[Biofuel] Re: JD2005

[Anti-Fossil]

> JD2005 wrote:

>I've also been thinking that there are too many people.If we hadn't got
> into burning fossil fuels but used renewable oils, wind and sun etc.
> instead, there would not be so many people would there?

Howdy JD,

One of us has got their spurs on just a little to tight.  Now I've read, and
re-read, this post at least 3 times.  Each time everything goes just fine,
until I hit that last section.  At that point, things get a little, well...I
just am not making the connection.  Now as far as shear numbers go, I'm with
you there.  I am also of the opinion that this beautiful blue marble has way
too many humans running around on her surface.  But, would you please
clarify this sentence:

>If we hadn't got into burning fossil fuels but used >renewable oils, wind
and sun etc. instead, there would >not be so many people would there?

I am having one **ll of a time understanding what you mean here.  Frankly, I
don't see the relationship between fossil fuels, renewable energy sources
and the current population.


AntiFossil
Mike Krafka  USA

A sign seen recently in a non-smoking area:
 "If we see smoke, we will assume you are
 on fire and take appropriate action."

Why do people pay to go up tall buildings
and then put money in binoculars to look
at things on the ground?





- Original Message - 
From: "JD2005" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?


> Hi;
>
> Ive been wondering out in the wilderness of the internet looking into
> boidiesel and SVO and the like.Alot of the most recent  questions may
be
> answered by a vistit to:
> http://www.biofuels.ca
>
> Particuarluy those about drying and cleaning waste vegetable oil plus the
> suitability of diesels.
>
> I've also been thinking that there are too many people.If we hadn't
got
> into burning fossil fuels but used renewable oils, wind and sun etc.
> instead, there would not be so many people would there?
>
> JD2005
>
>
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>
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[Biofuel] Global Warming Everybody's a Critic

[MH]

 Everybody's a Critic
   New voices join chorus pushing
   Bush to act on climate change
 http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2005/03/07/2/ 

 At this point it's getting hard to keep track,
 but a couple more notable folks have joined the
 ranks of those calling on the Bush administration,
 either implicitly or explicitly, to act on global warming.
 Perhaps most unexpected is James Baker, former secretary of
 state and Bush family consigliere, who helped President Bush
 triumph in Florida in 2000. "It may surprise you a little bit,
 but maybe it's because I'm a hunter and a fisherman, but I think
 we need to pay a little more attention to what we need to do to
 protect our environment," Baker told the Houston Forum Club last week.
 "When you have energy companies like Shell and British Petroleum ...
 saying there is a problem with excess carbon dioxide emission,
 I think we ought to listen."  Ya think?  Meanwhile,
 Lord May, president of the U.K.'s most prestigious group of
 scientists, the Royal Society, is more blunt. He criticized Bush
 and other leaders who are failing to act, calling them
 "modern-day Neros over climate change,
 fiddling while the world burns."

 straight to the source: Reuters, 03 Mar 2005
 straight to the source: The Independent, Steve Connor, 07 Mar 2005
 --- 

 James Baker:
 U.S. Must Address Global Warming, Bush Ally Says
 Mar 3, 2005
 http://www.reuters.com

 HOUSTON (Reuters) - Former Secretary of State James Baker,
 a close ally of the Bush family, broke ranks with the
 Bush administration on Thursday and called for
 the United States to get serious about global warming.

 Baker, in a speech to an audience that included a number of
 oil company executives, said "orderly" change to
 alternative energy was needed.

 "It may surprise you a little bit, but maybe it's because
 I'm a hunter and a fisherman, but I think we need to
 pay a little more attention to what we need to do
 to protect our environment," he told the Houston Forum Club.

 "When you have energy companies like Shell and British Petroleum,
 both of which are perhaps represented in this room, saying
 there is a problem with excess carbon dioxide emission,
 I think we ought to listen," Baker said.

 Baker ran presidential campaigns for George Bush and
 served in his Cabinet and led George W. Bush's
 controversial legal fight to win the
 Florida vote in the 2000 election.

 The current Bush administration has been skeptical about
 global warming and refused to sign on to the
 international Kyoto Treaty to combat climate change,
 saying it would hurt the U.S. economy.

 Baker said he agreed with the decision not to join Kyoto,
 calling it "a lousy treaty" because it did not include
 China and India.

 But he said he supported
 "a gradual and orderly transition" to new fuels.

 "I think we need to go forward with some sort of
 gradual, resourceful search for alternative sources,"
 Baker said.

 Many scientists blame the burning of fossil fuels such as
 coal and oil for creating a "greenhouse" effect
 that is warming the world climate.

 The United States is the leading oil consumer and
 top producer of greenhouse gases. Most U.S. energy companies
 reject the idea that global warming is occurring. 
 --- 

 Bush accused of 'fiddling while world burns'
 by ignoring climate change
 By Steve Connor, Science Editor
 07 March 2005
 http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=617595 

 One of Britain's most eminent scientists has attacked President Bush
 for acting like a latter-day Nero who fiddles while
 the world burns because of global warming.

 Lord May of Oxford, the president of the Royal Society and
 former chief scientific adviser to the Government, said
 the Bush administration must accept the case has been made
 about the link between man-made pollution and climate change.
 Continuing to deny the impact of human activities on the
 environment may ultimately have catastrophic consequences
 for everyone on the planet, he said.

 The Royal Society has calculated that the
 13 per cent rise in greenhouse gas emissions from the United States
 since 1990 will dwarf the cuts resulting from all other countries
 that will follow the Kyoto protocol. In a speech to policy-makers
 in Berlin today, Lord May will also castigate elements within the
 British media who promote "misleading" opinions about the
 true nature of the scientific uncertainties
 surrounding climate change.

 "If the public are misled into thinking
 climate change does not pose a serious potential threat,
 some policy-makers could more easily find an excuse not to act.
 The United States administration has shown that this is the case,"
 Lord May said. "All countries must accept the case has been made
 ... We need to ensure our own leaders and opinion-formers in the
 media are not allowed to act as modern-day Neros over climate change,
 fiddling while the world burns," Lord May said.

 "There is a real problem and the solutions aren't easy but
 it

Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?

[Doug Younker]

Fair? Maybe, Phillip, but is it practical and applicable?  Not to overwhelm
the natural resources over the generations, something had to keep the human
population in check.  What where those events and are they something modern
day man would accept?  Sounding like a stuck record, there is a finite
number of humans the earth can support in the manner the Yokuts did.  The
day of expansion to new areas of resources has long passed, unless
colonization in space is over the horizon.  For quite some time now man by,
agriculture and animal husbandry has been able to coerce the Earth to
support our growing numbers and perhaps by wiser use man may be able to
extend the current period, but for how much longer?
Doug, N0LKK
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
What is good for the GM customers and GM employees is what's good for GM and
America.

- Original Message - 
From: "Phillip Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?


: The San Joaquin Valley California lands and farms are
: facing the same issues - urban pressure.  May we look
: at other countries for some examples of how family
: farms survived over many many generations?  Perhaps
: others on this listserv can provide examples.  For
: example, the California Yokut indigenous tribes of
: Califonria survied for thousands of years in the
: Central Valley basin of California.  Is it fair to
: compare their ability to sustain over multiple
: generations by living with nature VS the modern
: society of mixed urban and agriculture and material
: gain vs. other?
:
: http://bss.sfsu.edu/calstudies/NativeWebPages/yokut%20page.html
:
: Respectfully Submitted
: Phillip Wolfe

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RE: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car

Nope 

To liquefy methane you need to take below -200K Degrees. 
Its called LNG.
Methane is Natural Gas. You need to compress it to around 3000Psi
To get effective storage in a car/truck/bus. Depended on driving
distance. 

MT



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Younker
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car


I think there has to be more than meets the eye on such a conversion.
Propane is stored a liquid and I assume methane is as well.  Can the
propane tanks withstand the pressure required to liquefy methane?
Propane contains more energy than methane, will you realize a net
savings?  In any event I would guess you would have to adjust  the
fuel/air metering. Doug
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car


: I have an old petrol car (75 mercedes 230.4) converted to LPG
recently.
: But In the last few months the price of LPG has started to rise. I am
: wondering if it is possible to use methane instead of LPG?
:
: I have a fridge compressor that I can compress the methane in to
tanks,
: the could I just connect the tank instead of the LPG tank?
:
: Could somebody tell me if this is doable with ease or would I need to
: further convert the engine.
:
: Thanks
: Teoman
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Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[Keith Addison]

a few of the links don't work (one of the gm links for sure...).


Yes, some of the PNGV links don't work now, though I've replaced them 
several times. Not something they're mad keen to shout about, I 
suppose - understandably, if you read what Doyle has to say about it. 
Shameful.



i would love to have a diesel hybrid car - hopefully in a few years in
this country, eh?


For the same thing to happen again?

What's bothered me about this in the past is that the PNGV technology 
is not their's to bury just because it suits their corrupt hearts. It 
was publicly funded, it belongs to you, not to them. I think a 
suitably embarrassing campaign could be got together to force them to 
release it, even if not for their own use. It doesn't need any more 
massive research labs to make it work, it does work already. Feel 
like rounding up some of the boys and putting the boot in? But I 
guess the kneejerk anti-diesel lobby in the US won't make things any 
easier. And Jack Doyle already put the boot in, with no apparent 
effect.


On the other hand, a Rabbit running B100 will probably out-economise 
and out-ecofriendly the gas-hybrids. Worth a thought.


