:31 - Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 31416 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2005 17:09:23 - Received: from emerald.lightlink.com (205.232.34.14) by 0 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2005 17:09:23 - Received: from [127.0.0.1] (rp1.lightlink.com [207.127.233.34]) by emerald.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13501 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:09:20 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 12:09:19 -0500 From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,... Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,... References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:28:28 + X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Id: biofuel.wwia.org List-Unsubscribe: http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive:
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
Electric heating combined with coolant heat takes care of that. See our site. Regards, Edward Beggs B.E.S. M.Sc. Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:23 AM, John Guttridge wrote: who runs liquidsolar (www.liquidsolar.com) reports to me that he almost never gets to switch over in the winter on trips under 10-15 miles but he has a big tank for the SVO so that might have something to do with it. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
economy than diesel. Regards, Edward Beggs B.E.S. M.Sc. Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:23 AM, John Guttridge wrote: I don't know what people say with regards to SVO. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,...]
Pumps incur friction to do their job but what do your get for your friction, you always get heat which in judicious quantities is great for biodiesel reactions. Further more you get, From a pump 1) great micro mixing (i.e. the stuff going through the pump is well mixed). 2) Locally elevated temperatures at the elbows. From a prop: 1) good macro mixing, possibly poor micro mixing until you push enough fluid 2) Locally elevated temperatures (mostly at the prop head which probably has a larger surface area than the pipe elbows. Of course prop mixing is easier to understand but that doesn't mean it's more efficient from an energy vs mixing stand point. I realize that simple one inlet one outlet, bottom center drain 90 degree wall return sytems fail to provide the same results that the same HP prop mixer will but the aforementioned pump system is not a well designed system. Also the prop driven systems need a more expensive motor since it's sitting right on top of the reactor and since there is not as large a market for them as for pumps, and a more expensive seal around the prop shaft. Prop driven systems are also more difficult to engineer for pressure because of the need to pressure seal the prop shaft (again these seals being a smaller market than equivalent pressure pump seals). Without direct emperical studies I don't think one can say with authority what value the great micro mixing you get from the fluid going through the pump (pump mixing is the fastest way I know of to creat an emuslion) is vs the friction that you have to pay to do it. You could compare friction loss of pumping a gallon through a 1 pipe with 1 90 degree and 3 45 degree elbows (that would be minimal turns to get from the bottom to the top of a tank) to friction of a 6 ft pipe with no elbows which would give you a ball park on how much energy you are losing to friction but my guess is there still is not that much energy loss and what loss there is get's turned into heat which is another good thing in biodiesel reactions so I could easily see where a well designed pump mixer could compete with a well designed prop mixer. For a ball park estimate one could look at some of the continuous flow reactors. They are the worst case scenario of a pump based mixer. Lots of pipe minimal (as in very close to zero) volume in the mixing vessel. Just some thoughts that I hope encourage research, I love good research, wish I had time to do more! Kenneth Appal Energy wrote: John, but I still maintain that your pumps will be as good as impellers. Both are attached to motors, and transfer the energy into fluid motion. I reckon anyone can maintain what they wish. But props and pump-impellers aren't quite the same thing. A prop provides lift/thrust while at the same time propelling fluid out from its orbit. Pumps incur far more friction, being designed for uni-directional flow, with all their force exiting through a small surface area. If the pump isn't positioned sensibly and if a tank isn't configured for pump circulation (round) you won't get anywhere close to the same interaction of materials as you will with a prop. We've seen how little interaction there is with a 3/4 hp pump in comparison to our present 3/4 hp, twin-prop setup. The results were enough to convince us that pumps are far better for fluid transfer and props are best left for mixing. Todd Swearingen Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Biofuel] Re: pump mixing,...] This is the response that I received from Evan, the graduate student at Cornell's defrees hydraulics lab who has been helping me out. Evan wrote: John, I think you said it just right. I'll ask around to verify what I told you, but I still maintain that your pumps will be as good as impellers. Both are attached to motors, and transfer the energy into fluid motion. Once a fluid is put in motion, mixing happens. Just move the fluid, by any means available. Any luck getting the 3-phase motors started with a one-phase motor? Evan At 01:12 PM 1/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: Evan, I am involved in a discussion of mixing things on the biofuel list, I have attached the whole thread, someone suggested that pump mixing would be insufficient and then we got into a whole discussion about the details in which I did my best to sum up what you told me the other afternoon when I came in and played with pumps and drew things on chalkboards. I would really appreciate it if you would look over this and tell me what you think and add comments, corrections and suggestions where appropriate. thanks, John X-Account-Key: account1 Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from mx.lightlink.com (pop.lightlink.com [205.232.34.15]) by adore.lightlink.com (8.9.3p2/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00526 for [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset
Hi, Although this would work, when I looked into similar stuff for power tools, etc., I came to the conclusion that it is better to have one gen-set and have everything else electric, than to have a bunch of diesel engines about. The maintenance is easier, the management of the systems is easier, the noise is better contained, and one has greater flexibility. Personally, I would go with a biodiesel or veg-oil fired gen-set for electric with co-gen heat for space heating. If refrigeration or air-conditioning is needed, go electric for that part. Also, used Isocontainers are relatively easy to purchase if work or storage space is needed. They can be delivered and you don't need to worry about the wheeled undercarriage of a normal semi-trailer. They are available in a variety of sizes and as reefers if insulation is needed. Used rail cars would be difficult to move about. I believe the used isocontainers are also cheaper than the equivalent sized semi-trailers. Derek Hargis -- Original message -- From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] G'day John; - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset G'day Luc, where do you find one of these units and what do they cost? At times they can be had where ever they sell and/or restore and/or service refrigerated trailors. You want the diesel powered one. Cost will vary on the used market. New would be in a couple to a few thousand I suspect. They are electronically controlled with a type of think pad with all the necessary gauges to let you know if something is amiss. I haven't tried out this idea yet although it seems from everything that I have been abel to gather that there is no good reason why it wouldn't work as expected. It is for all intents and purposes a diesel engine like any diesel engine, with battery, fuel pump and filters, electric start and thermometer swith controled. You set the temp you want on the control panel and then when the temp gets there the thermometer tells the unit to stop producing heat/cold. The position of the thermometer's reader is important. In a trailer it is behind the back wall where the returning air will hit it and record the inside air temp which it will then aloow the unit to continue cooling/heating or tell it to standby until the temp drops/ goes up enough to have it automatically switch on again.They can be set to continuous run or recycle. The later will turn the thing on and off as the need is. The former will run the motor continuously although it will still only heat/cool when the thermometer tells it to. On continuous run it could also be charging a battery bank while waiting for the thermometer to kick in.The power produced would not be for use by the unit itself as it is stand-alone and self sufficient; the power would be for other stuff, like lights or a processor or other stuff. Like I said though, it is still only a work in the ideas stage at this time. Oh yeah, on full run all day it will consume about 25 liters fuel. A reafer needs to be fueled every second day when on the road, so does that make it viable ? I've not done any calculations yet. Luc John ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
ken murphy a crit : (...) It was reported in the news papers a couple of years ago that a local company changed to using vegetable oil as a fuel in all their large trucks. The owner of the company made the change because of the reduced pollutants from VO as opposed to diesel. He said there was no conversion of any sort required on his trucks. He simply began fueling them with VO. Normal. When Rudolph Diesel has invented the diesel motor, the petrodiesel fuel didn't exist and the motors was design to work with VO from linen seeds. Frantz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] nissan diesel