Regards

Keith




kenn

> Hello Kenn
>
>> >>with the popularity of gas hybrids, i was wondering if it's possible
>> to
>> >>make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???
>> >>
>> >>thanx, kenn
>> >
>> > See:
>> > http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041227/004092.html
>> > [Biofuel] More hybrid technology news
>> >
>>
>>thanx keith - looks like only big trucks & buses; don't know if hybrid
>>diesel cars are on the horizon??
>
> Oops - you didn't follow the links, it's about hybrid diesel cars, not
> buses.
>
> "The PNGV diesel hybrid cars were hitting 80 mpg when the program was
> scrapped. I wonder if those were "real life application" figures?"
>
> And:
>
>>PNGV is here, about halfway down:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
>>Do diesels have a future?
>
> That's here:
>
> The US government/industry collaboration Partnership for a New
> Generation of Vehicles (PNGV), launched in 1993, was intended to
> reduce carbon dioxide emissions by developing ultra-clean, 80
> miles-per-gallon (34 km/litre) "hypercars" without sacrificing
> comfort, safety or performance, focusing on cleaner and more
> efficient diesel engines. Details:
> Technology Administration: Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles
> http://www.ta.doc.gov/PNGV-Archive/default.htm
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Program Background
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/background.html
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Related Links
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/related.html
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/
>
> General Motors' Precept achieved the mileage goal -- 80 miles per
> gallon. The car won the Popular Science "Best of What's New" Grand
> Award for automotive technology for 2000. The full-size
> five-passenger sedan is powered by two electric motors and a
> high-efficiency diesel. Its drag coefficient is just 0.16. GM says
> the Precept marks the leading edge of technology, and its design will
> have a strong influence on future cars. See General Motors' Precept
> Delivers on 80-mpg Promise:
> http://gm.com/company/gmability/environment/gm_and_the_env/releases/ov
> erview_release_10xx00.html
>
> Chrysler's stylish Dodge ESX3 lightweight diesel-electric hybrid,
> part of the PNGV program, combines a direct-injection diesel with an
> electric motor and an advanced battery to achieve 72 miles per gallon
> (30 km/litre). The 5-seater body is made of thermoplastic -- the same
> cheap plastic used to make soft-drink bottles. Carbon dioxide
> emissions are 56% lower than a conventional petrol engine, with 50%
> less particulate matter than a conventional diesel and 70% less
> nitrogen oxides. Range is 420 miles (672 km). Unlike totally electric
> vehicles, hybrids have unlimited driving range and never need to be
> plugged in for recharging. See DaimlerChrysler unveils electric car:
> http://detnews.com/2000/autos/0002/23/02230070.htm
>
> Ford's bid for the car of the future is the P2000 Prodigy 5-seater
> sedan, an ultra-light diesel-electric hybrid that boosts fuel economy
> to 63 miles per gallon (27 km/litre) and was expected to qualify as
> an ultra low emissions vehicle. Part of the PNGV program. The 1.2
> litre, direct injection diesel DIATA engine is 35% more efficient
> than an equivalent petrol engine. "Extremely fuel-efficient", and "A
> giant advance toward the production of lightweight, environmentally
> responsible vehicles with outstanding economy and emissions levels".
> See Ford Hybrid Electric Vehicle is on horizon:
> http://www.autoworld.com/news/Ford/Ford_Hybrid.htm
>
> The costs of the new hypercars came right down from that of the
> earlier prototypes, but were still higher than production models. See
> Super-High-Mileage Car Just a Concept, For Now, Washington Post,
> August 17, 2001:
> http://washingtonpost.com:80/w

[Biofuel] Neophyte seeks advice on runing 1983 Mercedes 300SD on BD

[Keith Addison]

Hello. I am an aspiring biodieseler with an elementary background in
chemistry.


:-) Some/many of us don't have any chemistry at all.


I would like to run my 1983 Mercedes 300SD on biodiesel. Can
anyone recomend a good formulation to use?


If you're buying it, B100. If you're planning to make it, start here:
"Where do I start?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

... and follow the learning curve.


Should I make any
modifications to the vehicle before I attempt to change over to BD? Any
advice would be appreciated.


The common advice to change the "rubber" parts in the fuel system to 
Viton or whatever's resistant is overstressed, IMO. The disaster 
seldom happens, and even if it does it won't be sudden, you'll have 
time to take action.


Some folks have had trouble with old Mercs and other cars having lots 
of gunk in the tank, which biodiesel loosens up, or rust, if it's 
been standing for awhile, and biodiesel loosens that too. There's a 
particulate filter *inside* the tank which gets blocked, and you 
can't easily get at it. The solution has been to take the filter out 
and refit it or another one outside the tank where you can get at it 
to clean it or change elements until the gunk's all gone. Again, wait 
till it happens, but be forewarned. It's a good idea to fit a 
secondary cheapo filter upstream of the main filter anyway. Apart 
from that, no mods necessary. Lots of folks here have old Mercs, I 
once had a much older Merc (1959), but I'm sure they can give you any 
more specific advice. They all seem to love their Mercs, and the 
Mercs seem to love their biodiesel.


Best wishes

Keith



Regards,

Thomas Gigiuiere
Folsom, CA


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[Biofuel] Neophyte seeks advice on runing 1983 Mercedes 300SD on BD

[Thomas Giguiere]

chemistry. I would like to run my 1983 Mercedes 300SD on biodiesel. Can 
anyone recomend a good formulation to use? Should I make any 
modifications to the vehicle before I attempt to change over to BD? Any 
advice would be appreciated.


Regards,

Thomas Gigiuiere
Folsom, CA
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Re: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car

[Chris Bennett]

I think there has to be more than meets the eye on such a conversion.
Propane is stored a liquid and I assume methane is as well.  Can the propane
tanks withstand the pressure required to liquefy methane?  Propane contains
more energy than methane, will you realize a net savings?  In any event I
would guess you would have to adjust  the fuel/air metering.
Doug
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car


: I have an old petrol car (75 mercedes 230.4) converted to LPG recently.
: But In the last few months the price of LPG has started to rise. I am
: wondering if it is possible to use methane instead of LPG?
:
: I have a fridge compressor that I can compress the methane in to tanks,
: the could I just connect the tank instead of the LPG tank?
:
: Could somebody tell me if this is doable with ease or would I need to
: further convert the engine.
:
: Thanks
 

Until recently I worked fitting Autogas converisons to petrol vehicles. 
Methane, or CNG (compressed natural gas) conversions are common. The 
electronic mixture control kits I used to perform lpg conversions were 
usually capable of running with CNG with most brands having dedicated 
kits for this type of conversion (same electronics and fuel metering 
just different pressure regulators.) Storage is usually by high pressure 
tanks which are NOT THE SAME as lpg tanks. The pressures are very high 
as oppose to the 7-10 bar inside a lpg tank. The gas could be stored at 
something like 100bar and I dont think it liquified at this. It was 
usual for lots of small cylinders to be fitted in an array in the back 
of vans etc. refuelling was carried out via an expensive multi stage 
compressor which was plugged into the filler adaptor each night and the 
tank was refuelled over night. I was led to believe that compressors 
were in the region of £5000UK. If the engine is fitted with a closed 
loop mixture control system you would get away with little or no 
adjustment to the software as long as the regulator output pressure was 
matched. You could not use the standard lpg regulator as it would not 
flow enough gas with a pre-regulator dropping the pressure down to a 
level that it could take. This is because the lpg regulators are 
designed to have a liquid feed and expansion into gas form takes place 
inside it. The first stage of the lpg regulator simply wouldn't be able 
to flow enough watts of gas vapour to feed the engine. You could 
pressurise a lpg tank safely to about 10bar and the car would run, it 
just wouldn't go very far and anything above even a fast idle would make 
the mixture lean off. It would drive EXACTLY like your current lpg car 
does when the tank runs dry and the engine is feeding on vapour pressure 
from the tank.


Regards

Chris Bennett..
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Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[goldma]

thanx again keith - i guess i didn't click on all the links... by the way,
a few of the links don't work (one of the gm links for sure...).

i would love to have a diesel hybrid car - hopefully in a few years in
this country, eh?

kenn

> Hello Kenn
>
>> >>with the popularity of gas hybrids, i was wondering if it's possible
>> to
>> >>make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???
>> >>
>> >>thanx, kenn
>> >
>> > See:
>> > http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041227/004092.html
>> > [Biofuel] More hybrid technology news
>> >
>>
>>thanx keith - looks like only big trucks & buses; don't know if hybrid
>>diesel cars are on the horizon??
>
> Oops - you didn't follow the links, it's about hybrid diesel cars, not
> buses.
>
> "The PNGV diesel hybrid cars were hitting 80 mpg when the program was
> scrapped. I wonder if those were "real life application" figures?"
>
> And:
>
>>PNGV is here, about halfway down:
>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
>>Do diesels have a future?
>
> That's here:
>
> The US government/industry collaboration Partnership for a New
> Generation of Vehicles (PNGV), launched in 1993, was intended to
> reduce carbon dioxide emissions by developing ultra-clean, 80
> miles-per-gallon (34 km/litre) "hypercars" without sacrificing
> comfort, safety or performance, focusing on cleaner and more
> efficient diesel engines. Details:
> Technology Administration: Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles
> http://www.ta.doc.gov/PNGV-Archive/default.htm
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Program Background
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/background.html
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Related Links
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/related.html
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles
> http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/
>
> General Motors' Precept achieved the mileage goal -- 80 miles per
> gallon. The car won the Popular Science "Best of What's New" Grand
> Award for automotive technology for 2000. The full-size
> five-passenger sedan is powered by two electric motors and a
> high-efficiency diesel. Its drag coefficient is just 0.16. GM says
> the Precept marks the leading edge of technology, and its design will
> have a strong influence on future cars. See General Motors' Precept
> Delivers on 80-mpg Promise:
> http://gm.com/company/gmability/environment/gm_and_the_env/releases/ov
> erview_release_10xx00.html
>
> Chrysler's stylish Dodge ESX3 lightweight diesel-electric hybrid,
> part of the PNGV program, combines a direct-injection diesel with an
> electric motor and an advanced battery to achieve 72 miles per gallon
> (30 km/litre). The 5-seater body is made of thermoplastic -- the same
> cheap plastic used to make soft-drink bottles. Carbon dioxide
> emissions are 56% lower than a conventional petrol engine, with 50%
> less particulate matter than a conventional diesel and 70% less
> nitrogen oxides. Range is 420 miles (672 km). Unlike totally electric
> vehicles, hybrids have unlimited driving range and never need to be
> plugged in for recharging. See DaimlerChrysler unveils electric car:
> http://detnews.com/2000/autos/0002/23/02230070.htm
>
> Ford's bid for the car of the future is the P2000 Prodigy 5-seater
> sedan, an ultra-light diesel-electric hybrid that boosts fuel economy
> to 63 miles per gallon (27 km/litre) and was expected to qualify as
> an ultra low emissions vehicle. Part of the PNGV program. The 1.2
> litre, direct injection diesel DIATA engine is 35% more efficient
> than an equivalent petrol engine. "Extremely fuel-efficient", and "A
> giant advance toward the production of lightweight, environmentally
> responsible vehicles with outstanding economy and emissions levels".
> See Ford Hybrid Electric Vehicle is on horizon:
> http://www.autoworld.com/news/Ford/Ford_Hybrid.htm
>
> The costs of the new hypercars came right down from that of the
> earlier prototypes, but were still higher than production models. See
> Super-High-Mileage Car Just a Concept, For Now, Washington Post,
> August 17, 2001:
> http://washingtonpost.com:80/wp-dyn/articles/A25087-2001Aug17.html
>
> Early in 2002 the PNGV program was axed by the Bush administration,
> to be replaced with the "Freedom Car" program focusing on hydrogen
> fuel-cells -- not expected to produce tangible results for a decade.
> See Driving In Circles: New Fuel-Efficiency Initiative Is More PR
> Than Progress:
> http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm?ID=4959
>
> Diesel hybrid cars.
>
> And here's why it was axed:
>
>>... Well, there and mouldering away on various back shelves in
>>Detroit. And this explains why:
>>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30857/
>
> Those links are broken now, these ones will work:
>
>>Driving In Circles
>>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/10937/
>
>>Fool Cells - How Detroit Plays Americans For A Bunch Of Suckers
>>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20706/
>
> See also the Mokhiber-Weissman review of Jack Doyle's book, "Taken
> for a Ride: Detroit's Big Three and the Politics of Polluti

Re: [Biofuel] freezer test

[Jan Lieuwe Bolding]

I have some similar experience with gelling at about 5 ¡C when I use used
frying oil(corn).

When I use used sunflower oil the results are much better.