Hiya Ken, I have a Nissan Diesel SD 33. '83 model. The vehicle goes well on biodiesel. Just had alot of problems with the B100 cleaning the tank. So far the only only real problems have been the rubber fuel pipes need replacing and the riser pump may need new O rings and seals. In the bottom of the riser pump, where the fuel line enters, is the 'primary fuel filter', it will need a good clean up. I placed a $2 petrol style fuel filter in the fuel line prior to this to save problems.and replace it very regularly. So far the injector pump is going well. If you are after a second hand injector pump, they do exist. In Oz, the patrol was a popular truck, its biggest fail was a tendency to get a knock, and that is fatal ( read expensive).Luckily the injector pump is tough, but still you pay for it. The weather here in Queensland, Australia is hot at this time (summer 31 -35oC and winter 2 - 15oC average) and so far I haven't struck any problems with the B100. Chris Kelly - Original Message - From: ken murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] nissan diesel I have recently acquired 1982 (Datsun)Nissan diesel wagon. If anyone knows how well this vehicle will operate on vegetable oil and what conversion might be necessary, I will appreciate the information. I live in the Phoenix, Arizona, USA area where temperatures range from hot in the summer (110 degrees Fahrenheit), to a few days a year when it might freeze in winter but just barely. Daytime temperatures here lately are in the 50's. This is typical for winter. http://channels.netscape.com/ns/weather/c_select2.jsp?pers=ywhere=85210x=12y=14 Also, The vehicle I have is in need of an injection pump. At $3100 a new one is out of the question. If anyone has info on rebuilding that part, I need it. Thanks Kemp __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] E pluribus unum (was biodiesel processor)
(...) E Pluribus Unum Motto of the USA since 1776 Out of many, one ? Tous ensemble ne faire qu'un ? Frightening for countries out of the Empire when it's policy is so agressive and so selfish abroad (despite of current US aid in Indonesia). Should rather be the UN motto (an even I'd be afraid because in human societies as in Nature, la richesse nait de la diversite, wealth comes from diversity) With the Emperor G.W.Bush, the motto of the great US democraty could be Nec Pluribus Impar motto of the french absolutist king Louis XIV (1638-1715) Above all men Don't forget that the other US motto, on the reverse side of the 1776 great seal is Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God. http://www.greatseal.com/committees/firstcomm/index.html Frantz DESPREZ /Ç In varietate concordia È Unie dans la diversit United in diversity motto of the EuropeanUnion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_mottos / ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset
Hello, During my days in Silicon Valley the high tech manufacturers would always keep big gensets in case of power outages. We called these gensets - big bore gensets - some were cogeneration type gensets or triple purpose gensets, sized them up to 1,000 kilowatts (1Mw) or higher. Companies such as Aggeko, Catterpillar, Onan, Cummins, are the usual names for large systems in my area. The Rule of Thumb cost for typcial commercial cogneration system with heat recovery and create your electricity is about $600 to $1,000 per 1000 kilowatts. This is not for the average do-it-yourselfer but for commercial and industrial. I believe there is another reader on this list who has a bonafide home system. I forgot his hame. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Although this would work, when I looked into similar stuff for power tools, etc., I came to the conclusion that it is better to have one gen-set and have everything else electric, than to have a bunch of diesel engines about. The maintenance is easier, the management of the systems is easier, the noise is better contained, and one has greater flexibility. Personally, I would go with a biodiesel or veg-oil fired gen-set for electric with co-gen heat for space heating. If refrigeration or air-conditioning is needed, go electric for that part. Also, used Isocontainers are relatively easy to purchase if work or storage space is needed. They can be delivered and you don't need to worry about the wheeled undercarriage of a normal semi-trailer. They are available in a variety of sizes and as reefers if insulation is needed. Used rail cars would be difficult to move about. I believe the used isocontainers are also cheaper than the equivalent sized semi-trailers. Derek Hargis -- Original message -- From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] G'day John; - Original Message - From: John Guttridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset G'day Luc, where do you find one of these units and what do they cost? At times they can be had where ever they sell and/or restore and/or service refrigerated trailors. You want the diesel powered one. Cost will vary on the used market. New would be in a couple to a few thousand I suspect. They are electronically controlled with a type of think pad with all the necessary gauges to let you know if something is amiss. I haven't tried out this idea yet although it seems from everything that I have been abel to gather that there is no good reason why it wouldn't work as expected. It