With kind regards,



Jan Lieuwe Bolding
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] freezer test


> Hello Brent
>
> >I just did a test with some winter diesel and bio diesel blends. I
> >did a 50%, 33%, and a 20% blend. At -20c the 50% got thick but
> >didn't solidify or sepparate, and the other two were ok.
> >
> >Are these results consistant with what is expected from a good home brew
fuel?
>
> Dunno about blends (we never use them), but you could try putting
> some of your homebrew in a jar in the freezer with a thermometer in
> the jar, check it every few minutes to see what temp it goes cloudy
> and gels. There's a test like that here:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_winter.html
> Biodiesel in winter: Journey to Forever
>
> We've used Wintron X30 pour-point depressant, but we only used it
> once this winter, and that's long gone, none left in the tank now
> (though we do have more). It's been cold a lot, but we haven't had
> any problems. The TownAce splutters and hiccups a little on starting,
> but start it does, first kick, and it quickly settles down. Hm...
> there's different ideas on the list of what's cold, I know: here it
> seldom gets worse (lower) than about -12 deg C or so (10.5 deg F),
> and that's rare. Right now it's -7 deg C, and can drop to -10 or so;
> more often the nighttime temps are about 0 to -5.
>
> But I've seen messages in autumn from folks in San Francisco
> panicking when it gets below 40 deg F (4.5 deg C), still well above
> freezing, and their biodiesel starts to gel, which I don't
> understand. Ours is good to -5 deg C (23 deg F), and it seems even
> lower, and it's nothing special, we didn't even get rid of the
> saturated fats in the WVO for winter fuel, as we probably should
> have. So I don't know what they're making in San Francisco.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> >Brent
> >Saskatchewan Canada
> >
> >91 GMC 6.2
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car

[Doug Younker]

I think there has to be more than meets the eye on such a conversion.
Propane is stored a liquid and I assume methane is as well.  Can the propane
tanks withstand the pressure required to liquefy methane?  Propane contains
more energy than methane, will you realize a net savings?  In any event I
would guess you would have to adjust  the fuel/air metering.
Doug
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Methane to LPG car


: I have an old petrol car (75 mercedes 230.4) converted to LPG recently.
: But In the last few months the price of LPG has started to rise. I am
: wondering if it is possible to use methane instead of LPG?
:
: I have a fridge compressor that I can compress the methane in to tanks,
: the could I just connect the tank instead of the LPG tank?
:
: Could somebody tell me if this is doable with ease or would I need to
: further convert the engine.
:
: Thanks
: Teoman
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Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver

[Doug Younker]

- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver


: I don't believe that with the high compressions required of a diesel
: engine it is possible to have a non-interference design. To get the
: high compression there is VERY little space at TDC. I don't think
: there is any way to design around that. If the valves were recessed
: into the head then there would be more space underneath them.
:
: The proportion of displaceable space (where the piston travels) to
: non-displaceable (everywhere else) has to be very high (20:1 or maybe
: 22:1) to get this compression. That doesn't leave much of a
: possibility to play with.


I would think if any diesel could be a no interference design it may be the
2 cycle Detroits.  No intake valves, multiple exhaust valves and a
supercharger to push in fresh air in the spent out.  I also agree that
interference design isn't a failure on the part f the engineers.
Doug

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[Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[Keith Addison]

>>with the popularity of gas hybrids, i was wondering if it's possible to
>>make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???
>>
>>thanx, kenn
>
> See:
> http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041227/004092.html
> [Biofuel] More hybrid technology news
>

thanx keith - looks like only big trucks & buses; don't know if hybrid
diesel cars are on the horizon??


Oops - you didn't follow the links, it's about hybrid diesel cars, not buses.

"The PNGV diesel hybrid cars were hitting 80 mpg when the program was
scrapped. I wonder if those were "real life application" figures?"

And:


PNGV is here, about halfway down:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html
Do diesels have a future?


That's here:

The US government/industry collaboration Partnership for a New 
Generation of Vehicles (PNGV), launched in 1993, was intended to 
reduce carbon dioxide emissions by developing ultra-clean, 80 
miles-per-gallon (34 km/litre) "hypercars" without sacrificing 
comfort, safety or performance, focusing on cleaner and more 
efficient diesel engines. Details:

Technology Administration: Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles
http://www.ta.doc.gov/PNGV-Archive/default.htm
Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Program Background
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/background.html
Hybrid Electric Vehicles: Related Links
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/related.html
Hybrid Electric Vehicles
http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/

General Motors' Precept achieved the mileage goal -- 80 miles per 
gallon. The car won the Popular Science "Best of What's New" Grand 
Award for automotive technology for 2000. The full-size 
five-passenger sedan is powered by two electric motors and a 
high-efficiency diesel. Its drag coefficient is just 0.16. GM says 
the Precept marks the leading edge of technology, and its design will 
have a strong influence on future cars. See General Motors' Precept 
Delivers on 80-mpg Promise:
http://gm.com/company/gmability/environment/gm_and_the_env/releases/ov 
erview_release_10xx00.html


Chrysler's stylish Dodge ESX3 lightweight diesel-electric hybrid, 
part of the PNGV program, combines a direct-injection diesel with an 
electric motor and an advanced battery to achieve 72 miles per gallon 
(30 km/litre). The 5-seater body is made of thermoplastic -- the same 
cheap plastic used to make soft-drink bottles. Carbon dioxide 
emissions are 56% lower than a conventional petrol engine, with 50% 
less particulate matter than a conventional diesel and 70% less 
nitrogen oxides. Range is 420 miles (672 km). Unlike totally electric 
vehicles, hybrids have unlimited driving range and never need to be 
plugged in for recharging. See DaimlerChrysler unveils electric car:

http://detnews.com/2000/autos/0002/23/02230070.htm

Ford's bid for the car of the future is the P2000 Prodigy 5-seater 
sedan, an ultra-light diesel-electric hybrid that boosts fuel economy 
to 63 miles per gallon (27 km/litre) and was expected to qualify as 
an ultra low emissions vehicle. Part of the PNGV program. The 1.2 
litre, direct injection diesel DIATA engine is 35% more efficient 
than an equivalent petrol engine. "Extremely fuel-efficient", and "A 
giant advance toward the production of lightweight, environmentally 
responsible vehicles with outstanding economy and emissions levels". 
See Ford Hybrid Electric Vehicle is on horizon:

http://www.autoworld.com/news/Ford/Ford_Hybrid.htm

The costs of the new hypercars came right down from that of the 
earlier prototypes, but were still higher than production models. See 
Super-High-Mileage Car Just a Concept, For Now, Washington Post, 
August 17, 2001:

http://washingtonpost.com:80/wp-dyn/articles/A25087-2001Aug17.html

Early in 2002 the PNGV program was axed by the Bush administration, 
to be replaced with the "Freedom Car" program focusing on hydrogen 
fuel-cells -- not expected to produce tangible results for a decade. 
See Driving In Circles: New Fuel-Efficiency Initiative Is More PR 
Than Progress:

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm?ID=4959

Diesel hybrid cars.

And here's why it was axed:


... Well, there and mouldering away on various back shelves in
Detroit. And this explains why:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30857/


Those links are broken now, these ones will work:


Driving In Circles
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/10937/



Fool Cells - How Detroit Plays Americans For A Bunch Of Suckers
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20706/


See also the Mokhiber-Weissman review of Jack Doyle's book, "Taken 
for a Ride: Detroit's Big Three and the Politics of Pollution":

http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2000/31.html

Best wishes

Keith



kenn

> Follow the links.
>
> Best
>
> Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[JD2005]

Hi;

Ive been wondering out in the wilderness of the internet looking into
boidiesel and SVO and the like.Alot of the most recent  questions may be
answered by a vistit to:
http://www.biofuels.ca

Particuarluy those about drying and cleaning waste vegetable oil plus the
suitability of diesels.

I've also been thinking that there are too many people.If we hadn't got
into burning fossil fuels but used renewable oils, wind and sun etc.
instead, there would not be so many people would there?

JD2005


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Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[goldma]

>>with the popularity of gas hybrids, i was wondering if it's possible to
>>make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???
>>
>>thanx, kenn
>
> See:
> http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041227/004092.html
> [Biofuel] More hybrid technology news
>

thanx keith - looks like only big trucks & buses; don't know if hybrid
diesel cars are on the horizon??

kenn


> Follow the links.
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
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[Biofuel] Breathtaking: New Air Pollution Studies

[Keith Addison]

Breathtaking: New Air Pollution Studies

March 04, 2005 - By Green Guide Institute

NEW YORK, NY-You are what you eat, so they say. According to a number 
of new studies, however, you are also what you breathe-and even what 
your mother breathed. Recent research shows that air pollution of 
various kinds can stunt fetal development and contribute to asthma 
and other lung problems, as well as to premature deaths nationwide. 
City dwellers suffer most, and babies and children, with their 
developing lungs, hearts and brains, are particularly at risk. What's 
most alarming is that these negative effects are being found even at 
levels of pollution that do not exceed current federal safety 
standards.


A study published in Pediatrics in January 2005 linked mothers' 
exposure to fine particulate air pollution-including soot and ashes 
released by motor vehicles and power plants-to lowered birth weights 
in babies. Jointly researched by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control 
and Prevention (CDC) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), 
the study found that mothers exposed to high levels of fine 
particulates gave birth to babies weighing on average 30 
grams-slightly over an ounce-less than those exposed to low levels.


Other combustion by-products found in traffic and industrial exhaust, 
known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), were examined, 
along with tobacco smoke, in a study by the Columbia Center for 
Children's Environmental Health (CCEH). The researchers found that 
children exposed prenatally to PAHs and in infancy to environmental 
tobacco smoke (ETS) had a higher risk of coughing and wheezing at 
their first birthday, and of difficulty breathing and asthma symptoms 
at two years of age. Rachel Miller, M.D., an assistant professor at 
Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons and lead 
author of the article in the October 2004 Chest, told The Green Guide 
that the study was unique because it found that the combined effects 
of PAHs and ETS exposure can be significantly more harmful than those 
caused by either pollutant on its own.


Earlier last year, CCEH also measured PAHs in the air that pregnant 
women breathed by having them carry backpacks equipped with monitors. 
Samples of the babies' umbilical-cord blood taken after birth showed 
comparable DNA damage to that found in the mothers, even though the 
fetuses had been exposed at tenfold lower levels. These studies 
"raise concerns that we're not adequately protecting children, 
particularly in large urban areas, where we know there are particular 
'hot spots' of air toxins," Dr. Miller says.


Among older children, an eight-year study published in the September 
2004 New England Journal of Medicine suggests that exposure to a 
range of air pollutants, including particulate matter and nitrogen 
dioxide, produces long-term lung damage. Conducted by a team of 
researchers from the University of Southern California, the study 
examined the lungs of 1,759 schoolchildren in 12 downstate 
communities from fourth grade through high school. The teens who had 
grown up in areas with the foulest air were up to five times as 
likely to have reduced lung function as were those living in 
communities with the cleanest air.


And research published in the November 2004 Journal of the American 
Medical Association links short-term exposure to ozone to 3,767 
deaths per year, including 319 in New York City. Described as a 
"large and well-designed study" by the American Lung Association 
(ALA), it examined patterns of death due to respiratory and 
cardiovascular illness in 95 U.S. cities between 1987 and 2000, and 
found an association with short-term exposures to high levels of 
ozone-the most common air pollutant in the United States, according 
to the ALA. The association held up "even after eliminating ozone 
levels above the current U.S. standard, which is an important 
public-health policy finding," says Ron White, M.S.T., associate 
scientist at the Department of Epidemiology, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg 
School of Public Health.


The weight of evidence may have prompted a declaration by the 
American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), in the December 2004 issue of 
Pediatrics, that current federal air-quality laws may not be adequate 
to protect children, who are vulnerable to adverse health effects 
near or even below current standards.

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[Biofuel] A Clear Skies Smokescreen

[Keith Addison]

A Clear Skies Smokescreen

Frank O'Donnell

March 07, 2005

From the outset, the real goal of the Clear Skies Act has been to cut 
breaks for the biggest polluters-to postpone cleanup deadlines into 
the mid- 2020s, to eliminate pesky provisions of current law and to 
take away states' rights to enforce the law. Now Bush allies in the 
Senate are trying to strong-arm moderates into accepting Clear Skies, 
instead of standing for the existing Clean Air Act's stronger 
polluter requirements. Veteran environmentalist Frank O'Donnell 
explains.


Frank O'Donnell is president of Clean Air Watch, a 501 (c) 3 
non-partisan, non-profit organization aimed at educating the public 
about clean air and the need for an effective Clean Air Act. Visit 
the website at www.cleanairwatch.org.


On March 4, when President Bush named EPA career scientist Stephen 
Johnson as the agency's new head, the president declared that 
Johnson's main job would be selling the so-called "clear skies" plan 
to Congress.


It may have been a last-ditch effort to breathe new life into the 
president's ill-named, industry-friendly proposal.  If the plan isn't 
already six feet under, it's clear that some lawmakers are eyeing the 
shovels.


Even so, the Bush administration and its corporate allies are 
feverishly lobbying in an effort to ram this polluter protection plan 
through a closely divided Senate. Their strategy is focused on 
picking off moderate Senate Democrats such as Barack Obama, D-Ill., 
and Max Baucus, D-Mont.  (In what appears to have been an audition 
for his new job, Johnson recently toured Obama's Illinois to promote 
the Bush plan in the local media.)  It's still unclear whether any of 
the moderates will bend under the White House pressure.


Given the complex spiderwork of lies spun by the White House and its 
corporate allies on this issue, it might be worth a moment to step 
back and examine what the "clear skies" fuss is all about. 

To put the issue in context, it's worth recalling that when President 
Clinton left office, the biggest electric power polluters-including 
Southern Company, American Electric Power and Cinergy-were running 
scared.  Using authorities in the existing Clean Air Act, the Clinton 
administration had brought lawsuits aimed at compelling cleanup of 
aging, coal-burning power plants that had been illegally modified to 
keep running without modern pollution controls.  The Clinton EPA had 
also set in motion a plan to require every power plant in the nation 
to clean up toxic mercury emissions by 2008.


No sooner had the Bush administration taken office than these and 
other big polluters (all big Bush campaign contributors) lined up 
outside Vice President Cheney's office to request regulatory 
relief. Cheney, in turn, directed the EPA to reconsider its policy of 
enforcing the law.  In the process, the Bush administration developed 
a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to air pollution-don't ask the 
biggest polluters to clean up, and don't tell the public the truth 
about what's really happening.  Enforcement trailed off, and Bush 
appointees crafted an illegal plan to permit power companies to 
continue spewing toxic mercury for decades.  

But the big power companies remained concerned that a future 
administration could revive enforcement of the law. And so the "clear 
skies" plan was born, with support of the biggest and worst power 
polluters.  From the outset, the real goal has been to cut breaks for 
the biggest polluters-to postpone cleanup deadlines into the mid- 
2020s, to eliminate pesky provisions of current law and to take away 
states' rights that would permit a state attorney general like New 
York's Eliot Spitzer to enforce the law.  The Bush plan also would, 
in effect, grant coal-burning power companies a shield against calls 
for them to limit carbon dioxide emissions linked to global warming.


The White House has consistently misrepresented the "clear skies" 
plan since it was first unveiled three years ago. It claimed that the 
Clean Air Act must be changed to make further progress against air 
pollution.  [That administration lie was caught after EPA staffers 
leaked an agency PowerPoint presentation, which noted that "business 
as usual"-that is, enforcement of the existing Clean Air Act-would 
mean cleaner air more quickly than a rewrite of the law.] 

Carrying the administration's legislative spear in the Senate are 
James Inhofe, R-Okla.,-chairman of the Senate Environment and Public 
Works Committee, perhaps best known for declaring global warming a 
"hoax"-and George Voinovich, R-Ohio, whose home-state power companies 
desperately want to evade the cleanup requirements of existing law.


To date, the Inhofe committee has been deadlocked 9-9 as Sen. Lincoln 
Chafee, R-R.I.,  has joined Sen. Jim Jeffords, I-Vt.,  and the 
Democratic minority in opposing the Bush plan.  Efforts by the 
Republican majority to break the deadlock have taken on comic opera 
dimensions.

[Biofuel] Glyphosate Toxic & Roundup Worse

[Keith Addison]

Science Society Sustainability
http://www.i-sis.org.uk

ISIS Press Release 07/03/05

Glyphosate Toxic & Roundup Worse

Dr. Mae-Wan Ho and 
Prof. Joe Cummins call for urgent regulatory 
review of the most widely used herbicide in the light of new 
scientific evidence


New research findings are raising serious concerns over the safety of 
the most commonly used herbicide, and should be sending shockwaves 
through proponents of genetically modified (GM) crops made tolerant 
to the herbicide, which now account for 75% of all GM crops in the 
world.


Worse yet, the most common formulation of the herbicide is even more 
toxic than the herbicide by itself, and is made by the same biotech 
giant that created the herbicide tolerant GM crops.


Broad-spectrum herbicide glyphosate (N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine), 
commonly sold in the commercial formulation Roundup (Monsanto 
company, St. Louis, Missouri USA) has been frequently used both on 
crops and non-crops areas world wide since it was introduced in the 
1970s. Roundup is a combination of glyphosate with other chemicals 
including a surfactant (detergent) polyoxyethyleneamine that enhance 
the spreading of the spray droplets on the leaves of plants. The use 
of Roundup has gone up especially in countries growing 
Roundup-tolerant GM crops created by Monsanto.


Glyphosate kills plants by inhibiting the enzyme, 5-enolpyruvoyl- 
shikimate-3-phosphate synthetase (EPSPS), essential for the formation 
of aromatic amino acids such as phenylalanine, tyrosine and 
tryptophan; which leads onto vitamins and many secondary metabolites 
such as folates, ubiquinones and naphthoquines. It is believed to be 
rather specific in action and less toxic than other herbicides, 
because the shikimate pathway is not present in mammals and humans. 
However, glyphosate acts by preventing the binding of phosphoenol 
pyruvate to the active site of the enzyme, and phosphoenol pyruvate 
is a core metabolite present in all organisms; thus it has the 
potential to affect other metabolic pathways. This is borne out by 
many reports of toxicities associated with the herbicide reviewed in 
the Independent Science Panel Report, The Case for a GM-free Sustainable 
World [1].


An epidemiological study in the Ontario farming populations showed 
that glyphosate exposure nearly doubled the risk of late spontaneous 
abortions [2], and Prof. Eric-Giles Seralini and his research team 
from Caen University in France decided to find out more about the 
effects of the herbicide on cells from the human placenta.


They have now shown that glyphosate is toxic to human placental 
cells, killing a large proportion of them after 18 hr of exposure at 
concentrations below that in agricultural use [3]. Moreover, Roundup 
is always more toxic than its active ingredient, glyphosate; at least 
by two-fold. The effect increased with time, and was obtained with 
concentrations of Roundup 10 times lower than agricultural use.


The enzyme aromatase is responsible for making the female hormones 
estrogens from androgens (the male hormones). Glyphosate interacts 
with the active site of the enzyme but its effect on enzyme activity 
was minimal unless Roundup was present.


Interestingly, Roundup increased enzyme activity after 1 h of 
incubation, possibly because of its surfactant effect in making the 
androgen substrate more available to the enzyme. But at 18h 
incubation, Roundup invariably inhibited enzyme activity; the 
inhibition being associated with a decrease in mRNA synthesis, 
suggesting that Roundup decreased the rate of gene transcription. 
Seralini and colleagues suggest that other ingredients in the Roundup 
formulation enhance the availability or accumulation of glyphosate in 
cells.


There is, indeed, direct evidence that glyphosate inhibits RNA 
transcription in animals at a concentration well below the level that 
is recommended for commercial spray application Transcription was 
inhibited and embryonic development delayed in sea urchins following 
exposure to low levels of the herbicide and/or the surfactant 
polyoxyethyleneamine. The pesticide should be considered a health 
concern by inhalation during spraying [4].


New research shows that a brief exposure to commercial glyphosate 
caused liver damage in rats, as indicated by the leakage of 
intracellular liver enzymes. In this study, glyphosate and its 
surfactant in Roundup were also found to act in synergy to increase 
damage to the liver [5].


Three recent case-control studies suggested an association between 
glyphosate use and the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma [6-8]; while a 
prospective cohort study in Iowa and North Carolina that includes 
more than 54 315 private and commercial licensed pesticide 
applicators suggested a link between glyphosate use and multiple 
myoeloma [9]. Myeloma has been associated with agents that caus

[Biofuel] Multiple Uses of Forests

[Keith Addison]

Science Society Sustainability
http://www.i-sis.org.uk

ISIS Press Release 03/03/05

Multiple Uses of Forests

A global trend away from monoculture tree plantations towards 
multiple uses of native forests is good for conserving forest 
ecosystems, but progress is hampered by a dominant paradigm that 
treats forests like cornfields. Dr. 
Mae-Wan Ho


The sources for this article is posted on 
ISIS members' website. Details here


Diagrams and photographs will only appear in the printed version in 
the upcoming issue of Science in Society. Subscribe here


All commercial forests should be managed for multiple-use

Dr. Erkki LŠhde, Finland's foremost forestry scientist, is convinced 
that forests can no longer be divided into those focussing on timber 
production and others with multiple uses. Instead, all commercial 
forests, in Finland and elsewhere on our planet, should be treated 
with their multiple uses in mind, in order to sustain their ecology 
and biodiversity in a 'close-to-nature' state. Merely safeguarding 
the productivity of timber and pulp - in monoculture plantations - 
while preserving 'key biotopes' in their natural state is no longer 
considered sufficient for species conservation.


I met Dr. Erkki LŠhde very briefly while on a hectic lecture tour in 
Finland in November-December 2004 as guest of Finland's People's 
Biosafety Association, and immediately recognized the profound 
significance of his work.