is for all intents and purposes a diesel engine like any diesel engine, with battery, fuel pump and filters, electric start and thermometer swith controled. You set the temp you want on the control panel and then when the temp gets there the thermometer tells the unit to stop producing heat/cold. The position of the thermometer's reader is important. In a trailer it is behind the back wall where the returning air will hit it and record the inside air temp which it will then aloow the unit to continue cooling/heating or tell it to standby until the temp drops/ goes up enough to have it automatically switch on again.They can be set to continuous run or recycle. The later will turn the thing on and off as the need is. The former will run the motor continuously although it will still only heat/cool when the thermometer tells it to. On continuous run it could also be charging a battery bank while waiting for the thermometer to kick in.The power produced would not be for use by the unit itself as it is stand-alone and self sufficient; the power would be for other stuff, like lights or a processor or other stuff. Like I said though, it is still only a work in the ideas stage at this time. Oh yeah, on full run all day it will consume about 25 liters fuel. A reafer needs to be fueled every second day when on the road, so does that make it viable ? I've not done any calculations yet. Luc John ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Veg Oil vs Bio diesel
we have today, and their injection systems, were designed to use much lighter viscosity fuel...mid-distillate (diesel). It is imperative to reduce viscosity either via transesterification (make biodiesel) or by application of heat to the vegetable oil. These trucks were, most likely, running biodiesel, not vegetable oil, if running unmodified. If that is not the case and they were running unheated 100% vegoil in unmodified engines, they'd be asking for problems, as has been documented many times. Diesel's first engines having run vegetable oil is an interesting historical tidbit and nice general demonstration of the viability of the idea, but in relation to the engines of today it's not valid to use that as evidence that you can run unheated vegoil in an umodified fuel system or engine without conversion to biodiesel. Regards, Edward Beggs B.E.S. M.Sc. Neoteric Biofuels Inc. http://www.biofuels.ca On Jan 7, 2005, at 1:35 AM, Frantz DESPREZ wrote: Good morning from Europe, ken murphy a crit : (...) It was reported in the news papers a couple of years ago that a local company changed to using vegetable oil as a fuel in all their large trucks. The owner of the company made the change because of the reduced pollutants from VO as opposed to diesel. He said there was no conversion of any sort required on his trucks. He simply began fueling them with VO. Normal. When Rudolph Diesel has invented the diesel motor, the petrodiesel fuel didn't exist and the motors was design to work with VO from linen seeds. Frantz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha
Can someone tell me why all the interest in Jatropha? If you look at production of Vegetable oil yields on the Journey to Forever site http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html ; you will see it is far from what Oil of Palm is capable of. What is driving the interest and investment in Jatropha? Is it an issue with the amount of water needed for other oil producing plants? Is it an issue of the Oils and esters characteristics? Is it an issue of available land for the higher oil production plants? I understand for biofuel to be succesful every region will need to produce local oil or other biofuel crops. With this in mind, why aren't the Daimler Benz corporations of the world looking at Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae? Algae has great potential, and it seems is not getting the investment or interest it diserves. Take a look at what Michael Briggs, from the University of New Hampshire has to say about biodiesel from Algae. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html He also has very interesting view on hydrogen full cells. Read it and you will begin to understand why the current Bush administration thinks hydrogen full cells are a good thing. Best regards to all! --- francisco j burgos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apreciado tocayo. muchas gracias F. - Original Message - From: FRANCISCO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha Francisco 1) I am please to share with you my views about Jatropha after a detailed literature research during the last 2 years. We are about to start a work to domesticate Jatropha here in Brasil. 2) Those are the figures I am using for a local project using Jatropha curcas L. *Planting*: 2 a 3 kg of _*seeds *_per hectare.(Approx. 1.300 seeds / Kg.). Assume 50% of seed will not generate healthy plants.