The emphasis on multiple uses of commercial forests is particularly 
important for many indigenous peoples who have been an integral part 
of forest ecosystems for millennium; whose livelihoods are being 
threatened by deforestation, which includes replacing native forests 
with monoculture tree plantations.


Monoculture tree plantations are anathema to the biodiverse native 
forest ecosystems of the world. The United Nations Environment 
Programme (UNEP) estimated that about 60 percent, and possibly closer 
to 90 percent of all living species are found in tropical forests. 
Thus, adopting multiple uses of forests that can sustain their 
biodiversity is extremely significant for conserving the earth's 
species; and there has been a growing trend towards doing just that, 
though not quite fast enough.


Recent research in Mexico also shows that cacao and coffee-based 
agroforestry systems managed with low inputs by small holders harbour 
significant biodiversity compared to the monoculture plantations (see 
"Agroecology versus ecoagriculture", SiS 25).


A major obstacle is the prevailing paradigm that treats natural 
forests like cornfields


One major obstacle to adopting multiple uses of forests is the lack 
of a good model of the natural forest ecosystem. "The prevailing 
paradigm still treats natural forests as if they are cornfields," 
says LŠhde, "The entire stand is supposed to be destroyed at certain 
intervals by natural disturbances such as forest fires or storms. 
After that a new forest would grow from the saplings."


Based on that model, thinning and clear-cutting forests are routinely 
carried out to this day. The smallest and youngest trees and the 
under storey are cleared away, leaving uniform trees standing like 
"rows of carrots"; and when the trees are ready for harvesting, they 
are clear-cut, and the stock replaced. This is said to 'mimic' 
nature. More accurately, it is supposed that natural forests imitate 
their cultivated counterparts, producing stands of trees that are 
uniform in size or age.


However, when real forests are examined, they tell a very different 
tale; there are no uniform or even stands of trees. Instead, native 
forests - especially mature and long established forests - tend to 
have diverse, uneven-sized mixed stands.


Forest trees come in all sizes

Finland was the first country in the world to carry out a national 
forest inventory as early as the beginning of the 1920s. The 
inventories have since been repeated once every decade. Measuring 
tree diameter at breast height has been one of the ways to 
investigate forest stand structure. It fell to the lot of LŠhde and 
his research team to carry out the ninth inventory in the early 
1990s; and for the first time since inventory began in Finland, the 
distribution of stem diameters of the trees was published.


LŠhde went through the old inventory data for advanced and mature 
forests in Southern Finland for 1920s, 1950s and 1985. He found four 
possible distributions in the data: even or uniform sized, 
two-storeyed, "moundy uneven-sized" (normal distribution), and 
"regularly all-sized" (see Fig. 1). The vast majority of advanced and 
mature forests had the "regularly all-sized" distribution. This was 
also true of data from the Swedish National Forest Inventory.


Fig 1. Different distributions of tree sizes and their percenta

[Biofuel] Terminator Trees

[Keith Addison]

Science Society Sustainability
http://www.i-sis.org.uk

ISIS Press Release 02/03/05

Terminator Trees

Sterile GM trees cannot contain transgenes, instead, they raise 
special safety concerns for health and biodiversity 
Prof. Joe Cummins and 
Dr. Mae-Wan Ho


A fully referenced version of 
this article is posted on ISIS membersâ website. Details here


Transgenic or genetically modified (GM) trees have been tested 
extensively in large open plots with little concern over the spread 
of transgenes. Studies on the dispersal of pollen and seeds from 
forest trees have shown that gene-flow can be measured in kilometres. 
It is clear that the transgenes from GM trees cannot be contained 
once released into the environment. For that reason, a great deal of 
effort has been devoted to developing genetic modifications - 
commonly referred to as terminator techniques - that prevent 
flowering or pollen production.


In view of the serious threats posed by GM forest trees to the forest 
ecosystems of the world (see "GM 
forest trees - the ultimate threat", this series), commercial release 
of transgenic trees is widely rejected unless strict containment of 
transgenes can be assured, it is hoped, through engineering such 
'terminator trees'.


For the most part, the methods used to control flowering or 
pollination involved interfering with the genetic programme for 
floral development or for deleting cells involved in floral 
development. A group of genes - MADS-box genes - code for the protein 
transcription factors that recognize DNA binding domains (See 
"View from MADS house", this 
series). The plant MADS genes are related to the extensively studied 
animal homeotic (HOX) genes that regulate developmental pathways. 
Unraveling the functions of MADS genes has allowed flower development 
to be manipulated.


Flowering is prevented by anti-sense genes, or small regulatory RNA 
to prevent active gene products such as the MADS box transcription 
factor from being formed. Also deployed is a kind of genetic abortion 
using a suicide gene. The preferred suicide gene is the barnase 
ribonuclease from the soil bacterium Bacillus amylolquefaciens. The 
ribonuclease is placed under the control of a promoter specific to 
floral or pollen development. When activated, the gene product 
effectively kills the cells in which the gene is expressed. Another 
suicide gene used is the diphtheria toxin from the bacterium 
Cornyebacterium diphtheria or related ADP-Ribosyltransferase toxins 
from other bacteria; but these toxin genes are less commonly used 
than the barnase gene. The preferred barnase gene is a part of the 
genetic construction that first attracted the label "terminator" for 
engineered sterility, designed to place seed production under 
corporate control.


Professor Steven Strauss of Oregon State University pioneered flower 
and pollen control in poplar. He and his colleagues have led in the 
area of flowering control in forest trees. Strauss pointed out that 
when complete floral sterility is achieved, the plant would require 
vegetative propagation. Floral sterility has begun to be extended 
from poplar to shade trees. Strauss has argued that management of GM 
poplar is comparable to conventional poplar even though he is well 
aware of the seed and pollen dispersal with transgenic poplar. Along 
with the exploration of floral sterility, Strauss has investigated 
speeding flower development (trees normally take years to develop 
sexually) to allow rapid breeding and selection cycles. Of course the 
rapid breeding cycle is fraught with uncertainty regarding the 
subsequent development of the mature tree. Strauss has pioneered the 
use of the poplar homologue to the floral MADS box genes, the poplar 
promoter gene PTD. The PTD promoter was combined with the 
diphtheria-toxin gene, DTA, to produce sterile polar without the 
detrimental effects on yield encountered earlier. The problem of 
somaclonal variation is hardly mentioned in the discussion of flower 
control in poplar even though the problem was discussed in a report 
on a four-year field trial of herbicide tolerant poplar carried out 
by the Strauss group. Somaclonal variation results from the cell 
culture technique used to select and propagate transgenic plants. It 
results in extremely high levels of mutation and chromosome 
instability, which could reverse floral sterility. Earlier reports 
showed that poplar cell culture resulted in extremely high levels of 
somaclonal variation.


In Finland, investigators from Sopanen University have studied the 
control of flowering in silver birch. Those investigators identified 
the MADS box genes controlling flowering in the birch tree. When a 
flower specific birch promoter gene BpMADS1 was use

Re: [Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[Keith Addison]

make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???

thanx, kenn


See:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041227/004092.html
[Biofuel] More hybrid technology news

Follow the links.

Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel

[John Wilson]

engine it is possible to have a
>non-interference design. To get the
 >high compression there is VERY little space at >TDC. I don't think there
is
>any way to design around
>that. If the valves were recessed into the head
>then  there would be more space underneath them.

(Reply)
Hi Eric,
 I used to believe that until VW introduced the new TDI. I always
thought that the working pressure in a diesel engine had to be high to get
performance and mileage then VW introduced the TDI and had to drop the
working pressure in the cylinder to make it work. They still keep the TDI as
an intergrated engine. They also incresed the performance and mileage with
the TDI over the high pressure 97 VW golf that I drive. So is an intergrated
engine for "performance" or is it for "selling parts". It also could be the
case that it has been so easy producing  the "intergrated engine" that
thought to producing a non intergrated engine  is non existant.
The Belarus diesel has a manufactured hole in the piston that is 3.75 cm by
2.75 cm deep and it works fine. Because the intergrated design is so easy
engineers may not have looked at alternatives in septh, such as designing
the valve properly so that space needed for the valve to work is minimal by
shortning up the valve stem, changing the valve cam so the valve opens
faster and stays fully open slighltly longer to ehaust or feed the cylinder.
I am not saying that any of this is possible but the TDI did start the
thought process that it might be possible.

Yours truly
John Wilson
Goldens
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)

Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
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Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm


In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.


^^^
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[Biofuel] possible to have a diesel hybrid?

[goldma]

with the popularity of gas hybrids, i was wondering if it's possible to
make a diesl hybrid? anyone know if it's being considered/designed???

thanx, kenn

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Re: [Biofuel] What is factory farming?

[Phillip Wolfe]

The San Joaquin Valley California lands and farms are
facing the same issues - urban pressure.  May we look
at other countries for some examples of how family
farms survived over many many generations?  Perhaps
others on this listserv can provide examples.  For
example, the California Yokut indigenous tribes of
Califonria survied for thousands of years in the
Central Valley basin of California.  Is it fair to
compare their ability to sustain over multiple
generations by living with nature VS the modern
society of mixed urban and agriculture and material
gain vs. other? 

http://bss.sfsu.edu/calstudies/NativeWebPages/yokut%20page.html

Respectfully Submitted
Phillip Wolfe


--- Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I have been thinking about the problems with factory
> farms vs sustainable 
> farms.  I appears, to me at least, that the debate
> has an erroneous 
> assumption; that all large farms are factory and
> that most small farms are 
> sustainable.  This is totally false.  I have seen
> some small 5 to 7 acre 
> homesteads that can outdo any large farm for
> pollution.  The worst 
> offenders I have seen are the people who raise ducks
> and geese, by the 
> hundreds on a couple of acres.  I have also seen a
> 5000 acre farm, farmed 
> by 3 generations of a family that is moving steadily
> towards true 
> sustainability.  Incorporating the use of chicken
> tractors for fertility, 
> goats for weed control and other measure to nurture
> the land of a huge 
> dairy and beef cattle farm.  As more and more
> intentional communities are 
> formed, we are seeing more and more large
> sustainable farms.  It has become 
> clear that we need to look beyond the size and
> output of a farm to decide 
> what type it actually is.
> 
> Bright Blessigns,
> Kim
> 
> ___
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> 
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> 




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Re: [Biofuel] Re: factory farms vs. big cities

[Phillip Wolfe]

Mike - I advocate a solutions approach discussed on
this listserv.

Farming 
In the San Joaquin Valley California there are
counties that contain the largest concentration of
dairy farms in the United States.  Much research is
being done to assist small family dairy farms, medium
sized dairy farms, large dairy farms, and corporate
diary farms to ameliorate the liquid, solid, and air
pollutants the eminate from the dairy farm process
into the San Joaquin Valley biosphere.  Please see:

http://www.eco-farm.org/sa/sa_dairy_synopsis_digester.html

The gentlemen listed in above link is Allen Dusault of
Sustainable Conservation. I met Allen during my energy
conservation work in San Francisco while conducting
plans to introduce cogeneration to the dairy farms in
the Central Valley. I discovered that Allen has a keen
national perspective of farming conservation, farm
waste issues, and how it ties into municipal waste
issues in the United States.  In my opinion, Allen is
quite dedicated and understands the challenges of
small vs large vs let's look at solutions.

Municipal Waste
During my energy conservation career we worked on many
projects to promote energy conservation and efficient
municipal waste systems - fine bubble diffusion,
cogeneration, solar, etc.  I visited many old sewer
plants and  modern waste treatment facilities.  From a
practical point of view I noticed several things 1)
the local general populace needed better education on
the crucial role the waste treatment plant plays in
their community 2)How the populace impacts the plants
and continuing understanding the differences between
storm drain and treatment plant systems 4) The
tremendous amount or money it takes to build and run a
regional municipal system.

With all the said there is certainly oppotunity for
improvement.  I took a statistical survey of ALL 3,000
municipal treatment plans in the State of California
with the permission of their governing body.   The
statisical survey was for my graduate degree
statistics program.  If you would like, I will look in
my old files and post the results.

These are my field experiences summarized but I have
many moren notes in my field journal.

Personal Notes
Mike - Please note that this was earlier in my career
and worked from an industrial point of view. It was
later that I became exposed to deeper principles of
energy conservation, biofuel, and sustainability.  I
am always challenged when I start my car and take my
kids to school in the morning. Could I take a bus? How
about asking them to walk as I did in my youth? What
about the migrants coming to California who seek a
better life, new cars, homes, etc?  It is always a
challenge for me to balance.

Respectfully submitted,
Phillip Wolfe


--- Phillip Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike - I am at work and will send email later
> tonight
> Pacific Standard Time.  
> 
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Phillip.
> > 
> > I would like to know about this. I have no
> > experience with municiple waste handling, but I
> have
> > lived in the farm belt all of my life and know how
> > hard small family farmers work to manage their
> waste
> > streams.
> > 
> > The problem I see with urban sprawl is the attempt
> > to utilize the same waste handling solutions that
> > cities use. When our township tried to setup a
> waste
> > water district, where several rural homes would
> > connect their septic tanks to a common drain
> field,
> > the state disallowed it. All of the home owners
> were
> > required to become annexed to the city and join
> the
> > municiple waste water treament system.
> > 
> > But like I said, I do not know the details of each
> > system.
> > 
> > Mikem
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:02:54 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Phillip Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] factory farms vs. large
> > cities
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Message-ID:
> >
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > 
> > Mike - interesting comments. Earlier in my career,
> I
> > worked as a Field Energy Engineer and was assigned
> > beef, poultry, dairy market sector including
> > Abattoirs, Slaughterhouses, Meat Packers, Poultry
> > Farms, et al. I also handled the sewage and water
> > treatment market sector for about six years.
> > 
> > It was interesting experience. I visited all these
> > facilities inside and out. 
> > 
> > I can provide additional comment if needed.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > 
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > 
> > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> > 
> 
> 
>   
>   
> __ 
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> http://birthday.yahoo.com/netros

[Biofuel] Stainless Steel Tanks and Reactors Salvage

[Kevin Shea]

http://www.jlmercer.com/Reac_Pres.asp

I found the above site while looking for tanks.  I must openly confess...,  the 
railroad car-size tanks may be too large for my "under-the-porch" biodiesel 
setup!

Thought some folks may be interested?




Thank you, 
Kevin Shea
Beacon, New York USA
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[Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way

[John Wilson]

Hi,
I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream
seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it
through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water  from the WVO. Also
going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that
there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki.
WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely
redicilous.
Yours truly
John Wilson
Goldens
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)

Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm
  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm


In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM .
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.


^^^


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RE: [Biofuel] Latest Consumer Reports

[John Wilson]

http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel

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Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...

[desertstallion]

Hi,
I think it varies by feedstock, but my understanding is that there is slightly 
less energy per volume of veg oil/biodiesel. Therefore, when you switch to veg 
oil/biodiesel from regular diesel the mileage per gallon drops slightly...it 
doesn't improve. But, the fuel is better environmentally and should be cheaper. 
Even if the engine uses a bit more per mile, overall it should still be cheaper 
than regular diesel.
Most of these trucks are geared low and that is why the mileage is dismal. I 
had a friend who consistently got over 20 mpg with the same truck you have. 
But, he had added a Gearvendors overdrive unit. I have a 1987 F-350 with the 
International 6.9 NA Diesel engine. When I bought it, it was only getting 12 
mpg due to a low differential. I put in a Gearvendors overdrive unit and the 
RPMs dropped by 500 for a given speed and it got an additional 5 mpg. It now 
consistently gives 17 mpg.
Derek

 -- Original message --
From: "Busyditch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Go here for some stats
> http://www.greasel.com/News.html

> - Original Message - 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...
> 
> 
> >
> > I have a 1995 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummings diesel.  It has 250,000 miles
> on it. I bought it used.  I get 15-17 MPG out of it on regular diesel.  I
> thought these engines got better mileage.  What do you get?
> > I have not tried bio-diesel yet.  I will install a in-line fuel filter in
> the spring and try some.
> > Farmer Paul
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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[Biofuel] Methane to LPG car

[bioteo]

I have an old petrol car (75 mercedes 230.4) converted to LPG recently.
But In the last few months the price of LPG has started to rise. I am
wondering if it is possible to use methane instead of LPG?

I have a fridge compressor that I can compress the methane in to tanks,
the could I just connect the tank instead of the LPG tank?

Could somebody tell me if this is doable with ease or would I need to
further convert the engine.

Thanks
Teoman
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[Biofuel] What is factory farming?

[Kim & Garth Travis]

I have been thinking about the problems with factory farms vs sustainable 
farms.  I appears, to me at least, that the debate has an erroneous 
assumption; that all large farms are factory and that most small farms are 
sustainable.  This is totally false.  I have seen some small 5 to 7 acre 
homesteads that can outdo any large farm for pollution.  The worst 
offenders I have seen are the people who raise ducks and geese, by the 
hundreds on a couple of acres.  I have also seen a 5000 acre farm, farmed 
by 3 generations of a family that is moving steadily towards true 
sustainability.  Incorporating the use of chicken tractors for fertility, 
goats for weed control and other measure to nurture the land of a huge 
dairy and beef cattle farm.  As more and more intentional communities are 
formed, we are seeing more and more large sustainable farms.  It has become 
clear that we need to look beyond the size and output of a farm to decide 
what type it actually is.


Bright Blessigns,
Kim

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Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?

[R Del Bueno]

I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. 
Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a 
centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble 
into a good deal on one).


I know some folks are using some vacuum setups to lower the boiling point, 
and using flash evaporators and or thin film evaporators, but I wonder if 
it is needed.


(As a side question...how much more efficient is a vacuum assisted 
evaporator from a total energy usage standpoint, than just heat, after all 
one must use energy to create the vacuum?)


There still seems to be some debate over how dry the oil needs to be.

For WVO/SVO fuel systems, I am not positive that small quantities of water 
are all that problematic...after all there are water injection systems out 
there, and a few companies that sell diesel /water emulsifiers in order to 
suspend water into diesel fuel as a method of altering combustion 
temperature to reduce NOX emissions. So from a combustion standpoint..seems 
that small amounts of water will simply turn to steam.


Free water over time can collect in the fuel system and cause freeze 
issues, and corrode internal components of injection systems...but if you 
are running a dual tank WVO system, switching back to diesel prior to 
shutdown, there should not be water sitting in the injection system.


Does a small amount of water affect the lubricity value of the 
WVO?..perhaps..but with the initial lubricity of WVO being so high, I 
suspect there is a bit of room to play.


So far I have been running 10 micron filtered gravity settled oil (about a 
week at around 70degF) with a heated waterblock type filter in vehicle. 
Very little, if any water collects in the clear bowl. I have yet to run 
into any problems that indicate water problems...but only topping out at 
around 10k miles..so nothing definitive.


I understand the need to dry WVO for biodiesel production, but wonder how 
needed it is for straight WVO as fuel.


-Rob

At 08:30 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote:






Hello to all:
I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use.  I filter 
it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved
in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content?  Is there a simple 
method of removing moisture?  I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C.

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Re: [Biofuel] Diesel history

[Hakan Falk]

He got the chance to develop his high compression engine, with grants from 
the coal industry. They financed him for development of an engine that 
could utilize the large amount of coal dust that was gathering as waste 
around the mines. He failed, but could instead demonstrate a prototype that 
could run on vegetable oils. In his demonstration of the engine at the 
world exhibition, he used peanut oil as fuel.


Hakan


At 01:05 PM 3/9/2005, you wrote:

http://www.ybiofuels.org/bio_fuels/history_diesel.html



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Re: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms

[Kim & Garth Travis]

Actually, we are not hypocrites, but totally aware of what it takes to get 
factory meat to the table.  People who name their animals generally treat 
their animals in a reasonable fashion.  I am not going into details of how 
bad the factory process is this early in the morning, but there are far too 
many reported cases of animals being skinned alive, being forced to walk on 
broken legs and other tortures to support this kind of processing.  Not to 
mention the feedlots and other disgusting tactics that are used on the poor 
animals.


My animals are raised to be food.  That is why I have them.  This does not 
stop me from scratching their ears, petting them and making their life as 
wonderful as possible while they are alive.  I also thank each one of them 
for the gift of their life energy, before we kill them.  This is not 
hypocrisy, but reality.  I do not send my animals out to be slaughtered 
because I do not like the way the local processor treats the animals.  I am 
taking responsibility for my food.


Bright Blessings,
Kim

At 08:27 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote:

on 3/8/05 5:30 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



> Yes, we turn vegetarian in public.  Our rule, if I don't
> know its name, I am not eating it.
>


I dunno -- sounds a little hypocritical (tho in general I
like your stuff. I'll think about this longer). Why eat
your friends at all? I have 13 birdies, and I eat chicken
or turkey maybe twice a week -- an I feel Sh**ty about it.
As soon as it's not PUT in front of me, I won't. It's so
wasteful, and each of those birdies would've PREFERRED to
live longer, even if they WERE conscientiously DISPATCHED.

-K


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[Biofuel] Diesel history

[Busyditch]

http://www.ybiofuels.org/bio_fuels/history_diesel.html

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[Biofuel] Mysterious death of Rudolph Diesel

[Busyditch]

Uh Oh- Looks like Rudolf Diesel might have been murdered due to his wish to
give Diesel engines to all of Europe, thus levelling the field of submarine
technology.


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RE: [Biofuel] Re: Mileage on diesel trucks...

[Chris Lloyd]

> Just wondering if anyone has any specs on mpg for diesel pickups when
using biodiesel? Specifically the Cummins 5.7l Turbo diesels in the
Dodge pickups. Does the mileage drastically increase over diesel? I
found mpg for regular diesel, but not too much on biodiesel. <

I remember a UK TV program about 10 years ago quoting research from SA
saying if they ran their all diesel equipment on straight sunflower oil
they would only increased their fuel consumption by 10%.  Chris.  



 


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Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...