** *Potential harvesting ( _seeds_ not fruit ) * *1º year*130 kg/ha** *2º *520 kg/ ha *3º*1300 kg/ha *4º*2600 kg/ha *5º*4160 kg/ha *6º till 30º year*6300 kg/ha *Harvesting :* 1.300 a 2.500 kg _*seeds*_ per hectare third year and on *Productivity harvesting ( man hour ):* 2 kg a 3 kg seeds/ men hour there are no mechanical equipment for jatropha yet. Assume will maintain plant height at 2m. at the most. *Oil content*: 5kg a 5,5 kg of seed has 1,25 litres a 1,48 liters of oil. ( 25% up to 35% content of oil )To run calculations be conservative like i am as of now. There are no scientific hard data on this . First large experiment is being conduct by Daimler Benz at Gujarat, India .So far so good. *__**__**__*Oil pressing efficiency: *__* 80 % o the potential oil (1,0 liters a 1,19 liters per hour ) (semi-industrial) Cleaning efficiency: about 90 % Transesterification: about 97% efficient You have to dry the fruit in the shadow. Peel it clean the seed and than press it properly. *Very important to press it properly and degum the pure oil in order to get a good biodiesel at the end. There are few critical tricks.* Pls note my numbers are *conservative not pessimistic not optimistic*. I contacted Africa, Germany ( Gtz, Reinhard at Hoekeheim University, etc. ) India ( Dr. Satish, etc. ) and Nicaragua and came up with above figures. Actual numbers will be better than those prior indicated so you can run a sensitivity for a 10% increase on final number of biodiesel.. Actual numbers will be in this range Saludos y Feliz año a todos Chico (Francisco Ramos from Rio de Janeiro and Santiago de Compostela ) francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Andrew Lowe: Many thanks, Francisco. - Original Message - From: Andrew Lowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:47 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha francisco j burgos wrote: Dear Crystal: could you please tell me the Jatropha nuts oil production in litres/hect or gallon/acre?. Tks, Francisco. Have a look on Journey to Forever, http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html. The values here correspond with values I've seen from a few other sources. Regards, Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 3/01/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel on Radio tonight 1-7-05
Well on web radio anyway...probably midnight Eastern US time Rudi Weidemann on Jeff Rense show: http://www.rense.com/ http://www.gcnlive.com/monday-friday.htm ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -Thomas Jefferson -- ___ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] student seeking info on conducting Feasability Studies...part of Thesis
My name is David and i'm a student at university of Mary Washington as well as a home brewer. I was originally drawn to biodiesel for 3 reasons: 1) its resistance to multinational oil corporations, 2) its lower emissions, and 3) the ability to make my own fuel. As I've become more involved in the biodiesel scene here in VA I've encountered several municipalities (or is it municipals...whatever) as well as universities which have adopted biodiesel into their fleets. I have had my thesis approved (major: Sustainable Development ( focusing on greening capitalism) to conduct a study of the feasiblity of buying and/or brewing BD on site for the university and city fleets. While i have a good idea of what is entailed in a feasability study, i understand that there is a general format which biodiesel consultants tend to follow. I'm hoping there is a consultant out there who can send me a copy of a feasability study that i may use as a guideline in my study, or at least list for me some of the important criteria. I have a general outline of my approach to this study for anyone interested. Also, I'd like to know what kinds of grants are available for student BD research that would apply for a student researching BD for a University or City. This is an amazing blog. I've learned so much from it and thank you all for participating. I hope to hear from you soon. cheers, David T ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Biodiesel on Radio tonight 1-7-05
Well on web radio anyway...probably midnight Eastern US time Rudi Weidemann on Jeff Rense show: http://www.rense.com/ or http://www.gcnlive.com/monday-friday.htm ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ ^..^ Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. -Thomas Jefferson ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] City - Zoning for Clean Fuel Biodiesel Stations
Below is a survey and inquiry I sent by email to my City Planner Listserv in State of California. Feel free to provide me your comments. * Dear City/County Planners: I am conducting a study to determine feasibility of C-store gas stations as clean fueling stations. Question: Do General Plans of California Cities allow for the conversion of a gas station to a clean fuel gas station for biofuels? Biodiesel, Compressed Natural Gas, or other. What are your experiences? Possible Options for Gas Stations: 1. The existing gas station is available, passes all EPA regulations simply takes a delivery of biodiesel from a major supplier just as they did with regular motor fuels and provides to the public and fleets. This already occurs throughout the United States. 