[Busyditch]

Go here for some stats
http://www.greasel.com/News.html
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...


>
> I have a 1995 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummings diesel.  It has 250,000 miles
on it. I bought it used.  I get 15-17 MPG out of it on regular diesel.  I
thought these engines got better mileage.  What do you get?
> I have not tried bio-diesel yet.  I will install a in-line fuel filter in
the spring and try some.
> Farmer Paul
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

I have a 1995 3/4 ton Dodge with a Cummings diesel.  It has 250,000 miles on 
it. I bought it used.  I get 15-17 MPG out of it on regular diesel.  I thought 
these engines got better mileage.  What do you get?
I have not tried bio-diesel yet.  I will install a in-line fuel filter in the 
spring and try some.
Farmer Paul
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Biofuel] Bad news for Diesel driver

[Erik Lane]

I don't believe that with the high compressions required of a diesel
engine it is possible to have a non-interference design. To get the
high compression there is VERY little space at TDC. I don't think
there is any way to design around that. If the valves were recessed
into the head then there would be more space underneath them.

The proportion of displaceable space (where the piston travels) to
non-displaceable (everywhere else) has to be very high (20:1 or maybe
22:1) to get this compression. That doesn't leave much of a
possibility to play with.

I don't think in this matter there's any way to blame the engineers. I
could be wrong, but I would be shocked to hear if anyone has any
evidence that a diesel engine was non-interference. (Tho come to think
of it, some of those lower compression super low rpm old time boat
diesels might be that way.)

Erik


On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:29:12 -0400, John  Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Audi, Honda, Volvo, VW  and others have been >using interference designs
> for over 25 years. In >fact, most high compression engines are
> >interference designs.
> (Reply)
> Well why not! It is a great way to sell parts, make profit and burn fossil
> fuel.. It would change if there was proper consumer legislation and the
> offending companies had to pay the repair bill when engines designed with
> interference, interfered.
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[Biofuel] Re: A timely reminder from Ben Franklin

[Anti-Fossil]

Kenneth,

Please excuse the intrusion into your conversation.

I found both the spirit of your post, as well as the content, timely and
refreshing, and I wanted to say thanks.  It reminded me of some rules I have
that could use a little dusting off right about now.  I'm not exactly sure
when it happened, but somewhere along the way, I to went from clueless,
ignorant young knucklehead to Mr.. fix-it, super-dad, I know-everything.
The thing I am most thankful for about all that nonsense is that evolution
continues!
Anyway, thanks again, great post!


AntiFossil
Mike Krafka  USA


- Original Message - 
From: "Kenneth Kron (CEO)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Re: A timely reminder from Ben Franklin


>Bo,
>I wanted to say thanks for you thoughtful and well informed postings.
>I think it behooves all of us to realize when we're hearing each
>others ego and not each others spirit.  I believe it happens to us all
>and of course we never sound to ourselves the way we sound to those we
>are communicating with, Ben Franklin and Richard Moon are a couple of
>my models in the area of communicating.
>Here's what Ben had so say from
>[1]http://earlyamerica.com/lives/franklin/chapt8/
>My list of virtues contained at first but twelve; but a Quaker friend
>having kindly informed me that I was generally thought proud; that my
>pride show'd itself frequently in conversation; that I was not content
>with being in the right when discussing any point, but was
>overbearing, and rather insolent, of which he convinc'd me by
>mentioning several instances; I determined endeavouring to cure
>myself, if I could, of this vice or folly among the rest, and I added
>Humility to my list) giving an extensive meaning to the word.
>I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the reality of this
>virtue, but I had a good deal with regard to the appearance of it. I
>made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments
>of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself,
>agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or
>expression in the language that imported a fix'd opinion, such as
>certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I
>conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so; or it so
>appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I
>thought an error, I deny'd myself the pleasure of contradicting him
>abruptly, and of showing immediately some absurdity in his
>proposition; and in answering I began by observing that in certain
>cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present
>case there appear'd or seem'd to me some difference, etc. I soon found
>the advantage of this change in my manner; the conversations I engag'd
>in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I propos'd my
>opinions procur'd them a readier reception and less contradiction; I
>had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more
>easily prevail'd with others to give up their mistakes and join with
>me when I happened to be in the right.


>Kenneth Kron
>President Bay Area Biofuel
>[2]http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone: 415-867-8067
>What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it!
>Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
>[4]Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
>
> References
>
>1. http://earlyamerica.com/lives/franklin/chapt8/
>2. http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/
>3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust
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Re: [Biofuel] Factory farms vs. large cities

[Keith Addison]

I think you're responding to the wrong message, it should have been 
this one from Kim, not my reply to Doug:


http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050307/006623.html
[Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms

Aw, come on guys! Please don't try to turn me into a cardboard 
stereotypical idiot; I don't appreciate it.


I do believe it's you who's been doing the stereotyping, and you 
haven't stopped yet. It started with your stereotyping livestock 
farmers, though you're one yourself - an exception, you say, yet you 
refuse to allow for exceptions.


Kim, where on earth did I ever say anyone who raises animals for 
meat is like a slaveholder???


Here:

I appreciate your concern about blanket condemnations, but once 
again, would you say "don't condemn all slaveholders; many are 
small plantations who treat their slaves decently?"


It's a poor comparison, as what you say below of your own practices 
demonstrates.


It was indeed a poor comparison.


I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when I need to.


Do you treat them decently?

And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and your husband do 
NOT FACTORY FARM!


Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its 
original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez, I'm 
a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are 
factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your 
husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself.


But you did, and if Kim hadn't questioned you, I would have. You said this:

To answer your question, Keith, my organization, Carolina Biodiesel 
Inc (www.carolinabiodiesel.org) has already discussed and made 
official policy that we would not morally be able to use animal 
waste as a feedstock no matter how cheap it was or who else was 
doing it. We decided we did not want to benefit from the back door 
of factory farming, even if it meant we could no longer compete 
with other producers. wrong is wrong.


No exclusion for farmers who do it properly - no animal wastes, 
that's that, because factory farms are evil.


I'm not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to 
be getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family 
farms such as yours.


Why do you keep saying "millions of gallons"? What difference does 
the quantity make?  How about 10 gallons? Or a hundred, even a 
thousand? All feasible quantities for local producers sourcing from 
local family farms, or for local family farms to use as a feedstock 
themselves. But Bo says no, it's wrong, so maybe we'd better not - he 
didn't say anything about family farms with humane practices, so 
let's not risk it.


You're obscuring the original point of this e-mail dialogue, which 
was about huge quantities of animal wastes, not a gallon from a goat.


You have stated that you will not use animal waste as a feedstock, 
whether it's in huge quantities or a gallon from a goat is not 
relevant because you insist on a blanket condemnation. And you are 
ignoring several good points that have been made, labelling it as 
defensive doesn't defuse them. AND you are insulting, though nobody 
insulted you:


And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts -- 
no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve.


If you say so, I've never seen a talk show host so I wouldn't know. 
What I say is that it's kind of strange that you see it in terms of 
winners and losers, but it makes you a sore one. I really don't care 
who wins or who loses - you play that game and there are no winners, 
everyone loses. Anyway, who's counting, vicar? I've never kept any 
track of who comes out better, I just don't see it that way, that's 
not what we're doing here. I've said this before: "I don't have time 
for personal issues, I'm not interested in the personalities involved 
- not even mine, certainly not yours. I run the list like I've run 
newspapers in the past (always with success), and you don't do that 
by getting hung up on personalities or insisting on your own "view"." 
Believe it or not. And it's not my listserve, it belongs to its 
membership, I'm just the driver.


In each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even 
when we were saying practically the same thing.


Practically? I think not. Almost, perhaps, at times, but there were 
critical differences, and I was quite clear about them. It's an 
important issue that I'm much involved in and I'm not about to go 
along with something I don't agree with just in case there might be 
an oversensitive soul around who might feel chided by it. (And then 
accuses other people of being defensive.)



I'm not interested in wasting my time with banter and petty argument.


This is a petty argument?

But Kim is right. Unless you add some such proviso to your 
exclusion, your blanket condemnation could indeed harm the good 
guys. For one thing, though you might be well aware of the 
difference, you shouldn't pres

[Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?

[Joe . Guthrie]

Hello to all:
I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use.  I filter it and 
it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved
in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content?  Is there a simple method 
of removing moisture?  I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C.
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Re: [Biofuel] Mileage on diesel trucks...

[ardis streeter]

--- detached <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has any specs on mpg for
> diesel pickups when
> using biodiesel? Specifically the Cummins 5.7l Turbo
> diesels in the Dodge
> pickups. Does the mileage drastically increase over
> diesel? I found mpg
> for regular diesel, but not too much on biodiesel.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> HI , I am in the process of building a fairly large
biodiesel fuel processor and saw an article in Farm
Show magazine where some guys put a diesel engine from
a Belerius Tractor in a full sized pickup. The engine
got 30 to 40 miles per gallon of fuel used, much
better than any auto manufacturer is building today!If
anyone is interested just let me know. Thanks, Duff
Streeter at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBDmaking?]

[eric drumm]

Hello, 
If this is any help, on page five of this article there is a list of natural
antioxidants, along with synthetics.  The article also has some good
definitions and explanations used in the oil/fat industry.

http://www.darlingii.com/pdffiles/2002%20Rendered%20Fats%20in%20Animal%20Fee
d.pdf

Good day,

Eric
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Keith Addison
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice
forBDmaking?]

Hello again Greg

>I probably asked for that, for not being a little more explicit.
>
>We all know they are common additives in food, but, to my knowledge I can
>not just go down to the local food mart and but, a couple of pounds /
>gallons or what ever they are sold as - unless they are sold under another
>name and ( again to my knowledge ) they are not something that can be made
>by someone that wants to be self-sufficient.
>
>Greg H.

I was told this:

"Edible oil manufacturers make use of
synthetic vitamins for this matter, the oil industry keeps its substances a
secret. It's not vitamins for sure, because the additions are 200-
300 ppm volumetric."

FYI.

Best wishes

Keith


>- Original Message -
>From: "John Hayes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 08:44
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice forBD
>making?]
>
>
> > Greg Harbican wrote:
> > > Know of any good anti-oxidants that are readily available?
> > >
> > > The reason I ask, is that it might not be a bad idea to use some with
> > > mystery  oil.
> >
> > BHA (Butylated hydroxyanisole), BHT (Butylated hydroxytoluene), and TBHQ
> > (Tertiary Butyl Hydroquinone) are all food grade antioxidants that are
> > readily available.

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[Biofuel] Re: Mileage on diesel trucks...

[David Thornton]

averaging 17.5. My mix varies, but I've noticed no difference in mpg 
compared to fossil D. 


Just wondering if anyone has any specs on mpg for diesel pickups when
using biodiesel? Specifically the Cummins 5.7l Turbo diesels in the Dodge
pickups. Does the mileage drastically increase over diesel? I found mpg
for regular diesel, but not too much on biodiesel. 



Thanks!



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[Biofuel] Re: A timely reminder from Ben Franklin

[Kenneth Kron (CEO)]

   Bo,
   I wanted to say thanks for you thoughtful and well informed postings.
   I think it behooves all of us to realize when we're hearing each
   others ego and not each others spirit.  I believe it happens to us all
   and of course we never sound to ourselves the way we sound to those we
   are communicating with, Ben Franklin and Richard Moon are a couple of
   my models in the area of communicating.
   Here's what Ben had so say from
   [1]http://earlyamerica.com/lives/franklin/chapt8/
   My list of virtues contained at first but twelve; but a Quaker friend
   having kindly informed me that I was generally thought proud; that my
   pride show'd itself frequently in conversation; that I was not content
   with being in the right when discussing any point, but was
   overbearing, and rather insolent, of which he convinc'd me by
   mentioning several instances; I determined endeavouring to cure
   myself, if I could, of this vice or folly among the rest, and I added
   Humility to my list) giving an extensive meaning to the word.
   I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the reality of this
   virtue, but I had a good deal with regard to the appearance of it. I
   made it a rule to forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments
   of others, and all positive assertion of my own. I even forbid myself,
   agreeably to the old laws of our Junto, the use of every word or
   expression in the language that imported a fix'd opinion, such as
   certainly, undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted, instead of them, I
   conceive, I apprehend, or I imagine a thing to be so or so; or it so
   appears to me at present. When another asserted something that I
   thought an error, I deny'd myself the pleasure of contradicting him
   abruptly, and of showing immediately some absurdity in his
   proposition; and in answering I began by observing that in certain
   cases or circumstances his opinion would be right, but in the present
   case there appear'd or seem'd to me some difference, etc. I soon found
   the advantage of this change in my manner; the conversations I engag'd
   in went on more pleasantly. The modest way in which I propos'd my
   opinions procur'd them a readier reception and less contradiction; I
   had less mortification when I was found to be in the wrong, and I more
   easily prevail'd with others to give up their mistakes and join with
   me when I happened to be in the right.
   Bo Lozoff wrote:

 Aw, come on guys! Please don't try to turn me into a cardboard
 stereotypical idiot; I don't appreciate it. Kim, where on earth did
 I ever say anyone who raises animals for meat is like a
 slaveholder??? I said I raise animals too, and eat their meat when
 I need to. And I ALSO said factory farming is evil, and you and
 your husband do NOT FACTORY FARM!
 Just leave it alone, okay? You're twisting this all out of its
 original context and fighting a battle that doesn't exist. Jeez,
 I'm a farmer, for God's sake. Factory farms are not farms, they are
 factories. I have never said anything that lumps you and your
 husband into all of that, so please stop defending yourself. I'm
 not your enemy. And I repeat, no biodiesel producer is going to be
 getting millions of gallons of lard or tallow from humane family
 farms such as yours. You're obscuring the original point of this
 e-mail dialogue, which was about huge quantities of animal wastes,
 not a gallon from a goat.
 And Keith, you remind me a little of one of the talk show hosts --
 no one ever comes out better than you on your own listserve. In
 each of our exchanges you found a way to chide me a little even
 when we were saying practically the same thing. I'm not interested
 in wasting my time with banter and petty argument. Punch my name up
 on Google and you'll see that I'm one of the good guys just like
 you. Stop trying to make me wrong and we'll get along a lot better.
 This is my last entry into this beef (excuse the pun).
 Bo Lozoff

   --

   Kenneth Kron
   President Bay Area Biofuel
   [2]http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Phone: 415-867-8067
   What you can do, or dream you can do, begin it!
   Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
   [4]Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

References

   1. http://earlyamerica.com/lives/franklin/chapt8/
   2. http://www.bayareabiofuel.com/
   3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faust
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RE: [Biofuel] Latest Consumer Reports

[1michaelf]

Many are sheep, the question is who are going be be the ones 
that lead them until they can lead themselves.  :))
http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com
 Tim Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
 
=
Hello Keith,

I hope this finds you and Midori doing well.



>>Rely on the government to fix our problems??? No Thank You! The
>>government is again a symptom of the American Mind-set. The U.S.
>>government is so often accused of catering to big business. And
>>rightly so...but that is still just a symptom. Those big
>>corporations don't care about anything but their profits and their
>>profits come from the *ravenous* appetite that *most* Americans
>>have for consumer goods.

>I'd say it's the other way round - that mindset of insatiable
>consumerism is largely or entirely a creation of the corporate sector
>and its immense PR efforts over the last half century and more, and
>especially the last two or three decades.

I have to agree with you regarding the immense PR efforts of the corporations. 
The largest portion of my mail and email is junk/spam
resulting from the PR efforts of corporations. Our beautiful nation is littered 
with billboards. And radio and television are
consumed with advertisements. Yet I would like to believe that Americans do 
have a mind of their own and can choose to act on the
corporate PR or ignore it as I and my family do. It's this will to ignore the 
PR which I think can change the demand for the
products/lifestyles that the corporations are pushing. And if people will stop 
responding to their PR, it will decrease as a result
of lower profits per advertisement mechanisms. In addition, the weakaning of 
the Big corporations by greatly reduced demand will in
turn reduce their influence on the government.IMO.

Even though I believe that the average American has the ability and 
responsablity to make or break corporations by applying the laws
of supply and demand we must still hold our government accountable. The effort 
to make life better and equatable for all must be
done by all means available.

>Has the American public (not all, as you say, I'm not sure if it's
>even "most") always had this mindset? No.

I can't say with all assurity that "most" Americans have adopted this mindset 
but I can certainly speak to this from a sampling of
where I live. 20 years ago I moved onto the family land. It is on a road 
approximately 5 miles long. At that time there were 8 farms
houses and farms on the road (mine being one of them). Back then there was very 
little traffic on the road and we all had our
pickups and farm tractors to work the farms. All of the houses were of modest 
size comparable to mine. Today there are only two
small farms left. Mine and one other. When the older farmers died their 
children did'nt want to work the farms. They saw the
opportunity to make a lot of quick money selling the land to developers for 
housing and industry. Over the last five years there
have been over 400 houses built on the once beautiful farmland. And these 
houses are huge. To give you an example one of the new
neighbors kids is friends with my son. He is an only child. He and his parents 
live alone in a 3,200 square foot home with two SUV's
parked in the driveway. And that is typical of all the homes being built in my 
area. And this same thing is happening everywhere
around me. So, no I can't say for sure that "most" Americans have this mindset 
- but most of those moving in around me sure do.


>Has the corporate sector always had this mindset? -
>>Those big
>>corporations don't care about anything but their profits and their
>>profits come from the *ravenous* appetite that *most* Americans
>>have for consumer goods.

>Yes. Greedy, dissatisfied and discontented, sel-centred and
>dependent, that's how they like us to be. Government? Why would they
>object? It sure suits them too.

>>It is on a base level simply a fact of supply and demand. If the
>>American people will change their
>>*synthetic* appetites to *organic* appetites and learn to live content lives

>How can you be content with that ceaseless barrage of advertising
>being hurled at you? $100 billion a year (and the rest!), and its
>sole purpose is to make you discontented - the be contented you
>"need" something you don't have. It doesn't take too long before it's
>a deeply ingrained habit to think that way.

I think maybe I should explain more of what I mean by I am content. I am 
content mentally, physically, and spiritually. My life is
in balance and my needs and the needs of my family are met. I certainly want to 
improve my families efforts for reducing our impact
on the environment and increasing our self sufficency. Yet acknowledging that 
there is always room for improvement does not make me
discontent. I am however not content many of the external forces such as my 
government and the corporate PR, etc.. I believe that
some of the greatest Americans that ever lived were those small family farmers 
where several g

Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]

[Chris Bennett]

http://www.biofuelsystems.com/products.htm
Biodiesel equipment, supplies & additives

Write to Paul O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and tell him I said 
so. I haven't tried their anti-oxidant but we use their Wintron X30 
and they're good people.



He's in the UK and so are they, but they're happy to export.


Thats handy, he is just 20 miles down the road from me!

Chris Bennett..
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Re: [Biofuel] factory farms vs. large cities

[1michaelf]

Why not compost and use methane and fertilizer produced?
http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
=
Sure factory farms are different than large cities, but not when it comes to 
waste. If you think the waste from 125,000 animals is a problem, try dealing 
with the waste from 10,000,000 humans in one metro area. No soil type is 
capable of handling that much waste, in any form.

If the consentration of cattle on too few acres is bad, why promote the 
concentration of humans in cities?

Mikem




Please friends, let's realize the problem with factory farms is factory 
farming -- not the discharge of wastes. There is no stretch of the 
imagination that can condone the torture, cruelty and insanity of raising 
"food" in that way. Ever been inside one? Please don't even respond to this 
e-mail unless you have, or at least have seen truthful film footage of how 
animals are raised and treated. I'd like to think that anyone interested in 
biofuels would be absolutely opposed to factory farming. The wastes are the 
least of the problems, in my view.

Bo Lozoff


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Re: [Biofuel] Cleaning Up Factory Farms

[Ken Provost]

on 3/8/05 5:30 AM, Kim & Garth Travis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



> Yes, we turn vegetarian in public.  Our rule, if I don't
> know its name, I am not eating it.
> 


I dunno -- sounds a little hypocritical (tho in general I
like your stuff. I'll think about this longer). Why eat
your friends at all? I have 13 birdies, and I eat chicken
or turkey maybe twice a week -- an I feel Sh**ty about it.
As soon as it's not PUT in front of me, I won't. It's so
wasteful, and each of those birdies would've PREFERRED to
live longer, even if they WERE conscientiously DISPATCHED.

-K

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RE: [Biofuel] Diesel engines

[malcolm maclure]

Yep, just seen a Nissan engine & box to fit a Range Rover go for £200 on
Ebay. Not bad considering Land Rover 300TDi's can go for 2 or 3 times that.

Malcolm



Let me add my 2 cents. Ebay has had a  few of the below mentioned engines
for sale recently. Keep an eye open there.
- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Diesel engines


> If you really want a diesel vehicle and are not satisfied with what's
> available, find a small pickup with a blown engine and replace it with a
> diesel out of a junkyard.  In the eighties, Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu, and
Mazda
> all made diesels for small trucks, and some of them can still be found.
> Maxima had a fine 6 cylinder with a 5 speed manual, if you can fine one -
it
> was a dynamite road car, able to cruise at 70 or above effortlessly...Tony
> Austin

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Re: [Biofuel] Diesel engines

[Busyditch]

Let me add my 2 cents. Ebay has had a  few of the below mentioned engines
for sale recently. Keep an eye open there.
- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Austin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:51 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Diesel engines


> If you really want a diesel vehicle and are not satisfied with what's
> available, find a small pickup with a blown engine and replace it with a
> diesel out of a junkyard.  In the eighties, Toyota, Nissan, Isuzu, and
Mazda
> all made diesels for small trucks, and some of them can still be found.
> Maxima had a fine 6 cylinder with a 5 speed manual, if you can fine one -
it
> was a dynamite road car, able to cruise at 70 or above effortlessly...Tony
> Austin
>
>
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>
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