2. A private owner maybe interested in buying a Gas station(s) and refine their biodiesel and put a small waste vegatable oil converter on their property. The converter is about the size of a small cement mixer. Neighbors take their kitchen waste vegatable oil (WVO)to the neighborhood gas station. The neighborhood gas station converts the WVO to biofuels for use in diesel cars. 3. City coop/or private works with Neighboohoods and restuarants takes or obtains their WVO or have someone pick up the WVO and it is trucked to the local municipal waste where it is placed in seperate holding tank and re-converted into biofuel. OR this is done privately. Observations: I think option #1 is a given and already occurs in parts of U.S. I think Option #2 is more difficult. Option #3: I think Option #3 is the workable and probably already implemented in some cities and counties. Thank you for your time. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] [space-city] Re: [Antigravity] Antigravity or gravifugal? (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Petar Bosnic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [space-city] Re: [Antigravity] Antigravity or gravifugal? If the Eric Laithwaite demo of gravifugal force was bona fide, then expectedly there are flying saucers (Avro Cars?) with such internal propulsion systems today in private and military secret projects ready to head off to Moonshine City post 2015. Z On Fri, 7 Jan 2005, Petar Bosnic wrote: answer: antigravitiis incorect name. Gravifugal is correct one Several years after I do not know what to think about interest in antigravity. People has interest in the projects that are something absurduous, nonsence, projects without any future. Antigravity is realy a big problem, but it can not be solved by absurduous projects, project based in nonsence, which is case at mainly papers. Solution is in the creative application of science. My work shows that antigravity is some kind of nonsence. But instead of it there is GRAVIFUGAL FORCE, much mor suitable for human needs. And... and...EXPERIMENTALY PROVED before we were born Have you interest in such - non dream - project? Or maybe better: Have you courage to get awarness about that fact. If you have rweal interest or courage, please visit following site: http://www.geocities.com/agravity/ANTIGRAVITY.htm? Thank you Prof. Petar Bosnic Petrus __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! http://us.click.yahoo.com/RzSHvD/UOnJAA/79vVAA/UIYolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Antigravity/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Whatever you Wanadoo, click below: http://ads.smartgroups.com/adclick/CID=00b7c79a99a5 -- If you want to share pictures, use the calendar, or start a vote visit http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/SPACE-CITY To leave the Group, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Report abuse http://www.smartgroups.com/text/abusereport.cfm?gid%3D2853090mid%3D74 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] student seeking info on conducting Feasability Studies...part of Thesis
Dave, With a little bit of research on the Journey To Forever website you will find most of your answers. I am sure you will get some responses from the helpful experts on this email list. TO give you encouragement, I worked at a petroleum company for several years. The one I worked for has 35,000 gas stations around the world. I cannot knock them because they helped bring up my family with a good salary. But I do think there are opportunities to look at different fuel supply streams such as biodiesel. Many petroleum folks think the same way and will happen as inertia hits crtical point. I miss the steady salary of a real job but my early retirement and now free-lance work was a blessing in disguise cause I get to meet people like you and others on this email list. Keep up the good work. Citizen at Large Phillip Wolfe --- David Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings to all, My name is David and i'm a student at university of Mary Washington as well as a home brewer. I was originally drawn to biodiesel for 3 reasons: 1) its resistance to multinational oil corporations, 2) its lower emissions, and 3) the ability to make my own fuel. As I've become more involved in the biodiesel scene here in VA I've encountered several municipalities (or is it municipals...whatever) as well as universities which have adopted biodiesel into their fleets. I have had my thesis approved (major: Sustainable Development ( focusing on greening capitalism) to conduct a study of the feasiblity of buying and/or brewing BD on site for the university and city fleets. While i have a good idea of what is entailed in a feasability study, i understand that there is a general format which biodiesel consultants tend to follow. I'm hoping there is a consultant out there who can send me a copy of a feasability study that i may use as a guideline in my study, or at least list for me some of the important criteria. I have a general outline of my approach to this study for anyone interested. Also, I'd like to know what kinds of grants are available for student BD research that would apply for a student researching BD for a University or City. This is an amazing blog. I've learned so much from it and thank you all for participating. I hope to hear from you soon. cheers, David T ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
